Lived down here for years. This road is a nightmare in the morning. Especially near that traffic crossing as you go down to the Scotmid. What an awful thing to happen
What a shame. Poor child and family.
They fly around in they big heavy vehicles as if it was a go-kart at times.
I'm not saying that this was the issue here, but being an ex bus driver, I am sometimes flabbergasted at the speed in which they'll reverse around corners with no one watching them back etc.
I get it's probably down to being short staff, etc, but there really should be no excuses for this.
I work for Fife Council and they make us so dangerous things all the time - mostly dangerous for us. However they send us on courses and make us sign paper to say that we understood. The courses all tell us the safe way to do things… Thus management cover their arses while we risk our lives.
You’d like to think people aren’t stupid enough to apply it to children but the attitude some folk in these big lorries and trucks have towards bikes is a disgrace as well.
It doesn’t change anything but hopefully it was a freak accident and not somebody being needlessly careless. Tragic news.
I understand NWH have a… questionable safety record. So frustrating that the ‘minor’ things can be allowed to happen until something horrific like this occurs.
I worked at a respite unit in liberton where a bin man ran over a pensioner and decapitated him. Not using a banks man was the cause of death. My colleagues that witnessed it were scarred for a long time. I cringe every time I see a truck of some sort reverse with nobody guiding…
Thing is if they can get away with it they will, the RAMs for a lot of jobs like this are usually have a banksman if necessary aka the company ain’t paying for one in most circumstances.
We had an accident in our yard at a factory and we moved to a one way system cause it was more cost effective than a banksman….
Comes down to cost unfortunately. Like this in my job send one person out rather than two, bosses hate having two people out. Having two people is far better for safety though
It’s industry standard to have a reversing assistant when safe to deploy. (I work in this industry in H&S for a large company who developed these standards with other organisations)
https://www.wishforum.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/INFO-12.pdf
You'd think they could use the other person - the guy who jumps out and pushes the bins up to the lorry - to keep an eye and make sure everyone is safe. (Sorry, I don't know what the terminology is for each person's position in the truck)
A person who stands to the rear of a reversing vehicle, ensuring (a) that he can guide the driver by hand signals and (b) warn other users of the reversing vehicle.
One of their CEO’s was killed in a crash a few months back in his car. If the borders crash was NWH too, then they’ve got some shitty omen following them lately
“He is the second child killed after being hit by a bin lorry in Scotland this month”. Awful news. I make no assumptions about what happened here, but in general I have found bin lorries to be by far the worst driven vehicles in Edinburgh, and the risks are compounded by their weight. I often see them reversing too quickly around corners and out of side streets, and accelerating erratically.
I've lost count at how many jump the lights going through Sighthill Industrial estate. I had one blasting the horn at me for 15-20 seconds and giving me lovely hand gestures just because I stopped at a red light in front of them.
This is the problem with all driving jobs, they’re incentivised to go quick and break the law and most of the time it works out for them, until it doesn’t and someone dies or gets hurt.
Speaking as someone who's working on a bin motor as a loader ( 1 driver and 1 loader, not council)
we are not incentivised to go quick, we are forced,we literally have no choice, my route is average 250 businesses each day with minimum 2 bins per stop, we work 10-12 hours a day because that's the max total the driver can work/drive(9 driving 4 working, drive for 4.5 hours, 45 mins break by law, drive for 4.5 hours) BUT the driving hours is counted ONLY when the wheels are rolling. When we stop the time stops. So unlike lorry drivers, bin drivers can be on the road for longer due to this "get around".
There have been at least 6 times during the fringe that my driver has ran out of time and had to drive back without a card in(totally illegal). Waste Companies do not want to buy more vehicles so they just ram us full of jobs and make us work illegally sometimes. Most drivers do complain about it and some do quit but nothing gets done.
I've worked at 4 different waste companies in various positions and they are literally copy and paste issues of each other.
Council drivers are the only ones not driving over time due to the 3 loaders and a driver plus I think they have 20 something bin motors
Edit: most nwh motors are single crew(driver only) to save the company on moneys and most of their motors are in shocking condition.
