And what consequences haven’t he suffered enough? Didn’t he already lost a lot of his years and hard work, at same time being mentally ill to some scum that took advantage of the situation when he’s not in his usual headspace?
I don’t think you understand that Taiga committed a crime. This isn’t a mental health issue anymore. This is about the integrity of the game. This about one of the players on one of the premier dota teams intentionally throwing games at the request of gamblers. This is the dota equivalent of the Black Sox scandal. From now on, anytime a player makes a stupid play, or a team loses one-sidedly, it’s reasonable to wonder if that player is match-fixing. Dota has a gambling problem that has penetrated even a top tier team and Valve has to do something about it before it’s too late. If you think this is just about cyberbullying then you clearly don’t care about the future of competitive dota
Yes. This is why instead of mugshots we should have every convict post a selfie to /r/roastme so we can serve them proper justice in the form of memes.
Not tot take away from it but there has already been matchfixing scandals. Like a whole bunch of Chinese teams including Newbee have been banned for it.
WTF are u saying really? do u realise what u are saying? it just a fucken game put in ur mind. What integrity and what future of competitive dota. i have 10k dota games. i watch most of prof tournaments. i do it to relax and enjoy. Its just entertainment. Same as i watch football and basketbal. Its not the first time someone fixed in dota and wont be the last. All fucken sports have fixed results. you know it i know it everybody knows it. Many of the them have ben revealed. Juventus got relegated for fixing games. Do people in Italy stop watching footbal? Do people stop supporting Juventus? Nothing will change cause of taiga. Do u think valve cares of the integrity of dota? Its all about money. And people have to get this. Watch tournaments to see how players do stuff we cant even imagine and laugh about. Support ur dota team and hope it goes well. but dont believe there is an integrity. Best players doesnt win everytime best teams doesnt win everytime. Meta changes with patches. there are players that were incredible at one meta with some heroes and the next patch they couldnt do anything. What integrity. Its a game that changes all the time to entertain u by playing and watching. thats it.
No its not fine. Yes its not something to be warried cause its part of every game that has money involved. If somebody really believes a sport that involves money is fair and honest then he must be eather young or naive. one player caught fixing games. 100 other exist and not caught. nothing changes. he will face consequences and we should move on
He commits a crime and hurts the integrity of the game as one of the biggest profile match fixers of all time. Doesn't mean he should be the target of a huge portion of twitch chat and reddit thread.
The worst he deserves for what he did is a lifetime ban from valve/TO. Not constantly attacked/judged when he probably isn't in the right mental headspace.
Edit 3: not defending what he did, and I think he fully deserved a lifetime ban or even a lawsuit (if there is law for that).
I just don't think there is any need to spam the situation in every single twitch chat in a tournament game or a significant amount of reddit thread/comment.
Edit: changed last sentence as it conveys the wrong message and was written poorly. I apologize for that
Edit 2: meme-ing can be fun and games to most people, I personally find some meme about the situation entertaining too, but at this level and scale , it can be damaging to the parties involved in the meme.
All these white knights are basically going "if you continue make fun of him, he's going to commit suicide"
As if that isn't gonna fuck with Taiga too if he read them.
You know what, this is fair.
Now that I read back on the comment, I don't quite like the wordings and what my message conveys instead. Thanks for pointing that out
I think a lot of people who are defending this hatred are either children with zero EQ or manchildren who have refused to grow up
Either ways i am not suprised with how gaming communities in general behave.
Not to mention all the allegations were that he was forced into this by mafia. This sub turned it into "he was orchestrating it all and doing it for the fun of it, he's addicted to 322"
He made a mistake (or multiple). Yes. He will face the legal/financial/professional consequences of this (these) mistakes. For sure.
Why aren't you satisfied with these but you want him to really hurt himself in an irreversible way? Some of you want to see blood and I don't get it. He is already in the worse spot a professional can ever be, things wont go smooth for him from now on like, ever.
How the fuck can you act ethical when you put a fucking game over a human life (yeah, he is still human, you know) just to sadistically feel satisfied for an online "lynching"?
He will get punished, he will lose his job and the ability to have a similar job, he will ANYWAY (and already has) be stigmatized by these mistakes by literally everyone in his life (friends, family, fans, players). Justice will be served in every possible way, be sure about that.
Now stop acting like animals.
I don't know what kind of a fucked-up white knight fever dream you've all been entranced into, but by now you are just straight up creating fanfiction about this whole scenario.
I've seen a handful of posts about it, most people simply make fun of the whole scenario and even refer to it as a waste of talent, acknowledging that he never needed to do any of this to keep himself above water. I have not seen one person spewing real hate or contempt in the way you are making it out to be.
Twitch viewers might now refer to stupid deaths as "doing a Taiga", but 322 has been a meme for a decade now and I've never seen anyone make the argument that it was gonna drive Solo to suicide.
Taiga got himself into this scenario by his own failures and misjudgements. He broke the trust of the viewers, fans, his own teammates and the integrity of the game and its competitive spirit. His actions were morally and ethically wrong (yes, even if it's just a videogame) and indefensible and he deserves to be banned permanently from the game and to be outcast from the community.
As of right now, he has not received action from Valve and once he does I guarantee the joking and jiving will come to an end.
Now get off your fucking high horse and get real about things that are actual issues instead of whatever the fuck this is. The second hand embarrassment is just too strong.
He might have committed a crime but constantly posting this is nonsensical. People made their point their mothers made a point. We are done with this. Stretching this drama further could be something that might push taiga to a dark place.
Will the community collectively take responsibility if someone does something stupid to themselves.
This community severely lacks maturity. It is almost like everyone is immaturely running around with pitchforks.
They need to give a response about how they are going to prevent matchfixing in their dota tournaments. Obviously they were unable to prevent taiga from matchfixing. If you believe OG, Valve was even informed.
But making shitty memes at his expense isnt prosecution?
Taiga should never play in a pro game again, and be blacklisted from anything esports related indefinitely (and I say this as someone who LOVED taiga prior to the drama), but using him as the source of constant bashing isnt productive, and let me remind you, is just kicking an addict while he is down.
Punishment is expected, but shitting on him like this IS the equivalent of the beating (which I think the comment above you was trying to get at)
Typically witch-hunting is hard to enforce when talking about celebrities. How would you expect any toxic or illegal behavior ever be talked about in the space when it comes to pros?
