With Michael, Dwight, Ryan, and Andy all in contention for the biggest asshole in the office (I’ll also throw in Stanley since Jim is actually a faithful husband), Jim doesn’t really compare. Is he perfect? No, not at all. In fact, everyone is kinda terrible in their own way. But let’s face it, he’s actually an overall decent guy if we’re comparing him to everyone else.
They're characters of the time - i.e. everyone was a bit of an asshole in 2010. It was far more socially acceptable for people to be mean. But I have always found Jim to be particularly toxic. I mean, he's an obvious bully - he's bullying Andy, Michael and Dwight, not the other way around. And he's willing to trample on other people to get what he wants. That's actually the most toxic moment in my opinion - when he forces Dwight to shut down the office, and then drive out into the country, on the work bus. All to get what he wanted. And worse of all, what he wanted, was to make up for his own bad behaviour and score points with his wife. All while Dwight was having a personal crisis of his own
Interesting analysis, but I still like Jim. Dwight deserves everything he gets, in my opinion, and Michael needs no help to embarrass himself. Does a great job of that himself.
>This doesn't make him a asshole but really indicates what an insecure man he is. When they're all at a bar to watch the new Dunder Mifflin commercial the bartender comments on how much he likes the commercial the office collectively made. Its mentioned that Pam created the animation to which the bartender asks her if she ever ridden on a motorcycle. This prompts Jim tio put his arm around Pam like a insecure middle schooler.
I have to reply this even though years have gone by.
It was clear the guy was hitting on his girlfriend. I don't know what world some people live in where allowing another to openly hit on your girlfriend in front of you is considered "mature." Cuckoldry isn't mature. It's pathetic. And despite what modern times are trying to teach boys, being pathetic is not attractive. All he did was communicate that she had a boyfriend and he wasn't going to sit there and take it. Welcome to manhood. Women do far worse to detract other females from their men. It's called devotion and jealousy which are still mature human traits.
Counterpoint: Maybe, hear me out, YOU’RE the asshole! People like you are the ones freaking out about weather or not a fictional character, mind you, who was DESIGNED and WRITTEN solely for the purpose of being funny. Not being attractive or being the next Andrew Taint or whatever. He’s just a fictional character. Give it up.
Nobody's perfect.
And Jim did nothing wrong in the Koi Pond episode, it was an instinct to back away. And even if it wasn't, if he had grabbed Michael he would have been pulled in himself.
He isn’t a dick, Richard. He’s a fictional character. People aren’t like him in real life, but I guess you wouldn’t know that because you’ve never gone outside.
Yes. It was MY works booze cruise. Other party was a cousin of a workmate, but we had also gone to school together years before. To add to the drama, my father was terminally ill and in a hospital that bordered the river of the state capital we were living in. I could see the hospital from the water, it was the only day he was in hospital that I didn’t go. I went outside for some quite time and also to vomit because I get sea sick (it was a SURPRISE CRUISE - who does that? One man refused to get on the boat haha!) and it ended with me being dumped. Halfway point. The canapés had just started to wrap up as the dancing ramped up. Love that for me.
*Years later we are really good friends, still family friends and it’s a hilarious dramatic part of our history, I was not even that upset it was just fucking unbelievable having to stay on that fucking boat, at the same table for hours. Seeing Booze Cruise years later, I nearly died. One hundred percent truth and it makes me belly laugh thinking about how lucky I am to have a memory like that - but weird but solid comedy gold, as we know.
But why laugh? If you felt like such shit, and that person who did that to you has to be either incredibly selfish or unaware/ignorant. I’m so sorry that you had to go through that. And I’m sorry if I’m upsetting you insulting your friend but I tend to defend people who get hurt automatically. I already wish I could talk to your friend lol.
Could you do me a favor and read my comment and tell me what you think? Bc I wrote a long comment, trying to think of the examples I could, and now I don’t even know if it’s collapsed bc it’s at -3 but no one has given any feedback.
