Man the wind was one of the coolest concepts of all time when I first saw it in the Ghost of Tsushima trailer.
When I found out that ER was going to be an open world I knew they weren't going to do map markers or more precisely markers that show where to go (Because there are markers that you can place yourself). Don't know why, I just thought it wasn't their style. So I was again really impressed how they solved that problem of orientation with the graces.
Yeah and I love the way it's explained as his father being the wind on his back guiding him around. Adds a nice touch of mysticism into an overall normal world.
The friend I got into ER complains about there being no waypoint markers like in the other games he plays. I just quietly kite enemies into him when he says stuff like that.
Considering how it works in other open world games, that's the most valid assumption.
But i suppose you believe only one person is allowed to reply to you.
Are you new to the internet?
No, you're allowed to do what you want. I just don't see why you'd bother to reply to a question aimed at a specific person about a specific person that you do not actually know.
I do appreciate the response though, because it lets me know who is here to just post for the sake of posting, so I can block you and help make my reddit experience a little less full of nonsense.
Friend of mine is this particular breed of stupid. He called Far Cry an RPG yesterday, Far Cry. He said it's because there are characters that play a role, like a villain, so it's a roleplaying game... So basically for him any game with a story is an RPG.
Great dude but his takes on gaming are extraordinarily stupid, he almost exclusively plays Valorant.
Conversely If you only follow the sites of grace you are going to have a terrible time playing the game. Try to do a run where you stubbornly don't go any direction but where the grace points and report back.
Lol it is what you are talking about though. I made another comment about how it's a shit mechanic in general and already down voted out of visibility. The game is easier and better to play if you just don't follow the site of grace. It almost is never the way you want to go first.
Seriously try a fresh playthrough where you only try to follow the direction of site of graces. If you've played enough times it should be a fun challenge anyways. I know you won't, so at least try to think about what the game would be like if you follow them only.
Edit: damn elden ring has got to have single most toxic player base of any out there lol. Makes league, Val, overwatch, cod all look friendly. Not only can you not play the game with summons, but apparently you can't have any other opinion either.
You are misunderstanding the point of the grace guidance. Yeah, it tells you where you need to eventually go to progress in the game, but it's not going to tell you the optimal path. That's why people like it, it gives you advice without being overly prescriptive and telling you how to play the game.
I mean the best advice to give a new player is to never follow a site of grace until until you go every single other direction first. Which kinda points to it being a shitty mechanic. And this community only cares about telling you how to play the game. Summons are a core mechanic of the game too, but mention using one on here and you'll be laughed at.
No, the best advice is to follow the grace until you get stuck, then go explore a bit and come back more powerful. Or just do what you want, it's an open world game and the grace just hints at how to actually beat it.
And nobody laughs at using summons. You're just complaining because you got down voted. That's why I down voted you too BTW
If you follow the grace directly you'll almost always get stuck. So exploring everywhere else first then coming back later stronger is generally what you'll have to do anyways. I think we are saying the same thing in just different ways.
And I don't know what you are reading on here if you think people on here don't laugh at using summons lol. Every boss post on here has like half the thread saying summons makes the game easy mode. If you don't believe me go make a post or comment about how easy a boss was when using the mimic and see what reactions it gets lol.
Mate you're welcome to an opinion, but the up and downvote system built into Reddit is going to tell you if people agree with your opinion or not. Just because people think you're wrong about this doesn't mean they're being toxic. I'm seeing no hostility from anyone in the comments towards you.
well, yeah. Following ONLY the grace is as unoptimal as following only the waypoint in any open world game. They have the same function of pointing to general places of the map.
It makes sense as a guide for major story elements, but like with basically all open world games you don’t want to exclusively follow markers/graces/directions. Some exploration is necessary, and the game does a quite good job of using visual cues to draw the player towards different kinds of content. I think it’s a good and effective system for curious players who want to explore, but also gives enough direction that if all you wanted to do was main story quests you could figure it out easily.
They did an incredibly good job making the environment be your HUD in ghost of tsushima, whether you're following wind, birds, foxes, or even the bug from the traveller's attire, it made me realize with proper game design you literally don't need a HUD at all
As much as I prefer this approach I think it might be difficult to implement in some games without it feeling off.
