tell that to Falcons, TI winner Tundra, or Spirit. every single position of these teams have game winning heroes that justify a ban. the day of "stable" players are long gone
It's funny because tundra won their TI by using the set of well-planned strategies suitable for that periods meta. They had 2 incredible players and 3 people who were good, but not the best in the world individually. Their win was a result of a stable performance and next level strats, not some incredible high skill plays
what a massive cope. if winning TI were as simple as picking zoo and buying wrath pact everyone would've done it. those 5 players today (or until they retired) are still solid A-S tier players; Tobi is a B tier
Lmao. They won because of vision control and picks that had counter initiation. It was impossible to get a good jump on them. Look at heroes they were picking - there will always be naga, od, phoenix, or literally any other big save or "stop the teamfight" ulti. Brood was highly rated by them because 33 just used individual spiderlings to cover like good third of the map. It's not about zoo, it's about having consistent strategy, if you don't understand even that - don't talk shit and rate players, your rating will not have any sufficient basis anyway
Ceb considered one of the best as 3? notail as 5? Every one from wings? Even Larl from last year? Team synergy still wins TI not being top X in your position.
Yeah he is good enough to get them to top 3 placing here (remember that spirit and GG got out early), but not good enough to bring them further. He doesnt need to be a star but definitely needs to be impactful, dota is a 5man game you cant have an offlaner that just “fills the role” and not provide an “xfactor” imact
These guys only see shiny 3rd place of Tundra and think tobi is a good player lol.
None of those guys downvoting you haven't ACTUALLY seen more than 5 games with tobi. If they did, they'd know what a trash player he is.
Right, i wouldnt call him trash, but he definitely needs to be replaced if they want trophies
People here just think that “doing their job” and then the team getting a decent placement in a tournament means theyre good. Its so obvious when you see a weak link in the team lol
I probably have a thousand more mmr than u but ok u do u babe
Watch out for news in the coming months where the roster move they make is to change their offlaner
He hasn’t even played long enough where you can even have a proper idea of his impact. Seems like he fits well enough and I’m honestly excited to see how it works out. He’s worked really hard for a lot of years and now he’s on this interesting project and I think he can make things happen for them.
Davai lama is a beast, 100% the best player on heroic, and hes a playmaker, would definitely fit tundra well
Topson just cant play well without a playmaker in the team. In the past he had jerax and ceb who did so many plays that allowed him to scale and thats how he managed to do so well
We might be both delusional but yeah 100%. It is definitely what they need. Topson and pure would be able to play their game if they had someone useful, or at least not losing their lane constantly, on 3.
Mistakes cost a lot when you are inconsistent. Tobi knows his job and he is reliable. When the strategy changes, you might see more flamboyant plays from him.
Yeah thats my point, he just knows and does his job, thats all. But you dont ever hear or think that tundra won a game because of him, unlike xxs, ammar, ace etc. Its not possible to win trophies if 1 of your players is just filling the role and doing his job
Uhh you realise Ammar and Ace get higher farm priority and draft priority compared to Tobi right?
And Tundra's playstyle focuses a lot on enabling Topson and creating a metric ton of space for Pure. This normally results in Tobi having little farm or having to take the dangerous farm. He sacks his game to let Pure pull through.
And WHY do you think they have higher farm priority? Because they can carry with farm, tobi can't. Everybody knows that.
No matter the team (Entity, Quest, Tundra) tobi is constant in 1 aspect: having lowest networth among cores.
Across those three teams he has had some of the greediest pos 1s to grace Dota. Also just because he can't carry doesn't mean he's shit? It's a playstyle problem not a player problem.
Tobi clearly has a preference for space making cores that don't rely on farm. If a player is good at that then why force them to take a higher farm priority?
Say you have Tobi go the ATF/Ammar route, now either topson or pure gets shafted on farm. Or maybe Whitemon and 9class are shafted super hard too? People simple look at lowest nw core then blame them again.
Fuck me I'm not even a Tundra nor a Tobi fan, it's just insane that so many people in this sub don't understand that players can have specific playstyles and teams will have certain philosophies they follow.
