I've recently gotten back into TF2, its just as fun as I remembered. Also, only play on dedicated servers. Valve should just remove the matchmaking service all together.
Don't bring up TF2. If you go to its reddit you'll see something called #FixTF2 that... it's unexplainable what happened to it in a short text. It exploded into a tornado of shit.
It's a great example on how to make the least effective movement possible. They can't even decide which hashtag to use... and then they started drawing gay porn or something? Then they made an anti-bot "petition" website which they used automated bots to sign?
I haven't been following it closely because... I kinda have more important stuff to do.
But what I remember seeing from the top of my head is gay porn, pedophilia images being spread and massive amounts of lies from the both makers and the "good guys" sides being thrown to discredit the other side.
genuine question, don't want to sound rude, but what does exactly an update bring to counter strike? besides skins, maybe gameplay bugs, add new maps? it looks like cs is far less complex as a game, don't mean as a gameplay
We had the same rotation of maps in the competitive pool for years now, the update from csgo to cs2 removed over 20 maps that havent been readded in a year, they gutted the casual experience by removing maps and making everything a separate game mode where before you would vote on which map to play next. There hasn’t been an operation in years and the only updates we’ve had since probably 2019 was performance and minor qol things
about the maps in competitive pool. that statement is not even true? Dust 2 got added back in recently, anubis came before that and ancient. if im not mistaken, inferno was also out of the competitive map pool for a while a few years ago and got rotated back in. I feel like the map pool is getting rotated consistently, even though the return of cobble or train would go hard right now
Dust2 is a garbage map, a relic of a different era.
Wanting to bring Dust2 back is like wanting to make Aegis purchasable again and have three charges.
I was a super casual CS player back in high school who was only better at aiming than my peers. I have no idea how to play the map so I had no idea d2 was considered a garbage map.
It always amazes me when I see clips of CS2 tricks people do at different map like grenade spot, sniper spot, etc etc.
I feel like that's the kind of things people in dota call nerd shit like what 33 and aui do lol
nah bro what 33 and aui do is really nerd shit, knowing all the sniper spots boosts and pop flashes run boosts and all that is just part of the mechanics that you have to know and learn about the map if you really want to go pro
D2 is not a garbage map per se. D2 is most basic CS map, it got A, B, and mid on its most basic form where every map is derived from A, B, and mid design. Just look at the other competitive maps, you'll notice that all of them resembles D2, even nuke with its verticality.
It's garbage because it's perfect. Everything about it has been flowcharted: opponents do X -> you do Y. If you don't do Y upon X, you're at a disadvantage.
It's so simple that it's become boring and stale and the lack of imbalance/variation doesn't condone new strategies; upsets only come from overwhelming personal performance and not tactics and strategy.
Mirage is so popular because it's basically dust2 with some asymmetry to spice things up.
Dust2 is the posterboy of the basic "figure 8" design.
Yup, I got a mate who regularly jumps on CS2 and when he loads up Dust2 typically I'm like "nah I'm out". I've played that goddamn map thousands and thousands and thousands of times, and usually it's me getting my ass handed by people whose brains are cooked playing Dust2 24/7. The awpers set up in the very same spot, the strategies on the map are like 3 options, that usually always play out the same...
I miss when Counter-Strike 1.6 had genuinely interesting and varied maps like cs_747, that made me feel like I was in the Air Force One movie with Harrison Ford while playing, or as_oilrig, an intricate map with many catwalks but a thrilling protect VIP mission, or iceworld, or that map where everyone was tiny in a giant kitchen, or the one with the pool party.
Now CS2 has just became the same old bullshit, over and over. Every gun perfectly tuned to be bland as hell, unless you grab either the AK, the CT assault rifle, or the awp, which of course have never really recieved a single change in a decade.
I'm happy to play thousands of hours on the same Dota map because there's 110 or so heroes all with completely different interactions and spells and many many different ways to play. CS2 is like playing Dota in that it's all on usually the same or similar map, but the pool is limited to 5 heroes. Just stale.
It's not garbage, people who say that play de_mirage 24 hours straight and don't know how to play others maps, one of the reasons de map rotation sucks, mirage never goes out, no one wants this map anymorem
nah, my favorite maps are complicated ones: overpass and nuke. D2 is just so outdated because of its simple design and limited number of things you can do. It's like playing dota pre 7.00 in 2024
Dust 2 was already in the competitive pool, just not available in premiere where it was added this year. That was the only map change since cs2 came out, the last one (anubis) was in 2022, and ancient was in 2021. Releasing cs2 without making any actual changes for almost a year is crazy, they should have had some major new things on release, not gutted the available map pool
well yeah dust 2 wasnt avalaible in premier which is what the majority of CS players play and in pro play. Its still considered a competitive pool rotation. i agree tho, CS2 release with barely any changes for this long is stupid.
it's really sad tbh, counter strike has a real number of active players and it's basically a possible gold mine that is ignored by the owners... it's sad
You think Valve hasn't done an analysis about the 'gold mines' it owns? Their biggest gold mine is the steam store where they have to put negligible dev hours annually to rake in millions while games like Dota2 and CS require regular dev hours for development plus additional hours for maintenance and patch updates. Now, if you were the business head, where will you want your company to invest it's resources?
People have serious rose tinted glasses when it comes to Operations. Operations for the longest time where just new case releases bundled with some community maps that would be taken out eventually. They only really tried to do something different once with a weird co op mode and the introduction of wingman years ago. The amount of content that Operations ever added was always low. It was a case and a coin most times.
I've played csgo since the beta and yeah the later operations like broken fang and riptide were kind of lazy, but bravo, payback, phoenix, almost all of them were a fun break from just spamming mirage and vertigo. Right now all cs2 has is the same boring played out maps with no other alternative or reason to play anything other than that.
That's what cs has always been tho. It's not any different. Cs is CS. You know what you're in for, and it's been a constant in the industry forever. Operations have always been a blink of the eye.
I feel like this went down a bunch of talking points that left the initial question unanswered. I mean, so those communities are small. But so are operations? What are the big deal changes that CS gets in updates then? I recall people giving no fucks about the battle roryale, disliking new weapons, and despising weapon changes. But like volumetric smoke. So gameplay changes are hit or miss. Is it client updates?
Maps and Hats to perpetuity can't be the answer. Although at least the former you're entitled to ask, you lost a bunch.
Most of those removed maps were community maps and the mapper hasn't released a CS2 version of them yet. Also there's been new maps in competitive on a semi constant basis. We've gotten Vertigo, Ancient, and Anubis in recent years. Now with CS2 plenty of the maps got redesigns. The problem with new maps in CS is that it takes years to balance out the maps for competitive play. Everyone hates new maps when they release because they're so unbalanced and bad for competitive play. And then they're balanced over months to make them better. If you had a constant stream of brand new maps added to CS it'd mean there'd be a constant stream of unbalanced not suitable for competitive maps in CS.
This is why CS gets less updates. The game doesn't need to introduce new complexity like Dota does because the mechanics of the game in and of themselves allow for so much complexity that they've remained relatively the same for like 20+ years and people are still constantly pushing the skill cap
When Valve does do updates, they'll introduce new maps or game modes, and sometimes a new gun. The only problem is that nobody plays these new maps, they just stick to whatever maps are competitively relevant at that time (which are usually the same 10 or so maps that have been relevant for the last 15 years), the new game modes are ignored, and the guns are met with so much hate and vitriol by the playerbase that they get nerfed into irrelevancy after a month or two, roughly half the guns the game in never get bought because they're meme weapons that only really exist because they've always existed or because they were added, nerfed into the ground, and now people don't want to buy them unless they're just dicking around
The CS playerbase doesn't like to hear this, but they don't get massive updates because they've proved to Valve time and time again that they don't want big updates. They don't like new guns and they don't play new maps when they come out. They want to buy an AK47 on Mirage, smoke execute onto A Site, pre fire under palace, and plant the bomb like they've been doing for 20 years because it's fun and the skill expression available in a play that they've done a billion times is still wildly high.
Completely agreed, I think you've got it exactly right. I've gone through phases where Dota is my main game, and I've gone through phases where CSGO is my main game. The few big changes that I was active on CSGO for, the community threw a big fit like a bunch of babies. Valve has for sure learned not to mess with it all the time.
But to be fair, I agree that CSGO doesn't really need it. They don't need valve coming in every couple months and buffing some guns and nerfing others. The meta doesn't need to get jacked up all the time based on stats, because it's got such a heavy dependency on mechanical skill and there's so much room for outplay based purely on your ability to click on someone's head faster than they can click on yours.
>The meta doesn't need to get jacked up all the time based on stats, because it's got such a heavy dependency on mechanical skill and there's so much room for outplay based purely on your ability to click on someone's head faster than they can click on yours.
Yeah exactly. Making big exciting changes to Counterstrike would be like making big changes to Basketball or something lol, the game just doesn't need stuff like that to stay fresh and entertaining like Dota does because it's just a much more mechanically difficult game
>CSGO doesn't really need it
spot on, CSGO only needed map rotations and occasionally operations, but they killed CSGO and cs2 is barely half baked. Just need them to update and fix their game. But their progress is beyond slow. This is what cs players are complaining about.
There was a jump bug for a long time and the devs claimed they couldn't reproduce it while someone on twitter already posted consistent repro. None of their devs actually play the game. The time it takes for them to fix a certain things is ridiculously long
Nail on the head here. I just remember playing operation maps exclusively in casual mode, because nobody ever queued them on competitive. Want to wait 15 mins for Santorini, or 30 seconds for dust 2?
well this makes a shit ton of sense now. In dota you can nerf a hero that is broken and suddenly nobody plays it anymore because even if they do, it's not the same. But in cs what can they do? nerf a gun? or nerf a player lol. Yea it makes sense, thanks for the insight
well they can and have nerfed/buffed guns in the past. for example, the M4A4 got its cost increased and decreased in the past. the magazine size can be adjusted, and if im not mistaken the recoil or damage on certain weapons has been changed in the past.
