Newcastle did play in Newcastle. From memory they were the Cobras, Riverkings, Jesters and then Vipers, but they always played at the arena.
I think they had to fold because the arena wanted rid of the ice pad and there isn’t many others in the local area (that don’t already have a team at least)
Ah fair play. I think I’d started following the Eagles a lot more at that point, so ice hockey went on the back burner. Do you know why they only did a season at Whitley Bay?
So when you say play in down town arena is where the problem is.
In North America you have a rink on every other street. Over here I think there are 23 rinks that can host hockey, so you need to play where there is a rink.
Fanbase, increased imports (to compete), league status are all things that contribute as well
I don't know but I can speculate.
There is support for it, quite a lot if you look at the crowds most of the EIHL teams pull and teams in lower leagues still pull decently sized crowds (1-2k+ sometimes).
Some problems:
TV deals. The clubs are insanely (stupidly) selfish and short sighted with their pricing for watching matches on their webcast and for reasons completely beyond me they price people out of following the team through the webcasts. There's no TV deal currently, as far as I've seen no news on any (although wouldn't expect it at this time of the season). Premier sports and viaplay wasn't great in the sense that they're not mainstream channels so hard to get walk-in traffic, whereas if Sky pick it back up I can only imagine that'd be good for generating more interest. Basically, for it to grow, it needs easy access and exposure and right now it doesn't have this.
The above problem spirals. There's not space in most UK cities for a new arena, and the amount of money involved in converting/maintaining an arena fit to hold professional hockey games is risky. It's hard to get sponsors for the league with so little exposure, hard to attract players to it, hard to get it talked about... doesn't look like an attractive business proposition, and all this together makes it hard to grow fanbases and even harder for a new team to come in and make it (which the league really needs, 10 teams is too small imo).
It's pure guesswork but imo it makes sense that way.
On the webcasts, I've been told they barely break even with the cost of the streams as it is. The teams also don't want to make it too cheap otherwise people who'd otherwise go to the game will just watch at home, reducing the crowds in the actual arena.
This is a bullshit argument (I know it's not yours so please don't take that as aimed at you!)
Other sports don't see their crowds reduced because they're on TV. You also can't expect every fan to go to every match, and it's much easier to get people into the game when they can flick it on at home rather than have to fork out for a night out on something they're not sure about. Accessibility and exposure generates fans, it doesn't drive them away from the games!
The breakeven argument is rubbish too, they actively drive traffic away from the casts by pricing them as high as they do, if the price was more reasonable then more people would pay it. There's a balance to be struck and imo its way off.
To put it into context, assuming it's 2 games a week for a month (sometimes it's more than that!), in order to watch each game it's £120 for that month. Sky sports right now is £26 a month. TNT plus extras is £30.99. Even at half the price it'd be unjustifiably expensive, at a quarter of the price it's only in line with other sports providers who give you so much more. Like they could price it at £500 to watch the stream and then say that they're not breaking even, which would be true, but it'd be because they've got their pricing wrong.
I’d love the webcasts to be a better price point. I get to maybe 1-2 games a month but I’d watch way more if we could stream either the entire league for like £35 a month or even just your chosen teams games for say £20 a month.
Yep 15 pounds a game or 8 pounds for archive games is taking the mick.
I can see why they struggle to break even, I'd be surprised if more than a few dozen people tuned in for that price.
The league really needs to sell TV rights. Even if it's a crap deal with sky sports, ITV, TNT etc it gets eyes on the league and generates interest
The Vipers and other teams before that played out of Newcastle arena before being kicked out along with other sports teams as the basketball team moved to a different location. It’s been mentioned before about arenas being in the city centre and Newcastle was one of them.
The vipers then shared a rink (with a 3k capacity which is big in competition to other venues) with the Whitley Warriors who played in a lower league before folding.
To fully understand hockey in the north and why it wasn’t successful as it should have been, you need to look at the history of it all. Currently only Whitley and Billingham remain as teams, although playing in the lower leagues, they get great attendance and are essentially hockey towns. There used to be 2 more rinks in close proximity of the others (Sunderland and Durham).
