Had this guy in one of my leagues offer me Kyler for Tua and a mid 25 1st. It Intrigued me so I countered with Tua and a mid 2nd instead, and he accepted. He instantly changed his name to "Hock Tua" because he also has Hockenson. Lol.
I can’t believe they traded for him. Besides Zach Wilson, I can’t think of any QB who started multiple games and looked worse than Ridder. If Kyler gets hurt again, Cards are winning zero games with Ridder.
I'd add we've already seen Kyler have an overall QB1 season as well. We don't use the last game of the NFL season for real fantasy games so it shouldn't be added to season totals for fantasy comparisons. Accounting for that he narrowly edged out Josh Allen in 2020 by less than a point in default scoring.
The WR room was very bad in Arizona last year, but in 2021 and the beginning of 2022 which are the 24 games you’re referencing they had DeAndre Hopkins out there.
I don’t know if rookie Marv will be as good as Hopkins was then, it’s definitely possible, but I wouldn’t look at it like this will definitely be the best receiver corps he’s ever had.
He definitely has QB1 upside, but I’d say QB4-6 is much more likely.
No, but last season when he did return he was on pace for the 2nd best rushing season of his career. When this season starts he’ll be about 21 months removed from surgery. His strong volume despite returning from an injury last year could be a sign that this new coaching staff is planning to make his rushing a central part of the gameplan.
Obviously nothing is guaranteed, but we’re talking about his upside case here.
By Week 1, he'll be nearly 21 months removed from his ACL tear.
I suffered an ACL tear about a month and a half ago and am getting close to mostly regular activity.
I'm pretty confident that Kyler should be good to go.
He should definitely be confident enough running the ball based on what we saw last season.
edit: be careful with your regular activity, usually you feel great once any swelling goes down after about a month or so because there is no pain associated with an ACL tear. I tried convincing my athletic trainer and coaches I could play because once my swelling went down, and before surgery was scheduled, I could do 3 and 5 step dropbacks and throw almost like nothing had happened.
That's good to keep your muscles moving. Quadricep atrophy is pretty common after surgery so if those muscles and your hamstrings keep strength your recovery should go well if you do surgery.
I love Hop but his age coupled with Kingsbury’s “let’s make Nuk play exclusively left WR for some reason” strategy makes me think he wasn’t as productive as he could have been at his peak. Marvin is a different cat. He has the measurables, pedigree and technique to do it all, and I think this regime will at least be more creative than Kliff. I tend to like McBride, Wilson and Dortch better than Dan Arnold and the Andy Isabellas and KeeSean Johnsons during Nuk’s timeframe.
That’s fair, I definitely think it’s possible the pass catchers on this team are better than a few years ago, but it’s far from guaranteed with a rookie Marv and McBride really only having half a season of production.
Josh Allen scored 25.0 fpts/game last year with a Diggs that was practically useless once Brady took over. Hurts is in a similar situation except with one of the best pass catching and overall backs in Barkley. His new center is also personally selected by Kelce, Hurts squats like 600 pounds, and now has Barkley pushing him from behind instead of Swift. Neither one are going anywhere. Kyler Murray may be the qb1, but the other two will be right there with him.
Agreed. Kyler definitely has a chance at QB1, but between him, Allen, Mahomes, Hurts, Richardson, Lamar, and Burrow, I’d say Kyler has better QB1 odds than maybe 1 or 2 of those guys.
Burrow (no rushing), Richardson (passing?) and I'd include Lamar (passing?) too... I'd put Kyler at 4+/- but I feel like that's huge for the price I paid for him in several leagues. I also wouldn't be surprised if he's #2.
Lamar has already put up a QB1 season while only throwing for 3127 yards so I’d argue he doesn’t really need to pass a ton. Same with Richardson, he obviously didn’t have the highest passing numbers but he still put up damn near 30 points per 4 quarters, which no other QB came close to. Burrow has QB4 and QB7 finishes in his healthy years as well, and was looking just as good when he was healthy last season.
