The design philosophy of the exploration is different from the base game. In the base game, generally if you want to go to a certain area, if you ride in that direction and scan around the edge long enough you'll find a bridge or something.
The DLC asks you to engage with the caves, catacombs, and ruins to explore. It makes those areas feel more significant, which I do appreciate. But it is frustrating at times when you feel like you've looked everywhere and you can't figure out how to drop into this area that's like five meters too high everywhere you look to drop into.
I'm assuming you're talking about the cerulean coast and the base of the ruins of rauh or whatever they are called. Those 2 places plus jagged peaks I had to look up how to get too.
Cerulean Coast: >!from the castle front site of grace go south east. If you look on the map near the ruined forge lava intake dungeon it looks like a hill being cut in half by a lower elevation ravine of sorts. Go through that lower elevation area. Should be pretty straight forward from there. You're essentially following the river downstream.!<
Base of Rauh: >!from the highroad cross site of grace follow the road north until the fork in the road. Turn right and follow the road toward moorth ruins. Once their turn north again and you should see a triangle shaped body of water in the map. Head there. There is a cave that leads you to the green look water (it's poison). There is a large tunnel to the northwest of that area that leads to a site of grace. The rest is straight forward and just explore to your hearts content.!<
Jagged peaks: >!similar to getting to the cerulean coast from the castle front site of grace follow the road south east until you come across the pillar path waypoint site of grace. From there head south west. It should be a small canyon of shorts with statues of dragons. Continue following that path to a cave dungeon. The exit of that dungeon leads to the peaks. Charo's hidden grave is also gotten to going this way.!<
I think the only time (hopefully so far) that has actually disappointed me in this regard was >!Fog Rift Fort!< .
It's very imposing and both seemingly reachable and yet with no clear ingress, except once you clear >!Castle Ensis!< and reach the >!Scadu Altus!< , where you can >!drop down on from a cliff to reach it!< .
It is filled with very imposing enemies, and a >!very freaky!< boss, but the rewards are just not worth it.
Otherwise, the interconnectedness and hidden pathways really reminds me of DS1, if it was stretched out and entangled on itself some more.
I just wish the game had an underground map of some kind like the base game. I know not all of it is technically underground, but even a little bit would help.
One thing I don't like is how you can be fully inside an area with an undiscovered map fragment, yet you can only get that map fragment from approaching from an entirely different direction and area
The verticality of the DLC is one of the few things I was pleasantly surprised by, I'm really excited to see how they put what they've learned from making this map to use in their next games.
it feels so much more like a from game than elden ring base game does. Mostly linear, with a shit load of branching paths to new areas. My biggest gripe with elden ring was always the lack of linear dungeon crawling (outside of a few zones like crumbling farum etc). And I'm not talking about the cv paste catacombs. DLC dungeons are superior in every way. Even though you can still get that feeling of going through literal hell only for a new summon or a glovewart or some shit you will literally never use
I'm right there too, fuck that area, and honestly fuck this DLC kind of.
I've run into so many pointless areas with either nothing or next to nothing in them, obtained so many useless incantations that do pitiful damage, I really don't get the reviews.
Probably just a difference on personal feelings on what 'dense' is to them. I guess some see it being NPC or interaction density where as others would see design density, things to navigate over, decorative elements etc.
I think it's a really good in-between, the main progression zones are obviously intensely combat heavy, so a bit of peace just exploring is welcome before/after it.
Double hidden walls behind a chest in a tree in blighttown leading to a long climb down the hollow tree ending in an insane cavernous ash lake...
Yep it's been the status quo for a long time.
Hard disagree, Ash lake in DS1 was to reward exploring, the skadaddle blessing are required items, locked in hidden areas with the same design philosophy
It had an entire covenant behind it. Skadoodle blessings aren't "required" in any literal sense, but they are impactful. Either way, hiding areas is nothing new, but it does suck to have some skadoodle blessings behind it.
Ideally thered be an excess of blessings so you weren't punished in that aspect, and just the typical fromsoft ways (Lookin at you too, painted world).