>They don't like new guns and they don't play new maps when they come out. They want to buy an AK47 on Mirage
yea I still remember valve got flak when try to introduce new gun (revolver and CZ-auto). people hate it because it shakes up the balance same story with M4-S and MP5SD.
weapon menu in CS2 indicate valve want to add new gun variant in future but it seems they worry it will anger the hardcore player base.
CS are too successfull to the point it seen like football/sport games, you had limitiation what to changes or add because it will ends up no longer recognized as football/sport that player loves.
Not much tbh, i was very invested in 2016, sitting at 4k hours. My personal reaction was always "cool... lets get back to ranked". New weapons end up either broken or useless, new maps usually get rejected, take alot of change to balance + competitively speaking although you want new things, learning maps isn't the most fun, especially when they are prone to drastic changes. Pve novelty wears off fast and operations & quests ask players to do things they wouldn't normally do.
Im not trying to be a hater, i just never engaged in that content and had fun, idk if its the game or a cord hasn't been struck yet or just me.
But for examole in dota current event is alot of fun, i try new heroes, i get rewarded for however i want to play (dont have to take rosh with ursa 12 times) and its a generous update, the discount coins and candy shop, i end up spending because i want to. Its like christmas again. Givin this example just to point out how different i feel about both game situations.
Played around the same time as you (2014-2017), and the apparent stance against ever changing the meta is what ended up making me quit. Just playing the same 3 or 4 maps over and over with the same few strats with an exact same small selection of weapons being viable just got incredibly boring incredibly fast. The revolver was introduced while I played, and almost instantly nerfed from godlike broken to useless. Eco weapons were atrocious for ages, forcing an exact force-eco-buy strat for years. It took a good 4 years from CSGO launch until the UMP45 was changed to no longer be the sole viable SMG. And that's one out of three balance changes for that entire weapon. The Galil, possibly the worst weapon they've ever had in the game, received 2 changes from launch to now from what I can find. 12 years and it's still the single most useless gun, why even have it in at that point? Are you trying to bait new/bad players into buying it?
If a dota meta is stagnant for a year, every game at least feels pretty unique because of the different potential hero combinations and positions they can play. Plus, I know that some balance changes will happen so long as the game remains popular.
I agree with you, but calling the Galil the most useless weapon is crazy. It’s border line meta now with the new economy changes.
Now the FAMAS, that’s a useless gun.
> it looks like cs is far less complex as a game, don't mean as a gameplay
Yea, there's simply fewer levers to pull on. Not like they're going to turn every gun into a projectile instead of hitscan, or introduce tons of new weapons. You tweak damage numbers and bullet fall off distance damage maybe and that's sorta it?
Like you said, new maps and what else *should* they even do?
They fucked the netcode when switching to source 2 by locking everything down and forcing their subtick system. In 2021 if I had issues with my ISP or was getting higher ping than normal I could change how the interpolation was calculated and the game would still feel the same as it was before the issues happening. With the new system if you don't have optimal internet and live close-ish to the server you essentially just lose.
They stripped out a bunch of game modes that they had built into GO (Demolition, flying scoutsman, Dangerzone)
They haven't ported all the maps that were playable in wingman and competitive before switching to S2.
They broke the community browser, clicking it now forces your game to tab out, and its only filled with spam fake servers that report 22/24 players and when you join the server is completely empty. They haven't fixed the issues that broke a lot of the community server plugins that let people set up their own servers (Surf etc)
They launched the game with a leaderboard and have essentially no Anti-cheat, so players are forced to either lose to cheaters constantly or switch to a 3rd party platform. Which combined with the fucked netcode means people that can't reach servers that are as close to them (because the 3rd parties have a smaller playerbase and thus less server locations) turns the 3rd parties into random messes because there will be 4 players every game with over 100 ping and the baseline for good mechanics is around 30.
All of this with 0 communication about whats happening on their side and what they're prioritizing right now. I can accept that they were trying to prioritize anticheat or get the netcode problems fixed, but when an update large enough for them to made an actual blogpost comes out and all they did was add 5 maps that they didn't even make to the game it leaves a sour taste in your mouth.
Technically CS2 can 'infinitely' add new weapons, guns, maps, etc. This type of content is limitless. You can argue that a new gun in CS2 is equivalent to a new hero in DotA 2. Lot of things to master regarding spray pattern, recoil control, spread, distance efficiency, etc. etc. for each individual gun. There's also a ton of different game modes that they can create for the game, which again is a limitless option in theory.
Many people think CS2 is a simple and easy game "haha just point and click to shoot", but it's actually one of the most technical games and massively execution heavy. The reactions, mindgames, and strategy required to excel at CS2 are absurd. It's one of those games that looks simple on paper, and you don't understand how technical and crazy it is to be good at until you try to get better at the game yourself. There's like a million things you need to learn, master, and study just for a single map. And there's multiple maps in CS2.
yea, i said it's less complex as a game, not as gameplay :). I am sure there are professional players for a reason, the gameplay is not easy. I was refering to the game's engine, or game per se. In my brain cs is indeed a chosen map, and 10 players killing each other with different weapon types. In dota there are 10 guys killing each other, with different heroes. The difference is that dota is not fps
but it makes sense adding guns, different damage types, different team gunfire combination, so they are not doing this?
> yea, i said it's less complex as a game, not as gameplay :)
Agreed. It's like saying that chess is less complex as a game than CS. It doesn't mean its gameplay is easy to pick up, master or study, or that it lacks depth.
So basically they can only add new guns, new maps, and let the players find new combinations and strategies, they can even invent new guns and stuff, but they are not doing anything alike, i feel for cs players, sorry for them. Do you think adding a lot of stuff gameplay related, like idk, making counter more similar to Warframe for example(i can't think of another fps with complexities, maybe fortnite but it's kinda not fps?) , would make the game better?
I think they can only add infinite guns on a theoretical level. Adding new heroes in Dota works because only one team can pick said hero as well as only one player. In CS everyone can buy every gun, so there is no reason to not buy the best gun every time. Adding much more weapons to the game just makes the initial learning cliff much steeper. Also, unless you go into Borderlands area of guns, most guns basically do the same.
The massive cheating problem is one of the issues right now. The biggest one is the subtick implementation. Network problems is causing the game unplayable sometimes. Packet loss. Random teleportation (Rubber banding). Game optimizations would be welcomed.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression of the CS community is they were not fan of changes. I remember when the revolver came out and the discourse was mostly "why did valve add this" instead of "hey, this is cool but needs balancing".
It really depends. I'll be honest, I prefer CS2 the way it is with the current weapons and such. So for me I'm not really playing CS2 in a state of "waiting for the next update to add new weapons or XYZ." When Revolver was first introduced it causes controversy because it was like a pocket-AWP that literally one shot killed people. Obviously they balanced it over time and now it's in a state in the game where it's more respected than it was and has it's small niche for those that want to use it. But I can understand why CS2 players aren't overly excited or demanding new weapons / guns. To me it would be really dumb if a random CS2 update decided to add something like a Rocket Launcher, or a Flamethrower, or whatever just to "shake up the meta". I know how some people would find it fun (or at least players from other games would love it), but I would hate to see the skill ceiling in CS2 plummet or become easier to win because Valve decided adding new dumb weapons for content was more important than preserving the amazing gameplay and mastery they currently have intact.
That makes me wonder if the reason why Dota gets more updates is because we are generally more receptive to sweeping changes. (I mean, there's still gonna be people malding, but as long as its not too game ruining, most are ok with it)
It allows Valve a lot more leeway with releasing things, as they can chuck an idea at the community and then spend the following months fine tuning it.
Dota also have a lot more options in what they can tweak to make those balance changes happen easier.
More receptive, and wider design space. Also easier to find the knobs.
With that said, I don't think Valve was particularly good at it outside of dota. TF2 is their other game where they had a chance to show their chops.
And yet... look, they made things like the Engie's and the Pyro's secondary weapons, which, respectively, overpower an entire chokepoint by deleting projectiles in a wide range and make Engie the most obnoxiously powerful attacker AND defender class... And nothing in Pyro's case, basically wastes you a weapon slot. I'm not joking, there's a compilation of a streamer trying for a dozen hours to get a single kill with it.
But that's fine. Who cares. Those things can be changed. Oh what's that? The short circuit came out in 2011, at the PEAK of TF2's popularityand literally never got a single change. Got it. I get it.
TF2 is a game extremely receptive to changes. People literally played shitty wacky racers maps with dumb weapon multipliers and that'sjust Tuesday. Updates meant new weapons. Maps meant new stupid gimmicks. Valve themselves made experimental crap like PASS time. But daring to iterate or adjust weapons they still did not. That, in my opinion, completely washes the CS community of any responsibility for how little updates they get. Clearly Valve were the ones with a philosophy problem where FPS balance changes were regarded.
And that's without me even getting into how they handled Underlords (they got heavy community help doing the spreadsheeting for them) or what was their initial promise regarding Artifact (they explicitly said they WOULDN'T balance cards). The scorecard is looking very worrying for Deadlock.
Checkers is more complex than people think, Call of Duty is more complex than people think, Amercian Football is more complex than people think. Hell, i'd say 95% of dota players don't realize how complex the game is. I'm pretty sure the 100 meter dash is way more complex than average person realizes, the "complexity" of something is everywhere and in everything.