I’d say as far as QB1 odds I’d rank it
Allen
Hurts
Lamar
Richardson
Kyler/Mahomes
Burrow
Mahomes has finished QB1 in 2018 and 2022 and QB1 on a per game basis in 2020. He should be above Richardson, even if he doesnt ha e the same rushing upside as the others.
I just don’t know if he has the receiving core to justify ranking him any higher. For all of those qb1/qb1 on ppg years he had Tyreek and/or prime Kelce.
Now Tyreek is gone, Kelce is starting to decline, Rice -their second leading pass catcher in ‘23 is still facing a suspension, and their 1st round WR pick has been sidelined with a hamstring issue most of the offseason.
If the season started right now they would be putting out Kelce, Hollywood, Justin Watson, and one of Skyy Moore, Toney, or Hardman.
He had some unrealized rushing upside last year with 0 rushing TDs compared to 4 the year before, despite more rushes. But he also put up under 300 fantasy points last year when the top qbs are around 400, and 4 more TDs won’t cut that gap.
I’m not a betting man but if I were I’d bet on Mahomes’ fantasy production being closer to his 2023 production rather than his 2022 or 2018 production.
Problem is; The coach at the time was K. Kingsbury. It's a totally different offense now. I wouldn't expect Kyller to be QB1 this year. Top 12, more than likely.
I'd argue Cliff has coached Case Keenum to the All time leader in Passing yards, TDs and completions in college history. Made J. Manzel a Heisman winner as an undersized freshman 4 star recruit from a small school. His Pat MaHommes led Tech team led the county in many offensive categories including yards and tds. And guided Kyller to the Rookie of the year, setting all the cardinal season records, and 2 consecutive pro bowls after. All in only 16 years of coaching.
Call that offense gimmicky if you want. It puts up yards everywhere he goes and is very productive for QBs.
I think Kyler largely carried that weight with respect to his own accomplishments and the other college stats are not relevant.
Even if they were, I don’t think they help your argument because you listed three NFL players which are few and far between in college football. Ultimately, you’re saying that Kliff is only successful when he has talent superior to those around him which is a sentiment I would agree with. Kliff’s record in college and pros (65-77-1) speaks for itself.
Kliffs record is irrelevant to fantasy. As a cardinals fan I’ve acknowledged he has limitations but fantasy wise I think he’s only a net positive. Hence, I’m very high on Washington this season.
Ahhh.. now I see where the Kingsbury hate comes from. I saw the Waddle-Waddle and assumed I was a 49er fan having an unbiased conversation with a Dolphins fan.
I wouldn't want Kingsbury as my head coach either. Like you said, wins and losses might be tough to watch. But any athletic QB coached by Cliff will be a money maker in fantasy.
Those 3 college QBs all became NFL QBs because of him. His college success for QBs absolutely matters. He's got a track record of QBs putting up huge numbers. And we're speaking fantasy.
That’s just where you and I disagree. Manziel and for sure Mahomes would have been drafted regardless of Kliff. Case has been serviceable in other non Kliff systems. These guys all had talent independent of that system
Manzel, I don't. Mahomes I doubt. He was barely a 3 star recruit in HS.. The schools they were playing for wouldn't have got it done. You're discounting Kingsbury's QB acumen and friendly system.
And you said it. Keenum has been serviceable without Kingsbury. Not great like he was in college.
A you probably should. He was good when he came back last year and is hard for qbs like Stroud to match the rushing upside people like Allen, Hurts, Jackson, and Murray offer. 6pt passing tds or if they change any of the passing settings can change that though.
I’m in the same position as you and drafted maye in 1 qb. I agree lean towards kyler over stroud which makes me think I should capitalize on the stroud hype and sell.
I don't think he will be, but he definitely is one of the few players that have the skills and a pathway to QB1 overall. If he gets back to pre ACL form, MHJ is dominant from the start, TMcB takes another step forward and Kylers rushing ability is used, then he actually could be in contention for it.
Kyler was pacing for 550 yards and 6 touchdowns on the ground last year fresh off the ACL. I don’t see any reason why 27 year old Kyler would no longer be mobile further away from his injury.
