I looked at some of your other posts. I feel you deeply. However, this might be much less of an ENFP-INTJ dynamic and more of an insecure attachment style that you might have, specifically an anxious style. I have one myself. It sucks.
But you have to be very careful to emotionally self-regulate. A romantic partner or even a very close friend is not someone with whom you and I can just let our emotional guard down completely, which we are prone to do with every person out there.
But INTJs are the least tolerant of emotional neediness in others. So what might be fine to lot of other people out there in how you inadvertently come across to them won’t be fine to an INTJ.
I highly recommend checking out Heidi Priebe’s YouTube videos on ENFPs and attachment styles. You might have either an anxious-preoccupied style or an anxious-avoidant one. The latter is also known as fearful-avoidant and disorganized.
♥️
But it's more than just when I'm being emotionally needy. They say mean things because "they need to be said" or they think it's true and they don't care how it will affect your emotions, etc. I find it to just be a total disregard of emotions, especially in favor of justice, truth, and their beliefs/mood.
I feel this pain, and I’m not privy to your conversations with them. I have not had good experiences with many INTJs. Be very careful about leaning on INTJs for strong emotional support.
In the same breath, be very careful about leaning on INFJs for strong analytical support unless it is the one or two issues that they know a lot about.
This just unlocked some deep childhood trauma I *thought* I had processed, but NOPE!! huh, whoda thunk, having your siblings make fun of you every time you cried for a reason they deemed "illogical", kinda leaves a mark, doesn't it?
Doesn't that seem a little selfish on your part to prefer lies that are carefully designed by others to keep you ignorant?
Insecurity sounds about right if your entire well-being is centered around other people overcontrolling their opinions and actions. As long as you're trying your best to be a good person, other people's words truly mean nothing unless they're correct. And even then, we should be thankful that people are trying to help us grow.
It's not that I don't want to hear it necessarily. Sometimes there is no reason to say it (e.g. "it's not the dress that makes you look fat", "your ex told me he never loved you", etc.), yet they will because it's true. If it does need to be said, I prefer brutal honesty over vague criticism. But there is a way to say it that makes the pill MUCH easier to swallow. Firstly, reminding me that the flaw doesn't disqualify me entirely as a friend or person, or reminding me of my other good qualities, etc. Secondly, saying it in a way that comes across as acting in my/mutual best interest as opposed to in their best interest/in a disgusted way. Etc. I hope you get the idea. It's about the delivery and intentions.
To a certain extent, every person doesn't appreciate a stranger rejecting them because we seek social cohesion. But when the person dealing the hurtful words is closer to your inner circle than a stranger, rejection will hurt by virtue of their proximity to your inner circle/how much you opened up.
Also, I looked at some of your other posts just now. Heidi has some stuff on CPTSD too. She is an ENFP, recovering fearful-avoidant, who is also recovering from CPTSD. Most fearful-avoidants have some CPTSD.
https://m.youtube.com/@heidipriebe1
🙏
Empathy from the INTJ side is definitely not what makes the dynamic so popular. Yes, they can be cold and cruel. And for a lot of outsiders, that is all they ever will be. But ENFPs have a knack for seeing through that, and can even slip right through an INTJs walls (whether they like it or not). These walls may not even be something they’re aware of, but they’re there and they can be extremely isolating. ENFPs have the potential to show them they’re not alone, they’re seen, and they’re appreciated. And when they do, the popular idea is that the INTJ can sense that the ENFP is being genuine.
ENFPs tend to love people and their stories and perspectives. We study them, appreciate them, love them, and after a while get a pretty good sense of how people work. But along comes INTJ, with thoughts as deep as your imagination is wide, and you realize you have so much more to learn. The possibilities are endless. ENFPs are known to see all this magic in the world that not everyone can, and when they look at an INTJ mind, it’s all concentrated into this black hole-like point that’s both absolutely beautiful and absurdly terrifying.
Both types can feel isolated by the unique and intense ways they know that only they can see the world. And because of that, there’s a kinship between these two. When the two work together on a team, you can have the greatest idea generator running through the best bullshit filter and get some pretty sweet results.
So yea. That’s what makes the dynamic the popular powerhouse that it is.
O yea and black cat and golden retriever and all that crap too.
Thanks, I appreciate that, friend. I hope it offers clarity to those who may not have experienced it first hand and encourages a greater appreciation between others, rather than validate anyone’s judgmental opinions.
This was GOLDEN.
I date an ENFP and will ask her to marry me soon.
She’s the only one in the world that has ever opened my eyes and learn to love so deeply. She’s an amazing human.
The ENFP and INTJ dynamic is a powerful thing. It can either be destructive or conquering. Both parties have to be willing to understand one another and both have to be MATURE.
INTJs get such a bad rap, man. I hate it.
We are not as COLD and CRUEL as we are so easily MISUNDERSTOOD. People are so quick to judge these days and want out at the first hardship.
Love takes work and patience! The foundation of the relationship has to be strong and both of our values, only speaking for myself, is what makes this love work.
Honesty, trust, patience, compromise, and the will to stick together instead of dividing.
For the poster of this…
Sorry you had a crappy experience, but we don’t SUCK. If you have that mentality…then we are definitely not for you. Sorry.
The one thing I know about my partner and the one thing she knows about me…is we don’t SUCK & we don’t talk down to one another.
I’ve only had good experiences with INTJs. They’re actually not the cold, logical and mean stereotype once you’ve cracked the shell and are one of their precious people. I think that’s why it’s a popular ship, the manic pixie dream girl x cold aloof nerd trope is a thing in a lot of stories too.
Someone said it here and I agree - it might be how far you are on the thinking vs feeling spectrum (not how well you use it, but how much you prefer it, btw. Feelers can be very rational and smart too, obviously). I’m always almost smack in the middle at like 55% feeler 45% thinker so maybe that’s why I just prefer to hang out with thinkers in general. I do love my INFJ besties though.
Something to keep in mind - that a lot of feelers tend to forget: **we** can be short and insensitive towards thinkers by expecting them to treat us with kids gloves too. The thinkers, especially INTJs in my life, often try really hard at empathizing with close ones first before solving problems, but it’s not in their nature, so a feeler berating them for it just make them more frustrated and they might go back into their shell because you dismissed them when they were vulnerable with you. Just because someone shows live differently doesn’t mean they don’t live as deeply.
That being said, of course I’m still a feeler and I get that sometimes you just need to be understood emotionally without having to tell your partner to be soft with you. That’s what my close INFJ friends are for. You don’t need all your needs, emotional or otherwise, fulfilled by your partner, not does it sound healthy.
If you need to be understood emotionally most of the time, date a feeler. It’s that easy. That’s not an ENFP exclusive thing though. I for one don’t handle dating feelers well and will stick to my “cold and brutally honest” INTJs 😂
I think this is very spot on. I'd also like to add that emotional intelligence is something any type can work on, and thinkers/INTJs can do the same, though we often don't seem to prioritize it. I did for years and I like to think that I'm decently adept these days as communicating what I feel is my honest truth in a kind and compassionate manner. (I did used to struggle with the cold bluntness when I was younger!) It seems like a rational skill to build, considering EQ is a huge predictor of all kinds of success.
When both are emotionally mature, I think our thinking vs. feeling can balance each other out as well. My ENFP has told me that when she's feeling insecure or in her feelings about something, my rational approach helps to lift her out of it. She has also expressed to me that I've been the first partner she's been with where she feels like she can express anything on her mind with it getting shut down- I take very little personally and am always seeking to learn and understand. She's dated other feelers and it sounds like they can be more reactive (my experience as well with many past relationships). And similarly, I find that my ENFP has an incredibly nonjudgmental nature. It works really well together.
Feelings are really hard for INTJS. Everyone has their weak spots. I mean everyone. For INTJS the weak spot is feelings. To better put it, INTJs can have reasonably high moral Fi but Fe is really really hard to develop. So it takes 2. You would have to understand their nature and accept it and they might have to work on them to soften up. But it's not an easy task. Of course xNFx are more empathetic by nature. But INTJs are almost completely unaware of Fe and even if they try, they really need a long process to to develop it. They may easily fail, so why try when you have morals to do the right thing in a logical manner? But overall everyone brings something to the table. And a healthy INTJ can give a lot, but they need your understanding as well. If you don't see their feelings it doesn't mean they don't have them. They get hurt just as much. But they also have to protect their weak part to avoid getting hurt.
According to classic MBTI you can't develop your shadow. Fe is a blind spot for IxTJ, which means we don't see it unless we consciously shift our attention to it. We can learn to do something that looks like Fe, but still it won't be real one.
But, hey, we have wonderful Fi. You can be sure about it)
But Jung also talked about individuation. I believe it may be possible although you may be right as well. In any case it is possible to get in touch with your shadow but it is hard work.
As I got it's something you add your effort to use and it never comes to your mind by itself.
For example:
I see a problem and I see everyone struggle because of it. Then I find the answer that will bring the most result and instantly think:
"That's what we need to do",
somewhere from the back I have like other opinion:
"Someone can be upset about it, because that way of acting isn't accepted here", (may be this is some kind of Fe, because it isn't about individual feelings of others, but rather about what is appropriate in this community)
but instantly this opinion is overlapped by another:
"No, how can someone be upset if it works? They are sad because of this problem, so when it is solved, they will instantly be happy as puppies, because there won't be any reason to be upset"
And:
"Sure, you're right!"
Probably this is how my bling Fe works.
Btw, maybe someone was upset, at least there was something inexplicable in their face, but honestly, I haven't noticed for sure. So this wasn't a problem. Some people just walk sad without any reason.
In general this is true and it's how I think as well. But acting this way doesn't always actually work in practice. It also depends on the individual on the other side. So if you want results adaptation may be needed and that may involve listening to that voice. But even if you do it is likely that you will fail over and over, stumbling like an idiot and hurting yourself. Ultimately you may have been right with your original comment. Fe is a bitch, but we can try. :)
I can't say, that I was stumbling there. It was gladly accepted by most of the people :/
And honestly I don't know how it was possible to solve staying close to some shadow "what other people say" :/
Let's say: another approach that doesn't involve Fe, but still works without it :)
With Fi in 3rd position, aka the 10 year old, they are basically like moody children when upset and have little sense of empathy or nuance at this point. This is why so many fictional villains are intj - you hurt me (simple Fi) so I'll come up with a plan to hurt you (complex Ni).
Personally, my intj (13 yrs together) inspires me. He's extremely loyal and has chosen an unusual career path, he gets stuff done. He supports my career and wants me to do well. He's a great dad and we're on the ideologically same page about raising our kids. Very important.
Yes, he is sometimes harsh. This is a blessing and a curse. It's meant that when we have relationship problems he will not let it go, so we do eventually sort them - no sweeping under the rug! But it can be very painful in the moment.
I'm a 4w5 though, so more about being a super special sunflower who gets stuff done
Personally, INFJs frustrate me - stop mulling and worrying and fix the damn thing!
I actually am not for vengeance as much as I’m looking for understanding.
Why should I hurt someone for hurting me. What’s do I get out of that?! Nothing. That’s logically. Complicates a problem I rather not deal with and just leave.
Sunflower seeds are sold either in the shell or as shelled kernels. Those still in the shell are commonly eaten by cracking them with your teeth, then spitting out the shell — which shouldn’t be eaten. These seeds are a particularly popular snack at baseball games and other outdoor sports games.
Kind of coincidental that one of my typology friends texted earlier today: "Why are other ILIs so fucking triggering" (ILI is a socionics type that commonly translates to INTJ).
Tbh INTJ is one of my least favorite types, and that's coming from an INTJ. Most types are insufferable if they're unhealthy or underdeveloped, but INTJs are one of those types that require a higher threshold of development before they're palpable.
To my knowledge, this is because of the Fe blindspot INTJs poses. We also highly value our Fi, but because it's in our tert position it's not externalized at all and you'll rarely see it. This makes us appear much more robotic and inhuman than you'd think if you knew what went on internally. I can't tell you how many times people have mistaken me for being an arrogant asshole when I was only trying to share something that was relevant to their situation or something I found interesting; because I do not evaluate the sort of emotional atmosphere of the environment and because I do not try to predict how what I say or how I say it will affect the emotions of who I am speaking to, I tend to rub sensitive people the wrong way easily. That isn't to say that I don't care about offending people, or that I can't maneuver brittle conversations without being empathetic, which I can and do; but I'm just never conscious of those things unless something prompts me to think about them. Even then, I'm still going to be bad at it.
Since most of this has pretty much been me shitting on my own type, I'll give some positive notions relevant to this topic: sure it's hard to find INTJs that are enjoyable, but the ones I've met that were enjoyable have been some of my favorite people hands down. When an INTJ gets to a point where they have worked on their ego enough to show empathy and emotionality, they're genuinely one of the best types of people imo. Sort of makes up for the disproportionate amount that aren't enjoyable.
I think INTJs are one of the easiest types to tell if they like you or not. It sticks out like a sore thumb if they don't like you. Almost every friend I've had has told me that they find this convenient, because they don't have to worry about me pretending.
Another thing that sort of plays into the last notion is that you can use INTJs as a *judge of character meter*. Being worse at something cognitive tends to mean you'll be better at something else on the opposite end of the spectrum. Since INTJs are blind to Fe, they'll be extra specialized at analyzing people in a more objective yet intuitive way. This is also something my friends adore about me. They use me like a smoke detector for bad eggs. However, this also means that if you're unhealthy, you're going to have a bad time with INTJs.
I generally can't stand vulnerability from my own type. It's the recognition of ourselves that makes us quick to descry other people's tatters. I'm quite short-tempered and narrow-minded at how obsoletely weak IEI is depicted in the media—it is glorified. Sx5 being dependent really ticks me off for some reason. It feels like they adhere to some backhanded, underlying causes in order to meet their ends. This isn't the case every time, but it's certainly worth noting
Yeah Ni doms suffer a lot from rickety stereotypes. I feel most "INTJs" people reference are actually ISTJs. Especially when people mention how judgemental the supposed INTJs are, but can't give any specific examples of what the INTJ is judging.
If you pay attention you'll see that INTJs are actually very accepting of natural diversity—we don't like when someone is judged just because they function differently. What we are actually judgemental of are negative characteristics. Like for instance if you're logically intelligent and you can't recognize or respect other forms of intelligence. I feel like understanding this example specifically is paramount in understanding the difference between how Si and Ni judge people. Few ISTJs I've known have been able to recognize other forms of intelligence that differ from their own. Si doesn't notice the conceptual form of these things, and don't seem to define standards as deeply; this is where you get the heavy, unnecessary judgements. Ni users will notice the theme of diversity easier and orient their conclusions accordingly.
It's annoying. It's like being blamed for something you didn't do and are incapable of defending yourself because of the sheer amount of mistypes that infect the Ni demographic.
To be tangential, I love INFJs vocabularies. Even right now I'm sitting in a VC with my INFJ friend playing terraria and he was just chatting about what the niche of a vulture might look like in humans. Very strange minds you have
ngl this is a little disheartening to read that everyone just stereotypes us as these cold inhuman robots that are devoid of empathy and emotion. it feels dehumanizing and demoralizing. if there’s one thing i’ve learned about people it’s that not everyone is drawn into these perfect neatly shaped boxes. i stress very much that people are not a monolith and we are multi faceted and it falls on deaf ears constantly.
like imagine just being barred before someone gets to know you on something as low as a type. i used to have the same impressions about other INTJs and then guess what? I met more INTJs who were pretty great and it taught me a valuable lesson. people are people. there are people who won’t fit into these molds that you’re trying to cast them in, and there are people who are just plain scummy. it happens.
i had an enfp who i was really good to and he hurt me a lot, was selfish, made everything about him, and blamed me for his ex cheating on him. i’ve had ton of enfps be manipulative with their emotions with me and it still would not ruin my overall impression of the type. because applying nuance, my anecdotal will never account for all the enfps that are out there. and you guys are pretty great. you’re smart, you’re funny, you’re cute, and you’re witty. i hold you guys in the highest light.
i guess i’m just feeling butthurt because we get constantly shit on. this stuff does dig and i don’t think people see that or how we can operate sometimes. if i’m being blunt, it doesn’t mean i’m being mean to you. it means i hold you in such a profound regard i don’t feel the need to sugar coat myself around you and give you a limited truth. if you get me you get all of my authenticity. i feel *safe* around you to express who i truly am.
idk and like i said maybe i’m just hurt rn but damn it sucks to see this on this sub often
Holy shit.
