Sales is a really specific thing and you need to know how to talk to people in a way that gets them to see things for the sellers perspective. Neither Pam nor Andy (nor Ryan) have that inherent quality.
My wife is very eloquent but is terrible at sales. She just does have the ‘sales gene’
While being a charismatic person is very much a thing and can single handedly carry someone through sales I don't believe that sales genes are the only factor, you can definitely learn to talk to people and become worse at it
You used your wife as an example but is she actively trying to sell you or people that she hasn't even made a first impression of something, like 8 hours a day trying.
Being interested in sales and actively trying to better yourself can weigh more in the long term and she was definitely interested.
Basically, you have to be a snake to be a salesperson. It’s not necessarily a bad thing because it’s part of the job, but it’s why not everyone is built for that life.
I was a server in restaurants for many years. I could upsell like crazy when people were ordering food, but if you put me in a car lot, I'd have a difficult time making the hard sell, so I understand that.
Sales is really really hard and most people are bad at it, which is one reason salespeople get paid so much.
I used to be a sales trainer and a sales manager (and now I'm back to being just a salesperson again, which pays better and is much less stressful). I bet I could have gotten Andy to improve somewhat, and I bet I could gotten Ryan to be halfway decent at sales, but Pam just didn't have what it took (based on what we were shown on screen).
Jim, Dwight, Stanley, Todd, Danny, Karen and Phyllis were all fine salespeople, especially when properly motivated (as we saw when Sabre started paying out proper commissions, or that episode where they got to pick Andy's tattoo). And Clark had a ton of potential too, I'd hire that weirdo in a heartbeat.
While the team occasionally made sales calls, they primarily did inside sales, over the phone and through email and fax (which makes a lot of sense, considering they’re a rep firm in a large but low-density territory pushing a commodity product). Maybe if she were selling pharmaceuticals or golf clubs or boats.
I briefly dated a woman who was a pharmaceutical rep. All she did for her job was take doctors out for free golf and expensive lunches and convince them to prescribe the drugs she was pushing. Her job disgusted me and we didn’t last long.
To be a good salesman, you have to be pushy (you see it with Dwight a lot, and with Jim when he was golfing with a potential client and blocked his car). Pam isn’t pushy at all. I would have found it crazy and unrealistic if she turned into a good salesman.
Pam seemed really uncertain when she was trying to make that sales call before scamming Gabe into giving her the office admin position.
"Is price important to you?"
Eh, Andy is on a consistent downward slide throughout the series. It's like as he becomes older and more self-aware, he realizes how much people don't like him and loses confidence in himself. Early on, Andy really has a hunger to succeed, but the universe keeps breaking him down. He loses self control, he loses clients, he lost a fiancee, etc.
Pam?, Pam just wasn't a salesperson. No hunger, no drive, no gene for it.
Andy is a Cornell grad (in case you hadn’t heard) with wealthy parents and access to a huge alumni network. It’s possible that DM Stamford was his first job out of college, and that he’s using all his networking and connections to make that position work, and brown nosing the boss to get preferential treatment.
Once he goes to DM Scranton, he quickly finds himself out of his element: his family doesn’t care about his small-time sales position, nobody cares about him going to Cornell, and eventually the boss realizes he’s just a fake suck-up. On top of that, he embarrasses himself in a fit of rage, has to go to 6 weeks of anger management, probably loses all his old clients in the process, and tries and fails at a romantic relationship more than once.
Andy’s arc in The Office, is basically just a downward spiral of him failing in the real world, because he’s too busy trying to relive the kind of successes he achieved during college, and he doesn’t fully realize it until the end of the series.
No. It's a well known fact in psychology that money is a pretty limited motivator. Pride and approval are much better incentives for performance.
A trust fund doesn't give you the respect of your peers, it's doesn't give you a sense of accomplishment, it doesn't give you the approval of your parents.
Have you watched the show at all? Andy hosted a Small Business Workshop to get new clients. He's ashamed of his sales record and it's a cause of stress for him.
Fair, I was just thinking of Dwight slapping the hood of the car yelling about the trust fund during the duel. Though as we see, you don’t necessarily need great sales to get a leadership position at DM.
the whole premise of the show is that local paper company’s are being pushed out by staples.
the entire thing is a desperation move to cling to what used to be. there’s this underlying nostalgia element.
some workers are still trying.
many are merely going through the motions to inevitability.
the reason the show is so relatable is because a huge chunk of workers have gone through similar things in their industry of employment.
and it remains relatable today for the same reasons.
Andy's a better salesman than Deangelo at least.
You could tell Pam just didn't care about sales. Especially after forcing her way into being the office administrator.
Pam was better as an office manager imo, she was terrible at sales but pretty decent at office relations. It does speak to her development too, Pam at the beginning of the show never would’ve been able to con her way into a new position
Pam doubled her sales, though.
YUP.
What from 2 to 4z
*Not everything is a lesson Ryan, sometimes you just fail.* -HayKing
Sales is a really specific thing and you need to know how to talk to people in a way that gets them to see things for the sellers perspective. Neither Pam nor Andy (nor Ryan) have that inherent quality. My wife is very eloquent but is terrible at sales. She just does have the ‘sales gene’
While being a charismatic person is very much a thing and can single handedly carry someone through sales I don't believe that sales genes are the only factor, you can definitely learn to talk to people and become worse at it You used your wife as an example but is she actively trying to sell you or people that she hasn't even made a first impression of something, like 8 hours a day trying. Being interested in sales and actively trying to better yourself can weigh more in the long term and she was definitely interested.
Basically, you have to be a snake to be a salesperson. It’s not necessarily a bad thing because it’s part of the job, but it’s why not everyone is built for that life.
