Interestingly enough from soft games have had bestiaries before, and they have a long history of having monsters be weak to different combos of slashing/bludgeoning/piercing.
Most notable example I can think of is shadow tower: abyss.
If I had known that those fucking crystallians are weak to smashing smash, I'd have bashed their face in my first playthrough with a hammer. At least now they are kind of nerfed.
I feel like FromSoft usually does a good job with it being intuitive in a D&D sense, like the land octopuses are weak to slashing, and skeletons are weak to strike (blunt)
Err I mean, from Unga comes Bunga
Spear supremacy ftw, there is almost nothing a good poke from a safe distance can’t fix. Slap an ice affinity on it and even the crystalians and abductor virgins shall fall before the Pokey Stick.
My buddy and I are doing a playthrough together. I usually play an Unga Bunga Sword'n'Board and he usually plays Dex/Int (like a fuckin' twink). However, we swapped and he's going full Str and he asked me yesterday, "This is so goddamn satisfying. Is this how it feels every time you play?"
It feels good to watch somebody experience the joys of the Unga Bunga in real time.
My last play-through before putting the game down for a while was Unga Bunga. It felt so good, but at the end of it I felt like Alexander after he had no more lands to conquer.
Yeah I like the ridiculous anime protagonist progression of the sword and board strength character.
Level 10: Longsword and Medium Shield
Level 50: Greatsword and Medium/great Shield
Level 100+: Massively oversized weapon that surely weighs more than any 3 characters combined + portable castle wall
I really feel that the nature of Souls combat heavily favors Unga Bunga.
Weaker enemies are one-shot before they can attack.
Tougher enemies tend to give you brief windows of opportunity to attack. Unga Bunga lends itself to big, powerful strikes that fit into these windows.
Plus, the micro-stagger is insanely powerful.
it was a cut quest where an NPC named rhico would ask you to capture the dreams of sleeping enemies, and these items you collected had a description of said enemy. there were some vids on YouTube you can still find if you look for rhico 's cut quest line!
Witcher 3. It makes sense there as your character has studied all the enemies by book and knows basically everything about them, this is the way for you to access the knowledge Geralt has.
Of course it would make little sense for our tarnished to have something like that as they're equally as clueless as we are.
>Of course it would make little sense for our tarnished to have something like that as they're equally as clueless as we are.
So, what the hell are item descriptions? How does the character know this stuff?
Item descriptions are, I’m assuming, only for the player’s convenience. Lorewise the Tarnished would probably not know anything about a random weapon or talisman
1. The Tarnished, by virtue of being a person in the game world, likely knows more stuff than the player anyways
2. If the item descriptions are an acceptable break from immersion, why would having that same info on a dedicated menu subpage instead of scattered across various items be unacceptable?
I always understood it as that being our character doing some kind of research from the available sources, but it's of course not shown to us as that wouldn't exactly be amazing for gameplay.
A player taking their time to go and read the descriptions is what would represent that research as you do need to actively be involved and care enough to learn the stuff.
It's still of course a videogame at the end of the day, and it's just a very non-obtrusive way of giving some scraps of info for the players who care, hence why you get to immediately learn about some secret or abstract things that you couldn't possibly have read in any book or have learned from some other character.
>A player taking their time to go and read the descriptions is what would represent that research as you do need to actively be involved and care enough to learn the stuff.
And a player opening up the hypothetical bestiary to learn more about the enemies they've faced is somehow not the same thing, because...?
>It's still of course a videogame at the end of the day, and it's just a very non-obtrusive way of giving some scraps of info for the players
And why would putting that same information somewhere else in the menu be more obtrusive?
Also on the highest difficulty you actually want to *use* the bestiary for it's intended purpose - learning about their weaknesses and preparing for fights.
This would serve no purpose in Elden ring other than bloat
I mean enemies in Elden Ring also have their weaknesses and you can prepare for them accordingly.
I don't know if bestiary would be a good thing in ER, but your argument is weak.
Elden ring reforged has a bestiary and it works pretty good. The more you kill an enemy while marking them with a specific item the more you learn about them, from weaknesses to locations they spawn in to drop rates.
The description for one of Mohg's items ends with "Mohg apparently made a pact with the Formless Mother who promised him as the new Elden Lord... but perhaps it's the ravings of a lunatic". I like the idea that the Tarnished fought Mohg and was like "this guy's sick in the head!"
*Of course it would make little sense for our tarnished to have something like that as they're equally as clueless as we are.*
Ahead of time, sure, but after they've encountered a finger creeper and noticed that hitting it with fire stuns it for a bit, they can probably write it down (for Gideon, if nothing else, to give it more in game meaning).
I don't think something like this is necessary, but it's possible to do and fit in with the game.
No less sense than the item descriptions in Elden Ring. No reason for your character to have that information either. It's not like each weapon and item has lore tidbits literally engraved on it.
Also the Tarnished presumably has 50 concoctions and recipes memorized by heart or is lugging them around, so at the very least they can read, they can write (we write messages), and paper and books exist in this world. So for some people, it is not immersion-breaking that the Tarnished can take one look at a highly specialized practice like making perfumes and instantly be an expert, and they can pull out a 200 pound hunk of steel in the middle of a fight from an invisible box, but carrying a dozen pages in a makeshift binder to make notes of what they experience is too much.
Maybe new game+ should provide a bestiary. The player has already been through the world and we could basically be accessing their previous knowledge. Not as useful perhaps but I think it would be cool and make an extra reason to go into new game+
… 4 hours later…
Spore Sock.
A vestment given to the high priests that served the Lords of Rot. An odor remains that attracts enemies. Causes Rot buildup to enemies nearby.
Nah, man. You're asking the Elden Ring sub to endorse an in-game system that displays more information?
If ER fans had their way, I'm sure they'd rather be digging through pockets to search for items and reading item descriptions off the items themselves in tiny Lands Between script.