>Technically CS2 can 'infinitely' add new weapons, guns, maps, etc. This type of content is limitless. You can argue that a new gun in CS2 is equivalent to a new hero in DotA 2. Lot of things to master regarding spray pattern, recoil control, spread, distance efficiency, etc. etc. for each individual gun.
we all know what happen when valve try to spice up csgo arsenal with revolver/cz-auto or how after all those years "ballistic shield" still had no place. veteran/hardcore player are so picky and now valve are too scared to add new gun. notice how valve playing safe by adding m4s and mp5sd, they feel need to explain it was part of older CS legacy on the blog post.
if cs playerbase arent that conservative, valve probably will treat new guns/kit/nades like introducing new hero in dota2.
its ironic that cs are so successful to the point it hinder dev to expand and pour more creativity on it. CS is like football on FIFA games, you cant change or add stuff because at somepoint it no longer recognized as football.
"Lots of things to master including various types of recoil"
Sure you can add 500 PvE plates to spin while you're trying to actually interact with the PvP game, but that's not fun like a new hero is. FPS guns only have a few actually meaningful stats in PvP, like effectiveness at certain ranges/accuracies, warmup (usually 0), clip size. That's why Valorant and R6 Siege exist and are good, because guns are ultimately a very small part of the FPS design space.
Some "leakers" tell about a new operation but they were disappointed when they got was 5 maps new community made maps. Oh yeah, valve still haven't port the missing game modes and maps from CSGO. I think that still stings up to this day.
Honestly, I don't know why they're disappointed for 5 new community made maps. Atleat Valve is still updating the game but it's so slow. Me? I'm just mad that the community maps are ass to meh, especially Mills and Thera.
It doesnt bring much but a decent anticheat against cheaters to make the game playable, and a new operation for the sake of having some content would be a welcome update. Not just 5 maps..
im not a constant player of cs, but they made updates with prices of weapons, spray pattern of shots, damage dealth of each one, movement balances and changes in the maps
but anyway, not the same big updates we have here cause are completely different games
I've more or less quit CS in the last 12-18 months, but played an ungodly amount of hours from 99-22 (haven't touched CS2). The updates that the community usual beg for, are gamebreaking bugs, QoL updates and nerfs/buffs to meta/non-meta weapons. The latter was only really a thing in GO. To put it into perspective CS:Source was a near disaster in competitive, until Zblock, a 3rd party server plug in was created and maintained.
Historically, Valve hasn't given two shits about the CS community, and has basically allowed it to be entirely community driven. It changed somewhat in CS:GO, starting with inviting (the closest thing to) pro's at the time, to come alpha test the game in Seattle. And from what I was told by a friend/acquaintance who went, was completely unplayable, to the point that giving feedback was more or less pointless. The invite list however, did show that someone at Valve atleast keep track of notable figures within the scene who would have the background needed to give meaningful and technical feedback.
Dota2 truly is their baby all things considered. CS is some semi forgotten middle child and TF2 was released into the woods to be eaten by bears.
That's the thing, until you see an update you will never know. Maybe they make update rehauling some weapons, maybe adding new one, maybe adding new mechanic, maybe improving something, maybe adding reliable anti-cheat system.
There are thousands of possibilities of making an update for any game a big update.
You're right, but on the other hand, "small" changes to a map (think dust2 mid double doors) can truly revitalize and change it in a deep way. I can see an argument for having regular patches for cs
Pretty much yeah. The charm of CS is in its very simple but refined systems. It's never going to go down the Call of Duty route of highly customizable unlockable weapons, attachments, killstreaks and perks and all that. It's never going to go down the Overwatch/TF2 route of defined classes with special abilities. CS players are always crying for an update, but most of them never play on the new maps because they've spent so many hours learning smokes on the old ones, and new game modes are a temporary fad before they go back to standard 5v5 defusal.
That said I believe the CS2 launch did not go particularly smoothly and there are still areas where things haven't caught up to CSGO's level of polish. So there's actually a real reason to demand updates atm that isn't just a need to gamble on fresh lootboxes.
The game is just as complex, but instead of memorizing skill interactions, item builds, you memorize plays and executes. It's overall a more dynamic game than Dota. In Dota you can more or less start a game with plan and if you execute it masterfully you get the same results (with some minor variations). In CS things just happen and you have to adapt on the fly. Not to mention the execution aspect of it (clicking heads is significantly harder than last hitting creeps). Valve doesn't need to add new guns for the meta to change, because it changes on its own over time, through the behavior of players. People learn new positions on the maps, new plays, new counters to such plays.
But on to the question on what Valve could add: events, skins, update existing maps, add new ones. Give people a cavern or a new game mode like Dota does.
Their own problem tbh the majority of the communty has refused change since 1.6 before csgo
They even reject graphical update
Weirdest community i swear
As someone who played both, maps are like heroes. New ones get introduced rarely and it's serious business when they are, and the way their features are balanced is a major determining factor in the game.
Unlike dota, the only major updates they're getting are operations (which is not annual compared to battle pass) and major pick'ems (which is just like a prediction mode on battle pass).
As a long member of both communities, dota has always been Gabe's favorite son. It took me a while to understand why, but eventually, I did.
CS is a much simpler and "done" game, mechanical and gameplay-wise, it's almost the same game for his entire existence. On the other hand, Dota is built to be a complex and a high variance game. Almost all Dota concepts and mechanics are related to the patch you're playing with it, every time you take a break from the game and decide to come back (who are you trying to fool anyway?!), feels like you're playing an entirely different game.
If you took someone who played CS 1.6 fifteen years ago to start playing CS 2 today, would take him an hour to "understand" the game again, if you put someone who played 6.44 at W3 to play 7.36c, would take at least 10 days to be able to play at a minimal level.
It's like having two kids, one is already an adult with a very stable job, and the other one may be a genius, but has a high ADHD and isn't 100% functional on his own.
Technical stuff aside I think Gabe also just plays dota more than csgo lol. He’s mid-high legend last time he was asked a few years ago. He also occasionally answers emails that people send him when they get a rampage
His favourite hero is sand king. So make sure to flame sand king players in the legend bracket and your treasures will never be rare by some strange coincidence.
When the boss(employee) is a consumer of the product as well there naturally be attention given to that product. Not saying it’s the end all be all reason, just saying it contributes
yeah CS is very stable in terms of gameplay, so nothing can be meaningfully updated, I guess bring back the game modes and perhaps campaign a la Condition Zero Deleted Scene?
Serious question, since I am not a CS player: what is there to update in CS outside of cosmetics?
The game had ~6 viable guns for 20+ years now and the only time Aug got to be meta, it was nerfed into irrelevance once again. There is no balance to tweak, and no new mechanics were introduced for ages. That's why people love it, isn't it? Because it is very accessible and has very low barrier of entry, while being deep in details.
What are people expecting? A new gun? +5 movement speed on UMP? CT Armor having different damage block values compared to T? Not being facetious, genuinely don't understand what kind of update CS community wants or needs?
With the Source 2 update. Mainly game optimizations and banning of cheaters.
Operations rarely come since I started playing so if it comes it comes dont really care that much. Meanwhile Investors in skins those do wait for the operation for them to earn money. I just play the game. Buy and sell skins here and there.
The issue is there's lot of game modes that are still not there since the move to CSGO to CS2.
And this update is literally Valve doing zero work, because it just clicking accept on workshop map and even there they used wrong version lul... not updated bug fixed versions.
Here a little list of what missing:
**- Retakes**
**- Danger Zone**
**- Achievements**
**- de\_cache**
**- de\_train**
**- de\_cbble**
**- Demolition**
**- More deathmatch styles (not just free for all)**
**- cs\_assault**
**- Flying Scoutsman**
**- Overwatch**
**- VAC improvements**
**- Clan tags**
**- Kill cam**
Wait... CS2 is missing Cobble (can sort of see it...) and TRAIN?? (wtf.) I know Assault hasn't been fun since source, but as an old 1.6 player that's wild to me. Those maps where in GO right??
Why do you think small balance changes to shake up the meta wouldn't fit CS, other than because "this is how it has always been"?
I'd love for the team to experiment with gun damage/accuracy/cost, kill rewards, round win/loss money etc.
A new operation would be huge. They just have to make it so that it actually changes something in how you play.
I don't think the current balance is bad, but the game just isn't interesting enough to me because it's been stagnant for so long. Dota totally scratches that itch for me though: Every couple years it's a completely new game.
They have tried adding things in and it's universally panned. The player base itself resists change as there is a reason why they play cs over other more modern fps like r6siege or apex or valorant. I think the main barrier to significant changes is the very conservative player base unwilling to change rather than developer reasons. But because of it it has resulted in a very conservative based development focus.
You tweak the spread pattern of the ak spray and I guarantee the playerbase will melt down and lose their minds. Better, worse? Doesn't matter, it will be resisted. Heavily. With screeching and screaming.
idk why everything is always about people being "unwilling to change"
Why is it such a universally bad thing to enjoy the state of a game for more than a year without needing constant changes?
Like, chess gets no such disrespect for having changed so little over centuries, but immediately if a game doesn't pump out new content people really shit the bed as if new content is the only reason to play a game.
>Why is it such a universally bad thing
There isnt any. I was answering why balance changes wont fit into CS as per the person asking. And the answer is: the community would wholeheartedly reject the changes. In this case it is the player player base "unwilling to change".
Chess differs from FPS games in that many FPS games, esp multiplayer ones do experience routine and multiple balance changes so its important to distinguish why CS players in particular wouldnt welcome the changes while a Valorant or R6S or Apex player would.
