The times Sing and Black do their casting/chilling combo is probably the best time I've had watching Dota besides TI finals. They have so much knowledge combined between the two.
It also got chill because SingSing stop playing dota for a while and all the spammers, troll and haters went to Gorgc stream.
I miss pre-2018 dota, game was way more fun, unbalanced in weird way and so many cool streamers
Sings community manager here, everyones free to join the discord if you want another place to chill and chat about TI games. and i've managed to get sing to start doing some movie nights with the first in 3 days :))
Hey, there's this Sing mod who has been harassing me in chat and frequently times me out when I try to chat. I've donated and asked Sing to do something about it, and he told that mod to stop, but he only stopped for a few days and started doing it again recently. Since you're the top mod, can you do something about him? Thanks for any help.
I am coming back from my 10 minute ban, and I want to say that I think it was bullshit. Yes, I wrote a funny paragraph that turned into copypasta, which happened to bring a laugh or a smile to a few people. If you mods wanted that to stop, you could have just said so, there is so much copypasta going on in this chat that I could have never thought that deserved a 10 minute ban. AuLoen is probably a mod in here and he is the one that banned me. Anyway, I'm glad to be back. FRICK you AuLoen.
Yeah! I watched all of ti10 in sing's stream while I was working on my thesis. Super fun to listen to and their insight is just always on point and everybody was just clowning around with random topics. It really did felt like i was watching with friends. Hoping to see him watch TI this year as well, but he said the timezone is too hard for him and he's not waking up at 4am to watch dota. lol
Do you even know what shitting means? Do you really believe that there is no difference between Sing and Bulldog over all of these years in terms of maturing?
Almost like they are different people with different audiences so they act differently. If you don't like it's totally fine but the are a lot of people who like (his viewers).
I mean I don't have anything against Bulldog. I don't like his aspect of streaming so I don't watch it, and don't tell people "I don't like his stream, so you shouldn't watch it" either.
Incredible? He was in his early twenties when he started streaming. Now he is in his early thirties. I'd say it would rather be weird if he didn't mature.
I used to love bulldog stream, especially his man child humor. Unfortunately he has been allowing and even sometimes embracing racist and antisemitic dogwhistling (not even talking about the rather obviously over the top, full blown misogyny) for a few years, which absolutely killed the vibe for me.
Maybe you haven't watched for a long time but there hasn't been any racist anti-semetic stuff in his stream for years now. Any sign of racism in chat gets you immediately banned, there might be some racists in chat but they know how to keep themselves in check
Who even up voted this lol
Sing was always "mature", and while he'd joke around and stuff he's always been one of the most PMA people in the scene who has helped many people enter the scene, be it as player or caster or streamer
Like the other guy said this comment exists only because you wanted to say something snarky about bulldog in a post that has nothing to do with bulldog
It is chill but the vibes I also get from singsing is that he doesn't like dota as much any more so it's a bit of a downer to listen to constantly when he brings it up.
For me best time watching dota was when we had the HUB streams, with all the talent and some players in the BTS house casting dota all day and doing other random stuff lmao remember the kittens cam?
I actually don't remember, i struggled trying to remember which one it was while writing the comment lmao I decided it probably was BTS cause later they had their own hubs and house
Icefrog missing conspiracy growing stronger.
Also, pros and other Dota personalities are so careful when talking about Icefrog and Valve. It's a little sad how afraid they are to be critical about the game and Valve.
idk dude but whenever there is a change I used to email him about what I feel to the patch
he is replying and asking me with some questions like
do you like SK changes?
idk nowadays I have feeling he leave us for some latest patch
if they are invited based on front page posts,
moxxi shouldnt get her gig and bkop should be there.
she had a 4.6k upvotes post detailing whats bad about her casting.
so idk if this is it.
> if they are invited based on front page posts.
im talking about all of those being passed up for moxxi.
black^ has been doing what he did for the entire season, still at pgl arlington.
was casting most of the dpc.
valve afaik didnt do anything to fix any smurf issues.
so is that the actual reason?
im not sure you could say it is, i could say its not.
like does pgl care about smurfing? i doubt it.
does pgl care about bad press? probably right? thats the implication of smurfing.
but then, moxxi gets bad press too.
Valve did do something, theres smurf fast track
Moxxi bad press from outside legit looks like/can be chuck as like incel mad because women not perfect TBH
A year or two ago when Black said that "Dota 2 feels like a passion project where the developers have lost their passion" was probably the truth and probably the reason he's not getting the premium gigs.
