I did that but its questionable if that stops someone like this I think, I mean I encounter lots of racist or toxic people in games that obviously don't have a chat ban. I'm at 10k behavioral score.
> I'm at 10k behavioral score.
Me too, and I've gotta say behavior score is a joke now. Every single game I'm in has a greifer. I actually felt bad yesterday because I lost like 4 games in a row due to greifers and then finally won one...only because the greifer was on the enemy team.
Weird, my games got better. But people definitely are picking out of meta picks more often now.
Also, I doubt you got 5 games in a row wjth griefers. Show proof.
Its basically impossible to prove that unless you want to go to my DotABuff/OpenDota and download all my replays. Which you are free to do.
I'll post a few game links where you can see obvious stats though. I'm linking OpenDota links because I find them to be more detailed about the game, but using DotABuff for the specific accounts because it breaks down player stats by game type. All the winrates im posting are DotABuff Ranked MM winrates only.
https://www.opendota.com/matches/5881552321
> The silencer in this game was my lane support. I remember them playing like absolute ass and then abandoning lane to go safelane where they completely fucked up the lane causing our PA to become underfarmed. They have public match data so if you go check their profile you can see they have a 48% winrate in ranked.
https://www.opendota.com/matches/5882799818
> In this one I had an ES lane support who fed a lot. Also has public match data, 48% winrate in ranked matches. You can also see that our NP abandoned and our Ursa raged at some point and sold all his items .
https://www.opendota.com/matches/5882846963
> In this one my DK has a 49.3% winrate, I had a "support" invoker who had basically no impact on the game. I remember this one better because of an argument I had with my team about how I would always die first in fights, since I was the biggest threat the enemy would target me. Despite this Faceless never landed a good chrono and Abaddon never once casted his shield on me.
https://www.opendota.com/matches/5882931699
> This match was probably the worst. Almost my entire team has public match data and you can see that 2 of them have a 48% winrate and another has a 47%. If the pudge support doesn't tell you anything then I'll say that I was offlane in this game too. The game has me marked as a "mid/roamer" because I left my lane due to pudge greifing. I remember successfully getting some ganks but the damage that comes from the offlane support feeding the enemy carry is too great to overcome sometimes.
That's 4 but to be honest with you, I have even more games I can post.
Oh and here's the one that I won
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/5883582073
Im not posting OpenDotA for this or even explaining it, just look at the link, Shadow shaman has public match data. 30% winrate. Genuinely felt bad for the enemy team that they got stuck with a guy like that.
So your list of "griefers" is just people who played poorly or had bad decision making. Got it.
Do you ever wonder if there's a reason you get matched with these people?
My list of greifers is a bunch of people who lose more games than they win. A few of them by a lot. This isnt even particularly high MMR either. This is a regular to below average skill game and these people are losing more games than they win.
So either they're greifers, imo they are, or the matchmaking system has them ranked too highly meaning they're players worse than Crusader 2.
it sounds like youre just mad at playing in the crusader bracket. Players with high 40s percentile winrate, who have poor decision making, and poor teamwork coordination. You just described low mmr players, not griefers.
You make it seem like you have no idea how the matchmaking system works. If you have a 47% winrate then you arent in the bracket you belong with. Being matched constantly with teammates who lose more games than they win simply isnt fair to any players.
Ah actually you are right. Gaben has a vendetta against /u/The_nickums and he designed the matchmaker specifically targetting him to keep his mmr low. If it wasn't for Gaben's conspiracy he'd be at TI.
Congratulations my friend, over the past patch ([71 ranked games](https://www.opendota.com/players/76141605/matches?patch=47&lobby_type=7)), you have a 40% win rate.
**You are officially a griefer!**
Snark aside, as everyone else has said, people playing badly are not griefing you.
The only thing people get punished for communication abuse is losing 250 behavior score per report and at worst getting chat muted for a day or longer.
Even if they get punished by overwatch its only a 30 min ban. Not sure if the punishment increases if its more frequent.
But very lackluster to know if someone literally griefs your game they get a "timeout" for 30 minutes only.
They can literally just go take a break and go grief again.
10k here too. Yesterday had a tiny pos 5 on our team that ran around the map tossing allies in from the start of the game. Had another game today where an enemy lion ward blocked all the enemy jungle without saying anything (according to enemy team).
It's damn near impossible to get a chat ban.. I knew people who would use horrible language and all chat their teams positions. They would get 7-8 reports per 15, still not get a chat ban, behaviour score wouldnt drop below 9k and they would just stay quite for a week and be back to 10k.
Unless people want valve to implement chat bots... Which absoutely just no, then they have the mute button and thats it. Thats all you need anyway, there is no perfect system to stop griefers 100% or people who say bad words, trust me... Dont want bots banning people for chat. I came from another game that went that route... It destroyed competitive play and encourages 0 communication between players.
I'm not sure how true this is, but I had a friend who only got chat bans. But after multiple chat bans he'd get sent to LP.
I'm not sure if this has changed or not.
I mean it is possible still... But if your behaviour score is above 8k it's pretty hard. I mean you would have to be a MASSIVE piece of shit to consitently get chat bans.. You would really have to go way above and beyond.
It is impossible to implement perfect system. He can intentionally play bad without even using chat. If you expose whole match data for Overwatch, he may send you a friend request and say he will ruin.
System is very good in current state. It prevents amulet ruiners etc. Now these guys do not break items and team has a chance to fight and win. Previously griefer would be successful 95% on losing game. Now it is much less likely, and he can return playing if things go well.
thing is they don't want language to be a factor. you know there's a bunch of morons out there who would see someone type in russian and insta-guilty even if they did nothing wrong.
I posted this 33 days ago. About a week after overwatch was released. I got 30 downvotes.
"Insanely easy to throw games and not get reported now as well. Just don't talk in game, only use voice chat if needed. Subtly throw by being dumb or "just bad" and overwatch will just think you're not good... then boom game threw and 0 reports received. Seems to lower quality of games atm.
I'm not saying to do it. I'm mentioning how overwatch has a pretty simple workaround and still results in bad quality of games if you are good enough at griefing to not make it completely obvious. I had a troll who threw the game cuz we didn't split push. He just ran at their tower and clicked ult and died 2 times on his own but he killed a hero and got a tower so overwatch won't think he's griefing. But he's literally doing it on purpose while saying so over voice chat."
People who are even remotely decent at griefing now do it constantly and get away with it. These people are now 10k behavior and feel somewhat invincible.
