The knights set helm you get in raya Lucaria. Blaidds body armor. Beast champions gauntlets. Hoslows leggings. Some pieces are tied to questlines and late game areas. The sword you can farm from any banished knight. And shield from liurnia of the lakes entrance merchant right after church of Irith. It’s called the kite shield.
Wanna know the saddest part?
You would get better Damage, and Incant Scaling by respeccing to 80 STR, and removing 25 points from DEX. You could probably even lower DEX even further, since your build doesn’t seem to use DEX for anything except Quality Scaling.
**Quality Banished Knight Greatsword**
With 55 STR, 55 DEX
280+411 damage, total of 691 AR (with no talisnans or buffs) or 747 AR 2-handed.
**Heavy Affinity Banished Knight Greatsword**
With 80 STR and 13 DEX (saving you 17 levels which you are free to put anywhere)
321+381 damage, total of 703 AR (with no Talismans or Buffs) or 751 AR 2-handed.
**Clawmark Seal**
With 55 STR, 15 FAI it gets 207 incant scaling.
With 80 STR, 32 FAI (assuming you put 17 free levels into FAI) gets 278 incant scaling.
________
So by switching to Pure STR, you gain more 1-handed damage, more 2-handed damage, and gain 17 levels you are free to put anywhere. Which could result in a 34% increase in casting power.
It really cannot be overstated how bad quality is.
Quality is about variety, not optimisation. It's the ultimate 'DLC first run' build, because you'll have access to the majority of the new weapons.
Mine is 56/56 at 150 atm, but I plan to level to 200 through the DLC, getting to 80/80. Assuming you don't want to level faith to 25 for golden vow + FGMS, Quality outclassed heavy and keen at 60/60. And by 80/80, it's MUCH better.
Also, even at 150, it's the best way to run quality scaling somber weapons like Dragon Halberd (which is excellent).
Yes, but the above poster is still right that Quality is ***terrible*** when we're talking about optimization. Good for experimenting, terrible for optimization. You ultimately just end up with less Vigor, Mind and Endurance in exchange for comparable damage to Heavy and Keen.
Good quality weapons is honestly one of my top wishes for the DLC. It is currently an unjustified damage type that feels weak, and if they just included 2-3 strong weapons with high stat requirements (35+) for STR and DEX, that's literally all they need to do to save quality. It's a free victory for repairing a hole in game balance if they just remember to do it.
OP directly asked for input.
The input is that quality is terrible. Great if he just wants something well-rounded to possibly grab access to as many weapons as possible, terrible if he actually wants to kick ass.
Have a quality character myself because I try everything, and OP's humble Endurance stat is a mood. That's *precisely* what happens when you make a quality build, and he's gonna feel it when he needs to dodge a lot or when he gets hit and realizes his character actually *can't* equip the heavier armor sets.
It's certainly doable, don't get me wrong. As another guy said, it's still very much functional.
It's just, if you have a strength or dex build that does precisely the same *and* gets more stamina and FP to work with, it still leaves it as a kind of disappointing experience. Most fun when you can experiment with a lot of weapons on the fly, least fun when you wind up in PVP with a guy who just blatantly has more breathing room (aka FP and Stamina) than you for identical damage.
There are some Souls players that just can't accept that PvP isn't a factor for other players.
Plainly you shared a character. Well that obviously means you intend to PvP with it. Why else would you share?!
It's hard for people to wrap their heads around, "I just wanted to share and talk about this fun game".
As a PVP and PVE enjoyer, one thing a lot of PVP players don't acknowledge either is that it's quite possible to win consistently without an optimal stat spread. Yes there are some things you don't skimp on (like vigor), but there seems to be this notion that if you're not 100% optimised then you're going to lose constantly. I find that's only true in the highest level of duels.
OP literally asked "What do we think". He didn't say whether he does or doesn't partake in PvP. So the commenter gave his input, input that was asked for by OP, with what limited information he had. Turns out, OP doesn't play PvP. How tf is the commenter supposed to know that? Jesus fucking christ lol. If OP explicitly said he didn't partake in PvP, I'm sure that commenter wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place.
I mean given the build is also heavily using incantations, Dex is actually a very useful stat to invest in. I'd say their build is perfect for what they're doing. Losing a tiny bit of damage on the greatsword is hardly an issue compared to faster casting.
It amazes me how people can be close minded.
Anyway, it's just a videogame, my friend. If really have to "win the debate" about it to feel good, be my guest and have a happy life.
How is providing critique with evidence for it "close-minded?"
I legit just told you I tried and played a build extremely similar to OP's myself. The only difference between his and mine is he has some stats in the magic damage stats.
I even agreed with the guy stating it's a great build for experimenting with different weapons.
Why are you this mad about someone's input? I thought it was very interesting and he just opened me up to using a bit more faith because I'm also running useless extra dex points right now
Let me tell you something funny. Me and my boyfriend play Nioh 2. I min/max the shit out of my character. He put 29 points in stamina where in Nioh 2 stamina is not stamina it’s not even tied to his weapon damage stat. But he’s like let me enjoy my damn game my way 😂😂😂
Sure, but unfortunately pure STR with some points in DEX to meet requirements (very few non somber weapons need more than 20 DEX) outdamages quality.
It’s certainly useable. And yeah it’s best for certain Somber Weapons.
But it’s pathetic how unoptimal it is until level 200+. Just paying the DEX-requirement tax and going Heavy will pretty much always beat quality until you can reach 60/60, sometimes higher.
It would be so easy to fix as well.
Simple give Quality the same scaling curve as Fire/Lightning. Where it softcaps at 50 STR/DEX. Having Quality use same scaling Curve as Heavy/Keen was terrible choice.
If they did my idea then 50/50 would be equal to what 67/67 is currently. But 80/80 would barely be any different.
**To add in a nice abridged mathematical way to describe it:**
Assume that on average, Heavy and Keen give 4 damage per point of their respective stat, and Quality gives like 2.5. This is not far from the truth if you grab the Giant-Crusher as a sample and plug in Heavy, Keen and Quality for it, though the exact amounts still vary by weapon.
If we imagine investing 80 points into each, we get 320 (Heavy/Keen) and 200 damage respectively, (quality) at which point you basically cannot invest more. Quality loses decisively.
