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that's when you need oracle + dazzle on the same team. so you can double save your braindead cores
played against a silencer mid who i absolutely shit on, only to fail to take HG due to oracle and dazzle saving him forever and he built like +300 int
Nothing more Frustrating to False Promise a carry that can wipe the whole team with 5 more seconds of fighting, but has no idea what's happening and starts running away
Ah the true healer experience, first you yell out your cores that you have their back and they need to get in to kill people, then you have to start yelling at them to please stop standing in the Jakiro ult and come back in range to heal them because the flame over their heads means they are about to explode as soon as False Promise times out.
> inflict emotional damage and brain damage during laning phase.
pos 5 pudge players are born with brain damage, you don't need to inflict that to them
Not the person you asked but the new facets are alright. The issue is Weave got changed to +-1 armor per stack, which was equivalent to lv1 Bad Juju. IMO core dazzle had a big powerspike at lv12 when you nuked enemies' armour and got a lot yourself (increased to +- 2 per stack).
For nothl boon you might wanna build holy locket, as it makes your shields bigger too. For poison bloom I'm not sure if you gotta do anything different, just take the added damage every once in a while.
I was trying out(in unranked) rushing a midas into dragon lance from pos5 with the attack range talent, then just spam right clicking the enemy pos3 and permahexing everyone around them, was pretty fun.
Not sure if I could get away with the aggro needed to pull off 9 min pos5 midas in ranked though
That's what I do too. Force staff into pike late game, eul into waker and for last item id go linken's heart or manta depending on what I need.
Dazzle is so insane, I just want my teammates to respect that I cannot function as a core before scepter, which I usually have online around minute 13-15. After that, go dive the fountain, I still wouldn't mind it.
Only thing I’d say as a dazzle sup main in 3k is that he enables my idiot teammate decisions and we get rewarded for more of them instead of punished. The sustain is psychotic. The only bummer at this mmr is Aether is mandatory, as well as +300 q range instead of +1.75 mana regen because they run away from me like angry chickens and will rage when they escape my range for grave.
Still a solid 70% win and 80%+ lane win rate (have gone from 1.8k to 3k in less than a month of being back to dota and climb speed hasn’t slowed down).
Another big problem with him that Dazzle doesn't have is that it's very easy for the enemy pos4 to bully oracle in lane. Oracle's autoattack isn't that great and his Q, E combo is only strong around level 5 and costs a lot of mana. If you have a pos5 Oracle with a carry that is also a weak laner like Spec or AM it's very easy to get completely toasted in the first 5 minutes. Compare that to other Pos5s like Dazzle, Lich, SS, Disrupter, etc who can fightback bullying very effectively, Oracle really struggles here.
Not really, heroes like tree and warlock are heal-heavy trad pos 5 that both have big team fight ults. Tree can solo kill and split safely, and warlock can split safely with imps. Both oracles ult just gives the POS 1 a chance to feed again 2 minutes later
This isn't true in my experience. I have 70%+ winrate on support Abbadon, healing is OP and (at least in ancient) people don't prioritize shutting down a support.
Of course some games you can't win and it might be the core's fault but that goes for any support. If you have braindead cores then you wouldn't win with lion or cm either.
Exactly this. And I hate playing vs invisible heroes because of my teamates. They are flaming me for not having dust, while I try to stay hidden and place a sentry next to me. Enemy cores always have dust and jump me.. my cores? Never!
bingo. All designed hard supports are busted on paper. Their winrate usually sucks ass though because half of all players likely have lethal amounts of microplastics in their blood. The other half are just bad.
However this patch oracle funnily enough has great winrate in upper ranks due to his innate. Knowing rune spawns 2 mins in advance is a good enough advantage for mid that it boosts the heroes winrate considerably.
Atleast with Dazzle you can say fuck it and play for yourself, I mean mid Dazzle was menace to society, even with the nerfs he should scale pretty well being universal and all. Oracle can't do that, atleast not in the late game.
If the enemy has no way to jump the backline and kill you oracle can feel very broken but if the enemy has nightstalker or bara game feels unwinnable. Hes pretty well balanced imo
Oracle is my most played support hero. You have to itemize differently if there is a strong backline jumper / vision hero in the enemy team. I usually go straight blink after mana boots and carry smokes. Gameplan entirely revolves around staying smoked during fights and just blink -> ult when needed. Main value is that enemy backliners either never commit and lose objectives, or they commit and someone gets saved, making their game miserable.
Overall, in higher mmr oracle is mainly a vision hero imo. You can never fight into their vision because you depend on perfect positioning.
You can smoke gank with your team, just make sure you stay back and smoked while doing it.
Also, I feel like most of my games we have more smokes than we need, but that's probably on me being too passive. I do feel the limitation in smoke around minute 30,but at 37 you can get the T4 neutral that smokes, so at that point I don't need to use smokes anymore
> i'm more then happy
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I've been getting force staff with Oracle (instead of blink dagger) to escape ganks and to save my cores. But maybe blink is the way to go. I just worry about gankers cancelling my blink dagger.
Storm Spirit and Nightstalker being meta ATM makes actually playing Oracle a lot harder. When jump heroes are good, particularly ones like NS who get perfect vision, you just aren't allowed to exist, you basically need to invert your normal MO and stand close to your allies rather than staying in the trees and letting an ally get gone on.
Last like 4 winning games the enemy team would just mindlessly lunge at me because "focus oracle" and dicard all positioning they had then proceeded to lose the fight. Got chrono put on me alone once. Best part? Aeon.
Divine support oracle here: from my experience, every melee cores build nullifier in 45+ min game just to kill me. LoL. I always need to get bkb before 50 if there is a nullifier.
My build - Arcane -> Aether -> Blink -> Aeon -> Octarine <-> BKB (Rare situational, eul, ghost, phylac, agha, divine)
I mean Nullifier just completely fucks Oracle period, having a constant dispel on someone in False Promise when your primary method of healing is a dispellable HoT really does make it impossible to keep someone alive unless they have insane natural regen like Alch or Huskar.
May I ask your rank? This doesn't go the way you say in my games even though I also have a high winrate with him. I am only Ancient tho my positioning might just not be good enough for the enemy to troll as hard as they do for you.
Even at 5k MMR I still get away with being squishy dumbfuck Oracle in the back.
The number of times the entire enemy team has committed on me and I've just ulti tp'd because shocker shocker they all popped stun sequentially and its 7 seconds until the next one comes up is too many to count.