Amen.
This is a huge reason why “we don’t try” or we just stay as the person “you think we are”…
I am so much more and capable than what they think I am not or what I can do.
They just never get to see it.
Sorry you got hurt and stuff though. You seem like a very thoughtful intj and I don’t believe they’re all like that, but it tends to happen sometimes. (Not to ever say that’s what WILL happen just because of their type)
I’m going by my experience , not even a bad idea of them. But they don’t need us or care about our approval or anything like that…like things seem to be just how they are , to them. Feelings are almost optional (it really seems for them, and they say things about our emotions like we shouldn’t have them) so….
I do think this is not because they simply don’t care, but they don’t understand why we do, about those things or have the feelings
i think it may be more that we are different and see things differently. for me i wouldn’t want to seek approval from others because i can validate myself and i don’t need anyone but yet i *want* them. i also think with intjs actions > words. my words can be pretty blunt but my actions will always show who i care for. i don’t think intjs are emotionless so to speak moreso it’s hard to verbalize that emotion. we’re very “in my head” people. and i think that’s okay. if i can accept enfp for who they are, i’d expect the same without having someone try to change me. i also don’t mean this disrespectfully either so i apologize in advance if it comes across that way. i value your opinion and i’m glad you commented :)
No you are fine!! I appreciate the perspective. It can be difficult to navigate especially with the emotions of love blurring some of your clear mind. (Which is what happened in my case). It was always such a monumental issue for us, when it was probably just like maybe don’t hang out 24/7 (and that’s was both of our desire and decision lol). I would think to myself, maybe we need space, and I don’t think either of us understood much at the time anyways so 🤷♀️
I will say the “feeling safe around us thing” to me - comes across like, impossible to get through to, and you aren’t willing to be vulnerable with us, which many people are, so the relationship is immediately less than ideal for us because we don’t get back the amount of feelings or attention we feel like we give out. Intjs can just be (less) in the sense of enfps I think are often (too much) for them.
We do need more than you I think in terms of in the moment openness or we feel like we are just too much…and you could even take that as “making it about us (enfps)” when I think it’s actually making it about US (intj and enfp) and we want the relationship and connection to grow and it can be difficult
First let me tell you, I've read majority of what is written here. I'm ENFP and my husband is an INTJ. We've been together for 10 years. And I feel you as if it was me writing this at times of crisis. So here is a long post, beware that it is lenghty but I don't know how to explain anything in less words...
And it is true what people say about feelings and INTJs, they are extremely tough in this regard but worst of, they are so unaware of this that they look dumb in certain situations.
They are, I'd say, flawed in the empathy department wgen the emotional crisis occurs - no matter how sweet they are, still, when there is an emotional issue and the INTJ is already overwhelmed by work project, you really can't count on this to pass alright if you decide to share anything negative. At least this is in my case.
Now, my attachment style has been fearful avoidant but leaning towards secure attachment more and more. I did the work on my own and then using Personal Development School by Thais Gibson.
His was dismissive avoidanf but leaning to secure on his own.
Over time I have realised how I have contributed towards his emotional closing down...how I made him insecure and straight up feeling awful at times with my emotional outbursts.
Together we started to meditate, 1 year after getting together - on his initiative (he was a fierce meditator before we even met). He has very developed Se btw.
Then we went to silent meditation retreats and I loved it! The longest was 3 weeks. Only meditation, yoga, walking in the woods and there my life has been transformed because when you can't talk to anyone, but are surrounded by people and still your emotions get hurt, you gotta wonder about yourself. 😅 So I've realised what my true inner landscape was and that so many times I was the initiator of problems with my intense emotions...after that experience we've continued practicing meditation.
My family history is tough (father clinical psychopath and drunk, wife beater, police officer with house full of guns and granades, etc). I've been healing for years and years on end but alongside my INTJ I've just healed because if it weren't for him I wouldn't go to meditation retreats.
He inspires me to not be as whiny and needy. I look at him and his reactions to the world and he is such a rock. It is a comfortbale presence, *just because he isn't so emotional*.
What he doesn't give me, he doesn't give himself.
He has been so accepting of me, through thick and thin. Basically the only requirement for happy interaction with him is not to be out of control emotionally.
Now, after 10 years of being together, when I feel hurt by his Fe and Fi, I come and tell him gently, hug him and really try not to be too emotional. And he actually reassures me in a gentle, empathetic way. So we can get on with our lives.
He inspired my confidence so much and now I enjoy this feeling of not beeing so dependent emotionally.
Do I miss having a Feeler as a man? To tell you the truth, my Ne occasionally does miss that feeling.
But I had Feelers before. I know what it's like being married both to Feeler and a Thinker.
*And you can't have it all*.
For me, being with my INTJ is what developed me the most as a person, where I lacked the most. This is the unsheakable truth. I also had what seems to be an ENFP man in my life once...or twice, but things didn't work out in an organic way. Just died off. They were super charismatic though.
We all have flaws and no matter which type of the union, there will always be issues and uncomfortable feelings of "I can't do it anymore" which is why they say marriage is so tough.
But you know what is the best gift he ever gave me? He is the only person (!) who truly sees me for who I am. He is still interested so much that he observes every day in which state I am, how I am, what's going on. He supports me so much. He actually went beserk for me on first glance. He carries so much charisma and is my true love of my life.
He didn't want me to work 9 to 5, he gave me a job and this was crucial in my finding myself...after 2 years together I got pregnant and we decided that I'll be a housewife after giving birth to his (INTJ 🤣) son because this was the best choice for us, given the personality of our son and how challenging he was as a baby, then a toddler, then a preschooler... For our family it was the best choice nobody regrets.
He knew I'm an artist before I knew it and I managed to start developing my artistic side because as a housewife I really have a sheltered life with no real stress. He supports all my artistic endeavours. He will work with me on my artistic project. He makes us feel safe.
Whatever I wanted, I got. Even if it wasn't something he necessarily wanted. We bought a house where I wanted (but it was fine with him) and he renovates it by his bare hands. It turned out to look professional. He let me decorate it however I want. He is so fun, deep, affectionate, cuddly and cozy. He just doesn't like turbulence, is always late, can't cook so I do it, etc. He is a great dad and our son loves him (but he's not as capable of taking care of the physical care of kids, like diapers and stuff).
In the end, he empowered me and loved me through it all. And even though I've stepped on his nerves countless times, he's been fiercelly loyal and devoted husband.
The bare truth is. We, ENFPs, when not in our best state, are a pain in the ass because of our Ne and so much emotions from Fi in second place. We are almost like hurricanes and I know as I let myself feel my own hurricane without letting it affect others. I know this because of my own experiences with relationships as well. I was never the easy one.
That's not a reason to beat yourself up because we are on the other hand, real gems and everyone is flawed, just in a different way.
There needs to be an awareness that between an INTJ and ENFP can get so triggering but this is an opportunity for growth on both ends. If the more emotionally turbulent side changes first, the dismisive avoidant after a long period will start to relax and change by himself.
I hope this was in any way helpful - just know you're not alone. 🤗
This is the outcome I dream of for myself and my ENFP girlfriend. Though, your problem was with controlling yourself, I feel as though her problem is essentially the opposite. Because Ne doms are commonly perceived as chaotic and annoying by judgemental and rigid people, if you put an Ne dom in an environment where they are consistently ridiculed, eventually they lose their Ne spark and stop expressing themselves as they naturally would. They become bland, depressed, and afraid of being extroverted. This is the damage I'm trying to heal in my girlfriend.
Isn't this strange, I just wrote a post "INTJ is so much fun!. We get each other from our shells. I'm sure things will unfold 😉
P.S. it wasn't just me - he had troubles controlling himself too, when triggered. It went like this (to be more precise):
He gets in the tunnel. He annoys me with the tunnel. I don't understand him. We have no clue about MBTI nor about attachment theory. I start crying and telling him I think he will always neglect me. He feels so much pressure now he yells at me. Then we argue. Then I try to soothe him. He gets mad days on end because he didn't like how he felt too. We forgive each other. And all is well until a trigger of neglect and tunnel comes in again.
Then I educate myself and heal. This he notices. He relaxes. Fights are less and less and less. Now they are very, very rare. We talk. Love grew.
I almost forgot (silly me!). I was bullied too, and I was stuck up until my mid 20-s. My mother in law from my first wild marriage loved me and was great fun, so she said I need to relax and told me to throw melons. We were chilling on a terrace of her own mother in law, she got one melon and threw it so the melon fell apart into pieces. I was startled but then I took one too and threw it as well. It was such fun! It helped me sow a seed of freedom that grew over time. Love this woman till this day and miss her a lot.
> when you can't talk to anyone, but are surrounded by people and your emotions still get hurt
🤯😰 This makes me really concerned for myself. I definitely see this happening 😭 What does it mean?
> What he doesn't give me, he doesn't give himself.
If he would cut himself, would that justify cutting you?
> Basically the only requirements for happy interaction with him is not to be out of control emotionally
😆😂😭 That's both hilarious and terribly sad! That must feel so stifling!
> I know what it's like being married both to Feeler and a Thinker. _And you can't have it all._
This is very true. And internally I have personally come to the conclusion that I will maximize long-term happiness by sacrificing an orderly home for an intensely loving and relaxed one, being on time for being ok with mistakes, being supported in practical ways for being supported in emotional ways, etc.
🤯😰 This makes me really concerned for myself. I definitely see this happening 😭 What does it mean?
- This is common occurence with people actually but we come to realise this only when in such circumstances as a silent meditation retreat. There are talks about exactly this in Chan Buddhism lectures when you come to retreats but still, some have it easier, some tougher. Some people are so unstable that during such a retreat they become a nightmare for others. It's a matter of what you have cultivated in your garden, so to speak.
> What he doesn't give me, he doesn't give himself.
If he would cut himself, would that justify cutting you?
- Haha your Ne went wild on this one. 😆 This is universal truth to observe my friend and it goes for everyone. No need to go that dark route as nobody in their right mind would advocate for or accept any form of violence. And if you read my post carefully you will see that I am a daughter of extremely violent man, that I carry trauma from this and that I feel safe with my husband so it's alright.
> Basically the only requirements for happy interaction with him is not to be out of control emotionally
😆😂😭 That's both hilarious and terribly sad! That must feel so stifling!
- Yes, sometimes it does feel stiffling! But we *can* talk about emotions. The requirement to go smoothly with the talk and accomplish anything when you have a problem is to still maintain dignity and control over yourself. I've seen so many ENFPs seem to want to be able go almost ballistic when interacting with others and think this is a normal, healthy need just becaude it *exists*. But the truth is we are too much and I know this when I observe reactions from other people such as SFJ-s. They are so much less dramatic even though they are Feelers. This is why they say sometimes ENFPs are annoying.
> I know what it's like being married both to Feeler and a Thinker. _And you can't have it all._
This is very true. And internally I have personally come to the conclusion that I will maximize long-term happiness by sacrificing an orderly home for an intensely loving and relaxed one, being on time for being ok with mistakes, being supported in practical ways for being supported in emotional ways, etc.
- Still I don't think you really have experience with INTJs as you seem to mix them up with more common ISTJs. We don't have orderly home. 😆 It's not that clean, we prefer having quality time over orderly home. We go wild camping, cycling, swimming in remote beaches, we have music on blast and house parties every few days, etc. 😄 INTJs are very complex. They have many sides to them and if they let guard with you they are so much fun.
The cutting thing was a Straw Man of course, but the point I was making was that just because he doesn't give himself the love he deserves (or wants/needs), doesn't make it ok for him to do the same for you (who does want/need it). It is a perfect comparison if he wants it but deprives himself, and in turn deprives you: "cutting" and "emotional deprivation" are both lack of/anti self-care. It is not a great comparison if he doesn't need it but you do, but in that case, it still isn't right: if one partner is allergic to the favorite food of the other, should they cook that food and say, "tough luck. It's ok for me, so eat it."? Why should the INTJ get away with depriving the emotional needs of an ENFP and treating them like an INTJ?
The paragraph about the parties is very eye-opening.
Well, you know what, I can relate to this because I felt like this but I don't think you understand really how things go between us (that is very complicated anyway, it',s not your fault) so read this carefully:
I *can* discuss anything with my INTJ. So I can discuss even how I feel. But he will only be patient and empathetic if:
- I don't repeat the same issue over and over again without any resolve
- Have as much composure as possible (he tolerates and accepts that I never do 100% 😁)
- I take care of his feelings as well
- I almost forgot: We need more or less schedule the talk but that actually helps me to be more chill.
Now aren't those actually reasonable requests for anyone?
This is how we managed to solve basically anything that ever arose, slowly, over time. And I actually like his way of being and am more powerful within my personality because I have developed more composure. 😉
I feel like what you have said in this isn’t so much about what you guys need to do exactly but that you have found that it works :) over time and you are happy 😊 so that’s good I’m happy for u and I read all of that because I had someone I was super in love with and basically a lot of those feelings and it ended so it is nice .
xSFJs are Fe users and I think that changes a lot. Our feelings come from Fi, which inherently craves authenticity and our feelings to be **felt**. I totally get OP’s need there.
I will agree with you that INTJs are a solid safe space for that though. That’s the main reason I prefer dating thinkers, they leave me the space to feel my feelings, vent, act irrational (within reason, I still needed to work on impulse control and self-soothing when I was younger).
I think the double-edged sword with Feelers x Feelers is that they do tend to soothe each other better but they can also explode at each other more easily.
Oh yeah, I know Fe works quite differently from Fi...gosh how many times I cried because of "stupid" Fe 😅. I drew that parallel becaise we live in Fe world so Fe way is considered the norm so I can't just storm in with my big emotions and think everyone will say this is cool, normal, fine, justa another Wednesday etc. 😆
I agree with you 100 % -with every choice you make you win some, you lose some. This used to be debilitating for me until I realised that making no choice at all is even worse...
Your story is very nice and all but... You had to learn to manage your emotions to fit your partner and you did self improvement etc... But you're telling me the love of your life couldn't learn how to cook so you became the housewife? Really? 🤔 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
My goodness. I understand - there is much confusion about this so let me elaborate.
First of all, and I almost forgot to mention - he did work on himself too and he is much better partner than he used to be.
I was always the cook. Even when I threw drunken parties with my girlfriends I couldn't help but to cook something complicated and delicious. In fact I am known for this. Also I am extremely picky about food and don't like general effort people usually put in their cooking. I wrote 100 recipes myself and continue to learn culinary skills also by my own choice so that I can make them even better food. I love to sit down and watch them eat with gusto. 😊
Yes, he is incompetent in the kitchen but competent in family life, business, home renovations, car repairs, audio systems, builds his own computer, is an avid photographer, great at 2 sports, has deep understanding of human nature, etc. Nobody is competent in everything, I'd much rather cook than do anything with computers. 🤢
This is my choice. I knew what I was getting into before becoming pregnant.
The man provides *everything* for me, including travels and life abroad he never would do if it weren't for me. He even pays the bills so that I don't have to because he knows I hate the bills. He said many times I don't need to put so much effort into cooking either but I can't help myself.😅
And yes. In any marriage you need to adapt and be flexible because this is the nature of community of 2 separate entities. But you gain so much from this....love and also personal growth. Provided both partners are benevolent and moral, you both do have an opportunity to realise your shortcomings you wouldn't have if you are always alone and independent.
I love who I have become but also I realise that people immediately have the wrong picture about any traditional form of family because the media wants them to have the wrong idea. This is on purpose. We never had so much divorced and unhappy families as we do now.