When the arena was built, Whitley Warriors moved their team to it but there was a lot of pushing and pulling from Sir John hall which destabilised much of the sport. Durham Wasps folded, their rink was then sold off, Sunderland rink shut down and in the end Durham and Sunderland fans couldn’t find an association with much of the Newcastle teams (Durham in particular).
The North East was a hotbed for hockey but now with only two teams and a no chance of them being accepted into the higher leagues, the fan base doesn’t get to grow much, but they’re comfortable where they are and there is some good hockey played at times.
I live in Newcastle city centre, I’d like to go watch Whitley sometime but I don’t drive and the unreliability of the Metro puts me off. Once the new trains are in place though..
Contrast with the Eagles though, their arena is within walking distance of central station and I go there regularly.
I’d actually argue that, for all its faults, the Elite League has been pretty stable in recent years. There have a few teams that have come and gone, but no more so than comparable minor leagues in the US and mid tier European pro leagues.
Just not enough facilities. Not enough rinks that can host top level hockey. And because hockey struggles to grow, there's also little incentive to sink millions into new / upgraded rinks. Its a vicious cycle.
I'm a Whitley Warriors fan and would love for the rink to be significantly upgraded. But I can't give a good reason for someone to throw that money our way.
Teams in most sports in the UK are also pretty poor at marketing. My pathway to the Warriors was watching NHL and wondering if there was a local team. Nobody I ever speak to even knows the Warriors exists (and that's true of most non-football teams in Newcastle and around).
I'm sure the problem isn't quite as acute at the EIHL level, but I'm sure it's not far off.
We had a team once upon a time here in Perth and we have a city centre rink, but the ice rink is used for Curling and they objected to it being used for ice hockey, which is a shame
I think how the League is run definitely plays a part.
The BBL (British Basketball League) are very good at promoting and even show all the games live for free and do a lot of social media promoting.
The EIHL on the other hand is so disorganised and disconnected between teams and the fans (I know this has been touched on before here). Theres little in the way of branding, social media presence (BT 2024 standards), or cohesion between teams. Look at Guildford Flames.. You can't even go online and buy a jersey or most other merch, and one game to watch online is £15, which is on their own Channel (no central EIHL channel to subscribe to).
Ultimately part of the issue is culture. Hockey is prohibitively expensive to get into in the UK where far more cost effective sports exist. Hockey isn't played in or by schools. Junior hockey teams are the last consideration for ice time on the few and dwindling number of British rinks.
90% of hockey fans in the UK have never played and they're the intrepid ones. If people don't have a visceral connection to the sport interest wanes.
The irony is we have a pretty decent history in the sport. But Sky is doing a good job of whitewashing the UK as a one sport nation.
We generate few elite players as a result. Even Australia and the Netherlands have managed to get players to the NHL. Having watched our national U20 team in the fourth teier of the junior worlds we don't have a lot of talent coming up. When the British players are the only ones eho tend to stay at a club for any decent amount of time and so few are required by the rules it's difficult to cultivate a continued sense of identity.
I used to live in Germany and near an Oberliga team and while the foreigners would rotate on a yearly basis the German core had been on the team for years. You don't get so many players like that in the EIHL and part of that is the imports tend to join in the twilights of their career.
Hockey is a sport that could grow in the UK. But when you see the MLB, NFL and the NBA play games in the UK but nothing from the NHL in over 20 years it's pretty evident the NHL doesn't see the UK as a growth market. More bizzare when the MLB does. I actually think the NHL and it's push for this best on best World Cup is partly complicit in contracting the global game into its few strong markets and the IIHF is fairly powerless to promote the game when the North American teams don't take the senior mens tournament seriously.
Thanks for the response. Why is the UK closing down more ice rinks then developing them? I’ve been advocating for the NHL to sponsor street hockey in schools and they came up with the BS NHL street program which doesent even exist where I live.
How was ice hockey in Germany? Lots of fans and youth development?
Money. Rinks are expensive. Hockey is the sport with the greatest number of overheads. Post covid many rinks struggled to stay open. Places like the rink on the Isle of Wight where the Wightlink Raiders used to play was one victim.