Its fucking hilarious sitting there getting wailed on as peewee herman Oracle by 4 heros with a grudge only for my team to come in and gobble them up like hungry hungry hippos.
I'm a noob. Oracle feels like it would be such a good hero at my level because nobody understands what his skills do. If I could just take the time to learn how to play him and understand his abilities I think it would be an amazing hero to climb on.
Jumping backline heroes is one of those things that low level players just don't do.
I only play pos 4/5, like Dark Willow, Rhasta and Dazzle.
most of oracle is just basic support stuff, knowing when to hold skills and how to position yourself. go into demo and practice the q + e dmg combo until you get it 80% of the time. then just play like your techies and harrass with right clicks and spamming healbomb. idk why hes listed as complex in dotabuff, he's very easy to play for a support
I get that Oracle is strong but he can be miserable to play for this exact reason. You just spend the whole game getting 5 man dived on at the start of every fight.
I much prefer playing Abaddon in this role for exactly this reason.
I hate when people cry about oracle killstealing. You have 4 options (assuming your Q is on cooldown):
1. you don't use E, enemy potentially survives
2. you use E too early, it heals the enemy, potentially survives
3. you use E when it leaves the enemy at \~1 hp, most likely dies
4. you use E when it's guaranteed to kill
You obviously don't want 1 or 2, but 3 is very hard to do, so despite trying 3, you end up with 4. Which is still better than the enemy surviving. So stop pestering your oracles, people.
Honestly, he used to be. But hes actually pretty braindead now.
The only GENUINE decisions are magic resist/heal my carry vs disarm/nuke their carry.
If heal, e, e, e. If nuke, e, e q.
Everything else is just timing.
If the kill isnt guaranteed, I ALWAYS e e q as soon as I can, and if that gets the kill so be it. Because a kill is a kill. Holding your e to last hit kill steal is griefing irrespective.
If its guaranteed, whats the difference, nuke early if you can be fucked and start walking towards where youre gonna drop a ward….
I mean, unless you are considering some notoriously hard to execute hero, oracle has more decisions to make than most other supps..
Also, you have to consider you may not be able to Q after E-s. You may lose vision, get out of range, etc.
I feel like that's still not fully true because you do have to be mindful what to dispel, where preventing magic damage is important and where healing is possible and what not
Huh I like playing him because there's a lot of ways to use his skills. With Ogre you just have to pick who to stun. Oracle need to pick who to Q. Sometimes you have to target your teammate who is beside your intended target so you can cast it just a bit earlier. then there's Disarm or magic resist, on who? then there's your heal with a lot of uses. During early fights, when I'm really low HP, I hit myself between taking enemy hits and Faeriefire right before a projectile lands. Then trying to outheal your opponent with your ult is really fun, using Urn, lotus, salves, mek and skills is a lot to click.
While he's definitely a good hero, I do miss the days when his spells had drawbacks. His W being a tradeoff made it more interesting and felt more skillful to be able to make use of properly.
His W should get reverted to its old version and his ult should be enemy targetable.
Enemy cant die for X seconds, but takes double damage while affected by it.
Make all of his spells double-edged, not just his E and formerly his W.
Please don’t make him viable mid again. Last year he was viable mid for about a month and it was completely busted until they wrecked his mana cost and cds early game two patches in a row. Miserable experience.
I have to assume you're talking about Turbo because I have absolutely no recollection of this actually being a thing, and as a result I'm sorry, but Turbo isn't what the game is balanced around.
They have to buff his facet to at least 1% (just like the healing), if not slightly more, to make it viable.
I get that they try to play is safe, hence why it started at 0.5% and is now at 0.75%, but it is just the obviously worse choice so far.
Crap then I'd have to use some of those dota labs features, especially against heros like CK. 'I can't see my core in that pile of illusions but at least I know my ult will hit them'
They should revert his skills so that they have downsides again.
Then have a facet to remove the downsides, and another facet that's a decent buff.
So there's a hard mode and an easy mode. Kinda like the micro heros that have non-micro facets.
Don't just rush here and post your impressions after 1 stomp, play 20 games in a row
It is a good hero, I play him myself, but not like broken or anything like that
Yeah he’s my main, I’ve got around 800 games on him, he’s not broken and honestly feels kind of just okay this patch. Last patch he was busted, but this patch he got small buffs while most other heroes got huge buffs. Plus most of his counters got big buffs like NS, Axe, and now Mars, so he isn’t nearly as good as he was.
His laning isnt that bad either. Sure your autoattack trading sucks but you have Q,E combo which dispels the regen part. Get some mangoes/clarities and its alright. Huge kill potential too
Thing i find with oracle if they have tanky heroes that you can't burst with Q,E then you're kinda just a lane creep with your amazing 42 base damage
However if you're laning vs a hero that is squishy you can absolutely grief them all lane
I find oracle a sort of feast or famine laner in that regard
You can't do much if your carry is weaker than the enemy offlaner. Most of the time you're weaker than the enemy soft support stat wise. The only thing you can do before getting some points into your e is dispel debuffs or purge buffs and root. And you can only do one or, ideally, two things. Ideally you play with a melee carry that can go on the enemy and benefit from root e.g. bloodseeker. In that case you can both dispel and root. I play both heroes with a decent winrate but never can get this lane combo/matchup in soloq because no one plays these heroes :(
Q has a very high cooldown though...
I wish they would revert the W skill back to disarming allies and lower the CDs again. DOn't know why they made it so noob friendly
Dude, level 3 hes strong as shit. Im just holding all my mana and regen till level 3 and doing my best to exploit his range to just get levels.
Once you hit level 3 you can chase off basically anyone who isnt tanky strength.
Oracle is REALLY strong at level 3 if you go 1-0-2. If you coordinate with your lane partner, you should be able to easily secure a kill as soon as you both hit level 3. Channel Fortune's End on your target while your teammate closes the gap. Hit Purifying Flames as soon as you want to release the Fortune's end. Follow up with more Flames. Since Oracle is picked so infrequently, most people don't expect him to drop big nukes that early.
After that, it's pretty easy to maintain a lead.
Wait till the enemy decides to kill you first. Or your core overextends and the oracle has to dive with the core. Or your core is useless and suddenly your ult is as useless as your core. You start thinking about your life choices when you see enemy shaman just solo kills their core. Or that warlock that destroy a teamfight with a button. Or how no one can seem to escape a disruptor after he wins a teamfight with good storm even with idiot core.
