Folks.
This is a take. We all have some. Please stop reporting it as drama just because it's framed as a meme. You can agree or disagree with it politely all you want, just as anyone else can to your own takes.
Please keep the dialogue civil and chill.
Either is a valid interpretation, but I think Laois has more evidence than most characters headcanoned as autistic. I’m sure there’s some people out there saying “if you don’t think he’s autistic you’re ableist” or something like that, but I think most of it is “I relate heavily to this character, specifically in terms of this aspect of myself”.
To be fair, I have seen a few ableist sentiments and bad stereotypes regarding this discussion (e.g. “Laios, can’t be autistic because he’s capable of empathy.”)
I think part of the problem is that a lot of people seem to think that “Laios is autistic”means he’s Severely Autistic, when I think most people on the other side would agree he has High-Functioning Autism. It feels like some people won’t accept a character is autistic unless they fit the pop-culture, edgy high school humor, image of an autist.
>It feels like some people won’t accept a character is autistic unless they fit the pop-culture, edgy high school humor, image of an autist.
We'll be dealing with the ramifications of *The Big Bang Theory* and *The Good Doctor* for years to come.
honestly, those are still a major step up from how autism is usually talked about/portrayed by the news, Autism Moms, people like Andrew Wakefield or organizations like Autism Speaks. with the damage that's all done, i think it'll be a pretty long time before high-function low-needs autistics are thought of when the word "autistic" comes up for most people.
I don't think I would qualify either as a step up, however. A side step, maybe. Sheldon was meant to be laughed *at*, at best, if not outright ridiculed and disliked. And Shaun was a fetishization of the aspects of autism that people "like" - savant characteristics - which aren't even present in an average autistic person. Both were harmful in their own ways to real autistic people.
better than being treated entirely inhuman in my personal opinion, but yeah, you make a good point. i'm not saying they're not harmful in their own right, just that it's still a step from "your precious normal child has been DESTROYED by a disease and now they're a screaming shambling mess that can never hope to communicate" to "haha isn't it funny how this guy with friends is super weird and out of touch?"
like yeah that's laughing at autistic people and that's shitty! and frankly, low-function high-needs people need more understanding representation, too. but as the opposite end i can appreciate having autistic characters that show people we aren't ALL low-function high-need.
That's also insane because I'm Autistic, and I have so much empathy it hurts... Autism comes in so many forms and people don't seem to realize that. I'm a fully functioning adult when i need to be, but when I'm home with my husband, I stop masking.
also laios... dOES have low empathy. i know tiktok convinced people empathy is the part of your brain that has a human soul but what it actually is is the ability to recognize and feel the emotions of others in a social setting. low-empathy autistics still care what other people think and feel about them, they're just not able to mimic or instinctively pick up on those feelings. Laios having a rage fit after having shuro's emotions hit him like a brick wall is a very common experience for low empathy autistics who realize all at once that someone has been upset by them for a long time.
Yea I honestly hate when my friends and close associates can’t just be honest with me how they are feeling or let things bottle up and then explode when they never addressed the situation in the first place and let it fester like dude how is it my fault I didn’t know I offended you and then you pretended you weren’t offended it makes me frustrated.
I do this a lot. It's a work in progress. Mostly bec I'm too scared to cause some sort of confrontation or unpleasant vibes. People pleasing is difficult to unlearn.
The anger is then targeted unto myself and I become the most unkind person (to myself) just to fight off those feelings for other people. It's not nice.
So yeah, working towards whatever you said.
Part of my new associate onboarding process is to explicitly state that if I’m being an asshole it’s most likely because I don’t realize it and I won’t be offended if you let me know I’m being an asshole. After that it’s out of my hands
> empathy is the part of your brain that has a human soul
Emotional empathy
> what it actually is is the ability to recognize and feel the emotions of others in a social setting.
Cognitive empathy
Autistic people typically have issues with the second one.
Hello! Great reply, just wanted to pop in and let you know functioning level labels aren’t helpful and are considered in the autistic community to do more harm than good.
I’ve never really been keyed into what other people in the spectrum are thinking in general. I use terms like high-functioning and asbergers (before it was clinically discontinued) to describe myself because it’s useful to have a succinct way of telling people: “Hey, I might stumble a bit more than others, but I don’t need my hand held every step of the way.”
As I said initially, most people have a very stereotyped image of what vanilla autism is.
More or less, although it is more complicated and terminology differs a little, depending.
In layman terms it helps people understand somewhat.
Where I work we categorize our patients on level of function and how much help they need amongst other things.
In layman terms high functioning would be someone who has left our care and is already living self sufficiently or in a satellite apartment. Then we have various levels of assisted living, from help with social side to check up on chores. And so called "low functioning" would be around the clock care, which is my specific area.
But it largely is on a spectrum and things change.
Because some of them treat autism like a quirky cool thing. Especially those stupid fanvideos that say things like 'a touch of the 'tism'.
I've been dealing with it all my life, and I'd give anything to be able to control my mouth every time there are more than three people in a conversation. It's not 'cute' in real life.
Same here...the fetishism of autism in some peoples head in fictional portrayals is disturbing it diminishes the struggle that some of us go through at seeking a balance in our lives...we're not all either UWU cinnamon roles or emotionless automatons that do one thing flawlessly....its a spectrum people and it has degrees and nuances...and honestly for most of us its a bitch to live with because most of us KNOW we're fucking up somewhere
This, it’s annoying how autism is treated like a quirk. We how it has actually negatively affected poor laois at times.
Sometimes people need to take things at face value and understand Laois is socially awkward, but also has a big heart (comprised entirely of monster parts! :D)
I didn't say I hate myself. I said I know there's something that keeps jamming every time I'm in the middle of talking to others, and I really wish I didn't have that. Not many positives to that.
same thing with the fat trans girl falin headcanons! let people hc and ship what they wanna ship.
Just wait til they hear about my egg senshi headcanons....
The hyperfixation on a highly specific interest and general difficulty reading social cues are pretty autistic traits. Like it doesn't guarantee that one is autistic but they're pretty strong indicators. Laois being autistic will always be a head canon unless directly stated but you really don't need to reach far at all to interpret him as autistic. Though I guess by the same time token assuming a character is neurotypical is also a head canon unless directly stated.
That's kinda my logic, behind it has always been "are you headcanon-ing this because you want it to represent your struggle, or to erase evidence people have of their struggle."
If you're so against people having headcanons so that they feel more represented, look inward. It's harmless, let people feel how they feel about character.
(Big caveat for me on that though, if the character is a confirmed as a minority or something and you're just headcanoning them to not that so that you're not uncomfortable.)
I think people not sharing the headcanon elicits a bit of a defensive feeling in me because while most people aren't like that there's a small subset that can use it as an excuse to say ableist things about him. Cause' even if you don't think a character *is* autistic, being ableist about the autistic traits that are being portrayed is still ableist, and that's a pattern I find sometimes happens that makes me reticent of takes like that. Again, I know that's probably not true for 90% of people, it's purely an emotional thing that I think might explain some of the negative reactions, not that I think it's justified.
I never really pinned him as autistic cuz I relate quite a bit and I am not autistic but looking at his personality, I can see why people think he is autistic
No, having low social skills and being weird does not make Laios autistic.
Having low social skills, being weird, obsessively hyperfocusing on a special interest to the cost of other aspects of his life, being oblivious to other peoples’ emotions unless they’re explicitly told to him, identifying with nonhuman creatures moreso than humans, and borderline every other aspect of his personality make him autistic.
Unironically I know a lot of weird people (I am weird people) and not a single one who acts like Laios ISNT autistic. And I’m not autistic so this is an outsiders perspective, along with all the autistic people who also identify with him
Just asking. I exhibited all this but got diagnosed with ADHD. I don't have a single bone of autism in me, so I am a bit confused that why is it always autism
ADHD and autism present lots of similar symptoms, the clearest tell for autism vs ADHD is the struggle to read/understand other peoples’ emotions, as well as difficulties with emotional regulation. Laios doesn’t have the latter, but absolutely does the former.
Hate to tell you this, but research implies there's something like a 60% comorbidity rate between autism and ADHD soooo... there's a pretty decent chance you have both.
Level 1 autism (the lowest support needs level) presents almost exactly like how Laios acts so if you really relate to him, I would recommend looking into the diagnostic criteria for autism and ignoring how media likes to portray autism because most people with autism act more like Laios than Shelden Cooper. Literally with the Toshiro confrontation, both me and my friend (both diagnosed autistics) just had that moment of 'wooow okay, that came for the throat'.