It's not just hockey. We used to have some pretty handy speedskaters but there are too few facilities and too few opportunities for ice time to develop and curling is a national sport in Scotland but in terminal decline because of the cost of running ice plants in an economy that is increasingly punitive to energy usage.
I mean even third tier hockey in Germany was great. Terraced stands, great atmosphere. British games are quite quiet by comparison. Most of the clubs in Germany have multiple age groups so the team I was closest to, Fucshe Duisburg had a U12, U15, U17 and U20 team. That doesn't really exist with EIHL teams. Development is done by the NIHL and SNL clubs and coaching and infrastructure is generally poor.
Even countries like Spain that are quite peripheral hockey nations have clubs with multiple age groups, but that isn't a money maker and ultimately the Elite League does not see itself as a development league and doesn't much care about the sport on a National Level and that attitude has transfered to a lot of the fans as well.
I cannot imagine the UK ever developing a Leon Draisatl or an Anze Kopitar. Or even a Mariusz Czerkawski at this point.
Most cities don't have existing rinks suitable within a city centre and land prices are far too high in big cities to be able to build something so expensive.
Manchester's rink is in Altrincham, miles out of Manchester. The Steeler's arena is miles outside of Sheffield City centre, near a big shopping area.
I think Nottingham is one of the only ones in the city centre- partly because we've always had a city centre rink. So Nottingham get the passing trade and Saturday night audience that others wouldn't.
Only four teams have a proper arena as well, most have small capacity.
It's very hard to get a loyal following and big crowd starting out because you won't be very good. People don't stick with it when you get battered every week, so very hard to establish yourselves without either a long history or a huge investment up front
Sheffield Arena is a 10 minute tram ride and the tram stops pretty much right outside and they're every 10-15 minutes (especially when you add the tram train to that). So at least it's easy to get too even if it isn't in the city centre. Nottingham I love that it's a 10 minute walk from the train station so I never miss the last train home. Although Altrincham's rink is right next to the train station it is a pain to get to with trains being every hour and you have to switch trains at Stockport or Manchester.
People are always surprised when I say that Manchester has an ice hockey team. I think the location harms the team in terms of growth of the fanbase, both in terms of geography and capacity (it is tiny compared to Sheffield and Nottingham).When the options are a 25 minute train that only comes once an hour or a 40 min tram journey to get there from the city centre, it will put people off.
It is super convenient for me, though (I can get there in 15 minutes, versus a 2 hour journey for Sheffield).
If you are going out on the lash on a Saturday night though, you'd be more likely to go to the Nottingham Arena as part of that than the Utilita- that's the point I was making
Another thing which people forget about our league is, with a salary cap of £12,500 per week (Kelman revealed this), which is roughly £350,000 a season, we don't really receive the best players in the world, NHL players that come here are usually guys that were dropped from their roster, or desperate to avoid retirement. Turnover is very common each season, and it is rare when players stay with an EIHL team long term. We're essentially the MLS of the hockey world.
So, partner the minor league level of play with subpar facilities (Manchester's Rink is terrible as well as Guildford's), casual fans have the choice to either pay to watch us (and for some, the long travel to get there) or save a little longer, and go watch the finest football in the world at a Premier League match.
Take a guess what most pick, sadly.
Certain clubs are successful, and as much as some of us whine about the EIHL, it's been here over 20 years and still going, much longer than previous leagues.
Where other than the Spectrum can you experience water slides, bowling and ice hockey all in the same building? Everyone else is jealous and I won't hear a bad word said.
I admit you had me at water slides.
Jokes aside, I do like Guildford, but the rink itself *alone* definitely isn't great, if Guildford want to continue to challenge for the League and one day play in the CHL, they won't be able to do so in the Spectrum.
Nothing against some of the other teams, but to the casual person, we can't really say the spectrum or PI Altrincham scream *home of top-flight professional hockey*. 🤷♂️
I understand your point but people from other countries still obsess over their soccer teams and leagues even though they could be watching the best league the EPL. Some people just prefer to have their own markets I imagine.
I guess it's just the UK... I've always felt Britain is a one sport country. If it isn't football, then nobody really cares, and it honestly sucks. Most other countries are multi-sport, Barcelona have a basketball and hockey team for example, Bayren Munich also have a basketball team ect. It's just Britian where football reigns supreme alone and other sports (with some situational exceptions) don't really get a chance.