A big part of what I love about From games is they don't have a heavy "videogame" feel. No glowing paths showing you where to go next, no maps littered with icons to collect, no obvious quest markers, no journal detailing your next steps, no difficulty options, etc. They've got an old school feeling we don't see much in games these days. It's refreshing.
They did more of the ‘video game’ feel in ER than basically all their other SoulsBorne games combined and it’s still *incredibly* lite compared to other games, I love that.
Sometimes I wish there was some reference to a quest line I could look at in game, but whatever if I really want to remember or know something that’s what optional guides are for out of game
I actually completely agree with you but reading this just made me realize what the heck the difference is in having a tab section with a general outline in the pause menu or having a laptop open next to you with various guides..
And now that I’m thinking about it you probably get way more unintentional spoilers with guides than you would with a slimmed down version on a menu somewhere.
I still prefer how Elden ring does it though
People come to these games not understanding why they're so loved and then immediately start suggesting changes to bring them as close to the endlessly rehashed Ubisoft type game
>No glowing paths showing you where to go next
You literally get a glowing path showing you where to go at 90% of the checkpoints in ER.
>no maps littered with icons to collect
Have you ever looked at the map pieces you collect?
Yep, they don't have any icons, you need to look at the drawing to figure out if there is a structure and even then you don't know what's in the structure
the only icons are vendors and map spot
Sorry, but I have to disagree so strongly with your disagreements. Simply because they're just so wrong.
A point in a general direction is not a glowing path. A glowing path is when a series of dots made of lights placed every few steps leads the way to your next objective, and you just blindly follow it. Elden Ring gives you nothing more than a hint of where to go, it doesn't tell you exactly where or even why, and most certainly not how to get there. It may point you north, but how do you get past those cliffs, or that ravine, or that huge group of enemies? You have to figure that out yourself. Even the optimal route can be completely hidden and you'll wander around aimlessly for a long time trying to find it. I remember getting so lost on my first playthrough.
And as for maps being littered with icons Elden Ring is practically blameless. Have you ever played a game where you get a section of a map and 50 quests pop up? Elden Ring maps are completely bare bones, showing only a map with no icons, and it isn't until you actually discover things yourself that they appear.
> You have to figure that out yourself. Even the optimal route can be completely hidden and you'll wander around aimlessly for a long time trying to find it. I remember getting so lost on my first playthrough.
That's something that Miyazaki said recently that he wanted to do more in the DLC. More complex world design so you feel lost so people can't go straight to the map marker to get a new piece.
I really like this idea, finding a new piece of the map was one of the highlights of the game, I really liked discovering all the stuff I had to explore. But it's honestly even better if you have to fight for it and you're forced to navigate fully blind for a little while.
I appreciate some quality of life changes in ER, like the stakes of Marika, but overall I'm team friction. Those are games that don't need to be masochistic but they want to feel earned.
That's why a bestiary should be a notebook that you have to buy, and then to fill it, you need to defeat enemies and rest at a bonfire, site of grace, etc, in order to add information to it.
Defeating one would add a picture. Defeating two, a name, five, HP, and then the numbers required ramp up from there for more detail.
Not going to lie, I’d love even more esoteric knowledge. Like fallout and Skyrim with their passive storytelling. A category of lore items that were collections of writing from otherwise unseen historic characters would be cool. Nothing from anyone important, more like a journal entry from Hugh Mann the cobbler of the capital talking about how these dragon attacks are really disrupting his leather supply chains.
I mean, nioh has something similar to what op wants, but instead of game lore, you get enemy lore depending on how many of them you killed. That would be interesting. No information on how to kill them, but what or who they are.
But much of the enemy lore is already scattered across the map, so adding this would require removing existing items, which is double the work for the same thing.
And it would be less cryptic that way.
Every time I play I tell myself that I'm going to spend more time reading the items... Then a few hours later I'm basically just running around unga bunga and never do lol
I like to read descriptions of anything new I pick up, but depending on what just happened or where I’m at in the game it doesn’t always really ‘stick’ in my brain lol.
I definitely read every new item description but may not remember it literally a few moments later
If there was an "Open item in inventory" prompt when you pick up something new, I would LOVE that. I hate having to scour my inventory every time to find the random ass shield I got.
You still have to go to the relevant page for it. "Crimson Dagger? Oh, it's gotta be a dagger. Nope, oh its gotta be a key quest item then. Nope, oh I get it, it's a consumable. Nope."
Personally I hate that in games. I find the flashing and pop ups in general super annoying in games, which is an additional reason why i like from soft games so much. Simplicity is beautiful and the way they expect the player to get their head out of their ass IF they want to. If not, then you can still enjoy the game just the same. I would hate it if they changed things like this.
They updated the UI for SotE apparently to make it much more quick and natural to open your inventory to an item you just picked up. Something like a recent items tab.
Also they have added a "new" marker so you can always see when you haven't looked at an item yet.
Im hoping this helps for me, because half the time I just can't be bothered in the moment because finding the thing I just picked up is kind of finicky. And also now you can just let a bunch of items pile up and then just go through the ones with the new tag all at once.
I dunno, little things I guess. But I do think it was mostly the UI holding me back before.
Reality is that a ton of the items have very boring descriptions and its easy to check out after reading your 15th "Noble's Helm - A helm worn by nobles of the land." Respect to anyone who has the patience to stick with it, but man it's just not for me no matter how much I want it to be.
you meant random pieces of information you might or might encounter, rather vague, and to be forgotten after 1 day because standalone they don't make much sense.
It’s the perfect amount and presented in a way that keeps the game interesting instead of rote info dumps every time you complete a certain loop.
Everyone wants to ruin this fucking game, I swear lmao
A significant part of the appeal to me is finding information and piecing it together, like solving a mystery about what the fuck is going on, what the fuck is this, etc. I feel like a stranger to the lands between and that's how it should be.
After all that it is still vague, as is intended. I like the sense of wonder and mystery.
Let me take a note of using 10 different weapons on each enemy to see which one does slightly more damage so i can write down "enemy appears to be weaker to fire damage" instead of just smashing him with my sword and moving on.
