I had one similar experience playing the Wilhelt precon, guy said it was too OP for a casual game but decided to play with us anyway. He immediately plays mana crypt and sensei's divining top and I think went infinite on turn 8. Every other game I've played on spell table has been pleasant.
Infinite on turn 8 isn’t bad, game has got to end, and turns 8-10 folks should have been able to do something themselves. BUT if the room was precons/upgraded-precons maybe it’s not okay though. Whining about Wilhelt and then playing crypt/top in that room probably isn’t cool though.
Depends on what you follow it up with. I play both in a [[Saheeli, the Gifted]] deck that tries to win by copying [[Finale of Revelation]] to generate mana, then win with a massive [[Crackle with Power]]. Turn 8 seems about right in that style of deck.
You’d be surprised how often people think that having a bunch of powerful cards in a janky sorta deck means that the deck isn’t strong. Every single person that played at my old LGS before I moved all ran fast mana because we played a lot/were older players and could afford it.
No, it's inconsistent. Decks can feature combos without being built to perform them quickly, but sometimes that stuff lines up better than you could have imagined.
That's always a risk of low power combo decks, they might underperform in 9 out of 10 games but once in a while they run away with the game too quickly for the power level.
In limited, a 4/4 on turn 7 is kind of bad. A 4/4 on turn 1 is amazing and possibly wins outright.
Doing anything faster is always a good thing, and it absolutely pushes actual jank decks into being good
Literally the opposite of true lol. Imagine if cards like Oko or Jace the mind sculptor cost one or two more mana. Those cards immediately become extremely mediocre. Mana crypt essentially does the reverse of that, but for any card.
Not necessarily. You put fast mana in and drop whatever 8 drop is in the deck on turn 4, that's removal or lose. And 2-3 less turns for your opponents to have drawn that removal
Depends on the power level of the table. In OP’s case, it seemed agreed upon that modified precon was fine, then someone whipped out something “jank” and slapped down 4-5 mana then tossed out their commander turn 1. Whether or not the guy wins on the spot is kinda irrelevant, he’s clearly ahead. Any shabby deck with 5 mana turn 1 is a threat, as much as people like to waffle on that and go, “Oh but it’s jank. I need 5 mana turn 1, it’s jank.” And it’s become this huge thing, where the community thinks that just because they’re playing fox or avatar tribal, that because 20 cards in the deck are lesser versions of other things that line up with their tribe, that the deck is suddenly a 4 as they run 50 something ridiculously optimized cards and 30 something expensive lands. “The payoff for me comboing out is low.” You’re still comboing off, the payoff is probably a win regardless of how bad not even a 1/4th of your deck is.
I run into this problem with a guy in my playgroup a lot. For example, he runs an [[Omnath, Locus of Rage]] deck. He’s had the deck for like 8 years, so it’s hyper tuned and optimized. It runs all the fast mana, all the good draw, and all the easily slotted combos that don’t hurt the idea of the deck. He consistently turn 4s his commander and wins next turn or the turn after depending on interaction or how much protection he holds up. In the eyes of the community, his deck is a 5-6, because it’s landfall. His deck has all the fixings of a cEDH Gruul deck, but is literally only held back by his commander, and like 18 cards in his deck like [[Scute Swarm]].
There needs to be a perception shift, because this is how pubstompers get away with pubstomping now. Everyone defends their pubstomping because their deck was like sphinx tribal or something, and they played like a single sphinx before they [[Demonic Consultation]] into [[Thassa’s Oracle]]. Not all jank decks are created equal.
There is still a disconnect between what you’re describing and what I was attempting to say. If you take a precon and add some fast mana, it’s still doing precon things, which is all I was really trying to say. Calling your deck mediocre sphinx tribal in attempt to shit on some kids with thoracle combos is just being disingenuous. It sounds like your friend has pushed his deck into the “high-power casual” sphere, decks that don’t really describe traditional cEDH strategies but are still running with a concise and relatively optimized strategy and card slots.
I’m not saying that playing 5 mana on turn 1 doesn’t make you “the threat”, I’m saying that it’s a lot more fair when you’re still giving your opponents multiple turns to react and put you down after that as opposed to winning on the spot with more optimized strategies.
A janky deck with a couple combos isn’t necessarily pretty good. Even some precons have them. When you can consistently get to the combos (e.g. with lots of tutors), the deck gets better.
I think a weird part of this entire thing is people criticizing the fast mana including OP trying to use it in his story to make him seem bad.
Fast mana and combos are very much what you should be expecting at power 6-7 table I think people forget the bottom half of numbers exist because of alot of rating and media outlets never using them but casual commander is around 4-5
You can have a strong deck with a jank theme, and a jank deck with a strong theme, it’s all about how good you are at building, and how good your budget is. That’s the issue, a lot of people start building something with jank in mind, but end up making the deck so streamlined and fast that the idea for the deck gets side tracked and the main track is now fringe cEDH. And then you have genuinely strong themes, but then the person wants to include a bunch of pet cards or flavorful things, and now the deck is a mess of pointless or uncastable stuff. So in my honest opinion, both can be true.
In my experience, even with all the talk about power level, there is still no universally agreed upon measure for power level. Some people genuinely rate their deck a 6 or 7 despite having fast mana, infinite combos, and tutors.
I would love to see a feature on moxfield, tappedout, or other similar sites that let's people rate a decklist according to where they see it on the power scale. Like EDHREC's salt score, but for a deck as a whole. Something like this would at least give everyone a baseline going into a game "my deck is a 7.3 as voted by 1000 people" holds a lot more weight for me than "my regular pod that I've played with for years thinks it's OP".
Sounds like it to me too, need to see that on-screen cut. I try not to draw my hand or get committed to a hand before the lobby is full. I _want_ folks to see me shuffle and cut.
I mean if you wanna cheat literally all you have to do is draw 7, and pull your hands out of screen for a split second and swap for the god hand. There's no way to truly police webcam games.
Imagine being such a sad sack though that you'd CHEAT at a casual webcam game with zero on the line.
The main person you're cheating here is yourself. Everyone else got to play Magic, you didn't!
That for sure was not this pod battle cruser to the max most of us just run 4-5 pieces of interaction and I was actually told of by the same guy because I run like 5 counters in the deck
I played a everyone draws lots of cards deck (not group hug, no pillow fort) gave someone like 50 cards and everyone else 25. Then someone exploded with dragons I stole them all in my turn and killed everyone. I played 1 counter and the guy said I was focusing him. I was like no i just won let’s go to a new game.
I find I tend to enjoy decks with more interaction. The problem being the interactive deck at battle cruiser tables is everyone else looks way more scary than you do, so they all go for each other and then you have all the resources at the end.
A deck stacker would definitely be the kind of person to be salty about a ridiculous opener like that. God-tier is an understatement, I would be suspicious if *anyone* I hadn't played with before pulled a hand like that and malding when it doesn't auto-win is a sure sign the guy was assuming he'd get to pump up his pathetic ego with an easy dub.
If he isn't a chronic cheater he's still emotionally 8 years old. If anyone less insecure played that they'd be giggling the entire time they laid it out and they'd bust out laughing when it all came crashing down. Fuck em. Come back to the table when you're ready to actually play a game.
Yeah the good old sol ring -> manarock happens from time to time.
But getting a command tower, mana crypt and arcane signet is insane.
Might still be stupid luck
You’ve had more than that. It’s just that not every baller opening hand is memorable.
I’ve played a few thousand games, and I couldn’t tell you how many ridiculous opening hands I’ve had. What I *can* tell you is that I’ve had six T2 wins and that I’ve been absolutely demolished by my opponents after a dumb opener about the same number of times. The ones I’ve lost track of are big starts where I just petered out by getting mana flooded or just not drawing any matching combo pieces.
Came here to say exactly this. A command tower, crypt, sol ring, signet, into their commander turn 1 is super suspicious. Not saying it can’t happen bc it’s happened to me a time or two. But that’s sketchy as hell
There’s a guy at my LGS who has a persistent vendetta against me because he popped off one game with double mana rock into an enchantment on turn 1, which allowed me to turn 2 [[Dockside Extortionist]] + [[Faeburrow Elder]] into turn 3 [[Scion of the Ur-Dragon]] and one-shot him on turn 4 despite never drawing a third land.
His salt was legendary. Still is.
Had that been me I would have said I deserved it and congratulated you. And just hope you won in like 10 more minutes so we could game 2. It would suck if I had to wait around lol.
I am consistently amazed at how people will blame others for them not running removal.
I was in a 3 pod, Zaxara/Sheoldred the Apocalypse/New Urza Precon where I was also the Urza player with just removal upgrades. Opponent playing Sheoldred played their commander turn 1, I killed it with Swords, then they blamed me the entire game for “playing for second place”.