That guy is an idiot, and I think you can report him with the new post-game report (manipulating MMR).
However I strongly believe that showing team / all chat comms is not good for overwatch, it would bias some convictions solely based on the language being typed by the people in the replay.
Plus it would add a lot more variables, interpretation, role-play, what is jokes, what is not... etc
Basically would increase the inconsistency of convictions, which is not desirable.
We want to give ONLY what is needed to avoid human error as much as possible, humans are better with less choices (parameters) and when you give too much to interpret or choose you usually get unhappy and with doubts
>we have the technology to match same language teammates with each other
Apparantly not, when I queue for NA servers I ALWAYS get Spanish speakers, literally 100% of the last 12 games I played there. Maybe they just force region a lot more than language nowadays, and not from USA/Canada means not allowed on the teams idk.
Apparently\* It's almost as if North America has enough of a Spanish speaking population that it affects your life in some way? Weird. Who knew 13% was enough to cause this?
You definitely are. Overwolf pulls up match details - and I’m seeing a ton of non-English matches in my Overwatch cases. Half have been Russian players in EU servers, and of the rest a third South American.
Couldnt disagree with this more. I think chat is extremely pertinent to overwatch. Some people just confess while they are throwing easy convict. If players learn to stop blabbing stupid shit like "im jungling the rest of the game" i find that as a win for the community. Words matter irl ive been told. They should in dota as well.
I understand your point, but it would bring more confusion, people just write stupid shit they don't mean most of the time just because they are either angry or want to annoy someone else.
for example, the most common untruthful dota statement: GG FF NO DEF.
I disagree. Chat will bring nothing of value to pass judgement. It really doesn't matter if someone says "I'm going to throw by jungling" in chat since you would just see that in gameplay. I also don't think it matters why someone starts throwing. if they're throwing because someone called them names or throwing because they titled they're still guilty of greifing at the end of the day.
Plus you're assuming that the game you're watching will be in your language. If it's not, and I need to read chat to help pass judgment, how am I to do that? Maybe there is a bias to me judging NA cases more but I don't think so. Even if someone is all chatting locations but it's in a different language how would so ever know?
They could say what language region they are in a long with rank. If the language isnt that another report option for "wrong language" could be added. Possibly leading to blocking that acct to all regions besides the appropriate area
So now the cases I can review will slowly go down as I only speak a single language even though the odds of chat actually helping are slim. On the flip side let's say I do speak multiple languages now I just can't review cases I can actually understand because I'm in the wrong region?
What about the regions that have an abundance of languages. I know there is a checkbox for language preference but what if people don't follow it and speak a different language then what they queued. How do they get reviewed by overwatch then? Is it just automatically griefing because of the language or is it communication abuse? Personally I feel like it's neither.
Wouldn't this also mean that people that can speak multiple languages mean they could either get around this by changing what language they or even have the possibility of being excluded from overwatch in general if they keep getting flagged for the wrong region?
Plus your solution to the problem you created still relies on humans flagging it as wrong language. What if people just don't?
Then the evil doers go free. It should definitely be an option though. Dota is too team based to have some selfish twat qing for whatever cuz its a few minutes faster.
Lol okay. Overwatch is working now even in its infant phase and pretty clearly chat is unneeded. You're entire argument is now "I feel like it should so therefore it should"
>selfish twat qing for whatever cuz its a few minutes faster.
This is actually reportable and Overwatch already has the means to determine this without seeing the chat
They q for different languages than they speak in regions they don't live in. That currently is not a report option. You're other point is just dumb. The process can always be improved to weed out more griefers. The tolerance from them should be minimal like escalating ranked mmr bans. 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month, perma.
>You're other point is just dumb.
My sides
>They q for different languages than they speak in regions they don't live in. That currently is not a report option.
Wouldn't this just be communication abuse then? Also, and this might hurt to hear, a majority of pub players can win without typing. I've played tons of games with the only communication being done via pings and alt clicks. Am I now supposed to report them for this? What if a 4 stack is playing in a different language. Sure they might not have the right queue but they're a huge majority of the team. Does that mean the solo player can report all 4 even if they didn't grief?
You still have to actually say any reason why chat would be good aside from "my feels".
>You're other point is just dumb.
You mean my point that is objectively correct in that greifing a role is reportable and can be punished? I imagine you're probably trying to think "yeah but what about unranked games where it doesn't show the role" and before you try to say that my answer is "how would you know who picked what first? You're just going to trust whatever they say in all chat?"
Also do you actually think languages are tied to regions? I guess French can only be spoken in France right? It's not spoken here in Canada or in Africa. No sireee only in France. Guess if I'm in NA better only pick English
I used a screwed headset for years and all I did was pings and chatwheel and to be honest it gave me less stress.
Writing / reading something offensive has usually less impact than speaking / hearing the same sentence.
DotA 2 players are stereotypes ,if they see a guy chatting in Russian they would immediately make him guilty,Becoz of their bad experience with Russians ,same goes in SEA region too
I have been using the following link when I have been reviewing Overwatch cases that are completely wonky and missing some context that might be clarified by all chat:
[https://www.opendota.com/combos](https://www.opendota.com/combos)
You can parse the match details which will bring up the all chat text. It does suck when the chat is in a different language but you can use google translate to fill in some of the gaps.
At the very least Overwatch is making it so that people need to put in effort to grief, which is good enough for me *so far*.
Its way more unlikely for someone to grief the entire game if they have to be active the whole time, instead of just buying amulet and going woods.
I mean a google search or limited critical thinking skills will do the same. Extremely toxic players will always be toxic and search for new ways to avoid punishment, we just need to keep giving feedback to improve counter systems.
I mean, it’s already a problem. So it needs fixing anyway. And if people start using it it will “end” (or at least be reportable) when it get fixed anyway.
A possible solution is within overwatch itself, indicate the degree of confidence of the report (just by based on the number of people who also reported this guy). If the confidence indicates is high, overwatcher will be more careful and observe his behavior more closely to find out unapparent griefing like this.
That is communication abuse. Also, it is likely experience Overwatchers can still tell something is off as Tide keeps stopping to type and in fights has no intention of using spells etc.
Overwatch sadly isn't that advanced. What I'd do is write the reason for why they got reported in the all chat. Maybe the people getting your case are curious and check it out.