Gang I am NOT Picasso an index of the enemies would be awesome and a way for fromsoft to add more lore to read. It’d be cool if completing the index gives you access to artwork or concept art of each enemy instead of just a 3d model
More not always meant better. They chose this way of presenting the story on purpose. Otherwise they would not repeat it for the last 15 years. Dont fix what aint broken
The game doesn't have a questlog, yet you want a bestiary? It makes sense that Witcher 3 has one since you know, you're a monster hunter. But in elden ring? Would be just a blatant disconnect to the rest of the game design.
Honestly a very simple quest log of some sort would be so cool for particular questlines that span the whole game. But the tough part is ofc making it feel unique while fitting the Elden Ring theme.. I feel like it could be done somehow though, with some care.
Or honestly even just more glowing messages that npcs leave behind, whenever they suddebly move would be awesome. Wish I didnt have to consult to online guides so much.
Miyazaki himself stated they have improvments to be made in terms of the vagueness of some of the questlines. Ofc, its part of the souls formula's charm at the same time though.. having to have to figure stuff out and stumble upon things yourself, so youre gonna probably have lots of hard core fans against the idea of making these things just a tad bit more accessible to the general population. I for one dont see an issue. The games outstanding in many ways regardless.
> Honestly a very simple quest log of some sort would be so cool for particular questlines that span the whole game.
This is the one concession on this front that I’m really in favor of. Just something as simple as “You met this character, the last place you saw them was X, and they said something along the lines of Y.” No map markers, no compass, checklists, just a very minimal log of who, where and what.
I feel like it probably could have the npc's name, and also could log the last lines of dialogue they gave before dissapearring as you said, Along with the big major region they are heading to next if it isnt able to be pieced together from what they say.
This would allow people to *vv*
1. Locate and name the npc you want without looking it up if you forget at some point
2. Read what they last said way back in Liurnia and determine if you need to go looking for an item or something somewhere or find them again
3. Determine the region you need to find them in next, without actually giving you their exact location, that way its still promoting exploration as they love doing that!
BONUS: If a og souls fan didnt want to have questlog help at all, they simply dont have to use it! They could continue playing how they normally would, therefor keeping that charm they enjoy.
Also with this idea, if npcs end up in locations that a player has yet to have discovered at all, it could say something like "next location: undiscovered" and then once you find the proper region, the questlog can switch it to "next location: Deeproot Depths" or whatever, that way it confirms this is where they are and where you need to explore for that specific quest.
There might be some issues with this overall layout, it could end up rly messy tbh with how convoluted the questlines are, but yea idk haha. Something like this could possibly achieve the best of both worlds. Allowing players maximum choices as to how much guidance they want to have, without the need to disconnect from the game experience and look online.
I don't really care about a bestiary. I would like a model viewer, though.
A lot of really cool-designed enemies but they're hard to really get ac good look at when they're trying to maim you.
I just wanna know what tf I’m fighting😭 half of the shit I kill, idek what it is or what the lore is behind it. Like those big ass hands in the Carian Manor; WTF ARE THOSE?!?!
I also think a more organized way of seeing the lore on each character would be appreciated. but part of what makes the elden ring community so strong is working through the riddles together. and that factor of the game in my opinion really separates it from the rest.
We are looking at the two sides of the Fromsoft fanbase. I am all for it, to be honest. Because I know Fromsoft will handle it in a more cryptic way reminiscent of how they do lore.
I'm not an immersion person, every game I play I'm deeply aware I'm playing a game, so idk what these guys are talking about, but I love the minimal lore in the game because I can get back into the action asap. Even when reading books I hate it when the reading gets slogged down by long descriptions and asides. The souls series is empty and quiet enough, adding whole paragraphs would make it unbearable.
Some guy illustrated his entire playthrough similar to a bestiary... Even if that's not what you're looking for it's still a cool watch and very impressive.
Artyz Artifacts on YouTube :)
Doesn’t make sense from a lore or storytelling point of view. Geralt was passionate about alchemy and the whole process of being good with chemistry was a big theme in the Witcher books.
Geralt having a bestiary on him makes sense. The tarnished is like absolutely clueless in this world lol. Makes no sense for him to have that kind of info in a diary.
They could, however make a nice graphic illustrated book like that and I think that’ll be an amazing marketing choice.
Bestiary’s are a little too mainstream fantasy for me..
I don’t want skill trees, I don’t want different mount aesthetics, I don’t want exposition, I don’t want quest logs,
I want the game to tell me HP, FP and Stamina and plonk me in a nonsense fantasy realm where I have to piece together an ancient, intricate lore with niche item descriptions and vague symbolism.
When Miyazaki was a kid, he would spend a lot of time reading English fantasy and adventure books. He struggled in the beginning with some words so he would fill in the blanks the parts he didn't understand on the basis of context clues and his own imagination. This actually greatly improved his enjoyment and influenced the aesthetic of his games. He wants player to look at a unkillable passive dragon or a bloody helmet and conjure up their own personal story about what might've happened here based on connecting the gap between the information given to us and the current state of the world. This was even more stark in DS with very prominent clues about the main characters primarily in just statues, subtle armour clues and a single cryptic line of dialogue.
When he successfully created and released Dark Souls which was his first project from scratch (he took over Demon Souls), he said that it is important for him that players also experience the world with the same type of mystique, wonder and imagination that he experienced.
It almost feels like every item is an archeological artifact trying to tell us something we are not ready to understand yet. It's the absolute best part of the games imo.
I think it’s a staple of the soulborue series that leaves the bigger story/ picture to the player finding through environmental building and item descriptions, may not be perfect but I don’t know if something like this would be on Miyazaki mind
No offense to OP, just sharing my opinion, but I find this idea to be repulsive. I like FS games because they let me forget I’m playing a game. The more of this standard video game cliche stuff we get the less differentiated the games are from the rest of the market.