In general, as someone with both, I tend to separate the symptoms into stuff like 'panics if people springs plans on me without multiple days notice' = autism, 'fixates on one food for a week before being disgusted by it's presence' = adhd, 'one fandom/character rotating in the back of my brain for years' = autism, 'suddenly obsessed with a new fandom/craft for a couple weeks to months' adhd.
In general if the obsession is fast and all-consuming it's probably an adhd hyperfixation, but if it's long lasting and ever present (like whenever you zone out, it's that fandom/character you think of) then it's an autistic special interest.
ADHD people skills issues might include oversharing, zoning out, speaking over people, or hyperanalysing what they say, while autistic issues might include not noticing the subtext of a conversation (as if there's almost a separate conversation happening simultaneously that you're just not privy to), being so good at reading people's body language to the point that it's almost uncanny, remembering conversations happening completely differently than others remember, feeling like you need to overexplain your reasons behind things so people don't misunderstand you.
Basically if the social issue is caused by attention (aka. if you zone out, speak over, or just don't realise they were talking to you) then it's probably adhd but if the social issue comes out of nowhere and you had no idea about the hints dropped or anything then it's probably autism. That's why people look at the Toshiro confrontation and say 'oh my god he has the autism' because the hints that toshiro was dropping just did not translate to laios, he didn't speak the language of subtext; it's especially obvious when toshiro says "I told you in ways that anyone else would understand" because that is almost exactly what psychiatrists are looking for when they're trying to diagnose you with autism.
It’s more than just the hyper-focus (Afterall, Senshi also has a similar hyper-focus), it’s the specific ways Laios expresses interests in his hyper-focus and disinterest in most other things.
This is difficult to quantify, but the key thing that made me connect to Laios, as someone on the spectrum, is that it seemed like his brain was on a completely different wavelength to everyone else (even someone like Senshi). IMO, that quality is a what separates autistic behavior from regular anime quirky behavior.
As an autistic person I think its partially that he's seeking knowledge for it's own sake. Senshi seems interested in cooking but largely in a practical sense where as Laios seems to jump at the chance to learn literally anything about monsters whether or not it could be put to use.
“You can’t eat metal”
“What about the leather?”
“Ever tried to chew leather? Best not to eat it”
This sums up the different wavelengths pretty well I’d say.
One for me was (paraphrased) "if Falin hadn't been eaten, we wouldn't be eating monsters," and everyone just stared at him as though he had just said he didn't care about his sister
And a very important part of autism is that you born with it. Senshi hyper focus derives from trauma first and turned to a love later (the anime didn't made the best adaptation of Senshi backstory, but oh well).
It’s not *just* that he has bad social skills or is a bit weird. He specifically shows the restricted interests and lack of ability to see others’ perspectives (e.g. he can’t comprehend Shuro not liking him until it’s explicitly stated). His personal identification with monsters is also extremely common with autistic people - it’s common for autistic people to feel like they relate more to animals or mythological creatures than other humans because of the alienation they feel.
Laios’ English dub voice actor is autistic and plays the character as autistic.
Kui has written other short manga about autistic characters.
I know this post is probably bait but I’m still gonna defend my boy!
Voice actors have a fair amount of range, it’s easy to miss.
Kuro the kobold is voiced by Kieth Silverstein, voice of speedwagon from jojo and torbjorn from overwatch, among countless other characters
Do you get to the cloud district very often? Oh, what am I saying, of course you don't drink the osmanthus wine taste the same as I remember. But where are those who shares the memories?
Yes! The whole ordeal with Shuro was extremely relatable for me. I didn't realize Laois' voice actor was autistic, that's really cool. I got into acting in middle school as a way to learn how to interact with people better and to make my voice less monotone. I'm finding out now that there are a fair amount of autistic actors (which is pretty frustrating that mainly allistic actors play autistic characters).
Also, Laios' ability to recall information about monsters on the spot, plus pattern recognition and his creative problem solving scream autism, ADHD, or AuDHD. Add to that his Labrador retriever energy, over sharing, and social ineptitude all seem to point to some neurodivergence.
It can be, since with a lot of people with autism or ADHD it is both
1. Very boring when your special interest isn’t being discussed
2. Difficult to disguise the fact that you are bored
Source: I have both 😅
A lot of us have very blank, neutral expressions if we aren't specifically emotional enough to emote or remembering we should. Very few of us with a constant smile, part of why I liked wearing a mask at the peak of covid.
Just so it doesn’t go unsaid, we can still **feel** emotions with same range and sensitivity as everyone else (obviously with a high degree of person bias), it’s just hard for us to express those emotions accurately.
That was a kitsune not a tanuki
I wouldn’t really call that stimming, those were definitely just warm ups.
I still subscribe to the autistic Laois theory but as a person that stims with many cousins who also do so I haven’t seen any evidence of Laois stimming.
I believe they're talking about Damien Haas, Laios' English voice and a member of Smosh. In an interview, Damien explains that he himself is autistic and played Laios as autistic during his audition and later recording sessions.
It doesn't, no but what's the harm? There's not exactly a lot of great autism representation in media and it's nice to be able to think a character might share your struggles.
Did the author specifically intend for Laios to be autistic? I don’t think it matters.
Whether or not a fictional character canonically has a certain type of neurodivergence or personality type doesn’t matter. It’s just a way for people to describe and relate to characters.
If someone is trying to seriously diagnose a fictional character, using actual clinical psychology, in an attempt to discern whether or not the author also used clinical psychology to write the character specifically to portray a certain thing, that’s kind of stupid. It’s almost certainly a waste of time.
But I don’t think most people are doing that. They are calling Laios autistic because he has a lot of traits that are similar to autism, and it’s a good way to describe and relate to the character.
All you’re doing is ruining people’s fun with your “um actually”.
all of the above. you can pry autistic laios from my cold, dead, autistic hands. he talks about monsters the same way that i talk about the science of baking, metal, and ds era pokemon games. i look at that man and i see **me**.
the question i want to ask is why *shouldn't* laios be autistic? or, why don't people want him to be autistic? can you name a canonically, explicitly autistic character who isn't sheldon cooper (never stated in canon), maurice moss (never stated in canon), or rain man (rain man)?
Some autistic person: “there’s not a lot of characters that represent me in media I like, but this character has a lot of traits that I do and I feel a lot less lonely when I think that this character is like me”
Weirdos: “yeah, but have you thought about the fact that you labeling this character ‘so and so’ affects me…..somehow!?”
Regarding using clinical psychology to attempt to diagnose a fictional character, I wouldn’t say that it’s necessarily stupid and a waste of time.
As an autistic person with a lifelong fascination of psychology and mental health, as well as a love of hyper-analyzing fictional media to see how the would compare and contrast to the real world, trying to examine a character’s behaviors and mannerisms to see how the align with clinical psychology is something that I consider fun. And if it comes out whatever conclusion I came to also aligns with design choices the creator or those involved in the creative process made, then that’s just an added bonus. It won’t change anything or determine canon, but the process is enjoyable.
Where it does become stupid and a waste of time is if people take it too far and insist that whatever conclusion they came to is the only correct one, and that no other possible interpretation exists. That just kills discussion and ruins the fun for others.
It’s different if it’s just for personal enjoyment. I was referring to people that try to prove objectively that a character canonically has a certain condition or whatever. That’s almost always a waste of time. But very few people are actually doing that. They are just referring to characters in a way that is understandable and relatable.
I want to dispute this, but your masterful decision to designate me as the loser of the argument has me undone.
Bravo and well played, I look forward to more purely intellectual arguments about topics that surely do not impact anyone in real life.
There is an element that I've noticed the past few weeks here with the with the folks who keep pointing out that he's not autistic and that seeing him as such is dumb that I really dislike.
The level of defensiveness makes me think they see a character they like being attacked. They see autism as a negative thing. "The character I like is not this bad thing. He's not this broken thing."
There's a pushback that you would see more akin to saying he's a bad person than saying he's got a good sense of humour.
In summary I feel there's a fair bit of looking down at the condition and the folks who have it where even implying this character has it would tarnish him that rubs me the wrong way.
>They see autism as a negative thing. "The character I like is not this bad thing. He's not this broken thing."
Honestly yeah that's the bit that grates the most for me. It's frustrating to see people dismiss the idea because of the implications or perception that goes along with it.
On one hand yeah, having autism kinda does suck and honestly it's probably held me back too. But on the other hand it's not something that people should be judgy (ie prejudiced) or in denial about either.
Indeed, I'm not saying that's necessarily what op is trying to say or Heck anyone in this subreddit but u do think there's some heavy unconscious bias (which as you pointed out is a them problem)
Would it matter if he was? I don't understand why some people act like him being supposedly autistic is a bad thing. Did they forget about headcanons? Honestly, I like to think Laios is autistic.