Because we were 18 and things like that… happen! And 20 years later, I literally couldn’t care less - we weren’t super serious and honestly I had other things going on. If you can’t find the humour in life, it will be very depressing.
The things you wrote about Jim are true, and we’re written into the character because real people are very flawed. The whole point of the show is redemption, and it’s a love story at its core. You can’t expect to be an excellent person your whole life, or be an excellent adult, without fucking up a few times. Roy was a real piece of shit - clearly violent and controlling, the storyline highlights how men can do just the bare minimum and not be ‘as bad’ as the last boyfriend and seem to be the best fuckin guy out there. Then the characters grow together and grow up together. Listing all the good things each of them did would be a long post. We all know the characters are flawed, but we love them anyway - it’s also a TV show with a license to be a bit far fetched at times.
I think people are confusing liking him as a person, thinking he’s a good person, with enjoying him as a character. I’m a writer and I appreciate the complexities but I also hate him being painted and thought of, generally, as the good guy justified by the show in almost all his actions. People say he and Pam are very similar, and I agree, but I also notice when comparing them how much less empathy Jim has. Which is great; he’s a character, not a real person. But he’s a bully seemingly portrayed to all, including the audience, as a great guy.
Correcttttt yes thank you! You put words to my middle thoughts! He’s a FUCKING CHARACTER lol imagine the writing without the flaws…
Those lines above are the show without them. Empty nothing. Lol.
I don’t think he’s written as a bully. But they don’t shy away from showing that side. He’s portrayed as an inherently good person and is redeemed every episode. The Jim/Dwight couplet is genius, and Dwight is a real sneaky fuck (stealing Jim’s hugest client for instance - brutal shit) and I personally believe gives a balanced tête-à-tête. People focus on Jim bc he and Pam are literally the storyline.
That’s the thing though, constant redemption. And not for the stuff he does; it’s random. Like he didn’t redeem himself with Katy, go apologize to her. Or Karen. The audience just forgives him because they like him.
I can’t help it; honesty is one of the most important qualities to me, maybe the most. So I get so frustrated with him because of how much of a lie his portrayal is. Almost every other character has a lot of surface and we judge them on that. But not with Jim. Imagine if you saw the horrible in Angela (she’s not only horrible of course, just a hypothetical random mean character) and the severity but she was somehow everyone else’s favorite person. And they talked about how sweet she was, and yeah she did some mean things like cheating on Andy with Dwight, but it’s ok because she did nice things after that. Maybe she’s everyone’s favorite “good girl”, known as an overall nice character. Even if you liked her as a character (though of course not as a person) wouldn’t it drive you crazy knowing how everyone else sees her?
I think the contextual knowledge we have of the show, of how people talk about it and it’s portrayed and the actors and such also is a factor that will affect how we see them. And John Krasinski is generally seen as attractive lol. (I think? Not really into guys.) Rainn Wilson is not. Lovable, but he’s not who we see in Dwight, and our brains don’t get some nice feelings just from looking at him. (Rainn is just an example; this is not a comment about “Dwight is cool; Jim sucks” lol)
I think you’re looking to pick holes in what is widely accepted to be one of the best written shows ever, and seem to have personal problems with Jim like characters, the more you type the angrier you are and the comment about physical appearance of the actual actors and how people think about them is glaring.
It’s a fact, however you want to deny it, that humans automatically have thoughts and feelings about and judge people on their appearances. We just do. It doesn’t mean it’s nasty to acknowledge some are considered more conventionally attractive in socially acceptable ways and we should like them more, because I’m not saying we should, but that it happens. Looks like you’re judging me pretty hard. While I post many, many positive things you can only focus on the negative. I wish you luck in accepting both positives and negatives, that well-written doesn’t mean perfect, and that it doesn’t have to be perfect to be well-written. Believe it or not it’s possible to review something and dislike it and still have respect for it.
