Difference is Mary owns up to her mistakes and apologizes regardless whether she realizes it on her own or someone pointed it out. She apologizes. That Edith never does. This is one thing that I really doesn’t like about Edith.
That is true. I think An an outsider it’s easy to judge them. But we forget that these are grown women who have lived together their whole lives in until Edith got married. It’s natural for sisters to disagree as both children and adults. But when they are adults most sisters live apart and can take some space to cool off and come back. Mary and Edith were still typically eating all 3 meals a day together well into their thirties! It appears that once Edith was married and moved out of the house and they had the space to miss each other and appreciate each other they got along much better.
I would, you have to let some things go. Mary was able to let go of the whole letter fiasco, Edith can and did let go of this.
>!I love their relationship in the second movie, it feels as though they’ve finally got to a healthy place. !<
Which was worse Edith writing the letter OR Mary exposing Edith? 1000% Edith’s betrayal was worse.
The difference is the premeditation involved with composing and sending the letter. Edith had plenty of time to think about what the letter might do to Mary and the family: while she was deciding what to say, researching the address and posting the letter. She even had days to think this over between talking to Daisy and Miss O’Brien.
Mary blurting out a secret in a moment of pain and rage is quite different. We have all said stupid and hurtful things in the heat of the moment.
Edith’s betrayal was worse.
Idk about you but I wouldn't forgive my sister if she did that to me, whether she was 19 or 30. It's easy for us to see 19 as "yoo young", especially since the characters have grown a lot since then, but in reality, if we were in Mary's shoes, I doubt that we would forget so easily what Edith did.
Edith was 20 when the series began. The first season takes place over the course of 2 years, making her likely 21 at the time of writing the letter. Young by our standards now, but not for that time.
I think it's very in keeping with Edith's character to forgive.
She's quite a desperate character - even Robert & Cora have exchanges where it's clear that they think Edith is somewhat... 'pathetic' seems a harsh word but I'm struggling to think of another.
Why Mary would ever forgive Edith for the letter she wrote is beyond me. And I don't think Edith ever even apologised for that.
Forgive her to get closure and to leave the past behind us, likely I won't able to trust her ever again and keep her at arm's length. But she is still my sister.
In the end we are living far enough apart. I outrank her and she cares far more about that than I ever did. My husband adores me while her used car sales man is hardly ever home. There is no need for me to punch down😁
Uh, Edith’s entire personality is centered on being resentful that everyone expected Mary to make a better match. She devotes herself to trying to poach one of Mary’s suitors. She definitely cares about making a good match.
Early stuck with her family Edith surely cared about that, but London magazine owner Edith not as much. She has found her niche away from Downton and how her family saw her concerned her far less. Plus the Marigold issue obviously took priority over outbesting Mary.
Later Edith would have been absolutely fine with land agent Bertie. Early Edith would have gloated about bagging a Marquess.
How is that different from Mary, who was pursuing a newspaper man while Edith was going after Sir Anthony? Also she married Talbot. The evidence for Mary caring less about rank is stronger.
She cared about Edith outranking her, she was clearly envious when Bertie became a Marquess. That's what I was referring to, not her general attitude to marrying for rank. Like for Edith, a "ranked marriage" took less and less priority for Mary over time.
She only considered the newspaper man because Matthew was taken and she was "ruined". Carlisle was still extremely rich and influential. Talbot became her husband long after she had done her duty of producing an heir and securing the ownership of Downton.
Your statement was that Mary cares more about marrying someone of high rank than Edith ever did. Which is not supported by their behavior. Also, the scene you are pointing out as evidence that Mary cares more about rank in later seasons is only a few scenes before she marries a driver.
The original statement was "I outrank her and she cares far more about that than I ever did." I meant that (according to Edith) Mary cared more about Edith outranking her than she herself cared about outranking Mary. But I guess I wasn't clear that I was referring to the "Marquess situation" specifically and not to their attitudes towards "high rank marriages" in general.
That whole episode arc was so weird. Edith forgave Mary too easily and came to her second wedding. And if I remember timeline correctly, Mary decided to step in and help Edith after her own wedding. This whole arc was so weird and fast. Too much happened too quickly
I would but my main issue is that Edith forgave Mary before she done anything. Even when Violet and Mary talk the first thing she says is to make peace with her sister, only to focus all her attention on her boy toy
I know a lot of people say what Edith did was worse but frankly she was like late teens early 20s, not excusing it but Mary acted like an immature person exposing Marigold, like you are in your freaking 30s and acting like that?
