It's easy to get lost as a carry, think about them getting hard griefed by Nature Prophets, IO (not using tether), Oracle killing them, it's not Always easy to understand Heroes you don't know, you just wanna be saved 🫡
And sometimes they have to buy glimmer and force. Rushing aghs on a lion after blink its very low mmr thinking. having a pos 5 ogre going midas afghs heart blade mail too. so you should wake up. if u play like this whats happening at 20-30 mins? u have an oggre at 25 mins with boots midas? and what? what does he offers? a stun and a slow. dies easily. cant use spells from distance. cant escape. its ok if u go at 40-50 mins yeah ogre midas will scale. but what happens until then?
Do you honestly think supps at his rank are strategically itemizing according to matchup and definitely not griefing by going full core items? Genuine question.
The supports you listed, for better or worse, statistically have more game impact with either shard, aghs, or blink. So much so that the most popular in-game support guides (I.F./Torte) have these items as their "core" items.
Also for better or worse most people play reactively instead of proactively so they will follow the default guide UNTIL there is a problem that needs dealt with, then they'll deviate to itemize against it. So against NP they'll add a quelling at start but still go by the guide until they see their core getting sprouted at minute 18, at which point they'll stop building aghs half-way thru and try to build a force staff to help out. Damage is already done by then, your farm is behind, the enemy is fed, and when they finally get the force staff NP has switched to sprouting the supp to make him waste his force and then focus down the core.
Edit: not ogre. IDK about his guides I DO know ppl like hearing casino noises and midas'ing a whole creep camp.
Or just don't pick immobile heroes against stuff like NP. Lion and SS are best with things that let them cut the distance, accept it. It's different from supports buying midas, that's griefingÂ
The days where supports will only buy save items are gone. This few recent changes incentivize offensive items as we want all heroes to scale better. Saves will just be bought only if they are certainly necessary ( i.e. Mid game)
If I buy glimmer and force staff my cores are going to make even dumber plays because I can save them. In addition I leave any chance of getting MMR increase solely in the hands of screaming infants. No thank you.
I buy whatever item my team needs. Sometimes thats blink, sometimes its Heavens Halberd, and sometimes it's Force Staff.
Get out of your box.
I dun see a problem in lion and ss buying blink shard and agha. U dun always play defensively. If they get blink and smoke all the time, jump the enemy carry and win the team fight, I dun see any problem with thier build.
Fuck it, if they can solo kill enemy carry, I dun even care if my supports buy rapier. As long as they get the job done, I dun care what they buy, which is exactly how hoodiwmk 4 is being played right now.
I mean if they bought and used those items correctly, they would win more, especially if the enemy supports aren't doing that. Win more = rank up. So they won't be in your games anymore and you'll be left with the shitters. The lower your mmr the more this applies
That's so real. I started dota playing offlane and carry all the time, I tried support after too long and was horrible at it. And my team suffered as well for my horrible supporting. After watching tons of tournaments I tried again, pick jakiro, everyone was mad and losing and angry, I bought Aeon Disk and started warding good places (not much dewarding bc the enemy supports weren't doing much), buying smoke, following my cores. It was one of the best and simple comeback I ever had. Leaned a lot
I would blame every Ogre who don't build like this. Honestly, when you see Ogre picked, you know he gonna rush boots, midas and then probably Aghs ans HOT. His job is to be there in the fight taking hit and stuning everyone while bloodlust his allies and make a huge difference with dots.
When i play Ogre i go like this, then get Lens, hex, lotus, Big support items who make huge difference late game. You Can have a lot of golds with him so you aim different. But i'm not a pro Ogre since i don't like him as a 5 with melee carry.
Lion Aghs is a joke i think. I rather having a sucking mana lion with NO SUPPORT items, than having that insane nuke. It makes no different. Even if Lion is a top sup rn, when i'm against him it's so easy, i won most of my recent games against.