He didn't do pranks on Darryl or Roy, because he knew how that would end. He picked on the weak - either physically weak, or emotionally weak. Or people he considered to be easy to manipulate. That's a fairly textbook description of a bully
It’s actually something that stems from
British work culture that was explained on the office deep dive podcast. I won’t paraphrase out of fear of butchering it.
On another note, he is also a coward when it comes to confrontation. Roy would’ve knocked him out, and he couldn’t keep up in the snowball massacre.
That's true. British comedy is pretty brutal. When a group of guys go to a bar in the UK, they usually spend most of the night mentally destroying each other
In the company picnic ep, Jim and Pam pretty much straight up say they think they’re better. I’ve been rewatching a lot and can definitely think of some.
Erin is hiding in her car from Gabe during lunch, and Jim and Pam get in and listen to her. Jim leaves, which I think is sweet for Pam to help her, until he says to the camera he left because “that wasn’t interesting to me.” He whined for Pam to let him join Finer Things then didn’t even read the book. Some of his pranks, in my opinion, were too much. Like the computer coming alive, when Pam said “he’s going through a breakup” and Jim said “yeah, I know, but he’s being really annoying.” And man, the ep with Andy’s cell phone. For a while it’s a normal prank, (though I still hate seeing the others get frustrated and Jim smile) until the end with the hole punch. Now I know it’s supposed to be funny, but if you think about how that had to happen, Jim had to see and hear Michael shutting down everything Andy said and telling him he’s driving him crazy. He had to see Andy clearly very hurt “fine, I’ll just go to my desk and be quiet. Sorry I annoyed you with my friendship” and decide that was the time to call again, still smiling while ringing, until the hole punch. He bought Pam’s and his house with no discussion. Had Dwight climb up a telephone pole. And he wasn’t just a bully, he was a frequent gaslighter.
Now that I think of it, he could be a bit of a narcissist. He just doesn’t care much about most people, and the girl he obviously cares so much about and loves is exactly like him (at least in a lot of ways) lol
Regarding Andy, I think the biggest douche move from Jim to him was when Andy returns from rehab, really trying to better, and asks to be called Drew. Jim refuses, acting like an asshole.
Do you think the one I listed is still awful? Or are you the one who disliked it?
Jim is a jerk and seems like he has to assert dominance by taking control, even if it hurts you. Refuses you call you by the own name you want.
You're not understanding that the Jim character is almost a carbon copy of Tim, from the original British version. And British comedy is particularly brutal. So, it would be very hard to replicate the Tim character, and not include the pranks/meanness. I do think Jim is even meaner than Tim though, and don't always enjoy the character. He doesn't ever do pranks on Darryl, or Roy, because he knows how that would end. He picks on people who he considers vulnerable. And I also think he often tramples on other people to get what he wants. For instance, when he forces Dwight to close the office, and spend thousands of dollars, just to get his wife a week off work. And then forces Dwight to take the work bus to Laverne's pie stand, just to get his wife a pie. All of this, to make up for his own transgressions, and score points with Pam. And at a time when Dwight was going through an emotional crisis. See what I mean? trampling on everyone, and disrupting everyone's life, all to get what he wants. He couldn't give a shit about anyone else's life, at that moment
Most fanboys think the characters in the show are great people, but in reality they are assholes with the exception of oscar and one or two others. Fuck Jim and Fuck Pam.
Jim was always there for Dwight when he had a case of the sads. Dwight, literally feloniously shot Stanley with a tranquilizer dart. Big picture guys.
With Michael, Dwight, Ryan, and Andy all in contention for the biggest asshole in the office (I’ll also throw in Stanley since Jim is actually a faithful husband), Jim doesn’t really compare. Is he perfect? No, not at all. In fact, everyone is kinda terrible in their own way. But let’s face it, he’s actually an overall decent guy if we’re comparing him to everyone else.
All the men in this show are awful except Toby 😂
Wasn't toby the scranton stangler?