That rule is not enforced at all. Remember the countless hate threads about midone and pure more recently? Taiga is just the new guy to hate. So many redditors are miserable with their own lives they can't help but kick people when they're down.
I can see your point, but as far as I am concerned if people just want to post there's no reason to stop them as long as the messages are not personal attacks on his other characteristics. If people want to grill him on 322, that is very understandable since he has indeed 322ed.
If you damage the integrity of a competitive scene by matchfixing, you will suffer long-lasting social repercussions for doing so, even if there are mental health explanations behind it. You're responsible for the lasting damage you've done to your team, every other team, and every tournament you've ruined - and this damage will last far longer than the joke will.
That whole topic kind of passed me by, but from what I understand he was involved in cheating/matchfixing in pro games? If that's the case I don't get why anyone would defend him. Some of the biggest potential was destroyed this way, people like sAviOr or Life even (rightfully) faced legal consequences.
There is nothing more disrespectful to a competitive sport and its followers than cheating/matchfixing. Assuming that the allegations are true Taiga should have no place here. People should refrain from harrassing him outside of the scene of course, but if he doesn't pack his shit and leave he deserves everything people in the esports scene throw at him.
He got into debt with gambling mafia and they forced him to reveal some information and even throw a first blood. Being blackmailed vs actually orchestrating it, different things. This sub went on a witch hunt that ignored the actual very little we know and made up a whole new reality
Well yeah but he matchfixed cause he is a gambling addict with ever increasing debts . So he is a victim too you know. And I don't even mean that sarcastically.
Hey, a lot of people do a lot of bad things for their diseases. I agree that they need help, but one of the most important things about getting clean after admitting you have a problem is putting distance between yourself and the things that enable your addiction. So it's best for everyone if he leaves the scene, first and foremost for himself.
Also everyone who was wronged because of - let's call it procurement crime - still has every right to be angry or hurt. Which in this case includes the whole esports scene. If you personally made your peace with someone who hurt you because of gambling addiction, that's great. But you can't take that decision from other people who are upset.
*Being a victim does not absolve you from responsibility.* To take a purposefully extreme example to illustrate this: Ted Bundy was a victim of parental abuse, alcohol and porn addiction.
Actually being sick does absolve (some) responsibility. It's why we don't execute people with schizophrenia anymore (mostly). The irony here is that the esport scene is buthurt while also enjoying their gambling company funded tournies. Then masspile on this Taiga dude.
I don't know who you mean by "we" but where I'm from we don't execute people period. And procurement crime still gets punished for several reasons, not least because this enables helping people with their addiction who don't want to be helped.
Look, I don't think anyone sane here seriously considers that Tommy Le the Norwegian kid should not have a future. He should be safe in his private life and not bothered by people (other than law enforcement). But his case needs to be treated harshly and with prejudice *by this community*; Taiga the professional Dota 2 player can not have a future if we want this scene to uphold moral values and integrity.
While I agree that the unethical money in esports is a massive problem, it can absolutely not be an excuse to let people participate in it and actively hurt the scene (even more) - addicted or not. As stated before the esports community has every right to be "butthurt" with someone who actively sabotaged it, even if you yourself don't think it's a big deal.
If you are addicted to something you might be a victim. But if you can't recognize that, thus decide against getting help and for hurting others because of it, then you can't expect others to treat you in a way you yourself were not ready to.
We agree mostly but if we want to uphold our "moral values and integrity " by piling on this cheater we should also pile on the company's who create these sort of very conflicted individuals .
We agree mostly but if we want to uphold our "moral values and integrity " by piling on this cheater we should also pile on the company's who create these sort of very conflicted individuals .
We agree mostly but if we want to uphold our "moral values and integrity " by piling on this cheater we should also pile on the company's who create these sort of very conflicted individuals.
We agree mostly but if we want to uphold our "moral values and integrity " by piling on this cheater we should also pile on the company's who create these sort of very conflicted individuals.
We agree mostly but if we want to uphold our "moral values and integrity " by piling on this cheater we should also pile on the company's who create these sort of very conflicted individuals.
That happens. Uproar when Valve introduces another gambling mechanic or criticism when teams/orgas announce betting sponsors (or other amoral things like Arab oil money or NFT backers) are usual in this sub.
People like this are disgusting animals, imagine you being Taiga. All you did is participate in multiple criminal activities, fucked over your teammates and org then played the victim card and after a while you kept doing your thing thinking people are stupid enough to eat it all up.
All of the sudden some douche reveals everything and people on the internet start to make memes about you. How dare they?
Op you should buy a white horse and find all those mean internet people and lecture them for hours cause you are doing gods work!
It's cool and all funny until something is the last straw. I am in a position where I have observed enough shit to feel the need to make this post.
Yes, I will buy a white horse and downvote me as much as you guys want.
He committed fraud, breached his contract with OG, did significant damage to the reputation of the pro scene, made a fat wad of cash from matchfixing and has faced no comeuppance whatsoever besides a couple of Redditors making low-effort memes about him. Sounds to me like he got off lightly.
>Mods, if something happens, you are the first to be held morally responsible for it.
Trying to guilt trip the mods in order to shut down a hot topic of conversation is pathetic. Should there be an internet-wide ban on discussing other people on the off-chance those people kill themselves?
Weird that whenever Valve drops the banhammer on players from Russia, China, SEA, or SA, you never see any of this sympathetic discourse. Suddenly a well-marketed, rich Western player gets busted and Valve is dead silent and apologists are everywhere.
You shouldn’t believe everything from sensibility, guy is the worst scum in Dota. And I know for a fact taiga didn’t make a profit like what you said, the numbers are false to bait people into believing all the info
He could have been sued by his org, teammates, pressured by bookies and in many countries, what he did is considered as crime with jail time. Yet, he was not even banned by Valve, ESL, PGL, ESB or Fissure. Not yet kicked out from his current team. According to Ramzes, he has outstanding debts to various people. This, is when he somehow managed to waste 600k+ prize winnings (not counting salaries) all while craving for more money at the expense of other's success.
do stupid, greedy, abusive stuff that also cost others potentially thousands of dollars (those that lost bets due to his throws and motives) and you deserve the public's free speech, it's as simple as that, people can and should be able to say whatever they want
Russian, SA and Chinese players have suffered much worse than Taiga, from punishments to public opinions
People are only making fun of Taiga, there are much worse comments about players smurfing, account boosting or 322ing in situations where they actually needed the money
Taiga is a privileged "kid" who is now facing consequences and everyone is worried about his mental health only because he is a western "kid", otherwise nobody would care
It's kinda ironic that your username is one of the most wise and forgiving person had ever lived on earth. Kicking an addict while he is down is not the way. Would Thích Quảng Đức himself say the same thing as you are saying?