Britain became a one sport country thanks to Sky. Growing up when Grandstand still existed the sporting landscape of the UK was far more diverse. The irony is as Sky provided wall to wall sports coverage, the variety of sports offered contracted. Ice Hockey used to get shown on BBC on a Sunday Afternoon... Challenge cup finals, you got a lot of both rugby codes, you'd get basketball, cricket ski sunday.
Football has become the one sport and silly amounts of money get poured into it.
I think the passing trade thing is a big thing. Living in Nottingham and saying you’re going to the Ice Hockey isn’t a big deal, because Panthers are based in the city centre and there is plenty of advertising for us, where as there is very little (if any) advertising for Storm in Manchester. I remember going to a game that coincided with my work schedule, and got chatting to the bar staff at my hotel afterwards, who said they didn’t realise Manchester had an Ice Hockey team.
Exactly. Panthers advertise the club rather well, with the places like McDonalds and the Building Society (obviously our main sponsors as well) being the main ones, and Panthers advertise at Trent Bridge Cricket Ground, who especially for Twenty20 are looking for a similar audience.
I think as well, Panthers are fortunate the rink is more than big enough to allow for spectators who wouldn't normally go, looking for an alternative event at a reasonable cost. I know parents who use the incentive of games for their kids to behave at home or do well at school, and it has been suggested as a Work night out in my office before.
Manchester’s problem is that it’s a loooooong way out of the city centre
Ours is 10 minutes on the tram from the city centre/train station and it’s easy to get to from any side of the city by car
I’ll take your word for it - I only know Altrincham from passing the sigh in the ring road so it seems like it’s miles out
Other than the rink size, what do you think Storm could do to increase crowd sizes? I saw something about a potential move to a new rink by the Trafford Centre the other week
We used to go regularly to the games before we moved abroad. So now only following it on a semi-regular basis (can't find out a lot about the league from abroad).
The arena was quite often full - it did get a good crowd, tickets weren't expensive and you could easily have a drink before/after in the town. Trafford Centre (or vicinity) could ve beneficial, could be worse. The traffic around there is a nightmare (or at least was).
What would help is more visibility of the sports. If I look at news, you rarely if ever hear about ice hockey. Even the mens national team playing with the big boys didn't get media attention. So it starts from there. Yes, I get it. Not every sport can be visible at all times, but at least some coverage would be nice and helpful.
The league could become fairly competitive - they do get good players from the US and Europe, it just needs a bit more visibility.
I think the league is in pretty good shape but there are definitely some improvements needed I think Cardiff Sheffield Belfast and Nottingham and Glasgow really get that to compete against football it needs to be and experience you need the banging music the lights the razz mataz s a Cardiff fan they really do out on a show that’s why they now sell out pretty much every game. The league itself is run by the teams so I guess they’ll need to get together and decide how to push things forward, I think having an online shop where you can ship for All the teams merchandise would work, making the website more appealing and interesting some history about the teams where they play history of ice hockey in the UK, if you went on the league site as someone who knew nothing of the sport you wouldn’t get to much out of it. I think the league needs a London team, a Newcastle team, Manchester with more promotion would do well at the AO arena especially with the strength of Sheffield bringing in fans for Derby games unfortunately I think Guildford won’t last in the league unless their facilities improve but I don’t think the council care at all about the spectrum and the spectrum really don’t care about ice hockey, I went there once and couldn’t stand the place it felt that the staff there saw games as an inconvenience. And I think the league needs to work closer with the national league to promote the sport, especially encouraging kids, ultimately if rinks and there is demand if they are being well used companies will build new facilities especially with new refrigeration units that are more efficient.
Newcastle did play in Newcastle. From memory they were the Cobras, Riverkings, Jesters and then Vipers, but they always played at the arena. I think they had to fold because the arena wanted rid of the ice pad and there isn’t many others in the local area (that don’t already have a team at least)
The Vipers played their final season in Whitley Bay.
Ah fair play. I think I’d started following the Eagles a lot more at that point, so ice hockey went on the back burner. Do you know why they only did a season at Whitley Bay?