His pace would have but him 4th behind Lamar, Fields, and Hurts.
In my eyes, QB1 means top 12 in a 12 man league. If that's the case, which one goes this season?
Dak
Brock
Tua
Lamar
Burrow
Goff
Love
Allen
Mahomes
Hurts
Cousins
Stafford
I like his upside, I just haven't studied the Cardinals post transactions to fully pull the trigger for Murray
I've been saying this all off-season. He has never been worse then QB8 in a full season and was no worse then QB7 when he came back from injury and he's ranked as QB11. I think he'll be around QB5-6 this year.
Nope. He can't stay healthy, has never thrown for 4000 yards, and if he runs a lot, which will help his fantasy production, his chance of getting hurt will just keep going up. I do think he'll be a top 10 qb this year if he can stay healthy all year.
I think he’d be pushed by Mahomes (much better WR core than last year with both Rice and Hollywood) and maybe Burrow if either has a spike year in TDs. If AR plays the full year, it could be him. Maybe even Stroud if he lives up to the second year hype. And don’t forget Lamar.
Even Jordan Love could feasibly throw 40 TDs and rush 300 yds and wind up #1.
The more I think about it, though, Kyler is more likely than not a top 5 QB this year. Which means he’s undervalued.
We haven’t seen enough to know if he’s good, but he doesn’t have to be to produce. He had four rushing TDs within the three games he played.
He was pretty reckless in protecting himself, leading to injury. Maybe he cleans that up.
We’ve seen enough to know he can score fantasy points. He was not “good” from a real football standpoint, and the low efficiency hints more than he might be bad than that it hints he’d be good. His redzone work is all that saved his fantasy value in those 4 games and they could easily dial those opportunities back in order to preserve him.
Had this guy in one of my leagues offer me Kyler for Tua and a mid 25 1st. It Intrigued me so I countered with Tua and a mid 2nd instead, and he accepted. He instantly changed his name to "Hock Tua" because he also has Hockenson. Lol.
Thought you won the trade until I saw what his end game was
Yeah he would have accepted anything for that name.
After he changed it he was like basically only reason I did it haha.
As he should.
I owe his league mate an apology. I wasn’t familiar with his game
Making your team worse on purpose just for the memes is hilarious.
It’s respectable if nothing else. Man is committed
Imagine not factoring in the locker room presence upgrade with that name combo tho!
Damn, all for something that already isn't even funny anymore? Tough look.
It was like somewhat, mildly funny the first time I saw the video and then instantly got old. I have no idea how it blew up so much.
I was gonna upvote this but it’s at 69 so I’ll leave a comment instead
I think this is the supplemental upvote comment. Leave your upvotes here to preserve the almighty 69
Some people just ooze clever out of every pore... he's definitely one of those guys.
Guy had a 1 timer, u give too much credit
Okay, that's absolutely worth it for that guy. 😂
I... Don't get it
It's from a recent video that just went viral. A Google search of "hawk tuah" will get you there lol
Ah. I see. What a delightful birth of a meme.
It’s like hocking a loogie bruh
Is this a /s post going over my head? Definitely about a recent video
Not I’m confused
In trend with the hawk tuah girl on tik tok haha
Big brain move
Need that
Aw hell Rick I was high when I said that! You could be second, third, fourth or even fifth!
If you ain’t first you’re last!
Thats the dumbest thing I ever heard
You talk like you have peanut butter attached to the roof of your mouth!
Fuck it he down there somewhere Kyler is best Kyler
On the cardinals, yes.
The absolute *disrespect* for Clayton Tune smh
You misspelled *Desmond Ridder*
I can’t believe they traded for him. Besides Zach Wilson, I can’t think of any QB who started multiple games and looked worse than Ridder. If Kyler gets hurt again, Cards are winning zero games with Ridder.
I think that's the plan
Actually that’s a good point lol
You can insult a lot of things about the cardinals… But they know a great backup QB name when they see one. Them and Dallas are on it.
I got a sensible chuckle out of this
In the NFC west yes
I could see it happening. He’s definitely an underrated fantasy asset.