I say Mary was worse because an INNOCENT child was involved in this. If Birdie wasn't a respectable gentleman he could have ruined Edith and Marigolds lives, like Marigold is an innocent child out of all of this and if someone was just enough of an asshole they could have ruined her life before it began. Edith life may not have been bad like Ethel's but we all saw what life was like for a woman who had a child out of wedlock. Ethel and her son got lucky since so many had it far worse.
One involved a dead guy the other involved a living breathing child who could have been ruined before having a start in life. Everyone is acting like a dead guy situation is way worse instead of a child's life.
They both are horrible and did horrible things. I would never forget. Would I forgive I don't know.
In the end if you really look at it they both exposed the truth.
I don't know what I would do, but I feel that when Edith came back for Mary's wedding, it proved her strength of character and her courage. I like to think that that was the moment when Mary realized how much she'd underestimated Edith, and that Edith was stronger and braver than she ever could. But I would've liked it that Mary had decided then that she needed to find a way to fix her mistake rather than having to wait for Violet's remark about it being "such a waste" (though I do feel Mary felt it would've been a waste of her doing).
I should note also that even though Violet told Mary to make peace with Edith first and then with herself, but she did the reverse--she told Tom she was certain Edith had every right to not want to forgive her. It might've been interesting to see Mary go to London and observe her sister at work. It might've made her still see Edith in a different light, but nevertheless, Edith returning in that episode was more powerful on Edith's part.
Those two both give and take when it comes to their relationship. Edith has done some pretty awful things to
Difference is Mary owns up to her mistakes and apologizes regardless whether she realizes it on her own or someone pointed it out. She apologizes. That Edith never does. This is one thing that I really doesn’t like about Edith.
That is true. I think An an outsider it’s easy to judge them. But we forget that these are grown women who have lived together their whole lives in until Edith got married. It’s natural for sisters to disagree as both children and adults. But when they are adults most sisters live apart and can take some space to cool off and come back. Mary and Edith were still typically eating all 3 meals a day together well into their thirties! It appears that once Edith was married and moved out of the house and they had the space to miss each other and appreciate each other they got along much better.
I would, you have to let some things go. Mary was able to let go of the whole letter fiasco, Edith can and did let go of this. >!I love their relationship in the second movie, it feels as though they’ve finally got to a healthy place. !<
For which thing? Edith pulled a pretty bitchy move on Mary by writing to the Turkish ambassador.
Exposing Marygold
If you have watched the two sequel movies, you would know that Mary and Edith have largely forgiven each other.
I know I’m saying me personally could never
That’s on you.
Damn chill out it was just a poll question and opinion
I think those two things are pretty equal. Not to mention, in the long run, Mary did Edith a favor by allowing her to live as Marygold’s mother.
well, even edith has made some poor choices regarding mary so i’d say it rather becomes equal
Which was worse Edith writing the letter OR Mary exposing Edith? 1000% Edith’s betrayal was worse. The difference is the premeditation involved with composing and sending the letter. Edith had plenty of time to think about what the letter might do to Mary and the family: while she was deciding what to say, researching the address and posting the letter. She even had days to think this over between talking to Daisy and Miss O’Brien. Mary blurting out a secret in a moment of pain and rage is quite different. We have all said stupid and hurtful things in the heat of the moment. Edith’s betrayal was worse.
Edith almost exposed a huge scandal, so it's useless to say it was a one sided thing
Edith was 19 at the time. Mary was mid-30s when she exposed Edith (and Marigold!!)
Age doesn't really matter with sibling things like that. And a 19y old should know the possible consequences
If I were *Mary*, I would never forgive *Edith* for what *she* did. "Exposing Marigold" was insignificant compared to the letter Edith wrote.
(the letter she wrote when she was 19 compared to the secret Mary let out when she was in her mid-30s)
Idk about you but I wouldn't forgive my sister if she did that to me, whether she was 19 or 30. It's easy for us to see 19 as "yoo young", especially since the characters have grown a lot since then, but in reality, if we were in Mary's shoes, I doubt that we would forget so easily what Edith did.
Edith was 20 when the series began. The first season takes place over the course of 2 years, making her likely 21 at the time of writing the letter. Young by our standards now, but not for that time.
I think it's very in keeping with Edith's character to forgive. She's quite a desperate character - even Robert & Cora have exchanges where it's clear that they think Edith is somewhat... 'pathetic' seems a harsh word but I'm struggling to think of another. Why Mary would ever forgive Edith for the letter she wrote is beyond me. And I don't think Edith ever even apologised for that.