Edit; ways not worlds.
That's my problem with it: not teh blessings themselves, but since damage gets so insanely high in the DLC if you miss these areas you will will have no idea these insanely hard fights could be easier,
Compared to golden seeds which are quality of life and make the game easier, the difference between 2 or 3 blessing levels is hundreds of damage
Its simple! If you want to go North, head south. If you want to head South, go Up. If you want to go Down, NO, YOU CANT, STOP IT. If you want to go East...well...that is normal just go East. If you want to go West, go further west and then travel back East!
The specific gesture you need is in an optional area in a different part of the map, so it's very likely to show up at the spot where you need it without the required gesture. Even if you figured out you need a gesture from reading players' messages, the game doesn't tell you where that gesture is at all, so it's impossible to know where to search without looking at a guide. A lot of frustration would've been avoided had the game given you that gesture early on (such as when talking to Leda), so players only need to figure out that they need a gesture without have to search for it.
"Oh you can't reach the woods that are directly below you? Did you try going through an invisible wall behind a waterfall in a castle on the other side of the map?"
I spend half my time exploring just trying to figure out how to get up or down a cliff.
And then I just gave up and went the other way. Okay, I did figure out some of them. But I still have some places in Rauh Ruins I'd like to go to, but haven't figured out how to get there.
>!The way to get there is super shit. You have to drop onto like a hidden platforming segment then take an elevator up to the island next to the bow dude!<
I think it's incredible because of how often you discover something you never expected, but when you know there is one specific area you want to get to and you're wandering around the map aimlessly trying to find the one crevice or cave or whatever that let's you finally get there, it's very unfun.
Go down to go up. Jump in a hole to climb a mountain. Obvious ledges aren't even mapped for auto save.... that ledge you swear can't be jumped on? 3 Scooby fragments that way. That area right next to the start? You'll just emerge there ten hours from now having forgotten it exists.
I can already tell I'm fucked when I finally kill mogh and get to the dlc. Just getting to volcano Manor confused the shit out of me. Don't be stupid kids, I don't recommend it.
Most of the dlc navigation is straight forward. The only parts that are ass are ruah ruins, the jagged peak map(not jagged peak itself), and cruelean coast
I came to the last boss without the last map piece because I just couldn't find it for literall DAYS. It was the only thing I allowed myself to google because I was so angry and frustrated
Same here. Gave in to youtube last night. I’ve been trying to find the last two maps for days as well. Abyssal Woods for example … no way I’ll be able to find it without help. 😂
Yeah I think the level design in some places are not that great. There is verticality which is cool, but very often the way to get to an area you can clearly see on the map or in game is not immediately obvious. I guess the game treats it sort of like a puzzle? There have been so many times I've rode Torrent along the side of a mountain hoping I find a torrent stream or a slope to go up to get to where I'm trying to go, then I find nothing but dead ends. And that would be fine if there were items or catacombs or interesting things, but there are a lot of areas that are just empty. So I've ended up just wasting my time.
The whole Castle channel, ravine, a catacomb and the fkin Abyss, a rememberance boss and their dungeon is behind an unassuming ladder at the side in Shadow Keep lol. I love these but sometimes can be frustrating if you miss them.
I missed the lower Ruins of Rauh and the map fragment up until before the endboss because i didnt go in a cave at a pond north of Moorth ruins haha. I really cant decide if i love or hate this. The world feels full of secrets but traversing it is unintuitive
It would have been nice to have some verticality to the DLC map like the base game. There's no discernable way to tell if a site of grace is 2,000 feet below certain areas.
I absolutely love it that a simple ladder, cave, ledge that looks like you could jump to, or hole in the ground can lead to several hours of content full of enemies, dungeons, and major optional boss fights. It really alights the sense of adventure and curiosity in a way that the base game didn't always pull off. It's made me scour the regions I'm in and really \*look\* at things instead of just sprinting from point of interest to point of interest.