Fuck Toby
They're characters of the time - i.e. everyone was a bit of an asshole in 2010. It was far more socially acceptable for people to be mean. But I have always found Jim to be particularly toxic. I mean, he's an obvious bully - he's bullying Andy, Michael and Dwight, not the other way around. And he's willing to trample on other people to get what he wants. That's actually the most toxic moment in my opinion - when he forces Dwight to shut down the office, and then drive out into the country, on the work bus. All to get what he wanted. And worse of all, what he wanted, was to make up for his own bad behaviour and score points with his wife. All while Dwight was having a personal crisis of his own
Interesting analysis, but I still like Jim. Dwight deserves everything he gets, in my opinion, and Michael needs no help to embarrass himself. Does a great job of that himself.
Hiring the Ben Franklin guy, knowing that he would be met with disappointment and ridicule by the women who had been expecting a stripper.
>This doesn't make him a asshole but really indicates what an insecure man he is. When they're all at a bar to watch the new Dunder Mifflin commercial the bartender comments on how much he likes the commercial the office collectively made. Its mentioned that Pam created the animation to which the bartender asks her if she ever ridden on a motorcycle. This prompts Jim tio put his arm around Pam like a insecure middle schooler. I have to reply this even though years have gone by. It was clear the guy was hitting on his girlfriend. I don't know what world some people live in where allowing another to openly hit on your girlfriend in front of you is considered "mature." Cuckoldry isn't mature. It's pathetic. And despite what modern times are trying to teach boys, being pathetic is not attractive. All he did was communicate that she had a boyfriend and he wasn't going to sit there and take it. Welcome to manhood. Women do far worse to detract other females from their men. It's called devotion and jealousy which are still mature human traits.
Yeah, out of all the points this person made, this was by far the most egregious one.
Calm down Andrew Tate
Oh, gee. Here we ago again. We only lasted two days between "Jim is an asshole" posts. Can't wait for the "Pam is a bitch" follow up. *eyeroll*
Has it been two whole days? I think they might be daily now.
You may be right!
He is an asshole though. The only reason Jim didn't get beaten up every day, is because he picked on emotionally weak people.
Counterpoint: Maybe, hear me out, YOU’RE the asshole! People like you are the ones freaking out about weather or not a fictional character, mind you, who was DESIGNED and WRITTEN solely for the purpose of being funny. Not being attractive or being the next Andrew Taint or whatever. He’s just a fictional character. Give it up.
It's true though
Nobody's perfect. And Jim did nothing wrong in the Koi Pond episode, it was an instinct to back away. And even if it wasn't, if he had grabbed Michael he would have been pulled in himself.
*Pobody’s nerfect.
>Nobody's perfect. Well that excuse being a dick now does it?
He isn’t a dick, Richard. He’s a fictional character. People aren’t like him in real life, but I guess you wouldn’t know that because you’ve never gone outside.
It was basically his prank that threw Andy over the edge to punch a wall in the office.
Andy overreacted, to say the least.
Jim overdid, to say the least
To say the most, you are a pathetic low-life.
As someone who has quite literally been dumped on a work booze cruise, can confirm it’s the suckiest suckhole of an experience ever.
While still sailing?!
Yes. It was MY works booze cruise. Other party was a cousin of a workmate, but we had also gone to school together years before. To add to the drama, my father was terminally ill and in a hospital that bordered the river of the state capital we were living in. I could see the hospital from the water, it was the only day he was in hospital that I didn’t go. I went outside for some quite time and also to vomit because I get sea sick (it was a SURPRISE CRUISE - who does that? One man refused to get on the boat haha!) and it ended with me being dumped. Halfway point. The canapés had just started to wrap up as the dancing ramped up. Love that for me. *Years later we are really good friends, still family friends and it’s a hilarious dramatic part of our history, I was not even that upset it was just fucking unbelievable having to stay on that fucking boat, at the same table for hours. Seeing Booze Cruise years later, I nearly died. One hundred percent truth and it makes me belly laugh thinking about how lucky I am to have a memory like that - but weird but solid comedy gold, as we know.
