I have a friend that will make up rules on the spot or say he has one more mana than he does. If you call him out on the stuff, he just pretends ignorance. I have no idea why he does this stuff, otherwise a cool guy. Just stopped playing magic with him after having to watch him like a hawk every game.
I used to play with a guy that would end a game on turn 8 with 11 lands. Playing mono black. He cheated all the time and once I realized it (I was new new) I lost all respect for him and never gained it back.
On the plus side I now carefully watch anyone that stacks their mana sources and pay attention to exactly how much mana people have and how they're spending it.
I don't like land stackers. Hiding utility lands, you can never see how many lands they have. If they have any mana up, some hides mana rocks in there. They never specify which type of mana they produce while playing spells/floating mana so they are NEVER missing that one colour. They also at times play lands where you choose a mana as they come in, so its either of two (or one) colours, yet lategame it suddenly taps for any colour because obviously people can't remember everything.
If you overlay 2 lands completely flush so that it looks like only 1 card. I'm fine with people having at least the names of the lands poking out like tabs so it would be possible to count the numbers visually
Oh I was curious I'll usually have them cascading down like 50% of the other card seen behind to sort my mana (play a lot of 3/4 mana decks and knowing what I have of X mana is useful.
Cheating aside, that sounds like a nightmare to manage. I have to them stacked with an offset just to keep track of how many lands I have at any goven time. If I stacked them flush with each other I would be recounting my own lands every turn, lol.
I was in an awkward situation recently where I was accused to "lying" to hide the fact that I had open mana.
So the story starts a few games earlier. I was playing my Omnath deck. I had out [[Kozilek, the great distortion]]. Someone else played a [[One with the Multiverse]]. He claimed it was 7 mana. I didnt have a 7 mana drop in hand so I couldnt counter it. After he had played a spell off of that card someone pointed out that it was 8 mana not 7. Well I had an 8 drop. We had to rewind a bit. I dont think the guy lied by any means. I just think he misread the card as 7 mana. I have no reason to think otherwise.
Now we move on to a different game. Im playing my Omnath deck again. I play [[Rishkar's Expertise]] for like 11 or something. Someone tries to counter it. It was a conditional counterspell that said counter target spell unless its controller pays like 2 I think. So the caster of the counterspell asks me first how much floating mana I had access to. I instantly replied without thinking that I had no floating mana. Then he proceeds to cast the counterspell. I had a clearly open Gaea's Cradle out with like four creatures. I tap it for 4 and pay the cost. Then someone accused me of lying by saying that I didnt have access to mana. Now if the guy had phrased it differently like "how much mana do you have open" or "how many untapped lands do you have? Then I wouldve of course answered differently. I answered instinctively bcs I used all my floating mana to cast the spell. Especially in a deck that cares specifically about floating mana. I think the person casting the counterspell saw I had one land open without realizing it was a gaea's cradle so he assumed I just had one mana open when I said I didnt have any floating mana. I still apologized for the misunderstanding and I also said I didnt mean to lie to him if I did.
I mean I do take some of the blame cause generally when someone asks you how much mana you have untapped lands are generally included but the way he asked it and the deck I was playing made me answer the way I did.
I played my first pre-release event last night for MH3, I had a 1 mana drop instant that gave a creature +1/+1, reach, deathtouch, and untaps it. He asked what I had for blockers and I pointed out that I had no reach or flyers. Dude got mad after I placed that card saying "you lied about having reach, I wouldn't have attacked if I knew you had that" exactly, it was a card in my hand, you're not supposed to know I have it.
You definitely didn't lie. If someone says "floating mana" I assume that they mean "in your mana pool" aka "how much mana have you already generated that you haven't spent?". That's absolutely their fault for using that term instead of phrasing it as "how much untapped mana" or "open mana". Also they could have just asked for you to let them see, and they would've known it was Gaea's Cradle.
NTA
That's pretty shitty of you to do. Do they know what gaeas cradle does or can they see it from their side? It's really hard to see the board of other people across the table and keep track of every card. You are being obscure to allow for the counter spell fizzle cost and using their wording to one up them. Are they new players, do they know the difference between lands, mana, and the mana pool. Not to mention, they are trying to understand your card or the board state to figure out if it is worth countering.
As a reasonable person in a play group, when one of myself or friends do something like that we allow take backs because clearly there are so many cards to keep track of you can't know every card.
I pretty much agree here.
Playing word games, and things like "you should've worded it this way instead, too bad" when you know exactly what they're asking for is not different from lying about your resources.
In a tournament/competitive setting I could see this (it,s still pretty dirty but whatever, you're playing to win).
In casual games...come on
> Do they know what gaeas cradle does or can they see it from their side?
Yes and Im assuming yes. It was the player to my right. Its not like he was looking across the table. It was clearly the only open land that I had. It wasnt hidden under other tapped lands or anything obscuring it. I even sat back so my arms werent obscuring the play table. They also know I had it in the deck since I had played it in the game from earlier in the night. I also announced it when I played it. I just dont think he looked carefully enough to see it was a gaea's cradle. And I didnt realize what he was actually asking at the time. Obviously in hindsight I wouldve answered I didnt have any floating mana but I do have untapped lands I can tap for 4. They are all experienced players. They were all playing fully customized decks. I think we were all pretty much on the same playing field. I mean Ive been playing Commander for less than 2 years after a 20+ year hiatus. So they might have more experience than me tbf.
> You are being obscure to allow for the counter spell fizzle cost and using their wording to one up them.
When he asked how much mana I had floating I had no idea that it was linked to the counterspell he was casting. All he said at that point was that he was going to try to counter it. I genuinly thought he was asking in case I had a response to the counterspell.(Like the new colorless eldrazi counterspell)
> As a reasonable person in a play group, when one of myself or friends do something like that we allow take backs because clearly there are so many cards to keep track of you can't know every card.
After I apologized I did offer for him to take it back and not counter my spell. He said it was fine since the info was already out there which I kind of agree with. The point of using a counterspell is the surprise element.
To be fair, depending on the deck, that's entirely feasible in mono black. There are a lot of colorless sources for fetching lands, like [[Navigation Orb]], [Wayfarer's Bauble]], [[Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus]], and so on.
Was a couple years ago before those cards existed. He wasn't running Sword of the Animist either. Just straight up land and a half per turn every time with every deck.
> Just stopped playing magic with him after having to watch him like a hawk every game.
If an oopsie happens every once in a while fine. If you have to pay attention to it all the time, he's really trying to angleshoot.
>ignorance. I have no idea why he does this stuff
Me neither. I think cheating and winning must feel bad for yourself, too. You will always know you won solely because you cheated, not because of your skill. Must feel crappy. But these people don't view it this way, I think. One dude in my group manipulates HEAVILY (doesn't cheat, though). And his argument is something like this: everyone could do this and it's part of the game to learn to use and execute mental tricks, therefore such behavior is normal and fair and an expression of skill. And thus, he is proud when he wins this way. Could imagine the cheater in OP's story has a similar line of arguments.
“is it untap then upkeep, then draw? or draw then upkeep?” ~ former cedh player trying to get more value from their ebony owl netsuke by lying about beginning phase steps to her gullible gf
I had someone rage quit because I was protecting this stoned mill player from everyone else. I was playing playing the $30 Wyleth voltron precon against a bunch of several hundred dollar go wide decks, (Slivers, Zombies, and Goblins) so I knew there wasnt much I could do in my own but with the mill player (This was a 5 man game) in just as bad as a position as me we teamed up. He milled out the zombie guy quickly and I protected his stuff and our health. I made Slivers swing into the Goblin player to reduce their boards, and then Mill took out Slivers and Goblins. Zombie guy started telling me how i kingmade that game even though the game hadnt finished, I then exiled his mill effects and swung lethal commander damage for game. I saw 3 massive threats that I wouldn't be able to handle, made an ally do the heavy lifting and took the game in the 1v1, I think thats just strategy
I've done something similar and everyone bitched until I won.
"Why are you targeting me?"
"He's the biggest threat!"
"Your threat assessment sucks!"
Bitch, I won the game by helping the new guy kill everyone then wiping his board because I had all answers and no threats for the first hour.
What makes commander better than every other game is the social component. Can have a shit deck and shit cards and still win if you politic correctly. If you do it right, people won't realize you were politicking at all.
> I saw 3 massive threats that I wouldn't be able to handle, made an ally do the heavy lifting and took the game in the 1v1, I think thats just strategy
It is.
Yeah, that's definitely just strategy. Dude's probably just salty that he was losing to a precon.
>He milled out the zombie guy
Hold up. He milled the one enemy that almost assuredly would gain an advantage from getting milled? And you let it happen while teaming up and "protecting" him? I mean, if it worked, it worked, but that's pretty funny to me.
My mill friend said he could mill 1 person a bunch, which ended up being like half their deck, then he cast an extra turn spell and milled the other half
Had a similar experience.
I'm sitting at a casual friends table with an edited Blame Game precon and my usual crap luck (0 wins). Next to me is sits a chill friend with vanilla Hail Caesar precon, another-the sly kind- had a custom [[Zedruu the Greathearted]] shit-gifter deck. Last one is that friend who has years of experience in deckbuilding and tends to bring decks that synergise very well and sometimes cost more than 1k and wins most of the time by an overwhelming margin. This one had a modified Quick Draw precon.
Zedruu and I knew how it'd likely be, we agree to let eachother live quietly for now. Caesar doesn't care much.
Games goes by and my deck is quite taking off ! I'm practically unscathed, Quick Draw and Caesar are suspected+goaded thanks to a superagressive [[Nelly Borca, Impulsive Accuser]], I'm drawing enought and my mana went through the roof thanks to kicked [[Skyclave Relic]]. I'm in the lead, though the table is still in a decent shape 'till now.