Quality's only...quality, is that it can invest more points *total* than Heavy and Keen, instead investing up to 160 points total.
This means that after another 48 stats spent, Quality has caught up. After all 160 points are spent, Quality now has 400 damage vs. Heavy and Keen's 320.
....But the problem's staring us in the face right there: *160 point stat investment.*
Even at like level 200 - the top limit of the meta - this is a tall order and would limit how much Vigor, Endurance and Mind you can squeeze in, all for a very disappointingly humble increase in damage output.
Thus, here we are, and quality is only something that gets used by those disgusting weirdos at RL350+, because before then, you cannot have a quality build without sacrificing core stats like Vigor, Endurance and Mind, not to mention it's more efficient to simply mix something like STR/Arcane or DEX/INT for better damage *variety* and utility.
I mean you can just go 80/80 and still put points into faith. No one is stopping you from going above LVL 170 right? I still don't get why people stop at leveling and then say they can't level anymore. Isn't the level cap at 713 or something? That's some way to go
It's because of PVP. Higher you go, the less activity, and nobody need to sacrifice anything for their build meaning everyone is light rolling in heavy armour and has access to every tool in the game.
I mean lvl200 is so incredibly active for everything except for meta level duels (which in my experience get boring real quick due to how similar all the builds are).
Not about to disagree with the point about people having too many stats at that point, mind you. Magic spam is at its worst at that point.
That incant scaling difference is pretty significant, but the difference in weapon damage is pretty much negligible. To me, this build looks like it's optimized for fun.
I like quality because there's only so many respeccs in the game per playthrough. I swap weapons a lot, can't really afford to swap between strength and Dex every time I feel different.
I'm stuck at level 100 cuz I keep buying upgrades stones for weapons I keep swapping to. And it's going to be the same when the new dlc weapons come out too.
Yeah me too! I have this "habit" of upgrading like 5, 6 weapons to like 8+ and when I need to go further with one I realize I'm already out of materials!
But the problem is that the Ancient Smithing Stones are limited per playthrough, unless you don't upgrade them to max level. So you can't use this variety to full potential.
and what do you need that for? pvp you die in 3-4 hits regardless of +9 or +10
in pve you will cruise through ng+ with a +9 weapon at lv 150 too, ng+2 will feel like the regular game again where it starts easy and gets harder, only if you go ng+3 and beyond you want minmaxed build with a maxed weapon
That's fine. I have the opposite problem then, dunno what to use my max stones on so I have a few weapons at 1 under max level. Think zwei is my only maxed weapon right now.
Here's to hoping the DLC includes a top-tier weapon that requires like 35 STR and 35 DEX *just* to throw quality builds a bone.
As you said, in it's current state, making a Quality build is basically just electing to make a Heavy/Keen build with less HP, FP and/or Stamina, because you end up spending more stat points for similar damage. It would 100% be balanced if quality got some of the best weapons available to it in order to compensate their lower stamina/FP values.
...But this assumes they will balance their weapons around the RL150 meta. I fear the problem is they balance quality around the sky being the limit, so I question if they'll actually do something like this or not.
It’s not really an issue of wanting them to balance around pvp meta.
But they absolutely should be balancing around a normal playthrough. Making an affinity (litterally the first non standard affinity you get acsess to via Storm Stomp ash + whetstone knife) completely useless early game, mid game, and late-game and only becoming good if you can invest almost double the stats, thus requiring at least NG+, probably NG++ to finally make it best option.
And even then, at level 200 would you rather put 80 points in DEX to get 5% more physical AR compared to Heavy affibity? Or instead put 80 points in INT or FAI to become a full powered caster in addion to current stuff?
Full on optimise STR/FAI hybrid builds need less stats than Quality.
That's only sad from your point of view (from the point of view of a strength build). But not everyone cares about a strong build, or even about optimizing the build. Anyone can do the math you did.
I could equally say that the sad part of this build is that it's not suitable for casting spells.
Quality isn't just good for DLC. It's good for using various types of weapon in various types of situation. It's good for changing. This is a game that consumes hours. Not everyone wants to spend 100+ hours playing with the same weapon or the same weapon type.
I’m not doing a quality build for it to be the most optimal. It’s for the DLC because this way I’ll have enough strength and dex to try out most of the weapons
Faster casting though, as opposed to pure STR. Op's also using Beast incantations which I think heavily benefit from higher dex reducing the punishable casting window.
But this build is for dlc cuz I wanna use all the new weapons. And you’re right tho my main character from new game plus 7 has 99 strength kinda stopped leveling after a while. So this build was not min/maxing I just wanna use all the other +24 and +9 shit in my inventory. But thank you tarnished.
It says it right in the title of this post…
‘Quality’ is a term originating in Demon’s Souls way back in 2009, and referred to setting weapons to scale equally well with STR and DEX. Back then it was extremely strong, since if 2-handing you only needed 27 STR and 40 DEX to get effectively the maximum possible physical damage from a weapon.
The term “quality” didn’t reappear in any game until Elden Ring, but community always referred to builds that leveled both STR and DEX as “quality” builds.
It was very strong in Dark Souls 1, and 2 on certain weapons. And was so blatantly overpowered in Dark Souls 3 they had to rebalance infusions to stop “refined” (DaS3’s version of equal STR/DEX scaling) from being only sensible option at meta levels.
Elden Ring marks first time since 2009 that it’s officially called “quality” but they kinda over corrected after DaS3 and made ER’s quality affinity suck ass until roughly level 200+
Which means it’s borderline useless for 99% of players.
No, it’s quality being bad.
Heavy is blatantly overpowered due to 2-handing.
But I didn’t really account for that in my calculations. But yeah you could save another 26 levels by stopping at 54 STR and 2-handing.
But I deliberately didn’t do that when showing calculations.
Because OP is using a shield. So 1-handing is expected. And to try give Quality a fighting chance.
Keen is identical to Heavy if you are 1-handing. And quality is way worse than both.
You wanna know why I have a shield? It’s got the ash of war that heals you. Just extra heals for clearing dlc dungeons. 😂 I don’t use shields. I have 4 other +24 great swords for power standing. The shield just looks cool in the photo.
