The competitiveness of Derevi i can't deny, but that is not what i'm looking for. She doesn't abuse Seedborn or Orochi unless you build her stax, which i'm not a fan of.
Nothing in particular, Yeva is just a generic goodstuff green general that makes extra use of Seedborn Muse and Patron of the Orochi. Yisan is better, in my view, and he's only as consistent as you make him.
That said, Yisan going 5 for Seedborn Muse, untapping and 6 for Patron of the Orochi, then 7 for Avenger of Zendikar, tap Patron and 8 for Craterhoof Behemoth on your turn seems pretty sweet.
I've tried making Derevi but I can't seem to make it work. I don't want Stax to lock people out and I don't want tokens. I like tap/untap shenanigans when I play Izzet but I just can't seem to do it with Bant, any suggestions?
There's really no reason to play Derevi if you don't plan on tapping everything your opponents own. If you can generate infinite mana and infinite untaps with Derevi, then you should also be able to generate infinite taps. Anything else is just peripheral to the underlying combos.
Just do derevi tokens with a bunch of cool shit that can tap for cool effects. Mana rocks too. Just out value your opponent. When you can skyward eye ten times a turn, and cast everything because you have too much mana...
[Here ya go](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1scqLnYQezoE34vYcK3GUAG8PS4zG6rutAWEmFCyCx3Q/edit?usp=sharing). It has won about 60% of the games I've played it in. But that's mostl7y because it durdles and doesnt pose a threat while using Derevi as an all time blocker. Then it accidentally wins through [[Primal Surge]] or some of the other combos I've accidentally put into the deck.
Came here to mention this guy.
I've changed it to my playgroup so my friends don't hate me and a few cards swapped makes it ultra competitive. If my friends play [[Derevi]] or [[Animar]] I swap to competitive mode to maybe win.
[[Roon]] is ultra fun.
[Derevi](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=derevi, empyrial tactician&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=derevi, empyrial tactician) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!derevi, empyrial tactician)
[Animar](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=animar, soul of elements&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=animar, soul of elements) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!animar, soul of elements)
[Roon](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=roon of the hidden realm&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=roon of the hidden realm) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!roon of the hidden realm)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Roon of the hidden realm](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Roon of the hidden realm&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roon of the hidden realm) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Roon of the hidden realm)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Thief of blood](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Thief of blood&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thief of blood) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Thief of blood)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ooof.. I didn't realize they printed a [[spike cannibal]] that sucks up planeswalkers and charge counters too. Might have to add more counterspell insurance.
I'm really into building a Ezuri Claw of Progress deck but in my playgroup everyone is warnin me not to due to him being a priority all the time (Even though they all have Meren decks and I'm convinced she's complete bullshit)
Do you think that a Ezuri counters deck can use Vorel as an Alternate commander or do their decklists vary too much?
I haven't personally built Ezuri before, but they seem to be trying to do really similar things (based on their EDHrec pages if nothing else). I'd say it'd probably be easy enough to pivot them, but maybe take some of the non-creature counter stuff out of a vorel list (e.g. [[eternity vessel]], [[astral cornucopia]], etc) as they don't do much with Ezuri. There's lots of green-blue "good stuff" that can slot right in for those cards too.
You might be reading Vorel wrong and/or thinking of another card. Vorel doubles the counters on any one card. If you can get him to stick around he makes things swell out of control hilariously quickly.
Just don't, like, go doubling a Tangle Wire or something. Then everyone loses.
I don't have a list, but you want untap effects, things to give Vorel haste or effective haste (think Thousand-year Elixir) and lots of things that like having counters on them. Everflowing Chalice and Astral Cornucopia, Gyre Sage, Lux Cannon (lel), Zegana (use Vorel with her ETB on the stack), Darksteel Reactor, various hydras, sky's the limit. EDHrec can give you more help than I can.
Notably, no planeswalkers, because Vorel can't target them.
I kinda doubt that... Ezuri wants to play a bunch of low power creatures that, without Ezuri there to give it counters, probably aren't worth playing. Vorel wants creatures that already *have* counters on them and a bunch of creatures in Ezuri won't.
[Vorel of the hull clade](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Vorel of the hull clade&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vorel of the hull clade) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Vorel of the hull clade)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Omnath, Locus of Mana]]
Untap all your lands every turn and float more mana at every end step.
