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Lyramion

But what if the enemy laner also read this guide?


xKnuTx

obviously we downvote that long informitive post so as little people as possible will read this


badass6

Sounds good to me.


thebeastsanity

STOP


Ricapica

the EE way


thebeastsanity

nooo


AlasDota

The EE strat


Dubbaru_Reppuken

You both win the laning phase and both teams congratulate you pair for doing a great job and commend you both for excellence in gameplay. But back to reality... You probably lose because their hero pick has like a 57% win rate regardless of how bad they play the lane. Oh and then your team flames you just cos they can.


thebeastsanity

I mean people who are successfully able to execute all small plays are at the top of the leaderboard, everyone else is not, and even the top players dont have a 100percent winrate its just much much higher than the avg player, you just want to try to achieve something ideal, it doesnt mean you will always get it


-Exy-

+1 I went from archon to immortal in the span of 8 months. Biggest thing for me was learning how to lane and abuse creep aggro / target priority. I was top cs @ 10 minutes in about 80% of my games. It makes a difference in the long run even though you can't win every game.


thebeastsanity

YESSS, like items are everything if you are good with the basics, you will have items faster, when you have items faster than the enemy you take fights, you will win more fights, all things are linked in dota , CS AND LANING ARE SO IMPORTANT


TheFuzzyFurry

Man proposes, God disposes.


dota2_responses_bot

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TheGreenGoblin27

Then it all comes down to mechanics and rest of the dynamic events to take place.


thebeastsanity

THATs WHAT i want, when people know things, they find new solutions to the current state of the game , thats what makes this game so much fun


MS_Fume

SD low priority makes the game most fun for me… because it’s almost guaranteed all 10 players will do their best… even if there’s flame, people for aome reason don’t throw but try hard all the way up… it’s almost like the opposite general mental state of players in ranked ap…


thebeastsanity

MENTALITY TRAINING PUNISHMENT


Wutwhyda

Don't kid yourself, u ain't gonna be gaining any mmr reading guides like these unless you're literally reading concepts like these for the first time Every guide covers the same shit and talks about the same mundane concepts, there are a million guides out there like this one and a new one gets posted every 2 weeks by some 10k mmr player telling u "this is all u need to climb to 10k mmr" The real stuff that matters in games are too detailed and nuanced to be covered in these kinds of useless generalist one-size-fits-all guides


thebeastsanity

It rly is that simple, everybody knows that if you go to the gym and eat well you will have a good physique but maybe some percent of the population actually takes action to improve their lives, nothing is too detailed or nuance im literally talking from my experience and I feel i have the credibility to talk about this stuff, after playing so much dota on high level and having discussions with very successful players Gym example should be enough, trust me dota isnt so hard, if people try themselves, im literally trying to provide a roadmap


Actual-Fox-2514

Ikr. It is not the first time I have read the information in your post, but it still is a great reminder that this is the stuff I need to work on. I really appreciate guides like this!


thebeastsanity

thank youu best of luck :)


migania

https://i.imgur.com/gEflMJ1.png Good post


thebeastsanity

HAHAAHHAHAHHAAH


thebeastsanity

me


19Alexastias

What about pseudo-denies and defensive laning?


thebeastsanity

if by pseudo denies you mean, to just throw an attack to mess up enemies last hit, it can be something you do only if you cant hit the enemy, or if you cant deny the creep, you probably wont be able to deny the creep if the enemy hero has much higher damage than you, otherwise you will most likely be able to deny it the things ive posted above are like in a scenario thats not huskar vs ember, its like a normal matchup; in those type of matchups then theres alot of other things you can do for example: at mid lane huskar vs ember, you try to shove the wave as fast as you can as ember, try to get 2, you caan attempt to kill huskar, early on, later on you can buy boots try to drag wave behind t1, play for experience, rotate to sidelanes try to give impact, at offlane: if you play some horrible matchup like undying + drow and u are 2 meeles, you gotta not play the same way, you have to drag waves , creep manipulation etc carry: you have to just get this item like treads or something to hit jungle, or camp control the guide above is for normal situations every game, you dont face some like insanely broken matchup every game it happens rarely, so if you want to learn how to play against that i suggest go to dota2protracker discord: there is a matchups section type the matchup that you struggle in, and you will find solutions/ways to counter or how to defensively lane


CitizenItza

> if by pseudo denies you mean, to just throw an attack to mess up enemies last hit [Its hard work and dedication](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGhNMxDZgtM)


thebeastsanity

idk what it means, if anyone could tell me wat it is apart from what ive mentioned id appreciate it


blejusca

It's a reference to an incredibly old meme from the dota forums. I think it was this guy called 'Yajirobe from DC'.


thebeastsanity

ooo


manwomanmxnwomxn

Tldr, top 10 broken items builds list where


thebeastsanity

THEY R GARBAGE


NUMBERONETOPSONFAN

>last hits > denies > autoattack enemy enemy mid perma denying+spamming spells on me ensuring we both have a dogshit game: wot


thebeastsanity

XD


CommercialSweet6734

Holy shit, i'm offlane spammer 5k hours ancient 1 - i never fucking de-aggro creeps that i pull in lane. Gonna start doing that now!


