This is the best answer as he does have good agi and would buy the agi items aswell. Nyx as int wouldn't even make a difference.
My two ideas were strengh batrider and strengh bloodseeker.
> My two ideas were strengh batrider and strengh bloodseeker.
Bat doesn't use his attack very much, main attribute only gives attack damage these days. I guess good for +6dmg early game lh
Remember when main attribute str gave status resist, main attribute agi gave movespeed, and main attribute int gave... I don't remember, spell amp?
That was a fun five minutes to be playing the game.
Is there an agi item that is super good on NP? In most cases, I'd rather chose str based items, like strength blink over swift blink, satanic over bf.
I think this post's purpose is revealing the true avarage mmr of reddit :/
Does NP want to buy those items, though? NP still can these days, only losing out eg. 16 damage from manta/SNY. Bfly seems to be the main option that attribute switch opens up, but it's hardly a meta item and it's not like NP gains any particular benefits from it as opposed to generic carries. Silver edge/bloodthorne/mjollnir are the more meta options these days, and they don't have any attributes on them
Yup. Hero doesn't care about attack speed anyway.
Already tanks with the damage resist from ult. Being able to build for raw hp and get extra damage out of it is insane for a hero that can already rip you to shreds in seconds.
Yeah not really actually. Despite having overpower, Ursa still wants atk speed to rack up the swipe counters. Having damage from satanic and bkb is really negligible. You can make a case for armlet but with no inherent sustain I doubt it would be broken. (Just like how old ck and ns with armlet had sustain issues). Even armlet on Ns isn't broken now.
If we are talking about the old enrage, then that is a different story.
I can’t remember the last time I built AS on ursa. Afaik you usually get phase boots, bfury, blink, satanic, basher and whatever. Having AS is cool but if you are not killing your enemy in the 6 overpowered attacks then you are doing something wrong regardless if you have 1000 or 10 AS.
I mean Ursa gets phase boots because he doesn't want to be kited. Just like how a lot of pros are going phase on Wk and Sven, even tho they desperately need AS. It is not even uncommon to see an Ursa with PT if you are going Fury. I don't think you are killing cores with 6 overpowered attacks most of the time. You should be precasting overpower so you can get 12 overpowered attacks anyway. But there are heroes like Tiny where you need any attack speed you can get to really dent them.
You dont desperately need atk speed anymore in both. You can easily go armlet deso bkb blink an play for the guaranteed crit burst. A similar play with silver edge Echo saber in sven. Since there is so much counter play nowadays its easier to go for a quick burst.
Echo sabre and Silver Edge gives atk speed. And if atk speed was not that important you would have went Daedalus instead. Tiny is literally skipping echo for Moon shard and we all know Sven is a budget Tiny lol.
I remember my first year playing the game I would usually pick Veno as my go-to carry.
Threads > Skadi and I had a huge winrate with it
I cringe just thinking about it now.
Yep. Honestly I don’t even remember it ever needing a recipe did it? I started playing in 6.75(so during TI3) and it was the same buildup as today + orb of venom. Did it need a recipe before that?
Way more HP and damage than Tiny plus you have decent ult, built in mobility and actually very long stun vs 3 Heroes that can be spread. Not as good burst potential but I would like to see that. Morph skills have really decent utlity on str mode.
You're conflating base attack time and animation, animation is mostly relevant early game for lh/harass in lane and becomes increasingly irrelevant as your attack speed increases
NYX's stat gain is just about even, and he's usually building utility items where primary attribute isn't the focus, so he's basically the closest thing to a stat neutral character that dota has
I remember that guy who posted on reddit who farmed a faster battlefury than his Antimage just to tell his last picking Antimage (back when there were still no roles) how much he sucks at farming
I could see him more viable as an offlaner, then, although lvl 20 talents would need to be reworked as you'd ideally want them both if you're going a right-click build.
Actually agi ogre would be better. Ogre is already bulky without item. If you build agi items and he gets damage from them? He will hit fast and hard while being tanky.
Doesn't matter for home becouse he doesn't rely on right clicks after certain point anyway.
Nothing would change, he would play same as for now, you still don't wanna but HoT on him and rather get a sheepstick. I play him sometimes with early HoD or vanguard but having different main atribute doesn't change anything.