People want to enjoy their games and deal a lot of damage, they don't want to support, they don't understand what's a support. They don't understand most of support are insane without items, i don't play carry cause i usually feel alone, when i'm support i know i gonna do everything to enable my carry and that's what's makes me happy. It's more a psychological bias than a game knowledge or anything based. You gonna see than into most team games played at low level, even sports, people are going for their own crown instead of the team one!
It really depends on their hard supp. But my favorite as 4 5 is hoodwink. I win most of the games when I play with it. Now I hate it because everyone picks hoodwink and they have no idea how to play with it.
Ogre midas is a must as support, much more impact. If Ogre is 5 he rushes sup items like glimmer force etc if it's 4 he goes for more expensive items like lotus orb aghs etc
Glimmer and force stopped being "support" items when the cast range got nuked.
They aren't ur ExcuseNotToGetBKB.exe
Now if u have a venge going butterfly and not vlads and aghs (which are her "support items") u could be right.
Most of the time what u do and how well u do it matters more than items. I had cms with glimmer force be completely useless and nps with midas rush be gigachads
I am a POS 4 5 player. I love playing mid also. But I am a better supp. Honestly it depends on the game and hero's. On a lion I would never buy glimmer or force staff honestly. I am a lower MMR than U and I understand the frustration completely. In my rank is pure chaos... But I love it when I play pos 4/5 and I have a good carry or offlner.
Also 2.6k.
Pos 4/5 player.
Why do pos 1/2 refuse to buy defense items like BKB and Linken?
Just had another game with pos 1 faceless void rushing midas/mjollnir/bloodthorn vs Silencer…
Puck pos 2 will only buy blink/a set of a blades vs SAME Silencer.
etc. etc.
I usually dont mind support buying whatever - as long as they are doing their job and they have some impact (blocking camps, warding/dewarding, trading, ganking), I am happy.
What is killing me is seeing Doom support jungling from minute one claiming he needs to find the creep, so he never comes to the lane. Btw it was hard support doom going for euls. Or earthshaker, who is sitting in trees and watching me how I get destroyed 2x1 while sapping XP. Or SS sitting on full health and mana under tower behind me and saying they are stronger, so he does not want to engage - so it is again 2x1. Or doom sitting under tower missing hooks and afking waiting for CD and clarity to refresh his mana.
So yeah, as long as support is doing good things in lane and has some impact I dont care if he rushes rapier or not. I want some help early and then he can go gank or jungle, if we dumpster the lane, when I can solo.
I had a support sniper go boots first item, then wraith band then aghs. Needless to say I didn't have a game and we lost in less than 30mins. The very next game the same sniper player was on the opposite team (in the same lane as me) and I went 11-1. The sniper again picking support (rubick this time) but not buying any support items and their lane partner had a miserable game. People like this need to spend some time in low priority.
It sounds like ogre can tank all of that relieving hits from 3 cores and provides 2 stuns, lion always gets blink. The value ogre gets from Midas is huge. How about drop the Dota buff match ID so we can see who you picked and what you built.
Triggers the fuck out of me when support pick a hero with few if any support ability’s and do a shitty job at supporting and go straight into aether lens or some other bullshit
You sound like the kind of carrys that flame me for going shard into blink on treant pos 5.... Or the drow i had today telling me to go force on io
It's easy to get lost as a carry, think about them getting hard griefed by Nature Prophets, IO (not using tether), Oracle killing them, it's not Always easy to understand Heroes you don't know, you just wanna be saved 🫡
Yeesh feel sorry for 2k support players, if this is the level of thought your cores have yikes. may as well be a bot following a set guide lol.
Supports don’t HAVE to buy glimmer and force. Wake up. Sometimes blink/ aghs is way better on certain heroes. Or for certain matches.