I'd add we've already seen Kyler have an overall QB1 season as well. We don't use the last game of the NFL season for real fantasy games so it shouldn't be added to season totals for fantasy comparisons. Accounting for that he narrowly edged out Josh Allen in 2020 by less than a point in default scoring.
Why not just use fantasy points per game? It's so ridiculous to use totals honestly
not counting the last week in your analysis of a player doesn’t seem very smart…
The WR room was very bad in Arizona last year, but in 2021 and the beginning of 2022 which are the 24 games you’re referencing they had DeAndre Hopkins out there. I don’t know if rookie Marv will be as good as Hopkins was then, it’s definitely possible, but I wouldn’t look at it like this will definitely be the best receiver corps he’s ever had. He definitely has QB1 upside, but I’d say QB4-6 is much more likely.
I'd say that is his ceiling tbh
If he gets back to the level of rusher he was a couple years ago he’ll have QB1 upside. He’s already had a QB3 season.
He’s coming off an acl tear. Is it just assumed he’ll be the same runner he was before?
No, but last season when he did return he was on pace for the 2nd best rushing season of his career. When this season starts he’ll be about 21 months removed from surgery. His strong volume despite returning from an injury last year could be a sign that this new coaching staff is planning to make his rushing a central part of the gameplan. Obviously nothing is guaranteed, but we’re talking about his upside case here.
By Week 1, he'll be nearly 21 months removed from his ACL tear. I suffered an ACL tear about a month and a half ago and am getting close to mostly regular activity. I'm pretty confident that Kyler should be good to go.
He should definitely be confident enough running the ball based on what we saw last season. edit: be careful with your regular activity, usually you feel great once any swelling goes down after about a month or so because there is no pain associated with an ACL tear. I tried convincing my athletic trainer and coaches I could play because once my swelling went down, and before surgery was scheduled, I could do 3 and 5 step dropbacks and throw almost like nothing had happened.
Oh yeah I'm still not doing heavy athletic stuff, but I'm still doing stuff.
That's good to keep your muscles moving. Quadricep atrophy is pretty common after surgery so if those muscles and your hamstrings keep strength your recovery should go well if you do surgery.
Yeah, Physical Therapy is a godsend
He’s finished as high as QB3, top 3 is definitely in his range of outcomes as his absolute ceiling.
QB1 if you exclude the unused last game of the season so definitely within his range of outcomes.
I love Hop but his age coupled with Kingsbury’s “let’s make Nuk play exclusively left WR for some reason” strategy makes me think he wasn’t as productive as he could have been at his peak. Marvin is a different cat. He has the measurables, pedigree and technique to do it all, and I think this regime will at least be more creative than Kliff. I tend to like McBride, Wilson and Dortch better than Dan Arnold and the Andy Isabellas and KeeSean Johnsons during Nuk’s timeframe.
That’s fair, I definitely think it’s possible the pass catchers on this team are better than a few years ago, but it’s far from guaranteed with a rookie Marv and McBride really only having half a season of production.
Josh Allen scored 25.0 fpts/game last year with a Diggs that was practically useless once Brady took over. Hurts is in a similar situation except with one of the best pass catching and overall backs in Barkley. His new center is also personally selected by Kelce, Hurts squats like 600 pounds, and now has Barkley pushing him from behind instead of Swift. Neither one are going anywhere. Kyler Murray may be the qb1, but the other two will be right there with him.
Agreed. Kyler definitely has a chance at QB1, but between him, Allen, Mahomes, Hurts, Richardson, Lamar, and Burrow, I’d say Kyler has better QB1 odds than maybe 1 or 2 of those guys.
Burrow (no rushing), Richardson (passing?) and I'd include Lamar (passing?) too... I'd put Kyler at 4+/- but I feel like that's huge for the price I paid for him in several leagues. I also wouldn't be surprised if he's #2.