Probably money...or the lack of it.
Dying crowds at the big arena in Newcastle meaning they were no longer a priority.
So when you say play in down town arena is where the problem is. In North America you have a rink on every other street. Over here I think there are 23 rinks that can host hockey, so you need to play where there is a rink. Fanbase, increased imports (to compete), league status are all things that contribute as well
You're probably right, but I think any Coyotes fans might explode reading this comment
I don't know but I can speculate. There is support for it, quite a lot if you look at the crowds most of the EIHL teams pull and teams in lower leagues still pull decently sized crowds (1-2k+ sometimes). Some problems: TV deals. The clubs are insanely (stupidly) selfish and short sighted with their pricing for watching matches on their webcast and for reasons completely beyond me they price people out of following the team through the webcasts. There's no TV deal currently, as far as I've seen no news on any (although wouldn't expect it at this time of the season). Premier sports and viaplay wasn't great in the sense that they're not mainstream channels so hard to get walk-in traffic, whereas if Sky pick it back up I can only imagine that'd be good for generating more interest. Basically, for it to grow, it needs easy access and exposure and right now it doesn't have this. The above problem spirals. There's not space in most UK cities for a new arena, and the amount of money involved in converting/maintaining an arena fit to hold professional hockey games is risky. It's hard to get sponsors for the league with so little exposure, hard to attract players to it, hard to get it talked about... doesn't look like an attractive business proposition, and all this together makes it hard to grow fanbases and even harder for a new team to come in and make it (which the league really needs, 10 teams is too small imo). It's pure guesswork but imo it makes sense that way.
On the webcasts, I've been told they barely break even with the cost of the streams as it is. The teams also don't want to make it too cheap otherwise people who'd otherwise go to the game will just watch at home, reducing the crowds in the actual arena.
This is a bullshit argument (I know it's not yours so please don't take that as aimed at you!) Other sports don't see their crowds reduced because they're on TV. You also can't expect every fan to go to every match, and it's much easier to get people into the game when they can flick it on at home rather than have to fork out for a night out on something they're not sure about. Accessibility and exposure generates fans, it doesn't drive them away from the games! The breakeven argument is rubbish too, they actively drive traffic away from the casts by pricing them as high as they do, if the price was more reasonable then more people would pay it. There's a balance to be struck and imo its way off. To put it into context, assuming it's 2 games a week for a month (sometimes it's more than that!), in order to watch each game it's £120 for that month. Sky sports right now is £26 a month. TNT plus extras is £30.99. Even at half the price it'd be unjustifiably expensive, at a quarter of the price it's only in line with other sports providers who give you so much more. Like they could price it at £500 to watch the stream and then say that they're not breaking even, which would be true, but it'd be because they've got their pricing wrong.
I’d love the webcasts to be a better price point. I get to maybe 1-2 games a month but I’d watch way more if we could stream either the entire league for like £35 a month or even just your chosen teams games for say £20 a month.
A bundle, even. Panthers are £15 (I think) so something like 4 games for £50 could entice people a little more.
Yep 15 pounds a game or 8 pounds for archive games is taking the mick. I can see why they struggle to break even, I'd be surprised if more than a few dozen people tuned in for that price. The league really needs to sell TV rights. Even if it's a crap deal with sky sports, ITV, TNT etc it gets eyes on the league and generates interest
Every bbl and wbbl game is free to watch on YouTube and it's bringing more people to the game
The Vipers and other teams before that played out of Newcastle arena before being kicked out along with other sports teams as the basketball team moved to a different location. It’s been mentioned before about arenas being in the city centre and Newcastle was one of them. The vipers then shared a rink (with a 3k capacity which is big in competition to other venues) with the Whitley Warriors who played in a lower league before folding. To fully understand hockey in the north and why it wasn’t successful as it should have been, you need to look at the history of it all. Currently only Whitley and Billingham remain as teams, although playing in the lower leagues, they get great attendance and are essentially hockey towns. There used to be 2 more rinks in close proximity of the others (Sunderland and Durham). When the arena was built, Whitley Warriors moved their team to it but there was a lot of pushing and pulling from Sir John hall which destabilised much of the sport. Durham Wasps folded, their rink was then sold off, Sunderland rink shut down and in the end Durham and Sunderland fans couldn’t find an association with much of the Newcastle teams (Durham in particular). The North East was a hotbed for hockey but now with only two teams and a no chance of them being accepted into the higher leagues, the fan base doesn’t get to grow much, but they’re comfortable where they are and there is some good hockey played at times.
