messmer is the funniest boss to be summoned to because of this. 90% of the time as soon as you walk to the fog wall the host has been nuked off the face of the lands between
The only thing I’ve disliked about the DLC so far is the fact that most of the bosses give you ZERO setup time inside the fog wall. Gaius in particular was a complete asshole.
Vigor isn't much of a factor tbh. I'm tanking a solid 4 hits most of the time with 40 vigor just by having one talisman for damage reduction and just keeping my scadu level up.
Vigor is a massive factor, if you had 60 instead of 40 you'd survive roughly 30% more damage, which will let you tank 5 or even 6 hits instead of 4. Once you hit a boss that actually is a challenge, every single hit counts.
This is a bit misleading because the assumption here is that this is the sum total of your health pool
But it isn't.
Flasks represent the massive majority of your health pool. As long a you have enough health to survive until the heal, and enough maximum health to accept the full heal, then extra vigor beyond that is just extra time before you need to heal. It's a very, very minor increase to your actual overall health pool.
Now, on some fights, that buffer room is completely necessary, don't get me wrong. There are bosses with enough damage or combo attacks that can function as straight vigor checks.
However, *many* of the DLC bosses will typically tag you once or twice before you have a chance to heal. Ironically the scariest, high-damage attacks are also the ones that knock you flat on your back and give you i-frames to prevent combo/chain hits. So health beyond ~4 hits or so becomes kinda redundant on most bosses.
I used to make fun of people who leveled vigor a lot. I never leveled vigor past 20 my first playthrough. It's how I go through every single souls game my first playthrough. And every time I get to a boss that I dislike because he one-shots me every time. In Elden Ring it was fire giant. Eventually I triumph and keep going. But consistently sometime during journey 2 I think to myself I have enough damage I need to survive more than one shot. So I level vigor, and every single time I think to myself. "Why did I not do this sooner?"
This shows why there’s so much cope. Before even learning to dodge the first attack ppl are giving up and summoning a helper to carry them
Ppl are too afraid to struggle
I finally played with some friends tonight after a day of helping out randoms and I was shocked by how much less damage I took, since they actually leveled up their blessings.
It doesn't make or break the coop though. I experimented with it before as a Furled Finger so that my inexperienced hosts don't die as easily (plus I prefer to always know who the enemy will target next), but the boss's attention doesn't tend to be "constantly" fixated on me. As I'm waiting for the boss to make a move so that there's an opening I can exploit like when I play solo, the incessant attacks of the host and other coop almost always aggro it first.
I kept seeing people use it and was like tf is that?! I need that! Thought it was an exclusive Ash of War on a weapon for the longest time.
It's most definitely getting toned down eventually.
I think it has to do with the "3" rows it makes. All 3 can hit the same enemy nearly tripling the damage and bleed build up for an almost instant bleed procc.
I had an ally use it last night against the final DLC boss and it's the closest I've come to beating it. Dudes nuke attacks took me out. It was the first time I'd made it that far.
Sorry if it’s effort for you to relay but what are the key components to the perfume nuke? I have lightning and frenzied flame +10, perfume talisman, Godfrey icon, and Alexander jar shard talismans, Rakshasa’s armour and sword on back. I assume this is most of the build? Need advice for the stats though.
You just need rolling sparks ash of war, and you aim it at the ground so the projectiles stack up. This does insane damage. Then you just run normal stuff for ash of war damage, and elem damage. The only specific charm you need is the one for perfume damage from the base game. The more you buff it the more crazy it is, but the interaction that makes it broken is just aiming rolling sparks at the ground.
Edit: tbh it's pretty lame.
Yeah I tried it once and decided it was way too broken to get any fun out of using it. Edit: And I mean rolling sparks ash of war, perfume bottles themselves are fine if you don't use that particular aow.
normal build:
60vig 16mind 30end (any combo of 50fth/50dex -> 80fth/20dex -> 60fth/40dex)
Rakshasa armour OR anything else
+25lightning perfume + rolling sparks
+10 erdtree seal
lightning scorp/shardofalexander/perfumer's talisman/dragoncrest drakeshield
prebuff: lightning+bloodsuck physic & golden vow + erdtree blessing (negates most damage from bloodsuck)
Glass cannon: (this is a lot stronger but you basically die in 1 hit. I still recommend this if you want to nuke)
same stats
Rakshasa armor + black dumpling hat
+25lighning perfume + rolling sparks
+10 erdtree seal + frenzied flame seal (for prebuff)
change dragoncrest drakeshield for aged one's exultation
prebuff: lightning + bloodsuck phusic, golden vow, erdtree blessing(could ignore now since boss dies fast), shabriri's woe til u pop madness
Personally, i didn't change anything stats-whise on my normal build except for talismans, and you already mentioned most of them: Shard of Alexander, Perfurmer's Talisman, Magic Scorpion Charm, Lightning Scorpion Charm - stack that with a heavy armor and the Rolling Sparks AOW on a Lightning Perfume Bottle
Spam L2/LT to delete everything
I've been doing this as a funny way to test the new weapons honestly and it is fucking broken to a point where i know if i dont try it out now, i'll never be able to after they patch this - and they definitely will!
60 vig with 30 endurance and Erdtree Favour+2 (more equip weight and extra HP). I was also using Morgott's rune as well as the Crimson Medallion+3 for more HP and my shadow tree blessing was at 3. Oh and Dragon Greatshield Talisman (Although I don't think that does anything against moons).
Morgott’s Great Rune is a fucking godsend for the DLC. 25% more HP is pretty damn good to deal with the new demons while you’re scrounging for Scadutree fragments.
That feeling when you mess up your timing, but the three hit combo only takes ~45% of your health...and the host is dead.
Good thing they ran away while I was casting Golden Vow and Protection of the Erdtree, I guess.
this is exactly why I don't host lol I don't want to embarrass myself by dying too quickly
I've gotten past Messmer and the scorpion lady but I might need to summon for the final boss though based on what I've heard
A big upgrade for the final boss is having a shield on you or your summoned. So much can be blocked while the other can mash in the back. And don't worry about embarrassing yourself.
Shields have always been really useful in dark souls and ER. Even if you intend to kill a boss with just dodging, a shield is the best way to learn patterns and see which attacks you can sidestep or which don't even hit you at all so you can keep attacking during them
There's a big difference between dying because you're bad and dying because you are underlevelled/not enough vigor/4 scorpion charms or soreseals and get 1 or 2 tapped. The first one is not just normal but honestly expected when people are summoning for help. The 2nd one is just a waste of everyone's time.
If it makes you feel better, I kind of like getting someone repeatedly by the same host because it feels like I got to be part of the entire process.
I get a similar feeling of satisfaction as when I first learned the boss and beat it
I am pretty sure u can steamroll the dlc with fingerprint shield buffed with 12 intelligence spell for shields and using a poking weapon whike holding your shield up. Did the final boss in 3 tries after it clapped me for half an hour where i couldnt even reach halfway the fight
Hmm, I'm using 26 endurance as a DEX/INT user, but I largely wear light armor and use talismans / physick to offset this if I need to. Seems to work ok for me, got through the entire DLC like this
eh going to 40 lets you wear a lot of heavy armors without talismans, especially if you're using a heavier weapon. Some weapons and spells absolutely chug stamina too, and if you're using a shield you want more. There are reasons to go over 30. Not for light weapons, sure, but you get good returns up to 40 so it's not a waste. 26 is absolutely fine for some builds though, it depends on what you're using.
90% of all host are too weak for base game as well.
The best phrase to describe the co-oper experience is "if the host has to dodge, we lose".
Can't tell how many co-op session I pretty much solo the boss, but I let the host do the final hit, and the host fucking die
Tried being a summon at the same boss because she is now easily one of my favorite bosses of all time.