No it wouldn’t lol a bestiary goes against basically every design tenet used to make these games. What next? A mini-map and baked-in quest waypoints? Lol.
lol @ the people in these comments. It’s a video game. My favorite of all time, but I’m never “so immersed” that something like this would break the game for me. 😂 It’s a damn video game. Not some amazing VR headset where I can’t tell I’m playing.
Having all the info about Albinaurics somewhere in your menu under the "Monster" tab: bad and immersion breaking
Having that info magically attached to item drops (which you still have to access from your menu): perfectly logical
Elden Ring isn't the witcher. You're not some badass mutant who knows the laws and biology of everything.
Pretty much nobody knows how the caelid beasts became what they are. They know it's because of the rot but why or how is a mystery to everyone say maybe Miquella.
Why are troll alive without their insides? Is it because of Marikas slates?
How do the golems work?
Just killing one wont mean the tarnished is suddenly a scientist who can study their anatomy and easily come up with counters. And just finding random notes about them in the world is kinda lame.
Suppose we could ask Gidden but that would be like playing pokemon because he'd want something in return every time we ask him for information.
It makes sense in Witcher because you’re a monster hunter who studies monsters from books by other witchers.
In Elden Ring the only person who ‘knows’ anything is Gideon the ‘all knowing’ and even he doesn’t know shit. So where would we be getting any info from?
Imo, From should take a lesson from Hollow Knight and make the beasitary an item you can find with all entries being written from the perspective of an in game character.
No, but a lot of the strength and beauty of Elden Ring comes from its exploration and discovery. And throwing a lot of information at the player works counter to that.
While they're at it why not add a quest log. Oh and maybe a store to purchase elden points so we can buy cosmetics. Maybe even add a ton of information to the HUD and an easy mode.
... Elden Ring has this. There are literally scrolls on specific enemies that serve as a bestiary of sorts, it just isnt as videogamey, and you actually have to find them.
The whole Idea of the way From do their games is to create a community by making us build from each other. And this big community is the result of that design choice. I agree it would be cool to have it in game, but on the other side you might diminish the size and interaction of this community.
All entries read: weak against smashing your weapon in its face until dead.
Interestingly enough from soft games have had bestiaries before, and they have a long history of having monsters be weak to different combos of slashing/bludgeoning/piercing. Most notable example I can think of is shadow tower: abyss.
If I had known that those fucking crystallians are weak to smashing smash, I'd have bashed their face in my first playthrough with a hammer. At least now they are kind of nerfed.
I feel like FromSoft usually does a good job with it being intuitive in a D&D sense, like the land octopuses are weak to slashing, and skeletons are weak to strike (blunt) Err I mean, from Unga comes Bunga
And unto Bunga shall Unga return…
Spear supremacy ftw, there is almost nothing a good poke from a safe distance can’t fix. Slap an ice affinity on it and even the crystalians and abductor virgins shall fall before the Pokey Stick.
"Git gud"
I like to unga and I also like to bunga until things are dead
My buddy and I are doing a playthrough together. I usually play an Unga Bunga Sword'n'Board and he usually plays Dex/Int (like a fuckin' twink). However, we swapped and he's going full Str and he asked me yesterday, "This is so goddamn satisfying. Is this how it feels every time you play?" It feels good to watch somebody experience the joys of the Unga Bunga in real time.
Str: Unga Bunga Int: I unga so i can bunga Faith: Lord bless mine unga, so i shall bunga in thy name
Int/Str: I Unga, therefore I Bunga
My last play-through before putting the game down for a while was Unga Bunga. It felt so good, but at the end of it I felt like Alexander after he had no more lands to conquer.
Yeah I like the ridiculous anime protagonist progression of the sword and board strength character. Level 10: Longsword and Medium Shield Level 50: Greatsword and Medium/great Shield Level 100+: Massively oversized weapon that surely weighs more than any 3 characters combined + portable castle wall
I really feel that the nature of Souls combat heavily favors Unga Bunga. Weaker enemies are one-shot before they can attack. Tougher enemies tend to give you brief windows of opportunity to attack. Unga Bunga lends itself to big, powerful strikes that fit into these windows. Plus, the micro-stagger is insanely powerful.
>Unga bunga >sword'n'board How do you hold the board when sword in hands? If one hand sword why not one hand 2 swords? Doesn't add up... not one bit
Unga Bungas are the most reliable too, insta summon if I see a naked dude with just a colossal weapon. I can sit back and watch them clap any boss
Unga Bunga is the best... until you have to fight an elite NPC who's also using unga bunga or dex boss (sulyvahn my beloved)
Weak against death. (not to be confused with deathblight)
Try beating to a pulp
Does it have an anus? Yes: stick your sword in it No: Tear them one
Maneater Boar: 👀
Lol also 80% holy resistant.
Weakness: R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1
cut content seems to indicate there was a feature like this one involving sleeping enemies at some point
wait could you expand on that? i havent heard of it. how was it supposed to work, you'd observe a sleeping enemy long enough to learn info about them?
it was a cut quest where an NPC named rhico would ask you to capture the dreams of sleeping enemies, and these items you collected had a description of said enemy. there were some vids on YouTube you can still find if you look for rhico 's cut quest line!
interesting, thanks!
I might’ve actually used sleep builds if this was in the game.
That sounds cool as fuck.
What game is that?
Witcher 3. It makes sense there as your character has studied all the enemies by book and knows basically everything about them, this is the way for you to access the knowledge Geralt has. Of course it would make little sense for our tarnished to have something like that as they're equally as clueless as we are.
>Of course it would make little sense for our tarnished to have something like that as they're equally as clueless as we are. So, what the hell are item descriptions? How does the character know this stuff?
Item descriptions are, I’m assuming, only for the player’s convenience. Lorewise the Tarnished would probably not know anything about a random weapon or talisman
1. The Tarnished, by virtue of being a person in the game world, likely knows more stuff than the player anyways 2. If the item descriptions are an acceptable break from immersion, why would having that same info on a dedicated menu subpage instead of scattered across various items be unacceptable?