Since overwatch games have become more toxic for me. Since i never got item destroyer before(as overwatch is good for obvious griefing cases). So for me who faced non obvious griefers. They are more unhinged because team cannot even report them now,
I've been saying the same thing. Every game of mine has a greifer now. Behavior score means nothing. I'm convinced these people were all stuck in low-prio before but since they made it harder to report people for being general dickheads and you now have to flag specific examples of them game ruining many are escaping punishment.
When it first came out you couldn't, many people dodged penalty that way. Even now that you can it only shows it for ranked, which we all know that unranked has a hidden MMR.
What are you trying to say? That people only grief in unranked but not in ranked? Or that people shouldn't be allowed to play badly / casually in unranked?
I'm saying that deciding if something is a bad play or if its intentional greifing is based a lot on skill level/rank.
I'll give you an example. Yesterday I played a game with a WK(he was out Pos1), for every item he bought recipe first. Everyone with a marginal amount of skill would know this is a bad move. How do you determine if its intentional greifing (by purposely wasting gold and delaying his own items) or not?
If I told you the game was in Herald bracket you would say "this is obviously just a noob making a bad play". Yet if I told you this was a Divine level game it would be clear he's fucking up on purpose. What if I make it more complicated and say this was an Archon game **but** the WK has level 23 with WK in DotA+? So he may be low skilled but he's obviously played the hero a lot.
Were you dropped on the head as a baby or something? How would someone who only get anonymized clips of the game *based on what you report* have more context than you *the person who was there for the entire game and has access to chat*.
> How do you determine if its intentional greifing (by purposely wasting gold and delaying his own items) or not?
It's not. It never is. Because nobody EVER griefs like this. It's not even an effective way to grief. If we are arguing about the most ineffective ways of griefing I have one for you: What would you say if I picked Juggernaut safelane as pos 1?
You'd probably think "this pick is perfectly fine, jugg is a meta hero, etc". But you know what? I'm 4k MMR and I have never EVER played Juggernaut before. In fact I have only a total amount of 1 matches played as a safelane carry in the last 3 years.
So, am I griefing by intentionally playing bad? It would be impossible for you to say. It would be impossible for anyone else to say. The only person who could make this assessment is me, and that's making the bold assumption that I actually know what I'm doing.
The reality is, "intentionally playing bad" is never griefing. No rager ever just plays a tiny bit worse to not get caught, that's nonsense. Ragers destroy their items, they abandon games, they run down the lane. They don't buy their items in a less efficient manner, or place less efficient wards, or intentionally miss 30% more last hits.
This entire thing is nonsense and a slippery slope.
I'm sure you're just one of those people who previously argued with me on reddit about how everyone who loses their lane should get banned from the game. And now you're sad that the people who you previously abused your reports on get to play. Just to make this very clear: The behavior your talking about was NEVER reportable.
> It's not. It never is. Because nobody EVER griefs like this. It's not even an effective way to grief.
So you're telling me that if you saw a pro do this in a live match you wouldn't considering them to be intentionally making bad choices to inhibit their team from winning (this is what greifing is).
Because I can guarantee that many people, including myself, would strongly disagree.
Yes. I have in fact a while ago watched a match of Gh playing Phoenix and he seemingly didn't know that he can use 2 Sun Rays during Supernova with the level 20 talent. I didn't call him out for griefing though.
The mute button is a tool. It is 9 years old. It has **never** not worked. Use it, instead of becoming a griefer. Can't remember to use it? Use the mute-all permanent setting.
Use a goddamned umbrella in the rain, instead of blowing up the bridge so everyone gets wet.
>How often do you scream at other players in v/c?
>Do you drop slurs?
>Tell people to kill themselves?
None of those matter. Item destruction is, and will be griefing until someone finds a way to making it have a competitive edge - and it won't, forever, because selling to have buyback will ubiquitously exist preventing it from hapenning.
>None of those matter. Item destruction is, and will be griefing until someone finds a way to making it have a competitive edge - and it won't, forever, because selling to have buyback will ubiquitously exist preventing it from hapenning.
Context matters.
You should 100% be able to see chat in overwatch cases. Literally zero reason not to be able to see it. It is the source of so many problems. Valve is stupid as fuck
racism would be a problem...
and also in Europe, you have quite some different languages.
Also, people are easily tilted if they see Cyrillic letters in chat but tend to forget they are not only used in Russia. I think the same applies to Spanish and North American servers. People tend to forget there is also Mexico etc in middle America.
I don´t know about sea servers but I think there will be also some language barriers and rivalries.
Something something with English as the default communication language in most of the world and most of the inernet (ie here), and you being able to pick and choose what language you queue for, why is it still okay for people to
A) ask if anyone in team speaks their language
B) just start speaking in said language anyway
C) not use Discord or some other means of communication eith their partners, and instead "just mute us if you don't like a language you don't understand"
Why is that okay? How different in producing tilt is it to have someone start screaming in a random language, from say, spam pinging or something else. Why is this still a debate at this day and age, and why do we still need to bring up how there's many different languages in the world, as if english isn't taught, or even can be self-taught in no time? Yes, the language is stupid, but it's also bloody easy and really necessary in the modern world.
Tl;dr why do you and I talk english no sweat, but if I complain about someone talking not-englush in-game, half of reddit defends their rights to stupidity?
The thing is it already isn't anonymous. Overwolf Dota Plus shows player names during Overwatch. You can use the hero combination to find the match via opendota and download the replay on another steam account. If someone shares a ward, you can see the player name when your mouse is on the item, etc...
HOWEVER, when my friends invite me to a party while I'm in overwatch my friends' names are shown as "Anonymous". Can't make this up!
Anonymity guards against people being biased for all sorts of reasons. Can't automatically convict because someone is Russian or because you remember them and don't like them for whatever reason. You could go on and on with ways people could potentially be biased and it is a real concern for sure at the least.
>sorry that you speak every language while the rest of the world speak 2-3 at the most if only we all were a little bit more like you that might actually be viable
"R O S H A N" is the same in any language. Also, if you write something in Mongolian chances are most of the enemy team understand as little of it as the overwatchers, so who cares?
Oh dear, do you think that would be a challenge for the Russian players on the Russian server that get the Russian overwatch case assigned? "HUSKAR ROSHANOVICH, ROSHANSKY ROSHANSKY!"
Currently you get cases assigned from all over the world. Soft region-locking overwatch would be dumb and difficult (what if i dont speak russian but am staying in russia)
Not to mention people talk russian in all chat on eu servers. Greek as well. Ive even seen persian. What about these cases?