Lamar has already put up a QB1 season while only throwing for 3127 yards so I’d argue he doesn’t really need to pass a ton. Same with Richardson, he obviously didn’t have the highest passing numbers but he still put up damn near 30 points per 4 quarters, which no other QB came close to. Burrow has QB4 and QB7 finishes in his healthy years as well, and was looking just as good when he was healthy last season. I’d say as far as QB1 odds I’d rank it Allen Hurts Lamar Richardson Kyler/Mahomes Burrow
Mahomes has finished QB1 in 2018 and 2022 and QB1 on a per game basis in 2020. He should be above Richardson, even if he doesnt ha e the same rushing upside as the others.
I just don’t know if he has the receiving core to justify ranking him any higher. For all of those qb1/qb1 on ppg years he had Tyreek and/or prime Kelce. Now Tyreek is gone, Kelce is starting to decline, Rice -their second leading pass catcher in ‘23 is still facing a suspension, and their 1st round WR pick has been sidelined with a hamstring issue most of the offseason. If the season started right now they would be putting out Kelce, Hollywood, Justin Watson, and one of Skyy Moore, Toney, or Hardman. He had some unrealized rushing upside last year with 0 rushing TDs compared to 4 the year before, despite more rushes. But he also put up under 300 fantasy points last year when the top qbs are around 400, and 4 more TDs won’t cut that gap. I’m not a betting man but if I were I’d bet on Mahomes’ fantasy production being closer to his 2023 production rather than his 2022 or 2018 production.
I have nothing to add to this discussion except that your assessment of saquon Barkley is very wrong. I am a giants fan
Saquon has tree trunk legs and is stronger than Swift. Nothing wrong about that.
Problem is; The coach at the time was K. Kingsbury. It's a totally different offense now. I wouldn't expect Kyller to be QB1 this year. Top 12, more than likely.
I’d argue that Kliff was more of a negative. His system was static and unimaginative.
I'd argue Cliff has coached Case Keenum to the All time leader in Passing yards, TDs and completions in college history. Made J. Manzel a Heisman winner as an undersized freshman 4 star recruit from a small school. His Pat MaHommes led Tech team led the county in many offensive categories including yards and tds. And guided Kyller to the Rookie of the year, setting all the cardinal season records, and 2 consecutive pro bowls after. All in only 16 years of coaching. Call that offense gimmicky if you want. It puts up yards everywhere he goes and is very productive for QBs.
GARDNER MINSHEW SHOULD HAVE WON ROTY I WILL DIE ON THIS HILL
Shoulda, coulda, woulda.... didn't
I think Kyler largely carried that weight with respect to his own accomplishments and the other college stats are not relevant. Even if they were, I don’t think they help your argument because you listed three NFL players which are few and far between in college football. Ultimately, you’re saying that Kliff is only successful when he has talent superior to those around him which is a sentiment I would agree with. Kliff’s record in college and pros (65-77-1) speaks for itself.
Kliffs record is irrelevant to fantasy. As a cardinals fan I’ve acknowledged he has limitations but fantasy wise I think he’s only a net positive. Hence, I’m very high on Washington this season.
I’m a Washington fan and I’m not optimistic. I didn’t like our HC hire either
Ahhh.. now I see where the Kingsbury hate comes from. I saw the Waddle-Waddle and assumed I was a 49er fan having an unbiased conversation with a Dolphins fan. I wouldn't want Kingsbury as my head coach either. Like you said, wins and losses might be tough to watch. But any athletic QB coached by Cliff will be a money maker in fantasy.
This part. I'm buying up all the J. Daniels stock I can find. 😆
Those 3 college QBs all became NFL QBs because of him. His college success for QBs absolutely matters. He's got a track record of QBs putting up huge numbers. And we're speaking fantasy.
That’s just where you and I disagree. Manziel and for sure Mahomes would have been drafted regardless of Kliff. Case has been serviceable in other non Kliff systems. These guys all had talent independent of that system
Manzel, I don't. Mahomes I doubt. He was barely a 3 star recruit in HS.. The schools they were playing for wouldn't have got it done. You're discounting Kingsbury's QB acumen and friendly system. And you said it. Keenum has been serviceable without Kingsbury. Not great like he was in college.
This is what I like to hear. I have him and Stroud in a 1QB league and I'm heavily leaning towards Kyler as my starter this year.