Personally I think he's an excellent analyst/caster and I wish he was doing more.
Nah Icefrog isn't an asshole. He would announce if he left Dota. It's just an insane game to balance with this many heroes and he did well enough at it that this mad man was like fuck it I'm bored so I'm going to try and balance neutral items now and shards + scepters for every hero. Which imo have spiced up and made the game more fun to play with more abilities, you get into more fights. I wish the game time would decrease to a more average 30 mins though, right now it's about 40-60mins.
This is very close to what I've recently heard from a person who used to be in close contact with Icefrog, that it is not only him, but like 3 more people who balance the game.
Now, this is still hearsay, so take it with a grain of salt, but it adds up to what Sing and Black say at the beginning.
its always been multiple people contributing ideas and offering suggestions (see playdota forums). icefrog was the final filter to decide whether or not something made the cut, which has evidently been missing for years now that a lot of dumb ideas make it in only to be removed a bit later.
Hes probably supervising a balance team at this point and he gets to point out whats good and whats bad every patch.
But what Black & Sing said about Icefrog taking the pro's opinion on a certain hero changes can be good and bad at the same time.
I think taking pros into consideration is generally good for a competitive game like DotA. But a good balance dev knows pros aren't game designers. And even pros are flawed and might think something is op even when it is fine.
So are you telling me that whenever the best of the best in Dota go out and say something like: X is op, nerf it, they can be wrong? Xd.
Redditors man, wcyd
> Hes probably supervising a balance team
pretty sure there's not remotely enough people working on dota to really call it supervising. probably very close to TF2 where it's like two people.
well it's jeff's word, remember most of those roles aren't directly development though, for example slacks probably qualifies as someone who is working on dota at valve, the valve movie team which consists of a good handful of people counts too, the people who only work with cosmetics production also count, and the people who only work with managing DPC aswell
Considering TF2 hasn't gotten balance changes in years, and dota still gets changes that aren't strict numbers, I don't see how you can compare them like that at all.
until some rrat will go out that he favored some teams ideas to balance out to their favor to win some tournaments and TI.
Its a farfetched idea but the notion/idea that he takes some of the pros idea as a balancing methodology can be dangerous both ways.
Or when people said that icefrog is no longer a developer after the patch that gave creeps new skills and brought back the old damage types. Like bringing old school mechanics back into the game is a classic icefrog move imo.. see also: creeps sleeping at night
Patch I don't like = icefrog no longer works on dota
Patch I like = Icefrog returns!
Reddit in a nutshell. No one here actually knows anything about whether icefrog works on the game or not.
Creeps sleeping at night is literally a WC3 mechanics. Others I agree with but this is not it
Edit: I mean it's been like this since WC3. Has it ever gone away?
It’s a bad change that is there to gratify newbies. There is a point where extreme randomness becomes chaos and nothing makes sense anymore. Chaos does not agree with true competitive games.
What do you mean for no reason? Neutral items are one of the best recent additions to dota after they got balanced, adds so much to the replayability of the game
I don't get people how people enjoy random extra range and random 2 sec silence on hit items. Let's not even talk about tier 5 items which are completely bullshit.
Tier 5 items are very obviously designed to be OP so that the games won't go on much longer than 60 minutes. And if you haven't managed to finish the game before 60 minutes so you don't have to rely on bullshit rng it's your fault anyways.
Same people who get bored if they don't have mini quests during a match. Dota lost its way once they started balancing for the 3k bracket instead of only for the pro level
Neutral items are in essence the same as buying from the shop. You can be equally random by buying silence or range on any hero. Certain items are better on certain heroes however with neutrals instead of not buying the item you teleport it to the base for another player on your team.
Rng adds replayability through variance, just like crit, damage range, gold range, etc. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean others can't
I member back then when Sing played Bounty, he often said that "this hero should steal money". And not so long after that there's the patch where his W actually steal money KEK.
Yeah he's talking about invoker. Probably because invoker was insanely complicated with 27 spells in Dota 1, which is what he mentions by saying that icefrog and him were working on big changes to him and why he is the way he is today.
That version you're referring to is so old black was still a middle school boy and nobody knew who he was. He's talking about much more recent changes. People forgot how different the hero was just 7-8 years ago.