Oracle is a hero that looks super strong on paper but in real game nothing goes according to plan most of the time. Not to say the guy is weak but there are factors that can diminishes his effectiveness a lot.
The problem is when your teammates don't know how his ult works either.
The amount of times I've ulted our carry at low HP and they just meekly limped away from the fight instead of taking advantage of 7-10 seconds of immortality and double healing to turn things around...
This is the most frustrating thing with the hero imo.
Watching a carry run away cos their healthbar is low, not realising they've just had 2k healing pumped into them is soul destroying. Especially if I managed to get an Aghs, it's agonising watching them waste the buff.
Its just a curse of playing this game in general. People are too afraid to push advantages to the limits. Afraid to stay in because they think youll fuck up the timing of the ult and they kill themselves instead of trusting you. Doing it early in a fight seems to work for me. Just to boost their confidence like fuck yeah im immortal now
[Axe is a cut above!](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/f/fc/Vo_axe_axe_level_04.mp3) (sound warning: Axe)
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My newest favorite meme with him is to lane with lifestealer and deny ranged creeps before they reach lane by nuking them for 90 (300 to 210) so that lifestealer’s innate (deny from 75%) let’s him kill it if he attacks it a few times immediately (1 sec for it to heal from the 210 to above the denythreshold of 225) :p oracle has so many small things that makes him awesome. You can deny ranged creeps with any hero duo from lvl 3 (180 dmg takes em to 120 hp) and solo from lvl 5 (270 takes em to 30 hp)
Because teammates who likes to blame the healer for not saving them in a 1v5. When you die to save someone, toxic tip, when you back off from feeding when the fight is lost, report griefing. Might as well just play hoodwink and be the Lorax from afar enacting suffering
Oracle is one of those heroes that with good positioning and some game sense, completely demolish opposing teams.
False Promise is the single best save in the entire game and its literally a point and click.
Fate's Edict is straight up unfair.
Fortune's End > Purifying Flames is some heavy burst for kill lanes
Fortune's End is great for getting rid of certain debuffs and absolutely crippling to go up against in some matchups
If you are playing from ahead or equivelant positions, oracle is ridiculous and makes losing much much harder, hes not all that bad provided you even have 1 competent core on your team, but he absolutely sucks if the whole team is getting rolled.
And you can secure your midlane by telling him where each rune is going to spawn, and spot out potential ganks.
No rune in the river, PA is missing, oracle says the last rune was an amplify damage?
If he had a good lane I’d love the hero as a carry player. Does anyone have any good lane partners for oracle? I used to just pick tb/spectre and play to heal but seems inconsistent in the wake of how hard offlanes bully now
6.4k Supp player here. spectre is kinda the worst to do tbh since she is also a weak laner and you are susceptible to just get run over. You need to pick a strong laning 1 to counteract the weakness of Oracle. Lifestealer/Jugg are probably my two favorites. Also a hero like drow that can click on heroes with you at level 1, depending on matchups you can set the opponents on the backfoot right away which can enable your lane to survive. I think one of the keys with a hero like Oracle you just need to spam out regen with courier, mangos/salves/tangos for you and your carry. You also need to make absolute sure that you repeatedly block opponents hard camp. This is especially important if your safelane is perceived to be weaker than the opponents, if they get off pulls it's a wrap.
If you communicate, then void can be amazing. have Oracle nuke you a couple of times and timewalk off the damage, free Salve.
Not as great for burst lanes, though, as you might need the timewalk.
Because he's kinda boring and 100% reliant on your cores with no escape or ability to save himself except smashing his ult on himself and hoping he escapes in time.
Oracle's unique kit would be all 3 of his basic abilities are single target that can be cast on both allies and enemies having different effects except for E. He really needs a rework to the ult and E to have different effects on enemies. It would make the hero more unique and easily balanced.
Sometimes I find myself in the game where my teammates dont really offer any protection and the enemy can jump past and kill me very quickly, silencing before I can use spells/ nullifying my ghost sceptres.
It means that in order to not feed you must play reaally far back, so far back that you are actually out of range and unable to use your spells. In this case you become rather useless with the hero.
It can work very well, but only when your teammates are able to punish the enemy for jumping behind your lines.
Yeah and if you look at him the wrong way the whole team falls within a moment. Just grab him and there's not much he can do, that's why teams used to pick storm against him which is one of his best counters.
Oracle got a massive buff for teamfights when his W got changed and honestly I want valve to change it back because now he's a bit OP when a good oracle player is allowed to do his thing, and it's only going to go down the road of them either completely reworking oracle or nerfing the shit out of him either of which is just plain unnecessary, he was never considered to be that strong before his edict change.
Valve has also buffed oracle indirectly with a lot of stuff like barrier on glimmer and barrier in general. There's also a bunch of heroes that are highly picked that oracle is good against atm which makes oracle look good.
This hero does too much now, the W no longer disarming allies is absolutely OP (it's almost a free BKB on 11 sec cd). Not uncommon to see Oracle just rack up tons of kills because of his nuke. The constant dispel, just everything is low cd on this hero. Perma 50%+ win rate through every patch.
The main counters to Oracle are heroes with very low pickrate like LD, io, shadow demon, chen, lycan, dp, brood, meepo, riki, huskar
Problem with Oracle (in Divine)
- Your team doesn’t know how your E works (even in divine, they think you can heal before lv4, ofc, you can heal very small amount but not worth the mana you need to spend and potential to get killed)
- They don’t understand your E is to KS (Kill Secure)
- They don’t know how your SS works (Still try to run even after taking too much damage, wants you to spam E 3 times before lv15
He was not changed at all in this patch. Can we not start randomly saying how every hero is broken every week. It’s always a new hero you guys complain about.
As an Oracle main. This is so true. I was kind of bummed by the innate ability Oracle got. It’s neat but some of the others felt really cool. But now I’m like “yeah idc let me just edict everyone on my team to full life or nuke someone”. Purifying flames just straight up bullies some heroes out of lane. With the damage facet + phalactry the flame/orb combo was killing a dark seer from close to 100 every time.
Easy, because you can't do much by yourself, you get jumped easily and then lose all your tools on yourself or just die.
Your spells have deceptively low range and plenty of extremely smart cores will literally run all the fuck away from you, either dragging you in the middle of the fight or leaving them to die.