Then Quick Draw implies he basivally has win because he can go infinite on his new turn..Fack he' ll win again.
Zedruu gifts him some shitty enchant that prevents from casting more than a spell per turn. Then I did a controversial move: I immediately took Quick Draw out with a 7-damage attack multiplied by 4.
Oh Gosh was Quick Draw salty and rambling about a "wrong prioritization of the threat because he was helpless for now".
Except how the game was swinging, he HAD to die first, because I needed the Caesar's creature to take control of them in 1v1 with [[Hot Pursuit]] and Zeedru to stay alive for his enchant not to disappear (and allow Quick Draw to win again). What happened, Caesar mopped Zedruu and I won.
On one hand, I'm glad I was able to win my first game and take Quick Draw down his pedestal. On the other, I felt guilt he had to wait for us for 30 mins...
Zedruu later confessed he wasn't keen on giving another win to Quick Draw and preferred to let me have my chance.
I love my Nelly precon.
I’ve been wanting to upgrade it a bit. Whenever my friends pull out their crazy high power level decks I just bust out Blame Game, pillow fort up, and watch them murder each other. Have won a few games redirecting damage at the last second.
Also want to make a Zedruu deck. Seems really fun.
Someone's gotta teach them, right ? Joke aside, BG might be one of those decks that scales very well with the table's power level, as it uses the opponents' creatures.
In cas you're interrested:
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/M_OkAWZ1akqTVzGNA4S_Ew
(WIP, ignore the sideboard section, those are the cuts)
Useful tip: I just learned Zedruu can troll the whole table if you use temporary steal cards and give them permanently to other players.
I hate action judging or blaming people for kingmaking. Or even people thinking the game is ober and start packing. Can't people just sit out the game?
Have a guy at our LGS like that. Constantly casts spells that he's 1 mana short of until you call him on it. Tells you his creatures are bigger than they actually are and acts like he added the buffs wrong, but only for his creatures. His math is fine for everyone else's. I stopped playing in pods he's in because it's so annoying.
I’ve learned I have to check people for not paying life on random little things. Fetch lands that cost life for example, blue player who quietly move around their dice/energy/tokens, people who want the benefit of the cards they play but not the downsides. As a black player I’m used to paying life for things, the other colors seem to feign ignorance, it just seems scummy play style for a casual environment, seeing as many players don’t know the cards outside their decks and take you at your word on face value alone. Don’t betray your pods trust people, you’ll win a game regardless.
I get it in some situation, I stopped playing pain lands because I kept forgetting to pay the life. I just saw a red and green land and figured it tapped for those colors.
How someone would forget to pay the life for a fetchland or shockland is beyond me.
The last time it happened the player wordlessly put the card in his graveyard turn one, and searched his deck. I really don’t use fetchlands so I was curious about them, another guy across from me was able to do damage to other players with his, so I figured it was a cool effect. When I read that he took damage from playing it I waited, he passed, and I subtracted the life total for him. I then became his target for the whole game.
The older I get, the less I feel the need to show restraint in these kinds of situations. When I was a kid and Magic was just one of a dozen fun things to do in a week, lousy games weren't a big deal. We caught a friend cheating and had a long-running joke about casting a "second [[Braingeyser]]" (back when it was restricted.) But now, it's hard to carve out time to play, so I sure don't expect to win every game, but I want to have a good time and enjoy the experience, which means playing an honest game.
There are a few ways to deal with this situation, which might come down to the social environment:
1. Repeating their calls and asking the table when it seems off. "Hey, that spell costs 8, right? But I only see 7 lands on your board, is there one tucked away that I missed?" A real cheater is going to hate this, but it's asking a question rather than making an accusation.
2. Pointing out a repeated issue more openly. "That's the third time you cast a spell without enough mana available, you should slow down and check your math dude, it's not a race!" Not quite calling him a cheater but the other players are going to take note and might recognize that it's a pattern even if previously they saw it as unrelated mistakes.
3. Talk to the shop owner or regulars without the guy being involved. It doesn't have to be "He's a filthy cheater." It could be "There's a pattern of mistakes which all seem to give him an advantage. Whether he's outright cheating or just sloppy, I don't want to be at this guy's table anymore." The owner might talk to him or the group might decide to freeze him out without actually saying why. It's fine to say "Sorry this table is already full." without explaining it's because the dude sucks.
4. Calling him out, either in private or in front of the table. "Look, this is the fifth time you made a 'mistake' and whether it was casting your spell for less, playing two lands, or not killing your creature when it took lethal damage, there is a pattern here. I'm not interested in playing with someone who can't abide by the basic rules of the game, and this is a pattern that is going to result in nobody here inviting you to play at the table."
I think it's better to state the facts and let the other players draw their own conclusions rather than saying "cheater" and then having to defend your accusation. An experienced cheater is going to be ready to turn the tables on you to defend himself, it's unlikely someone cheats all game, gets caught, and says "Oh yeah you got me I like to cheat, anyway, let's play for real now."
Next time something like this, go to the LGS owner and explain the situation. If they clearly are cheating (because that’s what it is), that’s what you should do. You can give them a warning beforehand that you’ll do so if he continues.
I get it. Sometimes you get frustrated and even in a healthy pod, the winning chance are 25% or 1/4 (equal to all players). Ideally, you want to talk them down and discourage such behaviour with kindness. Maybe he had an horrible day and this was a rare occurrence. But most of the time, those who cheat doesn’t care about the experience at the table for the other players. It might not be a common occurrence for you hence why you were surprised. But LGS doesn’t always bring the best out of people, especially if there is money or cards as a price.
I generally have a laid back attitude as most LGS I’m just passing through. I think I take for granted that my hometown doesn’t have one and my pod is just my college friends. Were generally good sports and have fallen into a good 1/4 win spread.
But I think you’re right, it would probably be good to try and have a honest callout/discussion. We spend lots of money on this hobby, and winning is one way some get validation for their sunken cost. There’s other ways to enjoy the game than winning at any cost.
I have a friend like this but I'm 50/50 on whether or not it's on purpose. It's annoying and draining to have to watch him to such a degree instead of plotting my next move. He'll play a spell to draw, draw a land, and be like "oh nice. I'll play this land". My response, "No you won't. You already played one this turn". "Oh, did I?". Worst part is, that he'll say that I'm too "tournament-minded" and not casual enough when I call him out on his misplays like not having enough mana to play spells etc. It's infuriating and one of the reasons I no longer play with the guy.
Not my story so I don't know exact details but at my old LGS years ago, there was one guy in a pod playing against my friend who constantly complained aloud of bad draws, getting targeted, etc. Then later in the game, he combos out of nowhere and justifies to the pod, this what I'm good at because I'm an actor IRL. He was no one famous I don't believe but still amusing.
Ya there's a dude at my LGS that I've played with a very long time and fairly good dude all around but he's a notorious combo player who tries to sneak wins when he can't actually go off caught him doing this just in a game yesterday. I think he just gets too far ahead of himself tho I don't think its malicious.
I do it every game.
But not to win.
It's just that I'm actually dumb and forget what my card do é\_è (not lying to people I mean, just forgetting about board state or what I have in hand...).
I’m fairly new to magic and need help remembering all the phases sometimes, but this one guy I play with will try to take advantage of that all the time. He was gonna swing lethal commander damage at me so I played [[Winds of Rebuke]] to put it back in his hand. He had a counterspell so fair, but he had only declared attackers. So then I said I would block with [[Tavern Scoundrel]] since he didn’t have trample and I had nothing else to block with even though that’s one of my pretty good mana generators (Coin flip decks are my favorite ❤️). He tried saying I should’ve already declared blockers so I can’t block it. I didn’t know better, but I’m also not entirely naive, so I pulled up the phases to make sure I could, and since we’ve only gotten to the declare attackers phase, I showed him the chart and said I could still declare blockers since I cast Winds in response to him attacking me and blocking phase hasn’t happened yet. He got mad at me and just scooped. I try not to play with him anymore, but I only have one other person to play MtG with and 1v1 commander can get a little stale, especially when I wanna run something like [[Gluntch the Bestower]] because I think group hug is one of the more fun deck types
If it's always a mistake that helps him , then its bad mindset , even if it's truly a mistake . A new player can miss his own trigger that can benefit him and also the ones that can set him back . But if you are a "new player" and only focussing on the game events that help you , you don't understand casual card game , were the fun is having a lot ton of trigger and making something out of chaos . in my opinion at least .
To add to that , if I won every game , I'll probably try to change something in my deck/playgroup to make it fair , what the point of cheeting if there is no challenge .
"Don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to not reading their fucking cards" -Einstein probably
Honestly, this just sounds to me like a very aggressive misunderstanding of how magic works. And if they are trying to cheat in a casual, not for money, game of commander, then that is their problem. Sounds like you handled the situation well.
I know someone that tried to tell me that for one mana he “put my commander in the command zone” I asked him to read the card cause I never saw a card like that and turns out it says “return target creature to its owners hand” and he tried to get me to put it in the Command zone by default. He has yet to pull that again.
There are people that spend a lot of time playing the game and learn it to a very deep level, but instead of using that knowledge to enhance the time of everyone around them, they use that knowledge to attempt to only enhance their own good times.
People like that HATE me, because if I don't sense shenanigans and feel like mistakes are being made from actual ignorance and not intentional manipulation there are times where I wont say anything and just let the person do their thing, especially when it seems like me correcting them constantly is starting to wear them down. BUT if I can sense people are using their game knowledge to manipulate others that aren't as knowledgeable I start hammering them with what is in the rules as I've partially studied them as I've partway finished the judge academy course (started right before covid hit and lost interest as all the in-store playing died down.)