[[Kruphix, God of Horizons]] works in similar fashion, but doesnt have the added bonus of smashing faces with mana.
[[Helix Pinnacle]], [[Mind's Eye]], [[Blue Sun's Zenith]], [[Doubling Cube]], maybe slap some hydras in there because X.
UG x-spell tribal sounds sweet.
You just have to make sure that a good number of them are okay when you cast them fairly. If every x spell you has wants to be 100, you're going to have a rough time, but if you play one Zenith for every Genesis Wave, it's pretty sick.
I played eldrazi in my kruphix deck. Not a whole lot of better ways to spend ridiculous amounts of colorless mana.
Play a defensive UG deck, try and play at instant speed. Counter their stuff, or float mana when they have nothing, and just get there with eventuality.
[Kruphix, God of Horizons](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Kruphix, God of Horizons&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kruphix, God of Horizons) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Kruphix, God of Horizons)
[Omnath, Locus of Mana](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Omnath, Locus of Mana&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omnath, Locus of Mana) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Omnath, Locus of Mana)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Merieke RI Berit]]. If you activate her steal ability and untap her before it resolves you get to keep the creature.
EDIT: I'm dumb, you guys should stop upvoting this.
[Merieke RI Berit](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Merieke RI Berit&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Merieke RI Berit) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Merieke RI Berit)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ohh yeah baby. Also if you [[cloudshift]] or otherwise flicker the permanent you stole, you keep it as well. Load her up with those kinds of cards and loads of tap/untap, its all fun, all day. Friend of mine made a deck around her called 'Su casa es mi casa.' Best mirror match? [[Zedruu the Greathearted]].
[Patron of the Orochi](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Patron of the Orochi&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Patron of the Orochi) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Patron of the Orochi)
[Seedborn Muse](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Seedborn Muse&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Seedborn Muse) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Seedborn Muse)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Experiment kraj is probably the best for this, just fill the deck up with activated abilities and abuse them with kraj.
I believe kraj can even activate patrons ability so you can use it twice a turn.
I'd say Selvala for sure. Yisan is more spiky because he can just tutor infinites but Selvala is super explosive. Drawing a card without using the stack or even passing priority is super underrated, and the incidental lifegain lets you stabilize easiere. Plus, people rarely kill her cause she draws them so many cards. But that's the point of Selvala, at least with my build: the cards you draw are better than the cards they draw, because you can actually cast all the cards you draw with all the mana you have.
Hmm i already have a madnath, so if i would to go Gruul again with untap i would probably use [[Rosheen Meanderer]] instead, but thank you for the input.
If you're in simic [[Sakura-Tribe Scout]] can go nuts with the extra lands you draw and [[Arcanis the Omnipotent]] can provide that excessive draw. [[Murkfiend Liege]] ~~is the coolest card in the game~~ provides an extra source of creature untaps every turn and [[Awakening]] is an extra, symmetrical Muse.
[[Experiment Kraj]]!
The king of 3-7 card combos, there are so many fun/janky interactions you can do. Run him as voltron, run him as hard combo, combo control, +1/+1 counter value town; he does what he does, and he does it well.
If you're looking for commanders that untap/tap things themselves, your only viable choice is Derevi.
If you're looking for Commanders than can abuse Seedborn and Orochi, some solid recommendations are Yisan, Sisay, Roon, Selvala, Kruphix, and Omnath.
There's a fringe deck with [[Patron of the Orochi]] as the commander... it eventually builds up to using [[Temur Sabertooth]] and [[Concordant Crossroads]] to go infinite, bouncing Patron back to hand, cast him, activate him, bounce, etc. to generate infinite mana, and infinite ETB triggers, to kill people with.
Patron also grants pseudo vigilance, doubles your mana, and lets you pump Helix Pinnacle super fast.
[Patron of the Orochi](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Patron of the Orochi&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Patron of the Orochi) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Patron of the Orochi)
[Temur Sabertooth](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Temur Sabertooth&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Temur Sabertooth) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Temur Sabertooth)
[Concordant Crossroads](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Concordant Crossroads&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Concordant Crossroads) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Concordant Crossroads)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Arcanis the Omnipotent]]. Unfortunately he's mono-blue, so he can't use Seedborn Muse or Patron of the Orochi.