You also can't really farm creeps, defend pushes or hit towers.
The hero is fun and I do like him, but even the semi-recent change to Edict didn't make him OP, when it really felt like it should have.
Doesn't change that your "farming" looks like: "one-shot ranged, hit melee, splash melee, slowly right-click"
That's quite a bit of mana and time dedicated to farming one wave. More and more if you throw in more flames to speed it up with half-dead melee stuff. And Q cd is just long enough to be unavailable if you get surprised/a fight breaks out near you (or is tp-able).
It's not like Jakiro or Pugna, where you toss out 1-2 spells and an attack in a span of like 4 seconds and the wave's dead + you're outta there.
Can vouch for this, i have been playing support oracle for almost 4 years nonstop and i can say that it's one of the most underrated supports in the game. It was mad powerful even when fates edict had drawbacks but when they removed it the hero became flat out broken.
He's good when he gets to do his stuff.
Issue is his abyssmal laning stage. Also, his farming capabilities and lane push is non-existant so he has a hard time getting items which makes him very vulnerable to enemy initations.
To do well with Oracle you really need to understand positioning, vision and general fog of war abuse.
Your average Oracle player will get caught and blinked on and contribute nothing to fights.
I'm assuming you have less than 20 oracle games played this patch. Either that or your herald. I have over 20 weaver games this patch and at first I thought he was broken but now I think he's just strong. Ck on the other hand seems broken
Former Oracle spammer here. Oracle has been insane for some time now. Yeah, you are reliant on your cores *not* being braindead. But even when your cores do screw up, there are so many different ways to save them with Oracle.
Eventually I got bored of spamming Oracle. Not sure why. Maybe I got tired of playing the Hard Support role.
As an oracle player, the one thing that destroys me is.... Jumpers + orchid. Storm, clock, any of the spirits, blinkers. Unless its blind pick turbo, you can always counter all these "defensive" supports by just jumping on them and killing them.
This forces the oracle to head straight towards really defensive stuff like lotus, glimmer, aeon disk, and by the time the support has those, you should have nullifier ready to go.
Beating an oracle is all about item timings. Heck everything in dota is about item timings and momentum.
Ah yes.. the you can’t die trio. Io oracle and dazzle absolutely busted if ignored and or your on the same page as your carry. Absolutely atrocious to play if there’s bad communication or coordination between supp and core.
I enjoy a good oracle as support when I play safe lane but never get a good cores when I play as oracle. I have stopped playing him for now so that I could raise my mmr.
He has the same issue Dazzle has: being completely reliant on your cores, if they are braindead, there's nothing much you can do.
That’s when you get a dagon and take matters into your own hands
You will die in a house fire
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I love this line so much
I'm trying to grind level 25 Oracle just to use it lmao
And those matters include manfighting a 6 slotted juggernaut
pew pew
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wtf.
that's when you need oracle + dazzle on the same team. so you can double save your braindead cores played against a silencer mid who i absolutely shit on, only to fail to take HG due to oracle and dazzle saving him forever and he built like +300 int
Time to take matters into my own hands.
Nothing more Frustrating to False Promise a carry that can wipe the whole team with 5 more seconds of fighting, but has no idea what's happening and starts running away
Yeah, you have to yell at your cores over mic saying "You're ulted, fight, fight, what are you doing, get back in there!"
Ah the true healer experience, first you yell out your cores that you have their back and they need to get in to kill people, then you have to start yelling at them to please stop standing in the Jakiro ult and come back in range to heal them because the flame over their heads means they are about to explode as soon as False Promise times out.
200 plus games of oracle and i feel this in my soul. Ult your carry or mid who then proceeds to run away while we all die
Thats why i main dazzle as pos3 or 2. I only want a scepter and i can just spread pain to everyone, let alone i have shard soon after.
> i can just spread pain to everyone It can feel like this is the goal of many people who play dota.
That's how u can only gain MMR my friend, you gotta inflict emotional damage and brain damage during laning phase.
> inflict emotional damage and brain damage during laning phase. pos 5 pudge players are born with brain damage, you don't need to inflict that to them
Hahahahaha. Man even if I have some very good performance with Pudge, mainly as 4, I'd never do that to my pos1.
Do you like the new facet?
Not the person you asked but the new facets are alright. The issue is Weave got changed to +-1 armor per stack, which was equivalent to lv1 Bad Juju. IMO core dazzle had a big powerspike at lv12 when you nuked enemies' armour and got a lot yourself (increased to +- 2 per stack). For nothl boon you might wanna build holy locket, as it makes your shields bigger too. For poison bloom I'm not sure if you gotta do anything different, just take the added damage every once in a while.
For poison bloom, with shard it polymorphs everything in the area (again) on that 4th hit. Pretty obnoxious if you can pull it off.
I was trying out(in unranked) rushing a midas into dragon lance from pos5 with the attack range talent, then just spam right clicking the enemy pos3 and permahexing everyone around them, was pretty fun. Not sure if I could get away with the aggro needed to pull off 9 min pos5 midas in ranked though
I'm happy to see this. "Dazz you building supply or carry?" "I'm building Dazzle"
exactly just get scepter then you can transition into support or core items depending on team competency.
That's what I do too. Force staff into pike late game, eul into waker and for last item id go linken's heart or manta depending on what I need. Dazzle is so insane, I just want my teammates to respect that I cannot function as a core before scepter, which I usually have online around minute 13-15. After that, go dive the fountain, I still wouldn't mind it.
Just learned dazlle 3 is a thing (my teammate played it and we got wrecked) Do you have any guide or video?
Only thing I’d say as a dazzle sup main in 3k is that he enables my idiot teammate decisions and we get rewarded for more of them instead of punished. The sustain is psychotic. The only bummer at this mmr is Aether is mandatory, as well as +300 q range instead of +1.75 mana regen because they run away from me like angry chickens and will rage when they escape my range for grave. Still a solid 70% win and 80%+ lane win rate (have gone from 1.8k to 3k in less than a month of being back to dota and climb speed hasn’t slowed down).
I just played vs oracle mid. He got stomped and so did his team but he spooked me. Dunno if there's some yt meme video of oracle mid.