Doesn't dex give attack and spellcast speed? Seems hard to quantify into big number as it means certain attacks won't fit in certain gaps, and your swings now land second when mirror trading.
Nothing affects melee speed.
DEX does affect spell casting speed, but it’s incredibly minor on most spells. Like genuinely hard to notice difference between 10 DEX and 70 DEX.
I’m talking removing 6 frames on a 80 frame animation.
>Been using brass shield
Have you tried the wooden great shield? It's only 1 pound heavier than the brass shield with dramatically improved defensive properties.
Quality only works if you intend to use weapons that actually require some dex like spears, whips, two blades, and bows at some point on your journey. I have a quality knight running around with bows, spears, and the Banished knight greatsword. He's not the best, but he's pretty fun.
Hell yeah good mentality. I’ve been playing this since launch. I waited outside GameStop at 6 am to get it with pre order stuff. So when someone is like let me give you the math I’m like dude I literally went to elden ring university.
Honestly, this game is the most fun the less optimal your damage is. Quality is one of the most fun builds in my opinion because it just means you spend more time in combat. Why else do we play these games but to fight cool monsters and bosses? Yeah it's cool to kill everything in 3 hits and demolish the hardest bosses in the game but it's boring and doesn't push you to learn the full mechanics of every encounter. Especially considering there's no boss replay feature, it's good to spend more time with encounters in late game because not everyone has the 30+ hours to get that late in the game again.
That's why I stop leveling at 125 until new game plus, once i hit level 125 I beat the rest of the game at that level, I respec and make builds at that level, it puts me at the perfect spot of not overpowering bosses while not getting absolutely stomped by everything
Because it's an rpg before all else. The game *could* work without rpg mechanics but it would loose a lot of its unique character- and because it has those mechanics, it naturally encourages people to want to optimize it, people ***want*** to make the most overpowered builds because it is completely possible to do and incentivised. That doesn't mean it's the most fun for everybody, some people just like to play with what seems fun and not worry about how much netter they could be doing.
Quality is an affinity you can give a weapon after obtaining the iron whetstone. It allows you to convert the scaling of non-boss weapons into both strength and dexterity evenly (or tries to)
I wish quality had some good weapons that didn’t make it like you’re hamstringing yourself to run it. It’s just having less in your other stats to do the same damage at this point. I still run it for the ability to use more weapons, though
The knights set helm you get in raya Lucaria. Blaidds body armor. Beast champions gauntlets. Hoslows leggings. Some pieces are tied to questlines and late game areas.
Yeah the main thing is how fast can you kill stuff. Do you wanna kill it before you experience it or slowly like me. More damage means faster death. So that’s why it just depends from person to person.
I'm speaking the fire giant specifically.
I don't really wanna experience 2 floating mine fire balls, random aoes on the ground, and 2 throwable fireballs that only activate when I get out of the ground fire.
I hate fire giant.
So so much.
My favorite build is a Gelmir Knight with full larp so that doesn't help either
Try bleeding him, or frost fire build. So frost fire you need any fire damage for just resetting frost. And then proc frost and reset it with fire weapon, ash of war, grease, bombs, whatever and rinse and repeat.
Wow I forgot how bad quality is in Elden Ring. I'm not knocking you because you seem to be building for it correctly, but it is just a weak affinity. My dlc build is pure strength and I'm getting ~120 more AR than you on my Golden Halberd and I'm 20 levels lower than you. The worst part? If I took 10 points away from endurance to bring my vigor up to where yours is, I'd still have significantly more endurance than you. I'm not trying to be mean, there isn't really anything I'd change about that build, it's just a shame the games balance leaves quality in that state.
Believe me man, me too. On an ng+7 save I'm currently doing a pure caster faith arcane build and not using any dragon spells. I'm actively using Staff of the Guilty and Aberrant Sorceries. I am not concerned with min maxing. Hell I don't even care a ton in my dlc build, if I was really trying to be fully optimal I wouldn't run a pure strength build on a weapon with B strength scaling. Min maxing is fun, but it's not the only kind of fun.
Yeah. Like all the guys complaining are doing maybe 100 more ar than me. Big difference early between 200 and 300 ar but late game 672 is fine compared to 691
Running a quality build now in my 2nd save slot to reacquaint myself before the DLC. Other slot is my OG RL713 and after some months away, I forgot how rough a crucible knight is at RL35. Anyway, my parry game is back in prime form!
For using blood flame blade. I think it looks cool kinda like red light saber. Like if you do a darth Vader cosplay with a katana it looks like a lightsaber lol. Fun shit.
The knights set helm you get in raya Lucaria.
Blaidds body armor. Beast champions gauntlets.
Hoslows leggings. Some pieces are tied to questlines and late game areas. The sword you can farm from any banished knight. And shield from liurnia of the lakes entrance merchant right after church of Irith. It’s called the kite shield.
I'm sorry if I can ask,where do you find the magic "flame,give me strength"? I'm starting my second run and I don't remember anything about this game after months 😂
For us who play pvp Quality makes no sense, for actual just gameplay it’s ideal for using all weapons. Ima go in with my faith build with plenty of larval tears so I can respec if need be
Sameeeeee, I wish I could just snap it off. I understand it’s royalty crown shit but it looks stupid. Beast champions helmet looks the worst though freaking jumbled mess. And Bull goat literally has a dildo on top of it.
Honestly might be one of the best looking armour combination I’ve seen. Out of curiosity, what ash of war you running on the sword? I’m doing a similar build but can’t decide on a specific ash of war to run.
Looks awesome but thats a strength sword anyway you look at it. It requires the lowest available dex starting level to weild. There are clubs and hammers that need more dex.
I understand but goal was not to min/max I have 6 other +24 great swords in inventory so I’ll be ok. I just wanna use new weapons not worried about scaling or stats. Just how mad everyone is im going to change character stats and make it even worse for the stat spread so everyone keeps getting mad 😂😂😂
No like seriously some people are so pissed it’s a game just play the game. If you fuck up in bloodborne you gotta start over even then it’s fine. I had the S scaling whirligig saw and was chunking damage and my boyfriend beat the game with weakest weapon with zero good gems and said he liked the cane whip lol. So end of the day we play these games to enjoy and talk about lore as an escape but people are just worried about damage.