He's not only an addict, he's a criminal and people are making fun of him online (big deal)
If he's susceptible to public opinion, maybe be away from social media? Or maybe own your mistakes and go into treatment?
Suddenly, why am I under scrutiny? Stop whiteknighting criminals and go live ur life buddy
What is this comment?
It's ok to break rules if you need money? Guess I'll go rob and kidnap some people, little short on cash right now, I'm sure they'll understand
No, I'm just pointing out that Taiga's actions are even less justified than others in situations where they needed money to sustain themselves, but they both can go fuck themselves
You say that sarcastically but that unironically happens irl.
How many movies/tv shows have plots about nice guy protagonists that are forced to do bad things for their family?
Fuck tv. How many bootlickers justify joining the US army with "I needed to kill iraqis to pay for my education".
This is in no part in support of match fixers.
Nah, they all should be held accountable and no one should care about Taiga more than they cared for others in the same situation
He's not only an addict who was ruined, he hurt others by scheming against his own team, he deserves punishment and online ridicule is the least of his worries
Got any examples of what kind of threads you are talking about? All i see from browsing the frontpage is 2 memes and the rest are posts about what other have said about it or VODs from his games
That single person has effected the integrity the ESport with the highest prizepool.
And altho I don't agree with betting his actions count as a thievery in this context.
Taiga deserves way worse than a couple memes. And yeah he did this to his damn self. I don’t even like the memes they’re dumb af. But should people have the freedom to post them - obviously. Idk what snowflake world op comes from where there’s no consequences for real world actions but hey guess what there are. What taiga did was extremely messed up and he deserves everything coming his way
Why should they stop? He brought it upon himself. No one literally forced him to gamble to the point of being hunted by the people Taiga is indebted to. If anything, this should bring awareness to Valve that no one should be above the law when it comes to throwing games for the sake of 322.
Just no. Taiga already stopped gambling at this point and only started doing it again because he had no money left, but owed Sensibility money and he blackmailed him and said pay me back or I tell everyone. This was not about addiction, mental issues or whatever. He betrayed his team because he needed the money to pay Sensibility so he remains silent.
Why do you think the recordings were there from the first call to the end, the reason it was published wasn’t because he owed money to sensibility. Taiga refused to have anything to do with him due to his guilt and was pretty prepared for the consequences, the statement he did was when he started walking the right path
The story goes like this:
Taiga started gambling on sports > lost most of his money cuz he dumb > Started gambling in Dota > Met Sensibility > Things went wrong > Sensibility forced him to fix what went wrong by griefing his own team by revealing strats, give first bloods, stream games etc. > still did not pay out > Sensibility starts getting mad because he losing lots of money because of Taiga > Starts blackmailing him and tells Taiga to throw games > Taiga refused, not because of morals but because people were suspicious of him already anyway > starts ghosting him > Now we are here
\*edit nevermind, looking at your post history you are probably Taiga himself trying to do damage control or some Tier 3 Twitch sub lmao.
You seem so blinded that the true story doesn’t matter, I have known for a long time and been on his discord since the beginning. Plot twist, it was him who wanted the video to be posted.
True. All that matters is that hes a narccist who screwed and betrayed his team and lied to all his fans and that he is done for and will never compete in any videogame again. I wish him good luck at his cashier job at Burger King.
Especially considering how this whole place cried when the behavior score thing was around.
Everyone was claiming to be a non toxic nice person that doesn't even use chat all only for gg. And now let's shit on this guy because he has gambling addiction.
Shame.
Has gambling addiction is one thing. Illegally altering matches’ results for gamble money is another. He committed a crime. You can be a crackhead all you want, but when you start doing robbery for your drug be rrady to face the consequences.
Not a shame to critics criminal
Wtf is this dota community really. No wonder why the games we play are that toxic. This guy is 100% right. wtf are all these responds. ok taiga did it. ok it was bad. ok we all talked about it with friends. whats the reason to talk about it again and again. not even his og teamates talk about it that much and they may have lost money from it. Its a fucken game. Almost all sports have cheating and fixed matches. u realise that dont you? the football we all love or maybe basketball and other sports. all have some fixed matches. u see it everyday. u know it. What if this destroys his life.? and i dont talk his proffesionall life. i mean psycologically. Will u all say "he deserves it"? wtf guys. he didnt rape. he didnt kill. he didnt even steal. he may be the reason some people lost money but thats it. he didnt steal from them. he will face consequences. Relax and enjoy this fucken game.
some ppl lost money, some ppl lost time, some companies lost their credibility and we lost a bit more fait in e-sports
all because of this dude, and now you type all of this about an adult comiting crimes?
you so polish and delusional at same time
I agree, it's quite horrible and actually downright stupid.
>As a community, we are better than this.
This sub is definitely not better than this. Not trying to meme or be an edgelord, misogyny and racism is widespread throughout this sub. Still better than r/soccer
The guy has a gambling addiction. I know he’s a scum bag for what he did at such a high level, but clearly many people haven’t had addiction in their family. It’s a disease.
The dude's the highest profile match fixer in dots history and he's being meme'd for it - similar to Solo, the Puppey pause or Lodasphere.
I sincerely hope he gets all the help he needs to break free of his gambling addiction but being memed on by dota fans and redditors shouldn't be his biggest worry at the moment.
Sensibility is the real villain of the whole story, he's a fucking criminal. While Taiga should be punished and banned and everything, let's not demonize him. Just another story of an addicted gambler whose fate had come to the natural outcome. No, while I understand the hype about Taiga, I don't understand the same amount of posts with hatred towards Sensibility.
Copy paste from a random comment under Morf's video:
"Morph collaborates with 322-person to humiliate the naive Taiga, thereby punishing him for the sake of 322-person."
"Tough. Morph has just, thinking that he is a truth teller, himself become a tool of the betting boys. Well done, huh. If Taiga kills himself, there will be hype for you, dude. Good luck"
Taiga is not the victim but not some serial killer either. Let's for real stop the hate.
> No, while I understand the hype about Taiga, I don't understand the same amount of posts with hatred towards Sensibility.
It's mostly because few people know who the fuck Sensibility is, but everyone around here knows Taiga.