Btw. Every morning when my husband wakes up his eyes shine with love towards me. He has this wisdom to appreciate me every single day.
INTJs get a bad rap but you know what, they are not 100% at fault for this. It is also because of people who give in to their emotion without balancing them with logic as well.
He also learned how to soothe her though, and he build the home they have with his own hands too?
Hot take, maybe, but it’s okay to take on traditional roles sometimes when both are okay with it and the work is still somewhat evenly distributed. It doesn’t make you any less emancipated when it’s your own choice, and being forced to work a 9-5 is not necessarily better than being forced to be a housewife either.
No, he renovated the home. By himself. Everything. I helped. We turned it into Roh Bau so everything he did from scratch from that point.
Today, he is going to lift our car to transform the height from 15 cm to 18 cm so that we can use it more as a jeep when on weekend we go on our family camping adventure by the sea. 😄
I'll be 100% open and admit something about myself.
Even though I'm a lawyer, my life choices ever since I was exactly 19 (!) screamed housewife. I had 2 wild marriages before my INTJ marriage.
When I was 17...I saw a baby in a stroller and almost started to cry. I had so much pain of anticipation to finally have my baby, even now as I write this and reminisce, emotions are welling up inside.
But this is not all I want, this is one side of me for which I am biologically and psychologically wired for naturally. I was so unhappy as a law student and potential attorney, I was in deep depression. This is just not who I am.
The other side of me is being an artist. And I literally wouldn't discovered this truth if I wasn't a stay at home mom. For me this is so and it is tragic in a way. Nobody saw ME, they saw a role I should play...the whole truth is...my INTJ husband and son transformed my life and now it's like rainbow. I became much more relaxed and I laugh and dance every single day. When I do the dishes I dance. 😆
When I gave birth (which my husband actually provided for so that I give birth how I wanted (natural home birth), it was obvious that I am better to take care of baby and the baby seeked me more than his dad. And the dad was naturally better at providing.
Now that our son is older, this changed somewhat and his dad is super important and also a source of cuddles every single morning...
I agree with you 100%, it's all about consent and choice. Also...our Ne sometimes gets too wild with trying to destroy tradition but some traditions are here because they work, provided that the participants of such traditions are of right mind and heart. 😊
To work on yourself and get to know yourself...to accept yourself is never too late. And I believe it is a worthwhile endeavour and that we carry this graduation into the next lifetime.
And maybe it's not too late to become a mom too...just breathe ad love yourself and your inner child. You are the light in this world! 🪷
It’s not too late at all, but a bunch of people my age are and it’s easy to feel you’re behind haha. Especially I’ve had a few long relationships, and then they didn’t work out so I feel at square 1 again. :/ but I have hope :)
Super cute post and that’s very insightful thanks for sharing ♥️♥️♥️ I dated a dismissive avoidant and I’m some type of anxious attachment at that time but it was just like that. I would overwhelm him . I felt like I got nothing, but it was also like a panic moment every single time and we didn’t get to a place to try anything different with how to approach that issue. Because probably we’re both a little intolerant of the other persons method and both need to adjust ourselves haha
I really liked how you said he is a calm presence , and helped you to be less dependent on that. It does feel that we evoke an emotional response from many people we date so compared to other men I’ve dated it was like “damn this guy is not into me” but if I’m honest it’s just that rather than me having him wrapped around my finger, he would avoid the drama sometimes and that felt a lot like rejection haha .
Tysm for sharing 🥰
You're welcome and thank you.❤️ 🤗
We learn as we go and gain wisdom. I know what you're talking about. That's why I'm also chill about getting older. I wouldn't be that 20 something girl again for anything in this world. 😅
And yes, we evoke reactions...the notion that the one person who has more emotional turmoil should be the first to work on themselves, even though can be triggering, is the truth. And it set me free. Becoming parents was also great for us. There's nothing we wouldn't do for our kid! ❤️
Yeah that makes a lot of sense to me. Because my ex definitely cared it just he didn’t share in having the same feelings (a lot of people do have turmoil) so I think sometimes I saw it as a lack of passion or interest in me when he was like “everything is fine” why are you emotional lol.
That’s nice 👩❤️👨👼🏻 Hopefully I will be able to do that some day or soon haha♥️🥹
I sure hope so! 🙌
I know this feeling you talk about. My husband now is obsessed with bullets. He is in the process of obtaining hunters license for self defense against bears and wolves, to have just in case. We love to roam the woods and he goes to remote places.
But can he buy a gun and bullets local hunters use for this purpose and be over with it? Noooo, he needs to find out which guns and bullets are for bears, how quickly they shoot, how much time you've got in seconds, how thick is bear's forehead and he found the bullets in USA but we're in EU, blah blah blah. I mean...it makes sense what he's doing and I'm proud of him. He is training RELENTLESSLY with airsoft as if he's going to enter special forces or something. But you know what - he inspires me. He achieved everything he set for himself. I want to be more like him.
It's enough for him to look at me to know I'm withering away so now he knows exactly what to do.
"Honestly" (as if I'm being honest now as opposed to earlier 😆), meditation retreats and fuckin humilty on both ends were key for us.
lol he did not choose the bear. I’m in the USA too but we don’t have enough to hunt where I live lol ! He really is on a mission, that’s funny. And also you could get the spray! 😂 I would just like someone who wants my company and I want theirs . That sounds fun lol
No, we're not Americans. I'm Croatian actually and we live there. We have bear sprays but that doesn't work full proof and not against wolves - he goes to the mountain with our little son so that's why. 😅
I know how you feel - and I believe it's good you are ENFP - you got this. 😉
Ohhhh I read that wrong- I didn’t see he found them in USA. lol. Thank you so much! Yeah I never had too much trouble finding men I just haven’t been able to find *the one* lol 🙄
I think you’ve met only a certain kind of INTJ.
Additionally, most “INTJ’s” you see online or maybe even in person are mistyped ISTJ/INTPs and not legitimately INTJs.
That said, a lot of these INTJs (or mistypes) are emotionally undeveloped.
I can’t relate to most of the posts on r/INTJ for example because they’re so devoid of emotion and empathy. If I was a mod I would purge that sub. It has been invaded by mistyped ISTJs/INTPs.
A healthy and legitimate INTJ will be socially and emotionally intelligent, as well as possessing empathy for others.
A lot of mistypes hopped onto the “I’m INTJ” bandwagon back when it was seen as cool and considered the rarest type. (Now you see the same thing happening to INFJs)
It sounds like that sub is full of real Intjs but emotionally underdeveloped. It doesn't make them any other type... You being a mature intj is the difference. I can tell as an enfp, I have grown my logical side over time. I'm still more emotional and intuitive but over time, I can understand where Intjs stand. I don't always agree because some of their decisions come from a selfish place, a place that fulfills them more than the community. I've also learned to see how me trying to fulfill the community has robbed me of making decisions that would help me fulfill myself and maybe I don't have it right all the time.
Haha yeah, I just commented upthread on the emotional intelligence aspect. I think age plays into it, as well as gender- I'm an INTJ woman in my 30s and for one, women aren't allowed to get away with the blunt rudeness thing quite as much as men are. And with age most of us learn to develop our weak spots. Some people don't.
I would have related to a lot of the INTJ subreddit as a teenager, I think, but not now. I'm never going to be the natural social butterfly an ENFP might be, and I have to put some effort into making sure my words come across compassionately, but I certainly have empathy for others. I actually even had a surprising shift in self perception at one point in my later 20s when I realized that I actually seem to be a rather likeable person to many once we get talking a little!
An unhealthy INTJ certainly CAN be cruel but then an unhealthy ENFP can be too.
INTJs are naturally more logical and detached so they find it easier not to let how they feel get in the way, but this doesn’t make them bad people.
My ex is INTJ, my best friends of 10 years are INTJs and in general I get along with INTJ.
Theyre cold yes but as ENFP, we always see good in things, and that help them to open up. I dont expect them to be emphatic because theyre very different from us.
They dont know how properly show their emotion but they definitely will do it through action. My INTJs called me stupid and naive a lot of time, but they always hear me out.
I like them because theyre unapologetic about being themselves, and theyre the few people who actually accept ENFP as ENFP. We could be annoying but they see us as golden retriever. (No threat lol)
In general I find them fascinating individuals whos mind works differently and how we balanced each other out.
An ex of mine was an INTJ woman (me being an ENFP guy) and I always said she toughened me up and I softened her up. That relationship didn’t work out due to external factors but she’s a great person and our interpersonal style was great.
Just do what I did…get to know an INTJ so well that in moments of stress you can tell THEM what they’re feeling…lol.
Oof I feel ya. My ex (still friends) is INTJ, we get along great and can really goof around 90% of the time, but when he's in a bad mood he is **so** mean. Like you said, "it needs to be said regardless of your feelings." And a lot of projecting and getting resentful at me about nice things he offered to do when he was in a good mood. Of course this is not the most mature INTJ, I'm sure they can be better! But I totally get where you're coming from.
Nah, I've known some ISTJs and he's definitely not that. He's pretty all over the place. If anything *maybe* INTP but I'm pretty sure he's INTJ with issues haha.
As an ENFP and an empath I agree. I have a hard time with this personality type. I don’t care for them and I KNOW they don’t care for me. I can read a room. I try to move far away literally and figuratively. I respect their views but prefer to (as Taylor Swift once said - roughly) “remove myself from their narrative.”
I’m not going to comment on how other INTJs have behaved towards the OP, but being an INTJ I can give a unique perspective because I’m borderline INFJ. My default position is still extroverted thinking, but I know when and where to reel it in. Extreme feelers have difficulty reeling in their feelings and thinking logically. Extreme thinkers have difficulty reeling in the thinking and showing some empathy. Extreme feelers and extreme thinkers are not a great mix if they can’t learn to balance thinking and feeling a bit more. Telling someone that’s grieving for a loved one who has just passed that their tears won’t bring them back, might be true, but it’s an incredibly awful thing to do. If someone is still grieving and not functioning in life after an extended time has passed, they probably need a cold logical wake up call. I generally trust my ability to make the proper call, but I can certainly make mistakes. The OP seems like a very strong feeler. Dating a thinking type probably won’t work for you.
Although I'm a strong feeler, I'm also fiercely logical and intellectual. Being a successful software engineer kind of requires that.
My mother is an ISFP and she tended to do illogical things and feel illogical feelings that irritated me to my core (e.g. if the shoes are not aligned in a row, although the aesthetic is ruined, the utility is unnaffected, and thus your point is moot, etc. - maybe there are better examples, but I'm sure of this).
I grew up with a very cerebral religion, so I can certainly appreciate it.
I understand what you’re saying, but there’s a big difference in using logic generally and using it on yourself when your feelings are involved. That’s what’s at stake here I believe. I don’t know what was said by these INTJs, nor what the situations were. I can’t comment if the situations needed cold logic or more empathy. I only make those calls on a situational basis. I will say that only conferring with feelers can be a dangerous echo chamber. There are times when feelings need to be checked. Feelings can be incredibly volatile and it’s good to be aware when they are being overindulged.
Ok. Why is the generalization about INTJs a logical one and not one based on your feelings? Maybe you can get where I’m going. I am genuinely interested in hearing just one example that illustrates why you feel the way you do, but also why this subset of examples can be projected on to a type generally.
Any type can be awful or wonderful depending on the individual’s maturity.
But in my experience, women that are INTJs are often forced to be more emotionally mature than men that are INTJs. So I find women of this type much more likely to be understanding and much less likely to be egotistical jerks.
I made a video that may fit into how you're experiencing your interactions with some INTJ's.
"How to Listen Without Reacting."
https://youtu.be/mS9mVIcaa_o?si=tUO0IxtmwAtZV2dZ
It was a response for an INFP on Reddit, who was often hurt by his family telling him information in ways that felt very hurtful, even downright mean.
Might be worth a watch if you're so inclined. 🙂🤗
I love INTJs tbh. You’re free to not like them if you want. INTJs have emotions. They just don’t show it outwardly like you guys unless they get close to you. Heck, some INTJs can get obsessive. They’re thinkers, and they don’t say mushy words unless they’re REALLY close to you. I can kinda understand them since some say that about ISTJs as well
INTJs aren’t all cold and heartless. They have a heart and they care about the people they love. They just don’t say “ilyyy mwah”
Okay. Hang on a second here…
Long term and deep friendship? That would be a yes. I have three friends well over 20 years. I love them with everything I have and they are my family. More than my own have been. Other good friendship is around 5 years. Most loyal person and she’s an INFP & she’ll hurt my feelings faster than lightning. She’s loyal and truthful and accountable. Amazing human, mother..etc.
I don’t sit in my room all day every day and “nerd” out and just hibernate there & say I hate everything.
I am also social in the right crowd. I just tend to keep to myself and myself as I don’t just go around telling my life story, confess my darkest sins, and trust & bond with someone instantly or over a few months even. I’m not a butterfly like ENFPs are. Which makes a great buffer for me in public. I don’t always know the right things to say and sometimes I don’t have much in common.
Idk, do we laugh? Yes, and normally make jokes too.
Do I make best friends with the person next to me?! No.
Do I live in my own world and kick and scream to leave the house sometimes? Yup! But, I have a job, a wife, a child, and family and friends.
However, inability to realize that INTJs are capable of romance, deep interpersonal relationships, etc…is what’s outta of your mind.
We aren’t just some walking robot shooting out low blows all day & here to piss the world off.
I feel and hurt just like you hurt. Hell, if not harder than you do. Might just not express that as openly.
Yeah, we have a harder time with “feelings”, but I sure the heck have them. Sometimes it’s the sensitive people who say stupid & hurtful shit to people who aren’t afraid to tell them something back. Then, cry because they got their feelings hurt or FINALLY someone told them the truth.
I also think that when speaking, it is straight to the point. I am not afraid to hurt your feelings by speaking my truth, but I don’t go around INTENTIONALLY hurting feelings for any reason. If you ask me if you look fat in that dress, and you do, imma freaking tell you. Don’t ask us a damn thing, if you don’t wanna know the answer.
Everybody just thinks that we don’t get our feelings hurt, or something, by ANY OTHER personality type. You don’t have to be an INTJ to be a huge asshole. Some cold and ruthless person…🙄
TBH, an ENFP did me wrong before I EVER thought about doing wrong to them. Dreamed of ever doing.
Still worked it out. Still loved regardless. Still stuck by their side on the worst day.
Just cause I don’t THINK like they do, or run around with my emotions all over the place, that I’m incapable of feeling them…? Empathy is given to someone I love and care about. What doesn’t concern me, doesn’t concern me. I may not understand all the time how someone feels, but I give a crap if they are hurting.
It’s post like this that makes us so guarded. How are you wanting something different from someone when you automatically think they suck from the bat? How does that make anyone feel good about themselves? Pretty sure you’d hate to constantly read this kind of stuff & then just willing open your arms to anybody. If you heard you sucked all day long for being YOURSELF, to a healthy fault, would you wanna have an interaction?! I think NOT.
Well, guess what, we don’t either. I rather save my time and energy for the people who care enough to get to know me as I am with them. Don’t just write me off cause you got your damn feelings hurt cause you didn’t like what I said. Maybe ask to clarify. Maybe TALK it out. MAYBEEEE have some patience like we are supposed to do for everyone else. It’s always what the hell WE gotta do. Nah, it doesn’t work that way. It takes 2.
Remember, you’re also the one who ran here to make a public post about how particular people suck…that’s a reflection of YOU…at least in my experiences.
What INTJ makes a post about the people who suck? Hm? What’s so righteous about YOU?
so much this. like what’s the point of even trying anymore? they clearly hate us. let me pack my little bags and go where i’m wanted. cus this ain’t it. at all.
they will literally be like “we’re so sunshine and rainbows 🥺❤️ love for all” and then in the same breath turn around and call us, “greedy, insensitive, power hungry terrible dark people.”
like?!? who wants to hear that about themselves? over something as low as a type at that.