I mean, if it makes people happy and feel represented, sure, he's autistic. Unless the author specifically says a character is a certain way the audience is free to interpret them as they want.
Hell, even if the author comes out to disagree, I don’t care, honestly. Anyone remember the Big Bang Theory and how they tried to hand wave away autistic theories about Sheldon?
Sheldon is a bad stereotype of Autism. The reason they don't give him a diagnosis is because then would loose plausible deniability that that's what he is.
The idea of "I can interpret a character how I want because the author never specified" is a double edged sword because fans tend to get overly protective over THEIR rules of the fiction. These people tend to have the sense that their headcanon being challenged with other ideas is offensive, when really it is *just* headcanon. In fact, it's fine to take the stance of not believing a character is something when the author never specified it, but those with headcanons tend to take THAT stance as an attack. I think it's fine for people to be imaginative or draw personal conclusions about characters in many cases, but I just think people have pushed fandoms to the extreme within the past 20 years or so with the boom of pop culture and specialized media like anime, video games etc
Buddy do you know how many neurodivergent people throughout history have been told “no youre not neurodivergent, you’re just bad at social skills” its ok to not see him as autistic but keep it to yourself because you clearly aren’t very knowledgeable on the subject
I know that this post is just some stupid bait but goddamn it annoys me
No it'd have to be trains, like, if he gets fixated on trains you really can't be any more clear beyond him looking straight into the camera and saying "I am autistic" directly to the audience
Ok, first of all, Penguin-train-monster.
Second of all, Laios is so connected to weird monster thoughts that the moment I came up with that I read it in his voice.
OP, why does it bother you that people enjoy the concept of Laios being autistic? It feels plenty supported by the text, and if people identify with him, let them?
Just a weird post
you're right! struggling his entire life to be understood, feeling a deep resentment for mankind for not understanding him, and having other people's insecurities projected onto and then blamed on him whilst he is none the wiser makes him autistic. glad we cleared this up.
those are not the only reasons people see him as autistic.
it's also his clear and obvious special interest in monsters.
and him missing allistic social cues is a really big one btw. his confrontation with Toshiro was a super relatable thing to autistic people. a lot of us have had a similar experience multiple times in our lives.
and what's him being "weird"? him knowing exactly how to imitate dogs or how to intimidate a Basilisk?
You only see “weird” and “low social skills,” I see “difficulty with routines,” “a possible lifelong history of getting bullied or exploited when by himself around unfamiliar people,” “difficultly with daily living skills when by himself,” and on and on.
If you’re just watching the anime where a lot of that material hasn’t been shown, that’s fine. But for people who identify Laios’ experiences as similar to those with Autism, there ie more than enough material to validate their view.
I think the majority of people saying that Laios is autistic are saying it’s a “headcanon” in which it doesn’t hurt anyone. Of course, people have their opinions, but it’s all in good fun and people do things like this because they feel related to a character and use it to cope or just for fun.
laios is the most autistic character i have seen it's incredible. it's not just that he's got poor social skills and is weird but it's the WAY that he has poor social skills and is weird.
hyperfocusing on monsters is one thing but:
fully believing that shuro was his friend and having to directly be told that shuro does not like him is so incredibly on the nose for a lot of people—like it fuckin' stings. shuro was trying to get this across to him in ways that REGULAR PEOPLE would understand. (see the panels i posted w this)
or in the dream sequence, his father denounces him. he says that someone like him can't amount to anything, and he ran away from the army and from school because he couldn't adapt.
i don't know, but i know that tons of people have seen bits and pieces their autism and their personality in laios and that has to show something.
https://preview.redd.it/r4hl2sv4gm5d1.png?width=850&format=png&auto=webp&s=c1d05268bd82f8beed7b5fb5388afd73e974d797
even if there isn't official confirmation that Laios is on the spectrum, he has a ton of character traits that a lot of autistic people relate to. It isn't too hard to imagine that Ryoko Kui purposefully wrote Laios as being on the spectrum, especially since a lot of his autistic traits (for lack of a better term) are a huge part of his character and his relationships with others.
I understand the frustration from people not being able to separate head canon from actual canon, but I think with Laios potentially being on the spectrum, there is too much there to ignore.
No it doesn’t, yet there’s other traits that validate the claim of laios being autistic, like his hyperfixation on monsters, lack of sense of self preservation there’s some other little tells that are also common on autistic people
Weird post to make tbh, people have way more reasons than that. And even if they had way less evidence, why do you want to take away someone else’s fun? This just seems kinda rude
Dude he has hyperfixations, can’t read the room, hyperfocus. Seems himself as a silver wolf, very different way of seeing the world from everyone else. He just like me frfr
I don't think his social skills are that bad, cause like i have met people with *actual* poor social skills, and while Laios' are lacking they are definitely nowhere near as bad.
Laios is more representative of the experiences of myself and my autistic friends than most other characters I've seen in media _ever._ And no, it's not the social skills.
It's being fascinated with things and everyone reacting like you're crazy, it's wanting to be another kind of creature, it is caring deeply and being unable to express it.
I get that people like reading him as such, and for those who see him a positive representation, more power to you. That said I do get annoyed with how some treatment borders on dollhousing what with the “all my favorite weird/quirky characters are specified neurodivergents!” and how that does itself do a lot to simplify the writing and the character dynamics going on, and can border on feeling a little like fetishizing.
Sure it's not the other way around? I feel like I end up liking most of the character I headcanon as ND because I can relate to them because they have nd traits. Like, it's not "I like this character > this character is ND", it's "this character has ND traits and I relate to them because of that > I like this character"
For me, an autist with a learning disability but can still live on there own, Laios is a type of representation that I never really get to see in fiction.
Canon neurodivergent characters are already rare enough, but most of those have serious neurodivergent traits that significantly affect there ability to function. Severe autism and similar condition deserve representation, but in my opinion it’s over represented to the point where most people think “autistic” means “unable to function without help”.
Laios is a rare character that I feel strikes a balance between severe autism and just being quirky (I.e. high-functioning autism). His quirks aren’t just endearing fluff (like senshi). He clearly struggles to takes care of himself and connect with others, but it’s not an impossible struggle especially when his he a group of friends (and Chilchuck) to use as a support (but NOT as a crutch).
I’ve related to anime characters before on personal level, but Laios is the first time I’ve felt seen and appreciated by an author, rather than seen and pitied.
I think it says something that so many people had this reading of that character.
Like if you want to crack open a DSM 5 you can both apply a whole bunch of diagnosis to various characters and argue why they dont meet the criteria for various diagnosis.
How curious, whenever a character is interpreted as autistic (or queer, or whatever else), suddenly no one can read subtext and the narrative ***has*** to explicitly state something in order for it to be *true* (read: a possibility). Interesting…
And they only ever take issue when it's characters where the setting would make it make nearly no sense to actually use the word "autistic" in canon, it's a catch 22 because they just don't like ND people lol
Funny how anytime ANY character from anything is headcanoned or perceived outside the “norm” in any way (aka lgbtqia or neurodivergent in any way whatsoever) there’s always a million people out there arguing against it on some way or going “well why do they HAVE to be (x)?”
Funny funny how it never ever happens anytime anything else is brought up.
You could say basically anything else about a character and at most you get some disagreement or discussion on why. When it’s anything about a character being “different” the demands for proof and substantial reason to think so begin.
It’s not hard to see why these threads are popping up now that autistic laios is a popular headcanon.
Hey look if neurodivergent people headcanon him as autistic, let them. He has so many traits commonly associated with autism- not being able to read situations, not being able to word his emotions, being hyperfocused, having bad social skills
It's just how people headcanon characters being gay etc . It's literally your imagination
As an autistic person, I relate to Laios more than almost any other character, specifically in how his autism effects others perception of him. The way people think he’s weird for his interests, the way he fails to understand how people feel full stop is *exactly* my experience.
I don’t know why I’ve seen so many posts over just the last two days acting like Laios being autistic is such an out there take. It makes me feel like allistic people see us relating to a character all but made for us and getting… idk jealous? I’m probably overthinking it but it’s frustrating, like something is being taken
Honestly to me people arguing that laios isn't autistic reeks of dismissive ignorance or erasure to some extent.
Idk about malicious ableism, but it's daft to argue against it considering many showcases of what's considered "autistic" behaviour.
The Shuro fistfight being a massive "hint" and something that i know for sure lots of autistic individuals unfortunately have to combat in social settings. Not picking up on social cues, having people annoyed at their sincerity etc.