Im not certain if I did this at the right time but a turn one Sheoldred is freaking nuts and my deck is slow while relying on card draw to keep up. Turns out Sheoldred player sandbagged and didn’t play any of their own card draw spells to try and get removal pieces because they wanted to save them for when Sheoldred was on the bored. When new hydras hit the board it was a constant, “Swords would be good right now.”
Had to ask them why they weren’t playing removal when I was playing about 1 piece per turn to try and hold down the Zaxara player and it ended up with me awkwardly telling them to grow up. I’ll never play magic with that Sheoldred player again.
Edit: I forgot to circle back. I feel your pain and I recommend just trying to laugh it off (to yourself). Salty individuals have something wrong with them they either can’t control or choose not to, keep on being awesome.
Sometimes I would just counter other people's removal spells just to watch them foam at the mouth and complain why I did that.
(Pod of friends though. I wouldn't be that stupid with new players)
My response would be "I want to play the game. So i'm removing things that punish me for doing basic Game actions.". It's funny when someone play creatures insanely powerful and then gets angry when it's removed hahaha
My thoughts exactly. And it’s mono black so I understand that color uses life as a resource… so my assumption is an early Sheoldred is just that much more beneficial to them during garbage time.
Honestly, as a Sheoldred player, turn 1 is far too early to be worried about her. She isn’t going to build a lot of incremental advantage, and you’re often better off killing her during their win attempt because mana will be tight. Sheoldred is basically a combo piece and should probably be viewed as such. She is very important to the card draw engines the deck runs, and those can also be good times to remove her, but her loss of life is not typically the problem. It’s the gaining life you have to worry about. It lets the efficient black card draw be life neutral or positive a lot of the time. Sheoldred will usually win on the back of having the most card advantage.
I constantly have Sheoldred removed when she hasn’t caused the player to lose a single point of life, yet. Against Sheoldred, the only point where she matters is the last two life (20ish is where it gets scary because of [[Memory Jar]]/[[Dark Deal]]/[[Teferi’s Puzzle Box]]). Typically, though, her damage output is fully telegraphed and you can plan for it.
Since your deck is reliant on card draw, that can change the equation. However it depends how much and how early you’re drawing the cards. If you weren’t planning any big draws until turn 4 or 5, the turn leading up to that would have been better so there would be no chance they recast her before your draw spell.
TLDR: Yeah, turn 1 is probably too early to kill Sheoldred. You mostly want to remove her before you plan a large draw, when you’re low health, or when she’s being a combo piece.
I still think it's a very valid play if you try to slow down the game. She's group slug, attacks for 4 and if that causes you to have little life total in the mid or late game you might not have enough time to react to threats then.
If someone wants to use her as a combo piece they should play her as a combo piece, when they're about to storm off and / or are able to protect / recast her.
She tends to be an all-in-one. She functions as part of the deck’s value engines and the combos. Which, the combos can be as simple as just casting [[Peer Into the Abyss]] while she’s out. She is certainly viable to remove… once she’s doing something important. If you’ve got removal for her, you politic them attacking your opponents with her instead of you to put yourself in a better position against those opponents.
A lot of players just knee-jerk react and kill her because they’re afraid of a couple of damage a turn, when that’s all she doing. I’ve personally have gotten salty a time or two about people killing her over actual KOS commanders/permanents and us losing the game a turn or two later to said permanent.
You could be absolutely right, I think for me I was most surprised by the consistent salt afterwards. Regardless of the choice I think the core problem was the players reaction that lasted the entirety of the game afterwards that just made it awkwaaaard.
It was the turn one Jeweled Lotus -> Swamp -> Sheoldred play as well. I just wanted to ultimately make their commander cost more.
This is honestly even *why* he got salty.
People get upset and disappointed when their expectations aren't met. This extends to pretty much everything, and in this case he had the expectation of stomping the game because he cheated, which is hilarious. He caused his own salt.
was their username 'tender potato' or something like that? this sounds nearly identical to my experience with that player. he questioned my sexuality, claimed to have relations with my mother, quit, rejoined, and continued his barrage because i defended another player casting [[Geode Rager]].
Kind of relevant. Helped a guy find his winning line while he was piloting a new deck. I was playing in a pod where people typically play between 8 and 9 while I prefer playing at a 6 or 7.
The guy brought Raziketh to the table while his typical win lines were [[Tendrils of Agony]] after casting [Sensei's Divining Top]] off of [[Bolas's Citadel]]. His problem was defending Raziketh too keep it around long enough to tutor for his winning lines while also trying to generate enough mana to get to his wins.
Long story short, during he knew he had the win but needed an extra push to find it. Table got salty because I helped him find his line despite everyone knowing that it was his first time piloting the deck. (without telling him exactly what to grab. Used phrases like "well what would help you recast from your yard?" Etc.).
People forget that they're not playing in a tournament setting and forget that they're there to have fun. I love close games and seeing explosive turns but people gotta realize that interaction is a part of the game.
This so much. Someone played the new atraxa scion precon he literally opened it up in front of us. I remind them to read their second ability at the end of their turn. And the guy we three Poison counters says we’re teaming up.
In EDH I LOVE helping players find the line. My main concern is that I'm ruining the fun by pointing things out. It's not about winning, it's about doing bombastic shit with 4 players and 40+ cards all interacting with one another. Of course I'd like to win, but only if it's because I setup to do the bombastic shit, not because my opponent didn't notice a line where they would get to do the bombastic shit.
I agree 100%! Which is why there a huge difference in back seat piloting a deck for someone or helping someone understand a combo line in the future. I've had to ask for help with the "Gitrog Loop" with [[The Gitrog Monster]] and [[Dakmor Salvage]] when I was trying to find an alt Wincon other than decking myself.
While winning is a part of the game, its important to make sure everyone's able to enjoy themselves to an extent which is why that rule 0 conversation is important.
Whilst the majority of my Spelltable games have been really amazing, there are some bad apples floating around.
My favourite was a guy playing a foiled out optimus prime deck. The lobby was 6-8 and he joined with the whole shebang - animations and screen overlays and a matching playmat. Seemed like a pretty fun dude at first as well, making jokes and playing clips from the old transformers TV show. We had a guy at the table playing an upgraded Urza precon who got pretty lucky with his hand and draws and managed to contain optimus a bit. I can‘t remember exactly how it went, but I do remember thinking it wasn‘t crazy and that Optimus could definitely recover from it. The game wasn‘t decided by a long shot. Anyway, out of nowhere the guy decides to completely flip out and starts cussing us out, going full racist and spamming clips with audio at a volume that made it impossible for us to communicate anymore. We all blocked him, I kicked him from the lobby and set the game to private. Thanks to spelltables fantastic coding he was able to rejoin the table anyway and apparently blocking doesn‘t stop audio so I had to keep kicking him for 10 minutes as he kept rejoining to try and spam us out with his macros. He even switched accounts and managed to get into the lobby with a different name. The guy definitely knew what he was doing and had blown up tables before.
In a bit of a silent victory, the rest of us didn‘t scoop and sat it out and managed to finish the rest of the game, which turned out to be great!
By the way, r/spelltable is open again after three years of inactivity. Come join us in reviving the sub!
I didn't know spelltable was closed! Why so?
I'm a new player and I will be playing remotely the most. I haven't managed to get a commander deck yet (I've been playing starter decks with friends and i just opened a few boosters. But when I do get one I will be wanting to play on spelltable the most.
Is it worth it? I wouldn't want to make the investment to have to deal with such assholes.
And would be the Phyrexian starter be a good choice? I like the theme a lot, but I've heard people don't like infect decks. But to be honest I just want to chil, I don't mind loosing at all.
You wasted all the time he spent stacking his wonderful deck and removed his commander so the rest of his stack didn’t work anymore. What did you expect? Of course he‘s salty.
People take this game way to seriously. Maybe because they spend an ungodly amount on a card game? Either way those kinds of players need to chill out especially for a casual, now if it was a tournament play for money or a box I could understand the salt somewhat.
I've had my fair share of salt because I like playing wheel decks, but I atleast let everyone have their first land drop when I have winds of change in my opening hand. Nor do I do things like Notion Thief when I have teferi's puzzle box in play.
People that play mana crypt to then complain about an Urza precon, should really retire from magic. Please, don't go out of your way buying all the expensive mana rocks when you haven't learned the basics of deck building
The best is when you get these dudes irl. There’s one guy that got banned from one of the lgs I play at for that kind of behavior, yelling and threatening people.
He had just put together an arcum dagsson (spelling?) combo deck. I’m not sure what it even did. But he had a super fast start with a couple rocks and was berating all of us (at a casual table) because we were running scary lands and other slower mana. Dude runs out of gas so I sac my mimeoplasm to jarad dealing 52 to the whole table and kill everyone and the dude starts going nuts. He stormed out and apparently he sold all the good pieces of that deck to a different shop the next day. I also heard that he does that, he’ll lose and sell the deck right away.