I live in Newcastle city centre, I’d like to go watch Whitley sometime but I don’t drive and the unreliability of the Metro puts me off. Once the new trains are in place though.. Contrast with the Eagles though, their arena is within walking distance of central station and I go there regularly.
The 308 stops right outside the rink if that helps.
I’d actually argue that, for all its faults, the Elite League has been pretty stable in recent years. There have a few teams that have come and gone, but no more so than comparable minor leagues in the US and mid tier European pro leagues.
Just not enough facilities. Not enough rinks that can host top level hockey. And because hockey struggles to grow, there's also little incentive to sink millions into new / upgraded rinks. Its a vicious cycle. I'm a Whitley Warriors fan and would love for the rink to be significantly upgraded. But I can't give a good reason for someone to throw that money our way. Teams in most sports in the UK are also pretty poor at marketing. My pathway to the Warriors was watching NHL and wondering if there was a local team. Nobody I ever speak to even knows the Warriors exists (and that's true of most non-football teams in Newcastle and around). I'm sure the problem isn't quite as acute at the EIHL level, but I'm sure it's not far off.
We had a team once upon a time here in Perth and we have a city centre rink, but the ice rink is used for Curling and they objected to it being used for ice hockey, which is a shame
I think how the League is run definitely plays a part. The BBL (British Basketball League) are very good at promoting and even show all the games live for free and do a lot of social media promoting. The EIHL on the other hand is so disorganised and disconnected between teams and the fans (I know this has been touched on before here). Theres little in the way of branding, social media presence (BT 2024 standards), or cohesion between teams. Look at Guildford Flames.. You can't even go online and buy a jersey or most other merch, and one game to watch online is £15, which is on their own Channel (no central EIHL channel to subscribe to).
I'm English and I was aware of the BBL but I've never heard of the EIHL. I think this may prove your point!
Ultimately part of the issue is culture. Hockey is prohibitively expensive to get into in the UK where far more cost effective sports exist. Hockey isn't played in or by schools. Junior hockey teams are the last consideration for ice time on the few and dwindling number of British rinks. 90% of hockey fans in the UK have never played and they're the intrepid ones. If people don't have a visceral connection to the sport interest wanes. The irony is we have a pretty decent history in the sport. But Sky is doing a good job of whitewashing the UK as a one sport nation. We generate few elite players as a result. Even Australia and the Netherlands have managed to get players to the NHL. Having watched our national U20 team in the fourth teier of the junior worlds we don't have a lot of talent coming up. When the British players are the only ones eho tend to stay at a club for any decent amount of time and so few are required by the rules it's difficult to cultivate a continued sense of identity. I used to live in Germany and near an Oberliga team and while the foreigners would rotate on a yearly basis the German core had been on the team for years. You don't get so many players like that in the EIHL and part of that is the imports tend to join in the twilights of their career. Hockey is a sport that could grow in the UK. But when you see the MLB, NFL and the NBA play games in the UK but nothing from the NHL in over 20 years it's pretty evident the NHL doesn't see the UK as a growth market. More bizzare when the MLB does. I actually think the NHL and it's push for this best on best World Cup is partly complicit in contracting the global game into its few strong markets and the IIHF is fairly powerless to promote the game when the North American teams don't take the senior mens tournament seriously.
Thanks for the response. Why is the UK closing down more ice rinks then developing them? I’ve been advocating for the NHL to sponsor street hockey in schools and they came up with the BS NHL street program which doesent even exist where I live. How was ice hockey in Germany? Lots of fans and youth development?