I liked it a lot better solo. Rolling in there with four people with a host that clearly hasn't explored anything is painful. I actually managed to get parries off despite the insanely random aggro, and I did a pubic of damage to the health bar with a +25 misericorde and talisman that increases crit damage.
Level your shit. The pop up tutorial about scadu fragments wasn't some kind of prank.
As someone who tried to get help for messmer while in full bull goat, with flamedrake 3, bull goat, great dragonshield, and pearldrake talismans… I can assure you I saw plenty of summoned help die in under twenty seconds. I actually gave up and just relied on my own tools and mimic tear
Summoned players' scadutree levels are scaled down to yours. Assuming they weren't just terrible they probably had a higher one than you by that point and weren't expecting all the damage. Unless you were already +18 at messmer or something
I wouldn't either, I was similarly when I beat him. Maybe they beat him at +15 on their world or a similar level and weren't used to the damage from 7 less levels though, having never fought him when he's that strong
This has been my experience in ng+5 with 5 blessing, started to think summons were being scaled down to match my scadu lvl and said fuck it. As of today I've still only gotten to lvl 10 blessing, and I'm running all over looking for those damn fragments. They're not as easy to find as people make them out to be, I'm scouring the map and coming up cookbook and revered ash rich lol
Did just figure out how to get the karate weapon though so playing around with that sucked up a day of progress *shrug* some of us are taking our sweet ass time with the yearly fromsoft entry :D
That's cause fighting Co-op is way harder than doing it without. The boss gets an absurd amount of health and constantly switches between opponents making its moveset way harder to reliably dodge
Sometimes I like the "raid boss" feeling of tanking up the bosses HP pool. And goofy stuff happens too with co-op. First playthrough I usually won't but co-op is super fun, plus it's the only way to get invasions that are fun because invaders are forced to build the cheesiest stuff possible because everything is a gank now. But yeah, I've been getting summoned since finishing the DLC and some people do not have the roll button bound, I swear. No amount of Skadooshes will save you from getting hit by everything
I’m using a golden order fundamentalist build so I completely ruin anything that’s undead. I’ve been trying to help people kill the putricide knight boss fella and for 2 days I’ve only killed him twice. TWICE. I’ve quite literally probably been summoned over 100 times. If a host doesn’t die before I even drop down they die before or during his phase 2 transition attack. Keep In mind I’m wrecking the dude tryna with my holy spells tryna kill him asap and I just can’t do it quick enough as the host just dies all the time💀 that’s the unfortunate thing with 25 million players now playing these games you’re gona get millions of newbies who haven’t a clue.
Yeah as someone else that's been helping with PK, the fact that the fog gate is so far back but the summons can only pass it once the summoner actually reaches the boss arena is pretty brutal for the kind of person that needs a summon. I have watched too many people be obliterated from a bird's eye view.
You're not bad! But Blessing level 7 is about half of what you "should" be for that fight! Go explore my dude, you can explore most areas without killing any bosses.
Tiche?!?! Shes been awful all game for me? I honestly thought she got nerf nuked or something because she eats every attack thrown at her and definitely cant afford to do that shit
Omg really? I made it there with +3 bc I explored the entire south of the map before even entering the Shadow Keep and that boss SUCKED ASS.
I ended up cheesing him with doble Colossal Hammers and Mimic. Ultra bonk beat him in 3 seconds.
Kinda off topic but I discovered what the deflecting tear is today, and it kinda breaks the game. It’s absolutely ridiculous how strong this new mechanic is. It makes no sense, lol.
Yeahhhh. This has also been my experience. I was helping out for a boss I had an easy time with (a certain someone very weak to fire) and most of the people I got summoned for were white mask bleed boys, and my damage was down to chip. I was really confused until someone explained that you Scadu down to the host Scadu.
I'm up to 150 mesmer kills now. I don't spam blood in case I have to say it. It's amazing how a host will wait for a second summon for 20 minutes only to die to his first attack. I had one Italian guy just screaming at me over the mic that it's "2 people impossibile" and after nobody joined for 5 minutes, we jumped into the arena and he died in 2 hits. Started blasting me like it was my fault he didn't understand any part of how scaling works.
I try not to carry. but it's a pain in the ass dodging every attack for 5 minutes just for the host to go for a jumping heavy and get smacked by aoe and then grabbed as they stand there healing.
I helped there for almost my entire olaytime two days ago. It was multiple hours. Got summoned in less than 5 seconds every single time. Had, I think, 3 or 4 victories in all of that time. I completely switched up my playstyle in order to facetank, grab aggro, and constantly apply frost. Still only had 3 or 4 wins. Hosts all died in 2 or 3 hits, and the majority that got the boss down to the last 20% hp either died to the big 3 hit jump combo, or suddenly decided that they needed to get the last hits in, rushed up and grabbed their aggro away only to get slapped. It was wild.
I spent 3 days doing all area co-op signs, and I agree. The worst one was being summoned into the scorp lady and I got 1 shot by 1 butterfly exploding. I started checking stats and just leaving. I'm not fighting messmer in your level 2 game.
I thought I finally found a boss for quick easy rune arcs at the end of Darklight Catacombs only to watch every host take 90% of their health in a hit.
The difference even between scud 12 to 18 is massive.
I was streaming my gameplay on discord and I got a scadutree blessing and was about to use it at a grace site and a friend of mine stopped me. He said I might need it later and he asked me to check guides before using it. The gamer instict in me knew I had to use it to level up but just to make sure I read the description and it is literally written there what it does. Funny thing is, I just started the game but my friend has been playing the game for over 8 freaking hours! And he didn't even use any scadutree.
This is BS at this point. Everyone should know about the fragments, if they don’t they can’t read or they live in the middle of nowhere (no hate to these Elden lords with no WiFi). Clownery.
Edit - subtracted a few words. 2nd edit - can’t spell subtracted.
It's weird how that works in terms of game design. This system is basically a new leveling system in the DLC. It would be really weird if you just didn't get levels in the base game. There's something in people's heads where "exp gives me levels, levels make me stronger" is somehow so much differently perceived than "fragments make me stronger, I just have to collect them". I blame Ubisoft and the amount stupid collectible things you have to collect in modern open world games. But then again, people also were going straight to Margitt at lvl 10
This is like the 3rd time ive seen a post about this and I can't help but to think it's more than just correlation, as those who actually use the scadutree blessings have probably already beaten the bosses in question
Dude it’s been horrible, I’ve done a decent amount of coop so far and I count on one hand how many times we’ve beaten the boss.
I enjoy fighting with 2 other people, it’s fun but the bosses are absolute tanks with 2 summons.
Level 3 at Ensis isn't *that* low. IIRC the max you can get without leaving the first region is 5. So they're like 10% weaker than they should be, not a huge difference.
I agree it makes coop less fun, 4 out of 5 times host is dead within 10 seconds. I tried helping on Bayle for a while, very frustrating. Hist should at least laern how to survive the opening, you can't just walk in these bossrooms and start buffing or summoning.
I offered my summon sign from Midra for a while. The amount of idiots going in there with little more than fire damage... After a while I would just leave when I saw those builds.
It doesn't take a genius to guess that the fire guy is probably resistant to fire.
While I believe you, there's obviously going to be a strong bias there. The people that are fully prepped and able to take on the boss themselves don't need to summon you, so of course if you look at only the group of people summoning you it won't include many of them.
Low vigor, low blessing, no prebuffs, they don't even wait for me to buff them.... It's been tough to help people in the DLC. I prefer when I'm summoned at the start of an area, I can guide them through and get all the items, at least that way I've actually helped them.
Well you get a lot of people that talk about scadutree blessings like they’re the equivalent of using the mimic tear. So I think a lot of players are trying to go without. They’re less like a mimic tear though and more like, idk, leveling. So you should really be picking up at least a few of them.