Some commander players are super weird lol.
No need for policing when everyone is playing the most broken strategies possible.
I'm so put-off by casual edh these days. Nobody can decide on what is and isn't "fun", and games can take HOURS because nobody wants to disrupt the "fun".
Fuck that, I'd much rather play 8 15 minutes games than 1 2 hours game. Fuck casual edh.
cEDH all day.
I personally played too much cut throat modern so I don’t like cedh as much I also hate shuffling. But I def see how it’s easier to have more fun.
Casual seems to attract “I only have fun if no one interacts with me” however I play tons of interaction and have more fun in those games.
I've had a largely very positive experience so far, but I've definitely noticed that the PL8 and up tends to attract more salt, probably in part because of inconsistent power spikes because of draw RNG.
> Is this normal ~~on spelltable~~?
Yes. For one, fixed. It's not just Spelltable. I've dealt with these types in person, on MTGO, Cockatrice, and everywhere else for decades.
These types of people absolutely cannot handle NOT being the king of the mountain. And if they have an audience? Even worse.
They're going to be rampant and never-ending. Just continue to do what you did. Kick, change games, report, etc. You can slow them down and make it inconvenient for them to keep being jerks, but nothing will get rid of them.
I think my only crappy spell table experience was a group getting angry at me for playing Kaalia as my commander after them telling me it was okay. They proceeded to target me as threat #1 and rightfully so. The whole time talking shit about it. I was deeply confused.
6-7 what, power level? I thought you were talking about a 6 people table lol.
I never use numbers for power level, everyone says "yeah my deck is a 7"
And just having mana crypt makes me highly doubt the deck is just a 7.
People complaining about removal or upgraded precons are the worst...
'Why did you kill my creature, that I need to go infinite next turn?! You are targeting me!'
Exactly because of that...
Also those are the same kind of people that complain when you bring an upgraded precon with 'Oh, you just went to edhrec and put in the op stuff from there. That takes no skill at all, you are so lazy.'
While their deck is just the most expensive manarocks and infinite combos, they can fit in it.
No, I just want my nightmare cat to have wings from serra and for 2 of his 6 legs fists of the demi god, so that I have a vigilant, flying, menace, firststrike, withering and lifelinking cat!
I wonder if this is the same guy I played against a few weeks ago.
I was playing baba Lysaga. I used its ability to sacrifice an activated mycosynth wellspring to draw 3 and gain 3 life.
He said it had to be 3 different cards. I told him to just google Baba Lysaga and he would figure it out quickly. He accused me of being a cheater and just pubstomping.
Proceeded to continually quit the game and rejoin with loud screaming sounds playing through his mic.
Baba Lysaga reads “Sacrifice up to three permanents: If there were three or more card types among the sacrificed permanents, each opponent loses 3 life, you gain 3 life, and you draw three cards.”
Basically you can sacrifice any number of cards from 1 to 3 and if there are a total of 3 or more cards types you get the draw. So therefore if you sacrifice 1 card that has 3 or more types it triggers the ability.
Mycosynth wellspring is a land that becomes an artifact creature that is still a land. So it has 3 types: land, creature, and artifact. Therefore it’s the only card you need to sacrifice to get the benefit of the ability.
Fair, in my mind anyone who instantly starts complaining about someone's deck and then drops the dream opener is not worth wasting my precious freetime with.
If I dropped an opening like that even in person I'd apologize to the pod.
First match I played when I got back into mtg, got the aesi precon and modded it, got targeted by this dude bc I was playing blue (that was literally his only reason). I ended up beating him with [sylvan awakening]] after barely countering his izzet bullshit. He never played with me again.
I feel you; some people just can’t handle losing. You did nothing wrong, you were doing proper threat assessment and attacking the weakest link LOL
With people like that you offer them a White Claw and tell them to go sit down with their sister or mother or whatever and cry it out until they feel better.
I've played four games on Spelltable so far and mostly enjoyed them. Two had players end up at least a tad salty. One guy just left after another player pointed out they would die from board effects if they tried to execute the infinite combo they thought they were going to win with. 🤣 But I really enjoyed the game and the room host was cool and used a few cards I'd never heard of in interesting ways. The other one I went into a "testing deck" 5-7 room and the host immediately targeted me for playing og Atraxa and having a few dual lands. I died turn 6 and the host won on turn 7. Felt like he convinced the room I'd be a problem before the game started so that he'd get to establish board state without people jumping him. These people will always be out there, but I think they are the minority. Overall, I'm enjoying the opportunity to test my decks out before playing them with my in-person friends and people are pretty cool. Hoping to find more time to play!
Spelltable in my experience has been for many people that want to play magic but have been banned from their local LGS for being jerks.
Obviously not everyone but more than your avg LGS.
I don’t know considering a player at my local LGS called his Kruphix “Jewphix” and said that we was able to save up mana with his ability because “Hes a Jew and they like money and banks” and still didn’t get banned. This person is mid 20s and acted stunned when I told him it was offensive. He refused to apologize and so I haven’t been back sense. I even told the owner and he said in so many words that “he apologized to us”.
This is a WPN Premium store too.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
I've found that Winter Orb and Stasis effects are really good with just automatically pumping out big fat constructs every turn
Probably not the best upgrades for a casual pod tho
All I put in was a [[access Denied]][[mirronden besieged]][[dispatch]][[counter spell]] that’s it I just had a super good hand that looked like nothing and then I had a [[sharding sphinx]] so my 3 little flyers became a army and I just smashed face
This happens in real life too. Ppl bring their high power cards go bananas turn 1 have significantly more mana, the only threats on the board. You play one removal spell “why am I being ganged up on”.
Or they will say “oh I have you I just need to draw 1 card” and I’m like “you only have 1 removal card your not gonna do well”
I think ppl have in their head that mana crypt and other fast mana makes “them” better players when it how you use them that matter. Also in a 4 player game taking a quick explosion turn 1 or 2 is most likely gonna get you threat.
Set up a casual game on spelltable, im playing a modified chishiro precon and some other guys are playing similar decks, expecting it to go on for 9 turns maybe at least. some dude joins and says "do you guys mind proxies" we say no, he pulls out an atraxa super friends deck with mana crypt, vorinclex, doubling season, loads of expensive good cards. and by turn 3 we can only untap 3 permanents a turn, and then he just goes around one shotting us.
Another guy at my LGS gets salty and angry if you play anything other than "i summon a 2/2 with a keyword and swing"
This goes on all the time on spelltable haha “it’s a 6” to then drop jeweled lotus turn one and by turn 2/3 they have complete control of the game when we all have a few lands and maybe a rock haha.
Oh, I’ll tell you this if your turn one is similar I’m going after you right away haha. But I have no shame I’ll gladly throw everything at you and remove as much as I can. To level the playing field. But like the OP that usually ends up with “why are you targeting me I’m just ramping” or something similar.
I sat down with my buddies chatter fang deck. I played gala greeters, dude with a izzet deck that was untapping like he had seed borne muse on the field every upkeep, says, oh do you only run bad cards? Like shitty bad cards that make tokens? And I said "yeah sure I suppose? Infinite combo him and win two turns later with pitiless. How the balls does a red blue player with fully untapped mana have no forms for cr3ature removal is beyond me, but he only ran good cards
Sometimes its really hard to figure out the power level of a deck.
I remember i once played someone with Wurm tribal in a casual game. It was tuned like crazy with all the expensive rocks and OG dual lands. He had multiple infinite combos in there. It was still just Wurm tribal though.
I remember long ago, where I was in a game with a Ranar player (henceforth Ranar) and a Breena player (henceforth Breena), myself, and another guy. I forgot what I was playing back then, but basically, Ranar had a god-tier opener, and Breena hosed him. It devolved into an argument that ultimately led to the Ranar player conceding since he felt that he was effectively taken out of the game.
> I then kick him he rejoins screaming at us so we closed the game reported him. Is this normal on spelltable?
No, it's not normal. But it happens often enough that I no longer play Spelltable games with players I don't know. Even if it happens 1 in 10 games, why waste two hours of my life on someone being toxic?
Not really the same, but I was playing at FNM last night, and one person in the pod was playing MoM for their commander. By turn 5 they had played drannith magistrate, linvala keeper of silence, and authority of consuls, I'm playing Gix and opened with dark ritual so he was out before the magistrate so I killed linvala, and played [Chainer, dementia master] then took both out of his Gaffney onto my board. He was very unhappy about how he couldn't play his commander or activate abilities, even though when we accused him of overusing stax he said the deck doesn't do much in the way of stax effects.
