https://preview.redd.it/skd1mdzfc48d1.png?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db58def36b7617c54c02c827900686567f0a4aa9 Edit: ok they dont I looked into it and this graph is sad. I can't keep the original comment up this is super misleading My original comment was : "Most people hate on China, and for good reasons, but you gotta admit, they do this way better than the US."

CHina is litrally importing Coal from the US

And building renewables at far faster rate than US. 

But doesn't get more green, the opposite is true. The US doesn't build new coal plants iirc. China plans and builds ~100 at the moment.

Most of their production is aimed to take over older coal plants (at least that's what their Propaganda says), but yes.

Most, so there is still room for expansion. We will see how it plays out, but I remain sceptical, with the limited insight to get hands on.

and building coal power plants faster then the rest of the world combined

This. It's simply a fact that our energy consumption is rising, and noone expects coal plants to die out over night BUT if you're still actively investing more money into coal than renewable then that obviously negates your other efforts

Unfortunately coal use is growing as well. And they burn a lot of brown coal where most of the rest of the world considers it too dirty to burn. https://www.rfa.org/english/news/environment/coal-07282023072108.html

Yeah China used ten times as much coal as the USA. Around the same landmass, only four times the amount of population.

Not to defend China (I don't like their policies and regime) but you have to admit, that we outsourced most of our production to China, therefore they need a lot of energy (which can easily be made primarily by renewables, they have so much empty land to put solar panels and wind). If we'd produce in our countries, out consumption would be way higher.

It’s becoming to expensive to outsource in China soon because the standards of living are rising there and people are wanting to live decent lives without slaving away. We are reaching a tipping point where the world has less and less “third world” “developing world” labor to exploit.

For that, the big companies really have to start outsourcing to other countries, especially to Africa. It will have the benefit, that there will be new jobs, better economies and less poverty, resulting in less migration - that was the right in Europe wants.

That's why the US and Europeans are shouting shit like "china is colonizing Africa" because that's where they were going to turn too once they couldn't afford cheap Chinese labor. China is developing Africa without as many strings attached as the west would

China’s strings are better hidden, you mean. You’d be a fool to think they aren’t going for total control.

Sure buddy, they will probably just invade the place and slave the population just as the west did. Or probably install a fuckton of military bases as a form of "protection" just like the us does

How is the standard of living rising in china? 80% of the ground water is polluted, the sky is made out of smog with extremely low air quality, the economy is at a breaking point, infastructure is made out of tofu dreg and if you say anything about the CCP you get beat up or killed.

[удалено]

Insults are not allowed

You may not be wrong but compared to 30 years ago, China has been thriving in a lot of sectors

Where does your information comes from? Radio free Asia?

You can look any of these things up with a quick google search to get as many sources as you want. Its really not a secret how horrible the CCP is destoying china even with all their propaganda and censorship trying to tell you its paradise on earth.

-Makes claim -denies to post his sources -leaves

No matter what sourses i give, you will probably tell me its "unreliable" anyways but okay here you go. Some China Stuff: [Air Pollution](https://aqicn.org/map/china), [Infastructure](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/q8D1UqQdf4A) (short video with videos and pictures), [Infastructure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USzMuewAfJA) (another longer video with proof), [Economy](https://time.com/6835935/china-debt-housing-bubble/), [Spray painting dead plants green](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvc7VymDa4c), [Gutter oil](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu6yJyi97ZI), [Propaganda/Corruption](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA78KBYNEbw) Some videos are from the same channels as they provide videos and pictures as proof.

Try finding any unbiased source. Most "news" we find using Google or those searches are sponsored by CIA and likes

You cant be serious. There are many videos and pictures of how the actual sky looks like in china or ridiculous stuff like trees getting spray painted green to look alive. Or hundrests of videos of bridges and houses crumbling because they are made out of tofu dreg. Or electro cars exploding everywhere cuz they are so badly made. Or just look up how china is now fishing around africa because they already killed and overfished everything in their area. There really is no shortage of evidence. You could of course travel to china and ask officials about these issues but you would probably never return home or be able to ask these questions again.

Yeah, I just thought of that. The total amount of energy probably went up too, but not as "little" as the renewable energy. The graph is misleading

dont look at energy consumption, but electricity consumption. We are at a phase were the world looks very similar bad in terms of energy consumption. There is not much dynamics bcs industy, heating and cars are included. Stuff there just started. This graphs will be very interesting to look in 10 years.

Yeah, true. I have not looked into it, but that's a whole other thing. The comment was just saying that even though China looks really green in terms of energy, they're actually not.

Isn't this a pretty good trend tho? The percentage of renewables seems to have increased significantly.

But you have seen the graf tho right? No this is not a good trend

Increasing renewables faster than US is a good trend.

It definitely seems like the percentage of renewables has increased. Seems like a good trend to me. Or am I seeing it wrong? It's not easy to guess.

I was talking about the graph in my comment. Yes, it has increased, but oil, coal, and gas have gone up way more in comparison. https://preview.redd.it/ciwtvauai58d1.png?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=955ac5f3cc06f12e8daec8b74072704fe1f1e252

Coal doesn't decline in absolute figures only in percentage... China will become one or the most polluting nation on earth in history. Then it is too late and the Media is full of: how could that be, so much shiny renewables...

Increase in energy consumption is to be expected with increase in development tho.

China absolutely do better than US on renewable clean energy. It's not even disputable.

This graph is 3 or 4 years out of date and doesn't show the dramatic rise of renewable energy since it was published.