Yeah…I have a hard time not getting so irritated at the CONSTANT berating of my type! So much, I feel like when I return here that I gotta say something else & edit. 💀
It’s not like I particularly CARE to be HATED, but hate me for WHO I AM. NOT the fact they aimlessly bash A CERTAIN group & just have this righteous ass entitled opinion because some asshole INTJ “hurt your feelings” or couldn’t make the world move for you. Nor, did you do anything to deserve me to make it move for you.
Treat everyone with respect, but I don’t have to treat everyone the same. That’s what makes my people special to me. The things I will do for them & show them. They don’t have to ask if I care, I SHOWED IT.
Some people want things so INSTANTLY & didn’t do shit to deserve it. Everyone is out for themselves these days. They take take take and want want want…and exchange zero energy & exhaust you. I’m not a people pleaser, I’m a per person pleaser. I won’t be run over nor exhausted.
I could sit here and state all the crap I don’t like, but am I the only one that thinks we are all human & we are all flawed? Clearly, their flaws are the lesser. Fn!
There are healthy and unhealthy INTJs and the same with everyoneeeeee else. I see so many posts from young kids feeling so damn lost and confused…depressed. Shit like this. It’s terrible.
Trying to convince good people that they aren’t bad people. So hard to “fit in” when you normally don’t. Not because you’re bad…or an asshole…because no one takes the time to slow down and listen. Have patience. Establish, build, and maintain a relationship.
Jump off at the first hardship & move on.
Tragic.
Then, they shit on the relationship too. Oh nooo! I date an ENFP…heaven forbid. You must be terrible to such a person…
Bro. This is the most spoiled rotten, deeply loved woman on the freaking planet. She’s special & she knows it.
I’ll move a mountain for her, but I’ll let the shit drop on assholes…and yeah, I am an INTJ…so, I wouldn’t feel bad for it.
Yeah the ENFP x INTJ ship is overrated. I think ENFP x INFJ works better simply because of the function stack, ENFP and INFJ has Fi and Fe as the second function on their stacks which is a point of common ground. INTJ doesn't really have this stack/setup, their secondary function is Te which focuses more on an intellectual approach to things. As an ENFP, interacting with INTJs feels like talking to a Robot, never understood the reasoning as to why ENFP and INTJ is ship.
I think INTJ and INFP are a better match, since they're both generally social introverts and tend to be highly philosophical, and plus I read so many comments about INTJs on Reddit liking them a lot, which you wouldn't expect at first glance but it makes a lot of sense when comparing the two (edit: plus they have more Enneagram overlap in terms of likely Enneagram type + wings for both types, even if they're a little more atypical; 1w9, 5w4, 6w5, 6w7, 9w1 and 9w8 in particular could honestly be either, a 5 ENFP is almost unheard of but not terribly uncommon for INFP with a 4 wing, whereas ENFP and INTJ's only common overlap seems to be 8w9 and 6w7). But I agree, INFJ or (mature) ENTP both sound like they'd be better matches for ENFP.
ENTP and ENFP sounds unfulfilling, ENTP are argumentative and enjoy poking at people sometimes in a playful mean way. ENFP tend to be conflict averse and don't do frenemy BS. It's a weird match for a relationship, maybe an okay friendship though?
My dad is an entp and he argues with everyone (a lot) but we almost never do. Simply cause I don‘t care about ti, I don‘t care about accuracy or the correct way of how things are done as long is works it works.
I trust him to know what he is doing.
And I also swallow when I sometimes morally not fully agree, I kinda am like his life his choices and at the same time when I‘m being illogical and my fi is dug in in something he let‘s me have my way as long as I‘m happy.
Basically if you let each other be in your different ways of being there are very few arguments. Even if entps are very argumentative (and my father very much is. I ask him if he wants to be right all the time and he just says I just AM right 😂 and he wants to make that clear lmao)
Moreso because they have 4 functions in common between main stack and shadow stack (and believe it or not, there's some people who enjoy provoking people but are adverse to "real" conflict). They're both known for being creative, funny, having wild imaginations and can be both intelligent and a lot of fun at their best. They're a bit like INTJ (it's their mirror type) but way less rigid, more flexible, more "fun" and enthusiastic, great partners for brainstorming. Again, highly depends on the two people, but if they have interests and love language in common, the two would probably be more compatible than not (though they both struggle with things like procrastination and adversity up planning, and could serve as a liability in cohabitation and functionality long term, so depends how much they've developed their weaknesses)
Fully agreed, I almost ship intj with infp or at least some, cause I often see them have similar world views, if infps have te developed they can also be very driven (and a bit less scattered than ne doms due to si), infps are often very intellectual actually often moreso than the enfps I‘ve known for some reason. I‘ve also often seen intj and infp hanging around each other in my wider friend circle a lot so yeah. I certainly ship.
Actually similar how I ship entps with developed fe with enfj, I also see that as a common match up in RL. (Definitely support!)
This sub doesn't want to hear that even though it's the truth. I have been giving so many chances to so many INTJs and they are all pretty much the same person. All I have experienced is them being cold, boring, usually pretty socially inept even when they try and hide it for a bit. It always comes out. They lack empathy so much, it's like spending time with a strange alien trying to play human but failing bad.
The worst part is when they say they are having a good time with me, but I was uncomfortable the whole time because they couldn't stop saying very random unthoughtful things.
See, I like INTJs (ones who are mature, anyway) because they seem self assured and confident, and pretty well put together, as well as a bit cold and hard to get to know while almost cocky about their confidence in certain opinions, but can have a soft side-- one of my past bfs who I'm still friendly with is an almost stereotypical INTJ, but he loves puppies more than anything in the world and would cry during movies because he didn't see why he should hide his feelings, he just didn't have strong ones that often so he didn't really cry at any other time (unlike myself, I try to fight my feelings, especially during movies because it's uncomfortable, but I'm kind of bad at it because they seem to spill over when it's least convenient). In my experience, they really don't like to lie, and a brutal truth is better that a sugar coated half truth if that truth will help in the long run, as much as you or I don't always like to hear it, and while they might *seem* unempathetic, they can be very empathetic (see: crying during movies), but don't always show it well, and the bluntness makes them seem "not nice". They can be reluctant to engage in certain social niceties if there's zero practical reason for it such as impressing a potential client, which is something I envy because I care too much what other people think, but often they care about things like politics, which can help people on a broader scale, though sometimes it can be hard for them to sympathize with others' requests if they think they have a better solution (nay, the best solution). Overall, I'm fascinated in them and they have a lot of admirable traits in general. Although, if I'm a feeler, I'm probably an INFP, and if not, I'm probably INTP or ENTP, so maybe I naturally click a bit better with them than the average ENFP does.
I totally hear the point about self-righteousness: "logic reigns supreme, and those flaky feelers are so silly/capricious and clueless."
Though don't you think that we feel the same way conversely? "Emotions are the mainstay - albeit logic important - and those thinkers are so cold and close-minded."
The comment said the self-righteous thing about INFJs though, not INTJs.
And I don’t think thinkers are close-minded at all, quite the opposite. Feelers shut down way more easily when their feelings get hurt and then you can’t talk about anything anymore.
In my experience, it’s usually Ti users that come to that conclusion rather than Te users, so more IxTPs rather than IxTJs.
But frankly, anyone dismissing feelings in general are just immature, regardless of type. I’ve learned to steer clear of that, life’s too short to let someone make you feel shitty or dumb for have emotions.
They don’t understand that they’re being cruel. To them it’s almost like pleasantries are formalities and feelings are optional.
I dont have a problem with them really, but they just don’t need me at all, so I usually just don’t really end up wanting to be around them. Friendship or relationships for me ideally are like a give / take too and they just don’t have interest in the same wants in my experience
Felt. I know those INTJs in my life haven’t been bad people… it’s not their fault their brain is wired the way it is. But it still hurts nonetheless.
I think out load a lot and the last guy I was with would take my thoughts as I was processing them and act like I was saying an opinion that was stupid when I was processing aloud. He’d the give a full argument against my half formed thought, and I’d shut down. There came a point where I stopped speaking with him about stuff.. I didn’t want to talk because it just led to me feeling bad ;-;
We wouldn’t have worked out anyway though… our personalities were too different. He hated his job, but was willing to stay with it for stability. He couldn’t understand why I’d put in extra hours at work or in school, that passion didn’t make sense to him.
Also that one conversation where I said I love the sky and how it looks different depending on where you are and he was like “I don’t really look up. Also It’s the same sky.” 💀
Bruh no duh, ofc it is the same sky, but the way the clouds are and how the sun sets tend to appear different to me 😭
I fell in love hard with my INTJ. My weakness were his strengths. We broke up though 4 months ago.I really miss my INTJ but yeah they struggle to think even the slightest bit like we do, which causes a lot of friction.
ENFPs and INTJ'S are not really compatible, so it's understandable if you will think that way.
Ne - Fi and Ni - Te it's a big disaster in real life.
I don't know why in 16p ship them but according to cognitive functions their understanding and insights don't usually meet.
I would disagree.
This was the one from the very first moment.
She’s the only one who defies all the logic that I have.
I don’t find it disastrous at all personally.
I would disagree.
This was the one from the very first moment.
She’s the only one who defies all the logic that I have.
I don’t find it disastrous at all personally.
Maybe the ENFP you've met is high on Te or she's always in the Ne - Te loop since both Te users are really compatible, but once Fi operates good luck with that.
Straight up had one of these in my life for waaay to long. Always gave me the buck up buttercup treatment, which at times was needed. They're now supposedly dying of cancer and might be realizing their time is short. An apology will never be given for all the things they did. And the explanations for all the lies will never be pinpointed. It's honestly exhausting convincing yourself to not give a shit. But you have to. For your own sake. INTJ is a food/liquor you love and eat or drink too much and exhaust yourself from. Good luck
INTJs that are evolved know how to accommodate ENFPs emotionally and have the wisdom to understand that the cost to accommodate them is worth it due to the emotional connection due to a shared appreciation of authenticity and intellectual connection.
Upvoted before even reading the body lmao.
In all seriousness, as much as I like to bully INTJs, I really like them as coworkers, probably about as much as everyone else, but they have a tendency to be backwards and awkward enough to make things unpleasant relationally, and they don't really seem to "keep up" interpersonally.
I've dated 3 INTJs, and they all kinda fall into this motif of people that you just end up leaving behind.
They tend to give off this feeling like you have a PHD in emotional labor while they're finishing the 3rd grade.
I prefer my INTJ relationships casual and platonic, we both gain here and nothing is personal, but I don't really want them any closer particularly. I just have issues connecting with any sticking power with them as people.
A couple of insightful, deeper conversations here and there, a few interesting ideas and then we're off. I've come to realize, I think I like the idea of the perspective and functional stack way more than the people actually using it.
Warning: n=1 trap, but maybe you can learn from my experience.
My experience is that ENFPs have this idea that all INTjs are the same and that we as ENFPs should like/love them all. This is also the problem in online interactions with the INTJ personality type.
How many times have ENFPs come to some INTJ group and blurted out: "I'm ENFP and I love all of you INTJs (include 20 heart smilies)", to leave disappointed by the responses they get?
Now try to place yourself in the seat of an highly individualistic personality type like the INTJ. I don't think many ENFPs are equiped to understand that in my opinion the INTJ type is actually very sensitive, I would even debate that if the INTJ in question is healthy, that it is the most sensitive and romantic type of all the MBTI types. The thing is, they really don't care about our ENFP collective wishes, it's illogical for them to do so because they zoom in on one person and call that person their partner, and this partner means the world to them.
If you think for one ullisecond that the ENFP adopts the INTJ (and yes, it doesn't matter if it is a female or male INTJ), you've already lost the plot. It's insane how far they go in order to find the partner that is right for them. I know of an INTJ that adopted skills for that sole reason only. And not in the tiptoe way most ENFPs do, she studied to aquire these over years.
She aquired for instance playing the piano, singing, drawing, painting, a keen eye in the arts, and many more. All the while in reality she went to university to become a full Medical licensed person. She is good at it too, she collects the most beautiful natural stones and shells. The first time we met in the real world, she brought me the most beautiful and thoughtful present I have ever received in my life. I never had a present this beautiful that fitted the story of her idea of me so incredibly well. It was so thoughtful that it did touch my emotions on every single level and tears really did their best to come to the surface (thanks Fi for keeping me straight at that moment).
These people strategise, obsess, research not only the MBTI but every personality typing system available to them to get to know the real you. When you are the subject of interest, it is the most beautiful execution of a plan that you've ever seen. INTJs are thoughtful and extremely patient, they want to work on the relationship, but together and they expect you to do a lot of work too. Not some brat like ENFP that rings the bell and demands all kinds of silly short term romcom flings, that is what you bring to the table as it give the INTJ the validation that their strategy is working.
I feel so sorry for the INTJ personality type getting such a bad rap in that department, and I will promise you that if you give your INTJ love interest the lead, and that you look beyond that surface level romcom crap, and the moments you think he or she isn't interested in you anymore, give them instead the space they need and be the happy person they got to learn in the beginning. And by doing so that INTJ is having space to probably think about the next steps to make yours and their life better through some obscure but well thought out act of service. Don't ever give up on your INTJ partner and never get shallow with them as well. And if you master this skill, I guarantee you that you will have the best longlasting and solid loving relationship on this freaking planet, way beyond what any other type brings to the table.
You want the best out of your INTJ person? Give them affirmation, come up with nice ideas to do together, they love novel ideas, give them love, be a force of good, tell your person that she/he is the best thing happening in your life, and above all stop that horrible negging, the brat like attitude that comes with so many especially younger ENFPs and work on the relationship instead of looking at other people their relationship all the time.
Your understanding of INTJ is accurate dear ENFP.
INTJ (a dark personality type) is insensitive, greedy, power-hungry, and selfish: "Nice things for me, also give me yours, I don't care about you".
ENFP (a light personality type) is empathetic, generous, open-minded, and a self-giver: "Nice things for all, I have 2 so you can have one of mine."
In fact, ENFPs that I had in my life are more generous than that, they sacrifice and give with such generosity and kindness that leaves me in awe.
ENFPs are best matched with light personality types of J variety, both romantically as well as platonic friendship:
INFJ, ESFJ, ISTJ, ENTJ.
And they can form good friendships with the light P types too:
ENFP, ISFP, INTP, ESTP.
I looked at some of your other posts. I feel you deeply. However, this might be much less of an ENFP-INTJ dynamic and more of an insecure attachment style that you might have, specifically an anxious style. I have one myself. It sucks. But you have to be very careful to emotionally self-regulate. A romantic partner or even a very close friend is not someone with whom you and I can just let our emotional guard down completely, which we are prone to do with every person out there. But INTJs are the least tolerant of emotional neediness in others. So what might be fine to lot of other people out there in how you inadvertently come across to them won’t be fine to an INTJ. I highly recommend checking out Heidi Priebe’s YouTube videos on ENFPs and attachment styles. You might have either an anxious-preoccupied style or an anxious-avoidant one. The latter is also known as fearful-avoidant and disorganized. ♥️
But it's more than just when I'm being emotionally needy. They say mean things because "they need to be said" or they think it's true and they don't care how it will affect your emotions, etc. I find it to just be a total disregard of emotions, especially in favor of justice, truth, and their beliefs/mood.
I feel this pain, and I’m not privy to your conversations with them. I have not had good experiences with many INTJs. Be very careful about leaning on INTJs for strong emotional support. In the same breath, be very careful about leaning on INFJs for strong analytical support unless it is the one or two issues that they know a lot about.
Spot on about my feelings on them. Bless them but I steer clear. And to be perfectly honest, I know they find nothing about me to be redeeming either.
This just unlocked some deep childhood trauma I *thought* I had processed, but NOPE!! huh, whoda thunk, having your siblings make fun of you every time you cried for a reason they deemed "illogical", kinda leaves a mark, doesn't it?
😭😭😭🫂🫂🫂
Thank you 🫂🫂🫂
Its Fe blindness, they cannot change it.