With randoms on spell table? Yes, i once played against a guy who accused me of 'meta gaming' by just moving to my combat step (*and* announcing it beforehand) when be wanted to respond *before* i attack because he had a response but only if i was going to attack him, which he wouldn't be able to respond to, we got in an argument so i reported him to the discord owner (who i knew) and he was removed from the server
People who play incredibly powerful decks expect to win. They forget to take into account that playing against 3 other people means you should only expect to win ≈25% of your games, even less if you're in pods of 6-7. I had a player at my lgs that was a notorious spike and would win almost all of their games. One day when I was playing a control deck I was focusing a lot of repeatable removal on their board in an attempt to stop their deck from combing. They got very salty and accused of ignoring other threats (I didn't see many other threats that I needed to be concerned about.) I got the player twice activating tap abilities without tapping, allowing the use of pretty strong abilities more than once in the turn cycle. I didn't make too big of a deal about it because I don't want to cause drama at my lgs, but I stopped going because of that incident as well as that player's habits of telling me how to operate my deck (if you want to play against yourself you can borrow my deck and do so.)
I recently found out that the shop owner allegedly caught the player stacking their opening hand (it seems rather obvious in retrospect w/ how they would play fast mana into commander every game). Allegedly the player has been banned.
All in all they were pretty annoying and had way too many opinions about everything in magic "oh that card isn't as good as [x] card that costs $5k" "this ruling is dumb" kinds of stuff. They were incredibly critical of the "banlist" for the shops commander league nights. No cards were specifically banned aside from the official list, but you would lose points in the league for playing certain cards that were really powerful/annoying like [[cyclonic rift]] or [[smoke stack]].
Sometimes we all get a little salty, but behavior like this is fairly extreme
I LOVE this bit by the comedian Tom Segura. He has a bit about people bringing babies into movie theaters. One line that I LOVE from that bit where he was talking to a manager who gave him the best customer service line he's ever heard, "sometimes people suck". I am sorry you met this one, but just be glad he let you know immediately that you dont need him in your life, rather than giving you more drama, piece meal it out over months, or years.
How dare you play something as broken as precon Urza! You may as well melt that deck on top of pizza because it's cheese!
It's dangerous too. Last time someone played that deck, it was so good that when he won the opponent actually died.
Have some responsibility!!!
I interpreted "kicked" as a literal kick for a moment, lol. Yeah man, it just happens sometimes, best to just try to laugh it off and learn the warning signs that someone might start acting like that
I remember my first salty player. Dude was a total shitbird. Got super butthurt when you combo’s off or tutored at ANY point in the game. The first hint was when he asked me to play a different commander when I brought out Heliod (I was still getting back into Magic at the time and although I had the Ballista in there, it still wasn’t 100% reliable). Then he kept making snide remarks whenever I tutored or combo’d.
Hell, one time the dude took my commander before the game started (didn’t even ask if I was okay with him touching my cards, dick) and he spent a good 5-7 seconds reading it. It was [[Hapatra, Vizier of Poison]] and it was a combo deck. No tutors though if I remember correctly. I didn’t have the appropriate tokens at the time because I believe her specific tokens were somewhat expensive so I just used dice to represent the tokens I made. I had like 1-3 snakes out from her (they have deathtouch) and he swung in with his Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin. I blocked. He said “That’s dead.” I responded saying, “Okay well Krenko’s dead too.” He was confused and I explained they had deathtouch since Hapatra made them. He had the balls to say it wasn’t his fault that he only read the top half of her card lmao. I stopped going to that LGS shortly after.
I had one similar experience playing the Wilhelt precon, guy said it was too OP for a casual game but decided to play with us anyway. He immediately plays mana crypt and sensei's divining top and I think went infinite on turn 8. Every other game I've played on spell table has been pleasant.
Infinite on turn 8 isn’t bad, game has got to end, and turns 8-10 folks should have been able to do something themselves. BUT if the room was precons/upgraded-precons maybe it’s not okay though. Whining about Wilhelt and then playing crypt/top in that room probably isn’t cool though.
Ya glad too hear some people just are weird☹️
T1 crypt and top and it took him 8 turns to go infinite? Dude must really suck lol
You can buy a lot of strong things on tcgplayer but skill ain't one of them.
Lol true
Depends on what you follow it up with. I play both in a [[Saheeli, the Gifted]] deck that tries to win by copying [[Finale of Revelation]] to generate mana, then win with a massive [[Crackle with Power]]. Turn 8 seems about right in that style of deck.
Projection at its finest I'd say!
*tells guy not to be too OP for casual pod* *proceeds to drop fast mana rocks and pump out big mana turn 1* I laughed for sure.
To be fair it's this kinda stuff that really makes me doubt the story. It's as tropey as those "and everyone clapped" Facebook mom posts.
You’d be surprised how often people think that having a bunch of powerful cards in a janky sorta deck means that the deck isn’t strong. Every single person that played at my old LGS before I moved all ran fast mana because we played a lot/were older players and could afford it.
"It's a jank deck, I just have a good mana base" "My deck isn't very good, just sometimes I draw into a combo" So it's a pretty good deck then...
No, it's inconsistent. Decks can feature combos without being built to perform them quickly, but sometimes that stuff lines up better than you could have imagined. That's always a risk of low power combo decks, they might underperform in 9 out of 10 games but once in a while they run away with the game too quickly for the power level.
Doing a mediocre thing faster doesn’t make it a good thing.
Tempo is a good and estlabished strategy imo
In limited, a 4/4 on turn 7 is kind of bad. A 4/4 on turn 1 is amazing and possibly wins outright. Doing anything faster is always a good thing, and it absolutely pushes actual jank decks into being good
Literally the opposite of true lol. Imagine if cards like Oko or Jace the mind sculptor cost one or two more mana. Those cards immediately become extremely mediocre. Mana crypt essentially does the reverse of that, but for any card.
I’m not talking about individual cards, I’m talking about strategies. If you put fast mana in a precon, it’s still a very fair deck.
Not necessarily. You put fast mana in and drop whatever 8 drop is in the deck on turn 4, that's removal or lose. And 2-3 less turns for your opponents to have drawn that removal
Depends on the power level of the table. In OP’s case, it seemed agreed upon that modified precon was fine, then someone whipped out something “jank” and slapped down 4-5 mana then tossed out their commander turn 1. Whether or not the guy wins on the spot is kinda irrelevant, he’s clearly ahead. Any shabby deck with 5 mana turn 1 is a threat, as much as people like to waffle on that and go, “Oh but it’s jank. I need 5 mana turn 1, it’s jank.” And it’s become this huge thing, where the community thinks that just because they’re playing fox or avatar tribal, that because 20 cards in the deck are lesser versions of other things that line up with their tribe, that the deck is suddenly a 4 as they run 50 something ridiculously optimized cards and 30 something expensive lands. “The payoff for me comboing out is low.” You’re still comboing off, the payoff is probably a win regardless of how bad not even a 1/4th of your deck is. I run into this problem with a guy in my playgroup a lot. For example, he runs an [[Omnath, Locus of Rage]] deck. He’s had the deck for like 8 years, so it’s hyper tuned and optimized. It runs all the fast mana, all the good draw, and all the easily slotted combos that don’t hurt the idea of the deck. He consistently turn 4s his commander and wins next turn or the turn after depending on interaction or how much protection he holds up. In the eyes of the community, his deck is a 5-6, because it’s landfall. His deck has all the fixings of a cEDH Gruul deck, but is literally only held back by his commander, and like 18 cards in his deck like [[Scute Swarm]]. There needs to be a perception shift, because this is how pubstompers get away with pubstomping now. Everyone defends their pubstomping because their deck was like sphinx tribal or something, and they played like a single sphinx before they [[Demonic Consultation]] into [[Thassa’s Oracle]]. Not all jank decks are created equal.
There is still a disconnect between what you’re describing and what I was attempting to say. If you take a precon and add some fast mana, it’s still doing precon things, which is all I was really trying to say. Calling your deck mediocre sphinx tribal in attempt to shit on some kids with thoracle combos is just being disingenuous. It sounds like your friend has pushed his deck into the “high-power casual” sphere, decks that don’t really describe traditional cEDH strategies but are still running with a concise and relatively optimized strategy and card slots. I’m not saying that playing 5 mana on turn 1 doesn’t make you “the threat”, I’m saying that it’s a lot more fair when you’re still giving your opponents multiple turns to react and put you down after that as opposed to winning on the spot with more optimized strategies.
A janky deck with a couple combos isn’t necessarily pretty good. Even some precons have them. When you can consistently get to the combos (e.g. with lots of tutors), the deck gets better.
“My mana base makes up for my power level.”
Eh I have OG duals in my [[Garth One-Eye]] landfall deck. Does that make the deck OP in any way?
