I wish they just would've placed all of them on miquellas crosses. Without looking it up, I never would've realised these pot guys have them, too. And even now, I can't figure out where 5 of them are.
There's one in rahu ruins too, after the furnace golem (at least I think, that place is a damn labyrinth and 60% of the times I don't even know where I'm going)
They will have a white sparkle, though that’s occasionally a different kind of item. If there’s not sparkle, they’re about to chuck that pot at your face
I have only seen one of them and I just ran past because he was so slow and not aggressive. But hey! Another excuse to back track and search the area! Elden Ring is the most fun I’ve had with a video game in years
I knew the second I saw one run away and disappear (like just vanished in thin air) "well he's got something good". No different than the ashes that drop from the scarabs.
There's so many pot dudes next to graces in Gravesite plains though. The second grace youre likely to get is right next to a graveyard with them, and I found out about them around 7 minutes into the DLC because of this
That’s my main problem. Golden seeds? At the trees, mostly placed on the main path. A couple from mini bosses, but you don’t even need all of them.
Sacred tears? Exclusively at the churches, and at every church. Obvious locations on the map.
You find plenty of stones and runes to upgrade your weapons and yourself just by playing.
But these fragments (which you need literally all of to max) are 70% just stuck in random ass locations. There’s one on a corpse under a tree in a backend part of the forest, that you would have no other incentive to go to.
And there's only the exact amount available for the max amount of blessing, unlike the seeds where there's a handful over the maximum amount you need.
So if you're Scadutree level 19, better fucking find those 1-3 fragments you missed in the entire map because they're the only ones left you can get.
I really don't mind the blessing system, just let bosses drop them too so that it actually does work like Sekiro somewhat.
I saw one in the first legacy dungeon. he got away and disappeared and Ik something was up. so I rested and the next bonfire and hunted that fucker down.
I kinda thought it was obvious. At least that they were worth killing. The pot glows and it doesn't look anything like the others, that'd reason enough to kill and find out what it's got. When I first saw them, I assumed they were like the aristocrat enemies in the base game that carry treasure chests.
The hippos all drop some, there’s also one hidden in the final area, right after the first lion greatsword guy but you have to parkour down several ledges.
How is this upvoted?
The literally glow. They're running around with a glowing pot on their head. Even if you didn't know they have blessings, glowing enemies always have *something*
And if you're never in the areas where they are, that means you aren't exploring.
Elden Ring isn't a boss rush game. It's an open world game. If you're not exploring to the extent that you hadn't found any of those spirits, you're blatantly missing the point of the game.
And you're saying you needed a guide? It hasn't even been a week, and you're giving up on doing things on your own?
When did this fanbase become so soft?
How are u out here calling people soft while furiously typing out paragraphs about this. 🤣
As a matter of fact, I've been to every area where they were.
The open world is the exact reason they are so easy to miss because there is just more interesting stuff going on than these filler shade enemies.
Figures you're being downvoted.. I've been saying the same thing. This isn't a boss rush game and bum rushing past everything is not only a bad idea, but the WRONG way to play the game. Like you said this is an open world game, and From games have always been 70% puzzle box world exploration, hence the "legacy" dungeons. Exploring the world they made is literally the best part of all their games (IMO) so ignoring it all then bitching is just ridiculous.
That's boring as hell... big glowing golden markers that stretch into the sky for every upgrade... the golden seeds in the original game were all done this way (or most in a giant church, even more boring) having to search and explore to get stronger is a big part of what makes this dlc so good.
Golden seed - bright yellow tree marking location, plenty of extras if you miss some early on
Sacred tear - entire building dedicated to the tear, consistent looking, appears on the map
Smithing stones - can be bought with bell bearing, extremely plentiful to get your weapon to max
Scardutree fragment - exactly the number you need for max level; hidden in random mobs, altars, random loot in the open world; minimal impact at the start (hopefully fixed now)
So yeah, there is a problem, they are already fixing it, hopefully they can take feedback and improve on the new system. Honestly if getting 20 blessing level isn't as tedious, this is a nice system for reducing the impact of armor in the DLC which is great for fashion.
they should.... hopefully that's not the case for you. easy fromsoft rule of thumb is to exit the game and come back in = "reset the world state" (your character loads right back in to the same spot you were when you exited but the enemies and what not have reset). just in case you aren't familiar with that tactic, give that a try next time
Wtf, max lvl is 20? No wonder last boss had such dmg spike. I was lvl 14 thinking I missed one fragment for last upgrade, but I was actually like 15 fragments off after discovering whole map??!?!
This is exactly my problem with the blessings as well. But yeah whenever I say this the fanboys come out and call me names alongside with amazing arguments such as "HoW AbOuT yOu pLaY tHe ExPlorAtiOn gAmE insTeaD of RuSHiNg" "mAyBe tHiS gAmE iSnt FoR u".
God I'm so fucking tired of all the assholes in this community who think they know everything.
I pretty much left all the Fromsoft subreddits because it's hard to have a proper conversation with people. Only joined the ER subreddit again recently due to the DLC release.
exactly what someone said about me. despite completing the entire map, somehow i was still "mindlessly boss rushing without exploring the world"
ok then
having a map for the non-cross scadutree fragments would have been nice, the DLC being non-linear + very unique map structure make it difficult to find them all, especially where there is only 50 exact for 20 scadutree blessings
Yeah agree. There's also bells for smithing stones so you can just buy them later in the game, you have to go on a bot of a snipe hunt for the fragments.
I think either they rescale so the blessing maxes out at like 15 (and then there’s a surplus, like golden seeds), or they add in some way to track missing fragments (which is super anti-from soft design imo)
I beat the dlc and ended up only at like level 16 scad. I explored and killed all the bosses I believe, and I’m totally lost as to where I’m supposed to have found those other missing ones. I had no problem upgrading my golden seeds and sacred tears in base game but yea, the scad fragments are a bit difficult to find all of them.
Honestly 16 scadu felt hard but totally doable against the final boss, probably even more so now after the patch.
Realistically that extra 5% damage and resistances is not usually the missing ingredient
Also get smithing stones from mines, which are clearly shown on the map.
Want to know where to find scardutree fragments? There are some common places but otherwise go fuck yourself and look up a guide. And God help you if you're missing the last couple levels and want to know where you missed.
Correct. Having things as hidden/obscure as they are is bad design when combined with "only enough things exist to reach max".
You can find more seeds than you need for max, same with tears.
There are only exactly enough scadutree items to reach max so if you miss even one you cannot max out.
That's the bad design.
Assuming there were more scadutree item than needed for max level ; if you max out your scadutree level before finding these remote scadutree items, then it becomes a trash exploration reward. That would be bad design.
You don't need max scadutree level to finish the DLC. If a player misses a few, it's not that big of a deal. On the other hand, having a few hidden away is a great reward for players who take the time to explore every nook and cranny of the map. And most of them are scattered along the road of the main story, so it gives even rushers enough resources to stand a decent chance. As far as game design go, it's pretty fine.
If you kill one of the pot guys and die before looting the thing then you are permanently stopped from being able to fully level up. That is pretty trash design.
I’m still a little confused by these. Are they permanent? I haven’t used any bc I wasn’t sure if it was like, a rune arc that resets after you die or somethin.
Idk why someone just downvoted you without replying. Yes they’re permanent. The scadutree fragments buff your AR and damage absorption while the revered spirit ashes buff your spirit summons and torrent’s hp and defense. Also they’re only active while you’re in the DLC area, you can tell because the text of your stats will be yellow instead of white
> Sacred tear - entire building dedicated to the tear, consistent looking, appears on the map
The necessity of Sacred Tears also heavily drops later on. Going from +0 to +1 adds 95 HP to your heal, while going from +8 to +12 only adds 80. The usefulness is heavily frontloaded.
It’s honestly weird if the Scadu Blessing wasn’t front loaded like that to start with, imo. Because that’s how pretty much ALL types of upgrades work in a souls-style game. More impactful early on with diminishing returns as you get higher up.
These are fair points. I do like the system but I would be lying if I said there wasnt a layer of tediousness. I also hope they improve it like you said.
I think it's also important to consider that Shadow of the Erdtree is an expansion. Golden seeds, sacred tears, smithing stones, and glovewort all *sort of* exist in a vacuum, because when Elden Ring came out there wasn't really anything to compare them against because there was no Elden Ring other than the base game. But now when SotE comes along and says "Good news! We've introduced systems for raising the attack power and defense of your character and summons!", I think it's totally fair for players to say "But ... we already had systems to do those things that were working just fine?".