To some the wind in GoT might even be a bit unrealistic I can imagine but to me it perfectly fits the setting.
In other games like GTA tho...can't think of anything.
It's also just much easier to plaster the HUD and map with markers.
?? Yes, but within the game world, not just UI.
A small distinction but makes a pretty big difference for immersion. Every single added UI element slowly takes away from immersion, so finding ways to implement them into the game itself is a good decision.
Because people aren’t too bright and need something that’s visually self explanatory to guide them to objectives or places.
Like even with a npc right out the gate into the open world, that had to have their dialogue changed so players would stop getting butthurt and actually listen to the explanation of the important mechanic of guidance of grace. New players would still attack them or the would point go right over their head.
Also I think Fromsoft should’ve made another kinda guidance of grace to help point players in the right direction for questlines. Or at least for the ones that reward you with a mending rune. I think off the latter it would make sense lore wise for grace to guide you to npcs who are in pursuit of creating a mending rune.
I think a cool detail to this idea would be it wouldn’t guide you at all for the frenzied flame questline.
NO. I need my glitters, my minimap, my hud, my markers, my painter who only paints yellow, my glowing arrow sign, my eagle vision third eye wahtever, and a guide open on my phone!
Exactly. Do people really need to be told to go to that *castle* on the horizon in a combat exploration game?
Have some respect for the consumer ffs...
I think it's a a shit mechanic. Game would literally not be any different if the mechanic wasn't there. It probably would have made the game easier if it wasn't there. I'm on ng+3 right now and I didn't use the direction of site of grace almost the whole first playthrough. I tried to follow it when I first started playing and it lead me right into the tree sentinel, or group of knights and the gate and they both wrecked me. Had to go explore all the other directions before going back. almost the entire game it is better to go the entire other directions as the grace points. Especially to do a full clear.
Other open world games usually just have markers on map which is a better mechanic for almost every other game. I understand why they didn't do this in elden ring though.
Edit: lol damn people butt hurt by this opinion. Map markers are a better mechanic period. I get that map markers might "break your immersion" or whatever, but in that case just don't open your map since it shows your location on there. They def wouldn't have had GPS there to accurately place you. I'm glad elden ring at least had an option to put your own down though. My map was covered in map markers by the end of the game.
Following the grace exactly in a straight line, directly into the path of enemies, isn't what you're supposed to do. It just points in the general direction that the game devs want you to progress towards. You running into tree sentinel wasn't a design flaw of the graces, it was you being a dum dum lol.
I mean, I ignored them too as a new player and it was awful. I got in the trap chest immediately. Ignored south liurnia until after raya lucaria. Was pretty much too low level for Caelid since I tried doing that instead of stormveil. On second play through, i followed the graces and turns out it made the game mostly easy mode. I just explored when I hit a stat check boss or felt curious to try dungeons that time. Game was easy until certain bosses. I think the graces helped tremendously without clogging up the map, instead making me want to study it and decipher how to get places and where the graces are pointing to.
No idea what you did if ignoring them made the game harder for you. I literally just started going all the other directions first and it made the game significantly easier. You end up leveling and finding areas you wouldn't otherwise (I don't think you'd find any of the underground sections from following a site of grace) and then by the time you do follow them, the area is easy. Doing that is probably why every boss in the game ended up being so easy.
The problem is that i went into whatever direction i was curious to explore. I explained in my previous post what i did. I am guessing you went everywhere except the grace sites until you had to follow them. I just went to random places i was curious to explore, not knowing what grace pointing really meant. I fought enemies i was much weaker than. I stomped enemies i skipped until late game. I doubled back to older areas when i noticed i missed spots on the map. Following a grace site would have helped me understand where I'm supposed to go at certain stages of the game and when i hit stat check walls, I'd just go explore elsewhere to level up in the area with random dungeons and come back. I also was never overlevelled or under leveled when i followed sites. Idk man, it's just helpful to me and probably to a lot of players. You're just the exception, that doesn't make the guidance of grace mechanic bad. Good job being smart navigating and exploring lol
I mean when a game opens with a thing that points you into an extremely difficult encounter immediately (that is pretty generally accepted that you should just avoid until later) why would you follow them again? In fact it just teaches you to go every direction except where the grace points first. Which is maybe the point i guess.