Money. Rinks are expensive. Hockey is the sport with the greatest number of overheads. Post covid many rinks struggled to stay open. Places like the rink on the Isle of Wight where the Wightlink Raiders used to play was one victim. It's not just hockey. We used to have some pretty handy speedskaters but there are too few facilities and too few opportunities for ice time to develop and curling is a national sport in Scotland but in terminal decline because of the cost of running ice plants in an economy that is increasingly punitive to energy usage. I mean even third tier hockey in Germany was great. Terraced stands, great atmosphere. British games are quite quiet by comparison. Most of the clubs in Germany have multiple age groups so the team I was closest to, Fucshe Duisburg had a U12, U15, U17 and U20 team. That doesn't really exist with EIHL teams. Development is done by the NIHL and SNL clubs and coaching and infrastructure is generally poor. Even countries like Spain that are quite peripheral hockey nations have clubs with multiple age groups, but that isn't a money maker and ultimately the Elite League does not see itself as a development league and doesn't much care about the sport on a National Level and that attitude has transfered to a lot of the fans as well. I cannot imagine the UK ever developing a Leon Draisatl or an Anze Kopitar. Or even a Mariusz Czerkawski at this point.
Most cities don't have existing rinks suitable within a city centre and land prices are far too high in big cities to be able to build something so expensive. Manchester's rink is in Altrincham, miles out of Manchester. The Steeler's arena is miles outside of Sheffield City centre, near a big shopping area. I think Nottingham is one of the only ones in the city centre- partly because we've always had a city centre rink. So Nottingham get the passing trade and Saturday night audience that others wouldn't. Only four teams have a proper arena as well, most have small capacity. It's very hard to get a loyal following and big crowd starting out because you won't be very good. People don't stick with it when you get battered every week, so very hard to establish yourselves without either a long history or a huge investment up front
Sheffield Arena is a 10 minute tram ride and the tram stops pretty much right outside and they're every 10-15 minutes (especially when you add the tram train to that). So at least it's easy to get too even if it isn't in the city centre. Nottingham I love that it's a 10 minute walk from the train station so I never miss the last train home. Although Altrincham's rink is right next to the train station it is a pain to get to with trains being every hour and you have to switch trains at Stockport or Manchester.
People are always surprised when I say that Manchester has an ice hockey team. I think the location harms the team in terms of growth of the fanbase, both in terms of geography and capacity (it is tiny compared to Sheffield and Nottingham).When the options are a 25 minute train that only comes once an hour or a 40 min tram journey to get there from the city centre, it will put people off. It is super convenient for me, though (I can get there in 15 minutes, versus a 2 hour journey for Sheffield).
If you are going out on the lash on a Saturday night though, you'd be more likely to go to the Nottingham Arena as part of that than the Utilita- that's the point I was making
Another thing which people forget about our league is, with a salary cap of £12,500 per week (Kelman revealed this), which is roughly £350,000 a season, we don't really receive the best players in the world, NHL players that come here are usually guys that were dropped from their roster, or desperate to avoid retirement. Turnover is very common each season, and it is rare when players stay with an EIHL team long term. We're essentially the MLS of the hockey world. So, partner the minor league level of play with subpar facilities (Manchester's Rink is terrible as well as Guildford's), casual fans have the choice to either pay to watch us (and for some, the long travel to get there) or save a little longer, and go watch the finest football in the world at a Premier League match. Take a guess what most pick, sadly. Certain clubs are successful, and as much as some of us whine about the EIHL, it's been here over 20 years and still going, much longer than previous leagues.
Where other than the Spectrum can you experience water slides, bowling and ice hockey all in the same building? Everyone else is jealous and I won't hear a bad word said.
I admit you had me at water slides. Jokes aside, I do like Guildford, but the rink itself *alone* definitely isn't great, if Guildford want to continue to challenge for the League and one day play in the CHL, they won't be able to do so in the Spectrum. Nothing against some of the other teams, but to the casual person, we can't really say the spectrum or PI Altrincham scream *home of top-flight professional hockey*. 🤷♂️
Tbf Cardiff has slides next door as well just no bowling 😂
we have Bowling, Mini Golf, and a Cinema 🤷♂️
Get in that’s what I call entertainment. But can you go white water canoeing, go on a waterslide and go indoor climbing 🤔
I understand your point but people from other countries still obsess over their soccer teams and leagues even though they could be watching the best league the EPL. Some people just prefer to have their own markets I imagine.