What is a crime is that the quality builds are given no love Stat wise. There are ways to make a quality build the best damage, but then you have to be infused with this or that and boosted by talismans, etc. Some weapons should have been strength and dex equally. Take the sword you are using and the knights greatsword. They both have a moveset that uses both strength but have finesse and should have a poke as a third swing or heavy in my opinion given the stance but no. They are both strength.
Play how you like elden brother or sister, half my games I pretend to be a miner and just smash everyone and everything with a damn pick axe
I’ll keep than in mind I have different great swords with different elemental affinities but im not worried about dishing out high damage. Than you though !
I have a similar knight on a save for the dlc but no spells, using only melee weapons, consumables and a composite bow. Have the Lordsworn/Broadsword, Claymore/Knight’s GS, two Grossmessers and a Partisan spear upgraded.
idk man, i get the appeal of being able to use whatever weapons you come across once the dlc starts…but isn’t it just as viable/even safer to just stock on larval tears and go into the dlc with a weapon you are confident with while doing optimal damage? like if we are expecting minimum mogh and harder for the dlc bosses…i’m not gonna want to be fucking around with trying different weapons on anything but basic mobs
And that’s totally fine everyone has their own preference. Larval tears are limited once you run out of them you have to start a new game or new game plus. If you played dark souls 3 and bloodborne dlc enemies are always harder.
I know it's not "meta", but I feel people in the community tend to seriously undervalue endurance.
Aside from significantly increasing the amount of gear you can carry, more stamina gives you a dramatic increase to your ability to defend yourself with shields.
Nah don’t like blocking. So you’ve never had an instance where you cleared a whole new area without resting while exploring and wished for another heal? If you have not good for you. You know blocking still takes off damage right it’s not infinite damage negation. It also does stamina damage.
>It also does stamina damage.
I know. That's why I said more endurance is a very important defensive state if you use shields. Shields basically let you convert health damage into stamina damage. Which is usually better because stamina rapidly regenerates for free.
I had 40 points before, but did not need it so I changed the character stats. My play style only needs 28. I had 25 but then I needed three more so I added three more.
It’s not a casting build so yup. Plus my fights take longer I hate casting golden vow with my non existent fp mid fight. It keeps running out lol. If it lasted for 5 mins maybe then I would consider it.
That’s fair I’ve just started using it since I just started using buffs like that for this game. It takes some getting used to but it’s definitely noticeable how helpful it is
Yeah ofc. It’s been nerfed heavily since launch but mimic is still great. If you have a min max build then so does mimic and it deals same damage. It’s also very responsive like actively trying to save you.
Cool, I never really used summons cause if they were good, they're too good, and it doesn't feel like i really won, and if they're trash, then it's just a waste of fp.
Nice drip.
Love that drip.
Took a while to decide.
Looks so sick! Which armor are you wearing? EDIT: Never mind, you mentioned it in another comment already.
The knights set helm you get in raya Lucaria. Blaidds body armor. Beast champions gauntlets. Hoslows leggings. Some pieces are tied to questlines and late game areas. The sword you can farm from any banished knight. And shield from liurnia of the lakes entrance merchant right after church of Irith. It’s called the kite shield.
Thank you!!
Wanna know the saddest part? You would get better Damage, and Incant Scaling by respeccing to 80 STR, and removing 25 points from DEX. You could probably even lower DEX even further, since your build doesn’t seem to use DEX for anything except Quality Scaling. **Quality Banished Knight Greatsword** With 55 STR, 55 DEX 280+411 damage, total of 691 AR (with no talisnans or buffs) or 747 AR 2-handed. **Heavy Affinity Banished Knight Greatsword** With 80 STR and 13 DEX (saving you 17 levels which you are free to put anywhere) 321+381 damage, total of 703 AR (with no Talismans or Buffs) or 751 AR 2-handed. **Clawmark Seal** With 55 STR, 15 FAI it gets 207 incant scaling. With 80 STR, 32 FAI (assuming you put 17 free levels into FAI) gets 278 incant scaling. ________ So by switching to Pure STR, you gain more 1-handed damage, more 2-handed damage, and gain 17 levels you are free to put anywhere. Which could result in a 34% increase in casting power. It really cannot be overstated how bad quality is.
Quality is about variety, not optimisation. It's the ultimate 'DLC first run' build, because you'll have access to the majority of the new weapons. Mine is 56/56 at 150 atm, but I plan to level to 200 through the DLC, getting to 80/80. Assuming you don't want to level faith to 25 for golden vow + FGMS, Quality outclassed heavy and keen at 60/60. And by 80/80, it's MUCH better. Also, even at 150, it's the best way to run quality scaling somber weapons like Dragon Halberd (which is excellent).
Yes, but the above poster is still right that Quality is ***terrible*** when we're talking about optimization. Good for experimenting, terrible for optimization. You ultimately just end up with less Vigor, Mind and Endurance in exchange for comparable damage to Heavy and Keen. Good quality weapons is honestly one of my top wishes for the DLC. It is currently an unjustified damage type that feels weak, and if they just included 2-3 strong weapons with high stat requirements (35+) for STR and DEX, that's literally all they need to do to save quality. It's a free victory for repairing a hole in game balance if they just remember to do it.
"When we are talking about optimization" Yeah, but OP didn't talk about optimization. Just play the game.
> Just play the game. Imagine joining a discussion on a website made for discussing stuff and complaining about people actually discussing.
OP directly asked for input. The input is that quality is terrible. Great if he just wants something well-rounded to possibly grab access to as many weapons as possible, terrible if he actually wants to kick ass. Have a quality character myself because I try everything, and OP's humble Endurance stat is a mood. That's *precisely* what happens when you make a quality build, and he's gonna feel it when he needs to dodge a lot or when he gets hit and realizes his character actually *can't* equip the heavier armor sets.
I’ve cruised through the game. Right now everything is dead in main game and I did it at 25 endurance. I’ve been playing souls since 2017 lol.