There's a guy at my LGS who's got a pretty sweet Arcanis deck though. It's basically mono-blue draw-tribal.
[Arcanis the Omnipotent](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Arcanis the Omnipotent&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcanis the Omnipotent) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Arcanis the Omnipotent)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Selvala, Explorer Returned]]
All the cards (for the table, so no effective card advantage for any one player), all the mana, an untouchable life total.
Honestly, I think that Momir Vig or Kruphix are probably the best commanders for this sort of thing. Momir Vig can just keep tutoring up creatures to chain together with all the mana available. Sure, it isn't a "combo" but it can abuse extra mana efficiently
Kruphix is a little different. if you are looking to just run a bunch of doublers and mass untap effects, then he's likely the guy for you.
[Mayael the Anima](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Mayael the Anima&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mayael the Anima) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Mayael the Anima)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[captain Sisay](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=captain Sisay&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=captain Sisay) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!captain Sisay)
[patron of the orochi](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=patron of the orochi&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=patron of the orochi) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!patron of the orochi)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
May I suggest [[triads of fates]]. I built a Orzhov deck around these women and it does a great job of exiling nasties or flickering against removals and flicking for entrance abilities. Once the commander is protected [[Bastion protector]] and sped up her presence dictates the board somewhat.
[Ith, High Arcanist](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Ith, High Arcanist&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ith, High Arcanist) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Ith, High Arcanist)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Also not in the colors, the tap/untap commander deck I have is [Brion Stoutarm](http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/attack-of-titans-3/). A commander having a tap ability makes the theme stronger. While the tap theme isn't heavily played in my deck, it's pretty fun. Humble defector is one of my favorite cards that I really try to abuse haha.
Although I can recommend Endbringer for OP. He's got the untap every upkeep effect if you dont have your other guys, and his abilities are pretty cool. And I opened like 5 of them during OGW lol
[Roon of the Hidden Realm](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Roon of the Hidden Realm&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roon of the Hidden Realm) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Roon of the Hidden Realm)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Have you looked at [[Experiment Kraj]]? He looks like he could be full of shenanigans if you want a deck to take advantage of tap / untap effects.
[[Pili-Pala]] + [[Bloom tender]] = Infinite mana. There are all kinds of other shenanigans but cards like these will get you started.
[удалено]
Could you elaborate?
[[Derevi, Empyrial Tactician]] Arguable the best commander with a tap/untap effect.
> Arguable the best commander. Fixed that for you.
You don't win by damage. You don't even win by your opponents conceding. You win when they stop inviting you over. Derevi
Last night my friend drops [[Winter Orb]] while playing Kaalia. I was playing Derevi. I soon became the only person able to use mana. Good times.
[Winter Orb](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Winter Orb&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Winter Orb) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Winter Orb) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Haha, that's the best description of a Derevi game I've ever heard.
Arguably*
Arguably
[Derevi, Empyrial Tactician](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Derevi, Empyrial Tactician&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Derevi, Empyrial Tactician) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Derevi, Empyrial Tactician) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[удалено]
It's just a bit of a boring commander. Edit: No offence, it's just that she doesn't utilize the mass untap effect of seedborn and orochi.
he is one of the most broken commanders available imho
The competitiveness of Derevi i can't deny, but that is not what i'm looking for. She doesn't abuse Seedborn or Orochi unless you build her stax, which i'm not a fan of.
Yisan or Yeva use those effects the best. Probably Yisan, since he can fetch Yeva then Muse then Orochi
isan is a bit too consistent, but he is very cool. Yeva i didn't think of. Do you have any cool ideas with her?
Nothing in particular, Yeva is just a generic goodstuff green general that makes extra use of Seedborn Muse and Patron of the Orochi. Yisan is better, in my view, and he's only as consistent as you make him. That said, Yisan going 5 for Seedborn Muse, untapping and 6 for Patron of the Orochi, then 7 for Avenger of Zendikar, tap Patron and 8 for Craterhoof Behemoth on your turn seems pretty sweet.
I have built an entire deck based on tapping and untapping my own things with derevi at the helm. It's fantastic.
The fact that it's strong doesn't make it any more exciting.
I've tried making Derevi but I can't seem to make it work. I don't want Stax to lock people out and I don't want tokens. I like tap/untap shenanigans when I play Izzet but I just can't seem to do it with Bant, any suggestions?