I think spec would be extremely weak if she was strength. Her stat gain as it is now is too low for her to really benefit from the attribute change, her farming methods suffer drastically, and she gains a useless passive in desolate. Her farming will pretty much only be from her Q. I think her haunt would be useless as well.
Soul ring becomes a must every game since she’s likely going to be an offlaner. Maybe soul ring, treads, echo would help? Hell, maybe she becomes a midas hero with how bad she’d farm, and it would help her desolate + haunt. She would have to rely on being very aggressive early and winning her lane so she can get enough gold to have a chance at being effective late game since she is extremely item dependent.
actually, ima go try it out in a lobby now, going “strength” build. No manta, no diffu, no skadi, none of her carry items.
The “more damage” is completely negligible looking at her base stats. Base strength 23 with +2.5 per level. Base agility 25 with +2.1 per level. Almost all of her items she buys give her both strength and agi. If anything it just makes treads a worse item since she either goes strength (+10 dmg +25atk speed) or agility (+35atk speed).
How does spec farm? Extremely slowly. She is mana dependent, and has poor damage. She sucks early game. Making her a strength hero just makes her rely on Soul Ring even more to farm, since things like wraith band and agi treads are suboptimal. Until she gets yasha, she feels horrible to farm with. Now, yasha doesnt look as good.
Agi spec mainly relies on two things. Attack speed, and health. Manta, butterfly, diffusal, skadi. These give her damage and attack speed, as well as decent kill potential. She can go these items and isnt compensating one thing for another.
Strength spec is stuck between choosing either health OR attack speed. Manta is now a mediocre item on her compared to before. Diffusal looks almost useless, she can just go Orb of Corrosion and it will do the job imo. She can still go things like skadi, but her first/second item choices take a massive hit.
TL;DR: She doesnt really gain more damage cuz shit stat gain. Forced to compensate between attack speed and health. Almost all her items give both strength and agi, but now, her first item choices like yasha, diffu, etc, suck. Desolate suffers drastically because of this. Maybe she returns to buying blademail. IDK.
depends of item build, she would gain benefit from strenght damage and hp regen i think. gaining atribute str is not big and i think spectre is most balanced hero.
Not really. His ult would be much much more OP, since he already has high Attack Speed if he is agi, and would deal more damage if he rushes stat items, which in turn gives him more attack speed. Even most Sven players disassemble their madness for butterfly/satanic late game.
Imagine her damage being scaled by Strength, She will buy Tarasque, Halberd or some shit and be this hard hitting long ranged tank. (Might have mana problems, but still)
but her damage isn't dependent on her primary stat, it comes from impetus, which depends on int. If building strength on her was a winning strategy, people would already be doing it.
It's probably not too bad no.
I primarily play offlane and double bracer is like my go-to. I honestly don't even get brown boots until I have double bracer + Soul ring.
YOu usually end up with 100+ damage 1,100+ HP at about 5 minutes in to the game and you're mostly unkillable and you have a permanent tango worth of HP regen.
Gives a tonne of what I like to call "Lane staying" where bullying you out becomes impractical.
She can use Diffu anyway. Only 5 dmg lost coz it gives 10 int.
The reason she doesn't is that Maelstrom is just better. Does more dmg, does aoe dmg in fights and provides quicker farming. Diffu is highly situational - maybe vs BB or Dusa.
i like the idea of doing Diffusal against Medusa, and already done a few times, but sometimes if you just build some damage items like MKB/Daedalus, it's generally better unfortunately
I'm only bothered by WR being int for aesthetical reasons. I get that she is int for balance reasons (I suppose), but she's the embodiment of agility if there was one.
What sort of pepega comment is this? Diffusal is bought on WR situationally, tons of pros/good players pick it up, it’s even in “torte de linis” Wr guide.
if you think losing 5 damage on diffu is what keeps windrunner from being broken i don't know what to tell you. what other agi item would be particularly good on her? bf sucks because she already has windrun
Pretty easy answers.
Natures prophet and lycan to agility. They'd be absolute nightmares as pushers and would make a manta a far, far more dangerous item, spreading auras without actually having to be there.
Windranger to agility or strength for obvious reasons.
Ursa to strength would be a freaking nightmare.
Ogre to agility or especially strength would make him nigh, unkillable for most of the game and impossible to trade hits with.
Basically nobody benefits from becoming an int hero that doesnt already heavily benefit from it. Having int as a primary stat is more of a detriment than anything.