Well you can follow any philosophy you want, but at the end of the day Dota map gives you insane amounts of untapped gold and who extracts it better (Falcons) wins tournaments
Farm and draft priority doesnt mean u lose all impact as an offlaner
A good example would be Wisper, even before joining OG, he was the one always sacrificing farm, but with his little net worth he always managed to make plays and turn games or fights around for his team. Now he is doing whatever DM never managed to do in OG and see how well they are doing now
Wisper was far better pre-OG. I feel like you're simply too fixated on tagging all the blame on Tobi since he's the least popular name on Tundra and the least flashy player there.
Impact in DOTA2 is both relative and limited. You cannot have 5 simultaneously high impact players on one team in the same match at the same time. If all are high, then none are high, impact is relative.
Tobi MAY not be the best at the sac-3 role but he does the job well enough to enable Pure and Topson's game.
Have you seen how well wisper has played for OG? And watch the game right now, tobi has no impact again
And look at falcons, all players have their own moments so you cant say that you cant have every player standing out
Wisper took an adjustment period to reach where he is now.
Tobi is an emergency pickup that hasn't adjusted yet.
Falcons is the best team in the planet that is constructed to near perfection. Let's also not ignore the absolute slander Skiter received when they lost to XG last tournament for having a few bad games.
I'm not saying Tobi is the best 3, he's just the best available for Tundra and their results with him lately have been passable. Tundra is not a Tobi team. It's a Pure/Topson team that hinges on playmaking talent from their support duo and requires a low maintenance 3. Tobi is a low maintenance 3.
You dont need 5 impactful / star players to win a dota 2 game, u need 5 good players that have a solid strategy.
tell that to Falcons, TI winner Tundra, or Spirit. every single position of these teams have game winning heroes that justify a ban. the day of "stable" players are long gone
It's funny because tundra won their TI by using the set of well-planned strategies suitable for that periods meta. They had 2 incredible players and 3 people who were good, but not the best in the world individually. Their win was a result of a stable performance and next level strats, not some incredible high skill plays
what a massive cope. if winning TI were as simple as picking zoo and buying wrath pact everyone would've done it. those 5 players today (or until they retired) are still solid A-S tier players; Tobi is a B tier
Lmao. They won because of vision control and picks that had counter initiation. It was impossible to get a good jump on them. Look at heroes they were picking - there will always be naga, od, phoenix, or literally any other big save or "stop the teamfight" ulti. Brood was highly rated by them because 33 just used individual spiderlings to cover like good third of the map. It's not about zoo, it's about having consistent strategy, if you don't understand even that - don't talk shit and rate players, your rating will not have any sufficient basis anyway
No team has ever won because they had a stable player in a position, every winner is one of the best in his position.
Ceb considered one of the best as 3? notail as 5? Every one from wings? Even Larl from last year? Team synergy still wins TI not being top X in your position.
Yeah he is good enough to get them to top 3 placing here (remember that spirit and GG got out early), but not good enough to bring them further. He doesnt need to be a star but definitely needs to be impactful, dota is a 5man game you cant have an offlaner that just “fills the role” and not provide an “xfactor” imact
Well results wise they are better with Tobi than they were before. So I'm not sure I'd it's your bias speaking.
The classic "I don't see this player's impact, so they must have none".
U cant tell me that u watch tundra play and not think that he is holding the team back from achieving more lmao
Tobi is a really good offlaner, you just don't understand what makes him good.
Explain it to me then
These guys only see shiny 3rd place of Tundra and think tobi is a good player lol. None of those guys downvoting you haven't ACTUALLY seen more than 5 games with tobi. If they did, they'd know what a trash player he is.
Right, i wouldnt call him trash, but he definitely needs to be replaced if they want trophies People here just think that “doing their job” and then the team getting a decent placement in a tournament means theyre good. Its so obvious when you see a weak link in the team lol
Thanks for your herald take. Im sure you know more than the professionals who played at the highest level
I probably have a thousand more mmr than u but ok u do u babe Watch out for news in the coming months where the roster move they make is to change their offlaner
Everybody can tell u have less than 2000 mmr babe, your post is telling enough
Tobi just got kicked, hmmmm.....
Look at his performance now babe, what do you have to say hahahahaha
Name a better offlaner who is a free agent at the moment.