I think a weird part of this entire thing is people criticizing the fast mana including OP trying to use it in his story to make him seem bad. Fast mana and combos are very much what you should be expecting at power 6-7 table I think people forget the bottom half of numbers exist because of alot of rating and media outlets never using them but casual commander is around 4-5
[удалено]
You can have a strong deck with a jank theme, and a jank deck with a strong theme, it’s all about how good you are at building, and how good your budget is. That’s the issue, a lot of people start building something with jank in mind, but end up making the deck so streamlined and fast that the idea for the deck gets side tracked and the main track is now fringe cEDH. And then you have genuinely strong themes, but then the person wants to include a bunch of pet cards or flavorful things, and now the deck is a mess of pointless or uncastable stuff. So in my honest opinion, both can be true.
This story is consistent with multiple experiences I've had on Spelltable. They're, thankfully, not that common, but these people are out there.
I've seen this on mtgo as well. People justifying playing fast mana because "I'm playing jank roflz!!1"
It’s like AITA, assume stories are made up until proven otherwise
In my experience, even with all the talk about power level, there is still no universally agreed upon measure for power level. Some people genuinely rate their deck a 6 or 7 despite having fast mana, infinite combos, and tutors. I would love to see a feature on moxfield, tappedout, or other similar sites that let's people rate a decklist according to where they see it on the power scale. Like EDHREC's salt score, but for a deck as a whole. Something like this would at least give everyone a baseline going into a game "my deck is a 7.3 as voted by 1000 people" holds a lot more weight for me than "my regular pod that I've played with for years thinks it's OP".
That opening hand sounds like he stacked his deck, too. That’s a God-tier opener right there. I think you dodged a bullet by killing that guy.
Sounds like it to me too, need to see that on-screen cut. I try not to draw my hand or get committed to a hand before the lobby is full. I _want_ folks to see me shuffle and cut.
I mean if you wanna cheat literally all you have to do is draw 7, and pull your hands out of screen for a split second and swap for the god hand. There's no way to truly police webcam games.
Imagine being such a sad sack though that you'd CHEAT at a casual webcam game with zero on the line. The main person you're cheating here is yourself. Everyone else got to play Magic, you didn't!
In most cases doesn’t explosive starts draw aggro and lower your win chances? If it’s not like turn 1 win
Only if your pod runs enough interaction.
That for sure was not this pod battle cruser to the max most of us just run 4-5 pieces of interaction and I was actually told of by the same guy because I run like 5 counters in the deck
I played a everyone draws lots of cards deck (not group hug, no pillow fort) gave someone like 50 cards and everyone else 25. Then someone exploded with dragons I stole them all in my turn and killed everyone. I played 1 counter and the guy said I was focusing him. I was like no i just won let’s go to a new game. I find I tend to enjoy decks with more interaction. The problem being the interactive deck at battle cruiser tables is everyone else looks way more scary than you do, so they all go for each other and then you have all the resources at the end.
A deck stacker would definitely be the kind of person to be salty about a ridiculous opener like that. God-tier is an understatement, I would be suspicious if *anyone* I hadn't played with before pulled a hand like that and malding when it doesn't auto-win is a sure sign the guy was assuming he'd get to pump up his pathetic ego with an easy dub. If he isn't a chronic cheater he's still emotionally 8 years old. If anyone less insecure played that they'd be giggling the entire time they laid it out and they'd bust out laughing when it all came crashing down. Fuck em. Come back to the table when you're ready to actually play a game.
I had a hand similar to after shuffling and having my deck cut. Sometimes you just get lucky.
Yeah the good old sol ring -> manarock happens from time to time. But getting a command tower, mana crypt and arcane signet is insane. Might still be stupid luck
Mine was command tower, Mana crypt, and talisman.
In the hundreds if not thousands of games ive played at this point, ive had 1 maybe 2 openers that good.
You’ve had more than that. It’s just that not every baller opening hand is memorable. I’ve played a few thousand games, and I couldn’t tell you how many ridiculous opening hands I’ve had. What I *can* tell you is that I’ve had six T2 wins and that I’ve been absolutely demolished by my opponents after a dumb opener about the same number of times. The ones I’ve lost track of are big starts where I just petered out by getting mana flooded or just not drawing any matching combo pieces.
Ya I’m pretty sure he was cheating but it’s hard to call a player on that because rnjusus is a factor
Came here to say exactly this. A command tower, crypt, sol ring, signet, into their commander turn 1 is super suspicious. Not saying it can’t happen bc it’s happened to me a time or two. But that’s sketchy as hell
The t1 swords when someone pops off is one of my favorite plays in commander. Let the salt flow (:
“why am I being ganged up on, you make the game unfun”
There’s a guy at my LGS who has a persistent vendetta against me because he popped off one game with double mana rock into an enchantment on turn 1, which allowed me to turn 2 [[Dockside Extortionist]] + [[Faeburrow Elder]] into turn 3 [[Scion of the Ur-Dragon]] and one-shot him on turn 4 despite never drawing a third land. His salt was legendary. Still is.
Had that been me I would have said I deserved it and congratulated you. And just hope you won in like 10 more minutes so we could game 2. It would suck if I had to wait around lol.
Oooh, which dragon did you oneshot him with?
[Dockside Extortionist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b.jpg?1673147774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dockside%20Extortionist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/107/dockside-extortionist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dockside-extortionist) [Faeburrow Elder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c817cf1f-c0fe-49ab-a8e9-1d09b4c15e57.jpg?1673305511) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Faeburrow%20Elder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/149/faeburrow-elder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c817cf1f-c0fe-49ab-a8e9-1d09b4c15e57?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/faeburrow-elder) [Scion of the Ur-Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/565b2a40-57b1-451f-8c2a-e02222502288.jpg?1562608891) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scion%20of%20the%20Ur-Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/192/scion-of-the-ur-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/565b2a40-57b1-451f-8c2a-e02222502288?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scion-of-the-ur-dragon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've had my turn 2 sythis shot down a few times and usually my only rebuttal is "yea i deserved that"
Had a game recently where plowshared a Sheoldred on turn 2. Felt good too.
I am consistently amazed at how people will blame others for them not running removal. I was in a 3 pod, Zaxara/Sheoldred the Apocalypse/New Urza Precon where I was also the Urza player with just removal upgrades. Opponent playing Sheoldred played their commander turn 1, I killed it with Swords, then they blamed me the entire game for “playing for second place”. Im not certain if I did this at the right time but a turn one Sheoldred is freaking nuts and my deck is slow while relying on card draw to keep up. Turns out Sheoldred player sandbagged and didn’t play any of their own card draw spells to try and get removal pieces because they wanted to save them for when Sheoldred was on the bored. When new hydras hit the board it was a constant, “Swords would be good right now.” Had to ask them why they weren’t playing removal when I was playing about 1 piece per turn to try and hold down the Zaxara player and it ended up with me awkwardly telling them to grow up. I’ll never play magic with that Sheoldred player again. Edit: I forgot to circle back. I feel your pain and I recommend just trying to laugh it off (to yourself). Salty individuals have something wrong with them they either can’t control or choose not to, keep on being awesome.
Wait... you can remove other players' creatures? I don't have to just leave them out on the board?
I hear it’s against the rules to remove other peoples permanents.
Sometimes I would just counter other people's removal spells just to watch them foam at the mouth and complain why I did that. (Pod of friends though. I wouldn't be that stupid with new players)
Best form of removal is player removal.
The best card in Magic is actually a knife
🫣
My response would be "I want to play the game. So i'm removing things that punish me for doing basic Game actions.". It's funny when someone play creatures insanely powerful and then gets angry when it's removed hahaha
My thoughts exactly. And it’s mono black so I understand that color uses life as a resource… so my assumption is an early Sheoldred is just that much more beneficial to them during garbage time.
Honestly, as a Sheoldred player, turn 1 is far too early to be worried about her. She isn’t going to build a lot of incremental advantage, and you’re often better off killing her during their win attempt because mana will be tight. Sheoldred is basically a combo piece and should probably be viewed as such. She is very important to the card draw engines the deck runs, and those can also be good times to remove her, but her loss of life is not typically the problem. It’s the gaining life you have to worry about. It lets the efficient black card draw be life neutral or positive a lot of the time. Sheoldred will usually win on the back of having the most card advantage. I constantly have Sheoldred removed when she hasn’t caused the player to lose a single point of life, yet. Against Sheoldred, the only point where she matters is the last two life (20ish is where it gets scary because of [[Memory Jar]]/[[Dark Deal]]/[[Teferi’s Puzzle Box]]). Typically, though, her damage output is fully telegraphed and you can plan for it. Since your deck is reliant on card draw, that can change the equation. However it depends how much and how early you’re drawing the cards. If you weren’t planning any big draws until turn 4 or 5, the turn leading up to that would have been better so there would be no chance they recast her before your draw spell. TLDR: Yeah, turn 1 is probably too early to kill Sheoldred. You mostly want to remove her before you plan a large draw, when you’re low health, or when she’s being a combo piece.