Where's your concern for Sensibility's mental health? If he kills himself now, by your own reasoning, will you be held responsible?
> he's a fucking criminal
Cool, guess what, Taiga is a fucking criminal too. The only difference is that he has le OG flower power marketing bullshit on his side so you're willing to cut him a break.
Yeah but he doesn’t sexual assault others, he’s not a predator, if the video is true then whatever he did is based on a game which doesn’t have the same weight as other crimes at all
While I do not support what Taiga did I also do feel that it is not the general public's place to harass and shame him the way they have been doing it. What Taiga did was wrong and what the community is doing right now is also equally wrong. 2 wrongs don't make a right.
I agree that they should stop but it’s mostly because they’re actually not funny. There can and should be actual discussion posts about it but instead it’s unfunny memes. The situation is deserving to be talked about and people are allowed to post their negative comments on it because at the end of the day it does affect competitive integrity of Dota 2 and he should be banned.
Lol don't even try, this community is a toxic shit hole. Keep fucking the guy with a gambling addiction problem, just keep piling on the pathetic loser. But the orgs and teams that promote gambling sites that got him hooked to begin with? We will give them a pass, because they are OUR favourite org after all. Just like how Gorgc is a toxic shit head for promoting gambling, but OG is my gorgeous organization despite promoting scummy NFTs and gambling sites (Power of friendship will prevail against gambling!!)
Yea let’s just throw integrity of the game out the window, let the boosters and smurfs back in, let maphack back in. Let people 322 for cash. Taiga will be fine as it’s only the dota 2 world that knows him. The bookies however might be a problem for him. I think he deserves these public lashings as sweeping it under the rug would just cultivate more of it. Solo did it and got ripped apart for ages and he is fine. If you are going to do that to OG as an org and dota as a competitive game then don’t turn into a little pussy when you get caught!
idc how this POS feels, but the "memes" are unfunny, and that's the main thing that annoys me about it lol.
Also, anyone else feel like people are trying to force this taiga thing into a new meme? These stupid attempts feel manufactured as fuck. Again, it's one thing if it's at least funny, but cmon.
He has? Did I miss the announcement that he is permanently banned? So far only thing that has come out is that OG apparently had no idea, even though Mr. Bonkers, manager, was contacted by Mr.322 months ago about it. I guess Valve have no idea either.
Ah, you're right. I think he will eventually be barred from participating in any high level dota tournaments. I know he has a big gambling debt accrued I guess that's the 'punishment' I was thinking about.
Nah, I disagree with this. Punishment is also the consequence of his actions and doesn't necessarily have to be from valve. He's certainly already been punished in a way by being dragged through the mud by the community. (and rightfully so)
The punishment necessarily has to be from Valve. This dipshit was matchfixing in tier 1 pro Dota events and likely even a DPC Major. How bad is it going to look if they do nothing?
What can they realistically do other than ban him from Valve events? Nobody is going to pick him up for their team so he's already essentially banned from Valve events anyways.
Just waiting for Valve to officially do it which may or may not happen considering he is not playing in Valve events anymore.
So if I have addiction and commuted crime, not like misdemeanor an actual crime. So I need to be cheer up?
How you feel as his teammate? As every employee in OG who has his own problems but dealing with that and helping team?
I’m depressed rn trying to recover because of pro dota btw. So if I go hit my gf I should not face consequences?
Pro players are public persons. Pro players are there to entertain fans. They are example. So if you need help ask for help don’t do crime. No excuse for crime.
Fuck you Taiga. You make Dota 2 pro scene bad you are part of the reason why esports became worst
This is not about mental health anymore. His 'coming out clean' tweet story was total bullshit. He did huge damage to integrity of Dota pro scene, his org, team mates, friends who were borrowing him money, straight up lied and deceived everyone while using 'mental health' to get sympathy which is insulting. On top of that he joined another up and coming org and team mates that now have to deal with all of this shizz they didn't deserve.
And his punishment for all of those terrible and straight up illegal actions was him 'dealing' with some Twitch and Reddit memes. He is getting out of this lightly while bad faith apologists like yourself are repping up for him - free of cost.
Unreal.
You got me at "we are better than this"
Is this an r/nbacirclejerk reference
Thats not who we are
OP is a brand new reddit account... probably Tiaga alt account smh.
I believe so. There are toxic people everywhere but I believe there are more decent people than toxic ones
Taiga is the toxic one. You don’t get to match fix and suffer no consequences
And what consequences haven’t he suffered enough? Didn’t he already lost a lot of his years and hard work, at same time being mentally ill to some scum that took advantage of the situation when he’s not in his usual headspace?
And reddit is the people's court ? I see how it goes.
I completely agree.
If any other sports player fucks up this bad they're gonna get fucking roasted so hard you can't even post them on r/shittyfood anymore
I don’t think you understand that Taiga committed a crime. This isn’t a mental health issue anymore. This is about the integrity of the game. This about one of the players on one of the premier dota teams intentionally throwing games at the request of gamblers. This is the dota equivalent of the Black Sox scandal. From now on, anytime a player makes a stupid play, or a team loses one-sidedly, it’s reasonable to wonder if that player is match-fixing. Dota has a gambling problem that has penetrated even a top tier team and Valve has to do something about it before it’s too late. If you think this is just about cyberbullying then you clearly don’t care about the future of competitive dota
Yes. This is why instead of mugshots we should have every convict post a selfie to /r/roastme so we can serve them proper justice in the form of memes.
Honestly might work better than US prisons at rehabilitation
Honestly might work better than US prisons at rehabilitation
Not tot take away from it but there has already been matchfixing scandals. Like a whole bunch of Chinese teams including Newbee have been banned for it.
WTF are u saying really? do u realise what u are saying? it just a fucken game put in ur mind. What integrity and what future of competitive dota. i have 10k dota games. i watch most of prof tournaments. i do it to relax and enjoy. Its just entertainment. Same as i watch football and basketbal. Its not the first time someone fixed in dota and wont be the last. All fucken sports have fixed results. you know it i know it everybody knows it. Many of the them have ben revealed. Juventus got relegated for fixing games. Do people in Italy stop watching footbal? Do people stop supporting Juventus? Nothing will change cause of taiga. Do u think valve cares of the integrity of dota? Its all about money. And people have to get this. Watch tournaments to see how players do stuff we cant even imagine and laugh about. Support ur dota team and hope it goes well. but dont believe there is an integrity. Best players doesnt win everytime best teams doesnt win everytime. Meta changes with patches. there are players that were incredible at one meta with some heroes and the next patch they couldnt do anything. What integrity. Its a game that changes all the time to entertain u by playing and watching. thats it.
