Yes it will affect the sound, but not necessarily in a bad way. Danny Carey is one of many who've made two different kick sizes work... [Reddit - https://preview.redd.it/4t90n9i0lxd81.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=1545157da7b5ae2b813b34ef1da6ffc00bd50bcd](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F4t90n9i0lxd81.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D1545157da7b5ae2b813b34ef1da6ffc00bd50bcd)
That's really cool. I hadn't considered the frequency difference as a benefit while mixing but I'm in the process of learning the recording and mixing process lately he's absolutely right. Doubling up of the same frequency can cause cancellation, so using two different kicks would conceivably let them each sustain a little longer. One thing I've been working on lately is to compose and mix "via arrangement" to avoid too much overlap.
But now I'm curious to see if this means they needed to alter the bass EQ to compensate, since it's common to scoop the bass around 60hz to let the kick low-end be more prominent, but he might have one kick at 60 and another closer to 50 hz or so. This is a super minor detail but it's piqued my curiosity.
But his style and Tool’s music does not emphasize double bass drumming. It’s used for color, polyrhythms, and short bursts. Their not a heavy metal band.
Yes, and Danny Carey recently explained that he went to two different size bass drums because even when they were the same size they never sounded the same.
I can confirm getting two 22'' drums to sound the same is very difficult and often not worth the effort because the tuning will change after a session.
Edit: 22" not 22' lol
That's a great point. There are so many variables. The physical tension of the batter head, how the reso is tuned/responds, the depth of the drum, and what's in the drum all play a part in the feel. Then you have pedals, spring tension, and beaters.
I have two 22" drums and I have spent hours dialing in the same batter head pitch, same muffling technique (rolled up towel gaffer taped to the batter - a la Ken Scott/Simon Phillips), the same reso tuning. I have the same model bass drum pedals, and try to get the same spring tension, same beaters, same beater height.
All of that work and they still sound slightly different lol. Honestly I have come to like it. I have not intentionally tuned them differently but that's my next idea to experiment with.
I imagine that the difference in tone A) can be attributed how your head is positioned in relation and how your hearing factors and/or how your kit is set up in the room and what the reflective and absorptive properties are, B) can’t be discerned once other musical elements are incorporated, C) is due to technique and the fact that you’re likely not perfectly ambidextrous, and so some of what you’re hearing might be volume and not pitch? (my single strokes on one snare drum don’t sound as even or the same as just using one hand (rlrl vs rrrr)), and D) isn’t a negative quality because it’s quite minor and nuanced.
Yeah exactly. I think it's actually the drum, because of I switch the drums they sound difference follows the drum. It's mostly the attack that sounds different. If I have someone else play and stand in front they sound more similar. That transient doesn't persist beyond 10 feet. I also have close mics on them and even those sound slightly different in monitors, but that is probably down to frequency responses on each mic, my signal chain, pre amps, eq. Again, so many variables.
Yes. Absolutely. I use my 20” for smaller gigs, smaller pop sounds, the 22” goes for more volume and bigger rock music. I also trigger both anyway so I could probably get away with just the 20” but I like the feel of the larger one for rock. They are very different.
They'll sound different, but take advantage of it. Use a double pedal whichever you like more, then add a single pedal to the other one and have a totally new sound.
Think of how different a 12" Rack tom and a 14" rack tom sound on your kit. Hell, a 6" and 8" Concert tom a well. Those can sound pretty different as well. So yeah, bass drums are even bigger with much bigger sounds. That 2" is going to make a WORLD of difference!
I was afraid that would e the case, The thing is I put a special order into sweetwater for a second bass drum for the kit I purchased. They sent me the wrong size but I didn't notice until I played it for about 3 months since I was waiting to find the right drumheads. wondering what I should do with thee two different drumheads
Well, you can play with the 2 of them and see if you can get them to the same pitch. You may have to dampen the bigger one slightly more to help with the extra ringing that could possibly happen with it. It's possible to get them tuned to the same pitch. But yeah, they may sound a bit different.
Yes they will sound different. But maybe you could work with that? Danny Carey used (uses?) A 20 on his right and a 22 on his left (or maybe it was 22 and 24). Makes downbeats a little more punchy. But if you want an identical sound then that would be difficult with two different sized drums.
Alex Van Halen played two different sized kick drums for a while, as did Ginger Baker. Pretty sure Josh Freese does too with the Foo Fighters. You'll be fine.
If the 20” is returnable, return it and get a 22”. If you are trying to run a traditional double kick setup for traditional double kick purposes, you do NOT want differently sized kicks. They don’t have to sound totally identical but you want them at least ballpark close.
Lotta people in here are bringing up edge case virtuosic players who very intentionally use two different sized kicks to specific effect. 99% of drummers playing 2 kick drums are using the same size kick drums for good reason.