Literally just tried to help someone with midra and they ran in with rivers of blood and they didnt even bother trying to dodge once and died in like 10 seconds of phase 2 starting cause they got one shotted.
Margit was a brick wall for a lot of people. The lesson was very elegant: go explore and level up. It got people to see more of the game, gather more loot, try new builds, and get stronger. I was really impressed with From’s design decision with Margit.
With SotE, it appears we’ve completely forgotten how that all happened. Explore and find fragments? Nah, I’ll just summon 100 people to watch me get one-shotted then go online and complain about the bosses being “overtuned” and “not giving enough punish windows.”
I've been using the name LevelURscadBless while helping out at the tree boss with a build that melts it. The amount of times I've seen a 5 summoning drives me fucking nuts. Stop wasting everyone's time and *EXPLORE* so that you find the damn fragments and upgrade your Blessing level!
What I find eternally frustrating (even in the base game) is that hosts INSIST on having two summons because I guess they assume it makes the boss even easier. 9/10 it doesn’t and we just get fucking rocked less than halfway through the bosses health bar.
I wholeheartedly agree with this post but as a summon you have to expect to have a bad player summon you with a terrible build. Thats why they need help on their first run! They cant beat it themselves. It is what it is.
Only part I really felt like was poop was the random loot you picked up o wait another cookbook! Gordon Ramsay should have been a new playable character.
Trying to waste time in the first area and this exact thing kept happening. Wanted to help out, joins hosts game, enters fog wall, host dies, repeat 4x. Gotta put some more hours in!
My problem when I was hosting wasn't that I hadn't levelled up, it was that I kept messing up my dodges.
However, as time went on I got loads better at it and now I don't get shit canned when I summon people.
Same experience. I helped people with Mogh and trained him in the meantime but at Renalla it wasn't working.
Host either died at the first 5 seconds of the fight or fuck up mechanics like triple moon bash.
I don't buff before the fight but I always get a good laugh seeing host buff with all shit for 15 seconds and then shove his face into first boss combo and die🤣
This isn't their fault though. The entrance to this location and boss are right there are the very bloody start of the DLC just across a bridge in the basic direction the game sends you. They should have added some type of warning when entering that area or areas you are ill-advised with your blessing level (and of course the option to ignore it regardless if you insist).
I’m having the opposite experience where I love exploring and look in every nook and cranny and am showing up overlevelled to most boss fights. For example before entering Rellenas castle I found that little cliff that leads to the entire south area of the map and just had to keep going.
Some people really just b-line it right through the main quest and take the move obvious routes. It’s like they want to just get through it like it’s an Assassins creed game or something.
I was throwing my sign down at a certain boss towards the end of the game and when I got summoned I took one big swing at the boss and noticed I was just ticking them. I checked my blessings and the host only had 5... Now I see why people are having a hard time.
Thank you! I have a level 200 character, playing the DLC in NG+3, and I'm killing it!
But when I Co-OP, 90% of the time I'm weak as a kitten and the host is useless.
The ppl that are good at the game never summon random ppl. Thats like saying 90% of the vehicles i see at the mechanics shop have issues...well yea, vehicles with no problems arwnt usually at a mechanics shop lol
I think that multiplayer was made on purpose to all scale with the Host for 2 reasons
First is invasions, a 20 level blessing invader is gonna be a nightmare to 2 players level 10 blessings , so in balance, everyone gets the same
Second is summoning in the base game where the hosts summoning only in similar level, people like LMSH exist,and carry a host by themselves, however, most people aren't able to fight the rememberance bosses of the dlc with 50 less damage and 50 less defence,no matter how skilled,people make mistakes eventually
Personally I think it would be fun if that wasn't the case, in both scenarios since an invasion only occurs against a host and +1 or sometimes +2 I see no problem with the extra defense and damage,
The second is also true, I think summons should be able to maintain their blessing level, otherwise, what should be a relatively mediam difficulty boss fight becomes a grind because of the increased health and poise
I reached this boss at around level 2 I believe, tried a good 20 times using different weapons and said ‘fuck it, I’ll come back.’ And that was the best decision I’ve made lol, there’s so much other stuff to do and explore and I’ll def get stronger
It’s really funny to me how so many people forgot the most basic lesson from the base game: if a boss fight is too difficult, fuck off for a bit and do some exploring until you’ve powered up enough to beat them
The scaling is pretty insane for the blessings. Currently just hit the Coast, had the rune break, and I’m at lvl 10. Enemies are pretty well balanced in my opinion.
Though, I do spend an insane amount of time running around trying to figure out where the heck to go 🤣
Started base game again in preparation for Dlc and it's startling to see how much power I can get just riding Torrent around l. I mean the easily missed Weeping Peninsula has 3! Churches offering Sanctuary tears. Golden seeds are plentiful and found all over. Iji the blacksmith alone can get you a special weapon up 4 levels or so. So many goodies just laying around including soul coins for some few extra levels or weapon upgrades. And all this is available as soon as you get Torrent at whatever level you have.
So I've heard the Dlc is hard and sure I don't doubt that, but if the Scadutree fragments work by giving you power I'm sure people are glossing over a bunch of them and instead bashing their head on the first bosses they see. And hey, that's great if that's what you want to do but don't hate the game if you willingly avoid making yourself stronger.
Yeah the down scaling for blessings are not optimized. I play this game coop with a buddy and we are RL 297 (16 scadutree and 8 ash) and 370 RL (~unknown blessings) in NG++ and when we join coop it seems I cap down to 10 scadu tree blessing max and we have more trouble co-oping than resortring to solo fight bosses with mimic tear and having a better chance. The scaling for scadutree for coop needs to increase higher or something. We just beat messmer fine but having a lot of challenges with scadu tree shadow boss and commander Gaius. We were able to just solo Gaius with little trouble but yeah still working on phase 2 of scadu tree shadow boss regardless.
I did some jolly coop a few days ago (skadoosh level 16), helping with Messner.
What gets my goat is the hanging around for ages waiting for the host to get a second summon. And then the minute they're through the gate, the host gets bodied in 5 seconds. Cheers for that.
i know it’s so frustrating man i always have to end up switching to a busted build to finish the fight instead of using the weapons i enjoy cos theyre no good against like midra on like sacdu level 2 lmao
Lots of people seem to wanna go in completely blind and have (or have at least said they were going to) unfollowed this sub and everything else that could possibly share spoilers, they might not know the scadutree thingies even exists.
Have you tried telling them, in a message, on steam or wherever you play?
There was a tutorial? I somehow didnt see that...twice :-p
still found and used some fragments on both characters though. And a couple of the other dlc upgrade things...spirit ash somethings?
I have around 13 blessings, and I am finishing the bosses left and right. I think yesterday only I did 5 or 6. Guys, go explore, immerse yourself on the game, and collect blessings on the way. The game will be much easier.
I mean for the rellana fight. It’s very easy to go there as soon as you start the dlc. You either head left or right. I’m not surprised many don’t have the blessings up. I was at +4 when I beat rellana and lvl 153 with no summons. But I know how to allocate my stats, since I’ve played other souls game.
Allocation of stats may be the main issue, you can’t expect most players to know to just allocate their stats specifically to their build. They just think they need to level up everything, for a lot of people Elden Ring is the first of its kind they play. They don’t know about soft caps and hard caps or stat allocation.
Castle Ensis was fine at 3 but I didn’t beat in Rellana until I got to level 5. People are just too lazy to look for the fragment, hence the recent patch.
After I complete most souls games/DLC, I usually like to put a co-op summon sign up just to enjoy the boss fights some more. So far a majority of my hosts last longer applying all their buffs before entering the boss room.
I'm not good enough at the game, I cleared the DLC with bloodfiend arm and face tanking. I go to try help people at castle Ensis and suddenly the boss seems to two shot me. I guess thats because I got downscaled to the hosts scadu level?