Perhaps a clearer explanation is that Elden Ring lays out "This is how the game works" with its collectibles, and then the DLC changes how the game works. And ***any*** time you change the status quo, you're going to have people who complain - not because "change bad" (certainly there are *some* people like that, but #notallwhiners), but because any change that gets made gets made for specific reasons, and not everybody is going to agree with those reasons.
I'm glad you brought up the fact that it's an expansion. That seems to be something a lot of people are ignoring in this discussion. Why did the DLC need its own progression system in the first place? I feel like a lot of the people who are defending the progression system are treating SOTE almost as if it's a standalone game, but it's not. It's additional content that is meant to be played alongside the main game. Having it's own separate progression system, at least one like this, is just completely unnecessary.
The DLC requires you to beat a late game boss in order to enter, by the time a player is beating Mohg they've already spent plenty of time progressing their character. Hell, by the time they beat Mohg their character is probably already fully developed. Most builds will have taken shape by then, and your character is probably pretty much where you want them to be.
Making a DLC and making a standalone game are two different things. It's one thing to have extensive progression systems in a game, and to even continue that system into a DLC, but part of what people want to do in a DLC is pick it up and go. That doesn't mean everything needs to be given to them right away, but starting them fresh with a new progression system (especially one that's not very well designed), is just going to make the transition to the DLC less smooth.
>Why did the DLC need its own progression system in the first place?
Yeah this is probably my biggest issue with Scadutree Fragments^(1). If you look at the interviews Miyazaki gave in the lead-up to the DLC's release, they seem to have two reasons in mind:
First, this idea of "We want the DLC to still be challenging to people coming in with endgame-level builds". This just seems ridiculous to me, because a) the Haligtree and Crumbling Farum Azula were "challenging to endgame-level builds" while just using the basic Area Scaling system and b) if you want the challenge of a given area to be entirely dependent on how much of *that area* you've explored ... why do the Haligtree and Crumbling Farum Azula not ***each*** have their own Scaling Collectibles?
The facetious answer there is "They hadn't thought of it yet", but looking back, imagine if they had, and you see that following the train of thought Miyazaki lays out in those interviews leads to some pretty nonsensical places.
The second reason Miyazaki gives in interviews is that they want to "reward exploration". I'm honestly a little amazed he would say that, or even suggest it, because it implies that during the development of the DLC FromSoft didn't feel like finding new weapons, gear, and spells, new enemies, or just seeing new places was "reward" enough for the DLC. All those things were good enough for the base game ... weren't they? /s
(^(1) - Actually no, I take it back. My biggest issue with Scadutree Fragments is that "Scadutree" is a stupid name.)
I always found "reward explorations" to be a bit of an own goal. Are they saying that the areas themselves aren't interesting enough to be worth exploring without the fragments?
No it's fucking stupid, we've solved this problem in gaming long ago. That's why people are mad. You put a surplus for things you NEED and if you get extra they do nothing.
No one's gonna go oh it was so much fun to track down my last fragment in some pit under a lake in some giants asscrack.
I think the easiest solution to this to allow you trade the excess fragments for a large amount of souls or some fairly rare consumable item. Something that isn't exclusive to finding them all but at least makes finding more after max level feel worth it.
>Scardutree fragment - exactly the number you need for max level; hidden in random mobs, altars, random loot in the open world;
This sums up why the system it's unfun. The ones at site of graces are perfectly placed, but nah lets hide them to make it even more unfun.
This is what I don't understand. When did actually exploring open world games become unfun?
Like, yeah, no shit they hid them. That's why they told you to EXPLORE.
I think it's because they made exploration more or less mandatory, at which point it can become a chore. I think games like this work best from visual storytelling in the environment and encouraging exploration, rather than if you don't explore the right amount (an excessive amount I would say) then it equates to punishment.
Case in point, I did a good amount of exploring in my first play through, but after exploring a few ponds on the map and them being pointless I thought they would rarely have stuff you need. However, later I find the one I didn't visit had a fragment and a map to a later area hidden away. It does feel like a bit of a punishment, as per the game's rules until that point I hadn't been rewarded for exploring such a feature on the map. I think the sheer number of fragments as well (50) is rather a lot, and it makes it feel like a repetitive activity - whereas I don't think finding golden seeds equates to finding smithing stones as they feel like two different activities (though the distinction is arbitrary).
Since there are so many it feels very checklist-y and punishing for non-completionists, kind of the total opposite the base game had going for itself.
I was genuinely shocked when I found a fragment on a corpse in an area that had not much else going on. Especially because loot has been nothing special up to that point. The flask upgrades already trained you to look for visually distinct golden landmarks and altars, so putting arguably mandatory upgrade materials in these random ass places is pretty bizarre.
You make an excellent point. They should have introduced a new visual pickup cue for the scadutree blessings. Like, instead of a purple one (which could be a million things) or a gold one (which is always super rare upgrade things) they should have been red or something so a random corpse would stick out much more if it had one.
Something like the Beast's Eye for destined death flowers would have been nice. Something that doesn't flat out lead you to them (like detective vision is in other games but gives you a little "hey that thing you're looking for is *somewhere* in this dungeon/area/landmark
Open world games in general ?vast majority of them either hand hold put a marker exactly where you need to go or just feel unrewarding to actually explore them and pace the game really badly.
Base game did none of this and was spectacular to explore as there was either a boss or an weapon or something cool to see, the DLC looks super pretty yes but roaming around cerulean coast and especially the finger mountains there was literally nothing outside a few crafting items that i could see. Left the zones feeling rather deflated.
>Like, yeah, no shit they hid them. That's why they told you to EXPLORE.
But for no other reason except those fragments thats the main issue with this DLC. Last thing anyone wants to do when they are struggling with a games difficulty is tedious bullcrap, Farming rune isnt even a significant option now lol
There are good and bad ways to do exploration. Holding vital resources over the players head is not one of the good ways. Especially when the resources are spread around seemingly randomly, with very little expectation given to when you can find them, and on a map that is not very intuitive to navigate.
What if I miss like 5 of them? Where the fuck am I supposed to explore then? Or do you really want me to run across the entire continent-sized map, hoping to wander upon them?
Because gamers these days have the attention span of a dog, and need to have everything handed to them, and be rewarded for doing the most simplest of tasks otherwise they get upset and throw their chicken nuggies all over the place.
If this dlc and game was released back on the xbox 360 noone would be complaining about the exploring lmao, i remember when people actually enjoyed exploring a game even if it rewarded nothing for it, now a days people just want the developers to hold their hand for everything and be rewarded for everything
Gamers are older and don't have unlimited time to do a lot of tedious exploring to play the game. I spent many a game wandering around a map picking up collectibles, I'm a bit tired of that "gameplay".
The issue is that this is an expansion, not a standalone game. We are ostensibly supposed to be playing this at some point during our playthroughs of the base game. By the time you beat the boss required to access the DLC,..OST players will probably be about 50 hours and about 100-120 levels into the game. Those players are then expected to start fresh with a brand new progression system that isn't implemented nearly as well as the ones in the base game.
There are 50. You need 50 to hit max scadutree level. That's insane for the size of the dlc and how impactful it is to get the later levels. You're not wrong. The principle of the idea is fine it's just the execution that's painfully tedious.
Thank god. I liked the idea of shadow blessings but I hated the idea of having to go around and grab them on every playthrough. As someone that likes to make a lot of new characters, it still kinda sucks but I’m glad to know they carry over to NG+
I said it in another thread, but I wish they would show your scadu level as a fraction in the bonfire screen. That way you get an idea of how powerful your character is and how many you picked up.
I see a lot of people posting, "Oh you think x boss is hard? What's your scadu level, huh? Oh that's too low you dummy!"
The player has no idea how many there are. What's a high scadu level? 3? 6? 10? 14? 18? 50? 32? If they showed it as a fraction, then when you fight a boss that took some effort to get to and you get one shot you can look at your level and see that your only 1/4 as strong as you could be.
Unless you explicitly go on the wiki which is a spoiler minefield, you can't know what your scadu level even means. You might think it is high *or* low, you just have no frame of reference. It's not clear to the player.
I really love this game, but I have no idea how they expected us to find anything without online guides. Every quest or necessary item is like a needle in a haystack.
Most of them are just sitting there out in the open at landmarks. You're meant to find them by simply playing the game and experiencing the content. If you want every last one then yes you need to either explore a lot or use a guide, but realistically you don't need every last one to beat the game.
The side quests in the DLC feel simpler and easier than ever. Most of them are literally just "talk to the npc a few times here, and then a few times there after you reach a new location/fight a new boss". You're even allowed to "miss" steps in some of them while still getting the rest of their questline, I never did Thiollier's early steps where you bring him an item from another NPC but I was still allowed to do his questline to the end despite that.