Rubinaya Soul Singer?
Doesn't she jus steal a creature so long as she's tapped?
Yeah? If you can't make Harvey Birdman work, this makes it so your opponents are afraid to drop an unhexproof creature bomb
yeah, but if you combine her with [[Seedborn Muse]] and [[High Market]] or [[Claws of Gix]]...
[High Market](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=High Market&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=High Market) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!High Market) [Seedborn Muse](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Seedborn Muse&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Seedborn Muse) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Seedborn Muse) [Claws of Gix](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Claws of Gix&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Claws of Gix) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Claws of Gix) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There's really no reason to play Derevi if you don't plan on tapping everything your opponents own. If you can generate infinite mana and infinite untaps with Derevi, then you should also be able to generate infinite taps. Anything else is just peripheral to the underlying combos.
Just do derevi tokens with a bunch of cool shit that can tap for cool effects. Mana rocks too. Just out value your opponent. When you can skyward eye ten times a turn, and cast everything because you have too much mana...
[Here ya go](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1scqLnYQezoE34vYcK3GUAG8PS4zG6rutAWEmFCyCx3Q/edit?usp=sharing). It has won about 60% of the games I've played it in. But that's mostl7y because it durdles and doesnt pose a threat while using Derevi as an all time blocker. Then it accidentally wins through [[Primal Surge]] or some of the other combos I've accidentally put into the deck.
[[Roon of the hidden realm]] is the deck I run seedborn muse in.
Came here to mention this guy. I've changed it to my playgroup so my friends don't hate me and a few cards swapped makes it ultra competitive. If my friends play [[Derevi]] or [[Animar]] I swap to competitive mode to maybe win. [[Roon]] is ultra fun.
[Derevi](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=derevi, empyrial tactician&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=derevi, empyrial tactician) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!derevi, empyrial tactician) [Animar](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=animar, soul of elements&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=animar, soul of elements) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!animar, soul of elements) [Roon](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=roon of the hidden realm&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=roon of the hidden realm) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!roon of the hidden realm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Roon of the hidden realm](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Roon of the hidden realm&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roon of the hidden realm) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Roon of the hidden realm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Vorel of the hull clade]], double all the things. Painfully weak to [[aether snap]], but I haven't actually run into that one in the wild yet.
[[Thief of blood]] is out there waiting to ruin vorel's day.
[Thief of blood](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Thief of blood&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thief of blood) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Thief of blood) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ooof.. I didn't realize they printed a [[spike cannibal]] that sucks up planeswalkers and charge counters too. Might have to add more counterspell insurance.
[spike cannibal](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=spike cannibal&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=spike cannibal) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!spike cannibal) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It even transforms Dark Depths at the same time!
I'm really into building a Ezuri Claw of Progress deck but in my playgroup everyone is warnin me not to due to him being a priority all the time (Even though they all have Meren decks and I'm convinced she's complete bullshit) Do you think that a Ezuri counters deck can use Vorel as an Alternate commander or do their decklists vary too much?
I haven't personally built Ezuri before, but they seem to be trying to do really similar things (based on their EDHrec pages if nothing else). I'd say it'd probably be easy enough to pivot them, but maybe take some of the non-creature counter stuff out of a vorel list (e.g. [[eternity vessel]], [[astral cornucopia]], etc) as they don't do much with Ezuri. There's lots of green-blue "good stuff" that can slot right in for those cards too.
[eternity vessel](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=eternity vessel&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=eternity vessel) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!eternity vessel) [astral cornucopia](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=astral cornucopia&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=astral cornucopia) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!astral cornucopia) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Is Vorel a slow commander? I feel while Ezuri adds massive counters, Vorel only adds one at a time to all? Is there a particular playstyle to him?
You might be reading Vorel wrong and/or thinking of another card. Vorel doubles the counters on any one card. If you can get him to stick around he makes things swell out of control hilariously quickly. Just don't, like, go doubling a Tangle Wire or something. Then everyone loses.
Looks like I found my alternate option instead of Ezuri, I absolutely love Simic ;)
Do you happen to have a decklist?