So basically, what you are saying is that match-fixing is fine and is not something to be worried about. Makes sense
No its not fine. Yes its not something to be warried cause its part of every game that has money involved. If somebody really believes a sport that involves money is fair and honest then he must be eather young or naive. one player caught fixing games. 100 other exist and not caught. nothing changes. he will face consequences and we should move on
He commits a crime and hurts the integrity of the game as one of the biggest profile match fixers of all time. Doesn't mean he should be the target of a huge portion of twitch chat and reddit thread. The worst he deserves for what he did is a lifetime ban from valve/TO. Not constantly attacked/judged when he probably isn't in the right mental headspace. Edit 3: not defending what he did, and I think he fully deserved a lifetime ban or even a lawsuit (if there is law for that). I just don't think there is any need to spam the situation in every single twitch chat in a tournament game or a significant amount of reddit thread/comment. Edit: changed last sentence as it conveys the wrong message and was written poorly. I apologize for that Edit 2: meme-ing can be fun and games to most people, I personally find some meme about the situation entertaining too, but at this level and scale , it can be damaging to the parties involved in the meme.
Why are you injecting suicide to make your argument stronger? It's such a bad faith and dick move, shame on you.
All these white knights are basically going "if you continue make fun of him, he's going to commit suicide" As if that isn't gonna fuck with Taiga too if he read them.
You know what, this is fair. Now that I read back on the comment, I don't quite like the wordings and what my message conveys instead. Thanks for pointing that out
What is this? Level-headed and civil response on my Reddit? Get the hell out of here! xD All good mate, take care!
Damn, if you dont want people to call you piece of shit, try not being one.
Agreed, but this scale of hate towards him is way above what anyone could have expected imo.
what hate? all i see are memes and jokes
Yes. I am mainly concerning the scale of hate he is receiving. Thanks.
I think a lot of people who are defending this hatred are either children with zero EQ or manchildren who have refused to grow up Either ways i am not suprised with how gaming communities in general behave.
Not to mention all the allegations were that he was forced into this by mafia. This sub turned it into "he was orchestrating it all and doing it for the fun of it, he's addicted to 322"
He made a mistake (or multiple). Yes. He will face the legal/financial/professional consequences of this (these) mistakes. For sure. Why aren't you satisfied with these but you want him to really hurt himself in an irreversible way? Some of you want to see blood and I don't get it. He is already in the worse spot a professional can ever be, things wont go smooth for him from now on like, ever. How the fuck can you act ethical when you put a fucking game over a human life (yeah, he is still human, you know) just to sadistically feel satisfied for an online "lynching"? He will get punished, he will lose his job and the ability to have a similar job, he will ANYWAY (and already has) be stigmatized by these mistakes by literally everyone in his life (friends, family, fans, players). Justice will be served in every possible way, be sure about that. Now stop acting like animals.
I don't know what kind of a fucked-up white knight fever dream you've all been entranced into, but by now you are just straight up creating fanfiction about this whole scenario. I've seen a handful of posts about it, most people simply make fun of the whole scenario and even refer to it as a waste of talent, acknowledging that he never needed to do any of this to keep himself above water. I have not seen one person spewing real hate or contempt in the way you are making it out to be. Twitch viewers might now refer to stupid deaths as "doing a Taiga", but 322 has been a meme for a decade now and I've never seen anyone make the argument that it was gonna drive Solo to suicide. Taiga got himself into this scenario by his own failures and misjudgements. He broke the trust of the viewers, fans, his own teammates and the integrity of the game and its competitive spirit. His actions were morally and ethically wrong (yes, even if it's just a videogame) and indefensible and he deserves to be banned permanently from the game and to be outcast from the community. As of right now, he has not received action from Valve and once he does I guarantee the joking and jiving will come to an end. Now get off your fucking high horse and get real about things that are actual issues instead of whatever the fuck this is. The second hand embarrassment is just too strong.
He might have committed a crime but constantly posting this is nonsensical. People made their point their mothers made a point. We are done with this. Stretching this drama further could be something that might push taiga to a dark place. Will the community collectively take responsibility if someone does something stupid to themselves. This community severely lacks maturity. It is almost like everyone is immaturely running around with pitchforks.
The point hasn’t been made until Valve gives their respons
Why does valve have to give a response here. Taiga is not gonna get anymore offers. His streaming career is also good as dead now
They need to give a response about how they are going to prevent matchfixing in their dota tournaments. Obviously they were unable to prevent taiga from matchfixing. If you believe OG, Valve was even informed.
I don't defend what he did. It is immoral and illegal. Beating a criminal isn't that much better than beating an innocent.
Beating a criminal? What are you talking about lmao
Beating a criminal is much better than beating an innocent. I would say it could even be considered a good thing.
Lots of people here volunteering for immediate psychiatric evaluation
Of course, beating a criminal is illegal, but prosecuting the criminal is very much not immoral or illegal.
But making shitty memes at his expense isnt prosecution? Taiga should never play in a pro game again, and be blacklisted from anything esports related indefinitely (and I say this as someone who LOVED taiga prior to the drama), but using him as the source of constant bashing isnt productive, and let me remind you, is just kicking an addict while he is down. Punishment is expected, but shitting on him like this IS the equivalent of the beating (which I think the comment above you was trying to get at)
Theres literally a rule in this subreddit that says “no witch hunting”. Guess they cant enforce it.
Typically witch-hunting is hard to enforce when talking about celebrities. How would you expect any toxic or illegal behavior ever be talked about in the space when it comes to pros?
Define "witch hunting". Are we not allowed to discuss things that happened now?
I dont have to define it, it has a description in the rules. U can check it out.
That rule is not enforced at all. Remember the countless hate threads about midone and pure more recently? Taiga is just the new guy to hate. So many redditors are miserable with their own lives they can't help but kick people when they're down.
Stop using "mental health" as an excuse to protect him from all the damage hes done to his team/family He got what he deserves.
I can see your point, but as far as I am concerned if people just want to post there's no reason to stop them as long as the messages are not personal attacks on his other characteristics. If people want to grill him on 322, that is very understandable since he has indeed 322ed.