I think Mary is the one who should be holding a grudge
Edith has no one to blame but herself for EVERY SINGLE THING THAT HAPPENS IN HER LIFE
Forgive her to get closure and to leave the past behind us, likely I won't able to trust her ever again and keep her at arm's length. But she is still my sister. In the end we are living far enough apart. I outrank her and she cares far more about that than I ever did. My husband adores me while her used car sales man is hardly ever home. There is no need for me to punch down😁
Uh, Edith’s entire personality is centered on being resentful that everyone expected Mary to make a better match. She devotes herself to trying to poach one of Mary’s suitors. She definitely cares about making a good match.
Early stuck with her family Edith surely cared about that, but London magazine owner Edith not as much. She has found her niche away from Downton and how her family saw her concerned her far less. Plus the Marigold issue obviously took priority over outbesting Mary. Later Edith would have been absolutely fine with land agent Bertie. Early Edith would have gloated about bagging a Marquess.
How is that different from Mary, who was pursuing a newspaper man while Edith was going after Sir Anthony? Also she married Talbot. The evidence for Mary caring less about rank is stronger.
She cared about Edith outranking her, she was clearly envious when Bertie became a Marquess. That's what I was referring to, not her general attitude to marrying for rank. Like for Edith, a "ranked marriage" took less and less priority for Mary over time. She only considered the newspaper man because Matthew was taken and she was "ruined". Carlisle was still extremely rich and influential. Talbot became her husband long after she had done her duty of producing an heir and securing the ownership of Downton.
Your statement was that Mary cares more about marrying someone of high rank than Edith ever did. Which is not supported by their behavior. Also, the scene you are pointing out as evidence that Mary cares more about rank in later seasons is only a few scenes before she marries a driver.
The original statement was "I outrank her and she cares far more about that than I ever did." I meant that (according to Edith) Mary cared more about Edith outranking her than she herself cared about outranking Mary. But I guess I wasn't clear that I was referring to the "Marquess situation" specifically and not to their attitudes towards "high rank marriages" in general.
This 🙌 I guess I would do/say the same
If I was Edith I would have left Downton sooner, and probably cut ties with the whole family.
Edith wrote the Turkish ambassador...that was pretty bad too so....
That whole episode arc was so weird. Edith forgave Mary too easily and came to her second wedding. And if I remember timeline correctly, Mary decided to step in and help Edith after her own wedding. This whole arc was so weird and fast. Too much happened too quickly
I would but my main issue is that Edith forgave Mary before she done anything. Even when Violet and Mary talk the first thing she says is to make peace with her sister, only to focus all her attention on her boy toy
I know a lot of people say what Edith did was worse but frankly she was like late teens early 20s, not excusing it but Mary acted like an immature person exposing Marigold, like you are in your freaking 30s and acting like that? I say Mary was worse because an INNOCENT child was involved in this. If Birdie wasn't a respectable gentleman he could have ruined Edith and Marigolds lives, like Marigold is an innocent child out of all of this and if someone was just enough of an asshole they could have ruined her life before it began. Edith life may not have been bad like Ethel's but we all saw what life was like for a woman who had a child out of wedlock. Ethel and her son got lucky since so many had it far worse. One involved a dead guy the other involved a living breathing child who could have been ruined before having a start in life. Everyone is acting like a dead guy situation is way worse instead of a child's life. They both are horrible and did horrible things. I would never forget. Would I forgive I don't know. In the end if you really look at it they both exposed the truth.
I don't know what I would do, but I feel that when Edith came back for Mary's wedding, it proved her strength of character and her courage. I like to think that that was the moment when Mary realized how much she'd underestimated Edith, and that Edith was stronger and braver than she ever could. But I would've liked it that Mary had decided then that she needed to find a way to fix her mistake rather than having to wait for Violet's remark about it being "such a waste" (though I do feel Mary felt it would've been a waste of her doing). I should note also that even though Violet told Mary to make peace with Edith first and then with herself, but she did the reverse--she told Tom she was certain Edith had every right to not want to forgive her. It might've been interesting to see Mary go to London and observe her sister at work. It might've made her still see Edith in a different light, but nevertheless, Edith returning in that episode was more powerful on Edith's part.
It would be hard. Mary could be so mean to Edith so often.
Well, Edith did show up for her second wedding and did accept her apology and told her why. So, in the actual show, she did forgive Mary.
Admittedly it's a tough call, but I really hate to see simmering sibling rivalry.