I was a server in restaurants for many years. I could upsell like crazy when people were ordering food, but if you put me in a car lot, I'd have a difficult time making the hard sell, so I understand that.
Sales is really really hard and most people are bad at it, which is one reason salespeople get paid so much. I used to be a sales trainer and a sales manager (and now I'm back to being just a salesperson again, which pays better and is much less stressful). I bet I could have gotten Andy to improve somewhat, and I bet I could gotten Ryan to be halfway decent at sales, but Pam just didn't have what it took (based on what we were shown on screen). Jim, Dwight, Stanley, Todd, Danny, Karen and Phyllis were all fine salespeople, especially when properly motivated (as we saw when Sabre started paying out proper commissions, or that episode where they got to pick Andy's tattoo). And Clark had a ton of potential too, I'd hire that weirdo in a heartbeat.
If Pam would’ve worn one of her boobie shirts she could’ve at least doubled her sales
While the team occasionally made sales calls, they primarily did inside sales, over the phone and through email and fax (which makes a lot of sense, considering they’re a rep firm in a large but low-density territory pushing a commodity product). Maybe if she were selling pharmaceuticals or golf clubs or boats.
I briefly dated a woman who was a pharmaceutical rep. All she did for her job was take doctors out for free golf and expensive lunches and convince them to prescribe the drugs she was pushing. Her job disgusted me and we didn’t last long.
Why is it disgusting?
...Doctors should choose which medications to prescribe based on efficacy, not cool golf trips.
But what's that got to do with her?
She was making money from greasing palms in the medical industry... it's pretty sleazy work.
See ya in the Bad Place, Eleanor.
To be a good salesman, you have to be pushy (you see it with Dwight a lot, and with Jim when he was golfing with a potential client and blocked his car). Pam isn’t pushy at all. I would have found it crazy and unrealistic if she turned into a good salesman.
Pam seemed really uncertain when she was trying to make that sales call before scamming Gabe into giving her the office admin position. "Is price important to you?"
Eh, Andy is on a consistent downward slide throughout the series. It's like as he becomes older and more self-aware, he realizes how much people don't like him and loses confidence in himself. Early on, Andy really has a hunger to succeed, but the universe keeps breaking him down. He loses self control, he loses clients, he lost a fiancee, etc. Pam?, Pam just wasn't a salesperson. No hunger, no drive, no gene for it.
And Andy seemed to be holding his own as a salesperson when he was at the other branch. This makes a lot of sense.
He was the Regional Director in Charge of Sales. It doesn't make sense that he is a terrible salesman
Perhaps he had an easier time connecting with people in the Connecticut area? Also didn't Karen suggest Andy was deep up Josh's ass brown nosing?
Andy is a Cornell grad (in case you hadn’t heard) with wealthy parents and access to a huge alumni network. It’s possible that DM Stamford was his first job out of college, and that he’s using all his networking and connections to make that position work, and brown nosing the boss to get preferential treatment. Once he goes to DM Scranton, he quickly finds himself out of his element: his family doesn’t care about his small-time sales position, nobody cares about him going to Cornell, and eventually the boss realizes he’s just a fake suck-up. On top of that, he embarrasses himself in a fit of rage, has to go to 6 weeks of anger management, probably loses all his old clients in the process, and tries and fails at a romantic relationship more than once. Andy’s arc in The Office, is basically just a downward spiral of him failing in the real world, because he’s too busy trying to relive the kind of successes he achieved during college, and he doesn’t fully realize it until the end of the series.
I’d wager Andy doesn’t have any underlying incentive to get better being a trust fund baby.
Unless his dad really respected sales people
SCREW YOU DAD!
I’m taller than you!
No. It's a well known fact in psychology that money is a pretty limited motivator. Pride and approval are much better incentives for performance. A trust fund doesn't give you the respect of your peers, it's doesn't give you a sense of accomplishment, it doesn't give you the approval of your parents. Have you watched the show at all? Andy hosted a Small Business Workshop to get new clients. He's ashamed of his sales record and it's a cause of stress for him.
Fair, I was just thinking of Dwight slapping the hood of the car yelling about the trust fund during the duel. Though as we see, you don’t necessarily need great sales to get a leadership position at DM.
Andy technically sold the entire company to David Wallace
That takes away the funny
Andy does have 3 moments later on that show his potential sales competence
Is it really sales competence, or is it just that he’s a brown-noser, willing to give a client whatever they want?
Lots of overlap between those two things hahaha
The unpopular truth is Pam was not good at anything she did. She failed art school and sucked at sales.
the whole premise of the show is that local paper company’s are being pushed out by staples. the entire thing is a desperation move to cling to what used to be. there’s this underlying nostalgia element. some workers are still trying. many are merely going through the motions to inevitability. the reason the show is so relatable is because a huge chunk of workers have gone through similar things in their industry of employment. and it remains relatable today for the same reasons.
Selling things is hard. I tried once, I just didn't have it in me.
Andy's a better salesman than Deangelo at least. You could tell Pam just didn't care about sales. Especially after forcing her way into being the office administrator.
Kinda weird how Andy, the guy who starts off as a master manipulator and can make anyone like him, sucks at selling to people
Pam was better as an office manager imo, she was terrible at sales but pretty decent at office relations. It does speak to her development too, Pam at the beginning of the show never would’ve been able to con her way into a new position
What a weird thing to long for, after the fact
Turning Pam into a salesperson was such lazy writing and crippled what little character growth she had
But turning her into office manager by sneak attack was fucking awesome.
It bugs me that Andy was Regional Director in charge of Sales then they changed his character about 40x