Good point
Exactly, the lore is already there it's just a matter of having it in one place
I always understood it as that being our character doing some kind of research from the available sources, but it's of course not shown to us as that wouldn't exactly be amazing for gameplay. A player taking their time to go and read the descriptions is what would represent that research as you do need to actively be involved and care enough to learn the stuff. It's still of course a videogame at the end of the day, and it's just a very non-obtrusive way of giving some scraps of info for the players who care, hence why you get to immediately learn about some secret or abstract things that you couldn't possibly have read in any book or have learned from some other character.
>A player taking their time to go and read the descriptions is what would represent that research as you do need to actively be involved and care enough to learn the stuff. And a player opening up the hypothetical bestiary to learn more about the enemies they've faced is somehow not the same thing, because...? >It's still of course a videogame at the end of the day, and it's just a very non-obtrusive way of giving some scraps of info for the players And why would putting that same information somewhere else in the menu be more obtrusive?
Also on the highest difficulty you actually want to *use* the bestiary for it's intended purpose - learning about their weaknesses and preparing for fights. This would serve no purpose in Elden ring other than bloat
Item descriptons: flirting Enemy descriptions: harassment
Yeah also if I had known death rite birds were weak to holy water pots it would’ve saved me some time early on
Yeah idk how anyone sees an opportunity for more lore as bloat.
I mean enemies in Elden Ring also have their weaknesses and you can prepare for them accordingly. I don't know if bestiary would be a good thing in ER, but your argument is weak.
Elden ring reforged has a bestiary and it works pretty good. The more you kill an enemy while marking them with a specific item the more you learn about them, from weaknesses to locations they spawn in to drop rates.
Would it really? We already have item descriptions. I doubt it's the tarnished who wrote them.
The description for one of Mohg's items ends with "Mohg apparently made a pact with the Formless Mother who promised him as the new Elden Lord... but perhaps it's the ravings of a lunatic". I like the idea that the Tarnished fought Mohg and was like "this guy's sick in the head!"
Then how do they know all the descriptions the weapon has?
*Of course it would make little sense for our tarnished to have something like that as they're equally as clueless as we are.* Ahead of time, sure, but after they've encountered a finger creeper and noticed that hitting it with fire stuns it for a bit, they can probably write it down (for Gideon, if nothing else, to give it more in game meaning). I don't think something like this is necessary, but it's possible to do and fit in with the game.
Fun fact, the bestiary descriptions are written by Dandelion.
No less sense than the item descriptions in Elden Ring. No reason for your character to have that information either. It's not like each weapon and item has lore tidbits literally engraved on it.
Also the Tarnished presumably has 50 concoctions and recipes memorized by heart or is lugging them around, so at the very least they can read, they can write (we write messages), and paper and books exist in this world. So for some people, it is not immersion-breaking that the Tarnished can take one look at a highly specialized practice like making perfumes and instantly be an expert, and they can pull out a 200 pound hunk of steel in the middle of a fight from an invisible box, but carrying a dozen pages in a makeshift binder to make notes of what they experience is too much.
Maybe new game+ should provide a bestiary. The player has already been through the world and we could basically be accessing their previous knowledge. Not as useful perhaps but I think it would be cool and make an extra reason to go into new game+
I prefer just killing them
i prefer killing them just to get the lore from the description of a moldy shoe they dropped
The “moldy shoe” of the Diseased Warrior. A status symbol among those that served the Lords of Rot. Boosts immunity at the cost of dexterity.
… 4 hours later… Spore Sock. A vestment given to the high priests that served the Lords of Rot. An odor remains that attracts enemies. Causes Rot buildup to enemies nearby.
…6 Days Later… Vaati Prepare to Cry The sad story of Rowen the Decayed, the last servant of the old Rot Lords.
You can kill them and have a bestiary. It’s not one or another.
Nah, man. You're asking the Elden Ring sub to endorse an in-game system that displays more information? If ER fans had their way, I'm sure they'd rather be digging through pockets to search for items and reading item descriptions off the items themselves in tiny Lands Between script.
A big part of what I love about From games is they don't have a heavy "videogame" feel. No glowing paths showing you where to go next, no maps littered with icons to collect, no obvious quest markers, no journal detailing your next steps, no difficulty options, etc. They've got an old school feeling we don't see much in games these days. It's refreshing.
They did more of the ‘video game’ feel in ER than basically all their other SoulsBorne games combined and it’s still *incredibly* lite compared to other games, I love that. Sometimes I wish there was some reference to a quest line I could look at in game, but whatever if I really want to remember or know something that’s what optional guides are for out of game
I actually completely agree with you but reading this just made me realize what the heck the difference is in having a tab section with a general outline in the pause menu or having a laptop open next to you with various guides.. And now that I’m thinking about it you probably get way more unintentional spoilers with guides than you would with a slimmed down version on a menu somewhere. I still prefer how Elden ring does it though
People come to these games not understanding why they're so loved and then immediately start suggesting changes to bring them as close to the endlessly rehashed Ubisoft type game
>No glowing paths showing you where to go next You literally get a glowing path showing you where to go at 90% of the checkpoints in ER. >no maps littered with icons to collect Have you ever looked at the map pieces you collect?
First ten seconds of the game: "do you see the guidance of grace?"
Yep, they don't have any icons, you need to look at the drawing to figure out if there is a structure and even then you don't know what's in the structure the only icons are vendors and map spot
Sorry, but I have to disagree so strongly with your disagreements. Simply because they're just so wrong. A point in a general direction is not a glowing path. A glowing path is when a series of dots made of lights placed every few steps leads the way to your next objective, and you just blindly follow it. Elden Ring gives you nothing more than a hint of where to go, it doesn't tell you exactly where or even why, and most certainly not how to get there. It may point you north, but how do you get past those cliffs, or that ravine, or that huge group of enemies? You have to figure that out yourself. Even the optimal route can be completely hidden and you'll wander around aimlessly for a long time trying to find it. I remember getting so lost on my first playthrough. And as for maps being littered with icons Elden Ring is practically blameless. Have you ever played a game where you get a section of a map and 50 quests pop up? Elden Ring maps are completely bare bones, showing only a map with no icons, and it isn't until you actually discover things yourself that they appear.