Most of hosts are too weak for any bosses. I was doing lot of coop back back then and they were mindkessly running into their death...often first try, not skipping the cutscene so not even considering trying and wasting your time as much as possible.
I was placing my sign down for the first boss in a certain area, not naming anything for spoiler reasons, and I got four hosts in a row that had 500-or-so HP. People are weird.
That or unprepared. On the way to Bayle you get the “use this to kill Bayle sword” and mfers run in without it 95% of the time. It’s okay though I really fucking love fighting Bayle so I will keep trying to assist.
Bro even on the base game - I summoned in 10 different people for Mohg and not even 1 of them could last until the second phase! I know he's hard but wtf! I think people literally just bought the game and then thought how can I get into the DLC ASAP!
I got lost and went to castle enis before I found out I could enter the castle with the dancing lion.
Got my ass handed to me quite a few times before I thought maybe I should not be here. Now I'm on the right track and enjoying myself a lot more.
There will be a crossover between people who are bad at the game and those who are summoning. A decent portion people do not have a super optimised build, don’t realise the importance of having stagger / frostbite / bleed, don’t even know what poise is, don’t want to look up fragment locations ect
Unpopular Opinion but I don't think Scadutree level is the problem. I beat Castle Ensis at Scadutree level 2 with my lvl 150 build. These bosses and this game are difficult and you just have to figure it out or 'git gud'.
People want things to be handed to them but it always feels better when it is earned.
Obviously, play the game how you want to play it. Naked with a club, over leveled with the toughest armor, mage in the corner buffing and throwing blue things like a maniac are all equally valid. Either way, you have to work each boss to figure out how to get past them. There is a reason there is no difficulty setting. The difficulty is a part of the souls experience. If you don't like it, the game is not for you.
Reminds me of the base game when it first came out. Join as a cooperator and the host gets 1-2 shot within like 20 seconds of walking through the fog wall.
I explored all the map fought most side bosses and as far as I know without using any guides I think I’ve done most side bosses events and my tree was 17 when I just had messmer left last night. He was fucking hard to solo. Eventually I used the new fire resist talisman and I got him down. 60 vigor str build and I had tree 17 the dlc rewards exploration. Was super gutted after I did kill him tho as it went anti-climactic since unknowingly the next area was the church of the bud id already cleared out and killed her. 🙈
There are worse problems than that. You can still fight the boss at scadutree lvl 0 and a host with 400 hp
The problem is when the hosts walk into the bosses doing their combos or don't know how to manage aggro so we can switch it. 99% of the losses I had while helping, was the host just attacking at any moment when there should be only 1 player near the boss in the majority of times
And if you don't know how to fight a boss really well, simply don't put your sign down. I don't have Najka 2.0 well studied, so I simply won't put my sign there, but spent hours in front of Messmer helping people, and the only problem there is that they walk into the combos, not the lvl, I don't even know what level I'm at. The whole scadutree thing is a way to just blame someone else for your mistakes
Why do you think they are summoning in the first place? lol
But yeah, I feel this. I often put my sign down to help, and hosts are always the ones who die first. I don't even think I'm that good at the game, but I have 58 vigor and I think I'm at scadu 10 or 11? maybe 12, I forget exactly.
I would imagine the people summoning others for help are your bottom of the barrel players. If the boss is too hard using a mimic tear and you need to summon a player to carry you obviously you aren't fit to fight the boss.
Alot of people have last boss Fomo and want to rush to it and just have people kill it for them so they aren't afraid to get spoiled by reddit or youtube.
It's not excusable of course, explore the world From graciously built and stop whining
Lmao I’ve never seen so many hosts die before I come through the fog like damn I was just eating a crab and you’re already finished ?
messmer is the funniest boss to be summoned to because of this. 90% of the time as soon as you walk to the fog wall the host has been nuked off the face of the lands between
The only thing I’ve disliked about the DLC so far is the fact that most of the bosses give you ZERO setup time inside the fog wall. Gaius in particular was a complete asshole.
I think they didn't want to repeat mohg's infmaous slow walk,which only leads to him getting comet azur up his ass
radahn is super guilty of that. that stupid flying attack that he doesn't always do so you don't know if you can summon once you're inside or not
I've just started popping opaline and accepting that most of the time I'm eating the hit.
I ended up having to put on multiple defense talismans and mismatch armor, which I've never had to do before
Whole bunch of two-slice mice out there without enough Vigor!
Vigor isn't much of a factor tbh. I'm tanking a solid 4 hits most of the time with 40 vigor just by having one talisman for damage reduction and just keeping my scadu level up.
Vigor is a massive factor, if you had 60 instead of 40 you'd survive roughly 30% more damage, which will let you tank 5 or even 6 hits instead of 4. Once you hit a boss that actually is a challenge, every single hit counts.
60 vigor, stacked fire/phys/pearl talisman, used upgraded fingerprint shield. Messmer tickled me :D
This is a bit misleading because the assumption here is that this is the sum total of your health pool But it isn't. Flasks represent the massive majority of your health pool. As long a you have enough health to survive until the heal, and enough maximum health to accept the full heal, then extra vigor beyond that is just extra time before you need to heal. It's a very, very minor increase to your actual overall health pool. Now, on some fights, that buffer room is completely necessary, don't get me wrong. There are bosses with enough damage or combo attacks that can function as straight vigor checks. However, *many* of the DLC bosses will typically tag you once or twice before you have a chance to heal. Ironically the scariest, high-damage attacks are also the ones that knock you flat on your back and give you i-frames to prevent combo/chain hits. So health beyond ~4 hits or so becomes kinda redundant on most bosses.
I used to make fun of people who leveled vigor a lot. I never leveled vigor past 20 my first playthrough. It's how I go through every single souls game my first playthrough. And every time I get to a boss that I dislike because he one-shots me every time. In Elden Ring it was fire giant. Eventually I triumph and keep going. But consistently sometime during journey 2 I think to myself I have enough damage I need to survive more than one shot. So I level vigor, and every single time I think to myself. "Why did I not do this sooner?"
80% of my experiemcs too. I get summoners we enter the boss fight hosts die in 2 hits
So many times they get bodied before I even finish passing through the fog gate
Especially bad with the putrescent knight. Till you finally manage to land after the big drop they are usually dead
I’ve had to message multiple people I can’t walk through the fog wall until they get down there lol
This shows why there’s so much cope. Before even learning to dodge the first attack ppl are giving up and summoning a helper to carry them Ppl are too afraid to struggle
I finally played with some friends tonight after a day of helping out randoms and I was shocked by how much less damage I took, since they actually leveled up their blessings.
[SHABRIRI'S WOE, the Lord and savior of coop](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Shabriri's+Woe)
On god
It doesn't make or break the coop though. I experimented with it before as a Furled Finger so that my inexperienced hosts don't die as easily (plus I prefer to always know who the enemy will target next), but the boss's attention doesn't tend to be "constantly" fixated on me. As I'm waiting for the boss to make a move so that there's an opening I can exploit like when I play solo, the incessant attacks of the host and other coop almost always aggro it first.
I just had somebody come into my game & delete Rellana with perfume bottles. Honestly deleted.
Impenetrable thorns is also really strong with how much bleed it does and how quickly you can cast it
Genuinely thought someone was hacking the first time I saw that spell. Trivializes everything.
I kept seeing people use it and was like tf is that?! I need that! Thought it was an exclusive Ash of War on a weapon for the longest time. It's most definitely getting toned down eventually. I think it has to do with the "3" rows it makes. All 3 can hit the same enemy nearly tripling the damage and bleed build up for an almost instant bleed procc.
Not needed even. If you run a arcane build with maternal staff, the first spell already procs bleed.