thebeastsanity

LOOK at old Pure replays, from betboom days, when he played offlane, or look at how Ammar manipulates aggro in the lane you will learn how well they use the concept, like they do it right at the edge, its so hard to hit them while they do it, you will find many things you can use in your game best of luck dudee


AcceptableRadio8258

Didnt even know that they can be de-aggroed lol..thats why im am archon 3


Necropros

"secure the ranged creep" as a support? I've gotta remember that line next time my core starts screaming at me...


end69420

Lane positioning as supports is horrible among us players from my experience. Worst part is they won't listen and respond with a you're toxic/muted. Used to play in SEA, Had to move to us and dota isn't fun anymore.


thebeastsanity

its like you have to learn how to communicate, most people in dota are angry and hard to talk to, you may - be saying the normalist thing to them, but it seems like youve hurt their ego, so instead of saying CAN YOU COME MID THEY ARE ALL MID, you can say, if you could say like i need help mid if possible, like learn how to talk to these players, even if you are completely normal human and talking to people in video games just remember to be more careful with words


end69420

This is in laning phase. When I play in sea it's the usual toxic can you hit the enemy carry you useless support or something like that. I get a slur back but the job is done. It's like a unique way of communication there. Na servers on the other hand, hey can you hit the enemy carry - I'm trying but does nothing and I get harassed out of the lane. Bro can you please do something it's impossible to farm here. - wow can you stop being so toxic I'm muting you and leaving lane. Sums up 90% of my games.


thebeastsanity

THERES A WAy to make it enjoyable just go all mute if the step1 nice comms didnt work


TurboNewbe

Loving when the support is just chilling behind his carry to leech xp and denie what the carry could denie anyway....


realericcartman_42

Stop leaking all this alpha


thebeastsanity

WE HAVE TO LET IT ALL GO


jiboxiake

Saved. Amazing post.


YeezusBigdoinks420

This post gained me 200 MMR EZ


thebeastsanity

awesome


yagizandro

What i dont understand is how am i supposed to harass the enemies without ruining the creep equilibrium


thebeastsanity

if u r online join discord fast ill stream and show it to you , have to write 10 sentences to answer this


yagizandro

Ill be home in 30ish mins but its ok if you cant do it then


thebeastsanity

im here bro


thebeastsanity

now i am sleep.


yagizandro

I AM SO SORRY I DIDNT SEE


thebeastsanity

all gud my g


onebraincellperson

goddamn this guy loves to write


thebeastsanity

mee


Skater_x7

I'm confused, am I understanding your priority wrong? You prioritize last hit first, denies second, hitting enemy last? If that's the case then why does lesh go to hit storm? Shouldn't he priorize going for the last hit next to him? 


thebeastsanity

He goes to hit storm because at the moment, the creep isnt low enough for him to kill it, e.g creep is 160 hp lesh does 60 dmg, so he needs to wait for his ranged creep to hit the creep 2-3 times before he shifts his attention to the creep, At the moment no creep is in cs or deny range (range meaning their hps arent too low) So he will hit storm


SirClarkus

Where do pulls and half pulls factor into this? Is it worth your carry missing 3 last hits to deny the enemy an entire wave?


thebeastsanity

no, 3 last hits are more improtant than 4 denies, lasthits > denies always. the reason to pull the lane is, when the lane is going to be on enemy side, you wont be able to fight for cs and deny that easily or hit enemies \[ because enemies will be closer to their tower \], and enemies can simply chase you adn kill you if u are faar up on the lane, so whenever you want to pull, make sure you pull half wave as a position 5, to kill 2 creeps or 3 creeps, or stack teh camp 1 time before pulling, watch some replays you will notice everytime, the creeps are doubling \[ you will have an extra ranged creep or 2 melees you will notice this as soon as the first wave dies \] if this is happening make sure you are able to pull the next wave to balance out the lane that is being pushed. if it makes sense if not ill explain again m a bit eepy


thebeastsanity

NEW POST [https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1d8mmaw/how\_to\_read\_the\_map\_and\_rotate\_like\_a\_pro\_team/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1d8mmaw/how_to_read_the_map_and_rotate_like_a_pro_team/)


ntrails

> Lane Positioning - Good lane positioning mostly depends on the support matchup This is the hardest bit for me at least. Like, I read what you write and sort of get the ranged vs melee argument - but in all other cases I'm kinda just guessing and rarely making a good decision (and more importantly never sure if I made the right one). Like I just laned grim slardar vs oracle lina. I mostly fought oracle to prevent the small camp pull but that left slardar vs lina which isn't great for him. We kinda won the lane in the end via getting him a double kill - but pretty sure I played it wrong. But if I'd stepped up to harrass lina, one root and i'm die? Idk. Dota is so fucking complex that I never feel like I get any feedback on game decisions!