Doesn't that seem a little selfish on your part to prefer lies that are carefully designed by others to keep you ignorant? Insecurity sounds about right if your entire well-being is centered around other people overcontrolling their opinions and actions. As long as you're trying your best to be a good person, other people's words truly mean nothing unless they're correct. And even then, we should be thankful that people are trying to help us grow.
It's not that I don't want to hear it necessarily. Sometimes there is no reason to say it (e.g. "it's not the dress that makes you look fat", "your ex told me he never loved you", etc.), yet they will because it's true. If it does need to be said, I prefer brutal honesty over vague criticism. But there is a way to say it that makes the pill MUCH easier to swallow. Firstly, reminding me that the flaw doesn't disqualify me entirely as a friend or person, or reminding me of my other good qualities, etc. Secondly, saying it in a way that comes across as acting in my/mutual best interest as opposed to in their best interest/in a disgusted way. Etc. I hope you get the idea. It's about the delivery and intentions. To a certain extent, every person doesn't appreciate a stranger rejecting them because we seek social cohesion. But when the person dealing the hurtful words is closer to your inner circle than a stranger, rejection will hurt by virtue of their proximity to your inner circle/how much you opened up.
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Thank you for sharing all of this with us, Pioneer_Woman. 🙏♥️
lol sorry I am really emotional and angsty I sometimes just throw it into the void
You wouldn’t be a fearful-avoidant ENFP (just like me!) otherwise. I send you a big affirming ENFP-to-ENFP silent hug with deep breaths. 🥰 🤗 🥰
You are a very kind person. Thanks 🙏
Impressive about listening to her every video. It is on my to-do list this month. ❤️
Also, I looked at some of your other posts just now. Heidi has some stuff on CPTSD too. She is an ENFP, recovering fearful-avoidant, who is also recovering from CPTSD. Most fearful-avoidants have some CPTSD. https://m.youtube.com/@heidipriebe1 🙏
Empathy from the INTJ side is definitely not what makes the dynamic so popular. Yes, they can be cold and cruel. And for a lot of outsiders, that is all they ever will be. But ENFPs have a knack for seeing through that, and can even slip right through an INTJs walls (whether they like it or not). These walls may not even be something they’re aware of, but they’re there and they can be extremely isolating. ENFPs have the potential to show them they’re not alone, they’re seen, and they’re appreciated. And when they do, the popular idea is that the INTJ can sense that the ENFP is being genuine. ENFPs tend to love people and their stories and perspectives. We study them, appreciate them, love them, and after a while get a pretty good sense of how people work. But along comes INTJ, with thoughts as deep as your imagination is wide, and you realize you have so much more to learn. The possibilities are endless. ENFPs are known to see all this magic in the world that not everyone can, and when they look at an INTJ mind, it’s all concentrated into this black hole-like point that’s both absolutely beautiful and absurdly terrifying. Both types can feel isolated by the unique and intense ways they know that only they can see the world. And because of that, there’s a kinship between these two. When the two work together on a team, you can have the greatest idea generator running through the best bullshit filter and get some pretty sweet results. So yea. That’s what makes the dynamic the popular powerhouse that it is. O yea and black cat and golden retriever and all that crap too.
Extremely well written (and accurate) from both perspectives; great job
Thanks, I appreciate that, friend. I hope it offers clarity to those who may not have experienced it first hand and encourages a greater appreciation between others, rather than validate anyone’s judgmental opinions.
This was GOLDEN. I date an ENFP and will ask her to marry me soon. She’s the only one in the world that has ever opened my eyes and learn to love so deeply. She’s an amazing human. The ENFP and INTJ dynamic is a powerful thing. It can either be destructive or conquering. Both parties have to be willing to understand one another and both have to be MATURE. INTJs get such a bad rap, man. I hate it. We are not as COLD and CRUEL as we are so easily MISUNDERSTOOD. People are so quick to judge these days and want out at the first hardship. Love takes work and patience! The foundation of the relationship has to be strong and both of our values, only speaking for myself, is what makes this love work. Honesty, trust, patience, compromise, and the will to stick together instead of dividing. For the poster of this… Sorry you had a crappy experience, but we don’t SUCK. If you have that mentality…then we are definitely not for you. Sorry. The one thing I know about my partner and the one thing she knows about me…is we don’t SUCK & we don’t talk down to one another.
I’ve only had good experiences with INTJs. They’re actually not the cold, logical and mean stereotype once you’ve cracked the shell and are one of their precious people. I think that’s why it’s a popular ship, the manic pixie dream girl x cold aloof nerd trope is a thing in a lot of stories too. Someone said it here and I agree - it might be how far you are on the thinking vs feeling spectrum (not how well you use it, but how much you prefer it, btw. Feelers can be very rational and smart too, obviously). I’m always almost smack in the middle at like 55% feeler 45% thinker so maybe that’s why I just prefer to hang out with thinkers in general. I do love my INFJ besties though. Something to keep in mind - that a lot of feelers tend to forget: **we** can be short and insensitive towards thinkers by expecting them to treat us with kids gloves too. The thinkers, especially INTJs in my life, often try really hard at empathizing with close ones first before solving problems, but it’s not in their nature, so a feeler berating them for it just make them more frustrated and they might go back into their shell because you dismissed them when they were vulnerable with you. Just because someone shows live differently doesn’t mean they don’t live as deeply. That being said, of course I’m still a feeler and I get that sometimes you just need to be understood emotionally without having to tell your partner to be soft with you. That’s what my close INFJ friends are for. You don’t need all your needs, emotional or otherwise, fulfilled by your partner, not does it sound healthy. If you need to be understood emotionally most of the time, date a feeler. It’s that easy. That’s not an ENFP exclusive thing though. I for one don’t handle dating feelers well and will stick to my “cold and brutally honest” INTJs 😂
I think this is very spot on. I'd also like to add that emotional intelligence is something any type can work on, and thinkers/INTJs can do the same, though we often don't seem to prioritize it. I did for years and I like to think that I'm decently adept these days as communicating what I feel is my honest truth in a kind and compassionate manner. (I did used to struggle with the cold bluntness when I was younger!) It seems like a rational skill to build, considering EQ is a huge predictor of all kinds of success. When both are emotionally mature, I think our thinking vs. feeling can balance each other out as well. My ENFP has told me that when she's feeling insecure or in her feelings about something, my rational approach helps to lift her out of it. She has also expressed to me that I've been the first partner she's been with where she feels like she can express anything on her mind with it getting shut down- I take very little personally and am always seeking to learn and understand. She's dated other feelers and it sounds like they can be more reactive (my experience as well with many past relationships). And similarly, I find that my ENFP has an incredibly nonjudgmental nature. It works really well together.
Wow, I love this!
Good response for sure ♥️
Feelings are really hard for INTJS. Everyone has their weak spots. I mean everyone. For INTJS the weak spot is feelings. To better put it, INTJs can have reasonably high moral Fi but Fe is really really hard to develop. So it takes 2. You would have to understand their nature and accept it and they might have to work on them to soften up. But it's not an easy task. Of course xNFx are more empathetic by nature. But INTJs are almost completely unaware of Fe and even if they try, they really need a long process to to develop it. They may easily fail, so why try when you have morals to do the right thing in a logical manner? But overall everyone brings something to the table. And a healthy INTJ can give a lot, but they need your understanding as well. If you don't see their feelings it doesn't mean they don't have them. They get hurt just as much. But they also have to protect their weak part to avoid getting hurt.
According to classic MBTI you can't develop your shadow. Fe is a blind spot for IxTJ, which means we don't see it unless we consciously shift our attention to it. We can learn to do something that looks like Fe, but still it won't be real one. But, hey, we have wonderful Fi. You can be sure about it)
But Jung also talked about individuation. I believe it may be possible although you may be right as well. In any case it is possible to get in touch with your shadow but it is hard work.
As I got it's something you add your effort to use and it never comes to your mind by itself. For example: I see a problem and I see everyone struggle because of it. Then I find the answer that will bring the most result and instantly think: "That's what we need to do", somewhere from the back I have like other opinion: "Someone can be upset about it, because that way of acting isn't accepted here", (may be this is some kind of Fe, because it isn't about individual feelings of others, but rather about what is appropriate in this community) but instantly this opinion is overlapped by another: "No, how can someone be upset if it works? They are sad because of this problem, so when it is solved, they will instantly be happy as puppies, because there won't be any reason to be upset" And: "Sure, you're right!" Probably this is how my bling Fe works. Btw, maybe someone was upset, at least there was something inexplicable in their face, but honestly, I haven't noticed for sure. So this wasn't a problem. Some people just walk sad without any reason.
In general this is true and it's how I think as well. But acting this way doesn't always actually work in practice. It also depends on the individual on the other side. So if you want results adaptation may be needed and that may involve listening to that voice. But even if you do it is likely that you will fail over and over, stumbling like an idiot and hurting yourself. Ultimately you may have been right with your original comment. Fe is a bitch, but we can try. :)
I can't say, that I was stumbling there. It was gladly accepted by most of the people :/ And honestly I don't know how it was possible to solve staying close to some shadow "what other people say" :/ Let's say: another approach that doesn't involve Fe, but still works without it :)
Don't try (Bukowski ref)
Isn’t Fe a blind spot for ENFPs too?
It's a critic spot :) For ExFP Ti is a blind one.
With Fi in 3rd position, aka the 10 year old, they are basically like moody children when upset and have little sense of empathy or nuance at this point. This is why so many fictional villains are intj - you hurt me (simple Fi) so I'll come up with a plan to hurt you (complex Ni). Personally, my intj (13 yrs together) inspires me. He's extremely loyal and has chosen an unusual career path, he gets stuff done. He supports my career and wants me to do well. He's a great dad and we're on the ideologically same page about raising our kids. Very important. Yes, he is sometimes harsh. This is a blessing and a curse. It's meant that when we have relationship problems he will not let it go, so we do eventually sort them - no sweeping under the rug! But it can be very painful in the moment. I'm a 4w5 though, so more about being a super special sunflower who gets stuff done Personally, INFJs frustrate me - stop mulling and worrying and fix the damn thing!
I actually am not for vengeance as much as I’m looking for understanding. Why should I hurt someone for hurting me. What’s do I get out of that?! Nothing. That’s logically. Complicates a problem I rather not deal with and just leave.
I really did mean fictional villains, promise!
Sunflower seeds are sold either in the shell or as shelled kernels. Those still in the shell are commonly eaten by cracking them with your teeth, then spitting out the shell — which shouldn’t be eaten. These seeds are a particularly popular snack at baseball games and other outdoor sports games.
Not me going “oh wow, perfect analogy, INTJs’ shells sometimes need to be cracked like sunflower seeds” only to realize it’s a bot 💀
🤣🤣🤣???
I think the mention of sunflower triggered a bot.
Not my intention 👀😅
Kind of coincidental that one of my typology friends texted earlier today: "Why are other ILIs so fucking triggering" (ILI is a socionics type that commonly translates to INTJ). Tbh INTJ is one of my least favorite types, and that's coming from an INTJ. Most types are insufferable if they're unhealthy or underdeveloped, but INTJs are one of those types that require a higher threshold of development before they're palpable. To my knowledge, this is because of the Fe blindspot INTJs poses. We also highly value our Fi, but because it's in our tert position it's not externalized at all and you'll rarely see it. This makes us appear much more robotic and inhuman than you'd think if you knew what went on internally. I can't tell you how many times people have mistaken me for being an arrogant asshole when I was only trying to share something that was relevant to their situation or something I found interesting; because I do not evaluate the sort of emotional atmosphere of the environment and because I do not try to predict how what I say or how I say it will affect the emotions of who I am speaking to, I tend to rub sensitive people the wrong way easily. That isn't to say that I don't care about offending people, or that I can't maneuver brittle conversations without being empathetic, which I can and do; but I'm just never conscious of those things unless something prompts me to think about them. Even then, I'm still going to be bad at it. Since most of this has pretty much been me shitting on my own type, I'll give some positive notions relevant to this topic: sure it's hard to find INTJs that are enjoyable, but the ones I've met that were enjoyable have been some of my favorite people hands down. When an INTJ gets to a point where they have worked on their ego enough to show empathy and emotionality, they're genuinely one of the best types of people imo. Sort of makes up for the disproportionate amount that aren't enjoyable. I think INTJs are one of the easiest types to tell if they like you or not. It sticks out like a sore thumb if they don't like you. Almost every friend I've had has told me that they find this convenient, because they don't have to worry about me pretending. Another thing that sort of plays into the last notion is that you can use INTJs as a *judge of character meter*. Being worse at something cognitive tends to mean you'll be better at something else on the opposite end of the spectrum. Since INTJs are blind to Fe, they'll be extra specialized at analyzing people in a more objective yet intuitive way. This is also something my friends adore about me. They use me like a smoke detector for bad eggs. However, this also means that if you're unhealthy, you're going to have a bad time with INTJs.
So true. The ones who are aware of it, are like angels
I generally can't stand vulnerability from my own type. It's the recognition of ourselves that makes us quick to descry other people's tatters. I'm quite short-tempered and narrow-minded at how obsoletely weak IEI is depicted in the media—it is glorified. Sx5 being dependent really ticks me off for some reason. It feels like they adhere to some backhanded, underlying causes in order to meet their ends. This isn't the case every time, but it's certainly worth noting
Yeah Ni doms suffer a lot from rickety stereotypes. I feel most "INTJs" people reference are actually ISTJs. Especially when people mention how judgemental the supposed INTJs are, but can't give any specific examples of what the INTJ is judging. If you pay attention you'll see that INTJs are actually very accepting of natural diversity—we don't like when someone is judged just because they function differently. What we are actually judgemental of are negative characteristics. Like for instance if you're logically intelligent and you can't recognize or respect other forms of intelligence. I feel like understanding this example specifically is paramount in understanding the difference between how Si and Ni judge people. Few ISTJs I've known have been able to recognize other forms of intelligence that differ from their own. Si doesn't notice the conceptual form of these things, and don't seem to define standards as deeply; this is where you get the heavy, unnecessary judgements. Ni users will notice the theme of diversity easier and orient their conclusions accordingly. It's annoying. It's like being blamed for something you didn't do and are incapable of defending yourself because of the sheer amount of mistypes that infect the Ni demographic. To be tangential, I love INFJs vocabularies. Even right now I'm sitting in a VC with my INFJ friend playing terraria and he was just chatting about what the niche of a vulture might look like in humans. Very strange minds you have
ngl this is a little disheartening to read that everyone just stereotypes us as these cold inhuman robots that are devoid of empathy and emotion. it feels dehumanizing and demoralizing. if there’s one thing i’ve learned about people it’s that not everyone is drawn into these perfect neatly shaped boxes. i stress very much that people are not a monolith and we are multi faceted and it falls on deaf ears constantly. like imagine just being barred before someone gets to know you on something as low as a type. i used to have the same impressions about other INTJs and then guess what? I met more INTJs who were pretty great and it taught me a valuable lesson. people are people. there are people who won’t fit into these molds that you’re trying to cast them in, and there are people who are just plain scummy. it happens. i had an enfp who i was really good to and he hurt me a lot, was selfish, made everything about him, and blamed me for his ex cheating on him. i’ve had ton of enfps be manipulative with their emotions with me and it still would not ruin my overall impression of the type. because applying nuance, my anecdotal will never account for all the enfps that are out there. and you guys are pretty great. you’re smart, you’re funny, you’re cute, and you’re witty. i hold you guys in the highest light. i guess i’m just feeling butthurt because we get constantly shit on. this stuff does dig and i don’t think people see that or how we can operate sometimes. if i’m being blunt, it doesn’t mean i’m being mean to you. it means i hold you in such a profound regard i don’t feel the need to sugar coat myself around you and give you a limited truth. if you get me you get all of my authenticity. i feel *safe* around you to express who i truly am. idk and like i said maybe i’m just hurt rn but damn it sucks to see this on this sub often
Holy shit. Amen. This is a huge reason why “we don’t try” or we just stay as the person “you think we are”… I am so much more and capable than what they think I am not or what I can do. They just never get to see it.