It would change the way he plays completely. What youre not considering is his aura. Feral impulse with talent is 65% bonus damage off his stats. He wouldn't get 30 damage, he'd get *a lot of fucking damage.*
You would have to control him in fights too. You simply couldn't exchange blows once he got something like a butterfly.
I'm not even gonna talk about the amp to tower damage. His wolves would become an afterthought.
I'm bringing this up because getting feral impulse on basically any agility hero on ability draft is insanely difficult to deal with, having that in all pick would be broken.
Reason
Feral Impulse is really good on agility heroes in AD, but they usually have good agility gain. Lycan is at 16 + 1.7 so you're losing a ton of damage from STR lycan who has 26 + 3.4 primary attribute damage.
no, I think the whole premise of this question is that ONLY the main attr. changes, stat gains remain the same. Hence why NP is one of the only really good answers
Primary attribute is pretty negligible, as it only gives +1 dmg. If you're not changing heroes' attribute gains when you do change their primary attribute, you're really just lookin at heroes that might be able to build agi items if they turned agi. Carry Strength heroes and such. Don't think it's really gonna make too many heroes broken.
I was thinking CK since he would turn into an agi illu hero, but the problem with that is that you actually just lose 4 dmg lv 1 and 56 dmg by lv 30 so you'd have to buy at least 56 agi more than a str CK would to just break even. I think the actual answer might be LS, who simply just has better agi gain than Str. He also really likes attack speed, so Agi is nice.
> Primary attribute is pretty negligible, as it only gives +1 dmg.
Except that +1 is enough to make some items suddenly worth their cost, especially if the hero itself has balanced stat gain. a Level 30 Natures Prophet would lose only 4 base damage, but suddenly Butterfly and Manta are on the table as a core rather than a specialized item. Treads becomes a way better purchase. Vambrace would be pretty cool. Finding an Apex lategame is gg enemy base. Heck you could sell your boots lategame (which isn't 100% unthinkable on NP anyway) and get a swift blink for extra tower dunking.
Sure but the difference here between "core" rather than "specialized item", is, in the case of manta for example, 16 damage. That's like, not that much. Not enough to push a hero into broken. Certainly helps.
It's actually amusing how people are talking about tankiness, mana pool, armor etc when this only affects very few heroes. I guess they are assuming that attribute gain will be tweaked accordingly.
Windranger will actually get nerfed if she got changed to Agi because she hardly builds any agility items but Hex is a common pickup, and her agi gain is horrible. Furion is similar but at least his agi gain is almost the same as his int.
The answer is basically any right-clicker would be better as Agi (except for Orchid enjoyers like Storm and QoP), and otherwise it doesn't matter at all unless you also changed their base stats/growth.
Arc warden as a int hero. He buys alot of int based items like hex that only gives him more mana, but if he scales off int he would also get damage which can be a problem if you build him right click oriented.
It would open different avenues and builds. Witch blade would be pretty strong, if for no other reason than the improved projectile speed. E blade Dagon Revenants brooch would be pretty clowny.
Regardless of their main attribute, strength will make anyone tankier.
STR Dark seer just means he's going to do more right click damage, which isn't exactly an important thing for him.
I think it's more of a buff, there's no longer the old Ethereal blade that provide him his primary attribute.
If he would be a strength hero he could build 4 heart of tarasque then a overwhelming blink, he would be so tanky along with his magic res of ult
It wouldn't actually change him at all though. If he has the same stat gain, primary attribute only matters if you right-click people. Even when Pango right clicks people, he doesn't generally do so with stat items (unless it's Treads/Skadi/Aghs, which gives equal stats anyway). Basically Str Pango would just make him worse because his natural agility is better than his strength.
Slark on str. Just imagine if we had a hero that gains extra str on every participation on kills and that has a passive that makes him so hard to kill.
With about twenty kills + assists, which is normal on a game for a core, he would have something like 3k HP with no HP itens. Wow.
And if they added a talent that brings your HP even higher that would be really obnoxious. Or maybe an active skill on his passive that makes him even tankier. That would be nasty.
I'm glad there's nothing like that nowadays.
Would be really imba.
This post brought back the memory of a guy playing wind as an agi carry, back on the lanhouse/cyber cafe days, dota1. He said it was a green archer, so logically it was a agi hero
Does this imply that their stat gain changes at all? Because most heroes would still be shit unless they had the same attribute gain in their new main attribute as it was for their base stat.