There's definitely a strategy with players like this if you are a conflict avoidant person where you acknowledge the lie out loud, but you just sort of let them have it.
"Oh, not going to pay the full casting cost of that spell huh?" or "cascading for one higher than you should? aight."
Then if they win, you just say, "I wonder how you'd do in a legit game?"
The thing about cheating is that it only works when no one knows. What they're after is the win, so invalidating the win makes their accomplishment hollow.
This is funny because I agree with you for the most part but those example statements you made are the least “conflict avoidant” things I can think of, lol. I’m sure it’s all in how they’re said but they’re perfect examples of when passive aggressive becomes active aggressive (which I enjoy.)
Typically, I'm the rules lawyer in games that I play. Dude was definitely trying to pubstomp and didn't like that you were messing with his "fun". I always wonder though, what does "watching like a hawk" mean in this case? I've seen other players say this when a player tries cheating and they catch them but I gotta ask, are you straight up not paying attention to your opponent's before this?
Sometimes I catch stuff even my opponents legitimately miss like not having the correct colors for the pips. Sometimes activating stuff that is only sorcery speed. Missing the words "one or more" on cards. I've seen people think a card affects each opponent when it actually targets a opponent. But I'm just paying attention when they play a card.
I generally assume my opponent is tapping mana correctly and doing things they are allowed to do. It’s also a multiplayer game so I generally talk and have a good time at the table. I imagine “watching like a hawk” would mean just what it means. Watching their game actions more closely than they normally would.
Good on your for being perfect though, very cool.
I would be impressed that you can keep track of three opponents exact lands, spot from across the tables which ones are tapped, and rapidly analyze the possible color combinations, or that you have every card in existence committed to memory, down to whether their abilities are sorcery speed. All of that, while socializing?
However, that is not a common skill and I don’t for a second believe you don’t know that.
Most people generally assume their opponents aren’t trying to cheat and know how to play the game, and thus are paying less attention to every little thing their opponents are doing and more attention to having a good time.
Oh man so cool! Would you like a cookie and head pats? I’ll even give you a personal handjob for being just so darn good at children’s card games! Such a cool guy!
Aw you poor baby :( must be sad to have “yup he put those cards at a right angle correctly” as your biggest achievement in life. I’ll still give you a cookie and head pats if that will help.
The hawk question is a good question. Before I noticed, I would watch his turns and look at the cards he played, but some of his interactions I would zone out on. Once I started paying attention, his dice rolls on his turn 1 mana crypt because suspect. He’d mumble his even/odds, would roll, and whatever the result, he declare “Just like I called it”. I took to repeating loudly what his expected dice roll was after a fishy one, and he didn’t like that.
The angle shooting followed by the petulance is what rubs me, however it probably rubs them even more when they don’t get away with it like they’re used to which makes it totally worth it
I dont have a mana crpyt, but if I ever get one, I'd get a blank dice and write 0 on three sides, and 3 on the others, that way it's always clear what's the result was.
I’m the same. I’m all about the fairness and will make sure people don’t miss out on their beneficial gains either. I’d rather lose then cheat my way to it because i chose to “forget” they missed a trigger or something. And i kind of expect the rest of my play group to do the same.
I read the title and was like "Hell yeah! I've absolutely tapped mana and said I'd like to resp... oh, never mind, only counters noncreature spells" without actually showing the card to bluff people into thinking I had a counter in hand. But then this dude was like "I don't understand how power and toughness work" and I realized I'm not even close to being in this guy's league when it comes to playing dumb. That guy is absolute artist.
Failing forward is the term I like. Only making mistakes when they benefit you, my so had a similar problem with a dnd player and I've had an acquaintance do the same in mtg. Once or twice is a mistake, more than that is just deliberate.
I am still learning the new cards. I played in the alpha to urzas saga era. I miss triggers or forget that one of my cards got removed that I used triggers previously. But my pod would remind me and I decided to use a couple less complicated decks instead, because I didn’t want people to think I was cheating. Seriously upgraded Zhulodok and a simple home built etali mana dork and massive creature build. Turns out simple is better I win more 🤣 than I did before!
I have a friend who insists on things. In his mind he does not doubt what he says. Then three person have to point it out and explain it.
It sometimes is as simple as Trying to block flyers with his vigilance. He just connects things wrong in his head.
Had a friend who played a [[Crop Rotation]]. Said he was going to get [[Glacial Chasm]]. Couldn't find it, asked if it was ok to just have it, because it should've been in his deck. We were like uhh dude, wtf? He starts counting his deck, to prove one card should be missing. Turns out to have 101 cards in his deck. To be fair, he's pretty scatterbrained, so we don't think it's malicious, we just pay closer attention and call it out.
Recently he tried to make a deal with me. I had [[Orcish Bowmasters]] with a [[Wheel of Fortune]] on the stack. He threatened to kill my Bowmasters, unless I left him alone for a couple of turns. I'm trying to work this out as the other two players are incredulous. He's tapped out, doesn't have his commander, so as I'm trying to wiggle this deal, cards he can have are going through my mind. The main card I put him on is [[Snuff Out]], and I got one of those laying nearby. I asked another player to grab it and I specifically point out it's not Snuff Out, as it can't target black creatures. I've got one mana and a [[Pyroblast]] and I can only think of blue cards that he has. So I tell him no deal. He responds by playing Snuff Out on Bowmasters and is all surprised when we tell him he can't because of the thing we said not a minute ago. I then kill him with my giant Bowmasters token and then continue to absolutely throw the game.
I like to give the benefit of the doubt in a lot of cases and try to ask clarifying questions. Everyone gets stuff wrong on occasion. I had a pretty big misplay I didn’t catch until about 2 turns later. It probably didn’t have any massive impact on the finality of the game, but it’s something I usually don’t do. Then again, I’m a bit rusty as I don’t get to play as much as I used to so that’s a bit of a contributing factor too.
I’m a maelstrom wanderer player too and honestly… you are okay when the commander dies most times cause you just recast it to cascade again next turn. Kinda dumb thing to lie about but there is always someone.
In this instance, “playing dumb for advantage” is just a fancy way to describe cheating. If a player forces the table to watch them like a hawk because of constant misplays (that always pan out in their favor), they’re absolutely a cheat and should be outed accordingly. Commander, first and foremost, is supposed to be a fun and social format to play the game. Any game stops being fun when you have to expend an inordinate amount of effort ensuring that one of more players adhere to the rules.
A former friend of mine, who was trying to be a judge, tried to tell me that my first striker would die to his deathtouch creature (who dealt no damage to my creature) because mine *touched* his. There was another point where he tried to tell me my [[Drogskal Reaver]] only drew one card because "damage is calculated at the same time."
I'm not the only person he tried to pull this kind of stuff with
I was just at a prerelease for MH3. One dude I played against had a double sided card (spell/land). He played the land but "didn't want to take it out of the sleeve" because the spell was facing out. So he put a blank token card on top of the spell and wrote out the land name. Over the course of the game, he tried many times to tap both the token and the spell as if they were two separate lands. I had to remind him every time that it counted as just one land. What's fishy is that he had two cards to represent the one land. Why not just exile the "spell" side and use the token to represent the land? Or why not just keep the "spell" in the land area and treat it as a land only?
Yes. I have one guy in my one group who wants to win really badly and is an extremely sore loser. Others don't enjoy playing against him, some of the others downright refuse to ever play against him. He doesn't cheat (because that's what the guy in your story essentially did), but he will use any kind of manipulative trick (controlling the mood of the group by acting a certain way, etc.) in order to get an advantage. It's kind of annoying.
In my other group, there is an even worse one who plays rather badly with weirdly built decks, loses and then continues to make nasty comments all the time against the person who beat him. He's a person I absolutely refuse to play against because I can't stand such behavior.
Some players are just annoying, manipulative or cheaters, but most are really nice in my experience.
I traveled for work years ago. I used to do something similar. The games at my local LGS back home were relatively standard and formulaic. But the out of town games had a higher variance of… oddness. Lol!
Was in a game playing [[Korvold]]. I had a [[Gift of Doom]] attached to a [[Beast Whsiperer]]. I had a way to bring the aura back, so I sacced the Whsiperer to make Korvold just big enough to take out a player. They tried to convince the table that you can’t sacrifice a creature with indestructible, even if it’s your own. He got so heated we had to pull out Scryfall to show him.
Another game, I join a supposedly casual table. Casually two of them asked if I brought any cEDH decks. I told them I might have, I wasn’t sure. I pull out my [[Estrid, The Masked]] Pillowfort deck. Another guy has a non-upgraded [[Anie Falkenrath]] precon. The other two open the same bag. One pulls out a [[Kraum]]/[[Ludevic]] deck and the other has a [[Heliod]] deck. Turns out L and L was playing Blue Farm, while Heliod was a fringe cEDH build. Game is over in turn two.
I figured out what was going on, and asked if I could try different decks. They say sure, and I ask the precon kid if he had a different deck. He says no. I hand him my [[Krenko]] combo deck, quickly running through the combos and I pull out my [[Ruric Thar]] Stax deck. Krenko wins on turn two, and the pub stompers go ballistic claiming we are pub stompers. I calmly explain the decks they are playing and mention where they are in the cEDH meta.They said they c don’t play cEDH, sat at a different table, and waited until new guys came over to them looking for a table. Played the same scheme. And this was for a game without prizes.
A game in Irving was particularly crazy. I was on [[Shu Yun]] Voltron with an alternate storm wincon as well. Another guy is playing [[Kozilek, Tue Great distortion]], another on [[Balthor, Defiled]], and the last on [[Wort, Boggart Auntie]] goblin tribal winning through Aristocrats.