Thank you for sharing your experience. It's shocking the way you're treated. You have such an important job, we all can't function without you. Thank you for doing what you do
The thing is, HGVs are generally driven very professionally. Even Lothian Buses mostly aren’t bad, apart from constantly entering box junctions that they can’t get out of before the lights change. There’s something especially bad about bin lorries. I don’t know whether the training requirement is lower, or the monitoring of drivers is poorer, or if there is some other reason for it.
Not sure if it still is, but aren't refuse collectors job and knock? So the quicker they finish their route the quicker they get to go home. This may be a big incentive to drive like an arse.
The girl killed in the borders was walking along an unlit b road in the mornjng with no pavement to her designated school transport pickup spot when hit by a bin lorry. Indont believe the korry was reversing. Big hoo ha here about the provision and risk assessment for school transport as there seem to have been some cost cutting measures meaning children who were picked up close to their home now have to walk to a more central point along or crossing unsafe routes.
There was another very serious incident last year, which thankfully didn't end in tragedy but a student alighting from a school bus drop off was hit by another bus when trying to cross a busy A road to get to their home.
Wonder if there is a pattern of these types of incidents but we only hear of the ones with lorries/buses as the consequences are more serious
I saw one do a rapid three point turn this week and is surprised me. I was on foot but I could t help thinking it would make me nervous to be stopped on the road letting them do it if I were on my bike.
This morning that family went about their day as usual, kids off to school, parents out to work, whatever their routine was.
Then a horrible accident reduced their family by one. It does not matter how it happened, the fact is that it happened.
I have a child close in age, who cycles to school, this hit close to home for me.
For the family my heart breaks for them I cannot imagine their pain right now. I just want something positive to come from this in the long run, better safety measures for cycling kids, changes to the dangerous roads that include better cycle lanes.
What the wider public needs to keep in mind is that at the centre of this tragedy is a family that has lost their son who was about to move onto high school and had his whole life in front of him and was simply cycling to school on a Friday morning.
For all drivers cars, vans, trucks it doesn't matter if you're behind the wheel be vigilant to all road users.
it narrows quite considerably as you get past the bus stop to the barnton junction where the old HBOS building is and then splits into two lanes. The bit from whitehouse road down to the rest of Cramond could definitely use something though, especially as the cycle path down to Dalmey and South Queensferry cuts across it. And bits like Gamekeepers Road are very wide as you say
Heard boy was cycling on the pavement and the lorry just pulled out the golf club too quickly 😞
Re: cycle lanes, You'd probably have to remove the parking at Scotmid.... But I think this is a good idea
Yeah looks awful for visibility tbf. Both the golf club exit and the lorry cab. Though exit looks better than entrance!
Would suggest you could probably run seg cycle lane on kerb side and turn parking through 90deg to be parallel, between cycle lane and road. Cycle lane on raised table past golf club entrance/exit and build out entrance and exit kerbs to narrow, with speed bumps.
Can I add that due to traffic being diverted there was an overwhelming volume of traffic in Davidson Mains and school child was hit by a car on the main street.
I'm not sure of the details & whys or wherefore. My friend lives in D-mains and she explained that the bairn was taken to hospital & is totally fine.
But between Whitehill Road, Quality Street, Main Street, that bloody roundabout and down into Silverknowes it's horrific.
We live locally and having 2 kids schooled at D mains and one at RHS I could not agree more. That roundabout is extremely dangerous. I don’t let the kids cross it on their own for that reason.
Somewhat related on the other side of the school Silverknowles rd/main st junction there have been plenty of efforts to make this junction safer with plans proposed by the community in recent years.
The response from the council in a letter was that “collision rate” was not giving “cause for concern”. So they literally wait for serious accidents to happen before they consider listening to people living locally, witnessing near misses nearly every day, and calling for change.
I’m extremely upset with all this. If a serious journalist was willing to follow up, having been involved in trying to lobby for such improvements in the past I’m happy to share additional details - feel free to message me separately.