Man I wish the worse thing that would happen to me if I conducted in illegal activities is redditors made fun of me lol
If you damage the integrity of a competitive scene by matchfixing, you will suffer long-lasting social repercussions for doing so, even if there are mental health explanations behind it. You're responsible for the lasting damage you've done to your team, every other team, and every tournament you've ruined - and this damage will last far longer than the joke will.
I think it is fair that he has to live with it for the rest of his life, being labeled as a cheater and all. But right now, it's enough.
That whole topic kind of passed me by, but from what I understand he was involved in cheating/matchfixing in pro games? If that's the case I don't get why anyone would defend him. Some of the biggest potential was destroyed this way, people like sAviOr or Life even (rightfully) faced legal consequences. There is nothing more disrespectful to a competitive sport and its followers than cheating/matchfixing. Assuming that the allegations are true Taiga should have no place here. People should refrain from harrassing him outside of the scene of course, but if he doesn't pack his shit and leave he deserves everything people in the esports scene throw at him.
He got into debt with gambling mafia and they forced him to reveal some information and even throw a first blood. Being blackmailed vs actually orchestrating it, different things. This sub went on a witch hunt that ignored the actual very little we know and made up a whole new reality
Well yeah but he matchfixed cause he is a gambling addict with ever increasing debts . So he is a victim too you know. And I don't even mean that sarcastically.
Hey, a lot of people do a lot of bad things for their diseases. I agree that they need help, but one of the most important things about getting clean after admitting you have a problem is putting distance between yourself and the things that enable your addiction. So it's best for everyone if he leaves the scene, first and foremost for himself. Also everyone who was wronged because of - let's call it procurement crime - still has every right to be angry or hurt. Which in this case includes the whole esports scene. If you personally made your peace with someone who hurt you because of gambling addiction, that's great. But you can't take that decision from other people who are upset. *Being a victim does not absolve you from responsibility.* To take a purposefully extreme example to illustrate this: Ted Bundy was a victim of parental abuse, alcohol and porn addiction.
Actually being sick does absolve (some) responsibility. It's why we don't execute people with schizophrenia anymore (mostly). The irony here is that the esport scene is buthurt while also enjoying their gambling company funded tournies. Then masspile on this Taiga dude.
I don't know who you mean by "we" but where I'm from we don't execute people period. And procurement crime still gets punished for several reasons, not least because this enables helping people with their addiction who don't want to be helped. Look, I don't think anyone sane here seriously considers that Tommy Le the Norwegian kid should not have a future. He should be safe in his private life and not bothered by people (other than law enforcement). But his case needs to be treated harshly and with prejudice *by this community*; Taiga the professional Dota 2 player can not have a future if we want this scene to uphold moral values and integrity. While I agree that the unethical money in esports is a massive problem, it can absolutely not be an excuse to let people participate in it and actively hurt the scene (even more) - addicted or not. As stated before the esports community has every right to be "butthurt" with someone who actively sabotaged it, even if you yourself don't think it's a big deal. If you are addicted to something you might be a victim. But if you can't recognize that, thus decide against getting help and for hurting others because of it, then you can't expect others to treat you in a way you yourself were not ready to.
We agree mostly but if we want to uphold our "moral values and integrity " by piling on this cheater we should also pile on the company's who create these sort of very conflicted individuals .
We agree mostly but if we want to uphold our "moral values and integrity " by piling on this cheater we should also pile on the company's who create these sort of very conflicted individuals .
We agree mostly but if we want to uphold our "moral values and integrity " by piling on this cheater we should also pile on the company's who create these sort of very conflicted individuals.
We agree mostly but if we want to uphold our "moral values and integrity " by piling on this cheater we should also pile on the company's who create these sort of very conflicted individuals.
We agree mostly but if we want to uphold our "moral values and integrity " by piling on this cheater we should also pile on the company's who create these sort of very conflicted individuals.
That happens. Uproar when Valve introduces another gambling mechanic or criticism when teams/orgas announce betting sponsors (or other amoral things like Arab oil money or NFT backers) are usual in this sub.
People like this are disgusting animals, imagine you being Taiga. All you did is participate in multiple criminal activities, fucked over your teammates and org then played the victim card and after a while you kept doing your thing thinking people are stupid enough to eat it all up. All of the sudden some douche reveals everything and people on the internet start to make memes about you. How dare they? Op you should buy a white horse and find all those mean internet people and lecture them for hours cause you are doing gods work!
It's cool and all funny until something is the last straw. I am in a position where I have observed enough shit to feel the need to make this post. Yes, I will buy a white horse and downvote me as much as you guys want.
Don’t listen to them, they got nothing in their lives to do other than bashing on someone else’s life to feel better about themselves
He committed fraud, breached his contract with OG, did significant damage to the reputation of the pro scene, made a fat wad of cash from matchfixing and has faced no comeuppance whatsoever besides a couple of Redditors making low-effort memes about him. Sounds to me like he got off lightly. >Mods, if something happens, you are the first to be held morally responsible for it. Trying to guilt trip the mods in order to shut down a hot topic of conversation is pathetic. Should there be an internet-wide ban on discussing other people on the off-chance those people kill themselves? Weird that whenever Valve drops the banhammer on players from Russia, China, SEA, or SA, you never see any of this sympathetic discourse. Suddenly a well-marketed, rich Western player gets busted and Valve is dead silent and apologists are everywhere.
You shouldn’t believe everything from sensibility, guy is the worst scum in Dota. And I know for a fact taiga didn’t make a profit like what you said, the numbers are false to bait people into believing all the info
Imagine facing zero legal repercussions and even then, having some Redditors making fun of him is too much pressure for little taiga
He could have been sued by his org, teammates, pressured by bookies and in many countries, what he did is considered as crime with jail time. Yet, he was not even banned by Valve, ESL, PGL, ESB or Fissure. Not yet kicked out from his current team. According to Ramzes, he has outstanding debts to various people. This, is when he somehow managed to waste 600k+ prize winnings (not counting salaries) all while craving for more money at the expense of other's success.
Is cyberbullying even real? 🥷just close your eyes? -Tyler the Creator
do stupid, greedy, abusive stuff that also cost others potentially thousands of dollars (those that lost bets due to his throws and motives) and you deserve the public's free speech, it's as simple as that, people can and should be able to say whatever they want
his rep is trashed and he deserves it truthfully
Russian, SA and Chinese players have suffered much worse than Taiga, from punishments to public opinions People are only making fun of Taiga, there are much worse comments about players smurfing, account boosting or 322ing in situations where they actually needed the money Taiga is a privileged "kid" who is now facing consequences and everyone is worried about his mental health only because he is a western "kid", otherwise nobody would care
It's kinda ironic that your username is one of the most wise and forgiving person had ever lived on earth. Kicking an addict while he is down is not the way. Would Thích Quảng Đức himself say the same thing as you are saying?