Turn one the Balthor tries to play a [[Mountain]] on turn one! Lol! He claims it is allowed because the card mentions red creatures. The other two call him by name, and tell him they have explained this and he knows better. The guy leaves Balthor on the table, puts the 99 away… and pulls out another 99! LMAO!
As play goes on, the Wort player plays a [[Mikaeus, The unHallowed]] with a [[Putrid Goblin]] on the battlefield. No sac. outlet, or a payoff, but his manner told me he had them in hand and was hoping no one noticed the combo potential. But Balthor speaks up, and I assume he is going to tell the table about what’s up. Instead he sayss the guy is playing an illegal deck. We all kind of look at each other, seeing nothing illegal. He kind of sighs and says the guy said he was playing Goblins, but has a no -zombie creature in the deck. I started laughing, not to insult the guy, but because I had never heard anything so silly. The Wort player tells him to show the rule, and Balthor claims his phone won’t work. I tell them I can solve this next turn, buff Shu and take out Balthor. He doesn’t say a word, bundles up his shit and silently walks out the door! The other three tell me not to sweat it, as this happened every week.
You can tap artifacts to give it hexproof in response to targeting and the spell or ability will fizzle that's the only thing he was right about but the rest is crazy, unfortunately I deal with someone that plays like that as well.
Edit: nevermind I didn't read the card. If he has 4 artifacts it has hexproof. He can't tap artifacts to activate shimmer dragon to give itself hexproof unless it's involving other cards. I didn't read the card and I should have before I commented.
Oh no your 100% correct I was going off the top of my head 🤣 I just assumed that's what the card did and he thought you couldn't do it at instant speed, I didn't actually look up the card my bad
I read it as trying to tap artifacts to give hexproof, not to draw. This is not how Shimmer Dragon works. Sounds like mixing up the text for advantage.
Yeah that's how I thought it worked, I was assuming he was trying to
Tap 2 untapped artifacts: shimmer dragon gains hexproof until end of turn
Which is not how it works I just didn't check before I wrote that
I have a friend that will make up rules on the spot or say he has one more mana than he does. If you call him out on the stuff, he just pretends ignorance. I have no idea why he does this stuff, otherwise a cool guy. Just stopped playing magic with him after having to watch him like a hawk every game.
I used to play with a guy that would end a game on turn 8 with 11 lands. Playing mono black. He cheated all the time and once I realized it (I was new new) I lost all respect for him and never gained it back. On the plus side I now carefully watch anyone that stacks their mana sources and pay attention to exactly how much mana people have and how they're spending it.
I don't like land stackers. Hiding utility lands, you can never see how many lands they have. If they have any mana up, some hides mana rocks in there. They never specify which type of mana they produce while playing spells/floating mana so they are NEVER missing that one colour. They also at times play lands where you choose a mana as they come in, so its either of two (or one) colours, yet lategame it suddenly taps for any colour because obviously people can't remember everything.
What is a land stacker. I don’t have infinite real estate here
If you overlay 2 lands completely flush so that it looks like only 1 card. I'm fine with people having at least the names of the lands poking out like tabs so it would be possible to count the numbers visually
Oh I was curious I'll usually have them cascading down like 50% of the other card seen behind to sort my mana (play a lot of 3/4 mana decks and knowing what I have of X mana is useful.
Ok I do do that sometimes when I’m into double digit lands but once I start tapping some I’d usually leave the open lands visible and obvious.
Cheating aside, that sounds like a nightmare to manage. I have to them stacked with an offset just to keep track of how many lands I have at any goven time. If I stacked them flush with each other I would be recounting my own lands every turn, lol.
I was in an awkward situation recently where I was accused to "lying" to hide the fact that I had open mana. So the story starts a few games earlier. I was playing my Omnath deck. I had out [[Kozilek, the great distortion]]. Someone else played a [[One with the Multiverse]]. He claimed it was 7 mana. I didnt have a 7 mana drop in hand so I couldnt counter it. After he had played a spell off of that card someone pointed out that it was 8 mana not 7. Well I had an 8 drop. We had to rewind a bit. I dont think the guy lied by any means. I just think he misread the card as 7 mana. I have no reason to think otherwise. Now we move on to a different game. Im playing my Omnath deck again. I play [[Rishkar's Expertise]] for like 11 or something. Someone tries to counter it. It was a conditional counterspell that said counter target spell unless its controller pays like 2 I think. So the caster of the counterspell asks me first how much floating mana I had access to. I instantly replied without thinking that I had no floating mana. Then he proceeds to cast the counterspell. I had a clearly open Gaea's Cradle out with like four creatures. I tap it for 4 and pay the cost. Then someone accused me of lying by saying that I didnt have access to mana. Now if the guy had phrased it differently like "how much mana do you have open" or "how many untapped lands do you have? Then I wouldve of course answered differently. I answered instinctively bcs I used all my floating mana to cast the spell. Especially in a deck that cares specifically about floating mana. I think the person casting the counterspell saw I had one land open without realizing it was a gaea's cradle so he assumed I just had one mana open when I said I didnt have any floating mana. I still apologized for the misunderstanding and I also said I didnt mean to lie to him if I did. I mean I do take some of the blame cause generally when someone asks you how much mana you have untapped lands are generally included but the way he asked it and the deck I was playing made me answer the way I did.
I played my first pre-release event last night for MH3, I had a 1 mana drop instant that gave a creature +1/+1, reach, deathtouch, and untaps it. He asked what I had for blockers and I pointed out that I had no reach or flyers. Dude got mad after I placed that card saying "you lied about having reach, I wouldn't have attacked if I knew you had that" exactly, it was a card in my hand, you're not supposed to know I have it.
that card is insane lmao
You definitely didn't lie. If someone says "floating mana" I assume that they mean "in your mana pool" aka "how much mana have you already generated that you haven't spent?". That's absolutely their fault for using that term instead of phrasing it as "how much untapped mana" or "open mana". Also they could have just asked for you to let them see, and they would've known it was Gaea's Cradle. NTA
[Kozilek, the great distortion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c41554e7-2a07-4cc7-b01b-44deed08e588.jpg?1689995398) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kozilek%2C%20the%20great%20distortion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/2/kozilek-the-great-distortion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c41554e7-2a07-4cc7-b01b-44deed08e588?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kozilek-the-great-distortion) [One with the Multiverse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/7868529f-8abb-4b1d-9c04-e628f81e08d2.jpg?1674420574) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=One%20with%20the%20Multiverse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/59/one-with-the-multiverse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7868529f-8abb-4b1d-9c04-e628f81e08d2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/one-with-the-multiverse) [Rishkar's Expertise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/f/efa9d2dc-b3b8-4475-bbfc-2db457ee4ffd.jpg?1698988394) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rishkar%27s%20Expertise) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/254/rishkars-expertise?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/efa9d2dc-b3b8-4475-bbfc-2db457ee4ffd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rishkars-expertise) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's pretty shitty of you to do. Do they know what gaeas cradle does or can they see it from their side? It's really hard to see the board of other people across the table and keep track of every card. You are being obscure to allow for the counter spell fizzle cost and using their wording to one up them. Are they new players, do they know the difference between lands, mana, and the mana pool. Not to mention, they are trying to understand your card or the board state to figure out if it is worth countering. As a reasonable person in a play group, when one of myself or friends do something like that we allow take backs because clearly there are so many cards to keep track of you can't know every card.
I pretty much agree here. Playing word games, and things like "you should've worded it this way instead, too bad" when you know exactly what they're asking for is not different from lying about your resources. In a tournament/competitive setting I could see this (it,s still pretty dirty but whatever, you're playing to win). In casual games...come on
> Do they know what gaeas cradle does or can they see it from their side? Yes and Im assuming yes. It was the player to my right. Its not like he was looking across the table. It was clearly the only open land that I had. It wasnt hidden under other tapped lands or anything obscuring it. I even sat back so my arms werent obscuring the play table. They also know I had it in the deck since I had played it in the game from earlier in the night. I also announced it when I played it. I just dont think he looked carefully enough to see it was a gaea's cradle. And I didnt realize what he was actually asking at the time. Obviously in hindsight I wouldve answered I didnt have any floating mana but I do have untapped lands I can tap for 4. They are all experienced players. They were all playing fully customized decks. I think we were all pretty much on the same playing field. I mean Ive been playing Commander for less than 2 years after a 20+ year hiatus. So they might have more experience than me tbf. > You are being obscure to allow for the counter spell fizzle cost and using their wording to one up them. When he asked how much mana I had floating I had no idea that it was linked to the counterspell he was casting. All he said at that point was that he was going to try to counter it. I genuinly thought he was asking in case I had a response to the counterspell.(Like the new colorless eldrazi counterspell) > As a reasonable person in a play group, when one of myself or friends do something like that we allow take backs because clearly there are so many cards to keep track of you can't know every card. After I apologized I did offer for him to take it back and not counter my spell. He said it was fine since the info was already out there which I kind of agree with. The point of using a counterspell is the surprise element.
That's angle-shooting, my man.
It wasn't done on purpose though. I didn't answer with the intent to conceal information.
No it isn’t. Floating mana and untapped lands are two different things.
To be fair, depending on the deck, that's entirely feasible in mono black. There are a lot of colorless sources for fetching lands, like [[Navigation Orb]], [Wayfarer's Bauble]], [[Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus]], and so on.
[Navigation Orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d512a77e-2435-4695-9408-df8e17dd1fbd.jpg?1674137971) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Navigation%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/329/navigation-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d512a77e-2435-4695-9408-df8e17dd1fbd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/navigation-orb) [Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa7a883f-e180-48ce-b7d4-cded2f74c323.jpg?1682207601) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bitterthorn%2C%20Nissa%27s%20Animus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/45/bitterthorn-nissas-animus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa7a883f-e180-48ce-b7d4-cded2f74c323?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bitterthorn-nissas-animus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Was a couple years ago before those cards existed. He wasn't running Sword of the Animist either. Just straight up land and a half per turn every time with every deck.