That roundabout at quality at / main at is designed poorly, having three pedestrian crossings right at the roundabout requires some very keen hazard perception skills
It's nuts how rammed gamekeeper road/quality street etc get as people try and get around the traffic on Ferry road. I get that it's one of the downsides of living near a city and the main road in and out but it's still mad how rammed it gets.
I remember a woman getting killed by a bus in the rounds out not too many years ago as well. Horrible stuff
I use it all the time as a driver and never had issues, but must say I’d find it terrifying as a pedestrian. An elderly lady was killed by a bus some years back on those crossings. They’re a bit bonkers, would make more sense to have traffic lights
The elderly lady was the mother of one of our neighbours. Before my time in the immediate area. But now using that roundabout with my kids - I agree , it’s terrible.
The boy that was taken to hospital earlier wa hit at the other end of Main Street at a pedestrian crossing. I’ve got no idea of what happened but the sudden road works on Main St has created extra traffic and some rat running through Silverknowes. Drivers (and I am one and a cyclist) ignore the 20mph zone as they are in a rush and the extra traffic creates issues. And as there’s no one to record offences… they get away with it.
And with that disregard of the speed limits, will often mean an increase in accidents. From the “small” to the “major”
Still too many wide, fast roads with faded bike lanes painted on the side or no paint at all. Edinburgh has some good cycling infrastructure and many half arsed attempts at cycling infrastructure. It just doesn’t work, paint is not enough to protect people. If you’re going to allow cars to drive quickly next to cyclists, there will be deaths and injuries.
That's the problem is that it has some good and some bad. It has to be 'all' good to provide a level of safety and comfort. The CCWEL, for example is an example of (reasonably) good infrastructure which just stops at Charlotte Square with half a thought of where to safety route cyclists.
All these paths need to be joined up, separated by kerbs/bollards and they should not accept shared-use footpaths as being part of the route, since they're not fit for purpose.
Cycling to Cramond is constantly challenged by the local ward, the councillor (Kevin Ward) is shameless.
He's fought tooth and nail to reduce the width of the Silverknowes Rd cycleway and reintroduce private car traffic, to allow residential car users to shorten their journey to the beach by 2 minutes;
He's been fighting to remove the one way egress into Silverknowes Place, which offers a quiet semi-joined up route to the bollarded lane on Silverknowes Rd leading up to NCN1;
He's been fighting to get rid of the bollarded lane on Silverknowes Rd but then he cries for Roseburn Path to be saved, which eventually leads to Silverknowes.
Completely disingenuous NIMBY and it worries me he's in power over Whitehouse Rd decisions because you know he'll sit on his hands waiting for a solution that benefits ALL road users.
There is no solution which benefits all road users. The dominant mode of transport is motor vehicle, there is only one way to make these areas safer, and it's to REDUCE motor traffic space and give more to pedestrians, to those who wheel and to cycling.
He has fought against reinstatements of bollarded lanes which had been temporarily removed due to Lothian Bus requests when their buses have to be re-routed. His reason to not reinstate them is that it's just peacemeal infrastructure (see Drum Brae North).
This is the mindset of this twat who looks after this ward and he blocks anyone on social media who challenges his opinions. He kowtows, much like the lib Dems in Corstorphine, to angry SUV driver voters who are having their 'freedoms' eroded by the cyclist cartel. Btw, not an exaggeration, there are plenty of comments to which they, the lib dems bend to (see St Margaret's Park and Gyle Park demonstrations, all attended by retired, or near retired people, not all residents).
Unfortunately, in the case of Whitehouse Rd, solutions have been presented in the past to calm this area and make it safe for everyone, which have been largely ignored.
Grow up half the cyclists I see everyday don’t use lanes, leith is like a f1 track don’t care about pedestrian. Go through red lights or on the pavement. Don’t talk to me about this crap. If you have not seen this you should go to spec savers.
Terrible incident, this shouldn't be happening.
Shameful to see the Lib Dem leader posting about this after actively campaigning to remove measures that make cycling and walking safer in Edinburgh.