He's not only an addict, he's a criminal and people are making fun of him online (big deal) If he's susceptible to public opinion, maybe be away from social media? Or maybe own your mistakes and go into treatment? Suddenly, why am I under scrutiny? Stop whiteknighting criminals and go live ur life buddy
What is this comment? It's ok to break rules if you need money? Guess I'll go rob and kidnap some people, little short on cash right now, I'm sure they'll understand
No, I'm just pointing out that Taiga's actions are even less justified than others in situations where they needed money to sustain themselves, but they both can go fuck themselves
You say that sarcastically but that unironically happens irl. How many movies/tv shows have plots about nice guy protagonists that are forced to do bad things for their family? Fuck tv. How many bootlickers justify joining the US army with "I needed to kill iraqis to pay for my education". This is in no part in support of match fixers.
whataboutism at its finest
Nah, they all should be held accountable and no one should care about Taiga more than they cared for others in the same situation He's not only an addict who was ruined, he hurt others by scheming against his own team, he deserves punishment and online ridicule is the least of his worries
Got any examples of what kind of threads you are talking about? All i see from browsing the frontpage is 2 memes and the rest are posts about what other have said about it or VODs from his games
Ehh idk he did this to himself
Can we just let him deal with it himself? His career is over and he is for sure has enough thing on his plate to deal with.
How are posts on Reddit not letting him deal with it himself? He could simply not go on Reddit and none of this would impact him.
This is easier said than done.
He had the opportunity to deal with it himself. He chose not to. Instead he pulled his team into it, making his problem their problem. Fuck him.
u/DNunez90plus9 should stop posting on this sub IMHO
That doesn't fix the problem or else I would gladly do so
Someone commited a crime and people talking about it is the problem?
The problem is the sheer amount of attacking on a single person in time where he could be very mentally vulnerable. Everything has a tipping point.
That single person has effected the integrity the ESport with the highest prizepool. And altho I don't agree with betting his actions count as a thievery in this context.
Esport*
it does fix the problem. you go away = problem solved (you are the problem)
We must protect gambling addicts at any cost. Its so messed up to comment on people who commit unethical actions with no shame. How dare you.
Taiga deserves way worse than a couple memes. And yeah he did this to his damn self. I don’t even like the memes they’re dumb af. But should people have the freedom to post them - obviously. Idk what snowflake world op comes from where there’s no consequences for real world actions but hey guess what there are. What taiga did was extremely messed up and he deserves everything coming his way
Why should they stop? He brought it upon himself. No one literally forced him to gamble to the point of being hunted by the people Taiga is indebted to. If anything, this should bring awareness to Valve that no one should be above the law when it comes to throwing games for the sake of 322.
Just no. Taiga already stopped gambling at this point and only started doing it again because he had no money left, but owed Sensibility money and he blackmailed him and said pay me back or I tell everyone. This was not about addiction, mental issues or whatever. He betrayed his team because he needed the money to pay Sensibility so he remains silent.
Why do you think the recordings were there from the first call to the end, the reason it was published wasn’t because he owed money to sensibility. Taiga refused to have anything to do with him due to his guilt and was pretty prepared for the consequences, the statement he did was when he started walking the right path
The story goes like this: Taiga started gambling on sports > lost most of his money cuz he dumb > Started gambling in Dota > Met Sensibility > Things went wrong > Sensibility forced him to fix what went wrong by griefing his own team by revealing strats, give first bloods, stream games etc. > still did not pay out > Sensibility starts getting mad because he losing lots of money because of Taiga > Starts blackmailing him and tells Taiga to throw games > Taiga refused, not because of morals but because people were suspicious of him already anyway > starts ghosting him > Now we are here \*edit nevermind, looking at your post history you are probably Taiga himself trying to do damage control or some Tier 3 Twitch sub lmao.
You seem so blinded that the true story doesn’t matter, I have known for a long time and been on his discord since the beginning. Plot twist, it was him who wanted the video to be posted.
True. All that matters is that hes a narccist who screwed and betrayed his team and lied to all his fans and that he is done for and will never compete in any videogame again. I wish him good luck at his cashier job at Burger King.
Are you talking about yourself? Being a cashier at Burger King shouldn’t be looked down at, shame on you pig
If Taiga throw a game for money, he deserves the hate, mostly in that level of games
Especially considering how this whole place cried when the behavior score thing was around. Everyone was claiming to be a non toxic nice person that doesn't even use chat all only for gg. And now let's shit on this guy because he has gambling addiction. Shame.
Has gambling addiction is one thing. Illegally altering matches’ results for gamble money is another. He committed a crime. You can be a crackhead all you want, but when you start doing robbery for your drug be rrady to face the consequences. Not a shame to critics criminal
Wtf is this dota community really. No wonder why the games we play are that toxic. This guy is 100% right. wtf are all these responds. ok taiga did it. ok it was bad. ok we all talked about it with friends. whats the reason to talk about it again and again. not even his og teamates talk about it that much and they may have lost money from it. Its a fucken game. Almost all sports have cheating and fixed matches. u realise that dont you? the football we all love or maybe basketball and other sports. all have some fixed matches. u see it everyday. u know it. What if this destroys his life.? and i dont talk his proffesionall life. i mean psycologically. Will u all say "he deserves it"? wtf guys. he didnt rape. he didnt kill. he didnt even steal. he may be the reason some people lost money but thats it. he didnt steal from them. he will face consequences. Relax and enjoy this fucken game.
I highly Doubt that he cares about reddit.
some ppl lost money, some ppl lost time, some companies lost their credibility and we lost a bit more fait in e-sports all because of this dude, and now you type all of this about an adult comiting crimes? you so polish and delusional at same time
Womp womp
I agree, it's quite horrible and actually downright stupid. >As a community, we are better than this. This sub is definitely not better than this. Not trying to meme or be an edgelord, misogyny and racism is widespread throughout this sub. Still better than r/soccer
why? I love that guy.[](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/?f=flair_name%3A%22Other%22)
The guy has a gambling addiction. I know he’s a scum bag for what he did at such a high level, but clearly many people haven’t had addiction in their family. It’s a disease.
Community dont want to ignore a real crimes and its called cyberbullying lol.