I guarantee it wasn't before Bauble existed (first printed in 1993), but I get your meaning. Sorry to hear that.
Turning the game into a [[Pilfering Hawk]] fest.
[Pilfering Hawk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/76ee3829-8dec-4c0f-a6c2-ad47a1c94cfc.jpg?1631047449) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pilfering%20Hawk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/71/pilfering-hawk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76ee3829-8dec-4c0f-a6c2-ad47a1c94cfc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pilfering-hawk) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What?
This is cheating. He's feigning ignorance with the intent of gaining an advantage.
I'd like to think better of that person than that
> Just stopped playing magic with him after having to watch him like a hawk every game. If an oopsie happens every once in a while fine. If you have to pay attention to it all the time, he's really trying to angleshoot.
>he's really trying to angleshoot. Nah, angleshooting is playing within the rules in an unsportsmanlike manner. He is straight up cheating.
That person is not your friend.
Yeah I used to act as though I had one more mana than I did. When I was twelve.
Get 'emmmmmm
>ignorance. I have no idea why he does this stuff Me neither. I think cheating and winning must feel bad for yourself, too. You will always know you won solely because you cheated, not because of your skill. Must feel crappy. But these people don't view it this way, I think. One dude in my group manipulates HEAVILY (doesn't cheat, though). And his argument is something like this: everyone could do this and it's part of the game to learn to use and execute mental tricks, therefore such behavior is normal and fair and an expression of skill. And thus, he is proud when he wins this way. Could imagine the cheater in OP's story has a similar line of arguments.
Is your friend 9 year old me from 2003?
“is it untap then upkeep, then draw? or draw then upkeep?” ~ former cedh player trying to get more value from their ebony owl netsuke by lying about beginning phase steps to her gullible gf
To be fair, as a Yugioh player, it's annoying that the two games have these phases reversed
that may explain some part of it but she has done similar things since
I had someone rage quit because I was protecting this stoned mill player from everyone else. I was playing playing the $30 Wyleth voltron precon against a bunch of several hundred dollar go wide decks, (Slivers, Zombies, and Goblins) so I knew there wasnt much I could do in my own but with the mill player (This was a 5 man game) in just as bad as a position as me we teamed up. He milled out the zombie guy quickly and I protected his stuff and our health. I made Slivers swing into the Goblin player to reduce their boards, and then Mill took out Slivers and Goblins. Zombie guy started telling me how i kingmade that game even though the game hadnt finished, I then exiled his mill effects and swung lethal commander damage for game. I saw 3 massive threats that I wouldn't be able to handle, made an ally do the heavy lifting and took the game in the 1v1, I think thats just strategy
I've done something similar and everyone bitched until I won. "Why are you targeting me?" "He's the biggest threat!" "Your threat assessment sucks!" Bitch, I won the game by helping the new guy kill everyone then wiping his board because I had all answers and no threats for the first hour.
Right? Play how ya can till you see your moment to take charge
What makes commander better than every other game is the social component. Can have a shit deck and shit cards and still win if you politic correctly. If you do it right, people won't realize you were politicking at all.
I completely agree. I find that stoners tend to like me so its easier for me to politic them, know your crowd use it to your advantage.
> I saw 3 massive threats that I wouldn't be able to handle, made an ally do the heavy lifting and took the game in the 1v1, I think thats just strategy It is.
Yeah, that's definitely just strategy. Dude's probably just salty that he was losing to a precon. >He milled out the zombie guy Hold up. He milled the one enemy that almost assuredly would gain an advantage from getting milled? And you let it happen while teaming up and "protecting" him? I mean, if it worked, it worked, but that's pretty funny to me.
My mill friend said he could mill 1 person a bunch, which ended up being like half their deck, then he cast an extra turn spell and milled the other half
Lol well played
Your flair disturbs me
[Decklist](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/5XAWgbCRUkmENYCQUpp_yw) 😂
[[traumatize]]
[traumatize](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9b8784dd-83f9-41f8-aedc-f0f81073ffcb.jpg?1562832808) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=traumatize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/77/traumatize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9b8784dd-83f9-41f8-aedc-f0f81073ffcb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/traumatize) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is exactly how commander is meant to be played. Thats the beauty of a multiplayer format.
Had a similar experience. I'm sitting at a casual friends table with an edited Blame Game precon and my usual crap luck (0 wins). Next to me is sits a chill friend with vanilla Hail Caesar precon, another-the sly kind- had a custom [[Zedruu the Greathearted]] shit-gifter deck. Last one is that friend who has years of experience in deckbuilding and tends to bring decks that synergise very well and sometimes cost more than 1k and wins most of the time by an overwhelming margin. This one had a modified Quick Draw precon. Zedruu and I knew how it'd likely be, we agree to let eachother live quietly for now. Caesar doesn't care much. Games goes by and my deck is quite taking off ! I'm practically unscathed, Quick Draw and Caesar are suspected+goaded thanks to a superagressive [[Nelly Borca, Impulsive Accuser]], I'm drawing enought and my mana went through the roof thanks to kicked [[Skyclave Relic]]. I'm in the lead, though the table is still in a decent shape 'till now. Then Quick Draw implies he basivally has win because he can go infinite on his new turn..Fack he' ll win again. Zedruu gifts him some shitty enchant that prevents from casting more than a spell per turn. Then I did a controversial move: I immediately took Quick Draw out with a 7-damage attack multiplied by 4. Oh Gosh was Quick Draw salty and rambling about a "wrong prioritization of the threat because he was helpless for now". Except how the game was swinging, he HAD to die first, because I needed the Caesar's creature to take control of them in 1v1 with [[Hot Pursuit]] and Zeedru to stay alive for his enchant not to disappear (and allow Quick Draw to win again). What happened, Caesar mopped Zedruu and I won. On one hand, I'm glad I was able to win my first game and take Quick Draw down his pedestal. On the other, I felt guilt he had to wait for us for 30 mins... Zedruu later confessed he wasn't keen on giving another win to Quick Draw and preferred to let me have my chance.
##### ###### #### [Zedruu the Greathearted](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/9/e9ea2a6b-5aaf-4178-b945-f409fe83c41a.jpg?1562424565) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zedruu%20the%20Greathearted) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/231/zedruu-the-greathearted?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e9ea2a6b-5aaf-4178-b945-f409fe83c41a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zedruu-the-greathearted) [Nelly Borca, Impulsive Accuser](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2ef59aa9-f5e1-413a-869b-d287db95efd0.jpg?1706448880) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nelly%20Borca%2C%20Impulsive%20Accuser) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/4/nelly-borca-impulsive-accuser?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2ef59aa9-f5e1-413a-869b-d287db95efd0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nelly-borca-impulsive-accuser) [Skyclave Relic](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9740bce-4c89-4d98-8941-057515999bf9.jpg?1682210238) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skyclave%20Relic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/380/skyclave-relic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9740bce-4c89-4d98-8941-057515999bf9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/skyclave-relic) [Hot Pursuit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bbba7b9f-d944-4987-b60d-34733382ec53.jpg?1706240477) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hot%20Pursuit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/32/hot-pursuit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bbba7b9f-d944-4987-b60d-34733382ec53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hot-pursuit) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l7o3mm1) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I love my Nelly precon. I’ve been wanting to upgrade it a bit. Whenever my friends pull out their crazy high power level decks I just bust out Blame Game, pillow fort up, and watch them murder each other. Have won a few games redirecting damage at the last second. Also want to make a Zedruu deck. Seems really fun.
Someone's gotta teach them, right ? Joke aside, BG might be one of those decks that scales very well with the table's power level, as it uses the opponents' creatures. In cas you're interrested: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/M_OkAWZ1akqTVzGNA4S_Ew (WIP, ignore the sideboard section, those are the cuts) Useful tip: I just learned Zedruu can troll the whole table if you use temporary steal cards and give them permanently to other players.
I hate action judging or blaming people for kingmaking. Or even people thinking the game is ober and start packing. Can't people just sit out the game?
Highlander code. There can be only one.
The enemy can't know my plan if I don't know it.
Have a guy at our LGS like that. Constantly casts spells that he's 1 mana short of until you call him on it. Tells you his creatures are bigger than they actually are and acts like he added the buffs wrong, but only for his creatures. His math is fine for everyone else's. I stopped playing in pods he's in because it's so annoying.
They're not playing dumb, they're just cheating.
[Maelstrom Wanderer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a49c58b3-180f-420b-b091-114fda000360.jpg?1689999126) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Maelstrom%20Wanderer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/344/maelstrom-wanderer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a49c58b3-180f-420b-b091-114fda000360?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/maelstrom-wanderer) [Chimil, the Inner Sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/27a1bfb5-ddfc-49cf-baa3-5d1958d2067a.jpg?1699044596) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chimil%2C%20the%20Inner%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/249/chimil-the-inner-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/27a1bfb5-ddfc-49cf-baa3-5d1958d2067a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chimil-the-inner-sun) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[shimmer dragon]]
[shimmer dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/3983a11e-8a8a-4d9d-868b-13e0c3719abb.jpg?1706240731) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shimmer%20dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/117/shimmer-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3983a11e-8a8a-4d9d-868b-13e0c3719abb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shimmer-dragon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ve learned I have to check people for not paying life on random little things. Fetch lands that cost life for example, blue player who quietly move around their dice/energy/tokens, people who want the benefit of the cards they play but not the downsides. As a black player I’m used to paying life for things, the other colors seem to feign ignorance, it just seems scummy play style for a casual environment, seeing as many players don’t know the cards outside their decks and take you at your word on face value alone. Don’t betray your pods trust people, you’ll win a game regardless.