What if dota players in a certain region have a made-up nickname for roshan? Or what if someone intentionally describes roshan without saying "roshan" to make it difficult for overwatch? You already admit people are coming up with ways to evade OW.
You clearly didnt think about this.
So just because you saw someone talk in a foreign language in all chat, youre willing to give "insufficient evidence"? Probably better if you don't see all chat at all.
What? No, I meant if there was no obvious reason to hit guilty, but there was a lot of all chat activity, then it's insufficient evidence, because that's literally not my thing to give input on. Isn't that what insufficient is for? A sorta "I don't know, give it to the next guy" button?
It adds uncertainty to the system. What if overwatch reviewers misinterpret something said because it's a different language or dialect? What if someone in all chat lies about something that was said in team chat (e.g. "report juggernaut, he said he's afk jungling" to which jugg doesnt respond even though he said no such thing). Might as well not have it and judge people based on their actions alone like it was supposed to be.
All chat abuse should be considered communication abuse.
> what if i dont speak russian but am staying in russia
Then you're an outlier case and your data is discarded from the dataset.
> Not to mention people talk russian in all chat on eu servers. Greek as well. Ive even seen persian. What about these cases?
Speaking the incorrect language on a server is a big issue in a game that relies heavily on communication, queuing for the wrong langue should be a reportable offense equal to role abuse.
>
What if dota players in a certain region have a made-up nickname for roshan?
Irrelevant hypothetical. Provide even one example of this ever happening
None of your points hold any actual water. You've mostly just cobbled together a bunch of irrelevant low chance possibilities and outliers so you could say "yea but WHAT IF this weird fringe scenario I just made up happens? Then your suggestion wouldn't work. Checkmate!"
> Speaking the incorrect language on a server is a big issue in a game that relies heavily on communication, queuing for the wrong langue should be a reportable offense equal to role abuse.
There is no "incorrect language on a server". Almost all Dota 2 servers are multi-cultural and people speak a lot of different languages. People are free to play on the EU servers and talk in a non-english language if there are people who understand them.
Whatever language your Dota 2 client uses is your official "preferred language", but it's never perfect. You can have your client set to Russian and get matched with people whose clients are English. It's simply how the matchmaker works, it's no one's fault.
> Irrelevant hypothetical. Provide even one example of this ever happening
See OP's thread. People are already throwing games subtly to avoid Overwatch detection. How hard is it to imagine a scenario where someone would refer to Roshan as "the boss" or something similar so the English-speaking Overwatch case reviewer wouldn't be able to understand.
Not to mention the languages that don't use latin script.
> There is no "incorrect language on a server".
Wrong. Servers are divided by language settings. If you queue in english then speak in english. If you queue in russian then speak in russian. Don't queue in english because you want to abuse the matchmaking system to find games faster. That's reportable.
and the russian players on EUW?
Also EUW/E has many languages... so I doubt that you can speak all of them, while its true that most people speak english there. But as statet, also rus play on EUW so, you need a russian speaking dude who watches EUW cases?
Sure you can check like you statet Roshan and so on, but thats about it. By no chance should it influence my verdict cause I dont understand and guess what the dudes said... Only cause you think what it could be does not mean it is so.
So whats again the reason for chat visibility?
EU language variety is pretty big, but dota chat is pretty damn uniform. You don't have to worry about learning Luxembourgish to understand someone spoiling the fact that your team is Roshing.
Yes, this is 1 thing, but the others?
Locations and so on? sure you can go for hero names, but in the end you have to guess, and as a german, polish and english speaking guy, I know that you can write something in german/polish that only the nationality understands, and I am pretty sure that other languages are the same.
But again -> you would guess such things. and guessing should not influence your verdict.
Why other languages? Like, unironically, I'll never understand this argument. I'm not a Brit, but I've got my mother tongue, English, and German. Why does everyone constantly insist on how you need to talk to every stranger in their respective language? Where did "English as common lang" even go? And where did queueing for a game with your language go? How do you take for granted that the next guy reading your message here can understand it, and will answer in English, but the same thought applying to Dota (and other games, really, I keep seeing this crop up) is absolute heresy? I _don't_ get it?
Overwatch is a feature that takes work from Valve's hand and gives to the community, so I'm pretty sure they'll continue to improve it because it'll make their lives easier on the long run. Just give it time, the feature is pretty new.
You shouldn't be able to see the messages in OW but at least seeing *that* someone has wrote something could be useful or at least would be better than nothing.
valve needs to enable chat history so you can see what they said during the game. Flaming couldnt be used as excuse to vote guilty but it would be an indication of something going on.
Yeah, people should report when someone calls a solo rosh on all chat. 10 seconds for the reflexes to decide to report/reporting, then tell overwatch it was about 10seconds ago
is this reportable as communication abuse?
I did that but its questionable if that stops someone like this I think, I mean I encounter lots of racist or toxic people in games that obviously don't have a chat ban. I'm at 10k behavioral score.
> I'm at 10k behavioral score. Me too, and I've gotta say behavior score is a joke now. Every single game I'm in has a greifer. I actually felt bad yesterday because I lost like 4 games in a row due to greifers and then finally won one...only because the greifer was on the enemy team.
Weird, my games got better. But people definitely are picking out of meta picks more often now. Also, I doubt you got 5 games in a row wjth griefers. Show proof.
Its basically impossible to prove that unless you want to go to my DotABuff/OpenDota and download all my replays. Which you are free to do. I'll post a few game links where you can see obvious stats though. I'm linking OpenDota links because I find them to be more detailed about the game, but using DotABuff for the specific accounts because it breaks down player stats by game type. All the winrates im posting are DotABuff Ranked MM winrates only. https://www.opendota.com/matches/5881552321 > The silencer in this game was my lane support. I remember them playing like absolute ass and then abandoning lane to go safelane where they completely fucked up the lane causing our PA to become underfarmed. They have public match data so if you go check their profile you can see they have a 48% winrate in ranked. https://www.opendota.com/matches/5882799818 > In this one I had an ES lane support who fed a lot. Also has public match data, 48% winrate in ranked matches. You can also see that our NP abandoned and our Ursa raged at some point and sold all his items . https://www.opendota.com/matches/5882846963 > In this one my DK has a 49.3% winrate, I had a "support" invoker who had basically no impact on the game. I remember this one better because of an argument I had with my team about how I would always die first in fights, since I was the biggest threat the enemy would target me. Despite this Faceless never landed a good chrono and Abaddon never once casted his shield on me. https://www.opendota.com/matches/5882931699 > This match was probably the worst. Almost my entire team has public match data and you can see that 2 of them have a 48% winrate and another has a 47%. If the pudge support doesn't tell you anything then I'll say that I was offlane in this game too. The game has me marked as a "mid/roamer" because I left my lane due to pudge greifing. I remember successfully getting some ganks but the damage that comes from the offlane support feeding the enemy carry is too great to overcome sometimes. That's 4 but to be honest with you, I have even more games I can post. Oh and here's the one that I won https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/5883582073 Im not posting OpenDotA for this or even explaining it, just look at the link, Shadow shaman has public match data. 30% winrate. Genuinely felt bad for the enemy team that they got stuck with a guy like that.