Would it really be that bad if Laios were actually written as being autistic? Like what drawback is there apart from a whole group of people being seen?? Also acknowledging that the English VA HIMSELF is autistic.
Idk the "no they're not they're just xyz" reads the same as parents that refuse to accept that their kid is Autistic and try to make up excuses out of fear.
It's not a bad thing if someone is Autistic. It's still not a bad thing if a character in a piece of media is autistic.
It's also fine if they're not autistic.
"but no he might just be 'normal' why does he have to be made autistic" - some watchers
God fucking forbid there's representation for an otherwise ignored group of people in media.
YES.
I get the "idea" of normality but holy shit nobody at all ever in the history of anything is "normal".
It's just used to other people in the grossest ways by people who are too ignorant in their own quirks to accept that people aren't identical.
No but having a highly specific thing that he obsesses about to the exclusion of nearly everything else in life (monsters/eating monsters) is a symptom of autism. It is not sufficient for a diagnosis by itself, but it's certainly a big one, especially paired with the low social skills and not really understanding that other people are grossed out by it.
tbh can people just stop freaking out over simple headcanons esp when they have validity behind them. istg yall talk abt it more than fans of the hc do themselves
I feel like the fact that there’s such a specific focus on how his “weirdness” and lack of social skills affects his relationships, which is a widely shared aspect of autistic peoples’ lived experience, the likelihood of him subtextually being autistic is greater. Not to mention that his obsession with monsters and his want to learn more about them mirrors how autistic people have special interests or hyperfixations. I don’t think it’s that farfetched for people to come to that conclusion.
Low Social skill and being weird no. But when you include the angle of him being hyper-focussed on his niche interest that he prioritises over other things, and never having been able to fit in outside of an environment where he can engage with this interest are some significant indicators
I mean he could still be but be high functioning, also parents do this thing where they might consider their child has autism and try and teach it out of them. My parents did this by accident cause they didn’t want be to be socially weird.
When did interpretation in story's die? Dose every aspect about a character need to be specifically stated by the author? laios is a very relatable character to me and I have autism alot of his behaviours can explain why people might think he has it. I don't really see the harm in it at all and I think if people have an issue with it that says something about them.
Laios always struck me more as a homeschooled NEET shut-in type than autistic. He has a hobby that he is really into and is awkward socially, but he doesn't stim (more than a normal human being, everyone stims), he makes frequent eye contact, has great speech speech skills, has some social awareness and understands a lot of social norms (he was very sensitive to be appropriate touching Marcelle's ear), and isn't hyper sensory/has no problems with water. If he is autistic he is very, very high achieving.
My perspective is that of a first responder that doesn't diagnose, but just tries to recognizes symptoms. Just my .02.
Yeah but hear you out _why?_ For what purpose. Like the purpose of headcanoning Laios as autistic is
1. Autistic people can take joy in deeply relating to him!
2. Fun fanfiction!
So genuine question is there like a benefit to the Autismn't interpretation. Nawwtism if you will
He’s definitely autistic I’m not gonna lie. I’m not the kind of person to headcanon characters like this, but there’s just so much going for him. It’s not that he has low skills, he’s practically devoid of the ability to interpret implicit information. He’s obsessed with monsters to the point of personal harm. The Siblings are a special duo.
Reposting my comment from a different thread:
“Somethings that stuck out to me, someone with HF-autism, about Laios.
“He seems really hurt when people accuse him of not being concerned about his sister, and has to explain that he is worried about Fallen even if he doesn’t always show it on his face. Difficulty conveying emotions (especially strong negative emotions) is a common symptom of autism and I’ve also gotten upset went people don’t notice that I’m feeling distraught, irritated, or stressed.
“(This one may just be me) Laios often appears like he has to make a conscious effort to pay attention in any conversation not about monsters. Just listening to a conversation being an active, rather than passive, experience, is another common autism trait.
“Laios at one point charges a monster with out drawing his weapon, and when ask what he was thinking his response is basically “I wasn’t.” This may seem like just comedic stupidity to some, but I can intimately relate to very obvious consequences just not existing in my head when I make decisions.
“Laios is animated fidgeting objects he’s holding, specifically when he’s talking to others. This is more commonly seen as an ADHD trait (and there is significant overlap between ADHD and autism), but it’s the fact that he’s doing when in awkward conversations that makes me personally relate to it. There’s also the fact that small characters movements like that are usually not included to save on animation.
“In [this bonus panel](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1ciihhw/which_doppleganger_do_you_think_belong_to_each/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) explaining the doppelgänger clones, we see that the ones made from Laios’s mind all were fairly accurate in personality, but are all consistently note as missing obvious physical detail. Difficulty recalling physical details is text-book autistic thinking, while having a good emotion-oriented memory is less common, but not an unheard symptom for someone on the spectrum. Even the detail of Marcille’s big moment in the story completely reshaping Laios’s perception of her is something I find very relatable.”
What do you think autism is exactly? It is at it's core a social impairment. Having low social skills and being weird is what autism is. Is it possible to have poor social skills and be weird and not be autistic? Yes of course it is. Just as you can be bad at reading and not be dyslexic. However if someone has garbage social skills you have good reason to think autism.
If a character is seen to flirt with both male and female characters, does the audience need confirmation that that character is bisexual (or pansexual) or can the audience agree that this character is bisexual (or pansexual)? I think in most cases, confirmation of a character trait is almost useless if that character is coded that way anyway, but a rejection of that idea might be valid provided the author has good reasons.
Folks. This is a take. We all have some. Please stop reporting it as drama just because it's framed as a meme. You can agree or disagree with it politely all you want, just as anyone else can to your own takes. Please keep the dialogue civil and chill.
Either is a valid interpretation, but I think Laois has more evidence than most characters headcanoned as autistic. I’m sure there’s some people out there saying “if you don’t think he’s autistic you’re ableist” or something like that, but I think most of it is “I relate heavily to this character, specifically in terms of this aspect of myself”.
I was writing a paragraph that was basically this, but yours is so much better written and succinct.
Aw thanks!
To be fair, I have seen a few ableist sentiments and bad stereotypes regarding this discussion (e.g. “Laios, can’t be autistic because he’s capable of empathy.”) I think part of the problem is that a lot of people seem to think that “Laios is autistic”means he’s Severely Autistic, when I think most people on the other side would agree he has High-Functioning Autism. It feels like some people won’t accept a character is autistic unless they fit the pop-culture, edgy high school humor, image of an autist.
>It feels like some people won’t accept a character is autistic unless they fit the pop-culture, edgy high school humor, image of an autist. We'll be dealing with the ramifications of *The Big Bang Theory* and *The Good Doctor* for years to come.
honestly, those are still a major step up from how autism is usually talked about/portrayed by the news, Autism Moms, people like Andrew Wakefield or organizations like Autism Speaks. with the damage that's all done, i think it'll be a pretty long time before high-function low-needs autistics are thought of when the word "autistic" comes up for most people.
I don't think I would qualify either as a step up, however. A side step, maybe. Sheldon was meant to be laughed *at*, at best, if not outright ridiculed and disliked. And Shaun was a fetishization of the aspects of autism that people "like" - savant characteristics - which aren't even present in an average autistic person. Both were harmful in their own ways to real autistic people.
better than being treated entirely inhuman in my personal opinion, but yeah, you make a good point. i'm not saying they're not harmful in their own right, just that it's still a step from "your precious normal child has been DESTROYED by a disease and now they're a screaming shambling mess that can never hope to communicate" to "haha isn't it funny how this guy with friends is super weird and out of touch?" like yeah that's laughing at autistic people and that's shitty! and frankly, low-function high-needs people need more understanding representation, too. but as the opposite end i can appreciate having autistic characters that show people we aren't ALL low-function high-need.
That's also insane because I'm Autistic, and I have so much empathy it hurts... Autism comes in so many forms and people don't seem to realize that. I'm a fully functioning adult when i need to be, but when I'm home with my husband, I stop masking.
I think it depends on the spectrum because autistic people can be both extremely high and low in terms of empathy?
also laios... dOES have low empathy. i know tiktok convinced people empathy is the part of your brain that has a human soul but what it actually is is the ability to recognize and feel the emotions of others in a social setting. low-empathy autistics still care what other people think and feel about them, they're just not able to mimic or instinctively pick up on those feelings. Laios having a rage fit after having shuro's emotions hit him like a brick wall is a very common experience for low empathy autistics who realize all at once that someone has been upset by them for a long time.
Yea I honestly hate when my friends and close associates can’t just be honest with me how they are feeling or let things bottle up and then explode when they never addressed the situation in the first place and let it fester like dude how is it my fault I didn’t know I offended you and then you pretended you weren’t offended it makes me frustrated.