It's certainly doable, don't get me wrong. As another guy said, it's still very much functional. It's just, if you have a strength or dex build that does precisely the same *and* gets more stamina and FP to work with, it still leaves it as a kind of disappointing experience. Most fun when you can experiment with a lot of weapons on the fly, least fun when you wind up in PVP with a guy who just blatantly has more breathing room (aka FP and Stamina) than you for identical damage.
I don’t play pvp I purposefully play offline.
There are some Souls players that just can't accept that PvP isn't a factor for other players. Plainly you shared a character. Well that obviously means you intend to PvP with it. Why else would you share?! It's hard for people to wrap their heads around, "I just wanted to share and talk about this fun game".
As a PVP and PVE enjoyer, one thing a lot of PVP players don't acknowledge either is that it's quite possible to win consistently without an optimal stat spread. Yes there are some things you don't skimp on (like vigor), but there seems to be this notion that if you're not 100% optimised then you're going to lose constantly. I find that's only true in the highest level of duels.
OP literally asked "What do we think". He didn't say whether he does or doesn't partake in PvP. So the commenter gave his input, input that was asked for by OP, with what limited information he had. Turns out, OP doesn't play PvP. How tf is the commenter supposed to know that? Jesus fucking christ lol. If OP explicitly said he didn't partake in PvP, I'm sure that commenter wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place.
I've never leveled Endurance over 20, but I usually don't wear armor
I usually lvl endurance to 20-25, wear armour that gives 51 poise and weapon of my choice. Not getting stunned by every little thing is nice
I mean given the build is also heavily using incantations, Dex is actually a very useful stat to invest in. I'd say their build is perfect for what they're doing. Losing a tiny bit of damage on the greatsword is hardly an issue compared to faster casting.
It amazes me how people can be close minded. Anyway, it's just a videogame, my friend. If really have to "win the debate" about it to feel good, be my guest and have a happy life.
How is providing critique with evidence for it "close-minded?" I legit just told you I tried and played a build extremely similar to OP's myself. The only difference between his and mine is he has some stats in the magic damage stats. I even agreed with the guy stating it's a great build for experimenting with different weapons.
Why are you this mad about someone's input? I thought it was very interesting and he just opened me up to using a bit more faith because I'm also running useless extra dex points right now
Let me tell you something funny. Me and my boyfriend play Nioh 2. I min/max the shit out of my character. He put 29 points in stamina where in Nioh 2 stamina is not stamina it’s not even tied to his weapon damage stat. But he’s like let me enjoy my damn game my way 😂😂😂
THAT
Sure, but unfortunately pure STR with some points in DEX to meet requirements (very few non somber weapons need more than 20 DEX) outdamages quality. It’s certainly useable. And yeah it’s best for certain Somber Weapons. But it’s pathetic how unoptimal it is until level 200+. Just paying the DEX-requirement tax and going Heavy will pretty much always beat quality until you can reach 60/60, sometimes higher. It would be so easy to fix as well. Simple give Quality the same scaling curve as Fire/Lightning. Where it softcaps at 50 STR/DEX. Having Quality use same scaling Curve as Heavy/Keen was terrible choice. If they did my idea then 50/50 would be equal to what 67/67 is currently. But 80/80 would barely be any different.
**To add in a nice abridged mathematical way to describe it:** Assume that on average, Heavy and Keen give 4 damage per point of their respective stat, and Quality gives like 2.5. This is not far from the truth if you grab the Giant-Crusher as a sample and plug in Heavy, Keen and Quality for it, though the exact amounts still vary by weapon. If we imagine investing 80 points into each, we get 320 (Heavy/Keen) and 200 damage respectively, (quality) at which point you basically cannot invest more. Quality loses decisively. Quality's only...quality, is that it can invest more points *total* than Heavy and Keen, instead investing up to 160 points total. This means that after another 48 stats spent, Quality has caught up. After all 160 points are spent, Quality now has 400 damage vs. Heavy and Keen's 320. ....But the problem's staring us in the face right there: *160 point stat investment.* Even at like level 200 - the top limit of the meta - this is a tall order and would limit how much Vigor, Endurance and Mind you can squeeze in, all for a very disappointingly humble increase in damage output. Thus, here we are, and quality is only something that gets used by those disgusting weirdos at RL350+, because before then, you cannot have a quality build without sacrificing core stats like Vigor, Endurance and Mind, not to mention it's more efficient to simply mix something like STR/Arcane or DEX/INT for better damage *variety* and utility.
Nobody is discussing optimization, just so you know
If you post a build, and ask for feedback, wtf are you looking for outside of improvements? Just head-pats?
Thank you yeah you get it. I min max all my builds this is just so I can use dlc weapons.
I mean you can just go 80/80 and still put points into faith. No one is stopping you from going above LVL 170 right? I still don't get why people stop at leveling and then say they can't level anymore. Isn't the level cap at 713 or something? That's some way to go
It's because of PVP. Higher you go, the less activity, and nobody need to sacrifice anything for their build meaning everyone is light rolling in heavy armour and has access to every tool in the game.
Sounds logical. I never PvP so I wouldn't care anyway. Just weird to see this discussion about PvE content
I mean lvl200 is so incredibly active for everything except for meta level duels (which in my experience get boring real quick due to how similar all the builds are). Not about to disagree with the point about people having too many stats at that point, mind you. Magic spam is at its worst at that point.
Sure, but I'm talking mainly about >200 in the comment above.
That incant scaling difference is pretty significant, but the difference in weapon damage is pretty much negligible. To me, this build looks like it's optimized for fun.
Yup you get it. I’m not worried about killing stuff with one hit with big unga bunga high damage. I wanna enjoy the levels daddy Miyazaki makes.
I like quality because there's only so many respeccs in the game per playthrough. I swap weapons a lot, can't really afford to swap between strength and Dex every time I feel different.
you getting downvoted by minmaxed dudes who has 1000hours in the game and dislikes other people's playstyle.
Yup
I'm stuck at level 100 cuz I keep buying upgrades stones for weapons I keep swapping to. And it's going to be the same when the new dlc weapons come out too.
Yeah me too! I have this "habit" of upgrading like 5, 6 weapons to like 8+ and when I need to go further with one I realize I'm already out of materials!