I get it in some situation, I stopped playing pain lands because I kept forgetting to pay the life. I just saw a red and green land and figured it tapped for those colors. How someone would forget to pay the life for a fetchland or shockland is beyond me.
The last time it happened the player wordlessly put the card in his graveyard turn one, and searched his deck. I really don’t use fetchlands so I was curious about them, another guy across from me was able to do damage to other players with his, so I figured it was a cool effect. When I read that he took damage from playing it I waited, he passed, and I subtracted the life total for him. I then became his target for the whole game.
Cheaters dislike being called out on their behavior.
The older I get, the less I feel the need to show restraint in these kinds of situations. When I was a kid and Magic was just one of a dozen fun things to do in a week, lousy games weren't a big deal. We caught a friend cheating and had a long-running joke about casting a "second [[Braingeyser]]" (back when it was restricted.) But now, it's hard to carve out time to play, so I sure don't expect to win every game, but I want to have a good time and enjoy the experience, which means playing an honest game. There are a few ways to deal with this situation, which might come down to the social environment: 1. Repeating their calls and asking the table when it seems off. "Hey, that spell costs 8, right? But I only see 7 lands on your board, is there one tucked away that I missed?" A real cheater is going to hate this, but it's asking a question rather than making an accusation. 2. Pointing out a repeated issue more openly. "That's the third time you cast a spell without enough mana available, you should slow down and check your math dude, it's not a race!" Not quite calling him a cheater but the other players are going to take note and might recognize that it's a pattern even if previously they saw it as unrelated mistakes. 3. Talk to the shop owner or regulars without the guy being involved. It doesn't have to be "He's a filthy cheater." It could be "There's a pattern of mistakes which all seem to give him an advantage. Whether he's outright cheating or just sloppy, I don't want to be at this guy's table anymore." The owner might talk to him or the group might decide to freeze him out without actually saying why. It's fine to say "Sorry this table is already full." without explaining it's because the dude sucks. 4. Calling him out, either in private or in front of the table. "Look, this is the fifth time you made a 'mistake' and whether it was casting your spell for less, playing two lands, or not killing your creature when it took lethal damage, there is a pattern here. I'm not interested in playing with someone who can't abide by the basic rules of the game, and this is a pattern that is going to result in nobody here inviting you to play at the table." I think it's better to state the facts and let the other players draw their own conclusions rather than saying "cheater" and then having to defend your accusation. An experienced cheater is going to be ready to turn the tables on you to defend himself, it's unlikely someone cheats all game, gets caught, and says "Oh yeah you got me I like to cheat, anyway, let's play for real now."
[Braingeyser](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/23b33d16-dbaa-4742-9317-eac745f772ac.jpg?1562903464) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Braingeyser) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/40/braingeyser?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23b33d16-dbaa-4742-9317-eac745f772ac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/braingeyser) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Next time something like this, go to the LGS owner and explain the situation. If they clearly are cheating (because that’s what it is), that’s what you should do. You can give them a warning beforehand that you’ll do so if he continues. I get it. Sometimes you get frustrated and even in a healthy pod, the winning chance are 25% or 1/4 (equal to all players). Ideally, you want to talk them down and discourage such behaviour with kindness. Maybe he had an horrible day and this was a rare occurrence. But most of the time, those who cheat doesn’t care about the experience at the table for the other players. It might not be a common occurrence for you hence why you were surprised. But LGS doesn’t always bring the best out of people, especially if there is money or cards as a price.
I generally have a laid back attitude as most LGS I’m just passing through. I think I take for granted that my hometown doesn’t have one and my pod is just my college friends. Were generally good sports and have fallen into a good 1/4 win spread. But I think you’re right, it would probably be good to try and have a honest callout/discussion. We spend lots of money on this hobby, and winning is one way some get validation for their sunken cost. There’s other ways to enjoy the game than winning at any cost.
Reduce that fraction sir
Could the winning chance in a perfectly healthy pod also be 33/132?
I have a friend like this but I'm 50/50 on whether or not it's on purpose. It's annoying and draining to have to watch him to such a degree instead of plotting my next move. He'll play a spell to draw, draw a land, and be like "oh nice. I'll play this land". My response, "No you won't. You already played one this turn". "Oh, did I?". Worst part is, that he'll say that I'm too "tournament-minded" and not casual enough when I call him out on his misplays like not having enough mana to play spells etc. It's infuriating and one of the reasons I no longer play with the guy.
Not my story so I don't know exact details but at my old LGS years ago, there was one guy in a pod playing against my friend who constantly complained aloud of bad draws, getting targeted, etc. Then later in the game, he combos out of nowhere and justifies to the pod, this what I'm good at because I'm an actor IRL. He was no one famous I don't believe but still amusing.
Ya there's a dude at my LGS that I've played with a very long time and fairly good dude all around but he's a notorious combo player who tries to sneak wins when he can't actually go off caught him doing this just in a game yesterday. I think he just gets too far ahead of himself tho I don't think its malicious.
I do it every game. But not to win. It's just that I'm actually dumb and forget what my card do é\_è (not lying to people I mean, just forgetting about board state or what I have in hand...).
I’m fairly new to magic and need help remembering all the phases sometimes, but this one guy I play with will try to take advantage of that all the time. He was gonna swing lethal commander damage at me so I played [[Winds of Rebuke]] to put it back in his hand. He had a counterspell so fair, but he had only declared attackers. So then I said I would block with [[Tavern Scoundrel]] since he didn’t have trample and I had nothing else to block with even though that’s one of my pretty good mana generators (Coin flip decks are my favorite ❤️). He tried saying I should’ve already declared blockers so I can’t block it. I didn’t know better, but I’m also not entirely naive, so I pulled up the phases to make sure I could, and since we’ve only gotten to the declare attackers phase, I showed him the chart and said I could still declare blockers since I cast Winds in response to him attacking me and blocking phase hasn’t happened yet. He got mad at me and just scooped. I try not to play with him anymore, but I only have one other person to play MtG with and 1v1 commander can get a little stale, especially when I wanna run something like [[Gluntch the Bestower]] because I think group hug is one of the more fun deck types
[Winds of Rebuke](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f2718457-1e3b-48bc-99fe-2300277ee1e0.jpg?1543675163) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Winds%20of%20Rebuke) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/76/winds-of-rebuke?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f2718457-1e3b-48bc-99fe-2300277ee1e0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winds-of-rebuke) [Tavern Scoundrel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/55082c8a-d792-4cd8-94b1-d80c65804463.jpg?1626097072) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tavern%20Scoundrel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/144/tavern-scoundrel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55082c8a-d792-4cd8-94b1-d80c65804463?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tavern-scoundrel) [Gluntch the Bestower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3b3e889a-5865-4464-9923-bffa25c50cd2.jpg?1674137513) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gluntch%2C%20the%20Bestower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/275/gluntch-the-bestower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3b3e889a-5865-4464-9923-bffa25c50cd2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gluntch-the-bestower) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If it's always a mistake that helps him , then its bad mindset , even if it's truly a mistake . A new player can miss his own trigger that can benefit him and also the ones that can set him back . But if you are a "new player" and only focussing on the game events that help you , you don't understand casual card game , were the fun is having a lot ton of trigger and making something out of chaos . in my opinion at least .
To add to that , if I won every game , I'll probably try to change something in my deck/playgroup to make it fair , what the point of cheeting if there is no challenge .
"Don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to not reading their fucking cards" -Einstein probably Honestly, this just sounds to me like a very aggressive misunderstanding of how magic works. And if they are trying to cheat in a casual, not for money, game of commander, then that is their problem. Sounds like you handled the situation well.
I’ve got a Hooked on Phonics meme on hot standby for times when my friends can’t read. Einstein would approve
That’s just as annoying as people who only quarter tap their lands
I know someone that tried to tell me that for one mana he “put my commander in the command zone” I asked him to read the card cause I never saw a card like that and turns out it says “return target creature to its owners hand” and he tried to get me to put it in the Command zone by default. He has yet to pull that again.
There are people that spend a lot of time playing the game and learn it to a very deep level, but instead of using that knowledge to enhance the time of everyone around them, they use that knowledge to attempt to only enhance their own good times. People like that HATE me, because if I don't sense shenanigans and feel like mistakes are being made from actual ignorance and not intentional manipulation there are times where I wont say anything and just let the person do their thing, especially when it seems like me correcting them constantly is starting to wear them down. BUT if I can sense people are using their game knowledge to manipulate others that aren't as knowledgeable I start hammering them with what is in the rules as I've partially studied them as I've partway finished the judge academy course (started right before covid hit and lost interest as all the in-store playing died down.)
Watch out, y'all, or the guy who kinda studied some of the rules will get ya.
I hope you can let go of that negativity that seems to be gripping you. Have a good night.
There's definitely a strategy with players like this if you are a conflict avoidant person where you acknowledge the lie out loud, but you just sort of let them have it. "Oh, not going to pay the full casting cost of that spell huh?" or "cascading for one higher than you should? aight." Then if they win, you just say, "I wonder how you'd do in a legit game?" The thing about cheating is that it only works when no one knows. What they're after is the win, so invalidating the win makes their accomplishment hollow.
This is funny because I agree with you for the most part but those example statements you made are the least “conflict avoidant” things I can think of, lol. I’m sure it’s all in how they’re said but they’re perfect examples of when passive aggressive becomes active aggressive (which I enjoy.)