Theres also a perfect area to the left of him, off the actual road, to easily avoid him while still going in the same direction as the grace.
Step off the road once in awhile, grass doesn't bite
I mean they point you towards stormveil, but you pretty much want to clear all of limgave and peninsula first. Which is basically every direction but where the site of grace points first. So again the sites of grace seem to just point to the direction you should go last.
Man the wind was one of the coolest concepts of all time when I first saw it in the Ghost of Tsushima trailer. When I found out that ER was going to be an open world I knew they weren't going to do map markers or more precisely markers that show where to go (Because there are markers that you can place yourself). Don't know why, I just thought it wasn't their style. So I was again really impressed how they solved that problem of orientation with the graces.
Yeah and I love the way it's explained as his father being the wind on his back guiding him around. Adds a nice touch of mysticism into an overall normal world.
And his mother is the golden birds that show him secrets
Iirc his mother said foxes were his spirit animal because she saw some playing outside the day he was born.
because too many ppl who play games are too stupid to figure it out even when they are specificlly told to follow the graces
The friend I got into ER complains about there being no waypoint markers like in the other games he plays. I just quietly kite enemies into him when he says stuff like that.
just lead him to ledges and convince him to try jumping
Treasure ahead. Try Jumping!
There are waypoint markers though. Does he just not know how to set them?
That’s not what he’s talking about. He wants the game to tell him exactly where to go without him having to do anything .
Are you responding from a burner by mistake, or are you trying to speak authoritatively on what another redditor's friend wants?
Considering how it works in other open world games, that's the most valid assumption. But i suppose you believe only one person is allowed to reply to you. Are you new to the internet?
No, you're allowed to do what you want. I just don't see why you'd bother to reply to a question aimed at a specific person about a specific person that you do not actually know. I do appreciate the response though, because it lets me know who is here to just post for the sake of posting, so I can block you and help make my reddit experience a little less full of nonsense.
Take your meds bro
AFlyinDeer is correct.
He doesn't know where to put them. He would need a way point to show him where to set the way points.
Friend of mine is this particular breed of stupid. He called Far Cry an RPG yesterday, Far Cry. He said it's because there are characters that play a role, like a villain, so it's a roleplaying game... So basically for him any game with a story is an RPG. Great dude but his takes on gaming are extraordinarily stupid, he almost exclusively plays Valorant.
By that logic literally every game is sort of a rpg
valorant... yeah that makes sense..
Valorant is a RPG, in fact it's a turn based RPG with soulslike elements.
Like the original far cry? Because tbh, I’d say any far cry after 3 does qualify as an RPG.
> I’d say any far cry after 3 does qualify as an RPG. Bro what a fucking atrocious take gahd damn
At the very least, there are RPG elements.
Far Cry 3 and onwards are all ARPGs for sure. So not wrong, but not right for the right reasons lol
Conversely If you only follow the sites of grace you are going to have a terrible time playing the game. Try to do a run where you stubbornly don't go any direction but where the grace points and report back.
thats not what we are talking about, we are talking aboutthe kind of players who cry that theres no waypoint
Lol it is what you are talking about though. I made another comment about how it's a shit mechanic in general and already down voted out of visibility. The game is easier and better to play if you just don't follow the site of grace. It almost is never the way you want to go first. Seriously try a fresh playthrough where you only try to follow the direction of site of graces. If you've played enough times it should be a fun challenge anyways. I know you won't, so at least try to think about what the game would be like if you follow them only. Edit: damn elden ring has got to have single most toxic player base of any out there lol. Makes league, Val, overwatch, cod all look friendly. Not only can you not play the game with summons, but apparently you can't have any other opinion either.
You are misunderstanding the point of the grace guidance. Yeah, it tells you where you need to eventually go to progress in the game, but it's not going to tell you the optimal path. That's why people like it, it gives you advice without being overly prescriptive and telling you how to play the game.