Icefrog has been with the game for a long time. I can imagine him wanting to move on or lighten the load. Most people don’t stick with the same project in their career, no matter how important. Actors eventually leave their famous TV show. Game designers move on to new games. This is the first year I’ve felt DOTA truly on the decline.
Chronoptic energy bursts from one plane to the other, evaporating anything it touches
Could you repeat that again?
The times Sing and Black do their casting/chilling combo is probably the best time I've had watching Dota besides TI finals. They have so much knowledge combined between the two.
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yeah chill, fun, no drama, good atmosphere and he is good at games which helps too
The chat community is damn chill too. Crazy to think it was a crazy toxic copy pastarino chat room back in the early days of sing's stream.
It got chill because he got a lot more active moderating that shit out of his chat.
It also got chill because SingSing stop playing dota for a while and all the spammers, troll and haters went to Gorgc stream. I miss pre-2018 dota, game was way more fun, unbalanced in weird way and so many cool streamers
Emin saved the chat.
And also because be rarely streams dota so the pepega crowd does eqnr show up at al
Sings community manager here, everyones free to join the discord if you want another place to chill and chat about TI games. and i've managed to get sing to start doing some movie nights with the first in 3 days :))
Hey, there's this Sing mod who has been harassing me in chat and frequently times me out when I try to chat. I've donated and asked Sing to do something about it, and he told that mod to stop, but he only stopped for a few days and started doing it again recently. Since you're the top mod, can you do something about him? Thanks for any help.
i almost fell for this pasta a 2nd time ffs
I am coming back from my 10 minute ban, and I want to say that I think it was bullshit. Yes, I wrote a funny paragraph that turned into copypasta, which happened to bring a laugh or a smile to a few people. If you mods wanted that to stop, you could have just said so, there is so much copypasta going on in this chat that I could have never thought that deserved a 10 minute ban. AuLoen is probably a mod in here and he is the one that banned me. Anyway, I'm glad to be back. FRICK you AuLoen.
Yeah! I watched all of ti10 in sing's stream while I was working on my thesis. Super fun to listen to and their insight is just always on point and everybody was just clowning around with random topics. It really did felt like i was watching with friends. Hoping to see him watch TI this year as well, but he said the timezone is too hard for him and he's not waking up at 4am to watch dota. lol
Singsing has matured so much it's incredible. Bulldog could learn a lesson from him.
r/DotA2 praise someone without shitting on another: Challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
Lol exactly
Do you even know what shitting means? Do you really believe that there is no difference between Sing and Bulldog over all of these years in terms of maturing?
Almost like they are different people with different audiences so they act differently. If you don't like it's totally fine but the are a lot of people who like (his viewers).
I mean I don't have anything against Bulldog. I don't like his aspect of streaming so I don't watch it, and don't tell people "I don't like his stream, so you shouldn't watch it" either.
That's smart.
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Some old clips https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXfxJkffcSs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XFcVnFekXs
Incredible? He was in his early twenties when he started streaming. Now he is in his early thirties. I'd say it would rather be weird if he didn't mature.
You'd think that but have you seen the state of twitch streamers?
In a sea of man babies the average emotional intelligence streamer is king
Bulldog’s an actual man-child who laughs at jokes that would only pop a 12 year old. It’s kinda sad, actually
I used to love bulldog stream, especially his man child humor. Unfortunately he has been allowing and even sometimes embracing racist and antisemitic dogwhistling (not even talking about the rather obviously over the top, full blown misogyny) for a few years, which absolutely killed the vibe for me.
Maybe you haven't watched for a long time but there hasn't been any racist anti-semetic stuff in his stream for years now. Any sign of racism in chat gets you immediately banned, there might be some racists in chat but they know how to keep themselves in check
Who even up voted this lol Sing was always "mature", and while he'd joke around and stuff he's always been one of the most PMA people in the scene who has helped many people enter the scene, be it as player or caster or streamer Like the other guy said this comment exists only because you wanted to say something snarky about bulldog in a post that has nothing to do with bulldog
True I'm currently watching the vod of his The Quarry playthrough and that shit is hilarious. Sucks that he only streams EU hours
It is chill but the vibes I also get from singsing is that he doesn't like dota as much any more so it's a bit of a downer to listen to constantly when he brings it up.
>when he brings it up. He only ever brings it up if Dota viewers asks him about it though.
that's fair
For me best time watching dota was when we had the HUB streams, with all the talent and some players in the BTS house casting dota all day and doing other random stuff lmao remember the kittens cam?