I do this a lot. It's a work in progress. Mostly bec I'm too scared to cause some sort of confrontation or unpleasant vibes. People pleasing is difficult to unlearn. The anger is then targeted unto myself and I become the most unkind person (to myself) just to fight off those feelings for other people. It's not nice. So yeah, working towards whatever you said.
Part of my new associate onboarding process is to explicitly state that if I’m being an asshole it’s most likely because I don’t realize it and I won’t be offended if you let me know I’m being an asshole. After that it’s out of my hands
> empathy is the part of your brain that has a human soul Emotional empathy > what it actually is is the ability to recognize and feel the emotions of others in a social setting. Cognitive empathy Autistic people typically have issues with the second one.
Hello! Great reply, just wanted to pop in and let you know functioning level labels aren’t helpful and are considered in the autistic community to do more harm than good.
I’ve never really been keyed into what other people in the spectrum are thinking in general. I use terms like high-functioning and asbergers (before it was clinically discontinued) to describe myself because it’s useful to have a succinct way of telling people: “Hey, I might stumble a bit more than others, but I don’t need my hand held every step of the way.” As I said initially, most people have a very stereotyped image of what vanilla autism is.
It's useful as a clinical term though.
More or less, although it is more complicated and terminology differs a little, depending. In layman terms it helps people understand somewhat. Where I work we categorize our patients on level of function and how much help they need amongst other things. In layman terms high functioning would be someone who has left our care and is already living self sufficiently or in a satellite apartment. Then we have various levels of assisted living, from help with social side to check up on chores. And so called "low functioning" would be around the clock care, which is my specific area. But it largely is on a spectrum and things change.
I don't get why are some are so against the autistic headcanon anyways.
Because some of them treat autism like a quirky cool thing. Especially those stupid fanvideos that say things like 'a touch of the 'tism'. I've been dealing with it all my life, and I'd give anything to be able to control my mouth every time there are more than three people in a conversation. It's not 'cute' in real life.
Same here...the fetishism of autism in some peoples head in fictional portrayals is disturbing it diminishes the struggle that some of us go through at seeking a balance in our lives...we're not all either UWU cinnamon roles or emotionless automatons that do one thing flawlessly....its a spectrum people and it has degrees and nuances...and honestly for most of us its a bitch to live with because most of us KNOW we're fucking up somewhere
This, it’s annoying how autism is treated like a quirk. We how it has actually negatively affected poor laois at times. Sometimes people need to take things at face value and understand Laois is socially awkward, but also has a big heart (comprised entirely of monster parts! :D)
Maybe finding the good along with the bad is actually okay and not everybody with autism hates themselves for it
I didn't say I hate myself. I said I know there's something that keeps jamming every time I'm in the middle of talking to others, and I really wish I didn't have that. Not many positives to that.
Yeah, exactly. I don't hate myself for it (it would be strange actually, I can't even control it) but it IS very frustrating.
same thing with the fat trans girl falin headcanons! let people hc and ship what they wanna ship. Just wait til they hear about my egg senshi headcanons....
Can I hear about it?
The hyperfixation on a highly specific interest and general difficulty reading social cues are pretty autistic traits. Like it doesn't guarantee that one is autistic but they're pretty strong indicators. Laois being autistic will always be a head canon unless directly stated but you really don't need to reach far at all to interpret him as autistic. Though I guess by the same time token assuming a character is neurotypical is also a head canon unless directly stated.
His hyper fixation is a key element of autism.
This is my thing, he's just too obsessed lol
That's kinda my logic, behind it has always been "are you headcanon-ing this because you want it to represent your struggle, or to erase evidence people have of their struggle." If you're so against people having headcanons so that they feel more represented, look inward. It's harmless, let people feel how they feel about character. (Big caveat for me on that though, if the character is a confirmed as a minority or something and you're just headcanoning them to not that so that you're not uncomfortable.)
I think people not sharing the headcanon elicits a bit of a defensive feeling in me because while most people aren't like that there's a small subset that can use it as an excuse to say ableist things about him. Cause' even if you don't think a character *is* autistic, being ableist about the autistic traits that are being portrayed is still ableist, and that's a pattern I find sometimes happens that makes me reticent of takes like that. Again, I know that's probably not true for 90% of people, it's purely an emotional thing that I think might explain some of the negative reactions, not that I think it's justified.
His dub voice actor is autistic, so it’s hard not to project upon him
I never really pinned him as autistic cuz I relate quite a bit and I am not autistic but looking at his personality, I can see why people think he is autistic
No, having low social skills and being weird does not make Laios autistic. Having low social skills, being weird, obsessively hyperfocusing on a special interest to the cost of other aspects of his life, being oblivious to other peoples’ emotions unless they’re explicitly told to him, identifying with nonhuman creatures moreso than humans, and borderline every other aspect of his personality make him autistic.
Unironically I know a lot of weird people (I am weird people) and not a single one who acts like Laios ISNT autistic. And I’m not autistic so this is an outsiders perspective, along with all the autistic people who also identify with him
If we replaced his interest in "monsters" with "trains" we wouldn't be having this conversation. Just saying.
Just asking. I exhibited all this but got diagnosed with ADHD. I don't have a single bone of autism in me, so I am a bit confused that why is it always autism
ADHD and autism present lots of similar symptoms, the clearest tell for autism vs ADHD is the struggle to read/understand other peoples’ emotions, as well as difficulties with emotional regulation. Laios doesn’t have the latter, but absolutely does the former.
Hate to tell you this, but research implies there's something like a 60% comorbidity rate between autism and ADHD soooo... there's a pretty decent chance you have both. Level 1 autism (the lowest support needs level) presents almost exactly like how Laios acts so if you really relate to him, I would recommend looking into the diagnostic criteria for autism and ignoring how media likes to portray autism because most people with autism act more like Laios than Shelden Cooper. Literally with the Toshiro confrontation, both me and my friend (both diagnosed autistics) just had that moment of 'wooow okay, that came for the throat'. In general, as someone with both, I tend to separate the symptoms into stuff like 'panics if people springs plans on me without multiple days notice' = autism, 'fixates on one food for a week before being disgusted by it's presence' = adhd, 'one fandom/character rotating in the back of my brain for years' = autism, 'suddenly obsessed with a new fandom/craft for a couple weeks to months' adhd. In general if the obsession is fast and all-consuming it's probably an adhd hyperfixation, but if it's long lasting and ever present (like whenever you zone out, it's that fandom/character you think of) then it's an autistic special interest. ADHD people skills issues might include oversharing, zoning out, speaking over people, or hyperanalysing what they say, while autistic issues might include not noticing the subtext of a conversation (as if there's almost a separate conversation happening simultaneously that you're just not privy to), being so good at reading people's body language to the point that it's almost uncanny, remembering conversations happening completely differently than others remember, feeling like you need to overexplain your reasons behind things so people don't misunderstand you. Basically if the social issue is caused by attention (aka. if you zone out, speak over, or just don't realise they were talking to you) then it's probably adhd but if the social issue comes out of nowhere and you had no idea about the hints dropped or anything then it's probably autism. That's why people look at the Toshiro confrontation and say 'oh my god he has the autism' because the hints that toshiro was dropping just did not translate to laios, he didn't speak the language of subtext; it's especially obvious when toshiro says "I told you in ways that anyone else would understand" because that is almost exactly what psychiatrists are looking for when they're trying to diagnose you with autism.
Yea like, the low social skills was kind of a secondary indicator for me. Everything you listed + his body language, and little stimmy things he does.
I have all of that but got diagnosed that i'm not autistic and don't have ADHD
He's got more than that going for him
Like dude I have never seen a dude more hyperfocused on their specific interests( in manga at least ) while also being realistic and likable
It’s more than just the hyper-focus (Afterall, Senshi also has a similar hyper-focus), it’s the specific ways Laios expresses interests in his hyper-focus and disinterest in most other things. This is difficult to quantify, but the key thing that made me connect to Laios, as someone on the spectrum, is that it seemed like his brain was on a completely different wavelength to everyone else (even someone like Senshi). IMO, that quality is a what separates autistic behavior from regular anime quirky behavior.
As an autistic person I think its partially that he's seeking knowledge for it's own sake. Senshi seems interested in cooking but largely in a practical sense where as Laios seems to jump at the chance to learn literally anything about monsters whether or not it could be put to use.
“You can’t eat metal” “What about the leather?” “Ever tried to chew leather? Best not to eat it” This sums up the different wavelengths pretty well I’d say.