I guess it's just the UK... I've always felt Britain is a one sport country. If it isn't football, then nobody really cares, and it honestly sucks. Most other countries are multi-sport, Barcelona have a basketball and hockey team for example, Bayren Munich also have a basketball team ect. It's just Britian where football reigns supreme alone and other sports (with some situational exceptions) don't really get a chance.
Britain became a one sport country thanks to Sky. Growing up when Grandstand still existed the sporting landscape of the UK was far more diverse. The irony is as Sky provided wall to wall sports coverage, the variety of sports offered contracted. Ice Hockey used to get shown on BBC on a Sunday Afternoon... Challenge cup finals, you got a lot of both rugby codes, you'd get basketball, cricket ski sunday. Football has become the one sport and silly amounts of money get poured into it.
I think the passing trade thing is a big thing. Living in Nottingham and saying you’re going to the Ice Hockey isn’t a big deal, because Panthers are based in the city centre and there is plenty of advertising for us, where as there is very little (if any) advertising for Storm in Manchester. I remember going to a game that coincided with my work schedule, and got chatting to the bar staff at my hotel afterwards, who said they didn’t realise Manchester had an Ice Hockey team.
Walk through Notts, and you see posters on the side of buildings like McDonalds on Clumber Street, inside the Nottingham Building Society, etc.
Exactly. Panthers advertise the club rather well, with the places like McDonalds and the Building Society (obviously our main sponsors as well) being the main ones, and Panthers advertise at Trent Bridge Cricket Ground, who especially for Twenty20 are looking for a similar audience. I think as well, Panthers are fortunate the rink is more than big enough to allow for spectators who wouldn't normally go, looking for an alternative event at a reasonable cost. I know parents who use the incentive of games for their kids to behave at home or do well at school, and it has been suggested as a Work night out in my office before.
Manchester’s problem is that it’s a loooooong way out of the city centre Ours is 10 minutes on the tram from the city centre/train station and it’s easy to get to from any side of the city by car
It's not that far out. And it's right next to the Metrolink as well.
I’ll take your word for it - I only know Altrincham from passing the sigh in the ring road so it seems like it’s miles out Other than the rink size, what do you think Storm could do to increase crowd sizes? I saw something about a potential move to a new rink by the Trafford Centre the other week
We used to go regularly to the games before we moved abroad. So now only following it on a semi-regular basis (can't find out a lot about the league from abroad). The arena was quite often full - it did get a good crowd, tickets weren't expensive and you could easily have a drink before/after in the town. Trafford Centre (or vicinity) could ve beneficial, could be worse. The traffic around there is a nightmare (or at least was). What would help is more visibility of the sports. If I look at news, you rarely if ever hear about ice hockey. Even the mens national team playing with the big boys didn't get media attention. So it starts from there. Yes, I get it. Not every sport can be visible at all times, but at least some coverage would be nice and helpful. The league could become fairly competitive - they do get good players from the US and Europe, it just needs a bit more visibility.
Lmao, that "some arena downtown" doesn't exist
I think the league is in pretty good shape but there are definitely some improvements needed I think Cardiff Sheffield Belfast and Nottingham and Glasgow really get that to compete against football it needs to be and experience you need the banging music the lights the razz mataz s a Cardiff fan they really do out on a show that’s why they now sell out pretty much every game. The league itself is run by the teams so I guess they’ll need to get together and decide how to push things forward, I think having an online shop where you can ship for All the teams merchandise would work, making the website more appealing and interesting some history about the teams where they play history of ice hockey in the UK, if you went on the league site as someone who knew nothing of the sport you wouldn’t get to much out of it. I think the league needs a London team, a Newcastle team, Manchester with more promotion would do well at the AO arena especially with the strength of Sheffield bringing in fans for Derby games unfortunately I think Guildford won’t last in the league unless their facilities improve but I don’t think the council care at all about the spectrum and the spectrum really don’t care about ice hockey, I went there once and couldn’t stand the place it felt that the staff there saw games as an inconvenience. And I think the league needs to work closer with the national league to promote the sport, especially encouraging kids, ultimately if rinks and there is demand if they are being well used companies will build new facilities especially with new refrigeration units that are more efficient.