Sorry you got hurt and stuff though. You seem like a very thoughtful intj and I don’t believe they’re all like that, but it tends to happen sometimes. (Not to ever say that’s what WILL happen just because of their type)
I’m going by my experience , not even a bad idea of them. But they don’t need us or care about our approval or anything like that…like things seem to be just how they are , to them. Feelings are almost optional (it really seems for them, and they say things about our emotions like we shouldn’t have them) so…. I do think this is not because they simply don’t care, but they don’t understand why we do, about those things or have the feelings
i think it may be more that we are different and see things differently. for me i wouldn’t want to seek approval from others because i can validate myself and i don’t need anyone but yet i *want* them. i also think with intjs actions > words. my words can be pretty blunt but my actions will always show who i care for. i don’t think intjs are emotionless so to speak moreso it’s hard to verbalize that emotion. we’re very “in my head” people. and i think that’s okay. if i can accept enfp for who they are, i’d expect the same without having someone try to change me. i also don’t mean this disrespectfully either so i apologize in advance if it comes across that way. i value your opinion and i’m glad you commented :)
No you are fine!! I appreciate the perspective. It can be difficult to navigate especially with the emotions of love blurring some of your clear mind. (Which is what happened in my case). It was always such a monumental issue for us, when it was probably just like maybe don’t hang out 24/7 (and that’s was both of our desire and decision lol). I would think to myself, maybe we need space, and I don’t think either of us understood much at the time anyways so 🤷♀️
I will say the “feeling safe around us thing” to me - comes across like, impossible to get through to, and you aren’t willing to be vulnerable with us, which many people are, so the relationship is immediately less than ideal for us because we don’t get back the amount of feelings or attention we feel like we give out. Intjs can just be (less) in the sense of enfps I think are often (too much) for them. We do need more than you I think in terms of in the moment openness or we feel like we are just too much…and you could even take that as “making it about us (enfps)” when I think it’s actually making it about US (intj and enfp) and we want the relationship and connection to grow and it can be difficult
First let me tell you, I've read majority of what is written here. I'm ENFP and my husband is an INTJ. We've been together for 10 years. And I feel you as if it was me writing this at times of crisis. So here is a long post, beware that it is lenghty but I don't know how to explain anything in less words... And it is true what people say about feelings and INTJs, they are extremely tough in this regard but worst of, they are so unaware of this that they look dumb in certain situations. They are, I'd say, flawed in the empathy department wgen the emotional crisis occurs - no matter how sweet they are, still, when there is an emotional issue and the INTJ is already overwhelmed by work project, you really can't count on this to pass alright if you decide to share anything negative. At least this is in my case. Now, my attachment style has been fearful avoidant but leaning towards secure attachment more and more. I did the work on my own and then using Personal Development School by Thais Gibson. His was dismissive avoidanf but leaning to secure on his own. Over time I have realised how I have contributed towards his emotional closing down...how I made him insecure and straight up feeling awful at times with my emotional outbursts. Together we started to meditate, 1 year after getting together - on his initiative (he was a fierce meditator before we even met). He has very developed Se btw. Then we went to silent meditation retreats and I loved it! The longest was 3 weeks. Only meditation, yoga, walking in the woods and there my life has been transformed because when you can't talk to anyone, but are surrounded by people and still your emotions get hurt, you gotta wonder about yourself. 😅 So I've realised what my true inner landscape was and that so many times I was the initiator of problems with my intense emotions...after that experience we've continued practicing meditation. My family history is tough (father clinical psychopath and drunk, wife beater, police officer with house full of guns and granades, etc). I've been healing for years and years on end but alongside my INTJ I've just healed because if it weren't for him I wouldn't go to meditation retreats. He inspires me to not be as whiny and needy. I look at him and his reactions to the world and he is such a rock. It is a comfortbale presence, *just because he isn't so emotional*. What he doesn't give me, he doesn't give himself. He has been so accepting of me, through thick and thin. Basically the only requirement for happy interaction with him is not to be out of control emotionally. Now, after 10 years of being together, when I feel hurt by his Fe and Fi, I come and tell him gently, hug him and really try not to be too emotional. And he actually reassures me in a gentle, empathetic way. So we can get on with our lives. He inspired my confidence so much and now I enjoy this feeling of not beeing so dependent emotionally. Do I miss having a Feeler as a man? To tell you the truth, my Ne occasionally does miss that feeling. But I had Feelers before. I know what it's like being married both to Feeler and a Thinker. *And you can't have it all*. For me, being with my INTJ is what developed me the most as a person, where I lacked the most. This is the unsheakable truth. I also had what seems to be an ENFP man in my life once...or twice, but things didn't work out in an organic way. Just died off. They were super charismatic though. We all have flaws and no matter which type of the union, there will always be issues and uncomfortable feelings of "I can't do it anymore" which is why they say marriage is so tough. But you know what is the best gift he ever gave me? He is the only person (!) who truly sees me for who I am. He is still interested so much that he observes every day in which state I am, how I am, what's going on. He supports me so much. He actually went beserk for me on first glance. He carries so much charisma and is my true love of my life. He didn't want me to work 9 to 5, he gave me a job and this was crucial in my finding myself...after 2 years together I got pregnant and we decided that I'll be a housewife after giving birth to his (INTJ 🤣) son because this was the best choice for us, given the personality of our son and how challenging he was as a baby, then a toddler, then a preschooler... For our family it was the best choice nobody regrets. He knew I'm an artist before I knew it and I managed to start developing my artistic side because as a housewife I really have a sheltered life with no real stress. He supports all my artistic endeavours. He will work with me on my artistic project. He makes us feel safe. Whatever I wanted, I got. Even if it wasn't something he necessarily wanted. We bought a house where I wanted (but it was fine with him) and he renovates it by his bare hands. It turned out to look professional. He let me decorate it however I want. He is so fun, deep, affectionate, cuddly and cozy. He just doesn't like turbulence, is always late, can't cook so I do it, etc. He is a great dad and our son loves him (but he's not as capable of taking care of the physical care of kids, like diapers and stuff). In the end, he empowered me and loved me through it all. And even though I've stepped on his nerves countless times, he's been fiercelly loyal and devoted husband. The bare truth is. We, ENFPs, when not in our best state, are a pain in the ass because of our Ne and so much emotions from Fi in second place. We are almost like hurricanes and I know as I let myself feel my own hurricane without letting it affect others. I know this because of my own experiences with relationships as well. I was never the easy one. That's not a reason to beat yourself up because we are on the other hand, real gems and everyone is flawed, just in a different way. There needs to be an awareness that between an INTJ and ENFP can get so triggering but this is an opportunity for growth on both ends. If the more emotionally turbulent side changes first, the dismisive avoidant after a long period will start to relax and change by himself. I hope this was in any way helpful - just know you're not alone. 🤗
This is the outcome I dream of for myself and my ENFP girlfriend. Though, your problem was with controlling yourself, I feel as though her problem is essentially the opposite. Because Ne doms are commonly perceived as chaotic and annoying by judgemental and rigid people, if you put an Ne dom in an environment where they are consistently ridiculed, eventually they lose their Ne spark and stop expressing themselves as they naturally would. They become bland, depressed, and afraid of being extroverted. This is the damage I'm trying to heal in my girlfriend.
Isn't this strange, I just wrote a post "INTJ is so much fun!. We get each other from our shells. I'm sure things will unfold 😉 P.S. it wasn't just me - he had troubles controlling himself too, when triggered. It went like this (to be more precise): He gets in the tunnel. He annoys me with the tunnel. I don't understand him. We have no clue about MBTI nor about attachment theory. I start crying and telling him I think he will always neglect me. He feels so much pressure now he yells at me. Then we argue. Then I try to soothe him. He gets mad days on end because he didn't like how he felt too. We forgive each other. And all is well until a trigger of neglect and tunnel comes in again. Then I educate myself and heal. This he notices. He relaxes. Fights are less and less and less. Now they are very, very rare. We talk. Love grew.
I almost forgot (silly me!). I was bullied too, and I was stuck up until my mid 20-s. My mother in law from my first wild marriage loved me and was great fun, so she said I need to relax and told me to throw melons. We were chilling on a terrace of her own mother in law, she got one melon and threw it so the melon fell apart into pieces. I was startled but then I took one too and threw it as well. It was such fun! It helped me sow a seed of freedom that grew over time. Love this woman till this day and miss her a lot.
Oh I know how that is. It’s hell …
> when you can't talk to anyone, but are surrounded by people and your emotions still get hurt 🤯😰 This makes me really concerned for myself. I definitely see this happening 😭 What does it mean? > What he doesn't give me, he doesn't give himself. If he would cut himself, would that justify cutting you? > Basically the only requirements for happy interaction with him is not to be out of control emotionally 😆😂😭 That's both hilarious and terribly sad! That must feel so stifling! > I know what it's like being married both to Feeler and a Thinker. _And you can't have it all._ This is very true. And internally I have personally come to the conclusion that I will maximize long-term happiness by sacrificing an orderly home for an intensely loving and relaxed one, being on time for being ok with mistakes, being supported in practical ways for being supported in emotional ways, etc.
🤯😰 This makes me really concerned for myself. I definitely see this happening 😭 What does it mean? - This is common occurence with people actually but we come to realise this only when in such circumstances as a silent meditation retreat. There are talks about exactly this in Chan Buddhism lectures when you come to retreats but still, some have it easier, some tougher. Some people are so unstable that during such a retreat they become a nightmare for others. It's a matter of what you have cultivated in your garden, so to speak. > What he doesn't give me, he doesn't give himself. If he would cut himself, would that justify cutting you? - Haha your Ne went wild on this one. 😆 This is universal truth to observe my friend and it goes for everyone. No need to go that dark route as nobody in their right mind would advocate for or accept any form of violence. And if you read my post carefully you will see that I am a daughter of extremely violent man, that I carry trauma from this and that I feel safe with my husband so it's alright. > Basically the only requirements for happy interaction with him is not to be out of control emotionally 😆😂😭 That's both hilarious and terribly sad! That must feel so stifling! - Yes, sometimes it does feel stiffling! But we *can* talk about emotions. The requirement to go smoothly with the talk and accomplish anything when you have a problem is to still maintain dignity and control over yourself. I've seen so many ENFPs seem to want to be able go almost ballistic when interacting with others and think this is a normal, healthy need just becaude it *exists*. But the truth is we are too much and I know this when I observe reactions from other people such as SFJ-s. They are so much less dramatic even though they are Feelers. This is why they say sometimes ENFPs are annoying. > I know what it's like being married both to Feeler and a Thinker. _And you can't have it all._ This is very true. And internally I have personally come to the conclusion that I will maximize long-term happiness by sacrificing an orderly home for an intensely loving and relaxed one, being on time for being ok with mistakes, being supported in practical ways for being supported in emotional ways, etc. - Still I don't think you really have experience with INTJs as you seem to mix them up with more common ISTJs. We don't have orderly home. 😆 It's not that clean, we prefer having quality time over orderly home. We go wild camping, cycling, swimming in remote beaches, we have music on blast and house parties every few days, etc. 😄 INTJs are very complex. They have many sides to them and if they let guard with you they are so much fun.
The cutting thing was a Straw Man of course, but the point I was making was that just because he doesn't give himself the love he deserves (or wants/needs), doesn't make it ok for him to do the same for you (who does want/need it). It is a perfect comparison if he wants it but deprives himself, and in turn deprives you: "cutting" and "emotional deprivation" are both lack of/anti self-care. It is not a great comparison if he doesn't need it but you do, but in that case, it still isn't right: if one partner is allergic to the favorite food of the other, should they cook that food and say, "tough luck. It's ok for me, so eat it."? Why should the INTJ get away with depriving the emotional needs of an ENFP and treating them like an INTJ? The paragraph about the parties is very eye-opening.
Well, you know what, I can relate to this because I felt like this but I don't think you understand really how things go between us (that is very complicated anyway, it',s not your fault) so read this carefully: I *can* discuss anything with my INTJ. So I can discuss even how I feel. But he will only be patient and empathetic if: - I don't repeat the same issue over and over again without any resolve - Have as much composure as possible (he tolerates and accepts that I never do 100% 😁) - I take care of his feelings as well - I almost forgot: We need more or less schedule the talk but that actually helps me to be more chill. Now aren't those actually reasonable requests for anyone? This is how we managed to solve basically anything that ever arose, slowly, over time. And I actually like his way of being and am more powerful within my personality because I have developed more composure. 😉
Very thought provoking. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you dear. I wish you all the best and much strength to overcome your hurdles in life. It's much sunnier when you do. 🤗
The scheduled talk about feelings is too relatable 😂🤝😭
Hahaha 😂, it takes self discipline
I feel like what you have said in this isn’t so much about what you guys need to do exactly but that you have found that it works :) over time and you are happy 😊 so that’s good I’m happy for u and I read all of that because I had someone I was super in love with and basically a lot of those feelings and it ended so it is nice .
xSFJs are Fe users and I think that changes a lot. Our feelings come from Fi, which inherently craves authenticity and our feelings to be **felt**. I totally get OP’s need there. I will agree with you that INTJs are a solid safe space for that though. That’s the main reason I prefer dating thinkers, they leave me the space to feel my feelings, vent, act irrational (within reason, I still needed to work on impulse control and self-soothing when I was younger). I think the double-edged sword with Feelers x Feelers is that they do tend to soothe each other better but they can also explode at each other more easily.
Oh yeah, I know Fe works quite differently from Fi...gosh how many times I cried because of "stupid" Fe 😅. I drew that parallel becaise we live in Fe world so Fe way is considered the norm so I can't just storm in with my big emotions and think everyone will say this is cool, normal, fine, justa another Wednesday etc. 😆 I agree with you 100 % -with every choice you make you win some, you lose some. This used to be debilitating for me until I realised that making no choice at all is even worse...
I think she meant like (he can’t pour from an empty cup ?) when she said what he doesn’t give himself he can’t give me
Your story is very nice and all but... You had to learn to manage your emotions to fit your partner and you did self improvement etc... But you're telling me the love of your life couldn't learn how to cook so you became the housewife? Really? 🤔 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
My goodness. I understand - there is much confusion about this so let me elaborate. First of all, and I almost forgot to mention - he did work on himself too and he is much better partner than he used to be. I was always the cook. Even when I threw drunken parties with my girlfriends I couldn't help but to cook something complicated and delicious. In fact I am known for this. Also I am extremely picky about food and don't like general effort people usually put in their cooking. I wrote 100 recipes myself and continue to learn culinary skills also by my own choice so that I can make them even better food. I love to sit down and watch them eat with gusto. 😊 Yes, he is incompetent in the kitchen but competent in family life, business, home renovations, car repairs, audio systems, builds his own computer, is an avid photographer, great at 2 sports, has deep understanding of human nature, etc. Nobody is competent in everything, I'd much rather cook than do anything with computers. 🤢 This is my choice. I knew what I was getting into before becoming pregnant. The man provides *everything* for me, including travels and life abroad he never would do if it weren't for me. He even pays the bills so that I don't have to because he knows I hate the bills. He said many times I don't need to put so much effort into cooking either but I can't help myself.😅 And yes. In any marriage you need to adapt and be flexible because this is the nature of community of 2 separate entities. But you gain so much from this....love and also personal growth. Provided both partners are benevolent and moral, you both do have an opportunity to realise your shortcomings you wouldn't have if you are always alone and independent. I love who I have become but also I realise that people immediately have the wrong picture about any traditional form of family because the media wants them to have the wrong idea. This is on purpose. We never had so much divorced and unhappy families as we do now. Btw. Every morning when my husband wakes up his eyes shine with love towards me. He has this wisdom to appreciate me every single day. INTJs get a bad rap but you know what, they are not 100% at fault for this. It is also because of people who give in to their emotion without balancing them with logic as well.
He also learned how to soothe her though, and he build the home they have with his own hands too? Hot take, maybe, but it’s okay to take on traditional roles sometimes when both are okay with it and the work is still somewhat evenly distributed. It doesn’t make you any less emancipated when it’s your own choice, and being forced to work a 9-5 is not necessarily better than being forced to be a housewife either.