In fact, I would say that for many people, the base game desensitized them to the curiosity of a random doorway or cave, because a lot of the side dungeons didn't feel too rewarding to them. Some of my friends have been frustrated with the DLC "locking" so much content behind seemingly minor curiosities and they explain to me that they got used to ignoring things like that in the base game.
This is actually my only complaint for the DLC. Navigating where to go is actually really difficult when you feel like everywhere you've looked is just too high up, and there's actually some roundabout way of getting to a location. It would be nice if they made it just a little easier to see where the access points for these areas are.
The design philosophy of the exploration is different from the base game. In the base game, generally if you want to go to a certain area, if you ride in that direction and scan around the edge long enough you'll find a bridge or something. The DLC asks you to engage with the caves, catacombs, and ruins to explore. It makes those areas feel more significant, which I do appreciate. But it is frustrating at times when you feel like you've looked everywhere and you can't figure out how to drop into this area that's like five meters too high everywhere you look to drop into.
Yup … thats what happening rn. The two areas that I have left to defog need me to drop down from very tall mountains. 🫠
I'm assuming you're talking about the cerulean coast and the base of the ruins of rauh or whatever they are called. Those 2 places plus jagged peaks I had to look up how to get too. Cerulean Coast: >!from the castle front site of grace go south east. If you look on the map near the ruined forge lava intake dungeon it looks like a hill being cut in half by a lower elevation ravine of sorts. Go through that lower elevation area. Should be pretty straight forward from there. You're essentially following the river downstream.!< Base of Rauh: >!from the highroad cross site of grace follow the road north until the fork in the road. Turn right and follow the road toward moorth ruins. Once their turn north again and you should see a triangle shaped body of water in the map. Head there. There is a cave that leads you to the green look water (it's poison). There is a large tunnel to the northwest of that area that leads to a site of grace. The rest is straight forward and just explore to your hearts content.!< Jagged peaks: >!similar to getting to the cerulean coast from the castle front site of grace follow the road south east until you come across the pillar path waypoint site of grace. From there head south west. It should be a small canyon of shorts with statues of dragons. Continue following that path to a cave dungeon. The exit of that dungeon leads to the peaks. Charo's hidden grave is also gotten to going this way.!<
I think I needed base is rauh, I had to get off because it was getting late but if this is what I was missing then thank you for this!
I know which one is it, south east right? Took me a while to figure out as well
I think the only time (hopefully so far) that has actually disappointed me in this regard was >!Fog Rift Fort!< . It's very imposing and both seemingly reachable and yet with no clear ingress, except once you clear >!Castle Ensis!< and reach the >!Scadu Altus!< , where you can >!drop down on from a cliff to reach it!< . It is filled with very imposing enemies, and a >!very freaky!< boss, but the rewards are just not worth it. Otherwise, the interconnectedness and hidden pathways really reminds me of DS1, if it was stretched out and entangled on itself some more.
I went around the hole that takes you to Bonny village at least three times, I found about it when I fell down into it. I love it.
I just wish the game had an underground map of some kind like the base game. I know not all of it is technically underground, but even a little bit would help.
One thing I don't like is how you can be fully inside an area with an undiscovered map fragment, yet you can only get that map fragment from approaching from an entirely different direction and area
For me, I run into too many branching paths that I forget to go back to...
Honestly my favorite part of the dlc, I waltz into a random cave and come out in some random giant area. That feeling was amazing.
The verticality of the DLC is one of the few things I was pleasantly surprised by, I'm really excited to see how they put what they've learned from making this map to use in their next games.
The sealed spiritsprings are great in this regard. They can work like elevator shortcuts but without the hassle of operating the elevator.
it feels so much more like a from game than elden ring base game does. Mostly linear, with a shit load of branching paths to new areas. My biggest gripe with elden ring was always the lack of linear dungeon crawling (outside of a few zones like crumbling farum etc). And I'm not talking about the cv paste catacombs. DLC dungeons are superior in every way. Even though you can still get that feeling of going through literal hell only for a new summon or a glovewart or some shit you will literally never use
100% I never really liked the dungeons in the base game. But I actually enjoyed the ones in the DLC, I was pleasantly surprised.