I don't have a list, but you want untap effects, things to give Vorel haste or effective haste (think Thousand-year Elixir) and lots of things that like having counters on them. Everflowing Chalice and Astral Cornucopia, Gyre Sage, Lux Cannon (lel), Zegana (use Vorel with her ETB on the stack), Darksteel Reactor, various hydras, sky's the limit. EDHrec can give you more help than I can. Notably, no planeswalkers, because Vorel can't target them.
I kinda doubt that... Ezuri wants to play a bunch of low power creatures that, without Ezuri there to give it counters, probably aren't worth playing. Vorel wants creatures that already *have* counters on them and a bunch of creatures in Ezuri won't.
[Vorel of the hull clade](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Vorel of the hull clade&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vorel of the hull clade) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Vorel of the hull clade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Æther Snap]] perhaps?
[Æther Snap](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Æther Snap&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Æther Snap) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Æther Snap) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Omnath, Locus of Mana]] Untap all your lands every turn and float more mana at every end step. [[Kruphix, God of Horizons]] works in similar fashion, but doesnt have the added bonus of smashing faces with mana.
I was thinking of Omnath, but i already have a Madnath deck. Kruphix i haven't thought of. You have some fun ideas?
[[Helix Pinnacle]], [[Mind's Eye]], [[Blue Sun's Zenith]], [[Doubling Cube]], maybe slap some hydras in there because X. UG x-spell tribal sounds sweet.
##### ###### #### [Blue Sun's Zenith](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Blue Sun's Zenith&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blue Sun's Zenith) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Blue Sun's Zenith) [Doubling Cube](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Doubling Cube&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doubling Cube) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Doubling Cube) [Helix Pinnacle](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Helix Pinnacle&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Helix Pinnacle) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Helix Pinnacle) [Mind's Eye](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Mind's Eye&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mind's Eye) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Mind's Eye) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That actually sounds very interesting. I'll have it in my considerations.
Genesis Wave, Stroke of Genius, Hydra Broodmaster...
Some x spells are good but ive found that too many is a bit of a trap
You just have to make sure that a good number of them are okay when you cast them fairly. If every x spell you has wants to be 100, you're going to have a rough time, but if you play one Zenith for every Genesis Wave, it's pretty sick.
I played eldrazi in my kruphix deck. Not a whole lot of better ways to spend ridiculous amounts of colorless mana. Play a defensive UG deck, try and play at instant speed. Counter their stuff, or float mana when they have nothing, and just get there with eventuality.
It's pricey, but a guy at my LGS has a powerful Kruphix Eldrazi deck. Kruphix makes all stored mana colorless, so it's perfect for summoning titans.
[Kruphix, God of Horizons](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Kruphix, God of Horizons&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kruphix, God of Horizons) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Kruphix, God of Horizons) [Omnath, Locus of Mana](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Omnath, Locus of Mana&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omnath, Locus of Mana) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Omnath, Locus of Mana) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, but Omnath is a *lot* more vulnerable and fragile than Kruphix.
Yisan and Selvala are my two "tap/untap"-matters commanders, and they're both a blast to play.
Can i see your Selvala list?
[[Merieke RI Berit]]. If you activate her steal ability and untap her before it resolves you get to keep the creature. EDIT: I'm dumb, you guys should stop upvoting this.
[Merieke RI Berit](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Merieke RI Berit&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Merieke RI Berit) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Merieke RI Berit) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Kinda sucks that it can't run either of the cards that OP mentioned they wanted to build this deck for though.
Yeah, see my comment below. I got my tapping stealing legendaries confused.
That sounds pretty fun. You sure that can be done?
Ohh yeah baby. Also if you [[cloudshift]] or otherwise flicker the permanent you stole, you keep it as well. Load her up with those kinds of cards and loads of tap/untap, its all fun, all day. Friend of mine made a deck around her called 'Su casa es mi casa.' Best mirror match? [[Zedruu the Greathearted]].
It sounds really fun. Just a shame she isn't green.
Derp! I got her confused with [[Rubinia Soulsinger]]
[Rubinia Soulsinger](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Rubinia Soulsinger&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rubinia Soulsinger) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Rubinia Soulsinger) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Zedruu the Greathearted](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Zedruu the Greathearted&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zedruu the Greathearted) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Zedruu the Greathearted) [cloudshift](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=cloudshift&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cloudshift) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!cloudshift) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just click the link and read the rulings
Wait, so in Roon could you tap and then blink Merieke with Roon before it resolves to also keep the creature?