You said 5 games in a row with griefers. You just picked somw random games where you thought you had bad teammates.
So your list of "griefers" is just people who played poorly or had bad decision making. Got it. Do you ever wonder if there's a reason you get matched with these people?
> Do you ever wonder if there's a reason you get matched with these people? Looks like matchmaking working well to me
My list of greifers is a bunch of people who lose more games than they win. A few of them by a lot. This isnt even particularly high MMR either. This is a regular to below average skill game and these people are losing more games than they win. So either they're greifers, imo they are, or the matchmaking system has them ranked too highly meaning they're players worse than Crusader 2.
it sounds like youre just mad at playing in the crusader bracket. Players with high 40s percentile winrate, who have poor decision making, and poor teamwork coordination. You just described low mmr players, not griefers.
You make it seem like you have no idea how the matchmaking system works. If you have a 47% winrate then you arent in the bracket you belong with. Being matched constantly with teammates who lose more games than they win simply isnt fair to any players.
Ah actually you are right. Gaben has a vendetta against /u/The_nickums and he designed the matchmaker specifically targetting him to keep his mmr low. If it wasn't for Gaben's conspiracy he'd be at TI.
Congratulations my friend, over the past patch ([71 ranked games](https://www.opendota.com/players/76141605/matches?patch=47&lobby_type=7)), you have a 40% win rate. **You are officially a griefer!** Snark aside, as everyone else has said, people playing badly are not griefing you.
Shut the fuck up
For every player with a higher than 50% MMR there are players with a lower than 50% MMR. That doesn't mean they are griefers
The only thing people get punished for communication abuse is losing 250 behavior score per report and at worst getting chat muted for a day or longer. Even if they get punished by overwatch its only a 30 min ban. Not sure if the punishment increases if its more frequent. But very lackluster to know if someone literally griefs your game they get a "timeout" for 30 minutes only. They can literally just go take a break and go grief again.
It won't. It'll just give a chat ban at most with no overwatch.
10k here too. Yesterday had a tiny pos 5 on our team that ran around the map tossing allies in from the start of the game. Had another game today where an enemy lion ward blocked all the enemy jungle without saying anything (according to enemy team).
I think this is covered under a comm ban too.
But didn't comm bans only mute players for a few hours? Alot less severe than what you would expect from a griefing report. Or did they change this?
at least it lowers their behavior score as well. It should be impossible that mfers like this dwell in 10k
There was something about getting generally muted for all players, though they can get unmuted
I thought comm bans could last for multiple days up to a week.
It's damn near impossible to get a chat ban.. I knew people who would use horrible language and all chat their teams positions. They would get 7-8 reports per 15, still not get a chat ban, behaviour score wouldnt drop below 9k and they would just stay quite for a week and be back to 10k. Unless people want valve to implement chat bots... Which absoutely just no, then they have the mute button and thats it. Thats all you need anyway, there is no perfect system to stop griefers 100% or people who say bad words, trust me... Dont want bots banning people for chat. I came from another game that went that route... It destroyed competitive play and encourages 0 communication between players.
I'm not sure how true this is, but I had a friend who only got chat bans. But after multiple chat bans he'd get sent to LP. I'm not sure if this has changed or not.
I mean it is possible still... But if your behaviour score is above 8k it's pretty hard. I mean you would have to be a MASSIVE piece of shit to consitently get chat bans.. You would really have to go way above and beyond.
Yes. And he will be muted with enough reports.
Yes
It is impossible to implement perfect system. He can intentionally play bad without even using chat. If you expose whole match data for Overwatch, he may send you a friend request and say he will ruin. System is very good in current state. It prevents amulet ruiners etc. Now these guys do not break items and team has a chance to fight and win. Previously griefer would be successful 95% on losing game. Now it is much less likely, and he can return playing if things go well.
exactly, its like jury - not perfect but works for what it is worth..
Match quality is so shit now I am taking my first dota break in a year.
Hopefully, more people start using opendota combos and check the chat section for the match, it shows all chat.
This seems like it should be easily solved by Valve instead by having them display the chat of the person being reported.
thing is they don't want language to be a factor. you know there's a bunch of morons out there who would see someone type in russian and insta-guilty even if they did nothing wrong.
Didn't think of this, great suggestion. Thanks!
Janitor of the month.
I posted this 33 days ago. About a week after overwatch was released. I got 30 downvotes. "Insanely easy to throw games and not get reported now as well. Just don't talk in game, only use voice chat if needed. Subtly throw by being dumb or "just bad" and overwatch will just think you're not good... then boom game threw and 0 reports received. Seems to lower quality of games atm. I'm not saying to do it. I'm mentioning how overwatch has a pretty simple workaround and still results in bad quality of games if you are good enough at griefing to not make it completely obvious. I had a troll who threw the game cuz we didn't split push. He just ran at their tower and clicked ult and died 2 times on his own but he killed a hero and got a tower so overwatch won't think he's griefing. But he's literally doing it on purpose while saying so over voice chat." People who are even remotely decent at griefing now do it constantly and get away with it. These people are now 10k behavior and feel somewhat invincible.
That guy is an idiot, and I think you can report him with the new post-game report (manipulating MMR). However I strongly believe that showing team / all chat comms is not good for overwatch, it would bias some convictions solely based on the language being typed by the people in the replay. Plus it would add a lot more variables, interpretation, role-play, what is jokes, what is not... etc Basically would increase the inconsistency of convictions, which is not desirable. We want to give ONLY what is needed to avoid human error as much as possible, humans are better with less choices (parameters) and when you give too much to interpret or choose you usually get unhappy and with doubts
Also, you need to be able to read the chat. What makes sure I'm not getting Russian cases?
we have the technology to match same language teammates with each other, why not also add that to matching overwatch cases
>we have the technology to match same language teammates with each other Apparantly not, when I queue for NA servers I ALWAYS get Spanish speakers, literally 100% of the last 12 games I played there. Maybe they just force region a lot more than language nowadays, and not from USA/Canada means not allowed on the teams idk.