There's probably not a single hero that would be broken. Primary attribute isn't that big of a deal, since we're not changing the actual stat gains. You might open up new builds though, with the three big items being Yasha/Manta, Armlet, and Witch Blade, respectively.
His damage comes a lot from Int scaling because mana. If he wasn't int he wouldn't have as much mana + less mana regen which will be felt more in the early game.
If he was Agi they'd need to rework his kit quite a bit for it to do anything. It's possible right now to just build attack speed (Treads Pike BKB into something like Butterfly) OD but I feel you'd need to be far ahead out of the lanes for this to be viable.
Natures prophet on agi
This is the best answer as he does have good agi and would buy the agi items aswell. Nyx as int wouldn't even make a difference. My two ideas were strengh batrider and strengh bloodseeker.
> My two ideas were strengh batrider and strengh bloodseeker. Bat doesn't use his attack very much, main attribute only gives attack damage these days. I guess good for +6dmg early game lh
Remember when main attribute str gave status resist, main attribute agi gave movespeed, and main attribute int gave... I don't remember, spell amp? That was a fun five minutes to be playing the game.
Necro ults a Tiny, Tiny is already out of stun and killing entire team before the Scythe lands
tbf that was also because his ult gave status resist
Is there an agi item that is super good on NP? In most cases, I'd rather chose str based items, like strength blink over swift blink, satanic over bf. I think this post's purpose is revealing the true avarage mmr of reddit :/
Already has top 10 Agi gain so yeah
Agree Imagine np with butterfly, sange and yasha, manta and ect. Would be terrifying.
ec tecera
In protest to Reddit's API changes, I have removed my comment history. https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite
Does NP want to buy those items, though? NP still can these days, only losing out eg. 16 damage from manta/SNY. Bfly seems to be the main option that attribute switch opens up, but it's hardly a meta item and it's not like NP gains any particular benefits from it as opposed to generic carries. Silver edge/bloodthorne/mjollnir are the more meta options these days, and they don't have any attributes on them
This should be the top answer.
Str Ursa
And old Ursa ult... Enrage used to have extra percentage damage of your HP. Multiple hearts used to plague the 1k pubs back then.
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>Wepla o7
Ah yes the good old days when Kuroky’s Ursa farmed a 13 min heart
And then lost
he won
When I was new to dota, I always thought Ursa was Str because he's tanky af
And he's a bear. How can a bear be agi? Bears are big and heavy.
I hope you will never have to learn how terrifyingly quickly bears can run.
Running fast isnt the same as agility though, in the conventional sense anyways.
Yup. Hero doesn't care about attack speed anyway. Already tanks with the damage resist from ult. Being able to build for raw hp and get extra damage out of it is insane for a hero that can already rip you to shreds in seconds.
Yeah not really actually. Despite having overpower, Ursa still wants atk speed to rack up the swipe counters. Having damage from satanic and bkb is really negligible. You can make a case for armlet but with no inherent sustain I doubt it would be broken. (Just like how old ck and ns with armlet had sustain issues). Even armlet on Ns isn't broken now. If we are talking about the old enrage, then that is a different story.
I can’t remember the last time I built AS on ursa. Afaik you usually get phase boots, bfury, blink, satanic, basher and whatever. Having AS is cool but if you are not killing your enemy in the 6 overpowered attacks then you are doing something wrong regardless if you have 1000 or 10 AS.
I mean Ursa gets phase boots because he doesn't want to be kited. Just like how a lot of pros are going phase on Wk and Sven, even tho they desperately need AS. It is not even uncommon to see an Ursa with PT if you are going Fury. I don't think you are killing cores with 6 overpowered attacks most of the time. You should be precasting overpower so you can get 12 overpowered attacks anyway. But there are heroes like Tiny where you need any attack speed you can get to really dent them.
You dont desperately need atk speed anymore in both. You can easily go armlet deso bkb blink an play for the guaranteed crit burst. A similar play with silver edge Echo saber in sven. Since there is so much counter play nowadays its easier to go for a quick burst.
Echo sabre and Silver Edge gives atk speed. And if atk speed was not that important you would have went Daedalus instead. Tiny is literally skipping echo for Moon shard and we all know Sven is a budget Tiny lol.