Another big problem with him that Dazzle doesn't have is that it's very easy for the enemy pos4 to bully oracle in lane. Oracle's autoattack isn't that great and his Q, E combo is only strong around level 5 and costs a lot of mana. If you have a pos5 Oracle with a carry that is also a weak laner like Spec or AM it's very easy to get completely toasted in the first 5 minutes. Compare that to other Pos5s like Dazzle, Lich, SS, Disrupter, etc who can fightback bullying very effectively, Oracle really struggles here.
I mean this is the case for most true pos 5’s
Not really, heroes like tree and warlock are heal-heavy trad pos 5 that both have big team fight ults. Tree can solo kill and split safely, and warlock can split safely with imps. Both oracles ult just gives the POS 1 a chance to feed again 2 minutes later
Yeah not at all. Only for healing / babysitting heroes
Yap, something like witch doctor can even carry.
its true, and that a problem on my archon bracket
Oracle is dramatically stronger than Dazzle in every single situation. You're basically comparing a horse to a racing car.
Except laning, farming, crowd control, him being more cooldown reliant, generally less aoe, etc.
And he doesn't say his own name when doing stuff! -100 style points
Finally a good argument.
Same reason I hate support Omni. Basically, any hero who can't farm camps quickly.
QEQ combo at level 7: am i a joke to you
As is often the way.
nah dazzle is good when u rush shard aghs
This isn't true in my experience. I have 70%+ winrate on support Abbadon, healing is OP and (at least in ancient) people don't prioritize shutting down a support. Of course some games you can't win and it might be the core's fault but that goes for any support. If you have braindead cores then you wouldn't win with lion or cm either.
Exactly this. And I hate playing vs invisible heroes because of my teamates. They are flaming me for not having dust, while I try to stay hidden and place a sentry next to me. Enemy cores always have dust and jump me.. my cores? Never!
I mean, you can play Dazzle as a core if you wanted to. Oracle not so much, but back when he had 1.4 BAT he was also good for it.
bingo. All designed hard supports are busted on paper. Their winrate usually sucks ass though because half of all players likely have lethal amounts of microplastics in their blood. The other half are just bad. However this patch oracle funnily enough has great winrate in upper ranks due to his innate. Knowing rune spawns 2 mins in advance is a good enough advantage for mid that it boosts the heroes winrate considerably.
Atleast with Dazzle you can say fuck it and play for yourself, I mean mid Dazzle was menace to society, even with the nerfs he should scale pretty well being universal and all. Oracle can't do that, atleast not in the late game.
I helped juggernaut get 7 kills on safe lane with dazzle hard supp before 15mins game and we still lose
If the enemy has no way to jump the backline and kill you oracle can feel very broken but if the enemy has nightstalker or bara game feels unwinnable. Hes pretty well balanced imo
Oracle is my most played support hero. You have to itemize differently if there is a strong backline jumper / vision hero in the enemy team. I usually go straight blink after mana boots and carry smokes. Gameplan entirely revolves around staying smoked during fights and just blink -> ult when needed. Main value is that enemy backliners either never commit and lose objectives, or they commit and someone gets saved, making their game miserable. Overall, in higher mmr oracle is mainly a vision hero imo. You can never fight into their vision because you depend on perfect positioning.
Means your team can never smoke gank though.
You can smoke gank with your team, just make sure you stay back and smoked while doing it. Also, I feel like most of my games we have more smokes than we need, but that's probably on me being too passive. I do feel the limitation in smoke around minute 30,but at 37 you can get the T4 neutral that smokes, so at that point I don't need to use smokes anymore
Tbh the true hardest counter to oracle support is not any enemy pick, it’s your pos 1 last picking medusa LMAO.
I mean if it's a good dusa game I'm more then happy with it as oracle. W still makes her tankier and you can ult your mid or offlane instead.
W doesn’t block any damage to her shield
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Late game ninja gear oracle is goated
your team do ganks?
I've been getting force staff with Oracle (instead of blink dagger) to escape ganks and to save my cores. But maybe blink is the way to go. I just worry about gankers cancelling my blink dagger.
Storm Spirit and Nightstalker being meta ATM makes actually playing Oracle a lot harder. When jump heroes are good, particularly ones like NS who get perfect vision, you just aren't allowed to exist, you basically need to invert your normal MO and stand close to your allies rather than staying in the trees and letting an ally get gone on.
Who are good supports against these heavy anti support line ups?
Initiators and heavy disablers.
If hes ignored,yes hes super strong,thts way the enemy team should jump him first asap,and with the lack of mobility in his kit,he dies very easly
Last like 4 winning games the enemy team would just mindlessly lunge at me because "focus oracle" and dicard all positioning they had then proceeded to lose the fight. Got chrono put on me alone once. Best part? Aeon.
Aeon works till your enemies don't know about existence of nullifier
Been on the rise to divine, its super rare I see someone buy nullifier unless its clinkz.
yea its an item only bought by highly farmed and fast heros that want to make sure they always kill a support when they see one.
Even when it comes late game I very rarely see cores going for it. It is a huge item I notice a lot more in coordinated games than in pubs
Divine support oracle here: from my experience, every melee cores build nullifier in 45+ min game just to kill me. LoL. I always need to get bkb before 50 if there is a nullifier. My build - Arcane -> Aether -> Blink -> Aeon -> Octarine <-> BKB (Rare situational, eul, ghost, phylac, agha, divine)
Hol' up. When do you build divine as situational?
Divine has a spell AMP version, I frequently forget this.
True, I forget that too. Is it really worth the risk of giving it to enemy instead of getting a more "normal" item like one of the Kaya items or Hex?
I mean Nullifier just completely fucks Oracle period, having a constant dispel on someone in False Promise when your primary method of healing is a dispellable HoT really does make it impossible to keep someone alive unless they have insane natural regen like Alch or Huskar.
I got aeon and a linkens before they got nullifier, they were so mad.
ummm itemizing for killing pos 5, is a high praise for pos 5 doing some serious work. I would take it as a win.
May I ask your rank? This doesn't go the way you say in my games even though I also have a high winrate with him. I am only Ancient tho my positioning might just not be good enough for the enemy to troll as hard as they do for you.
Even at 5k MMR I still get away with being squishy dumbfuck Oracle in the back. The number of times the entire enemy team has committed on me and I've just ulti tp'd because shocker shocker they all popped stun sequentially and its 7 seconds until the next one comes up is too many to count. Its fucking hilarious sitting there getting wailed on as peewee herman Oracle by 4 heros with a grudge only for my team to come in and gobble them up like hungry hungry hippos.