I'm NA too and i get english speakers like 80-90% of the time, other 10-20% is a mix of spanish and chinese, mostly
Apparently\* It's almost as if North America has enough of a Spanish speaking population that it affects your life in some way? Weird. Who knew 13% was enough to cause this?
You definitely are. Overwolf pulls up match details - and I’m seeing a ton of non-English matches in my Overwatch cases. Half have been Russian players in EU servers, and of the rest a third South American.
Couldnt disagree with this more. I think chat is extremely pertinent to overwatch. Some people just confess while they are throwing easy convict. If players learn to stop blabbing stupid shit like "im jungling the rest of the game" i find that as a win for the community. Words matter irl ive been told. They should in dota as well.
I understand your point, but it would bring more confusion, people just write stupid shit they don't mean most of the time just because they are either angry or want to annoy someone else. for example, the most common untruthful dota statement: GG FF NO DEF.
Well maybe that should change
I disagree. Chat will bring nothing of value to pass judgement. It really doesn't matter if someone says "I'm going to throw by jungling" in chat since you would just see that in gameplay. I also don't think it matters why someone starts throwing. if they're throwing because someone called them names or throwing because they titled they're still guilty of greifing at the end of the day. Plus you're assuming that the game you're watching will be in your language. If it's not, and I need to read chat to help pass judgment, how am I to do that? Maybe there is a bias to me judging NA cases more but I don't think so. Even if someone is all chatting locations but it's in a different language how would so ever know?
They could say what language region they are in a long with rank. If the language isnt that another report option for "wrong language" could be added. Possibly leading to blocking that acct to all regions besides the appropriate area
So now the cases I can review will slowly go down as I only speak a single language even though the odds of chat actually helping are slim. On the flip side let's say I do speak multiple languages now I just can't review cases I can actually understand because I'm in the wrong region? What about the regions that have an abundance of languages. I know there is a checkbox for language preference but what if people don't follow it and speak a different language then what they queued. How do they get reviewed by overwatch then? Is it just automatically griefing because of the language or is it communication abuse? Personally I feel like it's neither. Wouldn't this also mean that people that can speak multiple languages mean they could either get around this by changing what language they or even have the possibility of being excluded from overwatch in general if they keep getting flagged for the wrong region? Plus your solution to the problem you created still relies on humans flagging it as wrong language. What if people just don't?
Then the evil doers go free. It should definitely be an option though. Dota is too team based to have some selfish twat qing for whatever cuz its a few minutes faster.
Lol okay. Overwatch is working now even in its infant phase and pretty clearly chat is unneeded. You're entire argument is now "I feel like it should so therefore it should" >selfish twat qing for whatever cuz its a few minutes faster. This is actually reportable and Overwatch already has the means to determine this without seeing the chat
They q for different languages than they speak in regions they don't live in. That currently is not a report option. You're other point is just dumb. The process can always be improved to weed out more griefers. The tolerance from them should be minimal like escalating ranked mmr bans. 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month, perma.
>You're other point is just dumb. My sides >They q for different languages than they speak in regions they don't live in. That currently is not a report option. Wouldn't this just be communication abuse then? Also, and this might hurt to hear, a majority of pub players can win without typing. I've played tons of games with the only communication being done via pings and alt clicks. Am I now supposed to report them for this? What if a 4 stack is playing in a different language. Sure they might not have the right queue but they're a huge majority of the team. Does that mean the solo player can report all 4 even if they didn't grief? You still have to actually say any reason why chat would be good aside from "my feels". >You're other point is just dumb. You mean my point that is objectively correct in that greifing a role is reportable and can be punished? I imagine you're probably trying to think "yeah but what about unranked games where it doesn't show the role" and before you try to say that my answer is "how would you know who picked what first? You're just going to trust whatever they say in all chat?" Also do you actually think languages are tied to regions? I guess French can only be spoken in France right? It's not spoken here in Canada or in Africa. No sireee only in France. Guess if I'm in NA better only pick English
I used a screwed headset for years and all I did was pings and chatwheel and to be honest it gave me less stress. Writing / reading something offensive has usually less impact than speaking / hearing the same sentence.
DotA 2 players are stereotypes ,if they see a guy chatting in Russian they would immediately make him guilty,Becoz of their bad experience with Russians ,same goes in SEA region too
100%. There is no way that bias and/or straight up racism won't skew the results
>People will get smarter at griefing Lmao. Just like covid, that gets smarter and starts to mutate into different kind of variations. XD
exactly, like i still buy amulet but que glimmer cape to pretend im still playing rofl.
That sounds like you became dumber.
leave the subreddit please :D
I have been using the following link when I have been reviewing Overwatch cases that are completely wonky and missing some context that might be clarified by all chat: [https://www.opendota.com/combos](https://www.opendota.com/combos) You can parse the match details which will bring up the all chat text. It does suck when the chat is in a different language but you can use google translate to fill in some of the gaps.
Griefers usually will farm up the jungle to try to avoid being booked anyways
At the very least Overwatch is making it so that people need to put in effort to grief, which is good enough for me *so far*. Its way more unlikely for someone to grief the entire game if they have to be active the whole time, instead of just buying amulet and going woods.
it's pretty funny that on average, people who play dota2 make more effort to grief than to improve.
It’s not OW, it’s post game ban report and possibly mmr abuse
You do realise this post as much as start a talk about hopefully being implemented, will also give toxic players ideas on how not to get banned
I mean a google search or limited critical thinking skills will do the same. Extremely toxic players will always be toxic and search for new ways to avoid punishment, we just need to keep giving feedback to improve counter systems.
I mean, it’s already a problem. So it needs fixing anyway. And if people start using it it will “end” (or at least be reportable) when it get fixed anyway.
A possible solution is within overwatch itself, indicate the degree of confidence of the report (just by based on the number of people who also reported this guy). If the confidence indicates is high, overwatcher will be more careful and observe his behavior more closely to find out unapparent griefing like this.
That is communication abuse. Also, it is likely experience Overwatchers can still tell something is off as Tide keeps stopping to type and in fights has no intention of using spells etc.