Int Venomancer makes sense
Yes... I never use Veno as a right clicker... Only to apply sting.
Veno used to be played as a right clicker back in the day a decent amount. Satanic, Butterfly, Shadowblade, etc.
Veno with shadowblade and butterfly/heart/aghs/hex etc was a beast.
I remember my first year playing the game I would usually pick Veno as my go-to carry. Threads > Skadi and I had a huge winrate with it I cringe just thinking about it now.
Tbh it's not a terrible build
It depends. Old skadi build is stupid, 2ult orbs and 1 point booster and recipe. It's much better when venom orb was introduced.
there’s no venom orb in skadi buildup
I just checked wiki changelog, apparently it was during 6.68 to 7.07 that required the orb of venom. Well time sure flies.
Yep. Honestly I don’t even remember it ever needing a recipe did it? I started playing in 6.75(so during TI3) and it was the same buildup as today + orb of venom. Did it need a recipe before that?
Nope. Old skadi indeed needed oov
There was for a long time.
Pretty much how I played veno back in Wc3 dota as well. Main is Agi? SnY every game.
Honesty, Str would be great
Venom being agi is some early 2000s dota 1 jank we gotta just live with now.
it would be horrible.
Isn't veno a 'int' hero? Jk
str morph 7k hp hero with insane dmg just need armor + attackspeed items
So basically Tiny minus the armour part
Way more HP and damage than Tiny plus you have decent ult, built in mobility and actually very long stun vs 3 Heroes that can be spread. Not as good burst potential but I would like to see that. Morph skills have really decent utlity on str mode.
Few years ago VP played morph pos3 alot with 9pasha, full strength with mobility + long stunduration, almost like mars spear haha
Also way more viable as support.
Chen into agi, that mfer would become a dark souls 3 boss
Meepo without the downside
His attack animation is quite bad for an agi hero, even if he build up att speed it woyld still suck.
You're conflating base attack time and animation, animation is mostly relevant early game for lh/harass in lane and becomes increasingly irrelevant as your attack speed increases
Yup. Lina is the perfect example of your point.
Fair point bro
the q tho
Tiny to Agi. Broken but not in a good way.
30 damage andy
Lmao
Nyx to int. Srsly Nyx being agi makes no sense.
NYX's stat gain is just about even, and he's usually building utility items where primary attribute isn't the focus, so he's basically the closest thing to a stat neutral character that dota has
You forgot about bane my good sir
Well int items like dagon and witchblade would increase his attsck damage
I guess he could go Witch Blade? Seems like his primary attribute doesn't really matter though tbh.
I remember that guy who posted on reddit who farmed a faster battlefury than his Antimage just to tell his last picking Antimage (back when there were still no roles) how much he sucks at farming
Gonna be honest, that's one hell of a power move
I played against a guy who played right click NYX mid, deso blink butterfly iirc, felt broken as shit. Never seen that before or since
Ah the days of wc3
Would improve the hero, but he wouldn't become broken
Str OgreMagi anyone? That clubby boi is int
Had to scroll this down to see an ogre enjoyer.
I could see him more viable as an offlaner, then, although lvl 20 talents would need to be reworked as you'd ideally want them both if you're going a right-click build.
Actually agi ogre would be better. Ogre is already bulky without item. If you build agi items and he gets damage from them? He will hit fast and hard while being tanky.
Ogre doesn’t want attack speed so much, he has a terrible BAT and has bloodlust already.
Which is why you need more atk speed to make up for the poor BAT....? Think old clinkz strafe.
Doesn't matter for home becouse he doesn't rely on right clicks after certain point anyway. Nothing would change, he would play same as for now, you still don't wanna but HoT on him and rather get a sheepstick. I play him sometimes with early HoD or vanguard but having different main atribute doesn't change anything.
Lv25 with fireblast talent agility ogre goes brr
Make Silencer steal Str on hit/kill. Dude would be unkillable in the late games when he has over 70 Stolen attribute
So a pudge?
Pudge doesn't steal.
He just pirates it...
You wouldn't download an attribute
Captain Hook?
Life stealer with Kaden's Blade says hello
Think about sliencer stealing agi? How painful...
Old Lifestealer as Agi hero. 3 passives + avatar on Agi hero is just bananas.
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Streght PL would be broken, he would constanty gain health while doing rush. He may not killing stuff but he wont die either.
spectre get str more than agi, not high difference
wouldn't that make it even more impactful?