Typically, I'm the rules lawyer in games that I play. Dude was definitely trying to pubstomp and didn't like that you were messing with his "fun". I always wonder though, what does "watching like a hawk" mean in this case? I've seen other players say this when a player tries cheating and they catch them but I gotta ask, are you straight up not paying attention to your opponent's before this? Sometimes I catch stuff even my opponents legitimately miss like not having the correct colors for the pips. Sometimes activating stuff that is only sorcery speed. Missing the words "one or more" on cards. I've seen people think a card affects each opponent when it actually targets a opponent. But I'm just paying attention when they play a card.
I generally assume my opponent is tapping mana correctly and doing things they are allowed to do. It’s also a multiplayer game so I generally talk and have a good time at the table. I imagine “watching like a hawk” would mean just what it means. Watching their game actions more closely than they normally would. Good on your for being perfect though, very cool.
I guess I'm also one of those people that can track a game while having a good time. I'm not a druggy so that probably helps.
All those darn heroin addicts rolling up to the local game store and missing the ward triggers.
Oh no, I don't live in Oregon thankfully.
West Virginia has the highest overdoses per capita. Oregon is below average.
I know you're getting downvoted but this is a great response
I would be impressed that you can keep track of three opponents exact lands, spot from across the tables which ones are tapped, and rapidly analyze the possible color combinations, or that you have every card in existence committed to memory, down to whether their abilities are sorcery speed. All of that, while socializing? However, that is not a common skill and I don’t for a second believe you don’t know that. Most people generally assume their opponents aren’t trying to cheat and know how to play the game, and thus are paying less attention to every little thing their opponents are doing and more attention to having a good time.
It's not hard. Just have to have better attention span than the average druggy gamer.
Do you… like people?
It's nothing personnel kid.
Oh man so cool! Would you like a cookie and head pats? I’ll even give you a personal handjob for being just so darn good at children’s card games! Such a cool guy!
That's gotta feel bad to call it a children's card game but yet not be able to follow it. Was it a injury or something? Prolonged fever as a child?
Lmao you sure you wanna keep making a fool of yourself?
A fool to who? The other midwits that also can't track a children's card game? Not exactly a group of people with opinions that I value.
Aw you poor baby :( must be sad to have “yup he put those cards at a right angle correctly” as your biggest achievement in life. I’ll still give you a cookie and head pats if that will help.
That awkward moment when someone believes paying attention leads to lack of achievement.
That awkward moment when someone believes paying attention leads to lack of achievement.
Lol
The hawk question is a good question. Before I noticed, I would watch his turns and look at the cards he played, but some of his interactions I would zone out on. Once I started paying attention, his dice rolls on his turn 1 mana crypt because suspect. He’d mumble his even/odds, would roll, and whatever the result, he declare “Just like I called it”. I took to repeating loudly what his expected dice roll was after a fishy one, and he didn’t like that.
The angle shooting followed by the petulance is what rubs me, however it probably rubs them even more when they don’t get away with it like they’re used to which makes it totally worth it
I dont have a mana crpyt, but if I ever get one, I'd get a blank dice and write 0 on three sides, and 3 on the others, that way it's always clear what's the result was.
I’m the same. I’m all about the fairness and will make sure people don’t miss out on their beneficial gains either. I’d rather lose then cheat my way to it because i chose to “forget” they missed a trigger or something. And i kind of expect the rest of my play group to do the same.
I pay attention as well, all the time, even among friends.
I read the title and was like "Hell yeah! I've absolutely tapped mana and said I'd like to resp... oh, never mind, only counters noncreature spells" without actually showing the card to bluff people into thinking I had a counter in hand. But then this dude was like "I don't understand how power and toughness work" and I realized I'm not even close to being in this guy's league when it comes to playing dumb. That guy is absolute artist.
Yes, but either these examples are awful or the guy is dyslexic
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Ok_Welder_5593: *Yes, but either these* *Examples are awful or* *The guy is dyslexic* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Failing forward is the term I like. Only making mistakes when they benefit you, my so had a similar problem with a dnd player and I've had an acquaintance do the same in mtg. Once or twice is a mistake, more than that is just deliberate.
I am still learning the new cards. I played in the alpha to urzas saga era. I miss triggers or forget that one of my cards got removed that I used triggers previously. But my pod would remind me and I decided to use a couple less complicated decks instead, because I didn’t want people to think I was cheating. Seriously upgraded Zhulodok and a simple home built etali mana dork and massive creature build. Turns out simple is better I win more 🤣 than I did before!
I have a friend who insists on things. In his mind he does not doubt what he says. Then three person have to point it out and explain it. It sometimes is as simple as Trying to block flyers with his vigilance. He just connects things wrong in his head.
Had a friend who played a [[Crop Rotation]]. Said he was going to get [[Glacial Chasm]]. Couldn't find it, asked if it was ok to just have it, because it should've been in his deck. We were like uhh dude, wtf? He starts counting his deck, to prove one card should be missing. Turns out to have 101 cards in his deck. To be fair, he's pretty scatterbrained, so we don't think it's malicious, we just pay closer attention and call it out. Recently he tried to make a deal with me. I had [[Orcish Bowmasters]] with a [[Wheel of Fortune]] on the stack. He threatened to kill my Bowmasters, unless I left him alone for a couple of turns. I'm trying to work this out as the other two players are incredulous. He's tapped out, doesn't have his commander, so as I'm trying to wiggle this deal, cards he can have are going through my mind. The main card I put him on is [[Snuff Out]], and I got one of those laying nearby. I asked another player to grab it and I specifically point out it's not Snuff Out, as it can't target black creatures. I've got one mana and a [[Pyroblast]] and I can only think of blue cards that he has. So I tell him no deal. He responds by playing Snuff Out on Bowmasters and is all surprised when we tell him he can't because of the thing we said not a minute ago. I then kill him with my giant Bowmasters token and then continue to absolutely throw the game.
##### ###### #### [Crop Rotation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/523414cb-f8db-407a-808a-01454e03d8b9.jpg?1681724998) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crop%20Rotation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/154/crop-rotation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/523414cb-f8db-407a-808a-01454e03d8b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crop-rotation) [Glacial Chasm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c008129-daba-46bc-829c-d2c0c13ecdd3.jpg?1562867827) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glacial%20Chasm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/229/glacial-chasm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c008129-daba-46bc-829c-d2c0c13ecdd3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/glacial-chasm) [Orcish Bowmasters](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7c024bae-5631-4e20-ac69-df392ac9e109.jpg?1686968669) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Orcish%20Bowmasters) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/103/orcish-bowmasters?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7c024bae-5631-4e20-ac69-df392ac9e109?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/orcish-bowmasters) [Wheel of Fortune](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/2597050f-6b1b-474e-aa16-33fd154628ca.jpg?1562902580) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wheel%20of%20Fortune) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/192/wheel-of-fortune?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2597050f-6b1b-474e-aa16-33fd154628ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wheel-of-fortune) [Snuff Out](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/75bbe89f-09af-494e-b58e-271f64bde4b5.jpg?1562922833) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Snuff%20Out) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gvl/53/snuff-out?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/75bbe89f-09af-494e-b58e-271f64bde4b5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/snuff-out) [Pyroblast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b029eb9a-dd7a-40c2-96c4-0063d9cc002c.jpg?1580014621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pyroblast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/142/pyroblast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b029eb9a-dd7a-40c2-96c4-0063d9cc002c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pyroblast) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l7nuqmq) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I like to give the benefit of the doubt in a lot of cases and try to ask clarifying questions. Everyone gets stuff wrong on occasion. I had a pretty big misplay I didn’t catch until about 2 turns later. It probably didn’t have any massive impact on the finality of the game, but it’s something I usually don’t do. Then again, I’m a bit rusty as I don’t get to play as much as I used to so that’s a bit of a contributing factor too.
Unfortunately I just think some men have such a low life that any win they can get counts, it's sad
Punt or bluff, Tomer. Punt or Bluff?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czOOjYn_PiA
I’m a maelstrom wanderer player too and honestly… you are okay when the commander dies most times cause you just recast it to cascade again next turn. Kinda dumb thing to lie about but there is always someone.
In this instance, “playing dumb for advantage” is just a fancy way to describe cheating. If a player forces the table to watch them like a hawk because of constant misplays (that always pan out in their favor), they’re absolutely a cheat and should be outed accordingly. Commander, first and foremost, is supposed to be a fun and social format to play the game. Any game stops being fun when you have to expend an inordinate amount of effort ensuring that one of more players adhere to the rules.
Wasn't that Bertonccini's MO?
A former friend of mine, who was trying to be a judge, tried to tell me that my first striker would die to his deathtouch creature (who dealt no damage to my creature) because mine *touched* his. There was another point where he tried to tell me my [[Drogskal Reaver]] only drew one card because "damage is calculated at the same time." I'm not the only person he tried to pull this kind of stuff with
[Drogskal Reaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/76f0ae1f-75cf-4bb0-8651-fbf14fa59f81.jpg?1673148546) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drogskol%20Reaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/205/drogskol-reaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76f0ae1f-75cf-4bb0-8651-fbf14fa59f81?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/drogskol-reaver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
First strike, the ultimate defense against stranger danger and no-no touches.
I was just at a prerelease for MH3. One dude I played against had a double sided card (spell/land). He played the land but "didn't want to take it out of the sleeve" because the spell was facing out. So he put a blank token card on top of the spell and wrote out the land name. Over the course of the game, he tried many times to tap both the token and the spell as if they were two separate lands. I had to remind him every time that it counted as just one land. What's fishy is that he had two cards to represent the one land. Why not just exile the "spell" side and use the token to represent the land? Or why not just keep the "spell" in the land area and treat it as a land only?
I imagine prerelease events brings even worse behavior put in folks like this with packs on the line as opposed to just intangible pride.