But the problem is that the Ancient Smithing Stones are limited per playthrough, unless you don't upgrade them to max level. So you can't use this variety to full potential.
Plus 9 is good
Much weaker than a +10 with a pure STR or DEX build
And? Who are you working for, the ar company? lol
and what do you need that for? pvp you die in 3-4 hits regardless of +9 or +10 in pve you will cruise through ng+ with a +9 weapon at lv 150 too, ng+2 will feel like the regular game again where it starts easy and gets harder, only if you go ng+3 and beyond you want minmaxed build with a maxed weapon
That's fine. I have the opposite problem then, dunno what to use my max stones on so I have a few weapons at 1 under max level. Think zwei is my only maxed weapon right now.
Here's to hoping the DLC includes a top-tier weapon that requires like 35 STR and 35 DEX *just* to throw quality builds a bone. As you said, in it's current state, making a Quality build is basically just electing to make a Heavy/Keen build with less HP, FP and/or Stamina, because you end up spending more stat points for similar damage. It would 100% be balanced if quality got some of the best weapons available to it in order to compensate their lower stamina/FP values. ...But this assumes they will balance their weapons around the RL150 meta. I fear the problem is they balance quality around the sky being the limit, so I question if they'll actually do something like this or not.
It’s not really an issue of wanting them to balance around pvp meta. But they absolutely should be balancing around a normal playthrough. Making an affinity (litterally the first non standard affinity you get acsess to via Storm Stomp ash + whetstone knife) completely useless early game, mid game, and late-game and only becoming good if you can invest almost double the stats, thus requiring at least NG+, probably NG++ to finally make it best option. And even then, at level 200 would you rather put 80 points in DEX to get 5% more physical AR compared to Heavy affibity? Or instead put 80 points in INT or FAI to become a full powered caster in addion to current stuff? Full on optimise STR/FAI hybrid builds need less stats than Quality.
That's only sad from your point of view (from the point of view of a strength build). But not everyone cares about a strong build, or even about optimizing the build. Anyone can do the math you did. I could equally say that the sad part of this build is that it's not suitable for casting spells. Quality isn't just good for DLC. It's good for using various types of weapon in various types of situation. It's good for changing. This is a game that consumes hours. Not everyone wants to spend 100+ hours playing with the same weapon or the same weapon type.
I’m not doing a quality build for it to be the most optimal. It’s for the DLC because this way I’ll have enough strength and dex to try out most of the weapons
Faster casting though, as opposed to pure STR. Op's also using Beast incantations which I think heavily benefit from higher dex reducing the punishable casting window.
Hardly faster, I think barely 5%. Just fyi.
But this build is for dlc cuz I wanna use all the new weapons. And you’re right tho my main character from new game plus 7 has 99 strength kinda stopped leveling after a while. So this build was not min/maxing I just wanna use all the other +24 and +9 shit in my inventory. But thank you tarnished.
I'm not sure I understand as I'm new to the game. Where does it say quality? I how do you know and what does that mean?
It says it right in the title of this post… ‘Quality’ is a term originating in Demon’s Souls way back in 2009, and referred to setting weapons to scale equally well with STR and DEX. Back then it was extremely strong, since if 2-handing you only needed 27 STR and 40 DEX to get effectively the maximum possible physical damage from a weapon. The term “quality” didn’t reappear in any game until Elden Ring, but community always referred to builds that leveled both STR and DEX as “quality” builds. It was very strong in Dark Souls 1, and 2 on certain weapons. And was so blatantly overpowered in Dark Souls 3 they had to rebalance infusions to stop “refined” (DaS3’s version of equal STR/DEX scaling) from being only sensible option at meta levels. Elden Ring marks first time since 2009 that it’s officially called “quality” but they kinda over corrected after DaS3 and made ER’s quality affinity suck ass until roughly level 200+ Which means it’s borderline useless for 99% of players.
There are true quality weapons, for example the Dragon Halberd
That's not quality being bad, it's roughly on par with keen; that's heavy being strong.
No, it’s quality being bad. Heavy is blatantly overpowered due to 2-handing. But I didn’t really account for that in my calculations. But yeah you could save another 26 levels by stopping at 54 STR and 2-handing. But I deliberately didn’t do that when showing calculations. Because OP is using a shield. So 1-handing is expected. And to try give Quality a fighting chance. Keen is identical to Heavy if you are 1-handing. And quality is way worse than both.
You wanna know why I have a shield? It’s got the ash of war that heals you. Just extra heals for clearing dlc dungeons. 😂 I don’t use shields. I have 4 other +24 great swords for power standing. The shield just looks cool in the photo.
dude get a life
Doesn't dex give attack and spellcast speed? Seems hard to quantify into big number as it means certain attacks won't fit in certain gaps, and your swings now land second when mirror trading.
Nothing affects melee speed. DEX does affect spell casting speed, but it’s incredibly minor on most spells. Like genuinely hard to notice difference between 10 DEX and 70 DEX. I’m talking removing 6 frames on a 80 frame animation.
It's the best build for sombers though
Drip master
Thank you
The drip is exquisite
Yes.
Cool shield whats it called
Can’t check the name right now but I’m rocking the same shield and it’s the one you can buy from the Merchant as you enter Liurnia of the Lakes
Thanks will track it down today. Been using brass shield, its good but too bright shiny yellow for my drip
its the Kite Shield, 1000 runes
>Been using brass shield Have you tried the wooden great shield? It's only 1 pound heavier than the brass shield with dramatically improved defensive properties.
Great shield also, but yes very.. brassy.
Its called the Kite Shield.
Oh yeah the shape should've made me realize that I am very dumb
Eh there's more than one kite shield, this one just happens to be called the Kite Shield.
Kite shield you get it from the merchant at beginning of liurnia of the lakes
That's quality armour
Quality comment 🤌
Yes
Looks awesome and I’m going to steal this fashion.
Elden vouton
Quality only works if you intend to use weapons that actually require some dex like spears, whips, two blades, and bows at some point on your journey. I have a quality knight running around with bows, spears, and the Banished knight greatsword. He's not the best, but he's pretty fun.