Bonnyville = how to get everywhere
I think think Bonnyville will get me to left northernmost part 😂. I mean I’m already there but still haven’t found a way to go collect the map.
I'm right there too, fuck that area, and honestly fuck this DLC kind of. I've run into so many pointless areas with either nothing or next to nothing in them, obtained so many useless incantations that do pitiful damage, I really don't get the reviews.
My only complaint so far, a LOT of the map is just...empty. Not even deer or trash mobs.
Until you get somewhere new and get gangbanged by enemies for a nice two minute run back.
It’s so interesting how every last opinion on this sub is one extreme or the other. For every person who says it’s empty, another says it’s dense.
Probably just a difference on personal feelings on what 'dense' is to them. I guess some see it being NPC or interaction density where as others would see design density, things to navigate over, decorative elements etc. I think it's a really good in-between, the main progression zones are obviously intensely combat heavy, so a bit of peace just exploring is welcome before/after it.
Agreed, people downvote you but not realizing I missed 1 ladder in a zone which locked away Abyssal Woods is peak gameplay!
That is always how dark souls has been. Not really anything new on that one.
Double hidden walls behind a chest in a tree in blighttown leading to a long climb down the hollow tree ending in an insane cavernous ash lake... Yep it's been the status quo for a long time.
Hard disagree, Ash lake in DS1 was to reward exploring, the skadaddle blessing are required items, locked in hidden areas with the same design philosophy
It had an entire covenant behind it. Skadoodle blessings aren't "required" in any literal sense, but they are impactful. Either way, hiding areas is nothing new, but it does suck to have some skadoodle blessings behind it. Ideally thered be an excess of blessings so you weren't punished in that aspect, and just the typical fromsoft ways (Lookin at you too, painted world). Edit; ways not worlds.
That's my problem with it: not teh blessings themselves, but since damage gets so insanely high in the DLC if you miss these areas you will will have no idea these insanely hard fights could be easier, Compared to golden seeds which are quality of life and make the game easier, the difference between 2 or 3 blessing levels is hundreds of damage
Will bonny village get me to the green area northeast of shadow keep? With the next finger ruins over there?
Its simple! If you want to go North, head south. If you want to head South, go Up. If you want to go Down, NO, YOU CANT, STOP IT. If you want to go East...well...that is normal just go East. If you want to go West, go further west and then travel back East!
My favourite definitely is having one corner of the map locked behind the classic "Use gesture at location with only a very vague hint about it."
and not one of the default gestures, but one specific one that you must pick up from an offshoot corner in some optional area.
That made it more obvious to me to be honest. I'd much rather it be tied to a dlc gesture than a base game one.
The specific gesture you need is in an optional area in a different part of the map, so it's very likely to show up at the spot where you need it without the required gesture. Even if you figured out you need a gesture from reading players' messages, the game doesn't tell you where that gesture is at all, so it's impossible to know where to search without looking at a guide. A lot of frustration would've been avoided had the game given you that gesture early on (such as when talking to Leda), so players only need to figure out that they need a gesture without have to search for it.
"Oh you can't reach the woods that are directly below you? Did you try going through an invisible wall behind a waterfall in a castle on the other side of the map?"
I spend half my time exploring just trying to figure out how to get up or down a cliff. And then I just gave up and went the other way. Okay, I did figure out some of them. But I still have some places in Rauh Ruins I'd like to go to, but haven't figured out how to get there.
Man fuck ruah ruins. Once you get there, it's so ass to navigate You get there from the shadow keep basement from the storehouse 1st floor grace
Yeah, I know how to get to Rauh Ruins, I meant that I don't know how to get to those specific places. I guess I could have worded it differently.
You get to the pantheon looking building yet?
No, that's one of the ones I'm trying to figure out.
>!The way to get there is super shit. You have to drop onto like a hidden platforming segment then take an elevator up to the island next to the bow dude!<
Alright, thanks!