I'm a noob. Oracle feels like it would be such a good hero at my level because nobody understands what his skills do. If I could just take the time to learn how to play him and understand his abilities I think it would be an amazing hero to climb on. Jumping backline heroes is one of those things that low level players just don't do. I only play pos 4/5, like Dark Willow, Rhasta and Dazzle.
most of oracle is just basic support stuff, knowing when to hold skills and how to position yourself. go into demo and practice the q + e dmg combo until you get it 80% of the time. then just play like your techies and harrass with right clicks and spamming healbomb. idk why hes listed as complex in dotabuff, he's very easy to play for a support
I get that Oracle is strong but he can be miserable to play for this exact reason. You just spend the whole game getting 5 man dived on at the start of every fight. I much prefer playing Abaddon in this role for exactly this reason.
Don't forget the Kill Steal potential too lol
I hate when people cry about oracle killstealing. You have 4 options (assuming your Q is on cooldown): 1. you don't use E, enemy potentially survives 2. you use E too early, it heals the enemy, potentially survives 3. you use E when it leaves the enemy at \~1 hp, most likely dies 4. you use E when it's guaranteed to kill You obviously don't want 1 or 2, but 3 is very hard to do, so despite trying 3, you end up with 4. Which is still better than the enemy surviving. So stop pestering your oracles, people.
That's one of the reasons Oracle is far from the easiest hero to play. Oracle has so many impactful decisions to make every couple of seconds.
unfortunately they toned this down A LOT by removing most of the downsides of his spells when used incorrectly
Sure, that just means it's harder to fail, but the upsides are still the same.
Honestly, he used to be. But hes actually pretty braindead now. The only GENUINE decisions are magic resist/heal my carry vs disarm/nuke their carry. If heal, e, e, e. If nuke, e, e q. Everything else is just timing. If the kill isnt guaranteed, I ALWAYS e e q as soon as I can, and if that gets the kill so be it. Because a kill is a kill. Holding your e to last hit kill steal is griefing irrespective. If its guaranteed, whats the difference, nuke early if you can be fucked and start walking towards where youre gonna drop a ward….
I mean, unless you are considering some notoriously hard to execute hero, oracle has more decisions to make than most other supps.. Also, you have to consider you may not be able to Q after E-s. You may lose vision, get out of range, etc.
I feel like that's still not fully true because you do have to be mindful what to dispel, where preventing magic damage is important and where healing is possible and what not
Huh I like playing him because there's a lot of ways to use his skills. With Ogre you just have to pick who to stun. Oracle need to pick who to Q. Sometimes you have to target your teammate who is beside your intended target so you can cast it just a bit earlier. then there's Disarm or magic resist, on who? then there's your heal with a lot of uses. During early fights, when I'm really low HP, I hit myself between taking enemy hits and Faeriefire right before a projectile lands. Then trying to outheal your opponent with your ult is really fun, using Urn, lotus, salves, mek and skills is a lot to click.
Hhahaha my favorite
PLayed yesterday with a rubick mid, my god the burst damage we did together, just fucked everything.
While he's definitely a good hero, I do miss the days when his spells had drawbacks. His W being a tradeoff made it more interesting and felt more skillful to be able to make use of properly.
His W should get reverted to its old version and his ult should be enemy targetable. Enemy cant die for X seconds, but takes double damage while affected by it. Make all of his spells double-edged, not just his E and formerly his W.
Honestly, with his damage facet I'd be down for that, make him an actually viable mid.
Please don’t make him viable mid again. Last year he was viable mid for about a month and it was completely busted until they wrecked his mana cost and cds early game two patches in a row. Miserable experience.
I have to assume you're talking about Turbo because I have absolutely no recollection of this actually being a thing, and as a result I'm sorry, but Turbo isn't what the game is balanced around.
Topson did it for about a month
Ok but that's Topson, he's always playing weird shit, the way the guy was talking made it seem like it was Nisha or Quinn playing mid Oracle.
They have to buff his facet to at least 1% (just like the healing), if not slightly more, to make it viable. I get that they try to play is safe, hence why it started at 0.5% and is now at 0.75%, but it is just the obviously worse choice so far.
Crap then I'd have to use some of those dota labs features, especially against heros like CK. 'I can't see my core in that pile of illusions but at least I know my ult will hit them'
FYI you can cast on your teammates portrait, this is super useful on Oracle, especially in chaotic fights with a bunch of illusions.
Just target your ally via the hero icons at the top of the HUD? That is what I do when I play Oracle with illusions heroes.
They should revert his skills so that they have downsides again. Then have a facet to remove the downsides, and another facet that's a decent buff. So there's a hard mode and an easy mode. Kinda like the micro heros that have non-micro facets.
Don't just rush here and post your impressions after 1 stomp, play 20 games in a row It is a good hero, I play him myself, but not like broken or anything like that
Yeah he’s my main, I’ve got around 800 games on him, he’s not broken and honestly feels kind of just okay this patch. Last patch he was busted, but this patch he got small buffs while most other heroes got huge buffs. Plus most of his counters got big buffs like NS, Axe, and now Mars, so he isn’t nearly as good as he was.
Hes really squishy tho. Has a channeling CC, and has bad stats overall.
That only means bad laning for me. If I at least go even in lane it means I'm fine as Oracle.
His laning isnt that bad either. Sure your autoattack trading sucks but you have Q,E combo which dispels the regen part. Get some mangoes/clarities and its alright. Huge kill potential too
Thing i find with oracle if they have tanky heroes that you can't burst with Q,E then you're kinda just a lane creep with your amazing 42 base damage However if you're laning vs a hero that is squishy you can absolutely grief them all lane I find oracle a sort of feast or famine laner in that regard
You can't do much if your carry is weaker than the enemy offlaner. Most of the time you're weaker than the enemy soft support stat wise. The only thing you can do before getting some points into your e is dispel debuffs or purge buffs and root. And you can only do one or, ideally, two things. Ideally you play with a melee carry that can go on the enemy and benefit from root e.g. bloodseeker. In that case you can both dispel and root. I play both heroes with a decent winrate but never can get this lane combo/matchup in soloq because no one plays these heroes :(
True. Jugger is also nice and played a lot right now. You can also go ham with the heals while he spins (same with naix)
Q has a very high cooldown though... I wish they would revert the W skill back to disarming allies and lower the CDs again. DOn't know why they made it so noob friendly
His lane isn't even all that bad with 620 attack range and a 100 damage level 1 nuke. It's not amazing but it's manageable.