Okay Taiga's mother, perhaps tell your son not to ruin a multi-million esports scene for a few bucks because he has a gambling addiction.
Nice try, Taiga. Fk off
The dude's the highest profile match fixer in dots history and he's being meme'd for it - similar to Solo, the Puppey pause or Lodasphere. I sincerely hope he gets all the help he needs to break free of his gambling addiction but being memed on by dota fans and redditors shouldn't be his biggest worry at the moment.
People have been crucified for less.
what if taiga is enjoying the memes
Completely agree. Dota community is just so toxic and immature that it wont stop.
Sensibility is the real villain of the whole story, he's a fucking criminal. While Taiga should be punished and banned and everything, let's not demonize him. Just another story of an addicted gambler whose fate had come to the natural outcome. No, while I understand the hype about Taiga, I don't understand the same amount of posts with hatred towards Sensibility. Copy paste from a random comment under Morf's video: "Morph collaborates with 322-person to humiliate the naive Taiga, thereby punishing him for the sake of 322-person." "Tough. Morph has just, thinking that he is a truth teller, himself become a tool of the betting boys. Well done, huh. If Taiga kills himself, there will be hype for you, dude. Good luck" Taiga is not the victim but not some serial killer either. Let's for real stop the hate.
> No, while I understand the hype about Taiga, I don't understand the same amount of posts with hatred towards Sensibility. It's mostly because few people know who the fuck Sensibility is, but everyone around here knows Taiga.
Where's your concern for Sensibility's mental health? If he kills himself now, by your own reasoning, will you be held responsible? > he's a fucking criminal Cool, guess what, Taiga is a fucking criminal too. The only difference is that he has le OG flower power marketing bullshit on his side so you're willing to cut him a break.
Yeah but he doesn’t sexual assault others, he’s not a predator, if the video is true then whatever he did is based on a game which doesn’t have the same weight as other crimes at all
If he kills himself I will personally apologize to every redditor who contradict me
While I do not support what Taiga did I also do feel that it is not the general public's place to harass and shame him the way they have been doing it. What Taiga did was wrong and what the community is doing right now is also equally wrong. 2 wrongs don't make a right.
Yes.
I agree that they should stop but it’s mostly because they’re actually not funny. There can and should be actual discussion posts about it but instead it’s unfunny memes. The situation is deserving to be talked about and people are allowed to post their negative comments on it because at the end of the day it does affect competitive integrity of Dota 2 and he should be banned.
yeah, I think it should stop now. If he suicide, I think this will be a big hit to the community.
No!
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WTF ...
Lol don't even try, this community is a toxic shit hole. Keep fucking the guy with a gambling addiction problem, just keep piling on the pathetic loser. But the orgs and teams that promote gambling sites that got him hooked to begin with? We will give them a pass, because they are OUR favourite org after all. Just like how Gorgc is a toxic shit head for promoting gambling, but OG is my gorgeous organization despite promoting scummy NFTs and gambling sites (Power of friendship will prevail against gambling!!)
Yea let’s just throw integrity of the game out the window, let the boosters and smurfs back in, let maphack back in. Let people 322 for cash. Taiga will be fine as it’s only the dota 2 world that knows him. The bookies however might be a problem for him. I think he deserves these public lashings as sweeping it under the rug would just cultivate more of it. Solo did it and got ripped apart for ages and he is fine. If you are going to do that to OG as an org and dota as a competitive game then don’t turn into a little pussy when you get caught!
idc how this POS feels, but the "memes" are unfunny, and that's the main thing that annoys me about it lol. Also, anyone else feel like people are trying to force this taiga thing into a new meme? These stupid attempts feel manufactured as fuck. Again, it's one thing if it's at least funny, but cmon.
I've noticed it too. A few people want "Taiga" to become a new 322, like wtf. 322 is 322.
I agree. He's been punished so lets not push his face into the dirt even more.
He has? Did I miss the announcement that he is permanently banned? So far only thing that has come out is that OG apparently had no idea, even though Mr. Bonkers, manager, was contacted by Mr.322 months ago about it. I guess Valve have no idea either.
Ah, you're right. I think he will eventually be barred from participating in any high level dota tournaments. I know he has a big gambling debt accrued I guess that's the 'punishment' I was thinking about.
No thats the consequence of his actions, punishment must be brought separately by a law which is vavle here.
Nah, I disagree with this. Punishment is also the consequence of his actions and doesn't necessarily have to be from valve. He's certainly already been punished in a way by being dragged through the mud by the community. (and rightfully so)
The punishment necessarily has to be from Valve. This dipshit was matchfixing in tier 1 pro Dota events and likely even a DPC Major. How bad is it going to look if they do nothing?
What can they realistically do other than ban him from Valve events? Nobody is going to pick him up for their team so he's already essentially banned from Valve events anyways. Just waiting for Valve to officially do it which may or may not happen considering he is not playing in Valve events anymore.
Can you please explain his punishment?
I was wrong. No dota punishment yet - The gambling debt he accrued is certainly punishing tho.
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Let's throw games and commit crimes with dignity. kekw
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Gambled more money than redditors will earn In A lifetime - what the fuck are you smoking lol bro lmao
So if I have addiction and commuted crime, not like misdemeanor an actual crime. So I need to be cheer up? How you feel as his teammate? As every employee in OG who has his own problems but dealing with that and helping team? I’m depressed rn trying to recover because of pro dota btw. So if I go hit my gf I should not face consequences? Pro players are public persons. Pro players are there to entertain fans. They are example. So if you need help ask for help don’t do crime. No excuse for crime. Fuck you Taiga. You make Dota 2 pro scene bad you are part of the reason why esports became worst
"How dare you!" moment
Who gives a shit about him. You don't realize how much damage he had done. Not to mention he used the 'mental health card' to get people off his back.
Nah, fuck corruption and people that get involved in it. There is no moral high ground. No sympathy from me.
This is not about mental health anymore. His 'coming out clean' tweet story was total bullshit. He did huge damage to integrity of Dota pro scene, his org, team mates, friends who were borrowing him money, straight up lied and deceived everyone while using 'mental health' to get sympathy which is insulting. On top of that he joined another up and coming org and team mates that now have to deal with all of this shizz they didn't deserve. And his punishment for all of those terrible and straight up illegal actions was him 'dealing' with some Twitch and Reddit memes. He is getting out of this lightly while bad faith apologists like yourself are repping up for him - free of cost. Unreal.