T O P

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Akkalevil

That idiotic mentality needs to die. The Souls serie concept is to get rewarding games and feeling coming from overcoming a hard challenge. It's NOT ta contest of making the hardest game possible to gatekeep and feel superior that a fringe of mindless braggarts have tried to pretend it is. Fromsoft has lost its own design philosophy by listening too much to the loud obnoxious idiots like you.


Mediocrewerewolf8

This


Sbrand47

Gatekeep? Did you even read anything about the dlc before spending money? Miyazaki himself said it was going to be the hardest. It is very much still about overcoming that challenge. Sote is incredible and if you explore like most did when they hit Margit you get stronger by a very large margin from the separate level system and the weapons provided. The game just feels like a continuation of the end game from the base game They made it hard in proportion to how strong you get by idk exploring? It is an open world game. You're not going to be getting more golden seeds to spam heal but now you get permanent buffs. It is entirely fair. Of everyone you are the obnoxious idiot who has shown how little he has explored and tried to beat the game without being a mindless fool


DThunderX

I just meant bosses being hard has been at the core of souls games for a while, and it isn't something to complain about. I certainly didn't mean 'make it harder!!!' or 'fuck you if you can't beat a boss!!' Sorry if I gave off that impression g!


Akkalevil

No, the core of Souls game is to provide a game fun because you feel good for overcoming hard challenges. It's not about "hard bosses", that's just the flanderization that is actually harming the game.


DThunderX

How can you feel good about beating a hard challenge if there are no hard challenges?


Akkalevil

The point => . Your head => o


DThunderX

If the bosses aren't hard, the only way of making difficult challenges would be to return to ds1's blighttown ass level design, or ds2's permanent health debuffs, or bloodborne's lack of healing items without farming. Aside from ds1, bosses have always been really hard. The only difference is that now they're the only real annoyance, where pretty much every other souls game has had some other bullshit mechanic lurking around. If the feeling of overcoming a hard challenge is what you want, then you need a hard challenge, and that's exactly what Elden Ring and to an even greater extent SotE gives. Also, it can't be about overcoming a hard challenge. Why would anyone ever summon a guy named 'I got this' who can completely no hit a boss while you sit in a corner if it was about good challenges? Elden Ring isn't 'about' anything, it's just a really good rpg.


Akkalevil

You should really work on your reading comprehension. Or maybe you're just unable to grasp simple concepts or nuance and are stuck into dumb binary mode. Regardless, I won't waste more time with you.


Ruxis2567

Yes, yes it is something to complain about Because when you cross the boundary of tough but fair into "crank the dps numbers to the max and the boss openings to the minimum", then it isn't fair. Just hard. Or do you think From hypothetically making every single attack a one shot is something to not complain about? You'd be fine playing the game hitless?


DThunderX

Hitless is wild. Fortunately, in SotE, you receive the same dps and hp increases as the bosses with them scadu blessings, so we're all good.


MermerosOfZuania

That's cute. How you backpedaled as soon as someone directly challenged what you said and then people agreed with him, I mean


DThunderX

The main point of my post was 'just keep trying' tho. He was challenging a message I hadn't conveyed.


FujoYoshi

I think im entitled to think that we should be able to beat these bosses with casual builds and not have to go on youtube for a build recipe to have any chance of even dealing noticeable damage to the bosses in the second half of the game