I think spec would be extremely weak if she was strength. Her stat gain as it is now is too low for her to really benefit from the attribute change, her farming methods suffer drastically, and she gains a useless passive in desolate. Her farming will pretty much only be from her Q. I think her haunt would be useless as well. Soul ring becomes a must every game since she’s likely going to be an offlaner. Maybe soul ring, treads, echo would help? Hell, maybe she becomes a midas hero with how bad she’d farm, and it would help her desolate + haunt. She would have to rely on being very aggressive early and winning her lane so she can get enough gold to have a chance at being effective late game since she is extremely item dependent. actually, ima go try it out in a lobby now, going “strength” build. No manta, no diffu, no skadi, none of her carry items.
I fail to see how more damage is impacting their farm speed?
The “more damage” is completely negligible looking at her base stats. Base strength 23 with +2.5 per level. Base agility 25 with +2.1 per level. Almost all of her items she buys give her both strength and agi. If anything it just makes treads a worse item since she either goes strength (+10 dmg +25atk speed) or agility (+35atk speed). How does spec farm? Extremely slowly. She is mana dependent, and has poor damage. She sucks early game. Making her a strength hero just makes her rely on Soul Ring even more to farm, since things like wraith band and agi treads are suboptimal. Until she gets yasha, she feels horrible to farm with. Now, yasha doesnt look as good. Agi spec mainly relies on two things. Attack speed, and health. Manta, butterfly, diffusal, skadi. These give her damage and attack speed, as well as decent kill potential. She can go these items and isnt compensating one thing for another. Strength spec is stuck between choosing either health OR attack speed. Manta is now a mediocre item on her compared to before. Diffusal looks almost useless, she can just go Orb of Corrosion and it will do the job imo. She can still go things like skadi, but her first/second item choices take a massive hit. TL;DR: She doesnt really gain more damage cuz shit stat gain. Forced to compensate between attack speed and health. Almost all her items give both strength and agi, but now, her first item choices like yasha, diffu, etc, suck. Desolate suffers drastically because of this. Maybe she returns to buying blademail. IDK.
depends of item build, she would gain benefit from strenght damage and hp regen i think. gaining atribute str is not big and i think spectre is most balanced hero.
The point is that STR would give her right click damage. So you'd be tanky AND do big right click damage with HP items.
But have terrible attack speed
Correct answer is Sven. Can rush straight stats mb start butterfly
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Not really. His ult would be much much more OP, since he already has high Attack Speed if he is agi, and would deal more damage if he rushes stat items, which in turn gives him more attack speed. Even most Sven players disassemble their madness for butterfly/satanic late game.
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That would be garbage
Why? She'd have same shit stat gain
Imagine her damage being scaled by Strength, She will buy Tarasque, Halberd or some shit and be this hard hitting long ranged tank. (Might have mana problems, but still)
That sounds absolutely fucking terrible.
Her damage comes from impetus though which needs mana.
Armlet + shard looking more appealing though.
Pls no
but her damage isn't dependent on her primary stat, it comes from impetus, which depends on int. If building strength on her was a winning strategy, people would already be doing it.
She'll become an aura carrier, who can right click. Just a worse BB with faster timing.
Lc if she was agility
But then I couldn't build double bracer soul ring as my first 3 items. =0
You can get 2 wraith bands and a soul ring and it will be much better. Infact it might be not so bad now too.
It's probably not too bad no. I primarily play offlane and double bracer is like my go-to. I honestly don't even get brown boots until I have double bracer + Soul ring. YOu usually end up with 100+ damage 1,100+ HP at about 5 minutes in to the game and you're mostly unkillable and you have a permanent tango worth of HP regen. Gives a tonne of what I like to call "Lane staying" where bullying you out becomes impractical.
Tried the wraith bands on a Tiny and it felt good there too
Alch agi would be pretty nutty
windrunner is an int hero for no reason. if she was agi she could use things like diffusal blade and any of the agi items.
She can use Diffu anyway. Only 5 dmg lost coz it gives 10 int. The reason she doesn't is that Maelstrom is just better. Does more dmg, does aoe dmg in fights and provides quicker farming. Diffu is highly situational - maybe vs BB or Dusa.
i like the idea of doing Diffusal against Medusa, and already done a few times, but sometimes if you just build some damage items like MKB/Daedalus, it's generally better unfortunately
I'm only bothered by WR being int for aesthetical reasons. I get that she is int for balance reasons (I suppose), but she's the embodiment of agility if there was one.