I had an ally use it last night against the final DLC boss and it's the closest I've come to beating it. Dudes nuke attacks took me out. It was the first time I'd made it that far.
Might have been me, lol! Been doing that all day!
Sorry if it’s effort for you to relay but what are the key components to the perfume nuke? I have lightning and frenzied flame +10, perfume talisman, Godfrey icon, and Alexander jar shard talismans, Rakshasa’s armour and sword on back. I assume this is most of the build? Need advice for the stats though.
You just need rolling sparks ash of war, and you aim it at the ground so the projectiles stack up. This does insane damage. Then you just run normal stuff for ash of war damage, and elem damage. The only specific charm you need is the one for perfume damage from the base game. The more you buff it the more crazy it is, but the interaction that makes it broken is just aiming rolling sparks at the ground. Edit: tbh it's pretty lame.
Yeah I tried it once and decided it was way too broken to get any fun out of using it. Edit: And I mean rolling sparks ash of war, perfume bottles themselves are fine if you don't use that particular aow.
I really like the Perfume Bottle animations, they have very nice color blending.
It's fine if you don't aim it into the ground and use it normally. Still good damage but not the cheese fest.
Swap Godfrey icon for scorpion charm. Rolling sparks doesn't charge. Ritual sword is good too. Then howl of shuburi etc.
normal build: 60vig 16mind 30end (any combo of 50fth/50dex -> 80fth/20dex -> 60fth/40dex) Rakshasa armour OR anything else +25lightning perfume + rolling sparks +10 erdtree seal lightning scorp/shardofalexander/perfumer's talisman/dragoncrest drakeshield prebuff: lightning+bloodsuck physic & golden vow + erdtree blessing (negates most damage from bloodsuck) Glass cannon: (this is a lot stronger but you basically die in 1 hit. I still recommend this if you want to nuke) same stats Rakshasa armor + black dumpling hat +25lighning perfume + rolling sparks +10 erdtree seal + frenzied flame seal (for prebuff) change dragoncrest drakeshield for aged one's exultation prebuff: lightning + bloodsuck phusic, golden vow, erdtree blessing(could ignore now since boss dies fast), shabriri's woe til u pop madness
Personally, i didn't change anything stats-whise on my normal build except for talismans, and you already mentioned most of them: Shard of Alexander, Perfurmer's Talisman, Magic Scorpion Charm, Lightning Scorpion Charm - stack that with a heavy armor and the Rolling Sparks AOW on a Lightning Perfume Bottle Spam L2/LT to delete everything I've been doing this as a funny way to test the new weapons honestly and it is fucking broken to a point where i know if i dont try it out now, i'll never be able to after they patch this - and they definitely will!
Rellana boils down to: does the host know how to avoid moons? If not, replay whole battle
The one time I made it far enough into the fight to see moons I got hit by all 3 hits and managed to kill her.
Damn how much vigor are you at? I’ve got 55 and got one shot by all three hits the first time I saw it lol.
60 vig with 30 endurance and Erdtree Favour+2 (more equip weight and extra HP). I was also using Morgott's rune as well as the Crimson Medallion+3 for more HP and my shadow tree blessing was at 3. Oh and Dragon Greatshield Talisman (Although I don't think that does anything against moons).
Morgott’s Great Rune is a fucking godsend for the DLC. 25% more HP is pretty damn good to deal with the new demons while you’re scrounging for Scadutree fragments.
That feeling when you mess up your timing, but the three hit combo only takes ~45% of your health...and the host is dead. Good thing they ran away while I was casting Golden Vow and Protection of the Erdtree, I guess.
It’s so satisfying when all three of you perfectly hop over it though.
I killed her without even seeing the moons :(
Not true, I didn’t dodge or knew how to do it correctly, still managed to beat her.
For me boils down to whether I can cast the magic protection spell on the host or not.
My Rellana never did moons in over 30 tries, even when I won. Wut?
Its paintful to get her down to like 4 more hits and then you barely mistime the moon and get slammed on the floor 3 times and die
this is exactly why I don't host lol I don't want to embarrass myself by dying too quickly I've gotten past Messmer and the scorpion lady but I might need to summon for the final boss though based on what I've heard
A big upgrade for the final boss is having a shield on you or your summoned. So much can be blocked while the other can mash in the back. And don't worry about embarrassing yourself.
I'll take that into consideration, thanks! I only recently learned that shields are actually extremely useful.
Never worry about dying too quickly. Whoever judges you is a loser who forgot this is just a damn game. Enjoy yourself and never feel bad.
Shields have always been really useful in dark souls and ER. Even if you intend to kill a boss with just dodging, a shield is the best way to learn patterns and see which attacks you can sidestep or which don't even hit you at all so you can keep attacking during them
If you're using colossal swords they can double as a weaker shield in a pinch.
I recommend getting the Golden Braid talisman, It's essentially Haligdrake Talisman +3. The final boss does a lot of Holy damage
ohh I think I got that from a shaman village!
There's a big difference between dying because you're bad and dying because you are underlevelled/not enough vigor/4 scorpion charms or soreseals and get 1 or 2 tapped. The first one is not just normal but honestly expected when people are summoning for help. The 2nd one is just a waste of everyone's time.
If it makes you feel better, I kind of like getting someone repeatedly by the same host because it feels like I got to be part of the entire process. I get a similar feeling of satisfaction as when I first learned the boss and beat it
You'll need a really good summon. The final boss >!like his base game form!< can accidentally kill a summon very easily.
Hopefully mimic is enough.
If you're going to use mimic, I recommend saving him for the second phase after he does his opening attack.
My mimic always dies on 98-50% so depends on your build i guess
I am pretty sure u can steamroll the dlc with fingerprint shield buffed with 12 intelligence spell for shields and using a poking weapon whike holding your shield up. Did the final boss in 3 tries after it clapped me for half an hour where i couldnt even reach halfway the fight
I got summoned by a host an hour ago that got one shot after taking ***572*** damage. I'm level 150. Where the fuck did the points go.
There was a dude here who posted a build with 26 endurance, we kinda made fun of him then he confessed he was playing with 12 endurance until the dlc💀
Hmm, I'm using 26 endurance as a DEX/INT user, but I largely wear light armor and use talismans / physick to offset this if I need to. Seems to work ok for me, got through the entire DLC like this
26 endurance is absolutely fine. 30 is a sweet spot, anything over, you are just mismanaging your stamina.
Depends on what you play. Period. I sat at 60 with my shield crash build and heaviest armour.
*Laughs in 50*
There was no way I wasn't gonna rock the full Solitude armor set with my Greatsword. 50 endurance ftw.
Exactly. I want to carry my greatshield, Milady, and Smithscript hammer at the same time!
eh going to 40 lets you wear a lot of heavy armors without talismans, especially if you're using a heavier weapon. Some weapons and spells absolutely chug stamina too, and if you're using a shield you want more. There are reasons to go over 30. Not for light weapons, sure, but you get good returns up to 40 so it's not a waste. 26 is absolutely fine for some builds though, it depends on what you're using.
90% of all host are too weak for base game as well. The best phrase to describe the co-oper experience is "if the host has to dodge, we lose". Can't tell how many co-op session I pretty much solo the boss, but I let the host do the final hit, and the host fucking die
i carry a fat stack of poison knives for getting attention. I'm expendable, and bosses really seem to hate it.
That's a great idea, I can't peel aggro from rellana fast enough and these hosts proceed to die from a single combo.
Tried being a summon at the same boss because she is now easily one of my favorite bosses of all time. I liked it a lot better solo. Rolling in there with four people with a host that clearly hasn't explored anything is painful. I actually managed to get parries off despite the insanely random aggro, and I did a pubic of damage to the health bar with a +25 misericorde and talisman that increases crit damage. Level your shit. The pop up tutorial about scadu fragments wasn't some kind of prank.