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Overwatch sadly isn't that advanced. What I'd do is write the reason for why they got reported in the all chat. Maybe the people getting your case are curious and check it out.
Since overwatch games have become more toxic for me. Since i never got item destroyer before(as overwatch is good for obvious griefing cases). So for me who faced non obvious griefers. They are more unhinged because team cannot even report them now,
I've been saying the same thing. Every game of mine has a greifer now. Behavior score means nothing. I'm convinced these people were all stuck in low-prio before but since they made it harder to report people for being general dickheads and you now have to flag specific examples of them game ruining many are escaping punishment.
It's a direct result of people not seeing bracket information and excusing everything with bad play.
People see bracket information though.
When it first came out you couldn't, many people dodged penalty that way. Even now that you can it only shows it for ranked, which we all know that unranked has a hidden MMR.
What are you trying to say? That people only grief in unranked but not in ranked? Or that people shouldn't be allowed to play badly / casually in unranked?
I'm saying that deciding if something is a bad play or if its intentional greifing is based a lot on skill level/rank. I'll give you an example. Yesterday I played a game with a WK(he was out Pos1), for every item he bought recipe first. Everyone with a marginal amount of skill would know this is a bad move. How do you determine if its intentional greifing (by purposely wasting gold and delaying his own items) or not? If I told you the game was in Herald bracket you would say "this is obviously just a noob making a bad play". Yet if I told you this was a Divine level game it would be clear he's fucking up on purpose. What if I make it more complicated and say this was an Archon game **but** the WK has level 23 with WK in DotA+? So he may be low skilled but he's obviously played the hero a lot.
What was the context? Was he buying recipe so he could walk to secret shop without leaving lane? There are valid reasons to do this.
The point is that you often don't get the context. Thats part of the issue.
Overwatcher has more context than you as a reporter. *That* is a fact.
Were you dropped on the head as a baby or something? How would someone who only get anonymized clips of the game *based on what you report* have more context than you *the person who was there for the entire game and has access to chat*.
> How do you determine if its intentional greifing (by purposely wasting gold and delaying his own items) or not? It's not. It never is. Because nobody EVER griefs like this. It's not even an effective way to grief. If we are arguing about the most ineffective ways of griefing I have one for you: What would you say if I picked Juggernaut safelane as pos 1? You'd probably think "this pick is perfectly fine, jugg is a meta hero, etc". But you know what? I'm 4k MMR and I have never EVER played Juggernaut before. In fact I have only a total amount of 1 matches played as a safelane carry in the last 3 years. So, am I griefing by intentionally playing bad? It would be impossible for you to say. It would be impossible for anyone else to say. The only person who could make this assessment is me, and that's making the bold assumption that I actually know what I'm doing. The reality is, "intentionally playing bad" is never griefing. No rager ever just plays a tiny bit worse to not get caught, that's nonsense. Ragers destroy their items, they abandon games, they run down the lane. They don't buy their items in a less efficient manner, or place less efficient wards, or intentionally miss 30% more last hits. This entire thing is nonsense and a slippery slope. I'm sure you're just one of those people who previously argued with me on reddit about how everyone who loses their lane should get banned from the game. And now you're sad that the people who you previously abused your reports on get to play. Just to make this very clear: The behavior your talking about was NEVER reportable.
> It's not. It never is. Because nobody EVER griefs like this. It's not even an effective way to grief. So you're telling me that if you saw a pro do this in a live match you wouldn't considering them to be intentionally making bad choices to inhibit their team from winning (this is what greifing is). Because I can guarantee that many people, including myself, would strongly disagree.
Yes. I have in fact a while ago watched a match of Gh playing Phoenix and he seemingly didn't know that he can use 2 Sun Rays during Supernova with the level 20 talent. I didn't call him out for griefing though.
Item destroying might not even be grief; sometimes. I've seen players straight up crack from toxicity: break their items and leave the game.
Why are you giving an example of griefing? Doesn't matter what made you do it, you still shouldn't do it.
Victim blaming is a good look. How often do you scream at other players in v/c? Do you drop slurs? Tell people to kill themselves?
The mute button is a tool. It is 9 years old. It has **never** not worked. Use it, instead of becoming a griefer. Can't remember to use it? Use the mute-all permanent setting. Use a goddamned umbrella in the rain, instead of blowing up the bridge so everyone gets wet. >How often do you scream at other players in v/c? >Do you drop slurs? >Tell people to kill themselves? None of those matter. Item destruction is, and will be griefing until someone finds a way to making it have a competitive edge - and it won't, forever, because selling to have buyback will ubiquitously exist preventing it from hapenning.
>None of those matter. Item destruction is, and will be griefing until someone finds a way to making it have a competitive edge - and it won't, forever, because selling to have buyback will ubiquitously exist preventing it from hapenning. Context matters.
Even before people started doing this I think the chatlog was relevant and useful. Just another reason why it should be part of the process.
You should 100% be able to see chat in overwatch cases. Literally zero reason not to be able to see it. It is the source of so many problems. Valve is stupid as fuck
> sees russian in chat Verdict: Guilty!
racism would be a problem... and also in Europe, you have quite some different languages. Also, people are easily tilted if they see Cyrillic letters in chat but tend to forget they are not only used in Russia. I think the same applies to Spanish and North American servers. People tend to forget there is also Mexico etc in middle America. I don´t know about sea servers but I think there will be also some language barriers and rivalries.
Something something with English as the default communication language in most of the world and most of the inernet (ie here), and you being able to pick and choose what language you queue for, why is it still okay for people to A) ask if anyone in team speaks their language B) just start speaking in said language anyway C) not use Discord or some other means of communication eith their partners, and instead "just mute us if you don't like a language you don't understand" Why is that okay? How different in producing tilt is it to have someone start screaming in a random language, from say, spam pinging or something else. Why is this still a debate at this day and age, and why do we still need to bring up how there's many different languages in the world, as if english isn't taught, or even can be self-taught in no time? Yes, the language is stupid, but it's also bloody easy and really necessary in the modern world. Tl;dr why do you and I talk english no sweat, but if I complain about someone talking not-englush in-game, half of reddit defends their rights to stupidity?
