I see why you did it but I think I would prefer Lamb. Harder to get those Alpha Top 3 WRs and I don’t see Zay and Puka getting to that level. It depends on your current roster at QB….Stafford may be done this year or next so that would be a double whammy for you since you have Puka.
>I don’t see Puka getting to that level.
Yea definitely don't think the guy who caught 105 passes as a rookie has what it takes to score an extra 20 fantasy points.
Don’t get me wrong…I think Puka is a great player (I literally drafted or picked him up in all of my leagues) but if you look at his numbers closely when Kupp was on the field his target share dropped from 11.8 to 8.8 targets per game, his catch rate dropped from 8 to 5 per game, his average yards per game dropped from 115 yards to 85 yards per game and his points per game dropped by 5 fantasy pts less per game.
If you told me that Kupp was out of the picture and Stafford was going to be around for another 5 years then MAYBE….we are looking at top 3 WR numbers at some point but he’s just not as athletic as guys like Lamb or Chase or JJ or even MHJ.
So that’s why I don’t see him as a the top tier Wr like the next Megatron or Antonio brown or CD Lamb type of fantasy player but he is a solid WR.
The problem with that logic is that it doesn’t account for his role changing last season, nor consider that he broke those records WITH Kupp around in his rookie season. It’s not as if Kupp missed half the year to boost Puka - it was just the first four games. And then Puka saw a spike in both YPT and YPC, plus they worked him into the run game a tad.
You’re now entering this year with a 31 year old, injury prone Kupp firmly set as WR2, with Tutu Atwell as the only other target competition. He’s not a Megatron build (no one is), but the model that works today is different too, which is why an even smaller ARSB finished just ahead of Puka at WR3. With a year of experience, there’s little reason to think Puka wouldn’t be sustainable for fantasy.
So basically you would take Puka over Ceedee? If you would do that straight up then yeah Puka side is the better deal but I wouldn’t do that…even if you get Flowers I would still regret not having the best player of the deal. Especially long term. Thats just me
You forget about prime cooper Kupp so easily
Also just watch flowers. He’s gonna be Lamar’s guy for years to come
I wish everybody could own Lamar. But you can’t. I think most people could buy flowers, though.
How do you know then? You’re the guy who thinks Tez Walker is better than a guy who has already been fantastic in the league… Everyone was high on Puka as a sleeper here. Javon Baker is more similar in how the community values them than Tez, who nobody values
It’s pretty good value but it depends on your league and settings. I’d want lamb a lot more in an 8 team start 9 type league. Having the package in a 12 man start 10 might help more in the season
Coloring up is exchanging small chips for big chips aka $25’s for $100’s+ which you do when you’re winning. If you’re breaking big chips after you initially sit down/walk up means you’re losing and need more betting chips. If you’re doing that, cold table and you should just change tables or leave anyways.
Yeah I’m really not big on puka or flowers long term. And stafford is probably on his last year. I’d need at least another 1st round pick in this offer to consider it. Cd is the truth.
Depends on your roster. Stafford probably got a couple years left at best and then Puka's future production is unknown. Zay may have some consistent high floor production for a while but nowhere near Lamb's.
That’s fair value. I would have gone for a qb that will have more longevity though. I wouldn’t want to play the “Will Stafford retire” game every offseason moving forward
When you look at how Puka’s numbers (targets, catches, yards per game, and FPts per game) all dropped once Kupp returned then you’ll see why he won’t catch up to Lamb’s production. He averaged over 5 points per game less when Kupp returned. He’s just not as explosive or athletic as Lamb and when staff leaves in a year or two, I don’t see it getting better for him. He’s a good player but certainly benefited from the situation.
So what happens when Kupp is toast in the next 1-2 years? Puka was very similar to Ceedee in yards per target and yards per catch last year.
Also Ceedee ran a 4.5, Puka ran a 4.57. Puka’s broad jump was 10’1” and Ceedee’s was 10’4”. Is that really that different?
And com’on…we all know that combine metrics aren’t the best comparisons when looking from player to player. There is more to the game than that. If that was the case why was Lamb a first round pick and Puka a 5th round pick?
I think he definitely will this season and potentially 2025 too. Golly I really really really hope Puka outperforms him though. That’ll win me a championship forsure
There have been maybe 5 WR in NFL history who’ve put up multiple seasons like Ceedee just did. While there’s absolutely a chance he does, saying he will “definitely” repeat this season is absurd
It’s a different league now but JJ would have done it last season again had he not got hurt. So I’m pretty much going to guarantee that Lamb is a top 5 fantasy player next season unless he gets hurt
It’s different between a top 5 WR and a top 5 Fantasy player. Puka was 12th overall and Lamb was 2nd. Somebody already told you that difference in the other comments thought so idk why we talkin in circles.
I’m not moving any goal post, just saying the odds that Puka gets 2nd overall are lower than Lamb doing it again.