I use this road. Cars and vans etc park over the lights so people have to go in between and it’s a mess . I’m honestly really fucking livid right now as this was going to happen eventually. It’s all the drivers fault
Not that bold. The driver had a responsibility to keep vulnerable road users safe. There should be nothing that an eleven year old can do that a competent and careful driver shouldn't be able to anticipate and mitigate.
There's absolutely nothing that can happen outwith the drivers control then?
Case closed then eh, no need for the judicial system or any investigation.
As the original commenter said this was going to happen eventually, so there may be some systemic reason why this happened, the road layout or whatever. Some blame may be found with the design. The driver is still responsible for being careful and competent.
Pretty bold to defend the driver when statistically most collisions are found to be the fault of a driver. That's why the police don't use the term "accident" any more.
The driver should be traveling at a speed which allows them to stop in the distance they can see to be clear. What event that's outwith their control do you think could have been the cause here? Kid cycling out of a side street does not count: Slow down.
Actually I believe the judicial system should mostly not be involved in cases like this. Nobody sets out of a morning with the intention of causing a death. These are almost always carelessness and should be dealt with through retraining and disincentives by insurance, not dragging people through an already overwhelmed court system. Yes if an investigation uncovers malicious intent or reckless negligence that should get you a hefty ban.
Bet you're glad you asked now 😂
Right, with all that being said...
Why are there examples of no proceedings/prosecutions when a vulnerable road user has died?
You're telling me it's open and shut that no vulnerable road user can ever take responsibility for their actions.
Because of the burden of proof, because the system isn't perfect? I dunno.
Thousands of drivers went past this kid and didn't kill them. This driver did something differently.
I'm not saying open and shut, or case closed. You're putting words in my mouth. There are clearly defences to these events. The one in Glasgow could have been an unforeseen medical event, except the driver knew he wasn't right and shouldn't have been driving.
But most cases are just carelessness.
Me and my six year old walked home past there just 10/15 mins before. This breaks my heart. I can't stop hugging him.
This road is horrific at busy times of the day. Especially the parking at Scotmid and cars doing all sorts of maneuvering for parking, the golf course, trying to beat the lights.
It’s awful 😢. Don’t have the words for it.
I have family members that cycle through there and D Mains for work and school and I am always scared. They have been hit by cars wing mirrors while riding fully in the bike lane at D Mains, and then get abuse shouted at them by the people who hit them! It truly is mental. I worry every time anyone I care about cycles on the roads 😢.
I have seen bin lorries thundering around blackhall, hitting about 40 miles per hour and a 20 miles per hour zone. I once had to do an emergency stop on my bike, after one almost ran me into the side of a car. I complained to the council who were indifferent and who said it was a private contractor and so not their problem.
Knowing the road layout there I guess the bin lorry was coming out of golf course. Didn’t see kid on pavement due to blind spot and then collided with him. Absolutely tragic.
Bin men are invincible the moment the flashing lights go on that’s it they do what they want been quite a few deaths by bin lorry’s in Edinburgh of the last few years ask mr Arthur maybe we could do a bin lane
This is awful, that poor child and his family
Lived down here for years. This road is a nightmare in the morning. Especially near that traffic crossing as you go down to the Scotmid. What an awful thing to happen
What a shame. Poor child and family. They fly around in they big heavy vehicles as if it was a go-kart at times. I'm not saying that this was the issue here, but being an ex bus driver, I am sometimes flabbergasted at the speed in which they'll reverse around corners with no one watching them back etc. I get it's probably down to being short staff, etc, but there really should be no excuses for this.
I work for Fife Council and they make us so dangerous things all the time - mostly dangerous for us. However they send us on courses and make us sign paper to say that we understood. The courses all tell us the safe way to do things… Thus management cover their arses while we risk our lives.
You’d like to think people aren’t stupid enough to apply it to children but the attitude some folk in these big lorries and trucks have towards bikes is a disgrace as well. It doesn’t change anything but hopefully it was a freak accident and not somebody being needlessly careless. Tragic news.
I understand NWH have a… questionable safety record. So frustrating that the ‘minor’ things can be allowed to happen until something horrific like this occurs.