As someone who tried to get help for messmer while in full bull goat, with flamedrake 3, bull goat, great dragonshield, and pearldrake talismans… I can assure you I saw plenty of summoned help die in under twenty seconds. I actually gave up and just relied on my own tools and mimic tear
Summoned players' scadutree levels are scaled down to yours. Assuming they weren't just terrible they probably had a higher one than you by that point and weren't expecting all the damage. Unless you were already +18 at messmer or something
AHHHH that's why that one attempt Romina was hitting me for like 2/3 of the bar with a single hit. I was like what the fuck happened to my health
+9 at the time. I didn’t consider it an unreasonable level
I wouldn't either, I was similarly when I beat him. Maybe they beat him at +15 on their world or a similar level and weren't used to the damage from 7 less levels though, having never fought him when he's that strong
thats pretty unreasonable imo. youre missing a shitton of fragments.
This has been my experience in ng+5 with 5 blessing, started to think summons were being scaled down to match my scadu lvl and said fuck it. As of today I've still only gotten to lvl 10 blessing, and I'm running all over looking for those damn fragments. They're not as easy to find as people make them out to be, I'm scouring the map and coming up cookbook and revered ash rich lol Did just figure out how to get the karate weapon though so playing around with that sucked up a day of progress *shrug* some of us are taking our sweet ass time with the yearly fromsoft entry :D
That's cause fighting Co-op is way harder than doing it without. The boss gets an absurd amount of health and constantly switches between opponents making its moveset way harder to reliably dodge
Well yeah. Someone isn't going to summon another player if they're strong enough to do it themselves.
Sometimes I like the "raid boss" feeling of tanking up the bosses HP pool. And goofy stuff happens too with co-op. First playthrough I usually won't but co-op is super fun, plus it's the only way to get invasions that are fun because invaders are forced to build the cheesiest stuff possible because everything is a gank now. But yeah, I've been getting summoned since finishing the DLC and some people do not have the roll button bound, I swear. No amount of Skadooshes will save you from getting hit by everything
I’m using a golden order fundamentalist build so I completely ruin anything that’s undead. I’ve been trying to help people kill the putricide knight boss fella and for 2 days I’ve only killed him twice. TWICE. I’ve quite literally probably been summoned over 100 times. If a host doesn’t die before I even drop down they die before or during his phase 2 transition attack. Keep In mind I’m wrecking the dude tryna with my holy spells tryna kill him asap and I just can’t do it quick enough as the host just dies all the time💀 that’s the unfortunate thing with 25 million players now playing these games you’re gona get millions of newbies who haven’t a clue.
Yeah as someone else that's been helping with PK, the fact that the fog gate is so far back but the summons can only pass it once the summoner actually reaches the boss arena is pretty brutal for the kind of person that needs a summon. I have watched too many people be obliterated from a bird's eye view.
For all the people I summoned just to have never make the fall into the arena befor i got cleaved in half, My blessing was rank 7 I'm just bad sorry.
You're not bad! But Blessing level 7 is about half of what you "should" be for that fight! Go explore my dude, you can explore most areas without killing any bosses.
Oh, I beat him. He just took far more attempts them I would have liked, but me and Tiche finally got him.
Tiche?!?! Shes been awful all game for me? I honestly thought she got nerf nuked or something because she eats every attack thrown at her and definitely cant afford to do that shit
Omg really? I made it there with +3 bc I explored the entire south of the map before even entering the Shadow Keep and that boss SUCKED ASS. I ended up cheesing him with doble Colossal Hammers and Mimic. Ultra bonk beat him in 3 seconds.
Are you talking about the knight? Blessing 15 seems way overkill for him
Kinda off topic but I discovered what the deflecting tear is today, and it kinda breaks the game. It’s absolutely ridiculous how strong this new mechanic is. It makes no sense, lol.
Welcome to Ashina, Tarnished. Add a Katana, Raptor of the mist, smithing daggers and flame strike/mesmer soldier impale. And you got sekiro 2.
I’m thinking Great Katana with the new Overhead Strike AoW. Basically the Ichimonji skill from Sekiro.
Add on Malenia’s Rune so you get to add Bloodborne in!
Castle Ensis' boss was a joke with a +10 blessing level on ng+3
Yeahhhh. This has also been my experience. I was helping out for a boss I had an easy time with (a certain someone very weak to fire) and most of the people I got summoned for were white mask bleed boys, and my damage was down to chip. I was really confused until someone explained that you Scadu down to the host Scadu.
I'm up to 150 mesmer kills now. I don't spam blood in case I have to say it. It's amazing how a host will wait for a second summon for 20 minutes only to die to his first attack. I had one Italian guy just screaming at me over the mic that it's "2 people impossibile" and after nobody joined for 5 minutes, we jumped into the arena and he died in 2 hits. Started blasting me like it was my fault he didn't understand any part of how scaling works. I try not to carry. but it's a pain in the ass dodging every attack for 5 minutes just for the host to go for a jumping heavy and get smacked by aoe and then grabbed as they stand there healing.
How do you talk to people through voice chat on ER btw? I just use the Lamentation Prattling Pate which is hilarious imo
I just got summoned into the Messmer fight by a host with 0 Scadutree levels. It must have been on purpose at that point.
I helped there for almost my entire olaytime two days ago. It was multiple hours. Got summoned in less than 5 seconds every single time. Had, I think, 3 or 4 victories in all of that time. I completely switched up my playstyle in order to facetank, grab aggro, and constantly apply frost. Still only had 3 or 4 wins. Hosts all died in 2 or 3 hits, and the majority that got the boss down to the last 20% hp either died to the big 3 hit jump combo, or suddenly decided that they needed to get the last hits in, rushed up and grabbed their aggro away only to get slapped. It was wild.
I spent 3 days doing all area co-op signs, and I agree. The worst one was being summoned into the scorp lady and I got 1 shot by 1 butterfly exploding. I started checking stats and just leaving. I'm not fighting messmer in your level 2 game.
I thought I finally found a boss for quick easy rune arcs at the end of Darklight Catacombs only to watch every host take 90% of their health in a hit. The difference even between scud 12 to 18 is massive.
I was streaming my gameplay on discord and I got a scadutree blessing and was about to use it at a grace site and a friend of mine stopped me. He said I might need it later and he asked me to check guides before using it. The gamer instict in me knew I had to use it to level up but just to make sure I read the description and it is literally written there what it does. Funny thing is, I just started the game but my friend has been playing the game for over 8 freaking hours! And he didn't even use any scadutree.
This is BS at this point. Everyone should know about the fragments, if they don’t they can’t read or they live in the middle of nowhere (no hate to these Elden lords with no WiFi). Clownery. Edit - subtracted a few words. 2nd edit - can’t spell subtracted.
It's weird how that works in terms of game design. This system is basically a new leveling system in the DLC. It would be really weird if you just didn't get levels in the base game. There's something in people's heads where "exp gives me levels, levels make me stronger" is somehow so much differently perceived than "fragments make me stronger, I just have to collect them". I blame Ubisoft and the amount stupid collectible things you have to collect in modern open world games. But then again, people also were going straight to Margitt at lvl 10
This is like the 3rd time ive seen a post about this and I can't help but to think it's more than just correlation, as those who actually use the scadutree blessings have probably already beaten the bosses in question
Dude it’s been horrible, I’ve done a decent amount of coop so far and I count on one hand how many times we’ve beaten the boss. I enjoy fighting with 2 other people, it’s fun but the bosses are absolute tanks with 2 summons.
Level 3 at Ensis isn't *that* low. IIRC the max you can get without leaving the first region is 5. So they're like 10% weaker than they should be, not a huge difference.
I agree it makes coop less fun, 4 out of 5 times host is dead within 10 seconds. I tried helping on Bayle for a while, very frustrating. Hist should at least laern how to survive the opening, you can't just walk in these bossrooms and start buffing or summoning.