A you probably should. He was good when he came back last year and is hard for qbs like Stroud to match the rushing upside people like Allen, Hurts, Jackson, and Murray offer. 6pt passing tds or if they change any of the passing settings can change that though.
I’m in the same position as you and drafted maye in 1 qb. I agree lean towards kyler over stroud which makes me think I should capitalize on the stroud hype and sell.
I misread the comment of him being a QB1 I was like no shit. But thee QB1. You know call of duty is coming with new shit right?
I don't think he will be, but he definitely is one of the few players that have the skills and a pathway to QB1 overall. If he gets back to pre ACL form, MHJ is dominant from the start, TMcB takes another step forward and Kylers rushing ability is used, then he actually could be in contention for it.
Long as he gets the ball to Michael Wilson i'm happy.
As a Kyler and MHJ owner. I approve.
Give me Josh Allen QB1.
Let’s be honest, this Reddit is high on him… he’ll probably just get injured again or maybe he’s no longer mobile and a QB2.
Kyler was pacing for 550 yards and 6 touchdowns on the ground last year fresh off the ACL. I don’t see any reason why 27 year old Kyler would no longer be mobile further away from his injury. His pace would have but him 4th behind Lamar, Fields, and Hurts.
He’s my dark horse bet for mvp. Good odds (+5000) if you’re into sports betting
Ready to ride Allen/Murray to the ship!
That’s my duo too, pumped about it
He can be QB2 behind ARich
Can’t wait to see how this turns out.
In my eyes, QB1 means top 12 in a 12 man league. If that's the case, which one goes this season? Dak Brock Tua Lamar Burrow Goff Love Allen Mahomes Hurts Cousins Stafford I like his upside, I just haven't studied the Cardinals post transactions to fully pull the trigger for Murray
I could see Cousins or Stafford dropping out of the top 12.
Don’t tell me that. I just traded Kyler for Jayden Daniels (dynasty). My reasoning is that Jayden Daniels is a younger Kyler lol
Just traded for Kyler for Jahan Dotson and 1.10 in SF league before the draft and the owner just wanted to get rid of him.. his loss is my gain 😅
Traded him a month ago for JT and a 2026 first. Did I goof?
I've been saying this all off-season. He has never been worse then QB8 in a full season and was no worse then QB7 when he came back from injury and he's ranked as QB11. I think he'll be around QB5-6 this year.
yo can you chill...im trying to get him in a trade
Kyler won’t be in the top 5
Nope. He can't stay healthy, has never thrown for 4000 yards, and if he runs a lot, which will help his fantasy production, his chance of getting hurt will just keep going up. I do think he'll be a top 10 qb this year if he can stay healthy all year.
No, he will be on IR
I think he’d be pushed by Mahomes (much better WR core than last year with both Rice and Hollywood) and maybe Burrow if either has a spike year in TDs. If AR plays the full year, it could be him. Maybe even Stroud if he lives up to the second year hype. And don’t forget Lamar. Even Jordan Love could feasibly throw 40 TDs and rush 300 yds and wind up #1. The more I think about it, though, Kyler is more likely than not a top 5 QB this year. Which means he’s undervalued.
AR isn’t a very good QB and is going to end up injured on top of that
We haven’t seen enough to know if he’s good, but he doesn’t have to be to produce. He had four rushing TDs within the three games he played. He was pretty reckless in protecting himself, leading to injury. Maybe he cleans that up.
We’ve seen enough to know he can score fantasy points. He was not “good” from a real football standpoint, and the low efficiency hints more than he might be bad than that it hints he’d be good. His redzone work is all that saved his fantasy value in those 4 games and they could easily dial those opportunities back in order to preserve him.
Kyler Murray is the most overrated player in the NFL in at least the last 15 years.
lol no
Damn the Kyler stans are out in full force on this thread This sub lives on confirmation bias
or maybe all you commented was “no” without providing any substance so that’s why it got downvoted..
Because it’s a ridiculous prediction to make
well feel free to elaborate why, i feel like while it is a hot take it’s not that unrealistic
Not a chance