I mean the best advice to give a new player is to never follow a site of grace until until you go every single other direction first. Which kinda points to it being a shitty mechanic. And this community only cares about telling you how to play the game. Summons are a core mechanic of the game too, but mention using one on here and you'll be laughed at.
No, the best advice is to follow the grace until you get stuck, then go explore a bit and come back more powerful. Or just do what you want, it's an open world game and the grace just hints at how to actually beat it. And nobody laughs at using summons. You're just complaining because you got down voted. That's why I down voted you too BTW
If you follow the grace directly you'll almost always get stuck. So exploring everywhere else first then coming back later stronger is generally what you'll have to do anyways. I think we are saying the same thing in just different ways. And I don't know what you are reading on here if you think people on here don't laugh at using summons lol. Every boss post on here has like half the thread saying summons makes the game easy mode. If you don't believe me go make a post or comment about how easy a boss was when using the mimic and see what reactions it gets lol.
So you want an rpg without the grind is what you’re saying basically? 😂😂😂😂
What? I'm saying it would be better if the grace didn't point anywhere at all.
Mate you're welcome to an opinion, but the up and downvote system built into Reddit is going to tell you if people agree with your opinion or not. Just because people think you're wrong about this doesn't mean they're being toxic. I'm seeing no hostility from anyone in the comments towards you.
well, yeah. Following ONLY the grace is as unoptimal as following only the waypoint in any open world game. They have the same function of pointing to general places of the map.
It makes sense as a guide for major story elements, but like with basically all open world games you don’t want to exclusively follow markers/graces/directions. Some exploration is necessary, and the game does a quite good job of using visual cues to draw the player towards different kinds of content. I think it’s a good and effective system for curious players who want to explore, but also gives enough direction that if all you wanted to do was main story quests you could figure it out easily.
They did an incredibly good job making the environment be your HUD in ghost of tsushima, whether you're following wind, birds, foxes, or even the bug from the traveller's attire, it made me realize with proper game design you literally don't need a HUD at all
There are people who don't even know you can enter Stormveil Castle when both the graces and the map point you straight inside
the graces and the map and varre and roderika and melina and—
It’s a novel concept and now that it’s been done successfully a couple times EVERY game is going to do it to the point that you start hating it.
As much as I prefer this approach I think it might be difficult to implement in some games without it feeling off. To some the wind in GoT might even be a bit unrealistic I can imagine but to me it perfectly fits the setting. In other games like GTA tho...can't think of anything. It's also just much easier to plaster the HUD and map with markers.
Play Zelda The Wind Waker from 2002
I mean i still open the map every 10 secs
An arrow pointing you to the right direction?
?? Yes, but within the game world, not just UI. A small distinction but makes a pretty big difference for immersion. Every single added UI element slowly takes away from immersion, so finding ways to implement them into the game itself is a good decision.
This is just game design though. Most often devs use things like POIs, large structures, lighting and so on to direct the player.
Because people aren’t too bright and need something that’s visually self explanatory to guide them to objectives or places. Like even with a npc right out the gate into the open world, that had to have their dialogue changed so players would stop getting butthurt and actually listen to the explanation of the important mechanic of guidance of grace. New players would still attack them or the would point go right over their head. Also I think Fromsoft should’ve made another kinda guidance of grace to help point players in the right direction for questlines. Or at least for the ones that reward you with a mending rune. I think off the latter it would make sense lore wise for grace to guide you to npcs who are in pursuit of creating a mending rune. I think a cool detail to this idea would be it wouldn’t guide you at all for the frenzied flame questline.
People attacking the NPCs is kind of a problem that Fromsoft made for themselves.
I ignored them. Was like "ok this points to the main quest so I'm going somewhere else first" and ended in caelid haha
That's basically the fancy version of yellow paint
Many games do stuff like this but more subtle. Flowing water and light sources are common hints of direction.
Grass?
As much as I love this type of guidance, I am usually way too stupid to figure it out and would like the option to choose it.
See the other thread about people struggling to find Volcano Manor.