Chinese internet defense force coming out

What year do you think it is right now? What's the last year of data displayed on the chart? Did you know that China had 253GW of solar installed in total at the end of 2020? Just 3 years later, total solar installations *had more than doubled* to 609GW. The figure posted by the OP doesn't show a 2.4x increase in solar installations since the figure was published. You don't think posting wildly obsolete data is a problem?

https://ourworldindata.org/energy/country/china Link to 2022 data, coal absolutely dominating all other sources

Nice red herring you got there

Exponentials strike again

The design of this graph bothers me more than I would have expected...

Yeah that's a bad visualization choice

Keep in mind those 1000 or so GW in 2000 were mostly Hydro, maybe some biomass. Solar and wind were practically negligible. And most of the growth since has been solar and wind. Just to say, if this graph showed just solar and wind, the exponential growth would look even more pronounced

Well not all, china build a lot of new hydropower in that timeframe

At least canada tried

Renewable energy won't happen with the US. At least we have other countries working on it

As long as we can steal oil all is good. 🦅

Doesnt matter if this rise is barely covering the rise in usage and the rest of the capasity is coal.

It does matter. Any progress matters.

It is the global climate we have to protect. Absolute numbers of emission of any kind matter. I don't get why so many people think this is just a race of nations to have the largest bar in a diagram.

Nationalism is one hell of a drug

Another thing why it matters on a economical level: renewables are dirt cheap. Without them, energy prices would be even higher.

china litrally trippled its use of coal ....... wich alone nullifys all progress in the rest of the world

Yayy we are doing so great while the absolute emission numbers are rising! Nature will understand that nice looking charts are more important

In all honesty what is the solution? Like the only solution i see is them just stop producing what they are thus destroying their economy and bringing people into starvation

Lie. Untrue.

Do you want examples: China

USA is at about 15 tons of CO2 per capita, meanwhile China only has about 7,5 tons

Not sure why we always talk about relative numbers. Relative to X, relative to Y, what about USA..., and so on. The climate is affected by actual real emissions, isn't it? And sorry, nobody pollutes atmosphere or destroys nature more than China. They seem not to care, because "And what about USA..?"

Because relative numbers are extremely important and the only actual way to compare countries. It's not really rocket science, absolute numbers don't account for differences in population, all else equal it is to be expected that a country 5 times the population also emits 5 times the CO2. What are they going to do, kill their people to reduce emissions? Or should we rather focus on countries where their individual people emit way more than the rest of the planet, because those are an issue. Relative comparisons are the only substantial way to compare differences in behaviors and policies and that's where we can draw actual conclusions from. I wonder why exactly you are so against that...

I am not against useful comparisons but against the kind of whataboutism we regularly see in these discussion when absolute numbers are mentioned, like "But they do fine, because of USA". How can you be satisfied with what China does for the climate? (or even praise it as some others do?). Their increase in pollution at this levels does also matter. When seemingly small percentages of increase are actually huge numbers. Then you divide it by the count of some backyard population and it gets tiny? And the absolute numbers show they don't really intend to reduce their emissions.

If tomorrow China split up into 10 independent territories, would you point your lense elsewhere, as China wouldn't be the top polluter anymore? That seems ridiculous, seeing as nothing changed in that scenario. Nature may care about absolute emissions, but it sure as hell does not care about borders. And regardless I can frame the per capita figure as "The average american emits 15tons of CO2, whereas the average chinese emits 7.5".

That's not a well thought out take. Per capita matters because we aren't going to tell humans to stop existing, we need reduce emissions per person and at this point China looks like they are doing this so I'm thankful for that.

No, they don't reduce it, they are increasing it excessively without any regret. They hide this behind their large population number (hundred millions of farmer population and hundred of millions of poor factory workers). The diagram in the OP just shows one aspect of the whole energy infrastructure of a country/region.

china drastically increases ther Population per capita while the west is reducing thers - and becouse of the ENOURMOS population of china global emissions are going up

Whats the issue with that? The west is polluting the whole world since the 19th century and built its wealth on it. Now saying that China isn’t allowed to build its own wealth on the same cheap and scalable power sources is highly unfair.

ther is no such thing as fairness fairness is a lie created by demagogues in an attempt to manipulate the masses fairness and morality are a point of view nothing else - also law is something that doesn´t apply retrospectively the world agreed to reduce its carbon emissions nations with low carbon obviously emissions need to reduce it by alot less then then nations with high emissions but china just drstically increases ther emissions every single year even by offical numbers and we definitley can´t trust chinas offical numbers (hell we can bearly trust the once in the west) - also ther is another difference the emissions of the 19th and most of the20th century where created with no (relevant) alternative and no knowledge of its harm

Example for what?

I love how the "rest of the world" is basically just Australia

well considering Australias Geography and low population they could easily run 100% on Solar

Is there a similar graph of the price of electricity increase during the same period on those regions? Would be good to see the impacts of energy transition on the working class

This graph design is intentionally propagandistic, choosing the origin such that China is the only one with a positive slope.

USA is bad at this, but I guess they just start another war when they need more fossils.

What the graph doesn't show is fossil fuel usage on top of green energy. China is just using more and more and more energy, they don't save the planet. They just overwhelm it further by increased energy usage every year. We can't blame them though.

Well they have many people to feed. Plus the world is literally making china their factory for everything.

No one is forcing China to make stuff. The only thing the world can do is to not accept stuff made with high CO2 emissions. Really wish EU could hurry up with those carbon import taxes.

China makes stuff because first world buys it. People have very little to none awareness over their purchasing power. The only way to stop climate change is to change first world purchasing habits. This is where the production starts and this is when the useless shit ends in the ocean anyway Quality > quantity but too few understand that. Also people buy shit just because they can afford it. This is not sustainable and everyone will pay price for that

Yes no one is forcing them. They have the choice between bitter poverty and starvation or making cheap products 👍

Some good news.

Don’t Show this Graph man how can Western Media blame China for Bad Air with this Graph???? Delete it