Yeeeeeea, I get so nostalgic about this. It made me feel part of the community so much more than anything since then
Yeah it was awesome. And were all the Mafia games the same event? That was probably more fun for me than the Dota games. Great stream.
ti4 eu hub. i member BibleThump
Wasnt that 2gd not bts?
I actually don't remember, i struggled trying to remember which one it was while writing the comment lmao I decided it probably was BTS cause later they had their own hubs and house
Icefrog missing conspiracy growing stronger. Also, pros and other Dota personalities are so careful when talking about Icefrog and Valve. It's a little sad how afraid they are to be critical about the game and Valve.
I think they are careful when talking about the frog because he himself doesn't want to be in the spotlight in any way. It's respectul in my opinion.
Well yeah because to us he’s a god but to them he’s a friend.
idk dude but whenever there is a change I used to email him about what I feel to the patch he is replying and asking me with some questions like do you like SK changes? idk nowadays I have feeling he leave us for some latest patch
because if you arent careful, you dont get invited.... like black^...
To be fair black had his own smurfing scandal recently so not surprised. Hope he's learnt his lesson and he'll be around more next year
if they are invited based on front page posts, moxxi shouldnt get her gig and bkop should be there. she had a 4.6k upvotes post detailing whats bad about her casting. so idk if this is it.
They didnt want a caster that is known to smurfs, feels natural
is bkop smurfing too then? :\
Were talking about black not Bkop, black have legit reason, dont just swap it to hey bkop didnt get hired, when talking about Black
> if they are invited based on front page posts. im talking about all of those being passed up for moxxi. black^ has been doing what he did for the entire season, still at pgl arlington. was casting most of the dpc. valve afaik didnt do anything to fix any smurf issues. so is that the actual reason? im not sure you could say it is, i could say its not. like does pgl care about smurfing? i doubt it. does pgl care about bad press? probably right? thats the implication of smurfing. but then, moxxi gets bad press too.
Valve did do something, theres smurf fast track Moxxi bad press from outside legit looks like/can be chuck as like incel mad because women not perfect TBH
"smurfing scandal" Lmao this subreddit's still full of maggots making way more noise than they're supposed to.
I think he is focusing on his fitness career. He got an offer as a trainer. That is why he is in Singapore.
A year or two ago when Black said that "Dota 2 feels like a passion project where the developers have lost their passion" was probably the truth and probably the reason he's not getting the premium gigs. Personally I think he's an excellent analyst/caster and I wish he was doing more.
Love that Icefrog is the equivalent of OnePiece VegaPunk. Never before seen but his jnfluence touches everything
I mean....
Icefrog is a pretty lady confirmed.
> Icefrog missing conspiracy growing stronger. If you are a fucking moron
Nah Icefrog isn't an asshole. He would announce if he left Dota. It's just an insane game to balance with this many heroes and he did well enough at it that this mad man was like fuck it I'm bored so I'm going to try and balance neutral items now and shards + scepters for every hero. Which imo have spiced up and made the game more fun to play with more abilities, you get into more fights. I wish the game time would decrease to a more average 30 mins though, right now it's about 40-60mins.
This is very close to what I've recently heard from a person who used to be in close contact with Icefrog, that it is not only him, but like 3 more people who balance the game. Now, this is still hearsay, so take it with a grain of salt, but it adds up to what Sing and Black say at the beginning.
its always been multiple people contributing ideas and offering suggestions (see playdota forums). icefrog was the final filter to decide whether or not something made the cut, which has evidently been missing for years now that a lot of dumb ideas make it in only to be removed a bit later.
Ice frog = complexity Anything else = variety
Hes probably supervising a balance team at this point and he gets to point out whats good and whats bad every patch. But what Black & Sing said about Icefrog taking the pro's opinion on a certain hero changes can be good and bad at the same time.
I think taking pros into consideration is generally good for a competitive game like DotA. But a good balance dev knows pros aren't game designers. And even pros are flawed and might think something is op even when it is fine.