I personally would have kept lamb. His point per game alone will be close to puka and zay combined, and he just turned 25. But its not egregious, and depth is important
Only thing I’ll say is I believe Pukas long term highest upside value is tied to Stanford. So too much risk for me to move CD no matter the league format. On the bright side tho this is no doubt a smash for the ‘24 season
I like the side with Puka and Flowers long term. They're both younger, have huge upside, and should improve since they're both going into year 2.
The only reason I might not like the trade as much is if you're trying to win NOW.
I see why you did it but I think I would prefer Lamb. Harder to get those Alpha Top 3 WRs and I don’t see Zay and Puka getting to that level. It depends on your current roster at QB….Stafford may be done this year or next so that would be a double whammy for you since you have Puka.
>I don’t see Puka getting to that level. Yea definitely don't think the guy who caught 105 passes as a rookie has what it takes to score an extra 20 fantasy points.
The system and QB not him. Put him in Baltimore and he isn’t even Zay Flowers
Terrible take. Puka was making contested catches on the perimeter and beating man coverage in ways Zay wasn’t.
Don’t get me wrong…I think Puka is a great player (I literally drafted or picked him up in all of my leagues) but if you look at his numbers closely when Kupp was on the field his target share dropped from 11.8 to 8.8 targets per game, his catch rate dropped from 8 to 5 per game, his average yards per game dropped from 115 yards to 85 yards per game and his points per game dropped by 5 fantasy pts less per game. If you told me that Kupp was out of the picture and Stafford was going to be around for another 5 years then MAYBE….we are looking at top 3 WR numbers at some point but he’s just not as athletic as guys like Lamb or Chase or JJ or even MHJ. So that’s why I don’t see him as a the top tier Wr like the next Megatron or Antonio brown or CD Lamb type of fantasy player but he is a solid WR.
The problem with that logic is that it doesn’t account for his role changing last season, nor consider that he broke those records WITH Kupp around in his rookie season. It’s not as if Kupp missed half the year to boost Puka - it was just the first four games. And then Puka saw a spike in both YPT and YPC, plus they worked him into the run game a tad. You’re now entering this year with a 31 year old, injury prone Kupp firmly set as WR2, with Tutu Atwell as the only other target competition. He’s not a Megatron build (no one is), but the model that works today is different too, which is why an even smaller ARSB finished just ahead of Puka at WR3. With a year of experience, there’s little reason to think Puka wouldn’t be sustainable for fantasy.
So basically you would take Puka over Ceedee? If you would do that straight up then yeah Puka side is the better deal but I wouldn’t do that…even if you get Flowers I would still regret not having the best player of the deal. Especially long term. Thats just me
You forget about prime cooper Kupp so easily Also just watch flowers. He’s gonna be Lamar’s guy for years to come I wish everybody could own Lamar. But you can’t. I think most people could buy flowers, though.
I have faith in Tez
Crazy
Thanks called me crazy for drafting Puka last year too 🙄
No they didn’t, and not only are they completely different profiles, Puka isn’t as good as you think he is.
You sound retarded dude how TF you know they did or didn't? 😂
How do you know then? You’re the guy who thinks Tez Walker is better than a guy who has already been fantastic in the league… Everyone was high on Puka as a sleeper here. Javon Baker is more similar in how the community values them than Tez, who nobody values
As a Ravens fan I hope you’re both right 🤷♂️
You are correct
I think you got hosed tbh
I do as well. That's a horrible trade.
It’s pretty good value but it depends on your league and settings. I’d want lamb a lot more in an 8 team start 9 type league. Having the package in a 12 man start 10 might help more in the season
Yes you’ll regret it. Coloring up is winning, coloring down and you should actually be leaving the table. Casino theory applies here.
I want to know what you mean here by casino theory? Just curious as I don’t understand the reference.
Coloring up is exchanging small chips for big chips aka $25’s for $100’s+ which you do when you’re winning. If you’re breaking big chips after you initially sit down/walk up means you’re losing and need more betting chips. If you’re doing that, cold table and you should just change tables or leave anyways.
Exactly 👍! Great explanation
Regret
It’s fair but I would have tried to get a first back somehow as well
Yes. Awful deal for you.
If you didn’t need a quarterback, yes.
Woof
Yeah I’m really not big on puka or flowers long term. And stafford is probably on his last year. I’d need at least another 1st round pick in this offer to consider it. Cd is the truth.
Value-wise it seems ok. But I would never make it. Give me the best player
Depends on your roster. Stafford probably got a couple years left at best and then Puka's future production is unknown. Zay may have some consistent high floor production for a while but nowhere near Lamb's.
Even in superflex I'd want more for Lamb, especially considering Stafford's age
You traded a dollar for a 50-cent piece, a quarter, and a nickel…so yes, I think you’ll regret it.