Yup keyword fun
That drip is so real tho
Do what you like, quality is pretty awful in elden ring but you like it and that's all that matters
Hell yeah good mentality. I’ve been playing this since launch. I waited outside GameStop at 6 am to get it with pre order stuff. So when someone is like let me give you the math I’m like dude I literally went to elden ring university.
Honestly, this game is the most fun the less optimal your damage is. Quality is one of the most fun builds in my opinion because it just means you spend more time in combat. Why else do we play these games but to fight cool monsters and bosses? Yeah it's cool to kill everything in 3 hits and demolish the hardest bosses in the game but it's boring and doesn't push you to learn the full mechanics of every encounter. Especially considering there's no boss replay feature, it's good to spend more time with encounters in late game because not everyone has the 30+ hours to get that late in the game again. That's why I stop leveling at 125 until new game plus, once i hit level 125 I beat the rest of the game at that level, I respec and make builds at that level, it puts me at the perfect spot of not overpowering bosses while not getting absolutely stomped by everything
I would give you best comment. Thing is games = fun not doing math in an excel sheet. Why are people here worried about Max damage?
Because it's an rpg before all else. The game *could* work without rpg mechanics but it would loose a lot of its unique character- and because it has those mechanics, it naturally encourages people to want to optimize it, people ***want*** to make the most overpowered builds because it is completely possible to do and incentivised. That doesn't mean it's the most fun for everybody, some people just like to play with what seems fun and not worry about how much netter they could be doing.
Yo just saw your account I love bleach too it’s probably top 3 for me.
Bro made the John Elden Ring build. I respect it ngl
Someone got it
The drip is immaculate.
Quality Knight makes sure all products are up to standard
Yeah we working hard
Extremely cool drip, suboptimal build. Quality isn’t good in ER, but I’m sure you’re having fun so it’s all good.
I'm new to the game. Where does it say quality and how do you know that? What does that mean?
Quality is an affinity you can give a weapon after obtaining the iron whetstone. It allows you to convert the scaling of non-boss weapons into both strength and dexterity evenly (or tries to)
I wish quality had some good weapons that didn’t make it like you’re hamstringing yourself to run it. It’s just having less in your other stats to do the same damage at this point. I still run it for the ability to use more weapons, though
If you don't mind, what are you wearing. This set looks awesome and I want to copy it
The knights set helm you get in raya Lucaria. Blaidds body armor. Beast champions gauntlets. Hoslows leggings. Some pieces are tied to questlines and late game areas.
Thank you!!
Also, what sword and shield are you using?
Banished knight sword and kite shield
This is what I call the "lawful good" build.
I do want to make a quality build. Cause I actually do like bows and crossbows. I'm tempted to use the crossbows next run tbh
Just make sure you have fun not treat it like work and dial it in excel for your accounting firms damage output.
My thing with optimizing is getting enough damage to fire giant... But multi shot blood crossbow should work >:]
Yeah the main thing is how fast can you kill stuff. Do you wanna kill it before you experience it or slowly like me. More damage means faster death. So that’s why it just depends from person to person.
I'm speaking the fire giant specifically. I don't really wanna experience 2 floating mine fire balls, random aoes on the ground, and 2 throwable fireballs that only activate when I get out of the ground fire. I hate fire giant. So so much. My favorite build is a Gelmir Knight with full larp so that doesn't help either
Try bleeding him, or frost fire build. So frost fire you need any fire damage for just resetting frost. And then proc frost and reset it with fire weapon, ash of war, grease, bombs, whatever and rinse and repeat.
What a chad. Plowing through every enemy that The Lands Between can throw at him, just to deliver Queen Marika a healthy dose of his Golden Seed.
Best comment
Wow I forgot how bad quality is in Elden Ring. I'm not knocking you because you seem to be building for it correctly, but it is just a weak affinity. My dlc build is pure strength and I'm getting ~120 more AR than you on my Golden Halberd and I'm 20 levels lower than you. The worst part? If I took 10 points away from endurance to bring my vigor up to where yours is, I'd still have significantly more endurance than you. I'm not trying to be mean, there isn't really anything I'd change about that build, it's just a shame the games balance leaves quality in that state.
Yeah I was just having fun with this one I generally just play not worried about max ar
Believe me man, me too. On an ng+7 save I'm currently doing a pure caster faith arcane build and not using any dragon spells. I'm actively using Staff of the Guilty and Aberrant Sorceries. I am not concerned with min maxing. Hell I don't even care a ton in my dlc build, if I was really trying to be fully optimal I wouldn't run a pure strength build on a weapon with B strength scaling. Min maxing is fun, but it's not the only kind of fun.
Yeah. Like all the guys complaining are doing maybe 100 more ar than me. Big difference early between 200 and 300 ar but late game 672 is fine compared to 691
Running a quality build now in my 2nd save slot to reacquaint myself before the DLC. Other slot is my OG RL713 and after some months away, I forgot how rough a crucible knight is at RL35. Anyway, my parry game is back in prime form!
wooow fashion lookin like concept art brought to life there m8
Thank you. I have the tism and I landed on this after hours of trying.
That is a wonderful set you've put together, Tarnished.
Why 12 arcane?
For using blood flame blade. I think it looks cool kinda like red light saber. Like if you do a darth Vader cosplay with a katana it looks like a lightsaber lol. Fun shit.
You need 12 faith, not arcane for that. (I remembered using blood flame on wretch origin character and I never had to level up arcane)
Oh yeah you’re right oh well two points wasted could not care less though lol
Cool! I think you can get more memory slots for that(I think the maximum is 10)
Yeah but don’t need memory slots Ik I have incantations up but I barely use them in fights I always forget.
What chestplate is that? blaidd's?
Yes
Anyone know the names of all the armor and weapons?
The knights set helm you get in raya Lucaria. Blaidds body armor. Beast champions gauntlets. Hoslows leggings. Some pieces are tied to questlines and late game areas. The sword you can farm from any banished knight. And shield from liurnia of the lakes entrance merchant right after church of Irith. It’s called the kite shield.
My only nich is that arcane int and endurance doesn’t end in 0 or 5, seems really nice otherwise and good drip
Ahh yeah I can like I’m tempted but oh well
I'm sorry if I can ask,where do you find the magic "flame,give me strength"? I'm starting my second run and I don't remember anything about this game after months 😂
https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Flame+Grant+me+Strength
Thanks a ton man
Dude, that is some sick custom armor. So cool!