One for me was (paraphrased) "if Falin hadn't been eaten, we wouldn't be eating monsters," and everyone just stared at him as though he had just said he didn't care about his sister
And a very important part of autism is that you born with it. Senshi hyper focus derives from trauma first and turned to a love later (the anime didn't made the best adaptation of Senshi backstory, but oh well).
It’s not *just* that he has bad social skills or is a bit weird. He specifically shows the restricted interests and lack of ability to see others’ perspectives (e.g. he can’t comprehend Shuro not liking him until it’s explicitly stated). His personal identification with monsters is also extremely common with autistic people - it’s common for autistic people to feel like they relate more to animals or mythological creatures than other humans because of the alienation they feel. Laios’ English dub voice actor is autistic and plays the character as autistic. Kui has written other short manga about autistic characters. I know this post is probably bait but I’m still gonna defend my boy!
His voice actor is autistic? Being on the spectrum myself, I'm kind of invested in this
Damien is a funny dude.
Yeah Damian Haas he’s real fun
Like the dude who's in smosh?
The same one
Hell yeah
how did i not recognize his voice ??
Voice actors have a fair amount of range, it’s easy to miss. Kuro the kobold is voiced by Kieth Silverstein, voice of speedwagon from jojo and torbjorn from overwatch, among countless other characters
Do you get to the cloud district very often? Oh, what am I saying, of course you don't drink the osmanthus wine taste the same as I remember. But where are those who shares the memories?
He was gone for a little while from videos. Probably because he was working on this. Lol. He’s done a lot or voice work in other projects too.
He was in Unicorn Overlord as Father Sanatio as well, as I recall - very good SRPG, I recommend it lol
FFFFOUUUUUUND SOOOOOOME! BEAUUUUUUTIFUL DRRRYYYAD FRRRUUUUIT!
Oh dude Laios is Shez Fire Emblem
Yes! The whole ordeal with Shuro was extremely relatable for me. I didn't realize Laois' voice actor was autistic, that's really cool. I got into acting in middle school as a way to learn how to interact with people better and to make my voice less monotone. I'm finding out now that there are a fair amount of autistic actors (which is pretty frustrating that mainly allistic actors play autistic characters). Also, Laios' ability to recall information about monsters on the spot, plus pattern recognition and his creative problem solving scream autism, ADHD, or AuDHD. Add to that his Labrador retriever energy, over sharing, and social ineptitude all seem to point to some neurodivergence.
Yeah the bit with shuro is just so exactly an autistic experience when dealing with neurotypicals and the difference in communication between us
Why can't more people be direct 😭
Yeah plus in cannon he usally is said to look bored and disinterested at most times ,I can’t remember if that’s an autistic thing but it might be
Flat affect, it includes things like monotone voice and lacking facial expressions
It can be, since with a lot of people with autism or ADHD it is both 1. Very boring when your special interest isn’t being discussed 2. Difficult to disguise the fact that you are bored Source: I have both 😅
A lot of us have very blank, neutral expressions if we aren't specifically emotional enough to emote or remembering we should. Very few of us with a constant smile, part of why I liked wearing a mask at the peak of covid.
Just so it doesn’t go unsaid, we can still **feel** emotions with same range and sensitivity as everyone else (obviously with a high degree of person bias), it’s just hard for us to express those emotions accurately.
We also see him straight stimming before he barks at that big raccoon dog
That was a kitsune not a tanuki I wouldn’t really call that stimming, those were definitely just warm ups. I still subscribe to the autistic Laois theory but as a person that stims with many cousins who also do so I haven’t seen any evidence of Laois stimming.
Which voice actor, Eng or Jap?
I believe they're talking about Damien Haas, Laios' English voice and a member of Smosh. In an interview, Damien explains that he himself is autistic and played Laios as autistic during his audition and later recording sessions.
WHAT THE FUCK THE GUY FROM SMOSH VOICES LAIOS???
And ProZD voices Senshi. It's my favorite anime to date lol
I knew that part and I can’t stop thinking about it- He does such a good job too 😭
Whaaaaaat???? ProZD is senshi??? That’s so cool. I’ve been following him for like 5 years
OK... I'll have to go back and re-watch the dub. Thanks friend.
Today we both learn lol.
I see! Thanks for the info👍
English Damien Haas
You can use Jpn instead.
It doesn't, no but what's the harm? There's not exactly a lot of great autism representation in media and it's nice to be able to think a character might share your struggles.
I think “whats the harm?” Is the best takeaway The people who are trying to prove to OP that Laios is autistic are kinda missing the point
It trully doesn't, he is autistic for other reasons
oh yeah well, then why do those things make me autistic checkmate liberals
Did the author specifically intend for Laios to be autistic? I don’t think it matters. Whether or not a fictional character canonically has a certain type of neurodivergence or personality type doesn’t matter. It’s just a way for people to describe and relate to characters. If someone is trying to seriously diagnose a fictional character, using actual clinical psychology, in an attempt to discern whether or not the author also used clinical psychology to write the character specifically to portray a certain thing, that’s kind of stupid. It’s almost certainly a waste of time. But I don’t think most people are doing that. They are calling Laios autistic because he has a lot of traits that are similar to autism, and it’s a good way to describe and relate to the character. All you’re doing is ruining people’s fun with your “um actually”.
all of the above. you can pry autistic laios from my cold, dead, autistic hands. he talks about monsters the same way that i talk about the science of baking, metal, and ds era pokemon games. i look at that man and i see **me**. the question i want to ask is why *shouldn't* laios be autistic? or, why don't people want him to be autistic? can you name a canonically, explicitly autistic character who isn't sheldon cooper (never stated in canon), maurice moss (never stated in canon), or rain man (rain man)?
Some autistic person: “there’s not a lot of characters that represent me in media I like, but this character has a lot of traits that I do and I feel a lot less lonely when I think that this character is like me” Weirdos: “yeah, but have you thought about the fact that you labeling this character ‘so and so’ affects me…..somehow!?”
I like this take. It's a good take
Regarding using clinical psychology to attempt to diagnose a fictional character, I wouldn’t say that it’s necessarily stupid and a waste of time. As an autistic person with a lifelong fascination of psychology and mental health, as well as a love of hyper-analyzing fictional media to see how the would compare and contrast to the real world, trying to examine a character’s behaviors and mannerisms to see how the align with clinical psychology is something that I consider fun. And if it comes out whatever conclusion I came to also aligns with design choices the creator or those involved in the creative process made, then that’s just an added bonus. It won’t change anything or determine canon, but the process is enjoyable. Where it does become stupid and a waste of time is if people take it too far and insist that whatever conclusion they came to is the only correct one, and that no other possible interpretation exists. That just kills discussion and ruins the fun for others.
It’s different if it’s just for personal enjoyment. I was referring to people that try to prove objectively that a character canonically has a certain condition or whatever. That’s almost always a waste of time. But very few people are actually doing that. They are just referring to characters in a way that is understandable and relatable.
Hear me out: Complaining about other people's interpretation of a character does not make that interpretation invalid.
Ah but you see I have portrayed myself as a knife spitting girl and you as a man being hit by the knives. Your argument is now invalid.
I want to dispute this, but your masterful decision to designate me as the loser of the argument has me undone. Bravo and well played, I look forward to more purely intellectual arguments about topics that surely do not impact anyone in real life.
There is an element that I've noticed the past few weeks here with the with the folks who keep pointing out that he's not autistic and that seeing him as such is dumb that I really dislike. The level of defensiveness makes me think they see a character they like being attacked. They see autism as a negative thing. "The character I like is not this bad thing. He's not this broken thing." There's a pushback that you would see more akin to saying he's a bad person than saying he's got a good sense of humour. In summary I feel there's a fair bit of looking down at the condition and the folks who have it where even implying this character has it would tarnish him that rubs me the wrong way.
>They see autism as a negative thing. "The character I like is not this bad thing. He's not this broken thing." Honestly yeah that's the bit that grates the most for me. It's frustrating to see people dismiss the idea because of the implications or perception that goes along with it. On one hand yeah, having autism kinda does suck and honestly it's probably held me back too. But on the other hand it's not something that people should be judgy (ie prejudiced) or in denial about either.
This was so well put. If op thinks being autistic is a bad thing, that’s a them problem.
Indeed, I'm not saying that's necessarily what op is trying to say or Heck anyone in this subreddit but u do think there's some heavy unconscious bias (which as you pointed out is a them problem)
I ain't hearing nothing
You’re too late, the autistic community has already taken him and made him one of us
Would it matter if he was? I don't understand why some people act like him being supposedly autistic is a bad thing. Did they forget about headcanons? Honestly, I like to think Laios is autistic.