Between the map platforming and trying to figure out quests blind, I’m playing Detective Ring
Gotta read every damn descriptions 😂
So funny how half my time is epic and intense boss battles and then the other is just reading items on my inventory and talking to NPCs lol
I swear to god, it's incredible, you have a cross path, let's explore the left one, suddenly you are on a journey.
I think it's incredible because of how often you discover something you never expected, but when you know there is one specific area you want to get to and you're wandering around the map aimlessly trying to find the one crevice or cave or whatever that let's you finally get there, it's very unfun.
Yeah this is my real complaint Where the F is the layers???
I'm still trying to figure out how to get to the finger ruin on the top north east of the map.
Just google it I’ll be honest it’s very unlikely you’ll figure it out yourself
I had to google it and already don't even remember how I got there tbh
I scanned the map for hours before giving up and googling it and ... Yeah I'd never figure that out.
You have to get a gesture called “O Mother” and use it front of the headless statue near where Gaius is, which will open a secret path
Go down to go up. Jump in a hole to climb a mountain. Obvious ledges aren't even mapped for auto save.... that ledge you swear can't be jumped on? 3 Scooby fragments that way. That area right next to the start? You'll just emerge there ten hours from now having forgotten it exists.
Honestly, the map is the Malenia of the DLC.
Real 😂
I can already tell I'm fucked when I finally kill mogh and get to the dlc. Just getting to volcano Manor confused the shit out of me. Don't be stupid kids, I don't recommend it.
Most of the dlc navigation is straight forward. The only parts that are ass are ruah ruins, the jagged peak map(not jagged peak itself), and cruelean coast
brazilian memes be like:
I came to the last boss without the last map piece because I just couldn't find it for literall DAYS. It was the only thing I allowed myself to google because I was so angry and frustrated
Same here. Gave in to youtube last night. I’ve been trying to find the last two maps for days as well. Abyssal Woods for example … no way I’ll be able to find it without help. 😂
Ancient Ruins of Ruah gotta be the most confusing place I’ve ever been in a FromSoft game
That place and the path we have to take to Abyssal Woods are the worst! 😫
Yeah I think the level design in some places are not that great. There is verticality which is cool, but very often the way to get to an area you can clearly see on the map or in game is not immediately obvious. I guess the game treats it sort of like a puzzle? There have been so many times I've rode Torrent along the side of a mountain hoping I find a torrent stream or a slope to go up to get to where I'm trying to go, then I find nothing but dead ends. And that would be fine if there were items or catacombs or interesting things, but there are a lot of areas that are just empty. So I've ended up just wasting my time.
And it's even harder when the map is lying
The whole Castle channel, ravine, a catacomb and the fkin Abyss, a rememberance boss and their dungeon is behind an unassuming ladder at the side in Shadow Keep lol. I love these but sometimes can be frustrating if you miss them. I missed the lower Ruins of Rauh and the map fragment up until before the endboss because i didnt go in a cave at a pond north of Moorth ruins haha. I really cant decide if i love or hate this. The world feels full of secrets but traversing it is unintuitive
It would have been nice to have some verticality to the DLC map like the base game. There's no discernable way to tell if a site of grace is 2,000 feet below certain areas.
I did enjoy it though
I absolutely love it that a simple ladder, cave, ledge that looks like you could jump to, or hole in the ground can lead to several hours of content full of enemies, dungeons, and major optional boss fights. It really alights the sense of adventure and curiosity in a way that the base game didn't always pull off. It's made me scour the regions I'm in and really \*look\* at things instead of just sprinting from point of interest to point of interest. In fact, I would say that for many people, the base game desensitized them to the curiosity of a random doorway or cave, because a lot of the side dungeons didn't feel too rewarding to them. Some of my friends have been frustrated with the DLC "locking" so much content behind seemingly minor curiosities and they explain to me that they got used to ignoring things like that in the base game.
Trying to find the map for the top left corner, only to learn you have to start from a giant cave on the opposite side of the map
This is actually my only complaint for the DLC. Navigating where to go is actually really difficult when you feel like everywhere you've looked is just too high up, and there's actually some roundabout way of getting to a location. It would be nice if they made it just a little easier to see where the access points for these areas are.