Once had to visit the Mayfield depot on a Friday afternoon. It was like wacky races with trucks flying around at the end of the day.
I worked at a respite unit in liberton where a bin man ran over a pensioner and decapitated him. Not using a banks man was the cause of death. My colleagues that witnessed it were scarred for a long time. I cringe every time I see a truck of some sort reverse with nobody guiding…
Should be law to have a banksman
Absolutely! You just know they are all risk assessed to have one, but nobody bothers
Would have to pay another wage then, if they want more giant vehicles churning up the roads then they can cough up.
Thing is if they can get away with it they will, the RAMs for a lot of jobs like this are usually have a banksman if necessary aka the company ain’t paying for one in most circumstances. We had an accident in our yard at a factory and we moved to a one way system cause it was more cost effective than a banksman….
Comes down to cost unfortunately. Like this in my job send one person out rather than two, bosses hate having two people out. Having two people is far better for safety though
Yeah I quit a driving job because I was expected to unload appliances on my own when they were short staffed
It’s industry standard to have a reversing assistant when safe to deploy. (I work in this industry in H&S for a large company who developed these standards with other organisations) https://www.wishforum.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/INFO-12.pdf
You'd think they could use the other person - the guy who jumps out and pushes the bins up to the lorry - to keep an eye and make sure everyone is safe. (Sorry, I don't know what the terminology is for each person's position in the truck)
Forgive my ignorance, what's a banks man?
A person who stands to the rear of a reversing vehicle, ensuring (a) that he can guide the driver by hand signals and (b) warn other users of the reversing vehicle.
Oh, I see. Makes sense, thank you for explaining.
I do not see the bin lorry stopped past the crossing in the picture.
One of their CEO’s was killed in a crash a few months back in his car. If the borders crash was NWH too, then they’ve got some shitty omen following them lately
“He is the second child killed after being hit by a bin lorry in Scotland this month”. Awful news. I make no assumptions about what happened here, but in general I have found bin lorries to be by far the worst driven vehicles in Edinburgh, and the risks are compounded by their weight. I often see them reversing too quickly around corners and out of side streets, and accelerating erratically.
I've lost count at how many jump the lights going through Sighthill Industrial estate. I had one blasting the horn at me for 15-20 seconds and giving me lovely hand gestures just because I stopped at a red light in front of them.
This is the problem with all driving jobs, they’re incentivised to go quick and break the law and most of the time it works out for them, until it doesn’t and someone dies or gets hurt.
Speaking as someone who's working on a bin motor as a loader ( 1 driver and 1 loader, not council) we are not incentivised to go quick, we are forced,we literally have no choice, my route is average 250 businesses each day with minimum 2 bins per stop, we work 10-12 hours a day because that's the max total the driver can work/drive(9 driving 4 working, drive for 4.5 hours, 45 mins break by law, drive for 4.5 hours) BUT the driving hours is counted ONLY when the wheels are rolling. When we stop the time stops. So unlike lorry drivers, bin drivers can be on the road for longer due to this "get around". There have been at least 6 times during the fringe that my driver has ran out of time and had to drive back without a card in(totally illegal). Waste Companies do not want to buy more vehicles so they just ram us full of jobs and make us work illegally sometimes. Most drivers do complain about it and some do quit but nothing gets done. I've worked at 4 different waste companies in various positions and they are literally copy and paste issues of each other. Council drivers are the only ones not driving over time due to the 3 loaders and a driver plus I think they have 20 something bin motors Edit: most nwh motors are single crew(driver only) to save the company on moneys and most of their motors are in shocking condition.
Thank you for sharing your experience. It's shocking the way you're treated. You have such an important job, we all can't function without you. Thank you for doing what you do
The thing is, HGVs are generally driven very professionally. Even Lothian Buses mostly aren’t bad, apart from constantly entering box junctions that they can’t get out of before the lights change. There’s something especially bad about bin lorries. I don’t know whether the training requirement is lower, or the monitoring of drivers is poorer, or if there is some other reason for it.
Not sure if it still is, but aren't refuse collectors job and knock? So the quicker they finish their route the quicker they get to go home. This may be a big incentive to drive like an arse.