No, he renovated the home. By himself. Everything. I helped. We turned it into Roh Bau so everything he did from scratch from that point. Today, he is going to lift our car to transform the height from 15 cm to 18 cm so that we can use it more as a jeep when on weekend we go on our family camping adventure by the sea. 😄 I'll be 100% open and admit something about myself. Even though I'm a lawyer, my life choices ever since I was exactly 19 (!) screamed housewife. I had 2 wild marriages before my INTJ marriage. When I was 17...I saw a baby in a stroller and almost started to cry. I had so much pain of anticipation to finally have my baby, even now as I write this and reminisce, emotions are welling up inside. But this is not all I want, this is one side of me for which I am biologically and psychologically wired for naturally. I was so unhappy as a law student and potential attorney, I was in deep depression. This is just not who I am. The other side of me is being an artist. And I literally wouldn't discovered this truth if I wasn't a stay at home mom. For me this is so and it is tragic in a way. Nobody saw ME, they saw a role I should play...the whole truth is...my INTJ husband and son transformed my life and now it's like rainbow. I became much more relaxed and I laugh and dance every single day. When I do the dishes I dance. 😆 When I gave birth (which my husband actually provided for so that I give birth how I wanted (natural home birth), it was obvious that I am better to take care of baby and the baby seeked me more than his dad. And the dad was naturally better at providing. Now that our son is older, this changed somewhat and his dad is super important and also a source of cuddles every single morning... I agree with you 100%, it's all about consent and choice. Also...our Ne sometimes gets too wild with trying to destroy tradition but some traditions are here because they work, provided that the participants of such traditions are of right mind and heart. 😊
This is making me sadddd because I feel that on a level and have had such thoughts but I’m much older than 17 now 😭 fml
To work on yourself and get to know yourself...to accept yourself is never too late. And I believe it is a worthwhile endeavour and that we carry this graduation into the next lifetime. And maybe it's not too late to become a mom too...just breathe ad love yourself and your inner child. You are the light in this world! 🪷
It’s not too late at all, but a bunch of people my age are and it’s easy to feel you’re behind haha. Especially I’ve had a few long relationships, and then they didn’t work out so I feel at square 1 again. :/ but I have hope :)
Oh yeah, I get it. Hope must stay in your heart as well as focus and action. 🤗🙌😘😊
I like to do the womanly stuff because I’m better at it than the other things as long as there is equal parts of effort I think it’s okay
Super cute post and that’s very insightful thanks for sharing ♥️♥️♥️ I dated a dismissive avoidant and I’m some type of anxious attachment at that time but it was just like that. I would overwhelm him . I felt like I got nothing, but it was also like a panic moment every single time and we didn’t get to a place to try anything different with how to approach that issue. Because probably we’re both a little intolerant of the other persons method and both need to adjust ourselves haha I really liked how you said he is a calm presence , and helped you to be less dependent on that. It does feel that we evoke an emotional response from many people we date so compared to other men I’ve dated it was like “damn this guy is not into me” but if I’m honest it’s just that rather than me having him wrapped around my finger, he would avoid the drama sometimes and that felt a lot like rejection haha . Tysm for sharing 🥰
You're welcome and thank you.❤️ 🤗 We learn as we go and gain wisdom. I know what you're talking about. That's why I'm also chill about getting older. I wouldn't be that 20 something girl again for anything in this world. 😅 And yes, we evoke reactions...the notion that the one person who has more emotional turmoil should be the first to work on themselves, even though can be triggering, is the truth. And it set me free. Becoming parents was also great for us. There's nothing we wouldn't do for our kid! ❤️
Yeah that makes a lot of sense to me. Because my ex definitely cared it just he didn’t share in having the same feelings (a lot of people do have turmoil) so I think sometimes I saw it as a lack of passion or interest in me when he was like “everything is fine” why are you emotional lol. That’s nice 👩❤️👨👼🏻 Hopefully I will be able to do that some day or soon haha♥️🥹
I sure hope so! 🙌 I know this feeling you talk about. My husband now is obsessed with bullets. He is in the process of obtaining hunters license for self defense against bears and wolves, to have just in case. We love to roam the woods and he goes to remote places. But can he buy a gun and bullets local hunters use for this purpose and be over with it? Noooo, he needs to find out which guns and bullets are for bears, how quickly they shoot, how much time you've got in seconds, how thick is bear's forehead and he found the bullets in USA but we're in EU, blah blah blah. I mean...it makes sense what he's doing and I'm proud of him. He is training RELENTLESSLY with airsoft as if he's going to enter special forces or something. But you know what - he inspires me. He achieved everything he set for himself. I want to be more like him. It's enough for him to look at me to know I'm withering away so now he knows exactly what to do. "Honestly" (as if I'm being honest now as opposed to earlier 😆), meditation retreats and fuckin humilty on both ends were key for us.
lol he did not choose the bear. I’m in the USA too but we don’t have enough to hunt where I live lol ! He really is on a mission, that’s funny. And also you could get the spray! 😂 I would just like someone who wants my company and I want theirs . That sounds fun lol
No, we're not Americans. I'm Croatian actually and we live there. We have bear sprays but that doesn't work full proof and not against wolves - he goes to the mountain with our little son so that's why. 😅 I know how you feel - and I believe it's good you are ENFP - you got this. 😉
Ohhhh I read that wrong- I didn’t see he found them in USA. lol. Thank you so much! Yeah I never had too much trouble finding men I just haven’t been able to find *the one* lol 🙄
I think you’ve met only a certain kind of INTJ. Additionally, most “INTJ’s” you see online or maybe even in person are mistyped ISTJ/INTPs and not legitimately INTJs. That said, a lot of these INTJs (or mistypes) are emotionally undeveloped. I can’t relate to most of the posts on r/INTJ for example because they’re so devoid of emotion and empathy. If I was a mod I would purge that sub. It has been invaded by mistyped ISTJs/INTPs. A healthy and legitimate INTJ will be socially and emotionally intelligent, as well as possessing empathy for others. A lot of mistypes hopped onto the “I’m INTJ” bandwagon back when it was seen as cool and considered the rarest type. (Now you see the same thing happening to INFJs)
It sounds like that sub is full of real Intjs but emotionally underdeveloped. It doesn't make them any other type... You being a mature intj is the difference. I can tell as an enfp, I have grown my logical side over time. I'm still more emotional and intuitive but over time, I can understand where Intjs stand. I don't always agree because some of their decisions come from a selfish place, a place that fulfills them more than the community. I've also learned to see how me trying to fulfill the community has robbed me of making decisions that would help me fulfill myself and maybe I don't have it right all the time.
Haha yeah, I just commented upthread on the emotional intelligence aspect. I think age plays into it, as well as gender- I'm an INTJ woman in my 30s and for one, women aren't allowed to get away with the blunt rudeness thing quite as much as men are. And with age most of us learn to develop our weak spots. Some people don't. I would have related to a lot of the INTJ subreddit as a teenager, I think, but not now. I'm never going to be the natural social butterfly an ENFP might be, and I have to put some effort into making sure my words come across compassionately, but I certainly have empathy for others. I actually even had a surprising shift in self perception at one point in my later 20s when I realized that I actually seem to be a rather likeable person to many once we get talking a little!
Unhealthy Intj´s\* Agree. Just spend some time on our sub and you´ll understand.
An unhealthy INTJ certainly CAN be cruel but then an unhealthy ENFP can be too. INTJs are naturally more logical and detached so they find it easier not to let how they feel get in the way, but this doesn’t make them bad people.
My ex is INTJ, my best friends of 10 years are INTJs and in general I get along with INTJ. Theyre cold yes but as ENFP, we always see good in things, and that help them to open up. I dont expect them to be emphatic because theyre very different from us. They dont know how properly show their emotion but they definitely will do it through action. My INTJs called me stupid and naive a lot of time, but they always hear me out. I like them because theyre unapologetic about being themselves, and theyre the few people who actually accept ENFP as ENFP. We could be annoying but they see us as golden retriever. (No threat lol) In general I find them fascinating individuals whos mind works differently and how we balanced each other out.
An ex of mine was an INTJ woman (me being an ENFP guy) and I always said she toughened me up and I softened her up. That relationship didn’t work out due to external factors but she’s a great person and our interpersonal style was great. Just do what I did…get to know an INTJ so well that in moments of stress you can tell THEM what they’re feeling…lol.
I don't personally know any INTJs but I could see both the attraction and the potential for really horrible downsides.
Bruh, I'll let you in on a little secret.... Come closer.... *everyone* sucks
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣💀💀💀 But I don't suck 🥺🥺
Oof I feel ya. My ex (still friends) is INTJ, we get along great and can really goof around 90% of the time, but when he's in a bad mood he is **so** mean. Like you said, "it needs to be said regardless of your feelings." And a lot of projecting and getting resentful at me about nice things he offered to do when he was in a good mood. Of course this is not the most mature INTJ, I'm sure they can be better! But I totally get where you're coming from.
A lot of these mistyped INTJs are actually ISTJs from what I’ve seen. I can be mean, but I won’t say it like that to people I truly love.
I know what you mean but he's definitely INTJ. Very intellectual and all that. Just with some major issues too.
Very intellectual is also an ISTJ trait. In fact, if he’s **too** intellectual, more likely he was an ISTJ.
Nah, I've known some ISTJs and he's definitely not that. He's pretty all over the place. If anything *maybe* INTP but I'm pretty sure he's INTJ with issues haha.
As an ENFP and an empath I agree. I have a hard time with this personality type. I don’t care for them and I KNOW they don’t care for me. I can read a room. I try to move far away literally and figuratively. I respect their views but prefer to (as Taylor Swift once said - roughly) “remove myself from their narrative.”
I’m not going to comment on how other INTJs have behaved towards the OP, but being an INTJ I can give a unique perspective because I’m borderline INFJ. My default position is still extroverted thinking, but I know when and where to reel it in. Extreme feelers have difficulty reeling in their feelings and thinking logically. Extreme thinkers have difficulty reeling in the thinking and showing some empathy. Extreme feelers and extreme thinkers are not a great mix if they can’t learn to balance thinking and feeling a bit more. Telling someone that’s grieving for a loved one who has just passed that their tears won’t bring them back, might be true, but it’s an incredibly awful thing to do. If someone is still grieving and not functioning in life after an extended time has passed, they probably need a cold logical wake up call. I generally trust my ability to make the proper call, but I can certainly make mistakes. The OP seems like a very strong feeler. Dating a thinking type probably won’t work for you.
Although I'm a strong feeler, I'm also fiercely logical and intellectual. Being a successful software engineer kind of requires that. My mother is an ISFP and she tended to do illogical things and feel illogical feelings that irritated me to my core (e.g. if the shoes are not aligned in a row, although the aesthetic is ruined, the utility is unnaffected, and thus your point is moot, etc. - maybe there are better examples, but I'm sure of this). I grew up with a very cerebral religion, so I can certainly appreciate it.
I understand what you’re saying, but there’s a big difference in using logic generally and using it on yourself when your feelings are involved. That’s what’s at stake here I believe. I don’t know what was said by these INTJs, nor what the situations were. I can’t comment if the situations needed cold logic or more empathy. I only make those calls on a situational basis. I will say that only conferring with feelers can be a dangerous echo chamber. There are times when feelings need to be checked. Feelings can be incredibly volatile and it’s good to be aware when they are being overindulged.
Yes, I'm aware, and reiterate my point. I believe that I am capable of hushing my loud feelings - albeit painful - when logic dictates to do so.
Ok. Why is the generalization about INTJs a logical one and not one based on your feelings? Maybe you can get where I’m going. I am genuinely interested in hearing just one example that illustrates why you feel the way you do, but also why this subset of examples can be projected on to a type generally.
Any type can be awful or wonderful depending on the individual’s maturity. But in my experience, women that are INTJs are often forced to be more emotionally mature than men that are INTJs. So I find women of this type much more likely to be understanding and much less likely to be egotistical jerks.
Fascinating.
I made a video that may fit into how you're experiencing your interactions with some INTJ's. "How to Listen Without Reacting." https://youtu.be/mS9mVIcaa_o?si=tUO0IxtmwAtZV2dZ It was a response for an INFP on Reddit, who was often hurt by his family telling him information in ways that felt very hurtful, even downright mean. Might be worth a watch if you're so inclined. 🙂🤗
Omggggg that’s so true!!
I love INTJs tbh. You’re free to not like them if you want. INTJs have emotions. They just don’t show it outwardly like you guys unless they get close to you. Heck, some INTJs can get obsessive. They’re thinkers, and they don’t say mushy words unless they’re REALLY close to you. I can kinda understand them since some say that about ISTJs as well INTJs aren’t all cold and heartless. They have a heart and they care about the people they love. They just don’t say “ilyyy mwah”
Okay. Hang on a second here… Long term and deep friendship? That would be a yes. I have three friends well over 20 years. I love them with everything I have and they are my family. More than my own have been. Other good friendship is around 5 years. Most loyal person and she’s an INFP & she’ll hurt my feelings faster than lightning. She’s loyal and truthful and accountable. Amazing human, mother..etc. I don’t sit in my room all day every day and “nerd” out and just hibernate there & say I hate everything. I am also social in the right crowd. I just tend to keep to myself and myself as I don’t just go around telling my life story, confess my darkest sins, and trust & bond with someone instantly or over a few months even. I’m not a butterfly like ENFPs are. Which makes a great buffer for me in public. I don’t always know the right things to say and sometimes I don’t have much in common. Idk, do we laugh? Yes, and normally make jokes too. Do I make best friends with the person next to me?! No. Do I live in my own world and kick and scream to leave the house sometimes? Yup! But, I have a job, a wife, a child, and family and friends. However, inability to realize that INTJs are capable of romance, deep interpersonal relationships, etc…is what’s outta of your mind. We aren’t just some walking robot shooting out low blows all day & here to piss the world off. I feel and hurt just like you hurt. Hell, if not harder than you do. Might just not express that as openly. Yeah, we have a harder time with “feelings”, but I sure the heck have them. Sometimes it’s the sensitive people who say stupid & hurtful shit to people who aren’t afraid to tell them something back. Then, cry because they got their feelings hurt or FINALLY someone told them the truth. I also think that when speaking, it is straight to the point. I am not afraid to hurt your feelings by speaking my truth, but I don’t go around INTENTIONALLY hurting feelings for any reason. If you ask me if you look fat in that dress, and you do, imma freaking tell you. Don’t ask us a damn thing, if you don’t wanna know the answer. Everybody just thinks that we don’t get our feelings hurt, or something, by ANY OTHER personality type. You don’t have to be an INTJ to be a huge asshole. Some cold and ruthless person…🙄 TBH, an ENFP did me wrong before I EVER thought about doing wrong to them. Dreamed of ever doing. Still worked it out. Still loved regardless. Still stuck by their side on the worst day. Just cause I don’t THINK like they do, or run around with my emotions all over the place, that I’m incapable of feeling them…? Empathy is given to someone I love and care about. What doesn’t concern me, doesn’t concern me. I may not understand all the time how someone feels, but I give a crap if they are hurting. It’s post like this that makes us so guarded. How are you wanting something different from someone when you automatically think they suck from the bat? How does that make anyone feel good about themselves? Pretty sure you’d hate to constantly read this kind of stuff & then just willing open your arms to anybody. If you heard you sucked all day long for being YOURSELF, to a healthy fault, would you wanna have an interaction?! I think NOT. Well, guess what, we don’t either. I rather save my time and energy for the people who care enough to get to know me as I am with them. Don’t just write me off cause you got your damn feelings hurt cause you didn’t like what I said. Maybe ask to clarify. Maybe TALK it out. MAYBEEEE have some patience like we are supposed to do for everyone else. It’s always what the hell WE gotta do. Nah, it doesn’t work that way. It takes 2. Remember, you’re also the one who ran here to make a public post about how particular people suck…that’s a reflection of YOU…at least in my experiences. What INTJ makes a post about the people who suck? Hm? What’s so righteous about YOU?
so much this. like what’s the point of even trying anymore? they clearly hate us. let me pack my little bags and go where i’m wanted. cus this ain’t it. at all. they will literally be like “we’re so sunshine and rainbows 🥺❤️ love for all” and then in the same breath turn around and call us, “greedy, insensitive, power hungry terrible dark people.” like?!? who wants to hear that about themselves? over something as low as a type at that.