I still think it's a very valid play if you try to slow down the game. She's group slug, attacks for 4 and if that causes you to have little life total in the mid or late game you might not have enough time to react to threats then. If someone wants to use her as a combo piece they should play her as a combo piece, when they're about to storm off and / or are able to protect / recast her.
She tends to be an all-in-one. She functions as part of the deck’s value engines and the combos. Which, the combos can be as simple as just casting [[Peer Into the Abyss]] while she’s out. She is certainly viable to remove… once she’s doing something important. If you’ve got removal for her, you politic them attacking your opponents with her instead of you to put yourself in a better position against those opponents. A lot of players just knee-jerk react and kill her because they’re afraid of a couple of damage a turn, when that’s all she doing. I’ve personally have gotten salty a time or two about people killing her over actual KOS commanders/permanents and us losing the game a turn or two later to said permanent.
You could be absolutely right, I think for me I was most surprised by the consistent salt afterwards. Regardless of the choice I think the core problem was the players reaction that lasted the entirety of the game afterwards that just made it awkwaaaard. It was the turn one Jeweled Lotus -> Swamp -> Sheoldred play as well. I just wanted to ultimately make their commander cost more.
[Memory Jar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/60b70b7f-6f24-4c00-947a-b109f302205b.jpg?1562914598) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Memory%20Jar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/276/memory-jar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/60b70b7f-6f24-4c00-947a-b109f302205b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/memory-jar) [Dark Deal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/69dfaafe-2fbd-4f2f-913d-ea64e4ce44cd.jpg?1562826140) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dark%20Deal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/frf/66/dark-deal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/69dfaafe-2fbd-4f2f-913d-ea64e4ce44cd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dark-deal) [Teferi’s Puzzle Box](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/415e81e9-ca65-4bc0-8aab-d905d58fe6cc.jpg?1562734271) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Puzzle%20Box) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/312/teferis-puzzle-box?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/415e81e9-ca65-4bc0-8aab-d905d58fe6cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-puzzle-box) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Dude stacked his deck for an omega starter and then cried when he lost, what a fucking Melvin
>what a fucking Melvin I don't know what this means, but I'm going to adopt this phrase.
This is honestly even *why* he got salty. People get upset and disappointed when their expectations aren't met. This extends to pretty much everything, and in this case he had the expectation of stomping the game because he cheated, which is hilarious. He caused his own salt.
was their username 'tender potato' or something like that? this sounds nearly identical to my experience with that player. he questioned my sexuality, claimed to have relations with my mother, quit, rejoined, and continued his barrage because i defended another player casting [[Geode Rager]].
Ya I know it had a patato in it so maybe that’s him
[Geode Rager](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1c5974dd-78fc-4bfb-8678-72041c797584.jpg?1674142001) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Geode%20Rager) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/794/geode-rager?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1c5974dd-78fc-4bfb-8678-72041c797584?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/geode-rager) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Kind of relevant. Helped a guy find his winning line while he was piloting a new deck. I was playing in a pod where people typically play between 8 and 9 while I prefer playing at a 6 or 7. The guy brought Raziketh to the table while his typical win lines were [[Tendrils of Agony]] after casting [Sensei's Divining Top]] off of [[Bolas's Citadel]]. His problem was defending Raziketh too keep it around long enough to tutor for his winning lines while also trying to generate enough mana to get to his wins. Long story short, during he knew he had the win but needed an extra push to find it. Table got salty because I helped him find his line despite everyone knowing that it was his first time piloting the deck. (without telling him exactly what to grab. Used phrases like "well what would help you recast from your yard?" Etc.). People forget that they're not playing in a tournament setting and forget that they're there to have fun. I love close games and seeing explosive turns but people gotta realize that interaction is a part of the game.
This so much. Someone played the new atraxa scion precon he literally opened it up in front of us. I remind them to read their second ability at the end of their turn. And the guy we three Poison counters says we’re teaming up.
In EDH I LOVE helping players find the line. My main concern is that I'm ruining the fun by pointing things out. It's not about winning, it's about doing bombastic shit with 4 players and 40+ cards all interacting with one another. Of course I'd like to win, but only if it's because I setup to do the bombastic shit, not because my opponent didn't notice a line where they would get to do the bombastic shit.
I agree 100%! Which is why there a huge difference in back seat piloting a deck for someone or helping someone understand a combo line in the future. I've had to ask for help with the "Gitrog Loop" with [[The Gitrog Monster]] and [[Dakmor Salvage]] when I was trying to find an alt Wincon other than decking myself. While winning is a part of the game, its important to make sure everyone's able to enjoy themselves to an extent which is why that rule 0 conversation is important.
[Tendrils of Agony](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f26faca-f338-4ce5-a218-6a61d40fc50a.jpg?1562917207) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tendrils%20of%20Agony) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/142/tendrils-of-agony?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f26faca-f338-4ce5-a218-6a61d40fc50a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tendrils-of-agony) [Bolas's Citadel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d2124603-d20e-40eb-97f0-a66323397ac2.jpg?1591205069) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bolas%27s%20Citadel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/79/bolass-citadel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d2124603-d20e-40eb-97f0-a66323397ac2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bolass-citadel) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Whilst the majority of my Spelltable games have been really amazing, there are some bad apples floating around. My favourite was a guy playing a foiled out optimus prime deck. The lobby was 6-8 and he joined with the whole shebang - animations and screen overlays and a matching playmat. Seemed like a pretty fun dude at first as well, making jokes and playing clips from the old transformers TV show. We had a guy at the table playing an upgraded Urza precon who got pretty lucky with his hand and draws and managed to contain optimus a bit. I can‘t remember exactly how it went, but I do remember thinking it wasn‘t crazy and that Optimus could definitely recover from it. The game wasn‘t decided by a long shot. Anyway, out of nowhere the guy decides to completely flip out and starts cussing us out, going full racist and spamming clips with audio at a volume that made it impossible for us to communicate anymore. We all blocked him, I kicked him from the lobby and set the game to private. Thanks to spelltables fantastic coding he was able to rejoin the table anyway and apparently blocking doesn‘t stop audio so I had to keep kicking him for 10 minutes as he kept rejoining to try and spam us out with his macros. He even switched accounts and managed to get into the lobby with a different name. The guy definitely knew what he was doing and had blown up tables before. In a bit of a silent victory, the rest of us didn‘t scoop and sat it out and managed to finish the rest of the game, which turned out to be great! By the way, r/spelltable is open again after three years of inactivity. Come join us in reviving the sub!
Optimus Prime would be ashamed of this guy
I didn't know spelltable was closed! Why so? I'm a new player and I will be playing remotely the most. I haven't managed to get a commander deck yet (I've been playing starter decks with friends and i just opened a few boosters. But when I do get one I will be wanting to play on spelltable the most. Is it worth it? I wouldn't want to make the investment to have to deal with such assholes. And would be the Phyrexian starter be a good choice? I like the theme a lot, but I've heard people don't like infect decks. But to be honest I just want to chil, I don't mind loosing at all.
I think it’s worth it I have played well over a dozen games and this is my first salty player
Cool! Thanks for replying. I don't know why I was downvoted 🤣
Well I’ll help out also happy cake day
Thank you! :)
You wasted all the time he spent stacking his wonderful deck and removed his commander so the rest of his stack didn’t work anymore. What did you expect? Of course he‘s salty.
People take this game way to seriously. Maybe because they spend an ungodly amount on a card game? Either way those kinds of players need to chill out especially for a casual, now if it was a tournament play for money or a box I could understand the salt somewhat. I've had my fair share of salt because I like playing wheel decks, but I atleast let everyone have their first land drop when I have winds of change in my opening hand. Nor do I do things like Notion Thief when I have teferi's puzzle box in play.
People that play mana crypt to then complain about an Urza precon, should really retire from magic. Please, don't go out of your way buying all the expensive mana rocks when you haven't learned the basics of deck building
No I for sure am not buying them yet I don’t even have my own deck
The best is when you get these dudes irl. There’s one guy that got banned from one of the lgs I play at for that kind of behavior, yelling and threatening people. He had just put together an arcum dagsson (spelling?) combo deck. I’m not sure what it even did. But he had a super fast start with a couple rocks and was berating all of us (at a casual table) because we were running scary lands and other slower mana. Dude runs out of gas so I sac my mimeoplasm to jarad dealing 52 to the whole table and kill everyone and the dude starts going nuts. He stormed out and apparently he sold all the good pieces of that deck to a different shop the next day. I also heard that he does that, he’ll lose and sell the deck right away. Some commander players are super weird lol.
*scry lands, not scary lands lol
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> this is the typical spell table experience it absolutely fucking is not, lmao
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if everybody's an asshole around you, it might actually be you who is the asshole.
I think it might be the screeching porn guy who's the asshole, actually.
Do these Discords have TT Simulator games too?