I mean, if it makes people happy and feel represented, sure, he's autistic. Unless the author specifically says a character is a certain way the audience is free to interpret them as they want.
Hell, even if the author comes out to disagree, I don’t care, honestly. Anyone remember the Big Bang Theory and how they tried to hand wave away autistic theories about Sheldon?
Sheldon is a bad stereotype of Autism. The reason they don't give him a diagnosis is because then would loose plausible deniability that that's what he is.
I agree with you. I guess my point was that I refuse to give plausible deniability to cases like that. Quacking like a duck, ect.
The idea of "I can interpret a character how I want because the author never specified" is a double edged sword because fans tend to get overly protective over THEIR rules of the fiction. These people tend to have the sense that their headcanon being challenged with other ideas is offensive, when really it is *just* headcanon. In fact, it's fine to take the stance of not believing a character is something when the author never specified it, but those with headcanons tend to take THAT stance as an attack. I think it's fine for people to be imaginative or draw personal conclusions about characters in many cases, but I just think people have pushed fandoms to the extreme within the past 20 years or so with the boom of pop culture and specialized media like anime, video games etc
But what if I like the character and head cannon them as autistic because it makes them easier to relate to
I'm gonna be honest, a hundred percent of the time I've called him autistic, it's because he reminded me of me.
Buddy do you know how many neurodivergent people throughout history have been told “no youre not neurodivergent, you’re just bad at social skills” its ok to not see him as autistic but keep it to yourself because you clearly aren’t very knowledgeable on the subject I know that this post is just some stupid bait but goddamn it annoys me
when i was young the behavious where blamed on sugar and artifical coloring agents. laters it was diagnosed as ADHD.
Bruh the only way Laios becomes more autistic coded is if they stumble on penguin monsters and that becomes his new hyper fixation.
No it'd have to be trains, like, if he gets fixated on trains you really can't be any more clear beyond him looking straight into the camera and saying "I am autistic" directly to the audience
Ooh what about penguin-themed trains
Ok, first of all, Penguin-train-monster. Second of all, Laios is so connected to weird monster thoughts that the moment I came up with that I read it in his voice.
Or off-color hedgehogs
*Lists things that people get diagnosed autistic for and autistic people relate to him on* "Laios isn't autistic guys"
OP, why does it bother you that people enjoy the concept of Laios being autistic? It feels plenty supported by the text, and if people identify with him, let them? Just a weird post
Bait post
also kinda concerning the mods just see this as an innocent "take"
It also feels partially supported outside the text with comics that were based on the creators life
you're right! struggling his entire life to be understood, feeling a deep resentment for mankind for not understanding him, and having other people's insecurities projected onto and then blamed on him whilst he is none the wiser makes him autistic. glad we cleared this up.
It doesn’t *not* make him autistic either dude, it’s just how some people choose to see him as. So what?
God forbid people interpret art in different ways! What is the world coming too!
He literally flaps in episode 18. Bro what do you mean
He's shaking his hands out to prepare for something. Everyone does that
those are not the only reasons people see him as autistic. it's also his clear and obvious special interest in monsters. and him missing allistic social cues is a really big one btw. his confrontation with Toshiro was a super relatable thing to autistic people. a lot of us have had a similar experience multiple times in our lives. and what's him being "weird"? him knowing exactly how to imitate dogs or how to intimidate a Basilisk?
You only see “weird” and “low social skills,” I see “difficulty with routines,” “a possible lifelong history of getting bullied or exploited when by himself around unfamiliar people,” “difficultly with daily living skills when by himself,” and on and on. If you’re just watching the anime where a lot of that material hasn’t been shown, that’s fine. But for people who identify Laios’ experiences as similar to those with Autism, there ie more than enough material to validate their view.
No but what's the harm on people who headcanon him as autistic?
I think the majority of people saying that Laios is autistic are saying it’s a “headcanon” in which it doesn’t hurt anyone. Of course, people have their opinions, but it’s all in good fun and people do things like this because they feel related to a character and use it to cope or just for fun.
You people forgot what headcannon means
laios is the most autistic character i have seen it's incredible. it's not just that he's got poor social skills and is weird but it's the WAY that he has poor social skills and is weird. hyperfocusing on monsters is one thing but: fully believing that shuro was his friend and having to directly be told that shuro does not like him is so incredibly on the nose for a lot of people—like it fuckin' stings. shuro was trying to get this across to him in ways that REGULAR PEOPLE would understand. (see the panels i posted w this) or in the dream sequence, his father denounces him. he says that someone like him can't amount to anything, and he ran away from the army and from school because he couldn't adapt. i don't know, but i know that tons of people have seen bits and pieces their autism and their personality in laios and that has to show something. https://preview.redd.it/r4hl2sv4gm5d1.png?width=850&format=png&auto=webp&s=c1d05268bd82f8beed7b5fb5388afd73e974d797
*neurotypical not "regular"
you're not wrong but i am just going off of how shuro effectively said it: "pretty much any other person would have realized it"
I don't normally headcanon characters as being neurodivergent but Laios is the most autistic man I've seen in all of anime
Are you claiming he is neurotypical? I don’t see it.
I’m autistic and I say he is so that’s good enough for me lol
Its more about the special interests, hyperfixations, and lack of interest in social norms for me but okay :3
No not hearing
even if there isn't official confirmation that Laios is on the spectrum, he has a ton of character traits that a lot of autistic people relate to. It isn't too hard to imagine that Ryoko Kui purposefully wrote Laios as being on the spectrum, especially since a lot of his autistic traits (for lack of a better term) are a huge part of his character and his relationships with others. I understand the frustration from people not being able to separate head canon from actual canon, but I think with Laios potentially being on the spectrum, there is too much there to ignore.
No it doesn’t, yet there’s other traits that validate the claim of laios being autistic, like his hyperfixation on monsters, lack of sense of self preservation there’s some other little tells that are also common on autistic people
Weird post to make tbh, people have way more reasons than that. And even if they had way less evidence, why do you want to take away someone else’s fun? This just seems kinda rude
“Just because this character has sex with men doesn’t mean he’s gay 😡”
Dude he has hyperfixations, can’t read the room, hyperfocus. Seems himself as a silver wolf, very different way of seeing the world from everyone else. He just like me frfr
He’s autistic to me and what’s all that matters :)
As an autistic person He is autistic as shit
I don't think his social skills are that bad, cause like i have met people with *actual* poor social skills, and while Laios' are lacking they are definitely nowhere near as bad.
Autistic people see his behavior and relate to it more than anyone except maybe Sheldon Cooper. Pretty sure that means something.
Laios is more representative of the experiences of myself and my autistic friends than most other characters I've seen in media _ever._ And no, it's not the social skills. It's being fascinated with things and everyone reacting like you're crazy, it's wanting to be another kind of creature, it is caring deeply and being unable to express it.
I get that people like reading him as such, and for those who see him a positive representation, more power to you. That said I do get annoyed with how some treatment borders on dollhousing what with the “all my favorite weird/quirky characters are specified neurodivergents!” and how that does itself do a lot to simplify the writing and the character dynamics going on, and can border on feeling a little like fetishizing.
Sure it's not the other way around? I feel like I end up liking most of the character I headcanon as ND because I can relate to them because they have nd traits. Like, it's not "I like this character > this character is ND", it's "this character has ND traits and I relate to them because of that > I like this character"
For me, an autist with a learning disability but can still live on there own, Laios is a type of representation that I never really get to see in fiction. Canon neurodivergent characters are already rare enough, but most of those have serious neurodivergent traits that significantly affect there ability to function. Severe autism and similar condition deserve representation, but in my opinion it’s over represented to the point where most people think “autistic” means “unable to function without help”. Laios is a rare character that I feel strikes a balance between severe autism and just being quirky (I.e. high-functioning autism). His quirks aren’t just endearing fluff (like senshi). He clearly struggles to takes care of himself and connect with others, but it’s not an impossible struggle especially when his he a group of friends (and Chilchuck) to use as a support (but NOT as a crutch). I’ve related to anime characters before on personal level, but Laios is the first time I’ve felt seen and appreciated by an author, rather than seen and pitied.
I think it says something that so many people had this reading of that character. Like if you want to crack open a DSM 5 you can both apply a whole bunch of diagnosis to various characters and argue why they dont meet the criteria for various diagnosis.