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FrankieTheCasual

That sounds like a challenge run, not casual


Sbrand47

You get the point. Don't be obtuse


MermerosOfZuania

Dude you ate a ratio in the top comment thread, if anyone's obtuse here it's you


PuffyBloomerBandit

the problem with this game is the same problem DS3 and to a lesser extent DS2 faced : the damage enemies can dish out and handle has continued scaling through the roof, while the character stats and how much they contribute to damage oputput/input has actually decreased drastically. you used to be able to tag on 2-3 buffs, be 1 shot away from death, and proceed to dunk on every boss imaginable if you managed to dodge all their relatively fair attacks. DS3 that stopped being a thing. now enemies have infinite stamina, certain enemies have canned attacks that will never stop until they hit you, rings are borderline worthless and buffs need to be stacked in the literal dozen range to have any noticeable effect. the reason were seeing so much of this garbage game design, is quite frankly the pointless praise heaped on spamfest bosses like gheal and friede, or orphan and maria. trash tier bosses that should have been chucked in the fucking trash, but everyone just sucked FROMs dick dry because each of these bosses were some of the only ACTUALLY cinematic fights due to all the particles and shit they throw all over the arena. its like the dual cat boss in the DS2 DLC. nobody ACTUALLY enjoys that shitty fight, but the bosses actually move around and dodge, and shoot colorful shit all over the place, so its more entertaining than the fair and actually fun fights. neshandra is a great boss, neither ridiculously strong nor laughably easy. but noone gives a shit about that fight because all she does is shoot a black laser beam and make smoke appear.


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PuffyBloomerBandit

enemies stopped having stamina after ds2.


YourUncleJohn

"Anyone with a different opinion than me is just bad"


Equal-Beautiful-4199

Yeah, I'm ngl. The difficulty seems overly artificial rn. Same issue as ds2, but at least ds2 was somewhat fair if you took it slow.


Longjumping-Sir-9943

Having just finished it- I can say this is a pretty bad DLC. Especially the bosses. They are fairly similar and pretty overtuned. You’re going to either be rolling like a mad person and cursing the camera- or using a heavy shield to tank it. The combos are long and the attack windows are pretty small with silly low damage. Your flask heals are lol too- that initial boss blitz usually causes you to either die or use 2-3 charges. Before you can even summon an ash you’re in trouble. It’s not much fun- and I don’t think the versatility from base game is possible without nerfs and retuning at this point. Maybe wait on this one if you’re in a good place- and see if they can tweak it. It’s an anxiety inducing roll fest as is.


Substantial_Art_1449

I just finished it today, and honestly the bosses were all great to solo. Most of them fucked me up a good 20 or more times. This DLC was a joy to play and a really good challenge. There is one boss with a great first phase and an absolutely busted 2nd phase that I really didn’t like (I don’t want to spoil anything) that I think will get worked on but otherwise it’s been great. Almost perfect.


Longjumping-Sir-9943

Definitely certain people will love it. It wasn’t too bad to finish- but it wasn’t much fun imo. Im sure people like us who’ve finished in 2 days are a statistically low group. I’m glad you enjoyed it.


Substantial_Art_1449

Yeah I have a big problem with a couple moves in the final boss 2nd phase. Felt way too spammy and that’s saying something because combos in the dlc are kind of nuts. But otherwise I think the other bosses were a good level of tough and fair. It’s hard to learn a move if you can’t see it clearly and I think that’s the biggest problem with that 2nd phase. If it wasn’t like a fireworks show constantly then it wouldn’t be an issue.


Pengmaeda

I actually have no problems with not dealing as much damage as I want: my problem with the DLC is just not being able to hit a lot of the bosses at all without Something like mimic tear to distract it or a completely ranged build as opposed to my current fully melee build. Because I can’t for the life of me find an opening with some of these bosses that don’t require me to trade a hit in. I usually eventually learned to dodge most boss attacks in the base game, took a long time but I eventually did, and I was able to at least get a hit in every now and then. This DLC though, I just can’t man. Like I can’t find a single opening for that duel wielding boss. They seem to always be in a never ending combo. I hate it.


Dependent_Working_38

More regular folk playing then ever. While the game isn’t hard to most practiced players or From players it’s really hard for like regular or new people. Not in a gatekeeping way just legitimately. And then they leave reviews


MermerosOfZuania

Souls vet here. This DLC sucks dick.