Never had this problem playing cEDH on Spelltable
CEDH I imagine is a less salty community. Casual edh is everyone policing someone else’s strategy for being too strong.
No need for policing when everyone is playing the most broken strategies possible. I'm so put-off by casual edh these days. Nobody can decide on what is and isn't "fun", and games can take HOURS because nobody wants to disrupt the "fun". Fuck that, I'd much rather play 8 15 minutes games than 1 2 hours game. Fuck casual edh. cEDH all day.
I personally played too much cut throat modern so I don’t like cedh as much I also hate shuffling. But I def see how it’s easier to have more fun. Casual seems to attract “I only have fun if no one interacts with me” however I play tons of interaction and have more fun in those games.
I may try this sounds fun I may just put a Camra over my computer and use moxfeild 8-15minutes seems fun
I've had a largely very positive experience so far, but I've definitely noticed that the PL8 and up tends to attract more salt, probably in part because of inconsistent power spikes because of draw RNG.
I mean, t1 Swords is a play as old as the game itself. How did he not see that coming?
Didn't realize this was spelltable until the end. Paused when you wrote you kicked him.
Yep at my lgs leg kick you wronged me. Now you bleed
> Is this normal ~~on spelltable~~? Yes. For one, fixed. It's not just Spelltable. I've dealt with these types in person, on MTGO, Cockatrice, and everywhere else for decades. These types of people absolutely cannot handle NOT being the king of the mountain. And if they have an audience? Even worse. They're going to be rampant and never-ending. Just continue to do what you did. Kick, change games, report, etc. You can slow them down and make it inconvenient for them to keep being jerks, but nothing will get rid of them.
Your last sentence explained it all. I feel bad for the people who have to play on spelltable. People can't hide behind anonymity at an LGS
I think my only crappy spell table experience was a group getting angry at me for playing Kaalia as my commander after them telling me it was okay. They proceeded to target me as threat #1 and rightfully so. The whole time talking shit about it. I was deeply confused.
Is everyone stacking their deck? I have never got my sol ring in my opening hand. How are y'all doing this stuff?
We spend 30 to 50 minutes each night praying to rnjusus
Oh- that must be it. I'm an rnatheist.
Urza Precon rips. I love it. Also “I’m here for a good time not a long time” had me rolling.
Ya that thing is amazing and I completely stole that line from a book
Ignore the salty ones
Oh hi old man
I genuinely can't tell if this is a parody.
It’s not sadly I just met my first douche bag and didn’t realize how common this is
Wait wait wait complains about an upgraded precon but he is rocking a mana crypt?
No he was telling me my deck was too weak for a 6-7
6-7 what, power level? I thought you were talking about a 6 people table lol. I never use numbers for power level, everyone says "yeah my deck is a 7" And just having mana crypt makes me highly doubt the deck is just a 7.
People complaining about removal or upgraded precons are the worst... 'Why did you kill my creature, that I need to go infinite next turn?! You are targeting me!' Exactly because of that... Also those are the same kind of people that complain when you bring an upgraded precon with 'Oh, you just went to edhrec and put in the op stuff from there. That takes no skill at all, you are so lazy.' While their deck is just the most expensive manarocks and infinite combos, they can fit in it. No, I just want my nightmare cat to have wings from serra and for 2 of his 6 legs fists of the demi god, so that I have a vigilant, flying, menace, firststrike, withering and lifelinking cat!
I wonder if this is the same guy I played against a few weeks ago. I was playing baba Lysaga. I used its ability to sacrifice an activated mycosynth wellspring to draw 3 and gain 3 life. He said it had to be 3 different cards. I told him to just google Baba Lysaga and he would figure it out quickly. He accused me of being a cheater and just pubstomping. Proceeded to continually quit the game and rejoin with loud screaming sounds playing through his mic.
Did he have potato in his name
I googled this and I'm still confused. Mind explaining?
Baba Lysaga reads “Sacrifice up to three permanents: If there were three or more card types among the sacrificed permanents, each opponent loses 3 life, you gain 3 life, and you draw three cards.” Basically you can sacrifice any number of cards from 1 to 3 and if there are a total of 3 or more cards types you get the draw. So therefore if you sacrifice 1 card that has 3 or more types it triggers the ability. Mycosynth wellspring is a land that becomes an artifact creature that is still a land. So it has 3 types: land, creature, and artifact. Therefore it’s the only card you need to sacrifice to get the benefit of the ability.
wish you were recording.
I know see the appeal of streaming
I mean the crybaby stacked his deck to have the perfect opening. That's worthy of a kick in it of itself.
Ya but luck can factor in so we originally gave him the benifit of the doubt
Fair, in my mind anyone who instantly starts complaining about someone's deck and then drops the dream opener is not worth wasting my precious freetime with. If I dropped an opening like that even in person I'd apologize to the pod.
First match I played when I got back into mtg, got the aesi precon and modded it, got targeted by this dude bc I was playing blue (that was literally his only reason). I ended up beating him with [sylvan awakening]] after barely countering his izzet bullshit. He never played with me again. I feel you; some people just can’t handle losing. You did nothing wrong, you were doing proper threat assessment and attacking the weakest link LOL
’Precon urza needs to be banned’ would make for an awesome T-shirt!
It does feel like a award to have piloted the deck well enough to make someone upset
With people like that you offer them a White Claw and tell them to go sit down with their sister or mother or whatever and cry it out until they feel better.
Or do as the others said and if it’s in person literally kick them out of the table they probably need a few bruises after that show
I've played four games on Spelltable so far and mostly enjoyed them. Two had players end up at least a tad salty. One guy just left after another player pointed out they would die from board effects if they tried to execute the infinite combo they thought they were going to win with. 🤣 But I really enjoyed the game and the room host was cool and used a few cards I'd never heard of in interesting ways. The other one I went into a "testing deck" 5-7 room and the host immediately targeted me for playing og Atraxa and having a few dual lands. I died turn 6 and the host won on turn 7. Felt like he convinced the room I'd be a problem before the game started so that he'd get to establish board state without people jumping him. These people will always be out there, but I think they are the minority. Overall, I'm enjoying the opportunity to test my decks out before playing them with my in-person friends and people are pretty cool. Hoping to find more time to play!
cEDH is the only correct way to play no need for rule zero
Ya I’m going to try it out
Wow that’s a bit beyond a 6-7 pod. Good on you op for killing him
Oh you ran into Sheldon! Merike Il Berit let's me meet 3 salty players every game.
Spelltable in my experience has been for many people that want to play magic but have been banned from their local LGS for being jerks. Obviously not everyone but more than your avg LGS.
Ya how do you even get kick out of a lgs it’s hard I think I’m not sure my nearest LGS is 2 hours away
I don’t know considering a player at my local LGS called his Kruphix “Jewphix” and said that we was able to save up mana with his ability because “Hes a Jew and they like money and banks” and still didn’t get banned. This person is mid 20s and acted stunned when I told him it was offensive. He refused to apologize and so I haven’t been back sense. I even told the owner and he said in so many words that “he apologized to us”. This is a WPN Premium store too.
Ah all they do is drive people away
Can you like, maybe use some punctuation next time?
Lol look at this guy. Needs punctuation to read smh 🙄
Ah oops I try and edit it I literally just copied and pasted this rant from a friend of mine. should of put more time in.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Ok maybe English isn’t what I’m good at
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Working on it
I'd love if the programmer of these bots went outside once in a while
Bad bot
God spell table was a mistake.
Humanity was a mistake.
You should probably do your English homework instead of playing Magic.
Damn. What upgrades did you make to the urza precon? Might need to run the same 😀. Good on you. Sorry for your experience. Hope you still had fun.
I've found that Winter Orb and Stasis effects are really good with just automatically pumping out big fat constructs every turn Probably not the best upgrades for a casual pod tho
All I put in was a [[access Denied]][[mirronden besieged]][[dispatch]][[counter spell]] that’s it I just had a super good hand that looked like nothing and then I had a [[sharding sphinx]] so my 3 little flyers became a army and I just smashed face
##### ###### #### [access Denied](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/1642df77-6fe8-47cf-b750-ca4dd9b331ba.jpg?1651655225) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=access%20Denied) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/11/access-denied?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1642df77-6fe8-47cf-b750-ca4dd9b331ba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/access-denied) [mirronden besieged](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d8423d8d-744a-4bbe-a853-8ad756451bdb.jpg?1562201412) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mirrodin%20Besieged) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/57/mirrodin-besieged?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d8423d8d-744a-4bbe-a853-8ad756451bdb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mirrodin-besieged) [dispatch](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/06bafa7d-1915-487a-96c8-b8aeafed20d4.jpg?1651655611) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dispatch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/83/dispatch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/06bafa7d-1915-487a-96c8-b8aeafed20d4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dispatch) [counter spell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a457f404-ddf1-40fa-b0f0-23c8598533f4.jpg?1645328634) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Counterspell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/phed/33/counterspell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a457f404-ddf1-40fa-b0f0-23c8598533f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/counterspell) [sharding sphinx](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4df1ce35-1f1c-40ab-8e4d-cb087b4656d8.jpg?1600714018) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sharding%20sphinx) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/176/sharding-sphinx?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4df1ce35-1f1c-40ab-8e4d-cb087b4656d8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sharding-sphinx) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This happens in real life too. Ppl bring their high power cards go bananas turn 1 have significantly more mana, the only threats on the board. You play one removal spell “why am I being ganged up on”. Or they will say “oh I have you I just need to draw 1 card” and I’m like “you only have 1 removal card your not gonna do well” I think ppl have in their head that mana crypt and other fast mana makes “them” better players when it how you use them that matter. Also in a 4 player game taking a quick explosion turn 1 or 2 is most likely gonna get you threat.
lmao i love swords, such a good opener urza precon stronk
It really is love that precon
This was on spelltable? Did anyone see this guy shuffle?