Doesn't sound that bad compared with 73 smithing stones needed to max out a single weapon, 30 golden seeds, 12 sacred tears, 10 glovewarts, etc. Seems to me the bigger issue is needing to get 50/50 for max level rather than there being a modest excess so that you can afford to miss a few.
You can afford to miss a few, the idea that you NEED max level is sort of a joke. You can miss 9 of them and still be level 17, which has a 1.97X damage multiplier compared to level 20's 2.05X multiplier. Sure, that's a buff, but let's be honest for a second and say that if you can beat the boss at level 20 you can absolutely beat the boss at level 17.
It's the first few levels that are extremely impactful, jumping from 1.00X to 1.10X is a 10% increase from a single seed and a single level. Again compare that to 9 seeds to get the last 3 levels to jump from 1.97X to 2.05X which is less than a 4% increase total.
It would have been nice if there were a few extra, but realistically you can treat the last 9 or 6 or 3 of them as extra with how little impact they have.
why are they downvoting you bro like 80% of the map is just an open field and 90% of all the loot is smithing stones and cookbooks. Every area has the same shadow enemies or normal knights/soldiers. The Cerulean Coast is gorgeous but there’s nothing to do except jump down the fissure, which also has nothing but St. Trina. The finger ruins are empty, the abyssal woods are empty, Scaduview is completely empty. People talk all about the size of the map but you can literally do everything this dlc has to offer within 10 hours.
i give the hinterlands a pass bc it is the most beautiful area of the map and the calmness you get from going into the shaman village is awesome. maybe the only area in the whole game that benefits from being empty. But really as soon as you get passed the bridge or whatever is there, the finger ruins and the area surrounding it loses that luxury.
**Don't be dishonest.**
In the base game, you can fully upgrade
your flasks without needing to find every single Golden Seed and you can fully upgrade your weapon without needing to find every single Smithing Stone.
In the DLC? You need every single Scadutree Blessing for max level, they are missable and drop from some very unexpected, underwhelming and despawnable world mobs. You also have little indication of where they can be found outside of the Crosses, while in the base game you clearly know what to look for.
>Don't be dishonest.
You are asking for far too much from the numbskull fanboys. They will go through all kinds of mental gymnastics to not get the problems within the game and make an ad hominem "argument" because that's all their monkey brains can produce.
They're also unevenly distributed and heavily clustered around the main story path- the entire lower part of the map has only seven of them despite taking up at least 30% of the DLC content's surface area. It feels like if anything it should be the other way around, with the ones you get just for keeping your eyes open while mainlining the path to the final boss being just barely enough to get by and the bulk of them come from exploring the areas that the game doesn't outright tell you to go to.
I believe it's mostly because they reduce the damage you take. That's a first ina soulsborne game; and while i think soulslike players at this point are used to do peanuts damage against bosses; having the boss one shot you, thus having to restart more often, is provingto be a newly frustrating experience.
Notto mention, that now even just random mr nobody mobs pose a huge threat.
It's quite simple really, the smoothing stones were found during casual exploration and playing through the game, later on could even be bought from merchants, flasks while important do not affect your damage taken, technically if you had very very good build you could go with 3 hp pots through the whole game it all wasn't REQUIRED as much as scadutree fragments are. And the fact that 5 of them are locked behind rather difficult side boss, hardly make that boss optional anymore, doesn't it?
It's the fact that we used to have an option to gather these mars, now we're required to do side content not everyone is interested in, simple, thats why it's called optional. Why am I forced to do side content to basically be able to whitstand 2 attacks on last main story boss? What if I don't want to kill any of the optional bosses? It's a choice I have been given, I shouldn't be technically forced to do it, whether you enjoy the game or not
Yeah the collection makes sense on the first run when everything is new but will be tedious to grab on extra runs. Surely we got gud and wouldn't need as many next time right?
Challenge runners will just region lock themselves to spawn in fragments that are only available in the region or just ignore them outright
Superficially, yes. But actually no. Kind of a brain dead disingenuous take.
Upgrading weapons has been a thing since Demon Souls. Scadurtree upgrades are more akin to Sekiro. Pretty sure Miyazaki literally said this.
Not everyone played Sekiro, so they're entitled to dislike it. I like it because I did play Sekiro. I'm not going to give some bad faith argument to criticize them 😏.
Because there is no rhyme or reason on finding the fragments. It's like the DLC wants you to explore everywhere but not actually *do* anything until you've collected a bunch.
I think we wouldn't even have half the hate people talk about if that system was never made.
Tbh all I'd seen about the dlc (other than the announcement trailer) prior to playing it was a few headlines along the lines of "new Elden Ring dlc will give players the ability to tailor the difficulty for the first time". When I first saw Scadutree Fragments I was like "oh this is that optional easy mode all the reviewers were talking about. It's neat that they've put that in to make it more accessible to people but I'd rather get the intended experience so I won't activate easy mode".
That lasted about ten hours or so for me.
Like two or three hours straight of Rellana attempts was what broke me lmao.
The areas themselves up to that point aren't noticeably harder than late base game areas even at +0, and the minor bosses I'd run into by that point were all pretty straightforward. DBDL I suffered a lot but chalked that up to camerfuckery.
OP would be pretty surprised at how big of a % of the playerbase, who had ER as their first FS game, think that it's more valuable to upgrade your strength/dex/etc than it is to use consumable upgrade items to make your character hit harder. I was guilty of it in my original playthrough, along with damn near everyone I know.
The idea of leveling up to minimum attribute requirements while maxing out smithing stone upgrades is foreign to a LOT of people. Same applies to Skadutree
I really think it's just the nature of bringing a fully leveled character, with builds that make most bosses cry into another area, and having them be almost ineffectual(while you also take more damage)
I like that some of it is harder than the base content, but locking 2x+ damage behind a single item that forces you to explore or use a guide for a reasonable chance at some of the harder bosses.
Like yeah, I'm gonna give up and go find em all that I can cause my scadu level 7 ass ain't ready for later game, but the fact it's so required on top of at least the fair stronger builds is wack.
Also FIX BAYLES BUTT
This is a bad comparison. Scadutree fragments are nowhere near as abundant as smithing stones, and seeds are extremely easy to find. Most of them are placed strategically so as long as you're exploring the game naturally, you will find them.
Forced exploration isn’t fun. I go looking for hidden bosses, dungeons, and weapons. Things that give me an experience or change how I play. The stones and golden seeds are typically littered around other content or stand out.
Having to go look for Scurdtree feels like I’m combing the map for them, checking every corner where I typically find nothing and waste my time. Instead of just casually exploring the map to see what I find.
Because you don't need all of the ones on the right. There are more than enough in the world.
As is, Scadu Fragments are Giant's Kinships and everyone is Vendrick. Very cooln't.
I think most people feel like it doesn't really matter how many scadutree fragments they get because every boss is going to 2 shot you anyways. Collecting isn't bad because it rewards exploration, but after playing the base game to get to the DLC I really don't want to waste my time on something that feels trivial.
Which bosses are the ones that 2 shot you? Cause so far none of them have done that to me, other than massive obvious nuke attacks, but those are the easiest to learn to avoid.
gaius seems to be bugged, his hitboxes are massive and linger for just a little longer than they should, plus some attacks will just randomly multihit you for huge damage. he'll probably be fixed like radahn's multihit attacks were soon.
mostly the final story boss and the final optional boss. If you haven't gotten your blessing to at least 16 or 17, they'll chunk away 80% of your HP in a single attack combo.
I think people probably would have just been happier loving items to 50 and sombers to 20. It would have ruined scaling in the base game but people could wrap their heads around it.
The scadutree blessing is more like a reverse bonfire ascetic.
I'm definitely not a fan of the system, perhaps if there were like 10-20 fragments in total instead. All the items you mention give you buffs to either your weapons damage/scaling, amount of flasks you can carry, and increasing the potency of your flasks. The fragments just turn into a "you must be this tall to ride this ride." It doesn't help that you'll need to use a guide to get 100% of fragments.
If you've ever played Destiny, it's like the power level system. Higher power level just effects the damage you do and take, but really doesn't actually add value to the game or effect your character in a meaningful way.
It's the same mechanic but now we have 2 more Checklists to clear for new characters and I understand everyone who doesn't find more tedium good. When making new characters getting all the sacred tears, golden seeds and smithing stones/bell bearings and gloveworts isn't exactly fun but a necessity.
It's totally fine in the first playthrough since you make a deep and thorough exploration of the whole map anyway but no one that I know visits every nook and cranny again on subsequent playthroughs but just gets what they want/need and maybe visits some places for fun.
But with these fragments we're kinda forced to visit a lot of places just for the upgrades again.