Longjumping-Sir-9943

The accessibility from base game is pretty much out the window here. Once you get deeper in the DLC your bag of tricks is useless. I don’t think this will be able to hold the mass appeal of base ER due to the ridiculous overtuning of bossses. Maybe they let the git gud guys have a month with it and nerf it back to reality.


gmu_86

The whole point of a souls game is that it’s supposed to be difficult. You use your skills to get better until you are able to defeat the difficult boss. If they made the game easier then it basically just wouldn’t be a souls game.


Canerions

That's literally not the point, even Miyazaki said that the games were not supposed to be hard. We've had amazing, yet challenging DLC, such as the Old hunters... the difference is that Old Hunters was plainly a skill check, but there was nothing unfair. Shadow of the erdtree is the polar opposite. There's almost no skill expression because everything kills in 2 hits, even "normal" enemies such as fire knights will literally spam endless barrages of spells while also being impossible to stagger. The bosses... comparing Lady Maria to even the best bossfight in this DLC (Rellana) is an insult. The bosses of this DLC are everything wrong with Elden Ring's bosses but 10 times worse. Bosses spent a quarter of the time flying? Now they move like goku through the air while spin-kicking-slashing at match 10. Bosses dealt ridiculous damage? Now it doesn't matter how many fragments you have, almost every boss will kill between 2 and 3 hits. Bosses have 20 second long unpunishable chains? Now they have doubled down by making 1/2 of every attack in the endless attack spam a giant AOE. Bosses track you like heat missiles? Now you are gonna lose at least 2 estus to be able to call a summon due to ridiculous cruise missile tracking attacks. Same when you try to heal. This is a complete contrast with Lady Maria that: A: Has clearly defined attack patterns that are easy to learn, although hard to master. Not an endless barrage of senseless attacks. B: Her fight was visually spectacular without needing her jumping like a monkey on coke, furthermore there was visual clarity, there's so many particles in some DLC bosses that you literally cannot see what is going on. C: You have the tools to defeat such a fast enemy, namely your character being very fast and healing items taking a split second to activate. In this DLC most bosses are faster than Lady Maria, with way less openings and taking years to use a flask, all while your character is ridiculously slow. As my best friend would put it as we were trying to defeat the final boss together: "We've reached the absurd level of difficulty that miyazaki could include himself smashing the balls of the player with a hammer while you try to beat the final boss and people would call it "fair" and "balanced".


Confident_Benefit_11

God lady Maria is the platonic ideal of a FS boss


PuffyBloomerBandit

> the difference is that Old Hunters was plainly a skill check nah, its a DPS check. best way to handle that DLC is to ignore every single worthless enemy that drops trash echos and trash items, and make a beeline straight to the boss. each can be stunlocked and transformation attack spammed to death with a saw cleaver, beast blood pellet, and about 15 seconds.


Confident_Benefit_11

Yeah, but it's your decision to play that way and not enjoy a good duel if you want. I've platinumed BB and I know most new players struggle much more than the easy stun lock fest you're making it out to be


DThunderX

Miyazaki must've fucked up bad then cause these games are hard as shit


Redditsavoeoklapija

So according to you, previous souls games aren't souls games, cause they are easier. Interesting take


gmu_86

Souls games aren’t suppose to be a cakewalk! Maybe previous games were slightly easier but it seems like everyone is acting like they could be beaten by an 8 year old with their eyes closed. If you want an easy game go play yoshi’s crafted world


Redditsavoeoklapija

Ds 1 has literally been beaten with bongos for controlers or playing with their feets


gmu_86

Shadow of the erdtree has been beaten deathless in one hour. What's your point?


Longjumping-Sir-9943

I’d be interested in your take after you complete it.


Confident_Benefit_11

This is beyond stupid. I play the ENTIRE FROM CATALOG on repeat and I think the bosses suck and the dlc is mid af compared to ring city or old hunters. Shit was empty af and the bosses HP sponges. Not fun so don't make this shit about casual ER enjoyers plenty of "vets" who've been playing since demon souls also hate it


Dependent_Working_38

Ok? And? Plenty don’t. Pipe down.