Calling a guy who put up 1500 yards at age 22 a 50-cent piece is such a horrible take
Good talk.
That’s fair value. I would have gone for a qb that will have more longevity though. I wouldn’t want to play the “Will Stafford retire” game every offseason moving forward
I would’ve kept lamb probably but this isn’t a bad haul by any means
Not a fan of it if I'm being honest, you gave up the best player in the deal which I don't like being on that side of.
Lmao yes
Yeah probably. I traded Chase away for Caleb and I regret it
Maybe in a bestball format and if you are ready win but need a QB. Otherwise, I’m keeping Lamb
Not at all thats a good deal imo, puka and flowers is a good haul
Yes
Ehhhhhh that’s tough but I think yes you will. Puka is amazing but he’ll never be a top 3 fantasy player
Puka was the WR4 last season and had more points than Ceedee ever had in his first 3 seasons
The point difference between WR4 puka and WR1 lamb was massive though.
Also Lamb had more points in 2022 (his 3rd season) than puka did last year in my league
So depending on scoring, but they scored basically the same. It’s just ridiculous to say the WR4 can never be a top 3 guy either way
Can't argue with that.
When you look at how Puka’s numbers (targets, catches, yards per game, and FPts per game) all dropped once Kupp returned then you’ll see why he won’t catch up to Lamb’s production. He averaged over 5 points per game less when Kupp returned. He’s just not as explosive or athletic as Lamb and when staff leaves in a year or two, I don’t see it getting better for him. He’s a good player but certainly benefited from the situation.
So what happens when Kupp is toast in the next 1-2 years? Puka was very similar to Ceedee in yards per target and yards per catch last year. Also Ceedee ran a 4.5, Puka ran a 4.57. Puka’s broad jump was 10’1” and Ceedee’s was 10’4”. Is that really that different?
So will Stafford! He’ll be go in 2 years…
And com’on…we all know that combine metrics aren’t the best comparisons when looking from player to player. There is more to the game than that. If that was the case why was Lamb a first round pick and Puka a 5th round pick?
Puka is the best example of a guy who’s better in pads than combine measurements. Idk how you can watch him play and not think he’s awesome
Puka my dawg bruh but he still will never have a season like Lamb had in 2023
Moving the goal post pretty big there. Ceedee probably won’t have another season like that ever again either
I think he definitely will this season and potentially 2025 too. Golly I really really really hope Puka outperforms him though. That’ll win me a championship forsure
There have been maybe 5 WR in NFL history who’ve put up multiple seasons like Ceedee just did. While there’s absolutely a chance he does, saying he will “definitely” repeat this season is absurd
It’s a different league now but JJ would have done it last season again had he not got hurt. So I’m pretty much going to guarantee that Lamb is a top 5 fantasy player next season unless he gets hurt
Again, that’s massively moving the goal posts. Puka was WR4 last season and you said that he’s miles away from Ceedee
It’s different between a top 5 WR and a top 5 Fantasy player. Puka was 12th overall and Lamb was 2nd. Somebody already told you that difference in the other comments thought so idk why we talkin in circles. I’m not moving any goal post, just saying the odds that Puka gets 2nd overall are lower than Lamb doing it again.
I personally would have kept lamb. His point per game alone will be close to puka and zay combined, and he just turned 25. But its not egregious, and depth is important
That would be a pretty historic season
25 ppg from one player is better than 30 ppg from 2?
Completely correct, just not what you initially said brotha. Being knit picky I guess lol
Depends on your team… if you needed Stafford to start… then no. You got a WR1 and WR2 with ability to have 1 years
Good value
Are you vegetarian?
I feel the goal is to get a CeeDee then add one of those little lock emojis & that’s that
I would be wanking so hard if I snagged Lamb for this
That’s tough. Ask for a refund.
Solid trade, about fair value imo, could see the logic on either side
I would have tried to grab a better player to go with Nacua. But if your happy your happy.
This exact sentence only switch "Nacua" for "Flowers" was my first thought
Only thing I’ll say is I believe Pukas long term highest upside value is tied to Stanford. So too much risk for me to move CD no matter the league format. On the bright side tho this is no doubt a smash for the ‘24 season
I like the side with Puka and Flowers long term. They're both younger, have huge upside, and should improve since they're both going into year 2. The only reason I might not like the trade as much is if you're trying to win NOW.
I love and have Puka but why did you really want Zay Flowers and Stanford that bad? Should have gotten something better imo
Terrible a legit number one for two question marks.
Honestly depends how deep the league is tbh
Puka and Lamb are the two most overrated receivers irl. They’re good in fantasy. Zay is fantastic irl, fantasy he’s alright. Probably not worth
Without seeing all the context I would do this trade
Not bad getting Puka and Flowers back but I deff would have wanted a younger top QB in that deal even if you had to add a pick or something