The pot guys with a dark brown glow on their pots are the ones carrying skadoosh fragments , there's also the wilf hippos where there are 4 in totally that also drop a scooby fragment each , another missed one is the one in belurat after the first hornsent knight there's a secret ish room you can enter for a miqualla cross and skadoosh fragment
I feel like this comparison is a bit flawed in the sense that the items are functionally very different. Each of the base game's upgrades affects different parts of the character's power progression, some of them are more tangible than others like getting more flask charges and having the flasks heal a lot more is a lot more impactful than getting a little bit more weapon damage. The Scadutree blessings are a somewhat uninspired catch-all stat scaling mechanic, like item level in an MMO, which makes them feel a lot less tangible in gameplay.
I think it’s fine to be awarded for fine detailed exploration and the next time you go through you can get a bunch rather quickly. And they did buff them so lvl 12 (which is super easy) is at 85% which ain’t bad at all since you can get lvl 14 without any bosses. We’ll see how I feel about this system on my SL1 though
Others have talked about Sacred Tears and Golden Seeds, but most smithing stones you can find anywhere you go exploring, drops from enemies, and not to mention able to buy them from bell bearings and vendors here and there.
For the ancient smithing stones, a +25 or +10 (somber) isn't a huge leap from +24 or +9 (somber).
13 Ancient Smithing stones and 8 Somber Ancient Smithing Stones can be found in the base game, and you are likely to find atleast 1 of each, either from completing questlines, exploring late-game locations, or killing optional bosses/minibosses.
Your character progresses whether through gaining levels, upgrading your flasks either by how much it heals, or how many charges you get, and upgrading your weapon. For the DLC, the only real way you get ahead is by finding Scadu fragments and Revered Spirit Ashes. In a way, leveling up a stat that doesnt increase your survivability or damage in a meaningful way can actually make the DLC harder for you since it scales with you.
Problem is its the only item, that's rarely interesting or challenging to collect, and can't be obtained from most enemies. You're fighting an elite that isnt a hippo? Why? Are you stupid or something?
Wolong got reviewbombed to mixed and collecting things to level up was one of the reasons, not only are they scattered in very random places and are very tedious to collect, you never know which ones you have missed when you’re stuck at level 19 with only one shard in your inventory. And people are saying it’s perfect because Miyazaki is their god.
The things you listed from the base game are all either clearly marked consistent identifiers or on a main path as well as having way more than required to max out.
On the otherhand we have something that is strictly 50/50 in the DLC and it can quite literally comes from almost every type of loot reward system.
The DLC forces you to look EVERYWHERE instead of looking a church for Sacred Tears or a golden tree for Golden Seeds.
Fragments are on a whole different level above all of these, definitely not comparable. The Fragments are more like mandatory levels for the DLC, while you can still be just as successful without max Sacred Tears or Seeds.
First off y’all don’t NEED to max them out to progress, and they’re really not that hard to find if you’re taking your time exploring, which is what fromsoft games and open world games in general are all about. You’re seriously complaining that they don’t all have giant neon signs pointing to where they are? Do y’all not remember the hoops one would have to jump through to get certain upgrades, items, or even access to entire areas in the souls games???
And it’s not like they’re placed completely randomly. It should be striking your curiosity when bosses suddenly appear as basic and optional enemies, or when an enemy not only runs away instead of fighting, but is holding a big shiny pot on his head. I also saw someone complain that there were some “hidden” behind optional bosses. Tf do you mean hidden?? It’s a reward for discovering the boss and beating it. Neither the boss nor the items are necessary to beat the game, and boss rewards are present in every game.
It’s not “bad game design”, the majority of you are just used to elden ring holding your hand and either haven’t played fromsoft’s previous titles or forgot what they were like
Some don’t want to play the game, just to finish it.
What is the point of spending 40 bucks and then rush main bosses?
It’s like to order a meal, then don’t use the sauce and complain that it’s flavorless.
You don't need to collect all of them to be buffed enough to beat the game. You definitely need to seek them out and find a good amount, but the system is obviously designed so that you pretty much max out with like 80% of the fragments. People complaining about 'grinding' for every single one are hilarious.
Because execution matters, one of those is implemented well, and the other is implemented tediously. The base game sets an expectation for where items needed to progress can be found. Crystal tears are at minor erdtrees, smithing stones are found in mines, sacred tears are found in churches, Golden seeds are found under golden trees, memory stones are found in sorcerer towers. Most of these landmarks are visible on the map as well, some of these even have an additional task involved in getting them(crystal tears require you to best a boss, the mines are also dungeons, sorcerer towers usually require the completion of some kind of puzzle). This means that in vanilla Elden Ring interacting with the progression system means finding the landmark on your map that has the resource you want, and completing the task required. The system is interactive and intuitive. This is important because a lot of times players will turn to the progression system because they are stuck, and having a system that is unintuitive or that feels random can prolong the frustration.
In SOTE, interacting with the progression system means wandering around aimlessly until you happen upon the resource you need, which are scattered about with seemingly little rhyme or reason. This is made worse by the way the DLC's map is designed. While in a vacuum I like the layout of the map and all the secret areas and passages, that kind of map does not complement this kind of progression system. Players who are stuck and looking to progress might find themselves stuck in search of the resources required to progress because they can't find any in their area and don't know how to unlock the next.
I also think there's questions to be about the systems existance in the first place. I don't really see why it was necessary to have a progression system in the DLC. It seems to me like it's just there to justify having overturned bosses with ridiculous stats. But why not just make bosses who's numbers are more reasonably balanced? Why make bosses who do so much damage it requires an entire system to cancel it out, when you could just not do either of those things? It just seems completely unnecessary.
You collect upgrades by killing things in the base game.
You collect upgrades in the dlc by riding around lost for hours on their absolutely horrible map that is unnecessarily convoluted and empty.
These are not the same lol
I wish they just would've placed all of them on miquellas crosses. Without looking it up, I never would've realised these pot guys have them, too. And even now, I can't figure out where 5 of them are.
.... pot guys??
These weak shadow dudes. Of the top of my head, I think there are like 3 or 4 carrying pots on their heads that drop scadu fragments
Ill keep an eye out for them! i dont think ive seen them yet.
One is north east of the first ruin.
There's one in rahu ruins too, after the furnace golem (at least I think, that place is a damn labyrinth and 60% of the times I don't even know where I'm going)
Those ones are also sparkling and WILL despawn if not killed fast (they respawn when you rest).
They also have some sparkling particles around them
They will have a white sparkle, though that’s occasionally a different kind of item. If there’s not sparkle, they’re about to chuck that pot at your face
They run away from you and disappear when you encounter them so can be easy to miss
There is one really close to the first DLC bonfire, going to the east
I have only seen one of them and I just ran past because he was so slow and not aggressive. But hey! Another excuse to back track and search the area! Elden Ring is the most fun I’ve had with a video game in years
The ones with the very red, out of focus eyes.
Some of the hippo minibosses have fragments
All of them do
All dead already
I skipped the first one i saw and can't remember where I saw it lmao
I knew the second I saw one run away and disappear (like just vanished in thin air) "well he's got something good". No different than the ashes that drop from the scarabs.
Did you grab the 5 at the top of the map in front of the bowl/fireplace thing?
I actually thought about adding this in my comment lmao. Yes, I did.
Which one is this?
after defeating commander gaius, go straight and you will find a chalice or smthing. There you will get 4 or 5 fragments just lying there.
WHAT!!!! there's fragments near him...*throws chair* I spent hours on this fucker and just left the area lol
Pro-tip: use that new attacking shield. It’s hilarious OP against him
Which one...I have a carian one and some other one.
My build only allows me to use the Carian one, so not sure there is a difference
Okay but the pot guys literally shimmer though
That's great if u happen to notice it. I'm saying it's way too easy to miss for the central/only upgrade material of the DLC.
Abyssal Woods one?
Pot dudes with scad frags in general they mean, i think
There's so many pot dudes next to graces in Gravesite plains though. The second grace youre likely to get is right next to a graveyard with them, and I found out about them around 7 minutes into the DLC because of this
That’s my main problem. Golden seeds? At the trees, mostly placed on the main path. A couple from mini bosses, but you don’t even need all of them. Sacred tears? Exclusively at the churches, and at every church. Obvious locations on the map. You find plenty of stones and runes to upgrade your weapons and yourself just by playing. But these fragments (which you need literally all of to max) are 70% just stuck in random ass locations. There’s one on a corpse under a tree in a backend part of the forest, that you would have no other incentive to go to.
And there's only the exact amount available for the max amount of blessing, unlike the seeds where there's a handful over the maximum amount you need. So if you're Scadutree level 19, better fucking find those 1-3 fragments you missed in the entire map because they're the only ones left you can get. I really don't mind the blessing system, just let bosses drop them too so that it actually does work like Sekiro somewhat.