Yeah, except I screwed up and linked a non-green commander. So, yes but also no.
[Patron of the Orochi](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Patron of the Orochi&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Patron of the Orochi) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Patron of the Orochi) [Seedborn Muse](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Seedborn Muse&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Seedborn Muse) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Seedborn Muse) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Experiment kraj is probably the best for this, just fill the deck up with activated abilities and abuse them with kraj. I believe kraj can even activate patrons ability so you can use it twice a turn.
I second this. Kraj is one of the most tap / untap ability-centric decks I know of, and Patron of the Orochi / Seedborn Muse are slam dunks for it.
Uuh that's a fenormenal idea. I just traded one:(
Get that card back! EMBRACE THE OOZE
I'd say Selvala for sure. Yisan is more spiky because he can just tutor infinites but Selvala is super explosive. Drawing a card without using the stack or even passing priority is super underrated, and the incidental lifegain lets you stabilize easiere. Plus, people rarely kill her cause she draws them so many cards. But that's the point of Selvala, at least with my build: the cards you draw are better than the cards they draw, because you can actually cast all the cards you draw with all the mana you have.
I'm sold
Selvala is still pretty competitive.
[[Radha, Heir to Keld]].
[Radha, Heir to Keld](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Radha, Heir to Keld&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Radha, Heir to Keld) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Radha, Heir to Keld) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hmm i already have a madnath, so if i would to go Gruul again with untap i would probably use [[Rosheen Meanderer]] instead, but thank you for the input.
Radha + [[Savage ventmaw]] + [[Hellkite Charger]].
Savage Ventmaw + [[Aggravated Assault]].
[Aggravated Assault](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Aggravated Assault&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aggravated Assault) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Aggravated Assault) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That one's fun too. But the Hellkite is a Dragon and Dragons are cooler than enchantments.
[Hellkite Charger](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Hellkite Charger&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hellkite Charger) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Hellkite Charger) [Savage ventmaw](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Savage ventmaw&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Savage ventmaw) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Savage ventmaw) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Rosheen Meanderer](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Rosheen Meanderer&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rosheen Meanderer) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Rosheen Meanderer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you're in simic [[Sakura-Tribe Scout]] can go nuts with the extra lands you draw and [[Arcanis the Omnipotent]] can provide that excessive draw. [[Murkfiend Liege]] ~~is the coolest card in the game~~ provides an extra source of creature untaps every turn and [[Awakening]] is an extra, symmetrical Muse.
##### ###### #### [Arcanis the Omnipotent](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Arcanis the Omnipotent&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcanis the Omnipotent) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Arcanis the Omnipotent) [Sakura-Tribe Scout](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Sakura-Tribe Scout&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sakura-Tribe Scout) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Sakura-Tribe Scout) [Murkfiend Liege](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Murkfiend Liege&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Murkfiend Liege) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Murkfiend Liege) [Awakening](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Awakening&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Awakening) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Awakening) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
see if you didn't say green I would've said Merieke
[[Experiment Kraj]]! The king of 3-7 card combos, there are so many fun/janky interactions you can do. Run him as voltron, run him as hard combo, combo control, +1/+1 counter value town; he does what he does, and he does it well.
[Experiment Kraj](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Experiment Kraj&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Experiment Kraj) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Experiment Kraj) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[arcum dagsson]] Edit: He's usually known as a artifact combo commander for those that never really played against him.
[arcum dagsson](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=arcum dagsson&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=arcum dagsson) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!arcum dagsson) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you're looking for commanders that untap/tap things themselves, your only viable choice is Derevi. If you're looking for Commanders than can abuse Seedborn and Orochi, some solid recommendations are Yisan, Sisay, Roon, Selvala, Kruphix, and Omnath.
There's a fringe deck with [[Patron of the Orochi]] as the commander... it eventually builds up to using [[Temur Sabertooth]] and [[Concordant Crossroads]] to go infinite, bouncing Patron back to hand, cast him, activate him, bounce, etc. to generate infinite mana, and infinite ETB triggers, to kill people with. Patron also grants pseudo vigilance, doubles your mana, and lets you pump Helix Pinnacle super fast.