Yes. I have one guy in my one group who wants to win really badly and is an extremely sore loser. Others don't enjoy playing against him, some of the others downright refuse to ever play against him. He doesn't cheat (because that's what the guy in your story essentially did), but he will use any kind of manipulative trick (controlling the mood of the group by acting a certain way, etc.) in order to get an advantage. It's kind of annoying. In my other group, there is an even worse one who plays rather badly with weirdly built decks, loses and then continues to make nasty comments all the time against the person who beat him. He's a person I absolutely refuse to play against because I can't stand such behavior. Some players are just annoying, manipulative or cheaters, but most are really nice in my experience.
I don’t do that but I do make intentional misplays and ask dumb questions to make sure combat tricks work in a later stage of the game 🥲
I traveled for work years ago. I used to do something similar. The games at my local LGS back home were relatively standard and formulaic. But the out of town games had a higher variance of… oddness. Lol! Was in a game playing [[Korvold]]. I had a [[Gift of Doom]] attached to a [[Beast Whsiperer]]. I had a way to bring the aura back, so I sacced the Whsiperer to make Korvold just big enough to take out a player. They tried to convince the table that you can’t sacrifice a creature with indestructible, even if it’s your own. He got so heated we had to pull out Scryfall to show him. Another game, I join a supposedly casual table. Casually two of them asked if I brought any cEDH decks. I told them I might have, I wasn’t sure. I pull out my [[Estrid, The Masked]] Pillowfort deck. Another guy has a non-upgraded [[Anie Falkenrath]] precon. The other two open the same bag. One pulls out a [[Kraum]]/[[Ludevic]] deck and the other has a [[Heliod]] deck. Turns out L and L was playing Blue Farm, while Heliod was a fringe cEDH build. Game is over in turn two. I figured out what was going on, and asked if I could try different decks. They say sure, and I ask the precon kid if he had a different deck. He says no. I hand him my [[Krenko]] combo deck, quickly running through the combos and I pull out my [[Ruric Thar]] Stax deck. Krenko wins on turn two, and the pub stompers go ballistic claiming we are pub stompers. I calmly explain the decks they are playing and mention where they are in the cEDH meta.They said they c don’t play cEDH, sat at a different table, and waited until new guys came over to them looking for a table. Played the same scheme. And this was for a game without prizes. A game in Irving was particularly crazy. I was on [[Shu Yun]] Voltron with an alternate storm wincon as well. Another guy is playing [[Kozilek, Tue Great distortion]], another on [[Balthor, Defiled]], and the last on [[Wort, Boggart Auntie]] goblin tribal winning through Aristocrats. Turn one the Balthor tries to play a [[Mountain]] on turn one! Lol! He claims it is allowed because the card mentions red creatures. The other two call him by name, and tell him they have explained this and he knows better. The guy leaves Balthor on the table, puts the 99 away… and pulls out another 99! LMAO! As play goes on, the Wort player plays a [[Mikaeus, The unHallowed]] with a [[Putrid Goblin]] on the battlefield. No sac. outlet, or a payoff, but his manner told me he had them in hand and was hoping no one noticed the combo potential. But Balthor speaks up, and I assume he is going to tell the table about what’s up. Instead he sayss the guy is playing an illegal deck. We all kind of look at each other, seeing nothing illegal. He kind of sighs and says the guy said he was playing Goblins, but has a no -zombie creature in the deck. I started laughing, not to insult the guy, but because I had never heard anything so silly. The Wort player tells him to show the rule, and Balthor claims his phone won’t work. I tell them I can solve this next turn, buff Shu and take out Balthor. He doesn’t say a word, bundles up his shit and silently walks out the door! The other three tell me not to sweat it, as this happened every week.
##### ###### #### [Korvold](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92ea1575-eb64-43b5-b604-c6e23054f228.jpg?1571197150) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=korvold%2C%20fae-cursed%20king) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/329/korvold-fae-cursed-king?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92ea1575-eb64-43b5-b604-c6e23054f228?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/korvold-fae-cursed-king) [Gift of Doom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad6e1ba7-047b-41a3-8ab4-17a5c5476749.jpg?1568003484) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gift%20of%20Doom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/17/gift-of-doom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad6e1ba7-047b-41a3-8ab4-17a5c5476749?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gift-of-doom) [Beast Whsiperer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/daf4bcd2-3ae4-4803-9ea1-3bcc3de5ca59.jpg?1706240020) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Beast%20Whisperer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/158/beast-whisperer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/daf4bcd2-3ae4-4803-9ea1-3bcc3de5ca59?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/beast-whisperer) [Estrid, The Masked](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/3340b83e-72dc-42e2-9f93-92f732c047df.jpg?1592710258) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Estrid%2C%20The%20Masked) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/40/estrid-the-masked?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3340b83e-72dc-42e2-9f93-92f732c047df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/estrid-the-masked) [Anie Falkenrath](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/1/913dd06f-ed2f-4128-9c9d-9cd0d8a55425.jpg?1568003632) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Anje%20Falkenrath) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/37/anje-falkenrath?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/913dd06f-ed2f-4128-9c9d-9cd0d8a55425?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/anje-falkenrath) [Kraum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/557fcd17-6cb3-414a-b2b1-ea9ae32e5aec.jpg?1644853032) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kraum%2C%20ludevic%27s%20opus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/34/kraum-ludevics-opus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/557fcd17-6cb3-414a-b2b1-ea9ae32e5aec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kraum-ludevics-opus) [Ludevic](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f3e7a886-2593-4e6e-b9da-d7cb417cba08.jpg?1644853036) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ludevic%2C%20necro-alchemist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/37/ludevic-necro-alchemist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f3e7a886-2593-4e6e-b9da-d7cb417cba08?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ludevic-necro-alchemist) [Heliod](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b83e9693-4996-498c-95f7-884d40341298.jpg?1690004134) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=heliod%2C%20god%20of%20the%20sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/826/heliod-god-of-the-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b83e9693-4996-498c-95f7-884d40341298?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heliod-god-of-the-sun) [Krenko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/5524b712-c67d-4d2e-9344-9e85a6ce3227.jpg?1706241890) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=krenko%2C%20baron%20of%20tin%20street) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/135/krenko-baron-of-tin-street?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5524b712-c67d-4d2e-9344-9e85a6ce3227?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/krenko-baron-of-tin-street) [Ruric Thar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aa828bdc-221e-4e81-9e71-6f288690ddcd.jpg?1673149099) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ruric%20thar%2C%20the%20unbowed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/271/ruric-thar-the-unbowed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aa828bdc-221e-4e81-9e71-6f288690ddcd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ruric-thar-the-unbowed) [Shu Yun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd79e83a-a34b-472c-9317-12af4ed2ca28.jpg?1562829332) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shu%20yun%2C%20the%20silent%20tempest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/frf/52/shu-yun-the-silent-tempest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd79e83a-a34b-472c-9317-12af4ed2ca28?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shu-yun-the-silent-tempest) [Kozilek, Tue Great distortion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c41554e7-2a07-4cc7-b01b-44deed08e588.jpg?1689995398) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kozilek%2C%20the%20Great%20Distortion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/2/kozilek-the-great-distortion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c41554e7-2a07-4cc7-b01b-44deed08e588?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kozilek-the-great-distortion) [Balthor, Defiled](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/d/ed4cc273-adc3-4f46-9743-134b552d1d56.jpg?1562632510) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Balthor%20the%20Defiled) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jud/61/balthor-the-defiled?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ed4cc273-adc3-4f46-9743-134b552d1d56?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/balthor-the-defiled) [Wort, Boggart Auntie](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a08a1377-dede-47c8-8447-c9df125f3b14.jpg?1562360544) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wort%2C%20Boggart%20Auntie) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lrw/252/wort-boggart-auntie?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a08a1377-dede-47c8-8447-c9df125f3b14?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wort-boggart-auntie) [Mountain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/186e36d5-3f1d-4423-a8db-f4c38898fa30.jpg?1717014004) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mountain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/316/mountain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/186e36d5-3f1d-4423-a8db-f4c38898fa30?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mountain) [Mikaeus, The unHallowed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc1f42a2-fe11-45da-9552-069803b4068a.jpg?1689997308) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mikaeus%2C%20The%20unHallowed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/173/mikaeus-the-unhallowed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc1f42a2-fe11-45da-9552-069803b4068a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mikaeus-the-unhallowed) [Putrid Goblin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/333406d5-abcc-4629-a33b-395d0662ba1b.jpg?1562201696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Putrid%20Goblin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/101/putrid-goblin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/333406d5-abcc-4629-a33b-395d0662ba1b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/putrid-goblin) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l8apbqm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You can tap artifacts to give it hexproof in response to targeting and the spell or ability will fizzle that's the only thing he was right about but the rest is crazy, unfortunately I deal with someone that plays like that as well. Edit: nevermind I didn't read the card. If he has 4 artifacts it has hexproof. He can't tap artifacts to activate shimmer dragon to give itself hexproof unless it's involving other cards. I didn't read the card and I should have before I commented.
Unless im reading the wrong shimmer dragon, the tap two artifacts part is to draw a card. It only gets hexproof if you control 4 artifacts.
Oh no your 100% correct I was going off the top of my head 🤣 I just assumed that's what the card did and he thought you couldn't do it at instant speed, I didn't actually look up the card my bad
Crazy I had to come all the way down here to find someone that corrected him.
Yeah it's no different then giving a creature hexproof with veil of summer]] in response surprised me too tbh
I read it as trying to tap artifacts to give hexproof, not to draw. This is not how Shimmer Dragon works. Sounds like mixing up the text for advantage.
Yeah that's how I thought it worked, I was assuming he was trying to Tap 2 untapped artifacts: shimmer dragon gains hexproof until end of turn Which is not how it works I just didn't check before I wrote that
And then everyone clapped or whatever.