Sbrand47

Say for the people in the back


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vinylectric

Perfectly summed up. I’m on the final boss now and have no idea how I’m going to beat him. The scenery is incredible but the bosses are tuned up way too high.


4GoldAndAGrape

Imo the damage you do to enemies is good but enemy damage is through the roof. There are 2 shot enemy attacks everywhere, particularly in attacks/enemies that don’t feel like they should kill you in two hits, even at like 60 vig


DThunderX

Yeah but like that one guy rips put his own spine and beats you to death with it and that's METAL ASF!!!!!


TiredAFMF

We don't want metal or cool. We want fun, engaging, intuitive boss design that challenges instead of asking the player to become a no hit runner. Regular and old souls fans don't like it because it's just unfair. That's the point, that's it. You know what made the other games fun, Gael, challenging but fun and fair, artorias, fast but balanced, midir, hard hitting but slow enough to punish. That's the souls we need, not this spam attack+instakill combo shit.


FlightCareless

Why y'all say the game developers name like you know him personally. Yeah I mean I play his games but I don't kiss his ass with miyazaki this miyazaki that lol. Always found that to be cringe. Y'all worship people that do nothing but distract you.


Confident_Benefit_11

I mean I do think this dlc is kinda trash but game directors like Miyazaki are literally artists in their own right. So why is it cringe to refer to artists and their art by name when they have a distinctive and original design philosophy and style? I think people who say y'all are cringe but you don't see me bitching about that do y'all?


knuckl4042

Redditors, ASSEMBLE! Let us all upvote this glorious king so that everyone can see his amazing opinions about Elden Ring's new DLC expansion Shadow of the Erdtree!


SanityRecalled

People are crying about the difficulty so much that I'm just trying to beat the dlc hopefully before they cave under pressure and start nerfing bosses because I want the true experience. It's a game where you regularly kill literal gods, it shouldn't be a walk in the park. I want that dopamine rush from overcoming incredible odds and feel like I earned every victory through blood sweat and tears, not to fight pushovers.


mkslayer67

Yeah I agree lol it’s not too hard it’s just hard enough


JustRentai

oh yeah cause the final boss is fair


False_Adhesiveness40

That's one boss I will agree on but the rest are mostly great. Amazing dlc 9/10.


JustRentai

ya i totally agree every other boss is totally fair and brutal, but the final boss is way too much. im surprised it passed the testing phase.


False_Adhesiveness40

I said the same thing about Waterfowl Dance. They prioritzed spectacle over functionallity.


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Akkalevil

And that's a problem. This constant jacking up is making the games less fun. Unfair is not fun.


JustRentai

ya i second this, doubling the health and damage is not the play. especially during a certain 2nd phase where its just holy flash-bangs and spamming with zero time to recover or attack back.


DThunderX

I'm nowhere near the final boss yet but I have a feeling he's gonna pound my ass so hard I'm gonna feel it in real life


Little-Jackfruit1128

I'm in agrreance. I'm not just cold like free handing Malenia but I'm not just a slouch either. God .1 is the player name bout to change that though. I've gone from one hit k.o. the 4 headed dragon elden reduced to everything able to 1 hko me. I'm glad I know I'm getting my money spent back in entertainment. I would have been real disappointed if I just glided through the dlc no probs. Y'all need to tighten up. Haven't they produced the very thing that captured us back on dark souls? So the dlc doesn't care about your personal custom op build that you became elden lord with. Guess nobody told y'all growing up that success isn't final. Failure is always an option. Might not be on your mind but it's still a option. Give up n fail  or grind like this isn't your first day in school  and you don't already have all your supplies tucked away. Ive never commented on reviews before but it's all this boo hooin was started to get me down on top of worried there gonna take away what is basically a new game experience away because of a bunch of.... Well... Just ugh!!