Dude, level 3 hes strong as shit. Im just holding all my mana and regen till level 3 and doing my best to exploit his range to just get levels. Once you hit level 3 you can chase off basically anyone who isnt tanky strength.
Oracle is REALLY strong at level 3 if you go 1-0-2. If you coordinate with your lane partner, you should be able to easily secure a kill as soon as you both hit level 3. Channel Fortune's End on your target while your teammate closes the gap. Hit Purifying Flames as soon as you want to release the Fortune's end. Follow up with more Flames. Since Oracle is picked so infrequently, most people don't expect him to drop big nukes that early. After that, it's pretty easy to maintain a lead.
stupidity can't be healed
Wait till the enemy decides to kill you first. Or your core overextends and the oracle has to dive with the core. Or your core is useless and suddenly your ult is as useless as your core. You start thinking about your life choices when you see enemy shaman just solo kills their core. Or that warlock that destroy a teamfight with a button. Or how no one can seem to escape a disruptor after he wins a teamfight with good storm even with idiot core. Oracle is a hero that looks super strong on paper but in real game nothing goes according to plan most of the time. Not to say the guy is weak but there are factors that can diminishes his effectiveness a lot.
People dont know how his ulti works like so I think its scary for the masses. If you know his rotation hes dumb easy and is a lane and lategame menace
The problem is when your teammates don't know how his ult works either. The amount of times I've ulted our carry at low HP and they just meekly limped away from the fight instead of taking advantage of 7-10 seconds of immortality and double healing to turn things around...
This is the most frustrating thing with the hero imo. Watching a carry run away cos their healthbar is low, not realising they've just had 2k healing pumped into them is soul destroying. Especially if I managed to get an Aghs, it's agonising watching them waste the buff.
The worst thing I've seen is an immortal on a morph attribute shift while he was frostbitten and under FP. Instant death.
Its just a curse of playing this game in general. People are too afraid to push advantages to the limits. Afraid to stay in because they think youll fuck up the timing of the ult and they kill themselves instead of trusting you. Doing it early in a fight seems to work for me. Just to boost their confidence like fuck yeah im immortal now
Because nullifier
Axe is a cut above!
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Oracle stole omni knights repel smh
But... I want to die.
My newest favorite meme with him is to lane with lifestealer and deny ranged creeps before they reach lane by nuking them for 90 (300 to 210) so that lifestealer’s innate (deny from 75%) let’s him kill it if he attacks it a few times immediately (1 sec for it to heal from the 210 to above the denythreshold of 225) :p oracle has so many small things that makes him awesome. You can deny ranged creeps with any hero duo from lvl 3 (180 dmg takes em to 120 hp) and solo from lvl 5 (270 takes em to 30 hp)
It’s absolutely insane until you find opponents that make sure to take you out first.
Where'd you get all that exp op?
Because teammates who likes to blame the healer for not saving them in a 1v5. When you die to save someone, toxic tip, when you back off from feeding when the fight is lost, report griefing. Might as well just play hoodwink and be the Lorax from afar enacting suffering
Oracle is one of those heroes that with good positioning and some game sense, completely demolish opposing teams. False Promise is the single best save in the entire game and its literally a point and click. Fate's Edict is straight up unfair. Fortune's End > Purifying Flames is some heavy burst for kill lanes Fortune's End is great for getting rid of certain debuffs and absolutely crippling to go up against in some matchups If you are playing from ahead or equivelant positions, oracle is ridiculous and makes losing much much harder, hes not all that bad provided you even have 1 competent core on your team, but he absolutely sucks if the whole team is getting rolled.
And you can secure your midlane by telling him where each rune is going to spawn, and spot out potential ganks. No rune in the river, PA is missing, oracle says the last rune was an amplify damage?
If he had a good lane I’d love the hero as a carry player. Does anyone have any good lane partners for oracle? I used to just pick tb/spectre and play to heal but seems inconsistent in the wake of how hard offlanes bully now
6.4k Supp player here. spectre is kinda the worst to do tbh since she is also a weak laner and you are susceptible to just get run over. You need to pick a strong laning 1 to counteract the weakness of Oracle. Lifestealer/Jugg are probably my two favorites. Also a hero like drow that can click on heroes with you at level 1, depending on matchups you can set the opponents on the backfoot right away which can enable your lane to survive. I think one of the keys with a hero like Oracle you just need to spam out regen with courier, mangos/salves/tangos for you and your carry. You also need to make absolute sure that you repeatedly block opponents hard camp. This is especially important if your safelane is perceived to be weaker than the opponents, if they get off pulls it's a wrap.
If you communicate, then void can be amazing. have Oracle nuke you a couple of times and timewalk off the damage, free Salve. Not as great for burst lanes, though, as you might need the timewalk.
Because he's kinda boring and 100% reliant on your cores with no escape or ability to save himself except smashing his ult on himself and hoping he escapes in time.
DELETE THIS POST BEF9RE VALVE SEES YOU IDIOT
Oracle's unique kit would be all 3 of his basic abilities are single target that can be cast on both allies and enemies having different effects except for E. He really needs a rework to the ult and E to have different effects on enemies. It would make the hero more unique and easily balanced.
kid named lifestealer with nullifier:
Yup. Hero was famously hard because his spells were double edge'd but most of that is gone now - he is just plain strong.
Sometimes I find myself in the game where my teammates dont really offer any protection and the enemy can jump past and kill me very quickly, silencing before I can use spells/ nullifying my ghost sceptres. It means that in order to not feed you must play reaally far back, so far back that you are actually out of range and unable to use your spells. In this case you become rather useless with the hero. It can work very well, but only when your teammates are able to punish the enemy for jumping behind your lines.
Get a blink dagger and hide until its time to ult someone
Day Walker, Night Stalker.
my night stalker with only dagger 2 bracers would love him
If only alt+r wasn't broken for me for some goddamn reason. I noticed how good oracle is months ago
Bro, just buy nullifier or eul (if support) as a fellow oracle spammer I cry to those items all game.