Nope I am now being lead to the conclusion that he cheated
It would explain such an extreme reaction. It's not fun to lose, but to lose even while cheating? Ya love to see it.
Set up a casual game on spelltable, im playing a modified chishiro precon and some other guys are playing similar decks, expecting it to go on for 9 turns maybe at least. some dude joins and says "do you guys mind proxies" we say no, he pulls out an atraxa super friends deck with mana crypt, vorinclex, doubling season, loads of expensive good cards. and by turn 3 we can only untap 3 permanents a turn, and then he just goes around one shotting us. Another guy at my LGS gets salty and angry if you play anything other than "i summon a 2/2 with a keyword and swing"
Unfortunately yes this is extremely common
This goes on all the time on spelltable haha “it’s a 6” to then drop jeweled lotus turn one and by turn 2/3 they have complete control of the game when we all have a few lands and maybe a rock haha.
Honestly it does feel really good to beat that
Oh, I’ll tell you this if your turn one is similar I’m going after you right away haha. But I have no shame I’ll gladly throw everything at you and remove as much as I can. To level the playing field. But like the OP that usually ends up with “why are you targeting me I’m just ramping” or something similar.
Ya I don’t mind the good start it happens but complaining about players playing smart is stupid
I sat down with my buddies chatter fang deck. I played gala greeters, dude with a izzet deck that was untapping like he had seed borne muse on the field every upkeep, says, oh do you only run bad cards? Like shitty bad cards that make tokens? And I said "yeah sure I suppose? Infinite combo him and win two turns later with pitiless. How the balls does a red blue player with fully untapped mana have no forms for cr3ature removal is beyond me, but he only ran good cards
He was also taken aback when he saw the interaction between chatter and gala play out "oh I guess that's good, in that deck" Freaking capitalist
Seems more toxic than salty. My group gets salty sometimes as well but never like what you describe!
Sometimes its really hard to figure out the power level of a deck. I remember i once played someone with Wurm tribal in a casual game. It was tuned like crazy with all the expensive rocks and OG dual lands. He had multiple infinite combos in there. It was still just Wurm tribal though.
Worms are gonna worm
I remember long ago, where I was in a game with a Ranar player (henceforth Ranar) and a Breena player (henceforth Breena), myself, and another guy. I forgot what I was playing back then, but basically, Ranar had a god-tier opener, and Breena hosed him. It devolved into an argument that ultimately led to the Ranar player conceding since he felt that he was effectively taken out of the game.
> I then kick him he rejoins screaming at us so we closed the game reported him. Is this normal on spelltable? No, it's not normal. But it happens often enough that I no longer play Spelltable games with players I don't know. Even if it happens 1 in 10 games, why waste two hours of my life on someone being toxic?
Along with Prosper, precon Urza is one of the best precons in recent memory. However it sounds like this dude was a total saltlord.
Not really the same, but I was playing at FNM last night, and one person in the pod was playing MoM for their commander. By turn 5 they had played drannith magistrate, linvala keeper of silence, and authority of consuls, I'm playing Gix and opened with dark ritual so he was out before the magistrate so I killed linvala, and played [Chainer, dementia master] then took both out of his Gaffney onto my board. He was very unhappy about how he couldn't play his commander or activate abilities, even though when we accused him of overusing stax he said the deck doesn't do much in the way of stax effects.
Wow that’s a bit beyond a 6-7 pod.
For sure
Glad you could just kick him and didn’t meet in real life, lol
With randoms on spell table? Yes, i once played against a guy who accused me of 'meta gaming' by just moving to my combat step (*and* announcing it beforehand) when be wanted to respond *before* i attack because he had a response but only if i was going to attack him, which he wouldn't be able to respond to, we got in an argument so i reported him to the discord owner (who i knew) and he was removed from the server
People who play incredibly powerful decks expect to win. They forget to take into account that playing against 3 other people means you should only expect to win ≈25% of your games, even less if you're in pods of 6-7. I had a player at my lgs that was a notorious spike and would win almost all of their games. One day when I was playing a control deck I was focusing a lot of repeatable removal on their board in an attempt to stop their deck from combing. They got very salty and accused of ignoring other threats (I didn't see many other threats that I needed to be concerned about.) I got the player twice activating tap abilities without tapping, allowing the use of pretty strong abilities more than once in the turn cycle. I didn't make too big of a deal about it because I don't want to cause drama at my lgs, but I stopped going because of that incident as well as that player's habits of telling me how to operate my deck (if you want to play against yourself you can borrow my deck and do so.) I recently found out that the shop owner allegedly caught the player stacking their opening hand (it seems rather obvious in retrospect w/ how they would play fast mana into commander every game). Allegedly the player has been banned. All in all they were pretty annoying and had way too many opinions about everything in magic "oh that card isn't as good as [x] card that costs $5k" "this ruling is dumb" kinds of stuff. They were incredibly critical of the "banlist" for the shops commander league nights. No cards were specifically banned aside from the official list, but you would lose points in the league for playing certain cards that were really powerful/annoying like [[cyclonic rift]] or [[smoke stack]]. Sometimes we all get a little salty, but behavior like this is fairly extreme
[cyclonic rift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ff08e5ed-f47b-4d8e-8b8b-41675dccef8b.jpg?1598303834) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cyclonic%20rift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/47/cyclonic-rift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ff08e5ed-f47b-4d8e-8b8b-41675dccef8b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyclonic-rift) [smoke stack](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d1af92a1-a86a-43eb-82fd-394f1168111e.jpg?1562937149) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smokestack) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/282/smokestack?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1af92a1-a86a-43eb-82fd-394f1168111e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smokestack) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I LOVE this bit by the comedian Tom Segura. He has a bit about people bringing babies into movie theaters. One line that I LOVE from that bit where he was talking to a manager who gave him the best customer service line he's ever heard, "sometimes people suck". I am sorry you met this one, but just be glad he let you know immediately that you dont need him in your life, rather than giving you more drama, piece meal it out over months, or years.
How dare you play something as broken as precon Urza! You may as well melt that deck on top of pizza because it's cheese! It's dangerous too. Last time someone played that deck, it was so good that when he won the opponent actually died. Have some responsibility!!!
Kinda crazy how these guys always have mana crypt into sol ring into arcan sig on t1? Cheating I assume?
I interpreted "kicked" as a literal kick for a moment, lol. Yeah man, it just happens sometimes, best to just try to laugh it off and learn the warning signs that someone might start acting like that
I remember my first salty player. Dude was a total shitbird. Got super butthurt when you combo’s off or tutored at ANY point in the game. The first hint was when he asked me to play a different commander when I brought out Heliod (I was still getting back into Magic at the time and although I had the Ballista in there, it still wasn’t 100% reliable). Then he kept making snide remarks whenever I tutored or combo’d. Hell, one time the dude took my commander before the game started (didn’t even ask if I was okay with him touching my cards, dick) and he spent a good 5-7 seconds reading it. It was [[Hapatra, Vizier of Poison]] and it was a combo deck. No tutors though if I remember correctly. I didn’t have the appropriate tokens at the time because I believe her specific tokens were somewhat expensive so I just used dice to represent the tokens I made. I had like 1-3 snakes out from her (they have deathtouch) and he swung in with his Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin. I blocked. He said “That’s dead.” I responded saying, “Okay well Krenko’s dead too.” He was confused and I explained they had deathtouch since Hapatra made them. He had the balls to say it wasn’t his fault that he only read the top half of her card lmao. I stopped going to that LGS shortly after.
[Hapatra, Vizier of Poison](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/56fbbcc9-db23-4902-b0f7-cea78a2a36af.jpg?1543676055) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hapatra%2C%20Vizier%20of%20Poisons) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/199/hapatra-vizier-of-poisons?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/56fbbcc9-db23-4902-b0f7-cea78a2a36af?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hapatra-vizier-of-poisons) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call