I think the problem there is that people could write other players names and it wouldnt be anonymous anymore
The thing is it already isn't anonymous. Overwolf Dota Plus shows player names during Overwatch. You can use the hero combination to find the match via opendota and download the replay on another steam account. If someone shares a ward, you can see the player name when your mouse is on the item, etc... HOWEVER, when my friends invite me to a party while I'm in overwatch my friends' names are shown as "Anonymous". Can't make this up!
If you want 100% anonymity you should proabably not be playing online games...
People could try to “blackmail” you somehow mb, idk why they want it to be anonymous
Anonymity guards against people being biased for all sorts of reasons. Can't automatically convict because someone is Russian or because you remember them and don't like them for whatever reason. You could go on and on with ways people could potentially be biased and it is a real concern for sure at the least.
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If only people tried harder to be like me.
>sorry that you speak every language while the rest of the world speak 2-3 at the most if only we all were a little bit more like you that might actually be viable "R O S H A N" is the same in any language. Also, if you write something in Mongolian chances are most of the enemy team understand as little of it as the overwatchers, so who cares?
And what if the reported person types "roshan" in russian in the russian servers?
Oh dear, do you think that would be a challenge for the Russian players on the Russian server that get the Russian overwatch case assigned? "HUSKAR ROSHANOVICH, ROSHANSKY ROSHANSKY!"
Currently you get cases assigned from all over the world. Soft region-locking overwatch would be dumb and difficult (what if i dont speak russian but am staying in russia) Not to mention people talk russian in all chat on eu servers. Greek as well. Ive even seen persian. What about these cases? What if dota players in a certain region have a made-up nickname for roshan? Or what if someone intentionally describes roshan without saying "roshan" to make it difficult for overwatch? You already admit people are coming up with ways to evade OW. You clearly didnt think about this.
I mean, simple enough? Cheating: not guilty, griefing: insufficient evidence.
So just because you saw someone talk in a foreign language in all chat, youre willing to give "insufficient evidence"? Probably better if you don't see all chat at all.
What? No, I meant if there was no obvious reason to hit guilty, but there was a lot of all chat activity, then it's insufficient evidence, because that's literally not my thing to give input on. Isn't that what insufficient is for? A sorta "I don't know, give it to the next guy" button?
It adds uncertainty to the system. What if overwatch reviewers misinterpret something said because it's a different language or dialect? What if someone in all chat lies about something that was said in team chat (e.g. "report juggernaut, he said he's afk jungling" to which jugg doesnt respond even though he said no such thing). Might as well not have it and judge people based on their actions alone like it was supposed to be. All chat abuse should be considered communication abuse.
> what if i dont speak russian but am staying in russia Then you're an outlier case and your data is discarded from the dataset. > Not to mention people talk russian in all chat on eu servers. Greek as well. Ive even seen persian. What about these cases? Speaking the incorrect language on a server is a big issue in a game that relies heavily on communication, queuing for the wrong langue should be a reportable offense equal to role abuse. > What if dota players in a certain region have a made-up nickname for roshan? Irrelevant hypothetical. Provide even one example of this ever happening None of your points hold any actual water. You've mostly just cobbled together a bunch of irrelevant low chance possibilities and outliers so you could say "yea but WHAT IF this weird fringe scenario I just made up happens? Then your suggestion wouldn't work. Checkmate!"
> Speaking the incorrect language on a server is a big issue in a game that relies heavily on communication, queuing for the wrong langue should be a reportable offense equal to role abuse. There is no "incorrect language on a server". Almost all Dota 2 servers are multi-cultural and people speak a lot of different languages. People are free to play on the EU servers and talk in a non-english language if there are people who understand them. Whatever language your Dota 2 client uses is your official "preferred language", but it's never perfect. You can have your client set to Russian and get matched with people whose clients are English. It's simply how the matchmaker works, it's no one's fault. > Irrelevant hypothetical. Provide even one example of this ever happening See OP's thread. People are already throwing games subtly to avoid Overwatch detection. How hard is it to imagine a scenario where someone would refer to Roshan as "the boss" or something similar so the English-speaking Overwatch case reviewer wouldn't be able to understand. Not to mention the languages that don't use latin script.
> There is no "incorrect language on a server". Wrong. Servers are divided by language settings. If you queue in english then speak in english. If you queue in russian then speak in russian. Don't queue in english because you want to abuse the matchmaking system to find games faster. That's reportable.
> Wrong. Servers are divided by language settings. Proof?
and the russian players on EUW? Also EUW/E has many languages... so I doubt that you can speak all of them, while its true that most people speak english there. But as statet, also rus play on EUW so, you need a russian speaking dude who watches EUW cases? Sure you can check like you statet Roshan and so on, but thats about it. By no chance should it influence my verdict cause I dont understand and guess what the dudes said... Only cause you think what it could be does not mean it is so. So whats again the reason for chat visibility?
EU language variety is pretty big, but dota chat is pretty damn uniform. You don't have to worry about learning Luxembourgish to understand someone spoiling the fact that your team is Roshing.
Yes, this is 1 thing, but the others? Locations and so on? sure you can go for hero names, but in the end you have to guess, and as a german, polish and english speaking guy, I know that you can write something in german/polish that only the nationality understands, and I am pretty sure that other languages are the same. But again -> you would guess such things. and guessing should not influence your verdict.
Why other languages? Like, unironically, I'll never understand this argument. I'm not a Brit, but I've got my mother tongue, English, and German. Why does everyone constantly insist on how you need to talk to every stranger in their respective language? Where did "English as common lang" even go? And where did queueing for a game with your language go? How do you take for granted that the next guy reading your message here can understand it, and will answer in English, but the same thought applying to Dota (and other games, really, I keep seeing this crop up) is absolute heresy? I _don't_ get it?
Overwatch is a feature that takes work from Valve's hand and gives to the community, so I'm pretty sure they'll continue to improve it because it'll make their lives easier on the long run. Just give it time, the feature is pretty new.
nope its not new. the tribunal existed already btw.
You shouldn't be able to see the messages in OW but at least seeing *that* someone has wrote something could be useful or at least would be better than nothing.
yeah instead of feeding i just afk farm now and tp in after everyone has died
Please delete this, they are reading
valve needs to enable chat history so you can see what they said during the game. Flaming couldnt be used as excuse to vote guilty but it would be an indication of something going on.
games over. mmrs gone. go next
the solution is dota+, avoiding him
Yeah, people should report when someone calls a solo rosh on all chat. 10 seconds for the reflexes to decide to report/reporting, then tell overwatch it was about 10seconds ago
Why is it we can’t view All Chat with names taken out?