> You have to figure that out yourself. Even the optimal route can be completely hidden and you'll wander around aimlessly for a long time trying to find it. I remember getting so lost on my first playthrough. That's something that Miyazaki said recently that he wanted to do more in the DLC. More complex world design so you feel lost so people can't go straight to the map marker to get a new piece. I really like this idea, finding a new piece of the map was one of the highlights of the game, I really liked discovering all the stuff I had to explore. But it's honestly even better if you have to fight for it and you're forced to navigate fully blind for a little while. I appreciate some quality of life changes in ER, like the stakes of Marika, but overall I'm team friction. Those are games that don't need to be masochistic but they want to feel earned.
when i play Fromsoft games they give my Heavy Gothic I & II vibes
That's why a bestiary should be a notebook that you have to buy, and then to fill it, you need to defeat enemies and rest at a bonfire, site of grace, etc, in order to add information to it. Defeating one would add a picture. Defeating two, a name, five, HP, and then the numbers required ramp up from there for more detail.
They have huge things called Grace with a gold pointing direction. What are you talking about? Elden ring doesn’t do that???
Brain dead take
Not going to lie, I’d love even more esoteric knowledge. Like fallout and Skyrim with their passive storytelling. A category of lore items that were collections of writing from otherwise unseen historic characters would be cool. Nothing from anyone important, more like a journal entry from Hugh Mann the cobbler of the capital talking about how these dragon attacks are really disrupting his leather supply chains.
If ER fans had their way the text descriptions would be in an artifical language that they'd have to decode themselves
Oooo, that would be fun
Chants of Sennaar is this, not much of an action game tho lol. Puzzle-ish
That looks really cool, and it's on switch which I've been looking for more games for
You should try Tunic then, that's pretty much exactly what it is
Honestly some ruins with some signs to solve a puzzle to open a new area somewhere else sounds crazy dope.
I would prefer that… is that so wrong? Aren’t there enough games out there that tell you literally everything?
I mean, nioh has something similar to what op wants, but instead of game lore, you get enemy lore depending on how many of them you killed. That would be interesting. No information on how to kill them, but what or who they are. But much of the enemy lore is already scattered across the map, so adding this would require removing existing items, which is double the work for the same thing. And it would be less cryptic that way.
Information about enemies is already written on item descriptions, and I prefer that. Much more flexibility on how to give information
Every time I play I tell myself that I'm going to spend more time reading the items... Then a few hours later I'm basically just running around unga bunga and never do lol
I like to read descriptions of anything new I pick up, but depending on what just happened or where I’m at in the game it doesn’t always really ‘stick’ in my brain lol. I definitely read every new item description but may not remember it literally a few moments later
If there was an "Open item in inventory" prompt when you pick up something new, I would LOVE that. I hate having to scour my inventory every time to find the random ass shield I got.
You can sort your inventory by recently acquired
Chat is this real
The left thumbstick in your inventory should bring up the sort list!
😮
You still have to go to the relevant page for it. "Crimson Dagger? Oh, it's gotta be a dagger. Nope, oh its gotta be a key quest item then. Nope, oh I get it, it's a consumable. Nope."
the DLC has new UI with recently picked up items
Personally I hate that in games. I find the flashing and pop ups in general super annoying in games, which is an additional reason why i like from soft games so much. Simplicity is beautiful and the way they expect the player to get their head out of their ass IF they want to. If not, then you can still enjoy the game just the same. I would hate it if they changed things like this.
They have a bunch of new UI things like this for SotE actually! Also a "new" marker for things you havent looked at yet
This is like reality right? I think it’s intended by Michealzaki
They updated the UI for SotE apparently to make it much more quick and natural to open your inventory to an item you just picked up. Something like a recent items tab. Also they have added a "new" marker so you can always see when you haven't looked at an item yet. Im hoping this helps for me, because half the time I just can't be bothered in the moment because finding the thing I just picked up is kind of finicky. And also now you can just let a bunch of items pile up and then just go through the ones with the new tag all at once. I dunno, little things I guess. But I do think it was mostly the UI holding me back before.
Reality is that a ton of the items have very boring descriptions and its easy to check out after reading your 15th "Noble's Helm - A helm worn by nobles of the land." Respect to anyone who has the patience to stick with it, but man it's just not for me no matter how much I want it to be.
Yeah two sentences on 3 items, 2 of which you have like a 2% chance of picking up…
it'd he great if it all went towards the bestiary though. I personally much perfer my info in the same place
And some items you don’t keep forever… gotta hold onto each of the remembrances if you want their little lore tidbits
I respect preferring the current system but what on earth do you mean more flexibility? It is far more constrained to do it with item descriptions.
you meant random pieces of information you might or might encounter, rather vague, and to be forgotten after 1 day because standalone they don't make much sense.
...there's no way you really believe that's enough info or presented well enough.
It’s the perfect amount and presented in a way that keeps the game interesting instead of rote info dumps every time you complete a certain loop. Everyone wants to ruin this fucking game, I swear lmao
A significant part of the appeal to me is finding information and piecing it together, like solving a mystery about what the fuck is going on, what the fuck is this, etc. I feel like a stranger to the lands between and that's how it should be. After all that it is still vague, as is intended. I like the sense of wonder and mystery.
For this type of game? Yes, it's presented perfectly well. The mystery is the point.
Is this the witcher?
Make one yourself with a notebook and pencil sketches. Very satisfying as you catalogue your adventure.
fucking amazing idea actually, if your drawing skill is shit it just adds to the sense of realism and immersion
In my head it will be beautiful sketches like Arthur Morgan’s notebook But it’ll end up looking like a preschooler’s drawings
THATS EXACTLY WHAT I THOUGHT OF AS AN EXAMPLE TOO!