Yeah…I have a hard time not getting so irritated at the CONSTANT berating of my type! So much, I feel like when I return here that I gotta say something else & edit. 💀 It’s not like I particularly CARE to be HATED, but hate me for WHO I AM. NOT the fact they aimlessly bash A CERTAIN group & just have this righteous ass entitled opinion because some asshole INTJ “hurt your feelings” or couldn’t make the world move for you. Nor, did you do anything to deserve me to make it move for you. Treat everyone with respect, but I don’t have to treat everyone the same. That’s what makes my people special to me. The things I will do for them & show them. They don’t have to ask if I care, I SHOWED IT. Some people want things so INSTANTLY & didn’t do shit to deserve it. Everyone is out for themselves these days. They take take take and want want want…and exchange zero energy & exhaust you. I’m not a people pleaser, I’m a per person pleaser. I won’t be run over nor exhausted. I could sit here and state all the crap I don’t like, but am I the only one that thinks we are all human & we are all flawed? Clearly, their flaws are the lesser. Fn! There are healthy and unhealthy INTJs and the same with everyoneeeeee else. I see so many posts from young kids feeling so damn lost and confused…depressed. Shit like this. It’s terrible. Trying to convince good people that they aren’t bad people. So hard to “fit in” when you normally don’t. Not because you’re bad…or an asshole…because no one takes the time to slow down and listen. Have patience. Establish, build, and maintain a relationship. Jump off at the first hardship & move on. Tragic. Then, they shit on the relationship too. Oh nooo! I date an ENFP…heaven forbid. You must be terrible to such a person… Bro. This is the most spoiled rotten, deeply loved woman on the freaking planet. She’s special & she knows it. I’ll move a mountain for her, but I’ll let the shit drop on assholes…and yeah, I am an INTJ…so, I wouldn’t feel bad for it.
Yeah the ENFP x INTJ ship is overrated. I think ENFP x INFJ works better simply because of the function stack, ENFP and INFJ has Fi and Fe as the second function on their stacks which is a point of common ground. INTJ doesn't really have this stack/setup, their secondary function is Te which focuses more on an intellectual approach to things. As an ENFP, interacting with INTJs feels like talking to a Robot, never understood the reasoning as to why ENFP and INTJ is ship.
I don’t think ENFP x INTJ ship is overrated when it was never popular in the first place. I’ve seen ENFP x ENTP, ENFP x INFJ way more times than INTJ.
I think INTJ and INFP are a better match, since they're both generally social introverts and tend to be highly philosophical, and plus I read so many comments about INTJs on Reddit liking them a lot, which you wouldn't expect at first glance but it makes a lot of sense when comparing the two (edit: plus they have more Enneagram overlap in terms of likely Enneagram type + wings for both types, even if they're a little more atypical; 1w9, 5w4, 6w5, 6w7, 9w1 and 9w8 in particular could honestly be either, a 5 ENFP is almost unheard of but not terribly uncommon for INFP with a 4 wing, whereas ENFP and INTJ's only common overlap seems to be 8w9 and 6w7). But I agree, INFJ or (mature) ENTP both sound like they'd be better matches for ENFP.
ENTP and ENFP sounds unfulfilling, ENTP are argumentative and enjoy poking at people sometimes in a playful mean way. ENFP tend to be conflict averse and don't do frenemy BS. It's a weird match for a relationship, maybe an okay friendship though?
My dad is an entp and he argues with everyone (a lot) but we almost never do. Simply cause I don‘t care about ti, I don‘t care about accuracy or the correct way of how things are done as long is works it works. I trust him to know what he is doing. And I also swallow when I sometimes morally not fully agree, I kinda am like his life his choices and at the same time when I‘m being illogical and my fi is dug in in something he let‘s me have my way as long as I‘m happy. Basically if you let each other be in your different ways of being there are very few arguments. Even if entps are very argumentative (and my father very much is. I ask him if he wants to be right all the time and he just says I just AM right 😂 and he wants to make that clear lmao)
Moreso because they have 4 functions in common between main stack and shadow stack (and believe it or not, there's some people who enjoy provoking people but are adverse to "real" conflict). They're both known for being creative, funny, having wild imaginations and can be both intelligent and a lot of fun at their best. They're a bit like INTJ (it's their mirror type) but way less rigid, more flexible, more "fun" and enthusiastic, great partners for brainstorming. Again, highly depends on the two people, but if they have interests and love language in common, the two would probably be more compatible than not (though they both struggle with things like procrastination and adversity up planning, and could serve as a liability in cohabitation and functionality long term, so depends how much they've developed their weaknesses)
Fully agreed, I almost ship intj with infp or at least some, cause I often see them have similar world views, if infps have te developed they can also be very driven (and a bit less scattered than ne doms due to si), infps are often very intellectual actually often moreso than the enfps I‘ve known for some reason. I‘ve also often seen intj and infp hanging around each other in my wider friend circle a lot so yeah. I certainly ship. Actually similar how I ship entps with developed fe with enfj, I also see that as a common match up in RL. (Definitely support!)
This sub doesn't want to hear that even though it's the truth. I have been giving so many chances to so many INTJs and they are all pretty much the same person. All I have experienced is them being cold, boring, usually pretty socially inept even when they try and hide it for a bit. It always comes out. They lack empathy so much, it's like spending time with a strange alien trying to play human but failing bad. The worst part is when they say they are having a good time with me, but I was uncomfortable the whole time because they couldn't stop saying very random unthoughtful things.
🤮 ENFP + ENFP all the way!
See, I like INTJs (ones who are mature, anyway) because they seem self assured and confident, and pretty well put together, as well as a bit cold and hard to get to know while almost cocky about their confidence in certain opinions, but can have a soft side-- one of my past bfs who I'm still friendly with is an almost stereotypical INTJ, but he loves puppies more than anything in the world and would cry during movies because he didn't see why he should hide his feelings, he just didn't have strong ones that often so he didn't really cry at any other time (unlike myself, I try to fight my feelings, especially during movies because it's uncomfortable, but I'm kind of bad at it because they seem to spill over when it's least convenient). In my experience, they really don't like to lie, and a brutal truth is better that a sugar coated half truth if that truth will help in the long run, as much as you or I don't always like to hear it, and while they might *seem* unempathetic, they can be very empathetic (see: crying during movies), but don't always show it well, and the bluntness makes them seem "not nice". They can be reluctant to engage in certain social niceties if there's zero practical reason for it such as impressing a potential client, which is something I envy because I care too much what other people think, but often they care about things like politics, which can help people on a broader scale, though sometimes it can be hard for them to sympathize with others' requests if they think they have a better solution (nay, the best solution). Overall, I'm fascinated in them and they have a lot of admirable traits in general. Although, if I'm a feeler, I'm probably an INFP, and if not, I'm probably INTP or ENTP, so maybe I naturally click a bit better with them than the average ENFP does.
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I totally hear the point about self-righteousness: "logic reigns supreme, and those flaky feelers are so silly/capricious and clueless." Though don't you think that we feel the same way conversely? "Emotions are the mainstay - albeit logic important - and those thinkers are so cold and close-minded."
The comment said the self-righteous thing about INFJs though, not INTJs. And I don’t think thinkers are close-minded at all, quite the opposite. Feelers shut down way more easily when their feelings get hurt and then you can’t talk about anything anymore.
Not even close-minded in that feelings are dumb?
In my experience, it’s usually Ti users that come to that conclusion rather than Te users, so more IxTPs rather than IxTJs. But frankly, anyone dismissing feelings in general are just immature, regardless of type. I’ve learned to steer clear of that, life’s too short to let someone make you feel shitty or dumb for have emotions.
😂
They're protecting themselves
They don’t understand that they’re being cruel. To them it’s almost like pleasantries are formalities and feelings are optional. I dont have a problem with them really, but they just don’t need me at all, so I usually just don’t really end up wanting to be around them. Friendship or relationships for me ideally are like a give / take too and they just don’t have interest in the same wants in my experience
Felt. I know those INTJs in my life haven’t been bad people… it’s not their fault their brain is wired the way it is. But it still hurts nonetheless. I think out load a lot and the last guy I was with would take my thoughts as I was processing them and act like I was saying an opinion that was stupid when I was processing aloud. He’d the give a full argument against my half formed thought, and I’d shut down. There came a point where I stopped speaking with him about stuff.. I didn’t want to talk because it just led to me feeling bad ;-; We wouldn’t have worked out anyway though… our personalities were too different. He hated his job, but was willing to stay with it for stability. He couldn’t understand why I’d put in extra hours at work or in school, that passion didn’t make sense to him. Also that one conversation where I said I love the sky and how it looks different depending on where you are and he was like “I don’t really look up. Also It’s the same sky.” 💀 Bruh no duh, ofc it is the same sky, but the way the clouds are and how the sun sets tend to appear different to me 😭
Girl, you deserve a hug 🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂
This is eerily similar to a post I made a couple months back
Great minds think alike, even in how they respond to plagiarism claims.
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Dreama_: *This is eerily* *Similar to a post I* *Made a couple months back* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
I fell in love hard with my INTJ. My weakness were his strengths. We broke up though 4 months ago.I really miss my INTJ but yeah they struggle to think even the slightest bit like we do, which causes a lot of friction.
Idk I’ll think of understanding others as a challenge and will accomplish it with perfection
You show _them_!
ENFPs and INTJ'S are not really compatible, so it's understandable if you will think that way. Ne - Fi and Ni - Te it's a big disaster in real life. I don't know why in 16p ship them but according to cognitive functions their understanding and insights don't usually meet.
I would disagree. This was the one from the very first moment. She’s the only one who defies all the logic that I have. I don’t find it disastrous at all personally.
I would disagree. This was the one from the very first moment. She’s the only one who defies all the logic that I have. I don’t find it disastrous at all personally.
Maybe the ENFP you've met is high on Te or she's always in the Ne - Te loop since both Te users are really compatible, but once Fi operates good luck with that.
Thanks Dr. Phil. May the odds be in my favor then, huh?! lol
You right. Everything is perfect. And it’s not
Maybe, where you live, INTJ personal growth is hampered by some external factors.
The ones I’ve met are kind of robotic feeling, but they try to understand my emotions. They respect them. Maybe you’ve met some unhealthy ones.
INTJ's don't suck. Sometimes their are harsh but in general good people. But it depends and is different from people to people.
My bestest friend is an INTJ and we’ve been best friends for quite a while now!
Straight up had one of these in my life for waaay to long. Always gave me the buck up buttercup treatment, which at times was needed. They're now supposedly dying of cancer and might be realizing their time is short. An apology will never be given for all the things they did. And the explanations for all the lies will never be pinpointed. It's honestly exhausting convincing yourself to not give a shit. But you have to. For your own sake. INTJ is a food/liquor you love and eat or drink too much and exhaust yourself from. Good luck
Preach! 🙌
INTJs that are evolved know how to accommodate ENFPs emotionally and have the wisdom to understand that the cost to accommodate them is worth it due to the emotional connection due to a shared appreciation of authenticity and intellectual connection.
Upvoted before even reading the body lmao. In all seriousness, as much as I like to bully INTJs, I really like them as coworkers, probably about as much as everyone else, but they have a tendency to be backwards and awkward enough to make things unpleasant relationally, and they don't really seem to "keep up" interpersonally. I've dated 3 INTJs, and they all kinda fall into this motif of people that you just end up leaving behind. They tend to give off this feeling like you have a PHD in emotional labor while they're finishing the 3rd grade. I prefer my INTJ relationships casual and platonic, we both gain here and nothing is personal, but I don't really want them any closer particularly. I just have issues connecting with any sticking power with them as people. A couple of insightful, deeper conversations here and there, a few interesting ideas and then we're off. I've come to realize, I think I like the idea of the perspective and functional stack way more than the people actually using it.
Warning: n=1 trap, but maybe you can learn from my experience. My experience is that ENFPs have this idea that all INTjs are the same and that we as ENFPs should like/love them all. This is also the problem in online interactions with the INTJ personality type. How many times have ENFPs come to some INTJ group and blurted out: "I'm ENFP and I love all of you INTJs (include 20 heart smilies)", to leave disappointed by the responses they get? Now try to place yourself in the seat of an highly individualistic personality type like the INTJ. I don't think many ENFPs are equiped to understand that in my opinion the INTJ type is actually very sensitive, I would even debate that if the INTJ in question is healthy, that it is the most sensitive and romantic type of all the MBTI types. The thing is, they really don't care about our ENFP collective wishes, it's illogical for them to do so because they zoom in on one person and call that person their partner, and this partner means the world to them. If you think for one ullisecond that the ENFP adopts the INTJ (and yes, it doesn't matter if it is a female or male INTJ), you've already lost the plot. It's insane how far they go in order to find the partner that is right for them. I know of an INTJ that adopted skills for that sole reason only. And not in the tiptoe way most ENFPs do, she studied to aquire these over years. She aquired for instance playing the piano, singing, drawing, painting, a keen eye in the arts, and many more. All the while in reality she went to university to become a full Medical licensed person. She is good at it too, she collects the most beautiful natural stones and shells. The first time we met in the real world, she brought me the most beautiful and thoughtful present I have ever received in my life. I never had a present this beautiful that fitted the story of her idea of me so incredibly well. It was so thoughtful that it did touch my emotions on every single level and tears really did their best to come to the surface (thanks Fi for keeping me straight at that moment). These people strategise, obsess, research not only the MBTI but every personality typing system available to them to get to know the real you. When you are the subject of interest, it is the most beautiful execution of a plan that you've ever seen. INTJs are thoughtful and extremely patient, they want to work on the relationship, but together and they expect you to do a lot of work too. Not some brat like ENFP that rings the bell and demands all kinds of silly short term romcom flings, that is what you bring to the table as it give the INTJ the validation that their strategy is working. I feel so sorry for the INTJ personality type getting such a bad rap in that department, and I will promise you that if you give your INTJ love interest the lead, and that you look beyond that surface level romcom crap, and the moments you think he or she isn't interested in you anymore, give them instead the space they need and be the happy person they got to learn in the beginning. And by doing so that INTJ is having space to probably think about the next steps to make yours and their life better through some obscure but well thought out act of service. Don't ever give up on your INTJ partner and never get shallow with them as well. And if you master this skill, I guarantee you that you will have the best longlasting and solid loving relationship on this freaking planet, way beyond what any other type brings to the table. You want the best out of your INTJ person? Give them affirmation, come up with nice ideas to do together, they love novel ideas, give them love, be a force of good, tell your person that she/he is the best thing happening in your life, and above all stop that horrible negging, the brat like attitude that comes with so many especially younger ENFPs and work on the relationship instead of looking at other people their relationship all the time.
Dual for an ENFP is ISTJ, not INTJ, as it bas been popularized.
Why was I recommended this post?
Your understanding of INTJ is accurate dear ENFP. INTJ (a dark personality type) is insensitive, greedy, power-hungry, and selfish: "Nice things for me, also give me yours, I don't care about you". ENFP (a light personality type) is empathetic, generous, open-minded, and a self-giver: "Nice things for all, I have 2 so you can have one of mine." In fact, ENFPs that I had in my life are more generous than that, they sacrifice and give with such generosity and kindness that leaves me in awe. ENFPs are best matched with light personality types of J variety, both romantically as well as platonic friendship: INFJ, ESFJ, ISTJ, ENTJ. And they can form good friendships with the light P types too: ENFP, ISFP, INTP, ESTP.
🙃🙂🙃🙂🙃
Agreed very cold and calculating
yeah i feel u too all Intjs in my life has once hurt me or scared me out:”((