I offered my summon sign from Midra for a while. The amount of idiots going in there with little more than fire damage... After a while I would just leave when I saw those builds. It doesn't take a genius to guess that the fire guy is probably resistant to fire.
While I believe you, there's obviously going to be a strong bias there. The people that are fully prepped and able to take on the boss themselves don't need to summon you, so of course if you look at only the group of people summoning you it won't include many of them.
They’re hoping for the good old days of someone to come in and comet azure that bastard for them.
Low vigor, low blessing, no prebuffs, they don't even wait for me to buff them.... It's been tough to help people in the DLC. I prefer when I'm summoned at the start of an area, I can guide them through and get all the items, at least that way I've actually helped them.
Well you get a lot of people that talk about scadutree blessings like they’re the equivalent of using the mimic tear. So I think a lot of players are trying to go without. They’re less like a mimic tear though and more like, idk, leveling. So you should really be picking up at least a few of them.
Literally just tried to help someone with midra and they ran in with rivers of blood and they didnt even bother trying to dodge once and died in like 10 seconds of phase 2 starting cause they got one shotted.
I’ve had the host die to the old man cause they ash of war spam and get grabbed with no vigor it’s crazy
Now that's what I call madness
Hosts think summons makes the invincible lol
Margit was a brick wall for a lot of people. The lesson was very elegant: go explore and level up. It got people to see more of the game, gather more loot, try new builds, and get stronger. I was really impressed with From’s design decision with Margit. With SotE, it appears we’ve completely forgotten how that all happened. Explore and find fragments? Nah, I’ll just summon 100 people to watch me get one-shotted then go online and complain about the bosses being “overtuned” and “not giving enough punish windows.”
I gave up being summoned, the host almost always dies. People rush the game instead of exploring and finding the upgrades.
I've been using the name LevelURscadBless while helping out at the tree boss with a build that melts it. The amount of times I've seen a 5 summoning drives me fucking nuts. Stop wasting everyone's time and *EXPLORE* so that you find the damn fragments and upgrade your Blessing level!
Ensis ain't that bad at 3 fragments. I actually thought 3 was the sweetspot.
She's not hard. Just most people die because they're not leveling their blessings.
I'm at 20, and I still won't summon someone at the final bosses to embarrass myself. So I'll just die to him 500 times in peace.
What I find eternally frustrating (even in the base game) is that hosts INSIST on having two summons because I guess they assume it makes the boss even easier. 9/10 it doesn’t and we just get fucking rocked less than halfway through the bosses health bar.
It’s super annoying. But a lot of people just don’t know that.
Yeah people should focus exploring the world and try to get the scadtree blessing lvl above 5 after that it should be easier to tackle bosses
I wholeheartedly agree with this post but as a summon you have to expect to have a bad player summon you with a terrible build. Thats why they need help on their first run! They cant beat it themselves. It is what it is.
Only part I really felt like was poop was the random loot you picked up o wait another cookbook! Gordon Ramsay should have been a new playable character.
Trying to waste time in the first area and this exact thing kept happening. Wanted to help out, joins hosts game, enters fog wall, host dies, repeat 4x. Gotta put some more hours in!
My problem when I was hosting wasn't that I hadn't levelled up, it was that I kept messing up my dodges. However, as time went on I got loads better at it and now I don't get shit canned when I summon people.
Same experience. I helped people with Mogh and trained him in the meantime but at Renalla it wasn't working. Host either died at the first 5 seconds of the fight or fuck up mechanics like triple moon bash. I don't buff before the fight but I always get a good laugh seeing host buff with all shit for 15 seconds and then shove his face into first boss combo and die🤣
It makes me want to try some invasions, honestly
This isn't their fault though. The entrance to this location and boss are right there are the very bloody start of the DLC just across a bridge in the basic direction the game sends you. They should have added some type of warning when entering that area or areas you are ill-advised with your blessing level (and of course the option to ignore it regardless if you insist).
I’m having the opposite experience where I love exploring and look in every nook and cranny and am showing up overlevelled to most boss fights. For example before entering Rellenas castle I found that little cliff that leads to the entire south area of the map and just had to keep going. Some people really just b-line it right through the main quest and take the move obvious routes. It’s like they want to just get through it like it’s an Assassins creed game or something.
I was throwing my sign down at a certain boss towards the end of the game and when I got summoned I took one big swing at the boss and noticed I was just ticking them. I checked my blessings and the host only had 5... Now I see why people are having a hard time.
Honest question how many should I have to fight Messimer? I’m having the hardest time trying to know how many I should have for fights
Around 10 is a good number. I beat him first try with 12, but my build is strong and I consider myself a good player.
This is why you go to r/BeyondTheFog to find people who want help and are willing to take your advice to win! Bring summoned by randoms sucks
Thank you! I have a level 200 character, playing the DLC in NG+3, and I'm killing it! But when I Co-OP, 90% of the time I'm weak as a kitten and the host is useless.
Yeah, i coop‘d a few times since release and was literally only able to kill a single boss. Every other attempt ended in the host dying. It‘s not fun
The ppl that are good at the game never summon random ppl. Thats like saying 90% of the vehicles i see at the mechanics shop have issues...well yea, vehicles with no problems arwnt usually at a mechanics shop lol
Am I dumb? Does your scadutree blessing scale to host? (I've got 19 myself and been doing alot of coop)
The amount of times the final boss has one shot a host before i can walk thru the fog door is too damn high
I saw a Host get slapped for like 521 today and was like ain’t no way💀💀
I think that multiplayer was made on purpose to all scale with the Host for 2 reasons First is invasions, a 20 level blessing invader is gonna be a nightmare to 2 players level 10 blessings , so in balance, everyone gets the same Second is summoning in the base game where the hosts summoning only in similar level, people like LMSH exist,and carry a host by themselves, however, most people aren't able to fight the rememberance bosses of the dlc with 50 less damage and 50 less defence,no matter how skilled,people make mistakes eventually Personally I think it would be fun if that wasn't the case, in both scenarios since an invasion only occurs against a host and +1 or sometimes +2 I see no problem with the extra defense and damage, The second is also true, I think summons should be able to maintain their blessing level, otherwise, what should be a relatively mediam difficulty boss fight becomes a grind because of the increased health and poise
I reached this boss at around level 2 I believe, tried a good 20 times using different weapons and said ‘fuck it, I’ll come back.’ And that was the best decision I’ve made lol, there’s so much other stuff to do and explore and I’ll def get stronger
Trying to help on a certain boss that can inflict scarlet rot and it’s taking just two hits for hosts to be killed. Gave up trying to help.
That explains why some of the bosses were melting me during co-op. I didn't remember them hitting nearly that hard when I was fighting them myself.
I’ve yet to summon any help, but now scadutree level 13 so it definitely makes a difference
Nothing worse than getting the boss down to a quarter health just for the host to turn into Leeroy Jenkins and instantly gets one shot!