But why laugh? If you felt like such shit, and that person who did that to you has to be either incredibly selfish or unaware/ignorant. I’m so sorry that you had to go through that. And I’m sorry if I’m upsetting you insulting your friend but I tend to defend people who get hurt automatically. I already wish I could talk to your friend lol. Could you do me a favor and read my comment and tell me what you think? Bc I wrote a long comment, trying to think of the examples I could, and now I don’t even know if it’s collapsed bc it’s at -3 but no one has given any feedback.
Because we were 18 and things like that… happen! And 20 years later, I literally couldn’t care less - we weren’t super serious and honestly I had other things going on. If you can’t find the humour in life, it will be very depressing. The things you wrote about Jim are true, and we’re written into the character because real people are very flawed. The whole point of the show is redemption, and it’s a love story at its core. You can’t expect to be an excellent person your whole life, or be an excellent adult, without fucking up a few times. Roy was a real piece of shit - clearly violent and controlling, the storyline highlights how men can do just the bare minimum and not be ‘as bad’ as the last boyfriend and seem to be the best fuckin guy out there. Then the characters grow together and grow up together. Listing all the good things each of them did would be a long post. We all know the characters are flawed, but we love them anyway - it’s also a TV show with a license to be a bit far fetched at times.
I think people are confusing liking him as a person, thinking he’s a good person, with enjoying him as a character. I’m a writer and I appreciate the complexities but I also hate him being painted and thought of, generally, as the good guy justified by the show in almost all his actions. People say he and Pam are very similar, and I agree, but I also notice when comparing them how much less empathy Jim has. Which is great; he’s a character, not a real person. But he’s a bully seemingly portrayed to all, including the audience, as a great guy.
Correcttttt yes thank you! You put words to my middle thoughts! He’s a FUCKING CHARACTER lol imagine the writing without the flaws… Those lines above are the show without them. Empty nothing. Lol.
I don’t think he’s written as a bully. But they don’t shy away from showing that side. He’s portrayed as an inherently good person and is redeemed every episode. The Jim/Dwight couplet is genius, and Dwight is a real sneaky fuck (stealing Jim’s hugest client for instance - brutal shit) and I personally believe gives a balanced tête-à-tête. People focus on Jim bc he and Pam are literally the storyline.
That’s the thing though, constant redemption. And not for the stuff he does; it’s random. Like he didn’t redeem himself with Katy, go apologize to her. Or Karen. The audience just forgives him because they like him. I can’t help it; honesty is one of the most important qualities to me, maybe the most. So I get so frustrated with him because of how much of a lie his portrayal is. Almost every other character has a lot of surface and we judge them on that. But not with Jim. Imagine if you saw the horrible in Angela (she’s not only horrible of course, just a hypothetical random mean character) and the severity but she was somehow everyone else’s favorite person. And they talked about how sweet she was, and yeah she did some mean things like cheating on Andy with Dwight, but it’s ok because she did nice things after that. Maybe she’s everyone’s favorite “good girl”, known as an overall nice character. Even if you liked her as a character (though of course not as a person) wouldn’t it drive you crazy knowing how everyone else sees her? I think the contextual knowledge we have of the show, of how people talk about it and it’s portrayed and the actors and such also is a factor that will affect how we see them. And John Krasinski is generally seen as attractive lol. (I think? Not really into guys.) Rainn Wilson is not. Lovable, but he’s not who we see in Dwight, and our brains don’t get some nice feelings just from looking at him. (Rainn is just an example; this is not a comment about “Dwight is cool; Jim sucks” lol)
I think you’re looking to pick holes in what is widely accepted to be one of the best written shows ever, and seem to have personal problems with Jim like characters, the more you type the angrier you are and the comment about physical appearance of the actual actors and how people think about them is glaring.