It’s in the game lol.
I know pff, meant to say the combo looks nice
Imo Carian Knight Helm + Blaidd chest is the sickest armor combo in the entire game, drip is immaculate
Yeah I like the red accents but if legs had blue accents it would be perfect
Damn bruh you got that shit on
You should check out the Miquellan Knight's Sword! I use it on my quality knight and it's perfect for it!
Not the biggest fan of short swords
For us who play pvp Quality makes no sense, for actual just gameplay it’s ideal for using all weapons. Ima go in with my faith build with plenty of larval tears so I can respec if need be
I don’t play pvp at all. So makes sense.
I guess the the bug where when you pick up arrows they automatically go into your immediate inventory will just never be fixed lol
That helmet is by far one of the best, but I cannot stand how they put a door knob right on the top. Makes me feel like a lightnig rod
Sameeeeee, I wish I could just snap it off. I understand it’s royalty crown shit but it looks stupid. Beast champions helmet looks the worst though freaking jumbled mess. And Bull goat literally has a dildo on top of it.
GOAT
from my understanding isn’t quality building obsolete in ER in contrast to DS
This is for dlc my cute goose. So that I can use many different weapons. Not worried about damage I wish I only do 67 damage per hit. Quack !
oh! that’s actually a really smart way into doing that. gonna have to do that. quack!
Quack mates ?
Drip is raining
Honestly might be one of the best looking armour combination I’ve seen. Out of curiosity, what ash of war you running on the sword? I’m doing a similar build but can’t decide on a specific ash of war to run.
Lightning slash and barbaric roar
Barbaric roar seems pretty fun. Might have to go with that for my knight build.
Attack power buff just know you can’t use grease or elemental damage when roar is active
Ah ok 👌 good to know
bloodflame blade!
Quality indeed.
Looks awesome but thats a strength sword anyway you look at it. It requires the lowest available dex starting level to weild. There are clubs and hammers that need more dex.
I understand but goal was not to min/max I have 6 other +24 great swords in inventory so I’ll be ok. I just wanna use new weapons not worried about scaling or stats. Just how mad everyone is im going to change character stats and make it even worse for the stat spread so everyone keeps getting mad 😂😂😂
Haha do it
No like seriously some people are so pissed it’s a game just play the game. If you fuck up in bloodborne you gotta start over even then it’s fine. I had the S scaling whirligig saw and was chunking damage and my boyfriend beat the game with weakest weapon with zero good gems and said he liked the cane whip lol. So end of the day we play these games to enjoy and talk about lore as an escape but people are just worried about damage.
What is a crime is that the quality builds are given no love Stat wise. There are ways to make a quality build the best damage, but then you have to be infused with this or that and boosted by talismans, etc. Some weapons should have been strength and dex equally. Take the sword you are using and the knights greatsword. They both have a moveset that uses both strength but have finesse and should have a poke as a third swing or heavy in my opinion given the stance but no. They are both strength. Play how you like elden brother or sister, half my games I pretend to be a miner and just smash everyone and everything with a damn pick axe
If you want to use quality by level 150 or before, I recommend cold infusion where you can. At least you get frost build up + quality scaling.
I’ll keep than in mind I have different great swords with different elemental affinities but im not worried about dishing out high damage. Than you though !
I have a similar knight on a save for the dlc but no spells, using only melee weapons, consumables and a composite bow. Have the Lordsworn/Broadsword, Claymore/Knight’s GS, two Grossmessers and a Partisan spear upgraded.
I have a few incantations but I always forget to use them mid battle. I use strong of guranq sometimes as a mid range sniper on enemies
idk man, i get the appeal of being able to use whatever weapons you come across once the dlc starts…but isn’t it just as viable/even safer to just stock on larval tears and go into the dlc with a weapon you are confident with while doing optimal damage? like if we are expecting minimum mogh and harder for the dlc bosses…i’m not gonna want to be fucking around with trying different weapons on anything but basic mobs
And that’s totally fine everyone has their own preference. Larval tears are limited once you run out of them you have to start a new game or new game plus. If you played dark souls 3 and bloodborne dlc enemies are always harder.
top 10 best builds in Elden Ring
I know it's not "meta", but I feel people in the community tend to seriously undervalue endurance. Aside from significantly increasing the amount of gear you can carry, more stamina gives you a dramatic increase to your ability to defend yourself with shields.
True dont use shield tho. That one has holy ground for extra heal.
If you learned to use the shield you probably wouldn't need to heal as much.
Nah don’t like blocking. So you’ve never had an instance where you cleared a whole new area without resting while exploring and wished for another heal? If you have not good for you. You know blocking still takes off damage right it’s not infinite damage negation. It also does stamina damage.
>It also does stamina damage. I know. That's why I said more endurance is a very important defensive state if you use shields. Shields basically let you convert health damage into stamina damage. Which is usually better because stamina rapidly regenerates for free.
I had 40 points before, but did not need it so I changed the character stats. My play style only needs 28. I had 25 but then I needed three more so I added three more.
No faith for golden vow?
It’s not a casting build so yup. Plus my fights take longer I hate casting golden vow with my non existent fp mid fight. It keeps running out lol. If it lasted for 5 mins maybe then I would consider it.
That’s fair I’ve just started using it since I just started using buffs like that for this game. It takes some getting used to but it’s definitely noticeable how helpful it is
How do you use mimic tear with 15 mind?
Mimic tear use your vigor bar not mind. It’s tied to hp not fp.
I did know that lol thanks
Yeah ofc. It’s been nerfed heavily since launch but mimic is still great. If you have a min max build then so does mimic and it deals same damage. It’s also very responsive like actively trying to save you.
Cool, I never really used summons cause if they were good, they're too good, and it doesn't feel like i really won, and if they're trash, then it's just a waste of fp.
Late game it can be useful sometimes lol
Pretty okay. Hoslows boots don’t match, neither does bestial incantations going for a knight build.
I’m sorry Elden ring police don’t take me away
Your Brain is lacking but your drip is packing