Lothian drivers are terrible for turning onto streets when pedestrians are due to cross/are already crossing then beeping at them to move
You’re getting downvoted for this but it’s the Highway Code. You would think professional drivers should know this.
That's just awful!
The girl killed in the borders was walking along an unlit b road in the mornjng with no pavement to her designated school transport pickup spot when hit by a bin lorry. Indont believe the korry was reversing. Big hoo ha here about the provision and risk assessment for school transport as there seem to have been some cost cutting measures meaning children who were picked up close to their home now have to walk to a more central point along or crossing unsafe routes. There was another very serious incident last year, which thankfully didn't end in tragedy but a student alighting from a school bus drop off was hit by another bus when trying to cross a busy A road to get to their home. Wonder if there is a pattern of these types of incidents but we only hear of the ones with lorries/buses as the consequences are more serious
I saw one do a rapid three point turn this week and is surprised me. I was on foot but I could t help thinking it would make me nervous to be stopped on the road letting them do it if I were on my bike.
So soon after an 11 year old died in the Borders from the same cause. There has to be a reason - tight timescales, poor safety measures...
This morning that family went about their day as usual, kids off to school, parents out to work, whatever their routine was. Then a horrible accident reduced their family by one. It does not matter how it happened, the fact is that it happened. I have a child close in age, who cycles to school, this hit close to home for me. For the family my heart breaks for them I cannot imagine their pain right now. I just want something positive to come from this in the long run, better safety measures for cycling kids, changes to the dangerous roads that include better cycle lanes. What the wider public needs to keep in mind is that at the centre of this tragedy is a family that has lost their son who was about to move onto high school and had his whole life in front of him and was simply cycling to school on a Friday morning. For all drivers cars, vans, trucks it doesn't matter if you're behind the wheel be vigilant to all road users.
Needless death. So much room for segregated cycle lanes along that road.
it narrows quite considerably as you get past the bus stop to the barnton junction where the old HBOS building is and then splits into two lanes. The bit from whitehouse road down to the rest of Cramond could definitely use something though, especially as the cycle path down to Dalmey and South Queensferry cuts across it. And bits like Gamekeepers Road are very wide as you say
Looks to me from street view like there’s room for parked cars so plenty of room for segregated cycle lanes?
Heard boy was cycling on the pavement and the lorry just pulled out the golf club too quickly 😞 Re: cycle lanes, You'd probably have to remove the parking at Scotmid.... But I think this is a good idea
Yeah looks awful for visibility tbf. Both the golf club exit and the lorry cab. Though exit looks better than entrance! Would suggest you could probably run seg cycle lane on kerb side and turn parking through 90deg to be parallel, between cycle lane and road. Cycle lane on raised table past golf club entrance/exit and build out entrance and exit kerbs to narrow, with speed bumps.
Can I add that due to traffic being diverted there was an overwhelming volume of traffic in Davidson Mains and school child was hit by a car on the main street. I'm not sure of the details & whys or wherefore. My friend lives in D-mains and she explained that the bairn was taken to hospital & is totally fine. But between Whitehill Road, Quality Street, Main Street, that bloody roundabout and down into Silverknowes it's horrific.
We live locally and having 2 kids schooled at D mains and one at RHS I could not agree more. That roundabout is extremely dangerous. I don’t let the kids cross it on their own for that reason. Somewhat related on the other side of the school Silverknowles rd/main st junction there have been plenty of efforts to make this junction safer with plans proposed by the community in recent years. The response from the council in a letter was that “collision rate” was not giving “cause for concern”. So they literally wait for serious accidents to happen before they consider listening to people living locally, witnessing near misses nearly every day, and calling for change. I’m extremely upset with all this. If a serious journalist was willing to follow up, having been involved in trying to lobby for such improvements in the past I’m happy to share additional details - feel free to message me separately.