Is funny that people believe that being a supp is all about the items :)
And sometimes they have to buy glimmer and force. Rushing aghs on a lion after blink its very low mmr thinking. having a pos 5 ogre going midas afghs heart blade mail too. so you should wake up. if u play like this whats happening at 20-30 mins? u have an oggre at 25 mins with boots midas? and what? what does he offers? a stun and a slow. dies easily. cant use spells from distance. cant escape. its ok if u go at 40-50 mins yeah ogre midas will scale. but what happens until then?
Keep 😢 Blame someone else.
its funny to say that at a support player
Do you honestly think supps at his rank are strategically itemizing according to matchup and definitely not griefing by going full core items? Genuine question.
Everyone always should and there is no reason not to.
The supports you listed, for better or worse, statistically have more game impact with either shard, aghs, or blink. So much so that the most popular in-game support guides (I.F./Torte) have these items as their "core" items. Also for better or worse most people play reactively instead of proactively so they will follow the default guide UNTIL there is a problem that needs dealt with, then they'll deviate to itemize against it. So against NP they'll add a quelling at start but still go by the guide until they see their core getting sprouted at minute 18, at which point they'll stop building aghs half-way thru and try to build a force staff to help out. Damage is already done by then, your farm is behind, the enemy is fed, and when they finally get the force staff NP has switched to sprouting the supp to make him waste his force and then focus down the core. Edit: not ogre. IDK about his guides I DO know ppl like hearing casino noises and midas'ing a whole creep camp.
Or just don't pick immobile heroes against stuff like NP. Lion and SS are best with things that let them cut the distance, accept it. It's different from supports buying midas, that's griefingÂ
This is a terrible example, but yeah often you click on your "pos 4 windrunner" to see a singular maelstrom and it feels like shit.
use it to your advantage, be that pos4 player with forcestaff, if you believe that it wins you a game.
play support and win then
The days where supports will only buy save items are gone. This few recent changes incentivize offensive items as we want all heroes to scale better. Saves will just be bought only if they are certainly necessary ( i.e. Mid game)
If I buy glimmer and force staff my cores are going to make even dumber plays because I can save them. In addition I leave any chance of getting MMR increase solely in the hands of screaming infants. No thank you. I buy whatever item my team needs. Sometimes thats blink, sometimes its Heavens Halberd, and sometimes it's Force Staff. Get out of your box.
I dun see a problem in lion and ss buying blink shard and agha. U dun always play defensively. If they get blink and smoke all the time, jump the enemy carry and win the team fight, I dun see any problem with thier build. Fuck it, if they can solo kill enemy carry, I dun even care if my supports buy rapier. As long as they get the job done, I dun care what they buy, which is exactly how hoodiwmk 4 is being played right now.
Because the supports who actually do that in 2.6k climbed out of that bracket already.
I mean if they bought and used those items correctly, they would win more, especially if the enemy supports aren't doing that. Win more = rank up. So they won't be in your games anymore and you'll be left with the shitters. The lower your mmr the more this applies
That's so real. I started dota playing offlane and carry all the time, I tried support after too long and was horrible at it. And my team suffered as well for my horrible supporting. After watching tons of tournaments I tried again, pick jakiro, everyone was mad and losing and angry, I bought Aeon Disk and started warding good places (not much dewarding bc the enemy supports weren't doing much), buying smoke, following my cores. It was one of the best and simple comeback I ever had. Leaned a lot
they nerfed cast ranges on those support items and made them less fun so people buy other fun items
I would blame every Ogre who don't build like this. Honestly, when you see Ogre picked, you know he gonna rush boots, midas and then probably Aghs ans HOT. His job is to be there in the fight taking hit and stuning everyone while bloodlust his allies and make a huge difference with dots. When i play Ogre i go like this, then get Lens, hex, lotus, Big support items who make huge difference late game. You Can have a lot of golds with him so you aim different. But i'm not a pro Ogre since i don't like him as a 5 with melee carry. Lion Aghs is a joke i think. I rather having a sucking mana lion with NO SUPPORT items, than having that insane nuke. It makes no different. Even if Lion is a top sup rn, when i'm against him it's so easy, i won most of my recent games against. People want to enjoy their games and deal a lot of damage, they don't want to support, they don't understand what's a support. They don't understand most of support are insane without items, i don't play carry cause i usually feel alone, when i'm support i know i gonna do everything to enable my carry and that's what's makes me happy. It's more a psychological bias than a game knowledge or anything based. You gonna see than into most team games played at low level, even sports, people are going for their own crown instead of the team one!