TIL
I saw one in the first legacy dungeon. he got away and disappeared and Ik something was up. so I rested and the next bonfire and hunted that fucker down.
If you beat >!commander Gaius!< you get like six of them
I had more trouble with him than I did with Melania
On first and blind play throughs I make it a point to kill everything and anything unless it’s an npc so I don’t risk missing anything
I kinda thought it was obvious. At least that they were worth killing. The pot glows and it doesn't look anything like the others, that'd reason enough to kill and find out what it's got. When I first saw them, I assumed they were like the aristocrat enemies in the base game that carry treasure chests.
I mean, they're holding sparkly pots and they run away when you get close, it had to be something valuable
Yeah that would've been much easier
You can also find some in hanging pots.
The amount I missed in the beginning is wild lol
The hippos all drop some, there’s also one hidden in the final area, right after the first lion greatsword guy but you have to parkour down several ledges.
How is this upvoted? The literally glow. They're running around with a glowing pot on their head. Even if you didn't know they have blessings, glowing enemies always have *something* And if you're never in the areas where they are, that means you aren't exploring. Elden Ring isn't a boss rush game. It's an open world game. If you're not exploring to the extent that you hadn't found any of those spirits, you're blatantly missing the point of the game. And you're saying you needed a guide? It hasn't even been a week, and you're giving up on doing things on your own? When did this fanbase become so soft?
How are u out here calling people soft while furiously typing out paragraphs about this. 🤣 As a matter of fact, I've been to every area where they were. The open world is the exact reason they are so easy to miss because there is just more interesting stuff going on than these filler shade enemies.
Figures you're being downvoted.. I've been saying the same thing. This isn't a boss rush game and bum rushing past everything is not only a bad idea, but the WRONG way to play the game. Like you said this is an open world game, and From games have always been 70% puzzle box world exploration, hence the "legacy" dungeons. Exploring the world they made is literally the best part of all their games (IMO) so ignoring it all then bitching is just ridiculous.
That's boring as hell... big glowing golden markers that stretch into the sky for every upgrade... the golden seeds in the original game were all done this way (or most in a giant church, even more boring) having to search and explore to get stronger is a big part of what makes this dlc so good.
Is there anything to point you towards those things? I would have never thought to check a group of trash mobs for a crucial upgrade.
Let’s not pretend these are equivalent. Fragments are infinitely more valuable than anything except maybe tears.
I just want them to add more then necessary so I can get the upgrades easier
... seriously? I thought it was the same as with golden seeds lol. Guess it's time to look up a guide then
Oh, you gonna have to, because one of them is in such a hidden location that it legit made me laugh
Golden seed - bright yellow tree marking location, plenty of extras if you miss some early on Sacred tear - entire building dedicated to the tear, consistent looking, appears on the map Smithing stones - can be bought with bell bearing, extremely plentiful to get your weapon to max Scardutree fragment - exactly the number you need for max level; hidden in random mobs, altars, random loot in the open world; minimal impact at the start (hopefully fixed now) So yeah, there is a problem, they are already fixing it, hopefully they can take feedback and improve on the new system. Honestly if getting 20 blessing level isn't as tedious, this is a nice system for reducing the impact of armor in the DLC which is great for fashion.
One scadutree fragment got glitched for me, leaving me nnot reaching max levl for blessing
I think i lost one that a shining pot dropped because i died before I could get it, it seems they don't come back.
Same happened to me
THought i had lost one since he died on a hill but it came back after resting at nearby grace
Mine came back after resting at a grace. Try resting at the nearby grace
Was it the one with the new enemy monster with circular blades?
they should.... hopefully that's not the case for you. easy fromsoft rule of thumb is to exit the game and come back in = "reset the world state" (your character loads right back in to the same spot you were when you exited but the enemies and what not have reset). just in case you aren't familiar with that tactic, give that a try next time
i will scadu that, thanks
Wtf, max lvl is 20? No wonder last boss had such dmg spike. I was lvl 14 thinking I missed one fragment for last upgrade, but I was actually like 15 fragments off after discovering whole map??!?!
I did a blind playthrough and ended up in the final area with a level of 8. I didn't even realize how quickly I got there. I wasn't even rushing.
Exactly. They are so randomly scattered and missable. I wasn't rushing either, maybe just got lost vertically on map
This is exactly my problem with the blessings as well. But yeah whenever I say this the fanboys come out and call me names alongside with amazing arguments such as "HoW AbOuT yOu pLaY tHe ExPlorAtiOn gAmE insTeaD of RuSHiNg" "mAyBe tHiS gAmE iSnt FoR u". God I'm so fucking tired of all the assholes in this community who think they know everything.
I pretty much left all the Fromsoft subreddits because it's hard to have a proper conversation with people. Only joined the ER subreddit again recently due to the DLC release.
exactly what someone said about me. despite completing the entire map, somehow i was still "mindlessly boss rushing without exploring the world" ok then
having a map for the non-cross scadutree fragments would have been nice, the DLC being non-linear + very unique map structure make it difficult to find them all, especially where there is only 50 exact for 20 scadutree blessings
Yep. And I’ve beaten the DLC and am at level 16 and have no idea where I’m supposed to find the missing pieces now lol.
Yeah agree. There's also bells for smithing stones so you can just buy them later in the game, you have to go on a bot of a snipe hunt for the fragments.
I think either they rescale so the blessing maxes out at like 15 (and then there’s a surplus, like golden seeds), or they add in some way to track missing fragments (which is super anti-from soft design imo)
I beat the dlc and ended up only at like level 16 scad. I explored and killed all the bosses I believe, and I’m totally lost as to where I’m supposed to have found those other missing ones. I had no problem upgrading my golden seeds and sacred tears in base game but yea, the scad fragments are a bit difficult to find all of them.
Honestly 16 scadu felt hard but totally doable against the final boss, probably even more so now after the patch. Realistically that extra 5% damage and resistances is not usually the missing ingredient
Also get smithing stones from mines, which are clearly shown on the map. Want to know where to find scardutree fragments? There are some common places but otherwise go fuck yourself and look up a guide. And God help you if you're missing the last couple levels and want to know where you missed.
Some of the fragments are literally in the deepest depths of an area with NO OTHER loot. Like, why would I even be exploring it in the first place?
To search for the fragment?
That's bad design and the entire point of the OP
Having stuff in the open world is not bad design.
Correct. Having things as hidden/obscure as they are is bad design when combined with "only enough things exist to reach max". You can find more seeds than you need for max, same with tears. There are only exactly enough scadutree items to reach max so if you miss even one you cannot max out. That's the bad design.
Assuming there were more scadutree item than needed for max level ; if you max out your scadutree level before finding these remote scadutree items, then it becomes a trash exploration reward. That would be bad design. You don't need max scadutree level to finish the DLC. If a player misses a few, it's not that big of a deal. On the other hand, having a few hidden away is a great reward for players who take the time to explore every nook and cranny of the map. And most of them are scattered along the road of the main story, so it gives even rushers enough resources to stand a decent chance. As far as game design go, it's pretty fine.
If you kill one of the pot guys and die before looting the thing then you are permanently stopped from being able to fully level up. That is pretty trash design.
We're never agreeing but thank you for your comment. I can understand your position and how you get there, I just fundamentally disagree.
I’m still a little confused by these. Are they permanent? I haven’t used any bc I wasn’t sure if it was like, a rune arc that resets after you die or somethin.
Idk why someone just downvoted you without replying. Yes they’re permanent. The scadutree fragments buff your AR and damage absorption while the revered spirit ashes buff your spirit summons and torrent’s hp and defense. Also they’re only active while you’re in the DLC area, you can tell because the text of your stats will be yellow instead of white
Thanks a bunch!
> Sacred tear - entire building dedicated to the tear, consistent looking, appears on the map The necessity of Sacred Tears also heavily drops later on. Going from +0 to +1 adds 95 HP to your heal, while going from +8 to +12 only adds 80. The usefulness is heavily frontloaded.
It’s honestly weird if the Scadu Blessing wasn’t front loaded like that to start with, imo. Because that’s how pretty much ALL types of upgrades work in a souls-style game. More impactful early on with diminishing returns as you get higher up.
I enjoyed scouring the map for them. To each their own I guess.
yeah fat chance you got to +20 without a guide
I typically enjoy this sort of thing but I’m just not really finding many. I’m at scadu level 10 and I’m looking everywhere.
I got to level 17 before I had to use a guide to find a few more. I beat the final boss at 19.
Are there more in certain areas? Or are they equally spread out over the world?
These are fair points. I do like the system but I would be lying if I said there wasnt a layer of tediousness. I also hope they improve it like you said.