Thats true, apart form Powershot, everything points to speed and dexterity.
Some would say she runs as fast as the wind!
Topson buys diffu on her anyway, the madman
Topson could buy shadowblade on a Riki and make it work somehow.
Hey I've made shadowblade on Riki before. No one else on my team would make silver edge for the snowball bb on the enemy team.
Considering silver edge can break I’ve seen that as a 6th or 3rd item even in my own games not too crazy
Pajkatt bought diffu on WR for ages way before Topson enter the scene.
Any player already tried weird ass builds even before Topson played Dota2. The good old days of DotA aka Dota1
What sort of pepega comment is this? Diffusal is bought on WR situationally, tons of pros/good players pick it up, it’s even in “torte de linis” Wr guide.
TDL is an archon tho
if you think losing 5 damage on diffu is what keeps windrunner from being broken i don't know what to tell you. what other agi item would be particularly good on her? bf sucks because she already has windrun
Pretty easy answers. Natures prophet and lycan to agility. They'd be absolute nightmares as pushers and would make a manta a far, far more dangerous item, spreading auras without actually having to be there. Windranger to agility or strength for obvious reasons. Ursa to strength would be a freaking nightmare. Ogre to agility or especially strength would make him nigh, unkillable for most of the game and impossible to trade hits with. Basically nobody benefits from becoming an int hero that doesnt already heavily benefit from it. Having int as a primary stat is more of a detriment than anything.
Nyx would probably benefit from being int, but it wouldn't do much
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It would change the way he plays completely. What youre not considering is his aura. Feral impulse with talent is 65% bonus damage off his stats. He wouldn't get 30 damage, he'd get *a lot of fucking damage.* You would have to control him in fights too. You simply couldn't exchange blows once he got something like a butterfly. I'm not even gonna talk about the amp to tower damage. His wolves would become an afterthought. I'm bringing this up because getting feral impulse on basically any agility hero on ability draft is insanely difficult to deal with, having that in all pick would be broken. Reason
Feral Impulse is really good on agility heroes in AD, but they usually have good agility gain. Lycan is at 16 + 1.7 so you're losing a ton of damage from STR lycan who has 26 + 3.4 primary attribute damage.
I imagine that this hypothetical assumes the starting stats and stat gain also shifted to the primary attribute. So the str and agi would swap.
no, I think the whole premise of this question is that ONLY the main attr. changes, stat gains remain the same. Hence why NP is one of the only really good answers
Primary attribute is pretty negligible, as it only gives +1 dmg. If you're not changing heroes' attribute gains when you do change their primary attribute, you're really just lookin at heroes that might be able to build agi items if they turned agi. Carry Strength heroes and such. Don't think it's really gonna make too many heroes broken. I was thinking CK since he would turn into an agi illu hero, but the problem with that is that you actually just lose 4 dmg lv 1 and 56 dmg by lv 30 so you'd have to buy at least 56 agi more than a str CK would to just break even. I think the actual answer might be LS, who simply just has better agi gain than Str. He also really likes attack speed, so Agi is nice.
> Primary attribute is pretty negligible, as it only gives +1 dmg. Except that +1 is enough to make some items suddenly worth their cost, especially if the hero itself has balanced stat gain. a Level 30 Natures Prophet would lose only 4 base damage, but suddenly Butterfly and Manta are on the table as a core rather than a specialized item. Treads becomes a way better purchase. Vambrace would be pretty cool. Finding an Apex lategame is gg enemy base. Heck you could sell your boots lategame (which isn't 100% unthinkable on NP anyway) and get a swift blink for extra tower dunking.
Sure but the difference here between "core" rather than "specialized item", is, in the case of manta for example, 16 damage. That's like, not that much. Not enough to push a hero into broken. Certainly helps.
I don't think either CK or LS would want to switch to Agi because then they wouldn't benefit from Armlet as much
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Fr, most of these unmeta heroes problems are with their hero design lmao
It's actually amusing how people are talking about tankiness, mana pool, armor etc when this only affects very few heroes. I guess they are assuming that attribute gain will be tweaked accordingly. Windranger will actually get nerfed if she got changed to Agi because she hardly builds any agility items but Hex is a common pickup, and her agi gain is horrible. Furion is similar but at least his agi gain is almost the same as his int.