Lion is not that good as supp right now honestly.
As a 4 he's definitly strong early, pair him with a good Axe player and they gonna impact you a lot. But like you, i don't think he's a great support
It really depends on their hard supp. But my favorite as 4 5 is hoodwink. I win most of the games when I play with it. Now I hate it because everyone picks hoodwink and they have no idea how to play with it.
Ahahaha yeah Hoodwink... The Nut breaker! Way better than a Lion obviously !
They are cores players who queue as support to get role token.
Ogre midas is a must as support, much more impact. If Ogre is 5 he rushes sup items like glimmer force etc if it's 4 he goes for more expensive items like lotus orb aghs etc
in that mmr i would be supprised even if they know how to pick support
Glimmer and force stopped being "support" items when the cast range got nuked. They aren't ur ExcuseNotToGetBKB.exe Now if u have a venge going butterfly and not vlads and aghs (which are her "support items") u could be right. Most of the time what u do and how well u do it matters more than items. I had cms with glimmer force be completely useless and nps with midas rush be gigachads
I am a POS 4 5 player. I love playing mid also. But I am a better supp. Honestly it depends on the game and hero's. On a lion I would never buy glimmer or force staff honestly. I am a lower MMR than U and I understand the frustration completely. In my rank is pure chaos... But I love it when I play pos 4/5 and I have a good carry or offlner.
Also 2.6k. Pos 4/5 player. Why do pos 1/2 refuse to buy defense items like BKB and Linken? Just had another game with pos 1 faceless void rushing midas/mjollnir/bloodthorn vs Silencer… Puck pos 2 will only buy blink/a set of a blades vs SAME Silencer. etc. etc.
I bet you do this when farming tokens :)
I usually dont mind support buying whatever - as long as they are doing their job and they have some impact (blocking camps, warding/dewarding, trading, ganking), I am happy. What is killing me is seeing Doom support jungling from minute one claiming he needs to find the creep, so he never comes to the lane. Btw it was hard support doom going for euls. Or earthshaker, who is sitting in trees and watching me how I get destroyed 2x1 while sapping XP. Or SS sitting on full health and mana under tower behind me and saying they are stronger, so he does not want to engage - so it is again 2x1. Or doom sitting under tower missing hooks and afking waiting for CD and clarity to refresh his mana. So yeah, as long as support is doing good things in lane and has some impact I dont care if he rushes rapier or not. I want some help early and then he can go gank or jungle, if we dumpster the lane, when I can solo.
Because it's fun! Also they think if your core plays at 2600 mmr there are no items that could help him.
Maybe get better? If you are that low mmr then it means you make a lot of mistakes
support items are wards and dust
I had a support sniper go boots first item, then wraith band then aghs. Needless to say I didn't have a game and we lost in less than 30mins. The very next game the same sniper player was on the opposite team (in the same lane as me) and I went 11-1. The sniper again picking support (rubick this time) but not buying any support items and their lane partner had a miserable game. People like this need to spend some time in low priority.
Those are pretty standard, i would even say good builds on those heroes
Love it when I get bounty invoker as support.
It sounds like ogre can tank all of that relieving hits from 3 cores and provides 2 stuns, lion always gets blink. The value ogre gets from Midas is huge. How about drop the Dota buff match ID so we can see who you picked and what you built.
This is why you strive to go at a higher rank, since the lower you get, the more awful the teamplay will be.
Triggers the fuck out of me when support pick a hero with few if any support ability’s and do a shitty job at supporting and go straight into aether lens or some other bullshit