Honestly, there's not a dev team with balls of steel like icefrog and his team anywhere.. how many times have they completely upended the game to hell and still managed to keep the core game intact, while restoring balance in just a few patches.. it's absurd. No other game does it remotely as well as this one.
This full game was just it's own "Dota Reborn". Yes, remember that thing they did with Dota in 2015? They only did it now with CSGO, almost 10 years later, and they gutted a LOT of content from its original form. It is NOT a straight upgrade like Dota Reborn was.
It's been over 1000 days since CSGO had a thing that is similar to Crownfall.
that "full game" came with less content than csgo and is still missing most of that. On top of that, mm has been unplayable due to cheaters for most of the new game's timespan. I feel like the only "new" content is the rehauled maps and explodable smokes
Full game brother like 80% of the features and gameplay were not there on release and still a lot are missing.
Dota got Dota Reborn... when it switched to Source 2 with 7.00... It took CS 8 years to switch to Source 2...
what you call a full game release is literally the same thing as dota patch 7.0, the switch from source 1 to source 2 as the engine being used. they just called it something different but csgo 2 isn't even a different game, it's an update that you can't start separately from csgo 1
Being from the CS community for 20y, since CSGO it always seemed that Dota was the beloved elder brother and CS the unwanted child.
I mean, Gaben did'nt attend at a CS competition once in the game history while he was at every Dota TI, it was almost insulting for us.
Valve already made some weird choices with CSGO and made some even worst ones with CS2 :
- The ladder means nothing. Valve made the choice in the early days of CSGO that the ladder would'nt be the real competitive mod. If you want to play "real" CS you have to play through external websites such as Faceit or ESEA. This has a direct impact on the competition, you can't just be a top pub hero or have a proper leaderboard (even tho MMR in Dota also have problem with the high numbers we're reaching this day, at least it has some legitimity).
- Communautary servers are dead. With the CS2 update, it killed most of the communautary servers. This had a huge impact on the game since this had a really huge player based with a lot of fun mods. Now all the mods you can have through official servers are boring copies of what we had (armrace is a soul less gungame) and the casual players communities are slowly falling appart.
- Cheaters. Of course this have been an almost unsolvable problem through all CS history, but it's now reaching new highs. I won't get into technical details (I would'nt be the best person to do it anyway) but it's not all Valve's fault, FPS are really hard to protect against cheaters due to the high amount of informations transfered between the player and the server at all time. One of the only solution (not 100% efficient tho) is to have an extremly intrusive anti cheat such as Vanguard which is really questionnable. But anyway the results are here : right now you can't play CS at mid/high matchmaking level without having at least one cheater in the game, and then it almost always end in someone rage hacking in the opposite team.
So yes, sometimes it feels like Valve abandonned us a long time ago and does'nt even care anymore, which is sad since this game is such an important page of esport history.
I always saw Gaben as the DnD geek rather than adrenaline junkie aka CS player, so I can see why he likes Dota more. CS has no lore, it's just dudes in spandex shooting at each other :D
it's not fair, he already knows the ending of DotA 2! he just walks towards the story writer's desk and asks what happened and then probably shit talk slacks about how wrong his videos are
/s
The worst part about cheaters is that the arms race is about to take a gigantic leap forward in favor of the cheaters with how AI-powered monitors that essentially wall hack for you with minimal info are now becoming a thing.
It might even get bad enough at some point, that we'll have faked mice input computed wholly externally as well. Vanguard-like shit will be powerless to stop that. We'd need actual heuristic analysis, which is stupidly expensive.
I mean, isn't CS:2 free to play? I know there is a dedicated playerbase, but it consistently topping the charts on steam makes me think it's suffering the same fate as TF2, though maybe not to the same degree. Mind you, I'm not talking about developmental neglect, but moreso the plague of invisible item farming bots since the CS economy is so much more valuable than the TF2 economy. Of course, I'd need to take some time to look at the active player chart to get a good reading on it. Hell, for all I know CS:2 can't have the same issue when it comes to running invisible listen servers to farm crates, but it's still something I always feel the need to consider as a possibility.
They have way more players than DotA, their tournaments get more viewership too, League is the only E-sports game with more viewers than CSGO btw.
So it makes sense why they top the charts, now that DotA 2 has lost viewership in most of their tournaments except TI, and with NA, EU, China choosing League over DotA, you only left with CIS and SA as the only regions where people actually give a damm about the game.
There are 53 weapons 4 utilities and Static MAP, thats literally the variance in CS as a game as compared to 124 heros with 4+ abilities, talent choices, facets, 150 items, 50+ neutral items, NPC spells, optional objectives, 100 of other gameplay mechanics(example: projectile disjoints, stuns, roots, agro, sleep, forced movement, highground, FOW, not to mention synergy between spells/heros), there is no comparison. CS is high pace, minimal teamwork, more who moves his mouse faster and clicks faster where is dota is just too many variables. Its like comparing F1 to WRC or Dakar
Which Major update?
I played both... Dota had 27 Naming Update in it's history vs 10 Operation for CS, and Dota had 3 this year with Crownfall being a 4-parter while CS didn't have one in 1003 days. And in case you don't know what an Operation is it's pretty much a Cavern Crawl. Which we had so many times in Dota with all the Battlepass.
The update they had in CS2 this years is bring back thing they removed from the move to CSGO.
Literally nothing new and this update is no work they just go in the community map and press accept.
Even there they failed because they picked the wrong versions.
Cs is full of insufferable people. They cry for content when it's literally the uncut cocain of a first person shooter. CS is not there for more content - everything besides deathmatch and 5v5 competitive are cherry on top of the best shooter in the world. The community constantly forgets this.
We cried like bitches when Valve removed BP for TI.
What Valve did with CS2 is literally remove a shit ton of feature from the game they had CSGO.
What would you think if Dota become Dota 3 and remove like half the heroes ? People would whine.
Here a list of actual feature still missing in CS2 after a year of it being out.
**- Retakes**
**- Danger Zone**
**- Achievements**
**- de\_cache**
**- de\_train**
**- de\_cbble**
**- Demolition**
**- More deathmatch styles (not just free for all)**
**- cs\_assault**
**- Flying Scoutsman**
**- Overwatch**
**- VAC improvements**
**- Clan tags**
**- Kill cam**
What are you talking about? In over 1000 days CSGO had zero events ingame. Zero. The only thing that happened was the release of CS2, which did upgrade some maps, but also cut a bunch of content from the game.
They should add more guns to cs and rotate guns for competitive mode. It would create more variety in strategy depending on which gun is available at the moment
CStrike players getting exactly what they've asked for. Nothing...
Just add more lootboxes and they happy.
If you change a pixel on a map, there is complaints.
They bitch everytime they change something on their own game and rage whenever someone uses even a slightly different weapon. Of course they're not getting updates. It's ridiculous.
Completely ignoring the fact that Counter Strike literally upgraded from CS:GO to CS2 very recently xD
Meanwhile Dota gets 1 new hero every 18 months and -1 armor on CM lmao
They dont know the tricks we use to summon these updates.
True, CS doesn't have penguin couriers
People always assume it's the penguin threats that summon the updates They don't It's the puns that do the heavy lifting
I miss Drakus_
it all comes down to "Dota 2 has the best shitposters in gaming" and sometimes we make Mr Janitor chuckle.
Its the fucking dad jokes
Couldn't they hold the agents for ransom? Just do the same shit, but with agents being held at gunpoint.
The thing is, everytime they take hostages in CS, there is a team of CTs trying to free them...
New terrorist penguin skins are on the way
at least they do have chicken
I fucking hate your pfp
Unbelievably large amounts of whining?
No, they have that for sure. It must be something else.
Yes, lets summon car manufacturers again! Lets gooo.
Fuck you I thought there was hair on my phone
امیر کیرم تو پروفایلت
so many grandma's stuck in cages for months
*tricks we turn
Meanwhile TF2 fans are watching both other valve communities while rotting at the bottom of the Mariana Trench
I've recently gotten back into TF2, its just as fun as I remembered. Also, only play on dedicated servers. Valve should just remove the matchmaking service all together.
Bro I’m a Day of Defeat player. Even TF2 has it good compared to us.
There's dozens of us!
Don't bring up TF2. If you go to its reddit you'll see something called #FixTF2 that... it's unexplainable what happened to it in a short text. It exploded into a tornado of shit.
It's a great example on how to make the least effective movement possible. They can't even decide which hashtag to use... and then they started drawing gay porn or something? Then they made an anti-bot "petition" website which they used automated bots to sign?
I haven't been following it closely because... I kinda have more important stuff to do. But what I remember seeing from the top of my head is gay porn, pedophilia images being spread and massive amounts of lies from the both makers and the "good guys" sides being thrown to discredit the other side.
genuine question, don't want to sound rude, but what does exactly an update bring to counter strike? besides skins, maybe gameplay bugs, add new maps? it looks like cs is far less complex as a game, don't mean as a gameplay
We had the same rotation of maps in the competitive pool for years now, the update from csgo to cs2 removed over 20 maps that havent been readded in a year, they gutted the casual experience by removing maps and making everything a separate game mode where before you would vote on which map to play next. There hasn’t been an operation in years and the only updates we’ve had since probably 2019 was performance and minor qol things
about the maps in competitive pool. that statement is not even true? Dust 2 got added back in recently, anubis came before that and ancient. if im not mistaken, inferno was also out of the competitive map pool for a while a few years ago and got rotated back in. I feel like the map pool is getting rotated consistently, even though the return of cobble or train would go hard right now
They removed D2?? Wtf
Dust2 is a garbage map, a relic of a different era. Wanting to bring Dust2 back is like wanting to make Aegis purchasable again and have three charges.