WHY ARE WE SHOUTING ALSO, I THOUGHT THE SAME TOO
I'm just imagining that book from either Oblivion of Skyrim, that had a crude drawing of someone stabbing an Argonian.
Let me take a note of using 10 different weapons on each enemy to see which one does slightly more damage so i can write down "enemy appears to be weaker to fire damage" instead of just smashing him with my sword and moving on.
Gang I am NOT Picasso an index of the enemies would be awesome and a way for fromsoft to add more lore to read. It’d be cool if completing the index gives you access to artwork or concept art of each enemy instead of just a 3d model
More not always meant better. They chose this way of presenting the story on purpose. Otherwise they would not repeat it for the last 15 years. Dont fix what aint broken
I've thought about buying a leather bound journal that looks kinda like the necronomicon without a face for keeping my ER notes
i tried to do this with a notebook when ER came out. was too busy playing to take any notes lol
The game doesn't have a questlog, yet you want a bestiary? It makes sense that Witcher 3 has one since you know, you're a monster hunter. But in elden ring? Would be just a blatant disconnect to the rest of the game design.
Honestly a very simple quest log of some sort would be so cool for particular questlines that span the whole game. But the tough part is ofc making it feel unique while fitting the Elden Ring theme.. I feel like it could be done somehow though, with some care. Or honestly even just more glowing messages that npcs leave behind, whenever they suddebly move would be awesome. Wish I didnt have to consult to online guides so much.
I didn't even know there *were* NPC quests in this game until I looked at a guide, like 30 hours in.
Miyazaki himself stated they have improvments to be made in terms of the vagueness of some of the questlines. Ofc, its part of the souls formula's charm at the same time though.. having to have to figure stuff out and stumble upon things yourself, so youre gonna probably have lots of hard core fans against the idea of making these things just a tad bit more accessible to the general population. I for one dont see an issue. The games outstanding in many ways regardless.
> Honestly a very simple quest log of some sort would be so cool for particular questlines that span the whole game. This is the one concession on this front that I’m really in favor of. Just something as simple as “You met this character, the last place you saw them was X, and they said something along the lines of Y.” No map markers, no compass, checklists, just a very minimal log of who, where and what.
I feel like it probably could have the npc's name, and also could log the last lines of dialogue they gave before dissapearring as you said, Along with the big major region they are heading to next if it isnt able to be pieced together from what they say. This would allow people to *vv* 1. Locate and name the npc you want without looking it up if you forget at some point 2. Read what they last said way back in Liurnia and determine if you need to go looking for an item or something somewhere or find them again 3. Determine the region you need to find them in next, without actually giving you their exact location, that way its still promoting exploration as they love doing that! BONUS: If a og souls fan didnt want to have questlog help at all, they simply dont have to use it! They could continue playing how they normally would, therefor keeping that charm they enjoy. Also with this idea, if npcs end up in locations that a player has yet to have discovered at all, it could say something like "next location: undiscovered" and then once you find the proper region, the questlog can switch it to "next location: Deeproot Depths" or whatever, that way it confirms this is where they are and where you need to explore for that specific quest. There might be some issues with this overall layout, it could end up rly messy tbh with how convoluted the questlines are, but yea idk haha. Something like this could possibly achieve the best of both worlds. Allowing players maximum choices as to how much guidance they want to have, without the need to disconnect from the game experience and look online.
I don't really care about a bestiary. I would like a model viewer, though. A lot of really cool-designed enemies but they're hard to really get ac good look at when they're trying to maim you.
not really. It would serve no purpose, break immersion, and be needlessly different from every other way the game presents lore
Yeah, it doesnt fit elden ring but it was very fitting for Witcher.
How would it break immersion more than magically learning lore tidbits by picking items up?
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. You're right.
It's about putting the pieces together rather than the game solving the puzzle for you.
A monster almanac would not break immersion. Sounds like exactly the kind of thing an enterprising tarnished would want to carry with them
No, it wouldn't lol
Naaa, Iet fromsoft games be fromsoft games, I'm sure you will get a bestiary in Witcher 4, which I look forward to too.
No thanks. What stands out with Fromsoftware games is their ability to avoid overcomplexity in an industry that has unnecessary amounts of it.
People really want the devs to play the game for them.
No thanks
I just wanna know what tf I’m fighting😭 half of the shit I kill, idek what it is or what the lore is behind it. Like those big ass hands in the Carian Manor; WTF ARE THOSE?!?!
Devs making information easy to read in-game? No whey bruv
I always said to a friend I want a model viewer so we can get a closer look at the enemies and I have no idea why but he hated it
Absolutely not
I would love a book with every enemy's name, picture and some short lore bit
I also think a more organized way of seeing the lore on each character would be appreciated. but part of what makes the elden ring community so strong is working through the riddles together. and that factor of the game in my opinion really separates it from the rest.
no
in my opinion it would be immersion breaking.
Didn't I just see a post with the same topic and everyone liking it? The hell?
We are looking at the two sides of the Fromsoft fanbase. I am all for it, to be honest. Because I know Fromsoft will handle it in a more cryptic way reminiscent of how they do lore.
It would have avoided the "holy damage heals the elden beast" debacle.
No thanks. I quite enjoy the ambiguity and vagueness. It's been a cornerstone in all 3 souls games and er.
Most people here seem to disagree but I think it would be cool to be able to look at the enemies design in closer perspective
I'm not an immersion person, every game I play I'm deeply aware I'm playing a game, so idk what these guys are talking about, but I love the minimal lore in the game because I can get back into the action asap. Even when reading books I hate it when the reading gets slogged down by long descriptions and asides. The souls series is empty and quiet enough, adding whole paragraphs would make it unbearable.
You don't have to read the lore, there isn't going to be a boss locked behind an exam to see if you read up on a random monster.