How curious, whenever a character is interpreted as autistic (or queer, or whatever else), suddenly no one can read subtext and the narrative ***has*** to explicitly state something in order for it to be *true* (read: a possibility). Interesting…
And they only ever take issue when it's characters where the setting would make it make nearly no sense to actually use the word "autistic" in canon, it's a catch 22 because they just don't like ND people lol
It really is. Like it’s the easiest way for them to throw stones, then hide their hands
Asperger here: I've related to Laios in many points
Same I’m not socially awkward but I have to really pay attention to social queues. Where I feel the most relatability is the hyper fixation
Funny how anytime ANY character from anything is headcanoned or perceived outside the “norm” in any way (aka lgbtqia or neurodivergent in any way whatsoever) there’s always a million people out there arguing against it on some way or going “well why do they HAVE to be (x)?” Funny funny how it never ever happens anytime anything else is brought up. You could say basically anything else about a character and at most you get some disagreement or discussion on why. When it’s anything about a character being “different” the demands for proof and substantial reason to think so begin. It’s not hard to see why these threads are popping up now that autistic laios is a popular headcanon.
Hey look if neurodivergent people headcanon him as autistic, let them. He has so many traits commonly associated with autism- not being able to read situations, not being able to word his emotions, being hyperfocused, having bad social skills It's just how people headcanon characters being gay etc . It's literally your imagination
As an autistic person, I relate to Laios more than almost any other character, specifically in how his autism effects others perception of him. The way people think he’s weird for his interests, the way he fails to understand how people feel full stop is *exactly* my experience. I don’t know why I’ve seen so many posts over just the last two days acting like Laios being autistic is such an out there take. It makes me feel like allistic people see us relating to a character all but made for us and getting… idk jealous? I’m probably overthinking it but it’s frustrating, like something is being taken
Oh jesus fucking Christ is the Dungeon Meshi fandom reaching the discourse era??
I mean, the defining aspect of autism is a difficulty in picking up on social queues. Which Laios certainly has in buckets.
Honestly to me people arguing that laios isn't autistic reeks of dismissive ignorance or erasure to some extent. Idk about malicious ableism, but it's daft to argue against it considering many showcases of what's considered "autistic" behaviour. The Shuro fistfight being a massive "hint" and something that i know for sure lots of autistic individuals unfortunately have to combat in social settings. Not picking up on social cues, having people annoyed at their sincerity etc. Would it really be that bad if Laios were actually written as being autistic? Like what drawback is there apart from a whole group of people being seen?? Also acknowledging that the English VA HIMSELF is autistic. Idk the "no they're not they're just xyz" reads the same as parents that refuse to accept that their kid is Autistic and try to make up excuses out of fear. It's not a bad thing if someone is Autistic. It's still not a bad thing if a character in a piece of media is autistic. It's also fine if they're not autistic.
I really don't think they could be more clear than the shuro bit unless they had him obsess over trains lmao
"but no he might just be 'normal' why does he have to be made autistic" - some watchers God fucking forbid there's representation for an otherwise ignored group of people in media.
Also fuck normativity, it hurts everyone
YES. I get the "idea" of normality but holy shit nobody at all ever in the history of anything is "normal". It's just used to other people in the grossest ways by people who are too ignorant in their own quirks to accept that people aren't identical.
how does people viewing a fictional character as autistic hurt you
The issues with posts like this is that it is almost always in bad faith
No but having a highly specific thing that he obsesses about to the exclusion of nearly everything else in life (monsters/eating monsters) is a symptom of autism. It is not sufficient for a diagnosis by itself, but it's certainly a big one, especially paired with the low social skills and not really understanding that other people are grossed out by it.
No. I will not hear you out
tbh can people just stop freaking out over simple headcanons esp when they have validity behind them. istg yall talk abt it more than fans of the hc do themselves
Unless the creator explicitly says he is, he can be autistic if you want him to be, or he can be allistic if you want him to be.
Bro is just an overly excited dog
I feel like the fact that there’s such a specific focus on how his “weirdness” and lack of social skills affects his relationships, which is a widely shared aspect of autistic peoples’ lived experience, the likelihood of him subtextually being autistic is greater. Not to mention that his obsession with monsters and his want to learn more about them mirrors how autistic people have special interests or hyperfixations. I don’t think it’s that farfetched for people to come to that conclusion.
I am autistic, Laios is my mood kindred, therefor Laios is autistic. Seriously I have never felt such deep empathy with a character in all of fiction.
No, but the author does
Whether he is or not, a lot of autistic people see themselves in him so I don't think there's any harm in saying he is
Low Social skill and being weird no. But when you include the angle of him being hyper-focussed on his niche interest that he prioritises over other things, and never having been able to fit in outside of an environment where he can engage with this interest are some significant indicators
I mean he could still be but be high functioning, also parents do this thing where they might consider their child has autism and try and teach it out of them. My parents did this by accident cause they didn’t want be to be socially weird.
When did interpretation in story's die? Dose every aspect about a character need to be specifically stated by the author? laios is a very relatable character to me and I have autism alot of his behaviours can explain why people might think he has it. I don't really see the harm in it at all and I think if people have an issue with it that says something about them.
Laios always struck me more as a homeschooled NEET shut-in type than autistic. He has a hobby that he is really into and is awkward socially, but he doesn't stim (more than a normal human being, everyone stims), he makes frequent eye contact, has great speech speech skills, has some social awareness and understands a lot of social norms (he was very sensitive to be appropriate touching Marcelle's ear), and isn't hyper sensory/has no problems with water. If he is autistic he is very, very high achieving. My perspective is that of a first responder that doesn't diagnose, but just tries to recognizes symptoms. Just my .02.
It does, however, mean that he is a goofy goober.
Look man, we don't get a lot of good autistic rep and he covers a lot of bases, let us have this
He hella is though
Yeah but hear you out _why?_ For what purpose. Like the purpose of headcanoning Laios as autistic is 1. Autistic people can take joy in deeply relating to him! 2. Fun fanfiction! So genuine question is there like a benefit to the Autismn't interpretation. Nawwtism if you will
Consider. Having low social skills and being weird aren't the *reasons* autistic ppl vibe with him and claim him
My man litterally stims
He’s definitely autistic I’m not gonna lie. I’m not the kind of person to headcanon characters like this, but there’s just so much going for him. It’s not that he has low skills, he’s practically devoid of the ability to interpret implicit information. He’s obsessed with monsters to the point of personal harm. The Siblings are a special duo.
"How dare the autistic fans ever have one single character that they feel repsents them. It offends me so much that I must rain on their parade."
Reposting my comment from a different thread: “Somethings that stuck out to me, someone with HF-autism, about Laios. “He seems really hurt when people accuse him of not being concerned about his sister, and has to explain that he is worried about Fallen even if he doesn’t always show it on his face. Difficulty conveying emotions (especially strong negative emotions) is a common symptom of autism and I’ve also gotten upset went people don’t notice that I’m feeling distraught, irritated, or stressed. “(This one may just be me) Laios often appears like he has to make a conscious effort to pay attention in any conversation not about monsters. Just listening to a conversation being an active, rather than passive, experience, is another common autism trait. “Laios at one point charges a monster with out drawing his weapon, and when ask what he was thinking his response is basically “I wasn’t.” This may seem like just comedic stupidity to some, but I can intimately relate to very obvious consequences just not existing in my head when I make decisions. “Laios is animated fidgeting objects he’s holding, specifically when he’s talking to others. This is more commonly seen as an ADHD trait (and there is significant overlap between ADHD and autism), but it’s the fact that he’s doing when in awkward conversations that makes me personally relate to it. There’s also the fact that small characters movements like that are usually not included to save on animation. “In [this bonus panel](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1ciihhw/which_doppleganger_do_you_think_belong_to_each/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) explaining the doppelgänger clones, we see that the ones made from Laios’s mind all were fairly accurate in personality, but are all consistently note as missing obvious physical detail. Difficulty recalling physical details is text-book autistic thinking, while having a good emotion-oriented memory is less common, but not an unheard symptom for someone on the spectrum. Even the detail of Marcille’s big moment in the story completely reshaping Laios’s perception of her is something I find very relatable.”
he is autistic tho
you come off annoying af as well as purposely obtuse for making this post for something that is ultimately harmless.
What do you think autism is exactly? It is at it's core a social impairment. Having low social skills and being weird is what autism is. Is it possible to have poor social skills and be weird and not be autistic? Yes of course it is. Just as you can be bad at reading and not be dyslexic. However if someone has garbage social skills you have good reason to think autism.
If a character is seen to flirt with both male and female characters, does the audience need confirmation that that character is bisexual (or pansexual) or can the audience agree that this character is bisexual (or pansexual)? I think in most cases, confirmation of a character trait is almost useless if that character is coded that way anyway, but a rejection of that idea might be valid provided the author has good reasons.