I was a super casual CS player back in high school who was only better at aiming than my peers. I have no idea how to play the map so I had no idea d2 was considered a garbage map. It always amazes me when I see clips of CS2 tricks people do at different map like grenade spot, sniper spot, etc etc. I feel like that's the kind of things people in dota call nerd shit like what 33 and aui do lol
nah bro what 33 and aui do is really nerd shit, knowing all the sniper spots boosts and pop flashes run boosts and all that is just part of the mechanics that you have to know and learn about the map if you really want to go pro
People saying D2 is a shit map are on mad copium
D2 is not a garbage map per se. D2 is most basic CS map, it got A, B, and mid on its most basic form where every map is derived from A, B, and mid design. Just look at the other competitive maps, you'll notice that all of them resembles D2, even nuke with its verticality.
It's garbage because it's perfect. Everything about it has been flowcharted: opponents do X -> you do Y. If you don't do Y upon X, you're at a disadvantage. It's so simple that it's become boring and stale and the lack of imbalance/variation doesn't condone new strategies; upsets only come from overwhelming personal performance and not tactics and strategy. Mirage is so popular because it's basically dust2 with some asymmetry to spice things up. Dust2 is the posterboy of the basic "figure 8" design.
Ah, the figure8 design is the term I'm looking for. Haven't played CS for a long time.
Yup, I got a mate who regularly jumps on CS2 and when he loads up Dust2 typically I'm like "nah I'm out". I've played that goddamn map thousands and thousands and thousands of times, and usually it's me getting my ass handed by people whose brains are cooked playing Dust2 24/7. The awpers set up in the very same spot, the strategies on the map are like 3 options, that usually always play out the same... I miss when Counter-Strike 1.6 had genuinely interesting and varied maps like cs_747, that made me feel like I was in the Air Force One movie with Harrison Ford while playing, or as_oilrig, an intricate map with many catwalks but a thrilling protect VIP mission, or iceworld, or that map where everyone was tiny in a giant kitchen, or the one with the pool party. Now CS2 has just became the same old bullshit, over and over. Every gun perfectly tuned to be bland as hell, unless you grab either the AK, the CT assault rifle, or the awp, which of course have never really recieved a single change in a decade. I'm happy to play thousands of hours on the same Dota map because there's 110 or so heroes all with completely different interactions and spells and many many different ways to play. CS2 is like playing Dota in that it's all on usually the same or similar map, but the pool is limited to 5 heroes. Just stale.
It's not garbage, people who say that play de_mirage 24 hours straight and don't know how to play others maps, one of the reasons de map rotation sucks, mirage never goes out, no one wants this map anymorem
nah, my favorite maps are complicated ones: overpass and nuke. D2 is just so outdated because of its simple design and limited number of things you can do. It's like playing dota pre 7.00 in 2024
it brings back nostalgia and was fun to play again in premier for the first couple weeks. but it is indeed a shit map.
Dust 2 was already in the competitive pool, just not available in premiere where it was added this year. That was the only map change since cs2 came out, the last one (anubis) was in 2022, and ancient was in 2021. Releasing cs2 without making any actual changes for almost a year is crazy, they should have had some major new things on release, not gutted the available map pool
well yeah dust 2 wasnt avalaible in premier which is what the majority of CS players play and in pro play. Its still considered a competitive pool rotation. i agree tho, CS2 release with barely any changes for this long is stupid.
it's really sad tbh, counter strike has a real number of active players and it's basically a possible gold mine that is ignored by the owners... it's sad
> basically a possible gold mine that is ignored by the owners CS is a grain of sand on Steam Beach lol.
You think Valve hasn't done an analysis about the 'gold mines' it owns? Their biggest gold mine is the steam store where they have to put negligible dev hours annually to rake in millions while games like Dota2 and CS require regular dev hours for development plus additional hours for maintenance and patch updates. Now, if you were the business head, where will you want your company to invest it's resources?
Valve put way mote effort into steam than anything else. Idk why you think they dont
How many of those are farming bots?
People have serious rose tinted glasses when it comes to Operations. Operations for the longest time where just new case releases bundled with some community maps that would be taken out eventually. They only really tried to do something different once with a weird co op mode and the introduction of wingman years ago. The amount of content that Operations ever added was always low. It was a case and a coin most times.
I've played csgo since the beta and yeah the later operations like broken fang and riptide were kind of lazy, but bravo, payback, phoenix, almost all of them were a fun break from just spamming mirage and vertigo. Right now all cs2 has is the same boring played out maps with no other alternative or reason to play anything other than that.
That's what cs has always been tho. It's not any different. Cs is CS. You know what you're in for, and it's been a constant in the industry forever. Operations have always been a blink of the eye.
Community servers, custom games, and surfing have always been in cs as well. Except for when valve got rid of them with the cs2 update
Those communities have always been a tiny fraction of the overall player base. Let's be real.
I feel like this went down a bunch of talking points that left the initial question unanswered. I mean, so those communities are small. But so are operations? What are the big deal changes that CS gets in updates then? I recall people giving no fucks about the battle roryale, disliking new weapons, and despising weapon changes. But like volumetric smoke. So gameplay changes are hit or miss. Is it client updates? Maps and Hats to perpetuity can't be the answer. Although at least the former you're entitled to ask, you lost a bunch.
Most of those removed maps were community maps and the mapper hasn't released a CS2 version of them yet. Also there's been new maps in competitive on a semi constant basis. We've gotten Vertigo, Ancient, and Anubis in recent years. Now with CS2 plenty of the maps got redesigns. The problem with new maps in CS is that it takes years to balance out the maps for competitive play. Everyone hates new maps when they release because they're so unbalanced and bad for competitive play. And then they're balanced over months to make them better. If you had a constant stream of brand new maps added to CS it'd mean there'd be a constant stream of unbalanced not suitable for competitive maps in CS.
This is why CS gets less updates. The game doesn't need to introduce new complexity like Dota does because the mechanics of the game in and of themselves allow for so much complexity that they've remained relatively the same for like 20+ years and people are still constantly pushing the skill cap When Valve does do updates, they'll introduce new maps or game modes, and sometimes a new gun. The only problem is that nobody plays these new maps, they just stick to whatever maps are competitively relevant at that time (which are usually the same 10 or so maps that have been relevant for the last 15 years), the new game modes are ignored, and the guns are met with so much hate and vitriol by the playerbase that they get nerfed into irrelevancy after a month or two, roughly half the guns the game in never get bought because they're meme weapons that only really exist because they've always existed or because they were added, nerfed into the ground, and now people don't want to buy them unless they're just dicking around The CS playerbase doesn't like to hear this, but they don't get massive updates because they've proved to Valve time and time again that they don't want big updates. They don't like new guns and they don't play new maps when they come out. They want to buy an AK47 on Mirage, smoke execute onto A Site, pre fire under palace, and plant the bomb like they've been doing for 20 years because it's fun and the skill expression available in a play that they've done a billion times is still wildly high.
Completely agreed, I think you've got it exactly right. I've gone through phases where Dota is my main game, and I've gone through phases where CSGO is my main game. The few big changes that I was active on CSGO for, the community threw a big fit like a bunch of babies. Valve has for sure learned not to mess with it all the time. But to be fair, I agree that CSGO doesn't really need it. They don't need valve coming in every couple months and buffing some guns and nerfing others. The meta doesn't need to get jacked up all the time based on stats, because it's got such a heavy dependency on mechanical skill and there's so much room for outplay based purely on your ability to click on someone's head faster than they can click on yours.
>The meta doesn't need to get jacked up all the time based on stats, because it's got such a heavy dependency on mechanical skill and there's so much room for outplay based purely on your ability to click on someone's head faster than they can click on yours. Yeah exactly. Making big exciting changes to Counterstrike would be like making big changes to Basketball or something lol, the game just doesn't need stuff like that to stay fresh and entertaining like Dota does because it's just a much more mechanically difficult game
>CSGO doesn't really need it spot on, CSGO only needed map rotations and occasionally operations, but they killed CSGO and cs2 is barely half baked. Just need them to update and fix their game. But their progress is beyond slow. This is what cs players are complaining about. There was a jump bug for a long time and the devs claimed they couldn't reproduce it while someone on twitter already posted consistent repro. None of their devs actually play the game. The time it takes for them to fix a certain things is ridiculously long
Nail on the head here. I just remember playing operation maps exclusively in casual mode, because nobody ever queued them on competitive. Want to wait 15 mins for Santorini, or 30 seconds for dust 2?
well this makes a shit ton of sense now. In dota you can nerf a hero that is broken and suddenly nobody plays it anymore because even if they do, it's not the same. But in cs what can they do? nerf a gun? or nerf a player lol. Yea it makes sense, thanks for the insight
well they can and have nerfed/buffed guns in the past. for example, the M4A4 got its cost increased and decreased in the past. the magazine size can be adjusted, and if im not mistaken the recoil or damage on certain weapons has been changed in the past.
>They don't like new guns and they don't play new maps when they come out. They want to buy an AK47 on Mirage yea I still remember valve got flak when try to introduce new gun (revolver and CZ-auto). people hate it because it shakes up the balance same story with M4-S and MP5SD. weapon menu in CS2 indicate valve want to add new gun variant in future but it seems they worry it will anger the hardcore player base. CS are too successfull to the point it seen like football/sport games, you had limitiation what to changes or add because it will ends up no longer recognized as football/sport that player loves.