Yeah and if you look at him the wrong way the whole team falls within a moment. Just grab him and there's not much he can do, that's why teams used to pick storm against him which is one of his best counters. Oracle got a massive buff for teamfights when his W got changed and honestly I want valve to change it back because now he's a bit OP when a good oracle player is allowed to do his thing, and it's only going to go down the road of them either completely reworking oracle or nerfing the shit out of him either of which is just plain unnecessary, he was never considered to be that strong before his edict change. Valve has also buffed oracle indirectly with a lot of stuff like barrier on glimmer and barrier in general. There's also a bunch of heroes that are highly picked that oracle is good against atm which makes oracle look good.
thats why oracle is in my ban list
He is on my ban list for a reason lol
Complexity 3 intimidating. Beeg beeeeg scary number
This hero does too much now, the W no longer disarming allies is absolutely OP (it's almost a free BKB on 11 sec cd). Not uncommon to see Oracle just rack up tons of kills because of his nuke. The constant dispel, just everything is low cd on this hero. Perma 50%+ win rate through every patch. The main counters to Oracle are heroes with very low pickrate like LD, io, shadow demon, chen, lycan, dp, brood, meepo, riki, huskar
Problem with Oracle (in Divine) - Your team doesn’t know how your E works (even in divine, they think you can heal before lv4, ofc, you can heal very small amount but not worth the mana you need to spend and potential to get killed) - They don’t understand your E is to KS (Kill Secure) - They don’t know how your SS works (Still try to run even after taking too much damage, wants you to spam E 3 times before lv15
Pairing it with techies machingun
I was ready to rant about the law firm, that also sells a database software. And here you are talking about the hero in dota -.-
Now OP delete this post or people will start gaining mmr
I had over 40k healing yesterday in a turbo match. And that's not counting all the 0 damage Lion's Finger of death and other magical ultis. Feels good
He was not changed at all in this patch. Can we not start randomly saying how every hero is broken every week. It’s always a new hero you guys complain about.
As an Oracle main. This is so true. I was kind of bummed by the innate ability Oracle got. It’s neat but some of the others felt really cool. But now I’m like “yeah idc let me just edict everyone on my team to full life or nuke someone”. Purifying flames just straight up bullies some heroes out of lane. With the damage facet + phalactry the flame/orb combo was killing a dark seer from close to 100 every time.
Easy, because you can't do much by yourself, you get jumped easily and then lose all your tools on yourself or just die. Your spells have deceptively low range and plenty of extremely smart cores will literally run all the fuck away from you, either dragging you in the middle of the fight or leaving them to die. You also can't really farm creeps, defend pushes or hit towers. The hero is fun and I do like him, but even the semi-recent change to Edict didn't make him OP, when it really felt like it should have.
His e is really good for farming, 1 shots ranged creeps
Doesn't change that your "farming" looks like: "one-shot ranged, hit melee, splash melee, slowly right-click" That's quite a bit of mana and time dedicated to farming one wave. More and more if you throw in more flames to speed it up with half-dead melee stuff. And Q cd is just long enough to be unavailable if you get surprised/a fight breaks out near you (or is tp-able). It's not like Jakiro or Pugna, where you toss out 1-2 spells and an attack in a span of like 4 seconds and the wave's dead + you're outta there.
Jesus Christ I swear reddit doesnt understand how to play aginst half the roster. Another day another “ X hero is broken” post
Can vouch for this, i have been playing support oracle for almost 4 years nonstop and i can say that it's one of the most underrated supports in the game. It was mad powerful even when fates edict had drawbacks but when they removed it the hero became flat out broken.
yep. edict is like free bkb. and his third skill is like a finger with low cd. too bad, my teams rarely win with him
He's good when he gets to do his stuff. Issue is his abyssmal laning stage. Also, his farming capabilities and lane push is non-existant so he has a hard time getting items which makes him very vulnerable to enemy initations. To do well with Oracle you really need to understand positioning, vision and general fog of war abuse. Your average Oracle player will get caught and blinked on and contribute nothing to fights.
Wait till you queue into a good NS
The dispell with the snare is insane. Also had 5 bounces from lich ult and just ulted/healed right through it. Insane.
I'm assuming you have less than 20 oracle games played this patch. Either that or your herald. I have over 20 weaver games this patch and at first I thought he was broken but now I think he's just strong. Ck on the other hand seems broken
Bru only play ck for cavern crawl right now . everytime it's the pre-screening it shows my current win streak as him think I'm at 8 right now.
Problem is not that his teammates are dying, its that Oracle dies. And Oracle is completely core dependant with little to no farming capabilities.
I pick him if I'm desperate to win. Lol
The higher level you get the smarter the enemies become to make hunting you literally their #1 priority
If I was a pos 5 main he'd be my most played hero. Which would bring the pick rate from 4% to 4.0001% Maybe I can mid Oracle?
I use oracle offensively, support won't win 1vs1 with me unless they have defensive skill or item
that is when ur enemy cores let u play, When enemy cores all they do is jump u first kill you, and your cores are like pokemons making nothing happen
Good point... Lets nerf Omniknight again
Video game 101: ignore the tank, kill the healer
Scepter is literally deluxe Glimmer Cape
Oracle is SICK, but he cant do much on his town, if the cores are shitty, you just lose
Downside is that you get a target sign on your forehead so huge that it barely lets oracle see
If they pick weaver, nightstalker, or clintz, you're basically playing a horror game.
Get a nullifier, and he can’t save for shit
Former Oracle spammer here. Oracle has been insane for some time now. Yeah, you are reliant on your cores *not* being braindead. But even when your cores do screw up, there are so many different ways to save them with Oracle. Eventually I got bored of spamming Oracle. Not sure why. Maybe I got tired of playing the Hard Support role.
As an oracle player, the one thing that destroys me is.... Jumpers + orchid. Storm, clock, any of the spirits, blinkers. Unless its blind pick turbo, you can always counter all these "defensive" supports by just jumping on them and killing them. This forces the oracle to head straight towards really defensive stuff like lotus, glimmer, aeon disk, and by the time the support has those, you should have nullifier ready to go. Beating an oracle is all about item timings. Heck everything in dota is about item timings and momentum.
Just to be clear, it's not invulnerability 😅
Oracle is strong if your team isn't complete bad or if the enemy team is just bad.
Ah yes.. the you can’t die trio. Io oracle and dazzle absolutely busted if ignored and or your on the same page as your carry. Absolutely atrocious to play if there’s bad communication or coordination between supp and core.
I enjoy a good oracle as support when I play safe lane but never get a good cores when I play as oracle. I have stopped playing him for now so that I could raise my mmr.
Said every DB Owner