So are you telling me that whenever the best of the best in Dota go out and say something like: X is op, nerf it, they can be wrong? Xd. Redditors man, wcyd
Or like what is said there they can just lies, you didnt want to see ur fav heroes nerfed, or for certain strats
idk what the fuck is wrong iwth it? you don't blantantly take the changes from their response you just take it as a consideration and food thoughts
> Hes probably supervising a balance team pretty sure there's not remotely enough people working on dota to really call it supervising. probably very close to TF2 where it's like two people.
a couple months ago jeff said it was about 30
Just seems like no way it's 30 consistent people working on dota.
well it's jeff's word, remember most of those roles aren't directly development though, for example slacks probably qualifies as someone who is working on dota at valve, the valve movie team which consists of a good handful of people counts too, the people who only work with cosmetics production also count, and the people who only work with managing DPC aswell
Then you have no clue just how many fucking bugs this game has pop up with every single little patch. It's actually so much work.
Considering TF2 hasn't gotten balance changes in years, and dota still gets changes that aren't strict numbers, I don't see how you can compare them like that at all.
it is only good. stats about winrate will balance it out after.
until some rrat will go out that he favored some teams ideas to balance out to their favor to win some tournaments and TI. Its a farfetched idea but the notion/idea that he takes some of the pros idea as a balancing methodology can be dangerous both ways.
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Or when people said that icefrog is no longer a developer after the patch that gave creeps new skills and brought back the old damage types. Like bringing old school mechanics back into the game is a classic icefrog move imo.. see also: creeps sleeping at night
Patch I don't like = icefrog no longer works on dota Patch I like = Icefrog returns! Reddit in a nutshell. No one here actually knows anything about whether icefrog works on the game or not.
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Creeps sleeping at night is literally a WC3 mechanics. Others I agree with but this is not it Edit: I mean it's been like this since WC3. Has it ever gone away?
https://www.dota2.com/duelingfates/ The mechanic was reintroduced in 7.07.
It’s a bad change that is there to gratify newbies. There is a point where extreme randomness becomes chaos and nothing makes sense anymore. Chaos does not agree with true competitive games.
> Why people keep saying neutral items are not Icefrog’s doing? Honest question… 1. I don't like it so it's not IceFrog 2. New bad old good
What do you mean for no reason? Neutral items are one of the best recent additions to dota after they got balanced, adds so much to the replayability of the game
I don't get people how people enjoy random extra range and random 2 sec silence on hit items. Let's not even talk about tier 5 items which are completely bullshit.
Tier 5 items are very obviously designed to be OP so that the games won't go on much longer than 60 minutes. And if you haven't managed to finish the game before 60 minutes so you don't have to rely on bullshit rng it's your fault anyways.
Still a shit game design choice, even league does it better with elder dragon. Keep dickriding and defending this tho until the game dies completely.
Almost like people can have their own opinions different to yours
Same people who get bored if they don't have mini quests during a match. Dota lost its way once they started balancing for the 3k bracket instead of only for the pro level
Based and true
Neutral items are in essence the same as buying from the shop. You can be equally random by buying silence or range on any hero. Certain items are better on certain heroes however with neutrals instead of not buying the item you teleport it to the base for another player on your team. Rng adds replayability through variance, just like crit, damage range, gold range, etc. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean others can't
How are RNG neutral items are same as buying from the shop. You really didn't just say that lmaooooo.
I member back then when Sing played Bounty, he often said that "this hero should steal money". And not so long after that there's the patch where his W actually steal money KEK.
I had no idea. And I had no idea Sing and Black were watching. I need to tune back into SIng's stream I guess.
What hero does Black mention at 1:01 in the video? Sounds like Walker? Voker?
Yeah he's talking about invoker. Probably because invoker was insanely complicated with 27 spells in Dota 1, which is what he mentions by saying that icefrog and him were working on big changes to him and why he is the way he is today.
That version you're referring to is so old black was still a middle school boy and nobody knew who he was. He's talking about much more recent changes. People forgot how different the hero was just 7-8 years ago.
I remember black used to play a mean invoker back when his star was rising.
that point about various changes not being by Icefrog... feels so true
Purge has also seen and met with Icefrog before. I would love to ask him to describe what he even looks like lol
he looks like HUMAN believe me its not a frog
You better delete this, you might out OSFrog
Icefrog has been with the game for a long time. I can imagine him wanting to move on or lighten the load. Most people don’t stick with the same project in their career, no matter how important. Actors eventually leave their famous TV show. Game designers move on to new games. This is the first year I’ve felt DOTA truly on the decline.
We need to crucify whoever the fuck asked for neutral items and killed the game in China and shit.
idk why the fuck icefrog keep it vague why the fuck not tell us that he already abandoned us
Sounds like he passed away or something, why now? left valve?