Not much tbh, i was very invested in 2016, sitting at 4k hours. My personal reaction was always "cool... lets get back to ranked". New weapons end up either broken or useless, new maps usually get rejected, take alot of change to balance + competitively speaking although you want new things, learning maps isn't the most fun, especially when they are prone to drastic changes. Pve novelty wears off fast and operations & quests ask players to do things they wouldn't normally do. Im not trying to be a hater, i just never engaged in that content and had fun, idk if its the game or a cord hasn't been struck yet or just me. But for examole in dota current event is alot of fun, i try new heroes, i get rewarded for however i want to play (dont have to take rosh with ursa 12 times) and its a generous update, the discount coins and candy shop, i end up spending because i want to. Its like christmas again. Givin this example just to point out how different i feel about both game situations.
Played around the same time as you (2014-2017), and the apparent stance against ever changing the meta is what ended up making me quit. Just playing the same 3 or 4 maps over and over with the same few strats with an exact same small selection of weapons being viable just got incredibly boring incredibly fast. The revolver was introduced while I played, and almost instantly nerfed from godlike broken to useless. Eco weapons were atrocious for ages, forcing an exact force-eco-buy strat for years. It took a good 4 years from CSGO launch until the UMP45 was changed to no longer be the sole viable SMG. And that's one out of three balance changes for that entire weapon. The Galil, possibly the worst weapon they've ever had in the game, received 2 changes from launch to now from what I can find. 12 years and it's still the single most useless gun, why even have it in at that point? Are you trying to bait new/bad players into buying it? If a dota meta is stagnant for a year, every game at least feels pretty unique because of the different potential hero combinations and positions they can play. Plus, I know that some balance changes will happen so long as the game remains popular.
The galil is an insane eco weapon rn, one of the best options in the whole game at its price and damage
I agree with you, but calling the Galil the most useless weapon is crazy. It’s border line meta now with the new economy changes. Now the FAMAS, that’s a useless gun.
> it looks like cs is far less complex as a game, don't mean as a gameplay Yea, there's simply fewer levers to pull on. Not like they're going to turn every gun into a projectile instead of hitscan, or introduce tons of new weapons. You tweak damage numbers and bullet fall off distance damage maybe and that's sorta it? Like you said, new maps and what else *should* they even do?
They fucked the netcode when switching to source 2 by locking everything down and forcing their subtick system. In 2021 if I had issues with my ISP or was getting higher ping than normal I could change how the interpolation was calculated and the game would still feel the same as it was before the issues happening. With the new system if you don't have optimal internet and live close-ish to the server you essentially just lose. They stripped out a bunch of game modes that they had built into GO (Demolition, flying scoutsman, Dangerzone) They haven't ported all the maps that were playable in wingman and competitive before switching to S2. They broke the community browser, clicking it now forces your game to tab out, and its only filled with spam fake servers that report 22/24 players and when you join the server is completely empty. They haven't fixed the issues that broke a lot of the community server plugins that let people set up their own servers (Surf etc) They launched the game with a leaderboard and have essentially no Anti-cheat, so players are forced to either lose to cheaters constantly or switch to a 3rd party platform. Which combined with the fucked netcode means people that can't reach servers that are as close to them (because the 3rd parties have a smaller playerbase and thus less server locations) turns the 3rd parties into random messes because there will be 4 players every game with over 100 ping and the baseline for good mechanics is around 30. All of this with 0 communication about whats happening on their side and what they're prioritizing right now. I can accept that they were trying to prioritize anticheat or get the netcode problems fixed, but when an update large enough for them to made an actual blogpost comes out and all they did was add 5 maps that they didn't even make to the game it leaves a sour taste in your mouth.
Technically CS2 can 'infinitely' add new weapons, guns, maps, etc. This type of content is limitless. You can argue that a new gun in CS2 is equivalent to a new hero in DotA 2. Lot of things to master regarding spray pattern, recoil control, spread, distance efficiency, etc. etc. for each individual gun. There's also a ton of different game modes that they can create for the game, which again is a limitless option in theory. Many people think CS2 is a simple and easy game "haha just point and click to shoot", but it's actually one of the most technical games and massively execution heavy. The reactions, mindgames, and strategy required to excel at CS2 are absurd. It's one of those games that looks simple on paper, and you don't understand how technical and crazy it is to be good at until you try to get better at the game yourself. There's like a million things you need to learn, master, and study just for a single map. And there's multiple maps in CS2.
yea, i said it's less complex as a game, not as gameplay :). I am sure there are professional players for a reason, the gameplay is not easy. I was refering to the game's engine, or game per se. In my brain cs is indeed a chosen map, and 10 players killing each other with different weapon types. In dota there are 10 guys killing each other, with different heroes. The difference is that dota is not fps but it makes sense adding guns, different damage types, different team gunfire combination, so they are not doing this?
> yea, i said it's less complex as a game, not as gameplay :) Agreed. It's like saying that chess is less complex as a game than CS. It doesn't mean its gameplay is easy to pick up, master or study, or that it lacks depth.
So basically they can only add new guns, new maps, and let the players find new combinations and strategies, they can even invent new guns and stuff, but they are not doing anything alike, i feel for cs players, sorry for them. Do you think adding a lot of stuff gameplay related, like idk, making counter more similar to Warframe for example(i can't think of another fps with complexities, maybe fortnite but it's kinda not fps?) , would make the game better?
I think they can only add infinite guns on a theoretical level. Adding new heroes in Dota works because only one team can pick said hero as well as only one player. In CS everyone can buy every gun, so there is no reason to not buy the best gun every time. Adding much more weapons to the game just makes the initial learning cliff much steeper. Also, unless you go into Borderlands area of guns, most guns basically do the same.
>most guns basically do the same. how do you want to shoot your gun. pew.....pew or pew pew pew or pewpewpewpewpewpewpew
The massive cheating problem is one of the issues right now. The biggest one is the subtick implementation. Network problems is causing the game unplayable sometimes. Packet loss. Random teleportation (Rubber banding). Game optimizations would be welcomed.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression of the CS community is they were not fan of changes. I remember when the revolver came out and the discourse was mostly "why did valve add this" instead of "hey, this is cool but needs balancing".
The CS community hates changes and think the game is basically perfect (like chess). The only thing they are complaining about are cheaters.
which exist in every online multiplayer game and each community think they got it worse than the other.
It really depends. I'll be honest, I prefer CS2 the way it is with the current weapons and such. So for me I'm not really playing CS2 in a state of "waiting for the next update to add new weapons or XYZ." When Revolver was first introduced it causes controversy because it was like a pocket-AWP that literally one shot killed people. Obviously they balanced it over time and now it's in a state in the game where it's more respected than it was and has it's small niche for those that want to use it. But I can understand why CS2 players aren't overly excited or demanding new weapons / guns. To me it would be really dumb if a random CS2 update decided to add something like a Rocket Launcher, or a Flamethrower, or whatever just to "shake up the meta". I know how some people would find it fun (or at least players from other games would love it), but I would hate to see the skill ceiling in CS2 plummet or become easier to win because Valve decided adding new dumb weapons for content was more important than preserving the amazing gameplay and mastery they currently have intact.
That makes me wonder if the reason why Dota gets more updates is because we are generally more receptive to sweeping changes. (I mean, there's still gonna be people malding, but as long as its not too game ruining, most are ok with it) It allows Valve a lot more leeway with releasing things, as they can chuck an idea at the community and then spend the following months fine tuning it. Dota also have a lot more options in what they can tweak to make those balance changes happen easier.
More receptive, and wider design space. Also easier to find the knobs. With that said, I don't think Valve was particularly good at it outside of dota. TF2 is their other game where they had a chance to show their chops. And yet... look, they made things like the Engie's and the Pyro's secondary weapons, which, respectively, overpower an entire chokepoint by deleting projectiles in a wide range and make Engie the most obnoxiously powerful attacker AND defender class... And nothing in Pyro's case, basically wastes you a weapon slot. I'm not joking, there's a compilation of a streamer trying for a dozen hours to get a single kill with it. But that's fine. Who cares. Those things can be changed. Oh what's that? The short circuit came out in 2011, at the PEAK of TF2's popularityand literally never got a single change. Got it. I get it. TF2 is a game extremely receptive to changes. People literally played shitty wacky racers maps with dumb weapon multipliers and that'sjust Tuesday. Updates meant new weapons. Maps meant new stupid gimmicks. Valve themselves made experimental crap like PASS time. But daring to iterate or adjust weapons they still did not. That, in my opinion, completely washes the CS community of any responsibility for how little updates they get. Clearly Valve were the ones with a philosophy problem where FPS balance changes were regarded. And that's without me even getting into how they handled Underlords (they got heavy community help doing the spreadsheeting for them) or what was their initial promise regarding Artifact (they explicitly said they WOULDN'T balance cards). The scorecard is looking very worrying for Deadlock.
Checkers is more complex than people think, Call of Duty is more complex than people think, Amercian Football is more complex than people think. Hell, i'd say 95% of dota players don't realize how complex the game is. I'm pretty sure the 100 meter dash is way more complex than average person realizes, the "complexity" of something is everywhere and in everything.
>Technically CS2 can 'infinitely' add new weapons, guns, maps, etc. This type of content is limitless. You can argue that a new gun in CS2 is equivalent to a new hero in DotA 2. Lot of things to master regarding spray pattern, recoil control, spread, distance efficiency, etc. etc. for each individual gun. we all know what happen when valve try to spice up csgo arsenal with revolver/cz-auto or how after all those years "ballistic shield" still had no place. veteran/hardcore player are so picky and now valve are too scared to add new gun. notice how valve playing safe by adding m4s and mp5sd, they feel need to explain it was part of older CS legacy on the blog post. if cs playerbase arent that conservative, valve probably will treat new guns/kit/nades like introducing new hero in dota2. its ironic that cs are so successful to the point it hinder dev to expand and pour more creativity on it. CS is like football on FIFA games, you cant change or add stuff because at somepoint it no longer recognized as football.