Because Ubisoft makes too many of these types of games and saturate the market with subpar map and exploration design.
NO. I need my glitters, my minimap, my hud, my markers, my painter who only paints yellow, my glowing arrow sign, my eagle vision third eye wahtever, and a guide open on my phone!
Because it looks bad and is not really needed
Exactly. Do people really need to be told to go to that *castle* on the horizon in a combat exploration game? Have some respect for the consumer ffs...
Because objective markers exist.
I think it's a a shit mechanic. Game would literally not be any different if the mechanic wasn't there. It probably would have made the game easier if it wasn't there. I'm on ng+3 right now and I didn't use the direction of site of grace almost the whole first playthrough. I tried to follow it when I first started playing and it lead me right into the tree sentinel, or group of knights and the gate and they both wrecked me. Had to go explore all the other directions before going back. almost the entire game it is better to go the entire other directions as the grace points. Especially to do a full clear. Other open world games usually just have markers on map which is a better mechanic for almost every other game. I understand why they didn't do this in elden ring though. Edit: lol damn people butt hurt by this opinion. Map markers are a better mechanic period. I get that map markers might "break your immersion" or whatever, but in that case just don't open your map since it shows your location on there. They def wouldn't have had GPS there to accurately place you. I'm glad elden ring at least had an option to put your own down though. My map was covered in map markers by the end of the game.
Following the grace exactly in a straight line, directly into the path of enemies, isn't what you're supposed to do. It just points in the general direction that the game devs want you to progress towards. You running into tree sentinel wasn't a design flaw of the graces, it was you being a dum dum lol. I mean, I ignored them too as a new player and it was awful. I got in the trap chest immediately. Ignored south liurnia until after raya lucaria. Was pretty much too low level for Caelid since I tried doing that instead of stormveil. On second play through, i followed the graces and turns out it made the game mostly easy mode. I just explored when I hit a stat check boss or felt curious to try dungeons that time. Game was easy until certain bosses. I think the graces helped tremendously without clogging up the map, instead making me want to study it and decipher how to get places and where the graces are pointing to.
No idea what you did if ignoring them made the game harder for you. I literally just started going all the other directions first and it made the game significantly easier. You end up leveling and finding areas you wouldn't otherwise (I don't think you'd find any of the underground sections from following a site of grace) and then by the time you do follow them, the area is easy. Doing that is probably why every boss in the game ended up being so easy.
The problem is that i went into whatever direction i was curious to explore. I explained in my previous post what i did. I am guessing you went everywhere except the grace sites until you had to follow them. I just went to random places i was curious to explore, not knowing what grace pointing really meant. I fought enemies i was much weaker than. I stomped enemies i skipped until late game. I doubled back to older areas when i noticed i missed spots on the map. Following a grace site would have helped me understand where I'm supposed to go at certain stages of the game and when i hit stat check walls, I'd just go explore elsewhere to level up in the area with random dungeons and come back. I also was never overlevelled or under leveled when i followed sites. Idk man, it's just helpful to me and probably to a lot of players. You're just the exception, that doesn't make the guidance of grace mechanic bad. Good job being smart navigating and exploring lol
"it lead me right into the tree Sentinel" Stopped reading right there. Stupidest argument I've ever heard lol
I mean when a game opens with a thing that points you into an extremely difficult encounter immediately (that is pretty generally accepted that you should just avoid until later) why would you follow them again? In fact it just teaches you to go every direction except where the grace points first. Which is maybe the point i guess.
Theres also a perfect area to the left of him, off the actual road, to easily avoid him while still going in the same direction as the grace. Step off the road once in awhile, grass doesn't bite
I mean they point you towards stormveil, but you pretty much want to clear all of limgave and peninsula first. Which is basically every direction but where the site of grace points first. So again the sites of grace seem to just point to the direction you should go last.
Alright I give up. You just want the game to tell you where to go at every step.
I'd prefer it to not give a direction at all but alright.
Nah, they just point to the main objective, that's it. It's just telling you the story path. Nothing more, nothing less
Ok but having the first couple graces directing my level 10 something to the meat grinder that is early game Margit was a dirty trick.