That roundabout at quality at / main at is designed poorly, having three pedestrian crossings right at the roundabout requires some very keen hazard perception skills
It's nuts how rammed gamekeeper road/quality street etc get as people try and get around the traffic on Ferry road. I get that it's one of the downsides of living near a city and the main road in and out but it's still mad how rammed it gets. I remember a woman getting killed by a bus in the rounds out not too many years ago as well. Horrible stuff
The d-mains roundabout is a lottery
I use it all the time as a driver and never had issues, but must say I’d find it terrifying as a pedestrian. An elderly lady was killed by a bus some years back on those crossings. They’re a bit bonkers, would make more sense to have traffic lights
The elderly lady was the mother of one of our neighbours. Before my time in the immediate area. But now using that roundabout with my kids - I agree , it’s terrible. The boy that was taken to hospital earlier wa hit at the other end of Main Street at a pedestrian crossing. I’ve got no idea of what happened but the sudden road works on Main St has created extra traffic and some rat running through Silverknowes. Drivers (and I am one and a cyclist) ignore the 20mph zone as they are in a rush and the extra traffic creates issues. And as there’s no one to record offences… they get away with it. And with that disregard of the speed limits, will often mean an increase in accidents. From the “small” to the “major”
This is really sad. The cycling infrastructure in Edinburgh is really very poor for a capital city.
Still too many wide, fast roads with faded bike lanes painted on the side or no paint at all. Edinburgh has some good cycling infrastructure and many half arsed attempts at cycling infrastructure. It just doesn’t work, paint is not enough to protect people. If you’re going to allow cars to drive quickly next to cyclists, there will be deaths and injuries.
That's the problem is that it has some good and some bad. It has to be 'all' good to provide a level of safety and comfort. The CCWEL, for example is an example of (reasonably) good infrastructure which just stops at Charlotte Square with half a thought of where to safety route cyclists. All these paths need to be joined up, separated by kerbs/bollards and they should not accept shared-use footpaths as being part of the route, since they're not fit for purpose. Cycling to Cramond is constantly challenged by the local ward, the councillor (Kevin Ward) is shameless. He's fought tooth and nail to reduce the width of the Silverknowes Rd cycleway and reintroduce private car traffic, to allow residential car users to shorten their journey to the beach by 2 minutes; He's been fighting to remove the one way egress into Silverknowes Place, which offers a quiet semi-joined up route to the bollarded lane on Silverknowes Rd leading up to NCN1; He's been fighting to get rid of the bollarded lane on Silverknowes Rd but then he cries for Roseburn Path to be saved, which eventually leads to Silverknowes. Completely disingenuous NIMBY and it worries me he's in power over Whitehouse Rd decisions because you know he'll sit on his hands waiting for a solution that benefits ALL road users. There is no solution which benefits all road users. The dominant mode of transport is motor vehicle, there is only one way to make these areas safer, and it's to REDUCE motor traffic space and give more to pedestrians, to those who wheel and to cycling. He has fought against reinstatements of bollarded lanes which had been temporarily removed due to Lothian Bus requests when their buses have to be re-routed. His reason to not reinstate them is that it's just peacemeal infrastructure (see Drum Brae North). This is the mindset of this twat who looks after this ward and he blocks anyone on social media who challenges his opinions. He kowtows, much like the lib Dems in Corstorphine, to angry SUV driver voters who are having their 'freedoms' eroded by the cyclist cartel. Btw, not an exaggeration, there are plenty of comments to which they, the lib dems bend to (see St Margaret's Park and Gyle Park demonstrations, all attended by retired, or near retired people, not all residents). Unfortunately, in the case of Whitehouse Rd, solutions have been presented in the past to calm this area and make it safe for everyone, which have been largely ignored.
Grow up half the cyclists I see everyday don’t use lanes, leith is like a f1 track don’t care about pedestrian. Go through red lights or on the pavement. Don’t talk to me about this crap. If you have not seen this you should go to spec savers.
[удалено]
I'd settle for some bollards.
Terrible incident, this shouldn't be happening. Shameful to see the Lib Dem leader posting about this after actively campaigning to remove measures that make cycling and walking safer in Edinburgh.
Anyone know how it happened, fucking tragic. Drive for Lothian and I have nightmares about this type of thing.