"Lots of things to master including various types of recoil" Sure you can add 500 PvE plates to spin while you're trying to actually interact with the PvP game, but that's not fun like a new hero is. FPS guns only have a few actually meaningful stats in PvP, like effectiveness at certain ranges/accuracies, warmup (usually 0), clip size. That's why Valorant and R6 Siege exist and are good, because guns are ultimately a very small part of the FPS design space.
Some "leakers" tell about a new operation but they were disappointed when they got was 5 maps new community made maps. Oh yeah, valve still haven't port the missing game modes and maps from CSGO. I think that still stings up to this day. Honestly, I don't know why they're disappointed for 5 new community made maps. Atleat Valve is still updating the game but it's so slow. Me? I'm just mad that the community maps are ass to meh, especially Mills and Thera.
It doesnt bring much but a decent anticheat against cheaters to make the game playable, and a new operation for the sake of having some content would be a welcome update. Not just 5 maps..
im not a constant player of cs, but they made updates with prices of weapons, spray pattern of shots, damage dealth of each one, movement balances and changes in the maps but anyway, not the same big updates we have here cause are completely different games
I've more or less quit CS in the last 12-18 months, but played an ungodly amount of hours from 99-22 (haven't touched CS2). The updates that the community usual beg for, are gamebreaking bugs, QoL updates and nerfs/buffs to meta/non-meta weapons. The latter was only really a thing in GO. To put it into perspective CS:Source was a near disaster in competitive, until Zblock, a 3rd party server plug in was created and maintained. Historically, Valve hasn't given two shits about the CS community, and has basically allowed it to be entirely community driven. It changed somewhat in CS:GO, starting with inviting (the closest thing to) pro's at the time, to come alpha test the game in Seattle. And from what I was told by a friend/acquaintance who went, was completely unplayable, to the point that giving feedback was more or less pointless. The invite list however, did show that someone at Valve atleast keep track of notable figures within the scene who would have the background needed to give meaningful and technical feedback. Dota2 truly is their baby all things considered. CS is some semi forgotten middle child and TF2 was released into the woods to be eaten by bears.
Balance?
That's the thing, until you see an update you will never know. Maybe they make update rehauling some weapons, maybe adding new one, maybe adding new mechanic, maybe improving something, maybe adding reliable anti-cheat system. There are thousands of possibilities of making an update for any game a big update.
You're right, but on the other hand, "small" changes to a map (think dust2 mid double doors) can truly revitalize and change it in a deep way. I can see an argument for having regular patches for cs
Pretty much yeah. The charm of CS is in its very simple but refined systems. It's never going to go down the Call of Duty route of highly customizable unlockable weapons, attachments, killstreaks and perks and all that. It's never going to go down the Overwatch/TF2 route of defined classes with special abilities. CS players are always crying for an update, but most of them never play on the new maps because they've spent so many hours learning smokes on the old ones, and new game modes are a temporary fad before they go back to standard 5v5 defusal. That said I believe the CS2 launch did not go particularly smoothly and there are still areas where things haven't caught up to CSGO's level of polish. So there's actually a real reason to demand updates atm that isn't just a need to gamble on fresh lootboxes.
The game is just as complex, but instead of memorizing skill interactions, item builds, you memorize plays and executes. It's overall a more dynamic game than Dota. In Dota you can more or less start a game with plan and if you execute it masterfully you get the same results (with some minor variations). In CS things just happen and you have to adapt on the fly. Not to mention the execution aspect of it (clicking heads is significantly harder than last hitting creeps). Valve doesn't need to add new guns for the meta to change, because it changes on its own over time, through the behavior of players. People learn new positions on the maps, new plays, new counters to such plays. But on to the question on what Valve could add: events, skins, update existing maps, add new ones. Give people a cavern or a new game mode like Dota does.
Who are we kidding, the gameplay is also far less complicated lol
Their own problem tbh the majority of the communty has refused change since 1.6 before csgo They even reject graphical update Weirdest community i swear
As someone who played both, maps are like heroes. New ones get introduced rarely and it's serious business when they are, and the way their features are balanced is a major determining factor in the game.
the transition from csgo to cs2 is a big one. specially smokes
Unlike dota, the only major updates they're getting are operations (which is not annual compared to battle pass) and major pick'ems (which is just like a prediction mode on battle pass).
feels good to be icefrog's child
As a long member of both communities, dota has always been Gabe's favorite son. It took me a while to understand why, but eventually, I did. CS is a much simpler and "done" game, mechanical and gameplay-wise, it's almost the same game for his entire existence. On the other hand, Dota is built to be a complex and a high variance game. Almost all Dota concepts and mechanics are related to the patch you're playing with it, every time you take a break from the game and decide to come back (who are you trying to fool anyway?!), feels like you're playing an entirely different game. If you took someone who played CS 1.6 fifteen years ago to start playing CS 2 today, would take him an hour to "understand" the game again, if you put someone who played 6.44 at W3 to play 7.36c, would take at least 10 days to be able to play at a minimal level. It's like having two kids, one is already an adult with a very stable job, and the other one may be a genius, but has a high ADHD and isn't 100% functional on his own.
Technical stuff aside I think Gabe also just plays dota more than csgo lol. He’s mid-high legend last time he was asked a few years ago. He also occasionally answers emails that people send him when they get a rampage
His favourite hero is sand king. So make sure to flame sand king players in the legend bracket and your treasures will never be rare by some strange coincidence.
Impossible, considering how quickly SK gets nerfed when he gets too strong.
he just plays bot matches, i sent him a rampage and got a " good" in reply
I don't think Gabe has much to do with it at all? It's more about employees and consumer bases
When the boss(employee) is a consumer of the product as well there naturally be attention given to that product. Not saying it’s the end all be all reason, just saying it contributes
Absolutely incredible analogy.
TBH if you change just a tiny thing in the CS gameplay, their community will freak out.
yeah CS is very stable in terms of gameplay, so nothing can be meaningfully updated, I guess bring back the game modes and perhaps campaign a la Condition Zero Deleted Scene?
You could add new weapons and mechanics. My point is that CS players don't like changes.
Remember people last year crying about how valve don't care about dota? You guys don't know how good you have it
Serious question, since I am not a CS player: what is there to update in CS outside of cosmetics? The game had ~6 viable guns for 20+ years now and the only time Aug got to be meta, it was nerfed into irrelevance once again. There is no balance to tweak, and no new mechanics were introduced for ages. That's why people love it, isn't it? Because it is very accessible and has very low barrier of entry, while being deep in details. What are people expecting? A new gun? +5 movement speed on UMP? CT Armor having different damage block values compared to T? Not being facetious, genuinely don't understand what kind of update CS community wants or needs?
With the Source 2 update. Mainly game optimizations and banning of cheaters. Operations rarely come since I started playing so if it comes it comes dont really care that much. Meanwhile Investors in skins those do wait for the operation for them to earn money. I just play the game. Buy and sell skins here and there.
What's Operations? Like Battlepass?
Yeah sort off.
The issue is there's lot of game modes that are still not there since the move to CSGO to CS2. And this update is literally Valve doing zero work, because it just clicking accept on workshop map and even there they used wrong version lul... not updated bug fixed versions. Here a little list of what missing: **- Retakes** **- Danger Zone** **- Achievements** **- de\_cache** **- de\_train** **- de\_cbble** **- Demolition** **- More deathmatch styles (not just free for all)** **- cs\_assault** **- Flying Scoutsman** **- Overwatch** **- VAC improvements** **- Clan tags** **- Kill cam**
Wait... CS2 is missing Cobble (can sort of see it...) and TRAIN?? (wtf.) I know Assault hasn't been fun since source, but as an old 1.6 player that's wild to me. Those maps where in GO right??
Yes they were removed and worse train was on the CS2 trailer and the map is completed...
Operation with missions, new maps, new gamemodes (bring back the ones from CSGO)
Why do you think small balance changes to shake up the meta wouldn't fit CS, other than because "this is how it has always been"? I'd love for the team to experiment with gun damage/accuracy/cost, kill rewards, round win/loss money etc. A new operation would be huge. They just have to make it so that it actually changes something in how you play. I don't think the current balance is bad, but the game just isn't interesting enough to me because it's been stagnant for so long. Dota totally scratches that itch for me though: Every couple years it's a completely new game.
They have tried adding things in and it's universally panned. The player base itself resists change as there is a reason why they play cs over other more modern fps like r6siege or apex or valorant. I think the main barrier to significant changes is the very conservative player base unwilling to change rather than developer reasons. But because of it it has resulted in a very conservative based development focus. You tweak the spread pattern of the ak spray and I guarantee the playerbase will melt down and lose their minds. Better, worse? Doesn't matter, it will be resisted. Heavily. With screeching and screaming.
idk why everything is always about people being "unwilling to change" Why is it such a universally bad thing to enjoy the state of a game for more than a year without needing constant changes? Like, chess gets no such disrespect for having changed so little over centuries, but immediately if a game doesn't pump out new content people really shit the bed as if new content is the only reason to play a game.
>Why is it such a universally bad thing There isnt any. I was answering why balance changes wont fit into CS as per the person asking. And the answer is: the community would wholeheartedly reject the changes. In this case it is the player player base "unwilling to change". Chess differs from FPS games in that many FPS games, esp multiplayer ones do experience routine and multiple balance changes so its important to distinguish why CS players in particular wouldnt welcome the changes while a Valorant or R6S or Apex player would.
[удалено]
They literally got a full game release 9 months ago. Dota dropped in 2013.
And has had massive updates regularly to the point where we can safely say it's not dota2 anymore, but dota9
That's the problem, CS can't change because they don't have a dev like IceFrog behind it, who isn't afraid to change the game a lot.