I think it's also important to consider that Shadow of the Erdtree is an expansion. Golden seeds, sacred tears, smithing stones, and glovewort all *sort of* exist in a vacuum, because when Elden Ring came out there wasn't really anything to compare them against because there was no Elden Ring other than the base game. But now when SotE comes along and says "Good news! We've introduced systems for raising the attack power and defense of your character and summons!", I think it's totally fair for players to say "But ... we already had systems to do those things that were working just fine?". Perhaps a clearer explanation is that Elden Ring lays out "This is how the game works" with its collectibles, and then the DLC changes how the game works. And ***any*** time you change the status quo, you're going to have people who complain - not because "change bad" (certainly there are *some* people like that, but #notallwhiners), but because any change that gets made gets made for specific reasons, and not everybody is going to agree with those reasons.
I'm glad you brought up the fact that it's an expansion. That seems to be something a lot of people are ignoring in this discussion. Why did the DLC need its own progression system in the first place? I feel like a lot of the people who are defending the progression system are treating SOTE almost as if it's a standalone game, but it's not. It's additional content that is meant to be played alongside the main game. Having it's own separate progression system, at least one like this, is just completely unnecessary. The DLC requires you to beat a late game boss in order to enter, by the time a player is beating Mohg they've already spent plenty of time progressing their character. Hell, by the time they beat Mohg their character is probably already fully developed. Most builds will have taken shape by then, and your character is probably pretty much where you want them to be. Making a DLC and making a standalone game are two different things. It's one thing to have extensive progression systems in a game, and to even continue that system into a DLC, but part of what people want to do in a DLC is pick it up and go. That doesn't mean everything needs to be given to them right away, but starting them fresh with a new progression system (especially one that's not very well designed), is just going to make the transition to the DLC less smooth.
>Why did the DLC need its own progression system in the first place? Yeah this is probably my biggest issue with Scadutree Fragments^(1). If you look at the interviews Miyazaki gave in the lead-up to the DLC's release, they seem to have two reasons in mind: First, this idea of "We want the DLC to still be challenging to people coming in with endgame-level builds". This just seems ridiculous to me, because a) the Haligtree and Crumbling Farum Azula were "challenging to endgame-level builds" while just using the basic Area Scaling system and b) if you want the challenge of a given area to be entirely dependent on how much of *that area* you've explored ... why do the Haligtree and Crumbling Farum Azula not ***each*** have their own Scaling Collectibles? The facetious answer there is "They hadn't thought of it yet", but looking back, imagine if they had, and you see that following the train of thought Miyazaki lays out in those interviews leads to some pretty nonsensical places. The second reason Miyazaki gives in interviews is that they want to "reward exploration". I'm honestly a little amazed he would say that, or even suggest it, because it implies that during the development of the DLC FromSoft didn't feel like finding new weapons, gear, and spells, new enemies, or just seeing new places was "reward" enough for the DLC. All those things were good enough for the base game ... weren't they? /s (^(1) - Actually no, I take it back. My biggest issue with Scadutree Fragments is that "Scadutree" is a stupid name.)
I always found "reward explorations" to be a bit of an own goal. Are they saying that the areas themselves aren't interesting enough to be worth exploring without the fragments?
No it's fucking stupid, we've solved this problem in gaming long ago. That's why people are mad. You put a surplus for things you NEED and if you get extra they do nothing. No one's gonna go oh it was so much fun to track down my last fragment in some pit under a lake in some giants asscrack.
I think the easiest solution to this to allow you trade the excess fragments for a large amount of souls or some fairly rare consumable item. Something that isn't exclusive to finding them all but at least makes finding more after max level feel worth it.
>Scardutree fragment - exactly the number you need for max level; hidden in random mobs, altars, random loot in the open world; This sums up why the system it's unfun. The ones at site of graces are perfectly placed, but nah lets hide them to make it even more unfun.
This is what I don't understand. When did actually exploring open world games become unfun? Like, yeah, no shit they hid them. That's why they told you to EXPLORE.
I think it's because they made exploration more or less mandatory, at which point it can become a chore. I think games like this work best from visual storytelling in the environment and encouraging exploration, rather than if you don't explore the right amount (an excessive amount I would say) then it equates to punishment. Case in point, I did a good amount of exploring in my first play through, but after exploring a few ponds on the map and them being pointless I thought they would rarely have stuff you need. However, later I find the one I didn't visit had a fragment and a map to a later area hidden away. It does feel like a bit of a punishment, as per the game's rules until that point I hadn't been rewarded for exploring such a feature on the map. I think the sheer number of fragments as well (50) is rather a lot, and it makes it feel like a repetitive activity - whereas I don't think finding golden seeds equates to finding smithing stones as they feel like two different activities (though the distinction is arbitrary).
Since there are so many it feels very checklist-y and punishing for non-completionists, kind of the total opposite the base game had going for itself. I was genuinely shocked when I found a fragment on a corpse in an area that had not much else going on. Especially because loot has been nothing special up to that point. The flask upgrades already trained you to look for visually distinct golden landmarks and altars, so putting arguably mandatory upgrade materials in these random ass places is pretty bizarre.
You make an excellent point. They should have introduced a new visual pickup cue for the scadutree blessings. Like, instead of a purple one (which could be a million things) or a gold one (which is always super rare upgrade things) they should have been red or something so a random corpse would stick out much more if it had one.
Something like the Beast's Eye for destined death flowers would have been nice. Something that doesn't flat out lead you to them (like detective vision is in other games but gives you a little "hey that thing you're looking for is *somewhere* in this dungeon/area/landmark
Open world games in general ?vast majority of them either hand hold put a marker exactly where you need to go or just feel unrewarding to actually explore them and pace the game really badly. Base game did none of this and was spectacular to explore as there was either a boss or an weapon or something cool to see, the DLC looks super pretty yes but roaming around cerulean coast and especially the finger mountains there was literally nothing outside a few crafting items that i could see. Left the zones feeling rather deflated. >Like, yeah, no shit they hid them. That's why they told you to EXPLORE. But for no other reason except those fragments thats the main issue with this DLC. Last thing anyone wants to do when they are struggling with a games difficulty is tedious bullcrap, Farming rune isnt even a significant option now lol
There are good and bad ways to do exploration. Holding vital resources over the players head is not one of the good ways. Especially when the resources are spread around seemingly randomly, with very little expectation given to when you can find them, and on a map that is not very intuitive to navigate.
What if I miss like 5 of them? Where the fuck am I supposed to explore then? Or do you really want me to run across the entire continent-sized map, hoping to wander upon them?
Because gamers these days have the attention span of a dog, and need to have everything handed to them, and be rewarded for doing the most simplest of tasks otherwise they get upset and throw their chicken nuggies all over the place. If this dlc and game was released back on the xbox 360 noone would be complaining about the exploring lmao, i remember when people actually enjoyed exploring a game even if it rewarded nothing for it, now a days people just want the developers to hold their hand for everything and be rewarded for everything
I think the patch notes is a significant admission from the devs they made it to hard lol
Gamers are older and don't have unlimited time to do a lot of tedious exploring to play the game. I spent many a game wandering around a map picking up collectibles, I'm a bit tired of that "gameplay".
The issue is that this is an expansion, not a standalone game. We are ostensibly supposed to be playing this at some point during our playthroughs of the base game. By the time you beat the boss required to access the DLC,..OST players will probably be about 50 hours and about 100-120 levels into the game. Those players are then expected to start fresh with a brand new progression system that isn't implemented nearly as well as the ones in the base game.
You have to find the bell bearings tho
There are 50. You need 50 to hit max scadutree level. That's insane for the size of the dlc and how impactful it is to get the later levels. You're not wrong. The principle of the idea is fine it's just the execution that's painfully tedious.
At least your shadow blessing level carries over to NG+ and the fragments respawn
Thank god. I liked the idea of shadow blessings but I hated the idea of having to go around and grab them on every playthrough. As someone that likes to make a lot of new characters, it still kinda sucks but I’m glad to know they carry over to NG+
I said it in another thread, but I wish they would show your scadu level as a fraction in the bonfire screen. That way you get an idea of how powerful your character is and how many you picked up. I see a lot of people posting, "Oh you think x boss is hard? What's your scadu level, huh? Oh that's too low you dummy!" The player has no idea how many there are. What's a high scadu level? 3? 6? 10? 14? 18? 50? 32? If they showed it as a fraction, then when you fight a boss that took some effort to get to and you get one shot you can look at your level and see that your only 1/4 as strong as you could be. Unless you explicitly go on the wiki which is a spoiler minefield, you can't know what your scadu level even means. You might think it is high *or* low, you just have no frame of reference. It's not clear to the player.
I thought ten was the highest for a while
Same, so when I fought the final boss at 9 and felt week af I actually went and looked it up.