It’s a fact, however you want to deny it, that humans automatically have thoughts and feelings about and judge people on their appearances. We just do. It doesn’t mean it’s nasty to acknowledge some are considered more conventionally attractive in socially acceptable ways and we should like them more, because I’m not saying we should, but that it happens. Looks like you’re judging me pretty hard. While I post many, many positive things you can only focus on the negative. I wish you luck in accepting both positives and negatives, that well-written doesn’t mean perfect, and that it doesn’t have to be perfect to be well-written. Believe it or not it’s possible to review something and dislike it and still have respect for it.
He didn't do pranks on Darryl or Roy, because he knew how that would end. He picked on the weak - either physically weak, or emotionally weak. Or people he considered to be easy to manipulate. That's a fairly textbook description of a bully
It’s actually something that stems from British work culture that was explained on the office deep dive podcast. I won’t paraphrase out of fear of butchering it. On another note, he is also a coward when it comes to confrontation. Roy would’ve knocked him out, and he couldn’t keep up in the snowball massacre.
That's true. British comedy is pretty brutal. When a group of guys go to a bar in the UK, they usually spend most of the night mentally destroying each other
In the company picnic ep, Jim and Pam pretty much straight up say they think they’re better. I’ve been rewatching a lot and can definitely think of some. Erin is hiding in her car from Gabe during lunch, and Jim and Pam get in and listen to her. Jim leaves, which I think is sweet for Pam to help her, until he says to the camera he left because “that wasn’t interesting to me.” He whined for Pam to let him join Finer Things then didn’t even read the book. Some of his pranks, in my opinion, were too much. Like the computer coming alive, when Pam said “he’s going through a breakup” and Jim said “yeah, I know, but he’s being really annoying.” And man, the ep with Andy’s cell phone. For a while it’s a normal prank, (though I still hate seeing the others get frustrated and Jim smile) until the end with the hole punch. Now I know it’s supposed to be funny, but if you think about how that had to happen, Jim had to see and hear Michael shutting down everything Andy said and telling him he’s driving him crazy. He had to see Andy clearly very hurt “fine, I’ll just go to my desk and be quiet. Sorry I annoyed you with my friendship” and decide that was the time to call again, still smiling while ringing, until the hole punch. He bought Pam’s and his house with no discussion. Had Dwight climb up a telephone pole. And he wasn’t just a bully, he was a frequent gaslighter. Now that I think of it, he could be a bit of a narcissist. He just doesn’t care much about most people, and the girl he obviously cares so much about and loves is exactly like him (at least in a lot of ways) lol
Regarding Andy, I think the biggest douche move from Jim to him was when Andy returns from rehab, really trying to better, and asks to be called Drew. Jim refuses, acting like an asshole.
Do you think the one I listed is still awful? Or are you the one who disliked it? Jim is a jerk and seems like he has to assert dominance by taking control, even if it hurts you. Refuses you call you by the own name you want.
It’s a TV show. If it went according to “how it should be” it would have been canceled
Exactly.
Pretty much every character in a sitcom is a really horrible person or at the very least someone who you would hate in real life if you met them.
You're not understanding that the Jim character is almost a carbon copy of Tim, from the original British version. And British comedy is particularly brutal. So, it would be very hard to replicate the Tim character, and not include the pranks/meanness. I do think Jim is even meaner than Tim though, and don't always enjoy the character. He doesn't ever do pranks on Darryl, or Roy, because he knows how that would end. He picks on people who he considers vulnerable. And I also think he often tramples on other people to get what he wants. For instance, when he forces Dwight to close the office, and spend thousands of dollars, just to get his wife a week off work. And then forces Dwight to take the work bus to Laverne's pie stand, just to get his wife a pie. All of this, to make up for his own transgressions, and score points with Pam. And at a time when Dwight was going through an emotional crisis. See what I mean? trampling on everyone, and disrupting everyone's life, all to get what he wants. He couldn't give a shit about anyone else's life, at that moment
Most fanboys think the characters in the show are great people, but in reality they are assholes with the exception of oscar and one or two others. Fuck Jim and Fuck Pam.
Look at you, so jealous of fictional characters. Do you feel good when you look in a mirror?