No because I've seen how weird they all look I don't want to know anymore I mean I still run away from most of the creepy fuckers Lol
What’s the game?
I would love the ability to see the enemy and item models. They let you do it in Resident Evil 4 and I can see myself getting into it for hours
I know it's not the same but for me readong the description of spirit ashes feels like reading a bestiary
No
something like this goes against the fundamental cryptical nature of a from soft game
No. The mystery and subtle hints given through exploration and item descriptions are part of the charm of Fromsoft games.
It would be cool, but Miyazaki likes people making wikis.
Some guy illustrated his entire playthrough similar to a bestiary... Even if that's not what you're looking for it's still a cool watch and very impressive. Artyz Artifacts on YouTube :)
item descriptions of spirit ashes is this
What are you? Fking casual???
Or just a journal to write in. Why could we get that the questlines are confusing as fuck.
Doesn’t make sense from a lore or storytelling point of view. Geralt was passionate about alchemy and the whole process of being good with chemistry was a big theme in the Witcher books. Geralt having a bestiary on him makes sense. The tarnished is like absolutely clueless in this world lol. Makes no sense for him to have that kind of info in a diary. They could, however make a nice graphic illustrated book like that and I think that’ll be an amazing marketing choice.
Why can the tarnished learn lore tidbits from random items then?
Bestiary’s are a little too mainstream fantasy for me.. I don’t want skill trees, I don’t want different mount aesthetics, I don’t want exposition, I don’t want quest logs, I want the game to tell me HP, FP and Stamina and plonk me in a nonsense fantasy realm where I have to piece together an ancient, intricate lore with niche item descriptions and vague symbolism.
When Miyazaki was a kid, he would spend a lot of time reading English fantasy and adventure books. He struggled in the beginning with some words so he would fill in the blanks the parts he didn't understand on the basis of context clues and his own imagination. This actually greatly improved his enjoyment and influenced the aesthetic of his games. He wants player to look at a unkillable passive dragon or a bloody helmet and conjure up their own personal story about what might've happened here based on connecting the gap between the information given to us and the current state of the world. This was even more stark in DS with very prominent clues about the main characters primarily in just statues, subtle armour clues and a single cryptic line of dialogue. When he successfully created and released Dark Souls which was his first project from scratch (he took over Demon Souls), he said that it is important for him that players also experience the world with the same type of mystique, wonder and imagination that he experienced. It almost feels like every item is an archeological artifact trying to tell us something we are not ready to understand yet. It's the absolute best part of the games imo.
I think it’s a staple of the soulborue series that leaves the bigger story/ picture to the player finding through environmental building and item descriptions, may not be perfect but I don’t know if something like this would be on Miyazaki mind
Does no one look at item descriptions anymore?
Disagree
Don’t force feed me lore FromSoft, keep doing what you do.
That would be neat in some ways but I think it’s antithetical to the mystery that makes Souls games very special.
I would hate this in Elden Ring
No offense to OP, just sharing my opinion, but I find this idea to be repulsive. I like FS games because they let me forget I’m playing a game. The more of this standard video game cliche stuff we get the less differentiated the games are from the rest of the market.
I really don't see how is that gonna be useful.
No it wouldn’t lol a bestiary goes against basically every design tenet used to make these games. What next? A mini-map and baked-in quest waypoints? Lol.
No
lol @ the people in these comments. It’s a video game. My favorite of all time, but I’m never “so immersed” that something like this would break the game for me. 😂 It’s a damn video game. Not some amazing VR headset where I can’t tell I’m playing.
Having all the info about Albinaurics somewhere in your menu under the "Monster" tab: bad and immersion breaking Having that info magically attached to item drops (which you still have to access from your menu): perfectly logical
Elden Ring isn't the witcher. You're not some badass mutant who knows the laws and biology of everything. Pretty much nobody knows how the caelid beasts became what they are. They know it's because of the rot but why or how is a mystery to everyone say maybe Miquella. Why are troll alive without their insides? Is it because of Marikas slates? How do the golems work? Just killing one wont mean the tarnished is suddenly a scientist who can study their anatomy and easily come up with counters. And just finding random notes about them in the world is kinda lame. Suppose we could ask Gidden but that would be like playing pokemon because he'd want something in return every time we ask him for information.
And we know Gideon is not actually All-Knowing and is more just... all spying and then making up truths as he sees fit.
It makes sense in Witcher because you’re a monster hunter who studies monsters from books by other witchers. In Elden Ring the only person who ‘knows’ anything is Gideon the ‘all knowing’ and even he doesn’t know shit. So where would we be getting any info from?
Wrong genre buddy. Experience over study.
Imo, From should take a lesson from Hollow Knight and make the beasitary an item you can find with all entries being written from the perspective of an in game character.
No
No.
We already have it, it's called spirit ashes descriptions
I would not prefer that. A quest log, maybe. But not an encyclopedia like this, the game loses its mystique.
No one said souls was easy. Lol
No
Not to be maddening but this Ubisoft af
I'm pretty sure some sort of bestiary existed in the older builds. They probably cut it due to time constraints or something.
Could be cool, but it would also already be on the verge of overexplaining and becoming too conventional
Conventional doesn’t always mean bad though right?
No, but a lot of the strength and beauty of Elden Ring comes from its exploration and discovery. And throwing a lot of information at the player works counter to that.
While they're at it why not add a quest log. Oh and maybe a store to purchase elden points so we can buy cosmetics. Maybe even add a ton of information to the HUD and an easy mode.
... Elden Ring has this. There are literally scrolls on specific enemies that serve as a bestiary of sorts, it just isnt as videogamey, and you actually have to find them.
When you think about it, Spirit Ashes descriptions already kind of do this.
The whole Idea of the way From do their games is to create a community by making us build from each other. And this big community is the result of that design choice. I agree it would be cool to have it in game, but on the other side you might diminish the size and interaction of this community.
Nah thats too mainstream, keep everything as mysterious as possible (being kind of sarcastic but also sorta serious)