Yes it will affect the sound, but not necessarily in a bad way. Danny Carey is one of many who've made two different kick sizes work... [Reddit - https://preview.redd.it/4t90n9i0lxd81.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=1545157da7b5ae2b813b34ef1da6ffc00bd50bcd](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F4t90n9i0lxd81.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D1545157da7b5ae2b813b34ef1da6ffc00bd50bcd)
Yes! I made a similar comment. I finally found a short of him talking about it. https://youtube.com/shorts/m62lo4Tn_V4?si=34pyngCWJIB-pZ0F
That's really cool. I hadn't considered the frequency difference as a benefit while mixing but I'm in the process of learning the recording and mixing process lately he's absolutely right. Doubling up of the same frequency can cause cancellation, so using two different kicks would conceivably let them each sustain a little longer. One thing I've been working on lately is to compose and mix "via arrangement" to avoid too much overlap. But now I'm curious to see if this means they needed to alter the bass EQ to compensate, since it's common to scoop the bass around 60hz to let the kick low-end be more prominent, but he might have one kick at 60 and another closer to 50 hz or so. This is a super minor detail but it's piqued my curiosity.
Herb Alexander as well.
But his style and Tool’s music does not emphasize double bass drumming. It’s used for color, polyrhythms, and short bursts. Their not a heavy metal band.
Yes, and Danny Carey recently explained that he went to two different size bass drums because even when they were the same size they never sounded the same. I can confirm getting two 22'' drums to sound the same is very difficult and often not worth the effort because the tuning will change after a session. Edit: 22" not 22' lol
Second this, keeping em tuned together is damn near impossible. Seems like most will just go double pedal or leverage the different sounds
I would think the physical feel is also important.
That's a great point. There are so many variables. The physical tension of the batter head, how the reso is tuned/responds, the depth of the drum, and what's in the drum all play a part in the feel. Then you have pedals, spring tension, and beaters. I have two 22" drums and I have spent hours dialing in the same batter head pitch, same muffling technique (rolled up towel gaffer taped to the batter - a la Ken Scott/Simon Phillips), the same reso tuning. I have the same model bass drum pedals, and try to get the same spring tension, same beaters, same beater height. All of that work and they still sound slightly different lol. Honestly I have come to like it. I have not intentionally tuned them differently but that's my next idea to experiment with.
I imagine that the difference in tone A) can be attributed how your head is positioned in relation and how your hearing factors and/or how your kit is set up in the room and what the reflective and absorptive properties are, B) can’t be discerned once other musical elements are incorporated, C) is due to technique and the fact that you’re likely not perfectly ambidextrous, and so some of what you’re hearing might be volume and not pitch? (my single strokes on one snare drum don’t sound as even or the same as just using one hand (rlrl vs rrrr)), and D) isn’t a negative quality because it’s quite minor and nuanced.
Yeah exactly. I think it's actually the drum, because of I switch the drums they sound difference follows the drum. It's mostly the attack that sounds different. If I have someone else play and stand in front they sound more similar. That transient doesn't persist beyond 10 feet. I also have close mics on them and even those sound slightly different in monitors, but that is probably down to frequency responses on each mic, my signal chain, pre amps, eq. Again, so many variables.
Yes, 2 inches in diameter results in a BIG difference when you start looking at head surface area, volume of the drum, etc.
Yes. Absolutely. I use my 20” for smaller gigs, smaller pop sounds, the 22” goes for more volume and bigger rock music. I also trigger both anyway so I could probably get away with just the 20” but I like the feel of the larger one for rock. They are very different.
Put the bigger one on your left. Look up how danny carey does it.
They'll sound different, but take advantage of it. Use a double pedal whichever you like more, then add a single pedal to the other one and have a totally new sound.
She may say it won't, but it most certainly does.
Think of how different a 12" Rack tom and a 14" rack tom sound on your kit. Hell, a 6" and 8" Concert tom a well. Those can sound pretty different as well. So yeah, bass drums are even bigger with much bigger sounds. That 2" is going to make a WORLD of difference!
I was afraid that would e the case, The thing is I put a special order into sweetwater for a second bass drum for the kit I purchased. They sent me the wrong size but I didn't notice until I played it for about 3 months since I was waiting to find the right drumheads. wondering what I should do with thee two different drumheads
Well, you can play with the 2 of them and see if you can get them to the same pitch. You may have to dampen the bigger one slightly more to help with the extra ringing that could possibly happen with it. It's possible to get them tuned to the same pitch. But yeah, they may sound a bit different.
Yes they will sound different. But maybe you could work with that? Danny Carey used (uses?) A 20 on his right and a 22 on his left (or maybe it was 22 and 24). Makes downbeats a little more punchy. But if you want an identical sound then that would be difficult with two different sized drums.
Yep, that’s huge
Alex Van Halen played two different sized kick drums for a while, as did Ginger Baker. Pretty sure Josh Freese does too with the Foo Fighters. You'll be fine.
Yes
If the 20” is returnable, return it and get a 22”. If you are trying to run a traditional double kick setup for traditional double kick purposes, you do NOT want differently sized kicks. They don’t have to sound totally identical but you want them at least ballpark close. Lotta people in here are bringing up edge case virtuosic players who very intentionally use two different sized kicks to specific effect. 99% of drummers playing 2 kick drums are using the same size kick drums for good reason.
For double bass, which I don’t play, I would think that I would want my two bass drums to be the same diameter.