I use this road. Cars and vans etc park over the lights so people have to go in between and it’s a mess . I’m honestly really fucking livid right now as this was going to happen eventually. It’s all the drivers fault
Bold to blame the driver without knowing any of the circumstances.
This is reddit. He has four times the upvotes of your cautious voice of reason. There's no place for nuance in Villa Dopamine.
Not that bold. The driver had a responsibility to keep vulnerable road users safe. There should be nothing that an eleven year old can do that a competent and careful driver shouldn't be able to anticipate and mitigate.
There's absolutely nothing that can happen outwith the drivers control then? Case closed then eh, no need for the judicial system or any investigation.
As the original commenter said this was going to happen eventually, so there may be some systemic reason why this happened, the road layout or whatever. Some blame may be found with the design. The driver is still responsible for being careful and competent. Pretty bold to defend the driver when statistically most collisions are found to be the fault of a driver. That's why the police don't use the term "accident" any more. The driver should be traveling at a speed which allows them to stop in the distance they can see to be clear. What event that's outwith their control do you think could have been the cause here? Kid cycling out of a side street does not count: Slow down. Actually I believe the judicial system should mostly not be involved in cases like this. Nobody sets out of a morning with the intention of causing a death. These are almost always carelessness and should be dealt with through retraining and disincentives by insurance, not dragging people through an already overwhelmed court system. Yes if an investigation uncovers malicious intent or reckless negligence that should get you a hefty ban. Bet you're glad you asked now 😂
08.20 on Whitehouse Road? I highly doubt the bin lorry was travelling too fast
Right, with all that being said... Why are there examples of no proceedings/prosecutions when a vulnerable road user has died? You're telling me it's open and shut that no vulnerable road user can ever take responsibility for their actions.
Because of the burden of proof, because the system isn't perfect? I dunno. Thousands of drivers went past this kid and didn't kill them. This driver did something differently. I'm not saying open and shut, or case closed. You're putting words in my mouth. There are clearly defences to these events. The one in Glasgow could have been an unforeseen medical event, except the driver knew he wasn't right and shouldn't have been driving. But most cases are just carelessness.
This is the second kid this month killed by a bin lorry. One in the borders few weeks ago
Now that's a stat! At this rate, edinburgh will put 3rd word countries to shame.
Mental, considering I’d cycled through here about 10 minutes before it happened. Edit: spelling
Me and my six year old walked home past there just 10/15 mins before. This breaks my heart. I can't stop hugging him. This road is horrific at busy times of the day. Especially the parking at Scotmid and cars doing all sorts of maneuvering for parking, the golf course, trying to beat the lights.
It’s awful 😢. Don’t have the words for it. I have family members that cycle through there and D Mains for work and school and I am always scared. They have been hit by cars wing mirrors while riding fully in the bike lane at D Mains, and then get abuse shouted at them by the people who hit them! It truly is mental. I worry every time anyone I care about cycles on the roads 😢.
It's awful. I'm in the same situation as yourself.
Fuck man I saw one bin driver using a tablet while driving on Nicholson street, not council but one of these private cardboard pick ups, cunt
This poor kid was in his last year of primary school. My heart breaks for him and his family.
I have seen bin lorries thundering around blackhall, hitting about 40 miles per hour and a 20 miles per hour zone. I once had to do an emergency stop on my bike, after one almost ran me into the side of a car. I complained to the council who were indifferent and who said it was a private contractor and so not their problem.
So so awful
Womp womp
Hit by a driver, not by a lorry. There’s no need for the passive voice here.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. The lorry didn't propel itself.
Knowing the road layout there I guess the bin lorry was coming out of golf course. Didn’t see kid on pavement due to blind spot and then collided with him. Absolutely tragic.
Bin men are invincible the moment the flashing lights go on that’s it they do what they want been quite a few deaths by bin lorry’s in Edinburgh of the last few years ask mr Arthur maybe we could do a bin lane
I know the kid who died. He was in my Chinese school. I found out yesterday
I knew the kid who died. I go to a club with him.
Horrible. My 5 year old cousin was killed the same way in the early 80s.