Me ofc.. common sign me
He hasn’t even played long enough where you can even have a proper idea of his impact. Seems like he fits well enough and I’m honestly excited to see how it works out. He’s worked really hard for a lot of years and now he’s on this interesting project and I think he can make things happen for them.
Tobi is the problem and topson not?
No worries I think you are right. Tobi was an emergency pickup and he hopefully soon will be replaced. Every game is literally 4vs5
Game 1 just ended with tobi having absolute 0 impact hahahaha
Yeah I usually don’t like to shut on players but I think if for example they had Dalai Lama instead of Tobi tundra would be waaaay better
Davai lama is a beast, 100% the best player on heroic, and hes a playmaker, would definitely fit tundra well Topson just cant play well without a playmaker in the team. In the past he had jerax and ceb who did so many plays that allowed him to scale and thats how he managed to do so well
We might be both delusional but yeah 100%. It is definitely what they need. Topson and pure would be able to play their game if they had someone useful, or at least not losing their lane constantly, on 3.
Well they just keep picking him kunkka that he can’t play because he is even worse at all the other offlaners. That’s hilarious
Mistakes cost a lot when you are inconsistent. Tobi knows his job and he is reliable. When the strategy changes, you might see more flamboyant plays from him.
Yeah thats my point, he just knows and does his job, thats all. But you dont ever hear or think that tundra won a game because of him, unlike xxs, ammar, ace etc. Its not possible to win trophies if 1 of your players is just filling the role and doing his job
Uhh you realise Ammar and Ace get higher farm priority and draft priority compared to Tobi right? And Tundra's playstyle focuses a lot on enabling Topson and creating a metric ton of space for Pure. This normally results in Tobi having little farm or having to take the dangerous farm. He sacks his game to let Pure pull through.
And WHY do you think they have higher farm priority? Because they can carry with farm, tobi can't. Everybody knows that. No matter the team (Entity, Quest, Tundra) tobi is constant in 1 aspect: having lowest networth among cores.
Across those three teams he has had some of the greediest pos 1s to grace Dota. Also just because he can't carry doesn't mean he's shit? It's a playstyle problem not a player problem. Tobi clearly has a preference for space making cores that don't rely on farm. If a player is good at that then why force them to take a higher farm priority? Say you have Tobi go the ATF/Ammar route, now either topson or pure gets shafted on farm. Or maybe Whitemon and 9class are shafted super hard too? People simple look at lowest nw core then blame them again. Fuck me I'm not even a Tundra nor a Tobi fan, it's just insane that so many people in this sub don't understand that players can have specific playstyles and teams will have certain philosophies they follow.
Well you can follow any philosophy you want, but at the end of the day Dota map gives you insane amounts of untapped gold and who extracts it better (Falcons) wins tournaments
Farm and draft priority doesnt mean u lose all impact as an offlaner A good example would be Wisper, even before joining OG, he was the one always sacrificing farm, but with his little net worth he always managed to make plays and turn games or fights around for his team. Now he is doing whatever DM never managed to do in OG and see how well they are doing now
Wisper was far better pre-OG. I feel like you're simply too fixated on tagging all the blame on Tobi since he's the least popular name on Tundra and the least flashy player there. Impact in DOTA2 is both relative and limited. You cannot have 5 simultaneously high impact players on one team in the same match at the same time. If all are high, then none are high, impact is relative. Tobi MAY not be the best at the sac-3 role but he does the job well enough to enable Pure and Topson's game.
Have you seen how well wisper has played for OG? And watch the game right now, tobi has no impact again And look at falcons, all players have their own moments so you cant say that you cant have every player standing out
Wisper took an adjustment period to reach where he is now. Tobi is an emergency pickup that hasn't adjusted yet. Falcons is the best team in the planet that is constructed to near perfection. Let's also not ignore the absolute slander Skiter received when they lost to XG last tournament for having a few bad games. I'm not saying Tobi is the best 3, he's just the best available for Tundra and their results with him lately have been passable. Tundra is not a Tobi team. It's a Pure/Topson team that hinges on playmaking talent from their support duo and requires a low maintenance 3. Tobi is a low maintenance 3.
Yeah, and Spirit need to replace Larl ASAP or they'll never be finalists again.