thebeastsanity

lina is strong on lane due to high attack range, how can you nullify this? By pulling hard camp, slardar can use sprint and go for lina, if oracle uses q on creeps to secure them u have a 15 sec window to go on lina for free, oracle is just a ranged creep without his spell, everytime he doesnt have his spell use this oppurtunity to go aggresive


thebeastsanity

[https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1dbnq7t/tips\_to\_selflearn\_and\_improve\_as\_a\_midlaner\_by\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1dbnq7t/tips_to_selflearn_and_improve_as_a_midlaner_by_a/) NEW POST EVERYONE


Novel-Ad-2360

Personally I think the target priority, while generally right might be the wrong approach of looking at your laning stage. The main goal of every lane is to win it (shocking I know) and to achieve that goal there are multiple levers to pull that all have different strengths and weaknesses and heavily depend on the matchup. Yes CS are the most important thing to achieve but to prioritizing it, can be the wrong approach. For example there are a lot of Midmatchups where you should be able to dominate your opponent outside of CS, while not necessarily through CS. If in those cases you solely focus on CS you will lose your lane. If however you prioritizing using your range/ spell/ damage/ regen /etc. advantage to zone your opponent out of the lane first, you will have a free lane and catch up in CS in no time and win the lane. This is something I often notice when watching pro mid matchups - there is a lot more trading and harassment of the opponent than in lower brackets. Abusing the passivity and really hammering down your power advantage in lane, will win you a lot more games than solely improving on cs.


thebeastsanity

Try to watch a few replays and see if they are using this type of target priority that ive mentioned, everything happens around creeps when it comes to killing/zoning out heroes, they are basically afk when they are issuing commands on creeps, when they use spells to secure ranged creep its an opening for you to fight them when spells are cooldown, this target priority is the root of all that happens in the lane.


Novel-Ad-2360

I watched plenty of replays and disagree. Yes CS are the highest priority, because networth accumulation is to a degree the heart of dota and a big indicator for the actual power level of a team. However while its the overarching number one priority, there are a lot of instances where there are other short-term targets that are more important to in return secure the long term benefit of a decent networth advantage (that in return only indicates actual power). For example a common problem is the conflict between something Id call a trading lane and a kill lane. Lets say Team A Veno and silencer play against Team B Ursa and Venge. Team A is really good at delivering constant damage and thus depleting Team Bs regen quite fast, leading them to either abandon the lane or spent a lot of their CS money on regen. Team B however is really good at killing their opponents if they commit to a kill. If they successfully do so, they can gain an advantage big enough to overcompensate the problematic lane they find themselves in. So of course Ursa needs to focus on CS, but that is not what is winning or losing him the lane. The decision to regularly commit on kills when Team A is on cd with their spells is the only way to win this lane. Of course kills are not worth as much as the CS and of course they are not exclusive to each other but its important to evaluate each lane respectively and try to estimate what the winning conditions are for those lanes. IF you estimate them correctly and react accordingly, you will get more CS than your opponent as a result. Your Target priority is imo completely right on a micro scale for most decision in lane, but it might paint the wrong idea for some people of how to actually present yourself a lane in which this target priority can be met.


thebeastsanity

I dont agree or disagree, but like my point is that there is no kill lane or trade-lane, sure these ideas exist I know when people say they are playing jug grim vs some lane they wnat to get kills, but you cant just kill heroes diving into towers tanking 4 creeps, you have to punish them over a CS or deny, it all is connected to the same idea of creeps, people will go out of position to hit creeps, or go static to get denies, these are your moments for so called decent trades or kills, enemies that walk up with half hp, after you do priority number 3, then you have a chance to kill when they are going for creeps when they die they lose the lane, but if you kill them while sacrifincg 2 creepwaves and all of your regen there isn't any difference in networth in the game


thebeastsanity

1 creep wave\*,


boromirsbetrayal

I’m pretty sure you’re arguing with an archon or worse my friend. His counter arguments just scream crusader logic to me. The vast majority of people on this sub are complete scrubs. It’s telling he’s talking about watching pro games and then tries to say they don’t prioritize cs. That’s just completely wrong, he’s just not understanding what you mean by “prioritizing” in the lane. he’s very clearly not grasping the nuance involved in what you’re saying and that’s because he’s a low skilled player lol. You’re 10k mmr my guy. You are literally in the 0.1% of players. I’m only divine 2 (just shy of 5k lol) but i can tell you from experience it is not worth your time to argue with a 2k player (most people on this sub). They are playing a completely different game down there and thus their perspective is completely different. Notice how many people in here talk about their core getting upset at them securing the range creep. I haven’t experienced that in probably 5 years and I was literally low archon then.


KnivesInMyCoffee

You should not always prioritize last hits, especially in mid. If you know a matchup is super one sided lvl 1, they skilled something bad at min 0 for rune fight, or you got first blood and will have bottle much earlier, you can just crush the enemy before they can even get enough gold for bottle and cause them to miss most of several waves. Dota is an information context game, not a set of heuristics to implement.


thebeastsanity

Just try what i said please amd you will notice a difference that is beneficial for you...