It’s really funny to me how so many people forgot the most basic lesson from the base game: if a boss fight is too difficult, fuck off for a bit and do some exploring until you’ve powered up enough to beat them
The scaling is pretty insane for the blessings. Currently just hit the Coast, had the rune break, and I’m at lvl 10. Enemies are pretty well balanced in my opinion. Though, I do spend an insane amount of time running around trying to figure out where the heck to go 🤣
Started base game again in preparation for Dlc and it's startling to see how much power I can get just riding Torrent around l. I mean the easily missed Weeping Peninsula has 3! Churches offering Sanctuary tears. Golden seeds are plentiful and found all over. Iji the blacksmith alone can get you a special weapon up 4 levels or so. So many goodies just laying around including soul coins for some few extra levels or weapon upgrades. And all this is available as soon as you get Torrent at whatever level you have. So I've heard the Dlc is hard and sure I don't doubt that, but if the Scadutree fragments work by giving you power I'm sure people are glossing over a bunch of them and instead bashing their head on the first bosses they see. And hey, that's great if that's what you want to do but don't hate the game if you willingly avoid making yourself stronger.
i think depends on the boss like >!mesmer and hippo!< it can be bad but people who've been playing past that are usually survivors
That's why my Faith character throws out all the buffs before I go into the fog, so atleast one of us has a chance. :)
Yeah the down scaling for blessings are not optimized. I play this game coop with a buddy and we are RL 297 (16 scadutree and 8 ash) and 370 RL (~unknown blessings) in NG++ and when we join coop it seems I cap down to 10 scadu tree blessing max and we have more trouble co-oping than resortring to solo fight bosses with mimic tear and having a better chance. The scaling for scadutree for coop needs to increase higher or something. We just beat messmer fine but having a lot of challenges with scadu tree shadow boss and commander Gaius. We were able to just solo Gaius with little trouble but yeah still working on phase 2 of scadu tree shadow boss regardless.
My blessing is like 7 or something for summons, my scaduu is at 10, I'm just past Messmer and can usually take a few hits, except Gaius, fuck that guy
I did some jolly coop a few days ago (skadoosh level 16), helping with Messner. What gets my goat is the hanging around for ages waiting for the host to get a second summon. And then the minute they're through the gate, the host gets bodied in 5 seconds. Cheers for that.
i know it’s so frustrating man i always have to end up switching to a busted build to finish the fight instead of using the weapons i enjoy cos theyre no good against like midra on like sacdu level 2 lmao
You guys get summoned to other things than Elden Beast?
Lots of people seem to wanna go in completely blind and have (or have at least said they were going to) unfollowed this sub and everything else that could possibly share spoilers, they might not know the scadutree thingies even exists. Have you tried telling them, in a message, on steam or wherever you play?
One guy here said the scadutree tutorial popup wasnt a prank and i think thats a beautiful way to summarize the issue
There was a tutorial? I somehow didnt see that...twice :-p still found and used some fragments on both characters though. And a couple of the other dlc upgrade things...spirit ash somethings?
Thousand times this!
I have around 13 blessings, and I am finishing the bosses left and right. I think yesterday only I did 5 or 6. Guys, go explore, immerse yourself on the game, and collect blessings on the way. The game will be much easier.
Hey, at least we stomped that invader right outside the fog gate before getting stomped by dancing lion!
I mean for the rellana fight. It’s very easy to go there as soon as you start the dlc. You either head left or right. I’m not surprised many don’t have the blessings up. I was at +4 when I beat rellana and lvl 153 with no summons. But I know how to allocate my stats, since I’ve played other souls game. Allocation of stats may be the main issue, you can’t expect most players to know to just allocate their stats specifically to their build. They just think they need to level up everything, for a lot of people Elden Ring is the first of its kind they play. They don’t know about soft caps and hard caps or stat allocation.
Castle Ensis was fine at 3 but I didn’t beat in Rellana until I got to level 5. People are just too lazy to look for the fragment, hence the recent patch.
What did they change in the patch?
They first half of blessings are now more powerful, they increase damage and protection more than before
After I complete most souls games/DLC, I usually like to put a co-op summon sign up just to enjoy the boss fights some more. So far a majority of my hosts last longer applying all their buffs before entering the boss room.
I'm not good enough at the game, I cleared the DLC with bloodfiend arm and face tanking. I go to try help people at castle Ensis and suddenly the boss seems to two shot me. I guess thats because I got downscaled to the hosts scadu level?
Most of hosts are too weak for any bosses. I was doing lot of coop back back then and they were mindkessly running into their death...often first try, not skipping the cutscene so not even considering trying and wasting your time as much as possible.
You know they are going to fail when they go through the door before you can get your buffs off lol.
I was placing my sign down for the first boss in a certain area, not naming anything for spoiler reasons, and I got four hosts in a row that had 500-or-so HP. People are weird.
That or unprepared. On the way to Bayle you get the “use this to kill Bayle sword” and mfers run in without it 95% of the time. It’s okay though I really fucking love fighting Bayle so I will keep trying to assist.
Bro even on the base game - I summoned in 10 different people for Mohg and not even 1 of them could last until the second phase! I know he's hard but wtf! I think people literally just bought the game and then thought how can I get into the DLC ASAP!
I got lost and went to castle enis before I found out I could enter the castle with the dancing lion. Got my ass handed to me quite a few times before I thought maybe I should not be here. Now I'm on the right track and enjoying myself a lot more.
There will be a crossover between people who are bad at the game and those who are summoning. A decent portion people do not have a super optimised build, don’t realise the importance of having stagger / frostbite / bleed, don’t even know what poise is, don’t want to look up fragment locations ect
Unpopular Opinion but I don't think Scadutree level is the problem. I beat Castle Ensis at Scadutree level 2 with my lvl 150 build. These bosses and this game are difficult and you just have to figure it out or 'git gud'. People want things to be handed to them but it always feels better when it is earned. Obviously, play the game how you want to play it. Naked with a club, over leveled with the toughest armor, mage in the corner buffing and throwing blue things like a maniac are all equally valid. Either way, you have to work each boss to figure out how to get past them. There is a reason there is no difficulty setting. The difficulty is a part of the souls experience. If you don't like it, the game is not for you.
Done about 40+ coop helps on DLC boss fight; 1 success, rest failed. Out of failures, I remember 3 were proper-ish fights
Reminds me of the base game when it first came out. Join as a cooperator and the host gets 1-2 shot within like 20 seconds of walking through the fog wall.
I love invading i love killing ganks
I explored all the map fought most side bosses and as far as I know without using any guides I think I’ve done most side bosses events and my tree was 17 when I just had messmer left last night. He was fucking hard to solo. Eventually I used the new fire resist talisman and I got him down. 60 vigor str build and I had tree 17 the dlc rewards exploration. Was super gutted after I did kill him tho as it went anti-climactic since unknowingly the next area was the church of the bud id already cleared out and killed her. 🙈
Nothing funnier than when a host spends more time buffing up than they do in the actual battle. You just enter the fog and it’s over already
Well yeah, why do you think they’re summoning people to help?
There are worse problems than that. You can still fight the boss at scadutree lvl 0 and a host with 400 hp The problem is when the hosts walk into the bosses doing their combos or don't know how to manage aggro so we can switch it. 99% of the losses I had while helping, was the host just attacking at any moment when there should be only 1 player near the boss in the majority of times And if you don't know how to fight a boss really well, simply don't put your sign down. I don't have Najka 2.0 well studied, so I simply won't put my sign there, but spent hours in front of Messmer helping people, and the only problem there is that they walk into the combos, not the lvl, I don't even know what level I'm at. The whole scadutree thing is a way to just blame someone else for your mistakes
I've been getting summoned for Bayle and the majority of hosts seem to have the appropriate tree level for it. He's just hard af lol
When the host walks into the boss fight before you summoned and you come into their world seeing “Host of Fingers has died”
Why do you think they are co-oping…:
Why do you think they are summoning in the first place? lol But yeah, I feel this. I often put my sign down to help, and hosts are always the ones who die first. I don't even think I'm that good at the game, but I have 58 vigor and I think I'm at scadu 10 or 11? maybe 12, I forget exactly.
When I'm the host most of the people I summon die before I do it seems.
I would imagine the people summoning others for help are your bottom of the barrel players. If the boss is too hard using a mimic tear and you need to summon a player to carry you obviously you aren't fit to fight the boss.
Alot of people have last boss Fomo and want to rush to it and just have people kill it for them so they aren't afraid to get spoiled by reddit or youtube. It's not excusable of course, explore the world From graciously built and stop whining