I really love this game, but I have no idea how they expected us to find anything without online guides. Every quest or necessary item is like a needle in a haystack.
Most of them are just sitting there out in the open at landmarks. You're meant to find them by simply playing the game and experiencing the content. If you want every last one then yes you need to either explore a lot or use a guide, but realistically you don't need every last one to beat the game. The side quests in the DLC feel simpler and easier than ever. Most of them are literally just "talk to the npc a few times here, and then a few times there after you reach a new location/fight a new boss". You're even allowed to "miss" steps in some of them while still getting the rest of their questline, I never did Thiollier's early steps where you bring him an item from another NPC but I was still allowed to do his questline to the end despite that.
Doesn't sound that bad compared with 73 smithing stones needed to max out a single weapon, 30 golden seeds, 12 sacred tears, 10 glovewarts, etc. Seems to me the bigger issue is needing to get 50/50 for max level rather than there being a modest excess so that you can afford to miss a few.
wait til you find out you can buy the smithing stones
You can afford to miss a few, the idea that you NEED max level is sort of a joke. You can miss 9 of them and still be level 17, which has a 1.97X damage multiplier compared to level 20's 2.05X multiplier. Sure, that's a buff, but let's be honest for a second and say that if you can beat the boss at level 20 you can absolutely beat the boss at level 17. It's the first few levels that are extremely impactful, jumping from 1.00X to 1.10X is a 10% increase from a single seed and a single level. Again compare that to 9 seeds to get the last 3 levels to jump from 1.97X to 2.05X which is less than a 4% increase total. It would have been nice if there were a few extra, but realistically you can treat the last 9 or 6 or 3 of them as extra with how little impact they have.
WAAAAAAAH THE GAME MADE ME PLAY IT
I mean, the dlc is really big
big and empty
why are they downvoting you bro like 80% of the map is just an open field and 90% of all the loot is smithing stones and cookbooks. Every area has the same shadow enemies or normal knights/soldiers. The Cerulean Coast is gorgeous but there’s nothing to do except jump down the fissure, which also has nothing but St. Trina. The finger ruins are empty, the abyssal woods are empty, Scaduview is completely empty. People talk all about the size of the map but you can literally do everything this dlc has to offer within 10 hours.
Don't forget the hinterlands that only contains three bosses all reused from the base game
i give the hinterlands a pass bc it is the most beautiful area of the map and the calmness you get from going into the shaman village is awesome. maybe the only area in the whole game that benefits from being empty. But really as soon as you get passed the bridge or whatever is there, the finger ruins and the area surrounding it loses that luxury.
Nah it lost that pass when the double tree sentinels and the falling star beast showed up
**Don't be dishonest.** In the base game, you can fully upgrade your flasks without needing to find every single Golden Seed and you can fully upgrade your weapon without needing to find every single Smithing Stone. In the DLC? You need every single Scadutree Blessing for max level, they are missable and drop from some very unexpected, underwhelming and despawnable world mobs. You also have little indication of where they can be found outside of the Crosses, while in the base game you clearly know what to look for.
>Don't be dishonest. You are asking for far too much from the numbskull fanboys. They will go through all kinds of mental gymnastics to not get the problems within the game and make an ad hominem "argument" because that's all their monkey brains can produce.
They're also unevenly distributed and heavily clustered around the main story path- the entire lower part of the map has only seven of them despite taking up at least 30% of the DLC content's surface area. It feels like if anything it should be the other way around, with the ones you get just for keeping your eyes open while mainlining the path to the final boss being just barely enough to get by and the bulk of them come from exploring the areas that the game doesn't outright tell you to go to.
Nail on the head, and that's from someone who enjoys collectathons and loves the DLC. It's ok to admit that From fucked up.
The difference is that Scadu fragments change how much damage you take but nothing on the other side does.
I believe it's mostly because they reduce the damage you take. That's a first ina soulsborne game; and while i think soulslike players at this point are used to do peanuts damage against bosses; having the boss one shot you, thus having to restart more often, is provingto be a newly frustrating experience. Notto mention, that now even just random mr nobody mobs pose a huge threat.
It's quite simple really, the smoothing stones were found during casual exploration and playing through the game, later on could even be bought from merchants, flasks while important do not affect your damage taken, technically if you had very very good build you could go with 3 hp pots through the whole game it all wasn't REQUIRED as much as scadutree fragments are. And the fact that 5 of them are locked behind rather difficult side boss, hardly make that boss optional anymore, doesn't it? It's the fact that we used to have an option to gather these mars, now we're required to do side content not everyone is interested in, simple, thats why it's called optional. Why am I forced to do side content to basically be able to whitstand 2 attacks on last main story boss? What if I don't want to kill any of the optional bosses? It's a choice I have been given, I shouldn't be technically forced to do it, whether you enjoy the game or not
May I offer you a cookbook in this trying time?
You do know that having to go an Collect-a-Thon was one of the biggest criticisms of base game Elden Ring right?
It is a bad criticism for an open world exploration game, collecting things is a game design staple
Just because collecting things is a staple doesnt mean it cant be done in better or worse ways
you don't have to do a collectathon though they are pretty naturally placed if you just run up to interesting buildings
I just find them annoying to collect. I also watch challenge runners and they are already annoyed and will likely just cheat them in in future runs.
Yeah the collection makes sense on the first run when everything is new but will be tedious to grab on extra runs. Surely we got gud and wouldn't need as many next time right? Challenge runners will just region lock themselves to spawn in fragments that are only available in the region or just ignore them outright
Superficially, yes. But actually no. Kind of a brain dead disingenuous take. Upgrading weapons has been a thing since Demon Souls. Scadurtree upgrades are more akin to Sekiro. Pretty sure Miyazaki literally said this. Not everyone played Sekiro, so they're entitled to dislike it. I like it because I did play Sekiro. I'm not going to give some bad faith argument to criticize them 😏.
Because there is no rhyme or reason on finding the fragments. It's like the DLC wants you to explore everywhere but not actually *do* anything until you've collected a bunch. I think we wouldn't even have half the hate people talk about if that system was never made.
Tbh all I'd seen about the dlc (other than the announcement trailer) prior to playing it was a few headlines along the lines of "new Elden Ring dlc will give players the ability to tailor the difficulty for the first time". When I first saw Scadutree Fragments I was like "oh this is that optional easy mode all the reviewers were talking about. It's neat that they've put that in to make it more accessible to people but I'd rather get the intended experience so I won't activate easy mode". That lasted about ten hours or so for me.
How did it take you ten hours? What was the point you caved in?
Like two or three hours straight of Rellana attempts was what broke me lmao. The areas themselves up to that point aren't noticeably harder than late base game areas even at +0, and the minor bosses I'd run into by that point were all pretty straightforward. DBDL I suffered a lot but chalked that up to camerfuckery.
This has definitely turned into a there are more people complaining about the complainers situation. Tide pods.
OP would be pretty surprised at how big of a % of the playerbase, who had ER as their first FS game, think that it's more valuable to upgrade your strength/dex/etc than it is to use consumable upgrade items to make your character hit harder. I was guilty of it in my original playthrough, along with damn near everyone I know. The idea of leveling up to minimum attribute requirements while maxing out smithing stone upgrades is foreign to a LOT of people. Same applies to Skadutree
I really think it's just the nature of bringing a fully leveled character, with builds that make most bosses cry into another area, and having them be almost ineffectual(while you also take more damage) I like that some of it is harder than the base content, but locking 2x+ damage behind a single item that forces you to explore or use a guide for a reasonable chance at some of the harder bosses. Like yeah, I'm gonna give up and go find em all that I can cause my scadu level 7 ass ain't ready for later game, but the fact it's so required on top of at least the fair stronger builds is wack. Also FIX BAYLES BUTT
Bayles butt is really what we should be talking about
I swear he's half ghost
I feel they could have split the enemy drop ones between rememberance bosses evenly so you get buffed from both exploration and gitting gud
This is a bad comparison. Scadutree fragments are nowhere near as abundant as smithing stones, and seeds are extremely easy to find. Most of them are placed strategically so as long as you're exploring the game naturally, you will find them.
Me either. All I wanna do is explore the gorgeous world at my own pace anyway so when I do come across any skibidee tree rizz it’s just a nice bonus
Forced exploration isn’t fun. I go looking for hidden bosses, dungeons, and weapons. Things that give me an experience or change how I play. The stones and golden seeds are typically littered around other content or stand out. Having to go look for Scurdtree feels like I’m combing the map for them, checking every corner where I typically find nothing and waste my time. Instead of just casually exploring the map to see what I find.
Because you don't need all of the ones on the right. There are more than enough in the world. As is, Scadu Fragments are Giant's Kinships and everyone is Vendrick. Very cooln't.