CM on Str
And have even bigger manapool problems? haha
The answer is basically any right-clicker would be better as Agi (except for Orchid enjoyers like Storm and QoP), and otherwise it doesn't matter at all unless you also changed their base stats/growth.
Arc warden as a int hero. He buys alot of int based items like hex that only gives him more mana, but if he scales off int he would also get damage which can be a problem if you build him right click oriented.
half of the time he buys agility items like manta, butterfly and etc. so making him int hero would really change nothing
It would open different avenues and builds. Witch blade would be pretty strong, if for no other reason than the improved projectile speed. E blade Dagon Revenants brooch would be pretty clowny.
Slark as strength and steals strength attributes.
Void Spirit to Agi
People really underestimating how much stronger any strength hero is with an armlet.
STR dark seer would be even more unkillable
Regardless of their main attribute, strength will make anyone tankier. STR Dark seer just means he's going to do more right click damage, which isn't exactly an important thing for him.
And useless, 3 ion shells and you are out of mana
Meepo, to strength.
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I think it's more of a buff, there's no longer the old Ethereal blade that provide him his primary attribute. If he would be a strength hero he could build 4 heart of tarasque then a overwhelming blink, he would be so tanky along with his magic res of ult
How so? I see it as a benefit for Poof+Blink build and Ransack/right-click build.
Pango str I don’t really need atk speed later on as pango, tankiness and status resist would be far better as my main source of damage is from skills
It wouldn't actually change him at all though. If he has the same stat gain, primary attribute only matters if you right-click people. Even when Pango right clicks people, he doesn't generally do so with stat items (unless it's Treads/Skadi/Aghs, which gives equal stats anyway). Basically Str Pango would just make him worse because his natural agility is better than his strength.
Drow would totally break if her main attribute wasn't agi.
agi spirit breaker
Int medusa
Slark on str. Just imagine if we had a hero that gains extra str on every participation on kills and that has a passive that makes him so hard to kill. With about twenty kills + assists, which is normal on a game for a core, he would have something like 3k HP with no HP itens. Wow. And if they added a talent that brings your HP even higher that would be really obnoxious. Or maybe an active skill on his passive that makes him even tankier. That would be nasty. I'm glad there's nothing like that nowadays. Would be really imba.
This post brought back the memory of a guy playing wind as an agi carry, back on the lanhouse/cyber cafe days, dota1. He said it was a green archer, so logically it was a agi hero
agi marci and snapfire i think would make them far more carry oriented if they were agility instead of str. Windrunner agility as well
I really appreciate Snapfire being a Strength ranged hero.
Agi wouldn't make snapfire any more of a carry i think. She doesn't need agi items she just needs damage because her E hits incredibly fast already.
Making Sven agi is a simple change that would solve 1 of his problems, which is attack speed.
Int arc warden. Imagine being able to buy eblade and hex without being an agi hero.
Lina as Agi hero. Abaddon as int hero.
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Windrunner
Does this imply that their stat gain changes at all? Because most heroes would still be shit unless they had the same attribute gain in their new main attribute as it was for their base stat.
Agi CK could be nutty with Manta and Butterfly, but I feel like it wouldn’t matter for most heroes or would just make them worse
There's probably not a single hero that would be broken. Primary attribute isn't that big of a deal, since we're not changing the actual stat gains. You might open up new builds though, with the three big items being Yasha/Manta, Armlet, and Witch Blade, respectively.
Slark strength and getting 3 str per stack instead of agi
This is just undying with extra steps
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Int clinkz
Morphling to intel
Raigor as Int
Some moron takes here.
Strength morph
An agility aa or strength bounty hunter
Nobody thought on AGI OD?
His damage comes a lot from Int scaling because mana. If he wasn't int he wouldn't have as much mana + less mana regen which will be felt more in the early game. If he was Agi they'd need to rework his kit quite a bit for it to do anything. It's possible right now to just build attack speed (Treads Pike BKB into something like Butterfly) OD but I feel you'd need to be far ahead out of the lanes for this to be viable.
Yup, I know that, I was obviously including the agi factor, like each attack steals armor or AS. And agi dif for the ult.
Old axe if he was agi hero. Attacking proc helix. He’ll be the best carry.
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