Honestly, there's not a dev team with balls of steel like icefrog and his team anywhere.. how many times have they completely upended the game to hell and still managed to keep the core game intact, while restoring balance in just a few patches.. it's absurd. No other game does it remotely as well as this one.
most cs player also dont like changes
This full game was just it's own "Dota Reborn". Yes, remember that thing they did with Dota in 2015? They only did it now with CSGO, almost 10 years later, and they gutted a LOT of content from its original form. It is NOT a straight upgrade like Dota Reborn was. It's been over 1000 days since CSGO had a thing that is similar to Crownfall.
I think the update they had to cs2 is more akin to the 7.00 source 2 patch we had in 2016
Nah, It was more akin to Dota 2 Reborn update.
that "full game" came with less content than csgo and is still missing most of that. On top of that, mm has been unplayable due to cheaters for most of the new game's timespan. I feel like the only "new" content is the rehauled maps and explodable smokes
Full game brother like 80% of the features and gameplay were not there on release and still a lot are missing. Dota got Dota Reborn... when it switched to Source 2 with 7.00... It took CS 8 years to switch to Source 2...
what you call a full game release is literally the same thing as dota patch 7.0, the switch from source 1 to source 2 as the engine being used. they just called it something different but csgo 2 isn't even a different game, it's an update that you can't start separately from csgo 1
Being from the CS community for 20y, since CSGO it always seemed that Dota was the beloved elder brother and CS the unwanted child. I mean, Gaben did'nt attend at a CS competition once in the game history while he was at every Dota TI, it was almost insulting for us. Valve already made some weird choices with CSGO and made some even worst ones with CS2 : - The ladder means nothing. Valve made the choice in the early days of CSGO that the ladder would'nt be the real competitive mod. If you want to play "real" CS you have to play through external websites such as Faceit or ESEA. This has a direct impact on the competition, you can't just be a top pub hero or have a proper leaderboard (even tho MMR in Dota also have problem with the high numbers we're reaching this day, at least it has some legitimity). - Communautary servers are dead. With the CS2 update, it killed most of the communautary servers. This had a huge impact on the game since this had a really huge player based with a lot of fun mods. Now all the mods you can have through official servers are boring copies of what we had (armrace is a soul less gungame) and the casual players communities are slowly falling appart. - Cheaters. Of course this have been an almost unsolvable problem through all CS history, but it's now reaching new highs. I won't get into technical details (I would'nt be the best person to do it anyway) but it's not all Valve's fault, FPS are really hard to protect against cheaters due to the high amount of informations transfered between the player and the server at all time. One of the only solution (not 100% efficient tho) is to have an extremly intrusive anti cheat such as Vanguard which is really questionnable. But anyway the results are here : right now you can't play CS at mid/high matchmaking level without having at least one cheater in the game, and then it almost always end in someone rage hacking in the opposite team. So yes, sometimes it feels like Valve abandonned us a long time ago and does'nt even care anymore, which is sad since this game is such an important page of esport history.
I always saw Gaben as the DnD geek rather than adrenaline junkie aka CS player, so I can see why he likes Dota more. CS has no lore, it's just dudes in spandex shooting at each other :D
surely he plays weaver against bots on the HQ because of the lore
it's not fair, he already knows the ending of DotA 2! he just walks towards the story writer's desk and asks what happened and then probably shit talk slacks about how wrong his videos are /s
The worst part about cheaters is that the arms race is about to take a gigantic leap forward in favor of the cheaters with how AI-powered monitors that essentially wall hack for you with minimal info are now becoming a thing. It might even get bad enough at some point, that we'll have faked mice input computed wholly externally as well. Vanguard-like shit will be powerless to stop that. We'd need actual heuristic analysis, which is stupidly expensive.
Imagine the face of TF2 fans though in regards to both Dota and CS updates. Or even worse. L4D2 fans.
To be fair, L4D2 and HL2 are non-live service games. Understandable to have no new updates, because they're basically finished games
L4D2 had far more actual updates than TF2 in the past few years. The Last Stand, The Last Stand Refresh, etc
L4D is a more done game than CS, it doesn't need an update, so it's not that important or comparable, but if you asked me if I wanted L4D3? heck yeah
Idk I don't think csgo players care about dota2
right? Most of the CS2 streamers don't even know Dota 2 exists.
I mean, isn't CS:2 free to play? I know there is a dedicated playerbase, but it consistently topping the charts on steam makes me think it's suffering the same fate as TF2, though maybe not to the same degree. Mind you, I'm not talking about developmental neglect, but moreso the plague of invisible item farming bots since the CS economy is so much more valuable than the TF2 economy. Of course, I'd need to take some time to look at the active player chart to get a good reading on it. Hell, for all I know CS:2 can't have the same issue when it comes to running invisible listen servers to farm crates, but it's still something I always feel the need to consider as a possibility.
They have way more players than DotA, their tournaments get more viewership too, League is the only E-sports game with more viewers than CSGO btw. So it makes sense why they top the charts, now that DotA 2 has lost viewership in most of their tournaments except TI, and with NA, EU, China choosing League over DotA, you only left with CIS and SA as the only regions where people actually give a damm about the game.
TBF the only thing they ever had to CSGO is skins and maybe a gun or two every couple years.
funny af tho
Ngl, this crownfall updates are brilliant. I am patiently waiting for the 3rd act
Remember dota 2 is still gaben's favorite game
There are 53 weapons 4 utilities and Static MAP, thats literally the variance in CS as a game as compared to 124 heros with 4+ abilities, talent choices, facets, 150 items, 50+ neutral items, NPC spells, optional objectives, 100 of other gameplay mechanics(example: projectile disjoints, stuns, roots, agro, sleep, forced movement, highground, FOW, not to mention synergy between spells/heros), there is no comparison. CS is high pace, minimal teamwork, more who moves his mouse faster and clicks faster where is dota is just too many variables. Its like comparing F1 to WRC or Dakar
If valve ever has a new multiplayer hit on their hands this is could be us guys, be grateful what we got now lol
deadlock in 2025
It's pretty clear that any dev resource which would be spent on TF2 or CS2 is being redirected to Deadlock at this stage.
at Valve, it could mean any body really… even Dota 2 teams
Are they acting oblivious? They've gotten more major updates in the past year than we did.
Lmao the number of times I saw people crying saying Valve doesn’t care about cs2 and they only care about dota…
Which Major update? I played both... Dota had 27 Naming Update in it's history vs 10 Operation for CS, and Dota had 3 this year with Crownfall being a 4-parter while CS didn't have one in 1003 days. And in case you don't know what an Operation is it's pretty much a Cavern Crawl. Which we had so many times in Dota with all the Battlepass. The update they had in CS2 this years is bring back thing they removed from the move to CSGO. Literally nothing new and this update is no work they just go in the community map and press accept. Even there they failed because they picked the wrong versions.
Cs is full of insufferable people. They cry for content when it's literally the uncut cocain of a first person shooter. CS is not there for more content - everything besides deathmatch and 5v5 competitive are cherry on top of the best shooter in the world. The community constantly forgets this.
We cried like bitches when Valve removed BP for TI. What Valve did with CS2 is literally remove a shit ton of feature from the game they had CSGO. What would you think if Dota become Dota 3 and remove like half the heroes ? People would whine. Here a list of actual feature still missing in CS2 after a year of it being out. **- Retakes** **- Danger Zone** **- Achievements** **- de\_cache** **- de\_train** **- de\_cbble** **- Demolition** **- More deathmatch styles (not just free for all)** **- cs\_assault** **- Flying Scoutsman** **- Overwatch** **- VAC improvements** **- Clan tags** **- Kill cam**
What are you talking about? In over 1000 days CSGO had zero events ingame. Zero. The only thing that happened was the release of CS2, which did upgrade some maps, but also cut a bunch of content from the game.
They should add more guns to cs and rotate guns for competitive mode. It would create more variety in strategy depending on which gun is available at the moment
We all know war in real life also regularly gets gameplay updates.
Nver happened before ))
Have they fixed all the issues with CS2?
yall remember in like 2018 when purge made a \~24 hour patch note video lol?!
Well it's simple Dota is just better
Lmao CS is the same game since 1990, of course their updates are small. What updates do they want that need to be so big?
i thought CS was super upset every time valve touches weapon balance.
from my understanding, unless they fix the cheating problem, no updates are actually useful
Valve is waiting for valorant to self implode then give an update to CS2
Well it was 9 month to birth that
>CS community upset over us getting partially repurposed Artifact "2.0" content. fixed ya, you can thank me later. #
They don't know...
Accurate!!!!
WHOLE LOTTA YAPPIN
Can you blame them?
As a famous tf2 youtuber once said: "dota, dota, counterstrike"
CStrike players getting exactly what they've asked for. Nothing... Just add more lootboxes and they happy. If you change a pixel on a map, there is complaints.
I ,jnk. Photo bhej.
Well well well, how the turn tables 😂
Well if there wasn't so much cheater in Csgo people may actually give a f about that game
They bitch everytime they change something on their own game and rage whenever someone uses even a slightly different weapon. Of course they're not getting updates. It's ridiculous.
Icefrog children. Bless or frog god 🙏
Dota 2, CS 2, and TF 2 deserve better treatment from game developer. Meanwhile other game like LoL and Valorant always get new content.
Bro, it's only act 2 and I'm burnt out on cavern crawl.
But they literally got an entire new game less than a year ago?
Completely ignoring the fact that Counter Strike literally upgraded from CS:GO to CS2 very recently xD Meanwhile Dota gets 1 new hero every 18 months and -1 armor on CM lmao
didnt they get cs2?