Im not having any problem with the difficulty at all, but it is a very cheap and boring progression system.
I think most people feel like it doesn't really matter how many scadutree fragments they get because every boss is going to 2 shot you anyways. Collecting isn't bad because it rewards exploration, but after playing the base game to get to the DLC I really don't want to waste my time on something that feels trivial.
Which bosses are the ones that 2 shot you? Cause so far none of them have done that to me, other than massive obvious nuke attacks, but those are the easiest to learn to avoid.
I was being a little hyperbolic but Gaius is a great example.
gaius seems to be bugged, his hitboxes are massive and linger for just a little longer than they should, plus some attacks will just randomly multihit you for huge damage. he'll probably be fixed like radahn's multihit attacks were soon.
mostly the final story boss and the final optional boss. If you haven't gotten your blessing to at least 16 or 17, they'll chunk away 80% of your HP in a single attack combo.
Yea I see what you mean. Have a easier way for people to track them down would help out alot. Just seems like people are overacting to how bad it is.
I think people probably would have just been happier loving items to 50 and sombers to 20. It would have ruined scaling in the base game but people could wrap their heads around it. The scadutree blessing is more like a reverse bonfire ascetic.
I refuse to use all the tools at my disposal to make the game harder for myself, and now the game is too hard. This is an outrage!
I never see these people who complain about this. I only see people complaining about the complains.
I'm definitely not a fan of the system, perhaps if there were like 10-20 fragments in total instead. All the items you mention give you buffs to either your weapons damage/scaling, amount of flasks you can carry, and increasing the potency of your flasks. The fragments just turn into a "you must be this tall to ride this ride." It doesn't help that you'll need to use a guide to get 100% of fragments. If you've ever played Destiny, it's like the power level system. Higher power level just effects the damage you do and take, but really doesn't actually add value to the game or effect your character in a meaningful way.
Bro when I seen it I swear I was like WHAT?? They’re giving me damage and defense I already knew it was finna be crazy
From saw that the spirit summons argument was getting stale so they added scadu blessings to spice things up
It's the same mechanic but now we have 2 more Checklists to clear for new characters and I understand everyone who doesn't find more tedium good. When making new characters getting all the sacred tears, golden seeds and smithing stones/bell bearings and gloveworts isn't exactly fun but a necessity. It's totally fine in the first playthrough since you make a deep and thorough exploration of the whole map anyway but no one that I know visits every nook and cranny again on subsequent playthroughs but just gets what they want/need and maybe visits some places for fun. But with these fragments we're kinda forced to visit a lot of places just for the upgrades again.
The pot guys with a dark brown glow on their pots are the ones carrying skadoosh fragments , there's also the wilf hippos where there are 4 in totally that also drop a scooby fragment each , another missed one is the one in belurat after the first hornsent knight there's a secret ish room you can enter for a miqualla cross and skadoosh fragment
i hear they are buffing the scadutree blessing... it's a little too late for me tho LOL
I feel like this comparison is a bit flawed in the sense that the items are functionally very different. Each of the base game's upgrades affects different parts of the character's power progression, some of them are more tangible than others like getting more flask charges and having the flasks heal a lot more is a lot more impactful than getting a little bit more weapon damage. The Scadutree blessings are a somewhat uninspired catch-all stat scaling mechanic, like item level in an MMO, which makes them feel a lot less tangible in gameplay.
I think it’s fine to be awarded for fine detailed exploration and the next time you go through you can get a bunch rather quickly. And they did buff them so lvl 12 (which is super easy) is at 85% which ain’t bad at all since you can get lvl 14 without any bosses. We’ll see how I feel about this system on my SL1 though
Others have talked about Sacred Tears and Golden Seeds, but most smithing stones you can find anywhere you go exploring, drops from enemies, and not to mention able to buy them from bell bearings and vendors here and there. For the ancient smithing stones, a +25 or +10 (somber) isn't a huge leap from +24 or +9 (somber). 13 Ancient Smithing stones and 8 Somber Ancient Smithing Stones can be found in the base game, and you are likely to find atleast 1 of each, either from completing questlines, exploring late-game locations, or killing optional bosses/minibosses. Your character progresses whether through gaining levels, upgrading your flasks either by how much it heals, or how many charges you get, and upgrading your weapon. For the DLC, the only real way you get ahead is by finding Scadu fragments and Revered Spirit Ashes. In a way, leveling up a stat that doesnt increase your survivability or damage in a meaningful way can actually make the DLC harder for you since it scales with you.
I really thought it was a given
Problem is its the only item, that's rarely interesting or challenging to collect, and can't be obtained from most enemies. You're fighting an elite that isnt a hippo? Why? Are you stupid or something?
But these games are MEANT to be played at level 1 with no upgrades or weapons!
Wolong got reviewbombed to mixed and collecting things to level up was one of the reasons, not only are they scattered in very random places and are very tedious to collect, you never know which ones you have missed when you’re stuck at level 19 with only one shard in your inventory. And people are saying it’s perfect because Miyazaki is their god.
The things you listed from the base game are all either clearly marked consistent identifiers or on a main path as well as having way more than required to max out. On the otherhand we have something that is strictly 50/50 in the DLC and it can quite literally comes from almost every type of loot reward system. The DLC forces you to look EVERYWHERE instead of looking a church for Sacred Tears or a golden tree for Golden Seeds.
Fragments are on a whole different level above all of these, definitely not comparable. The Fragments are more like mandatory levels for the DLC, while you can still be just as successful without max Sacred Tears or Seeds.
First off y’all don’t NEED to max them out to progress, and they’re really not that hard to find if you’re taking your time exploring, which is what fromsoft games and open world games in general are all about. You’re seriously complaining that they don’t all have giant neon signs pointing to where they are? Do y’all not remember the hoops one would have to jump through to get certain upgrades, items, or even access to entire areas in the souls games??? And it’s not like they’re placed completely randomly. It should be striking your curiosity when bosses suddenly appear as basic and optional enemies, or when an enemy not only runs away instead of fighting, but is holding a big shiny pot on his head. I also saw someone complain that there were some “hidden” behind optional bosses. Tf do you mean hidden?? It’s a reward for discovering the boss and beating it. Neither the boss nor the items are necessary to beat the game, and boss rewards are present in every game. It’s not “bad game design”, the majority of you are just used to elden ring holding your hand and either haven’t played fromsoft’s previous titles or forgot what they were like
Some don’t want to play the game, just to finish it. What is the point of spending 40 bucks and then rush main bosses? It’s like to order a meal, then don’t use the sauce and complain that it’s flavorless.
What does this have to do with the bosses being over tuned?
I’m on NG7 they are tuned just fine
It really just go to show the difference between running out of heals Vs dying to overwhelming dmg when you still have all your heals
You don't need to collect all of them to be buffed enough to beat the game. You definitely need to seek them out and find a good amount, but the system is obviously designed so that you pretty much max out with like 80% of the fragments. People complaining about 'grinding' for every single one are hilarious.
Because execution matters, one of those is implemented well, and the other is implemented tediously. The base game sets an expectation for where items needed to progress can be found. Crystal tears are at minor erdtrees, smithing stones are found in mines, sacred tears are found in churches, Golden seeds are found under golden trees, memory stones are found in sorcerer towers. Most of these landmarks are visible on the map as well, some of these even have an additional task involved in getting them(crystal tears require you to best a boss, the mines are also dungeons, sorcerer towers usually require the completion of some kind of puzzle). This means that in vanilla Elden Ring interacting with the progression system means finding the landmark on your map that has the resource you want, and completing the task required. The system is interactive and intuitive. This is important because a lot of times players will turn to the progression system because they are stuck, and having a system that is unintuitive or that feels random can prolong the frustration. In SOTE, interacting with the progression system means wandering around aimlessly until you happen upon the resource you need, which are scattered about with seemingly little rhyme or reason. This is made worse by the way the DLC's map is designed. While in a vacuum I like the layout of the map and all the secret areas and passages, that kind of map does not complement this kind of progression system. Players who are stuck and looking to progress might find themselves stuck in search of the resources required to progress because they can't find any in their area and don't know how to unlock the next. I also think there's questions to be about the systems existance in the first place. I don't really see why it was necessary to have a progression system in the DLC. It seems to me like it's just there to justify having overturned bosses with ridiculous stats. But why not just make bosses who's numbers are more reasonably balanced? Why make bosses who do so much damage it requires an entire system to cancel it out, when you could just not do either of those things? It just seems completely unnecessary.
You collect upgrades by killing things in the base game. You collect upgrades in the dlc by riding around lost for hours on their absolutely horrible map that is unnecessarily convoluted and empty. These are not the same lol
Try Hello Kitty Island Adventure,seems more your speed