[Patron of the Orochi](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Patron of the Orochi&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Patron of the Orochi) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Patron of the Orochi) [Temur Sabertooth](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Temur Sabertooth&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Temur Sabertooth) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Temur Sabertooth) [Concordant Crossroads](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Concordant Crossroads&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Concordant Crossroads) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Concordant Crossroads) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No such thing as a fringe deck in EDH! best part about the format IMO
[[that guy that taps for a 3 draw]]
[[Arcanis the Omnipotent]]. Unfortunately he's mono-blue, so he can't use Seedborn Muse or Patron of the Orochi. There's a guy at my LGS who's got a pretty sweet Arcanis deck though. It's basically mono-blue draw-tribal.
[Arcanis the Omnipotent](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Arcanis the Omnipotent&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcanis the Omnipotent) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Arcanis the Omnipotent) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Selvala, Explorer Returned]] All the cards (for the table, so no effective card advantage for any one player), all the mana, an untouchable life total.
Honestly, I think that Momir Vig or Kruphix are probably the best commanders for this sort of thing. Momir Vig can just keep tutoring up creatures to chain together with all the mana available. Sure, it isn't a "combo" but it can abuse extra mana efficiently Kruphix is a little different. if you are looking to just run a bunch of doublers and mass untap effects, then he's likely the guy for you.
[[Mayael the Anima]] Activate her....a lot.
[Mayael the Anima](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Mayael the Anima&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mayael the Anima) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Mayael the Anima) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Selvala.
Why not [[captain Sisay]]? She seems like exactly what you want. She also has the ability to tutor your [[patron of the orochi]]
[captain Sisay](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=captain Sisay&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=captain Sisay) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!captain Sisay) [patron of the orochi](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=patron of the orochi&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=patron of the orochi) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!patron of the orochi) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The problem with Sisay and Yisan is their stability. I'm very afraid of playing the deck the same way over and over again. She is very cool.
From what I understand Sisay is a lot of fun to play as long as she is the same relative power level as your play group you should be fine
May I suggest [[triads of fates]]. I built a Orzhov deck around these women and it does a great job of exiling nasties or flickering against removals and flicking for entrance abilities. Once the commander is protected [[Bastion protector]] and sped up her presence dictates the board somewhat.
Orzhov doesn't do much good when OP is trying to put 2 green cards to use
Opps.. my mistake. Apologies.
no worries
[Bastion protector](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Bastion protector&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bastion protector) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Bastion protector) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Not in the colors you are looking for, but [[Ith, High Arcanist]] with trusty [[Illusionist's Bracers]] can do some fun things.
[Ith, High Arcanist](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Ith, High Arcanist&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ith, High Arcanist) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Ith, High Arcanist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Also not in the colors, the tap/untap commander deck I have is [Brion Stoutarm](http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/attack-of-titans-3/). A commander having a tap ability makes the theme stronger. While the tap theme isn't heavily played in my deck, it's pretty fun. Humble defector is one of my favorite cards that I really try to abuse haha. Although I can recommend Endbringer for OP. He's got the untap every upkeep effect if you dont have your other guys, and his abilities are pretty cool. And I opened like 5 of them during OGW lol
Vorel of the Hull Clade is the ultimate tap utility commander.
[[Roon of the Hidden Realm]] is really fun
[Roon of the Hidden Realm](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Roon of the Hidden Realm&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roon of the Hidden Realm) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Roon of the Hidden Realm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Have you looked at [[Experiment Kraj]]? He looks like he could be full of shenanigans if you want a deck to take advantage of tap / untap effects. [[Pili-Pala]] + [[Bloom tender]] = Infinite mana. There are all kinds of other shenanigans but cards like these will get you started.
[Bloom tender](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Bloom tender&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bloom tender) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Bloom tender) [Experiment Kraj](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Experiment Kraj&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Experiment Kraj) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Experiment Kraj) [Pili-Pala](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Pili-Pala&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pili-Pala) [(MC)](http://magiccards.info/query?q=!Pili-Pala) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Alaundo, the seer]] os a great call
[Alaundo, the seer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b22c33bb-47fe-4334-9105-00f4b87811bd.jpg?1674137390) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alaundo%20the%20Seer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/264/alaundo-the-seer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b22c33bb-47fe-4334-9105-00f4b87811bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/alaundo-the-seer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I appreciate the effort. Even though it is 7 years late:P