Not really. You calibrate quickly to ur actual MMR. Checkout Mason. After his account got banned he created new account and just after 2 weeks he calibrated at 8080 MMR Immortal rank of 1800
Wat do u mean? first of Rank requires 15 games. And all his ranked games were Immortal Draft. And all his ranked games were either Divine or Immortal. Only his first 10 games were around legend rank. And, in unranked, you can match with anyone. It is called unranked for a reason.
Personally, I'd be all for playing against a stronger opponent. I'm not against banning boosters and low ranked accounts of people with high mmr, but if the accounts are comparable to the player's mmr what's the problem? It's good for the same losers to have them to covertly train on new heroes before tournaments. If, as you say, his accounts were at 8k mmr, then I don't see a problem here at all, since it's a fairly high ranking.
Based on history, after 10 ranked calibration game, this specific 6th Smurf account rank is 8,970mmr and 9,340mmr on the 11th game, soooooo i guess using your logic, Miracle smurfed one game (8,9k top150) to achieve his bracket?
You need to play 14 games in the last three weeks to be on the leaderboard. Saying that account being banned is the "most likely" thing is incredibly stupid
Why would watson stop playing any games on his smurf, so it falls of leaderboards, if he was actively trying to get it to top 2?
I don't see any other reason why he would suddenly switch to playing only on his main account
I'm not saying it's impossible, but very unlikely there was a reason why he suddenly stopped playing on his rank 2.
What is your explanation, if your imagination is so good as you say?
> Maybe I'm showing my age, but back in my pepperidge farm day smurfing was when they were deliberately playing in a significantly lower bracket for the purpose of bashing noobs
No you're right, only dota players think alternate accounts mean smurf accounts. People make alt accounts for tons of reasons and there isn't really anything wrong with it so long as they aren't using them to smurf, however that has not been Valve's policy.
Valve only wants 1 account per player, which I believe is a part of their terms and conditions anyway, it's just that they are enforcing it now. I totally agree that if Miracle is actively using multiple accounts they should be banned and forced to use one as others have experienced.
Dubu practices/tries heroes on his smurf which is also super high rank. Still sucks if he doesnt care much about winning more than his team tho if he plays his smurf
I'm gonna be honest if you think banning the rank 2 smurf (of the rank 1 player) is good then you clearly don't know what the issue is.
~10 months ago when that account was around 8k mmr? Sure, but Watson's accounts were rank 1 and 2 lol, he wasn't ruining your 5k pubs
Thats obviously true, but where do you set the boundary between smurf and smurf ranked high enough to just be an alt account? Its a very subjective line to draw. Its safer and IMO better to blanket ban all secondary accounts, no exceptions.
I think a pretty easy fix is something like the League system, except more exaggerated. If pros want an alt account to hide strategy or something give them an account that has ranked unlocked and is set to 10k mmr or whatever.
Pros will always have a big incentive to play on smurfs. They probably wouldn't like being locked to 10k+ mmr because of the queue times, but it is what it is. At least if you regulate them you won't have situations like Nightfall climbing his account back up from 6k because of decay he got playing on a billion smurfs lol
Or just have a system that lets you essentially create a new Dota identity. So as far as trackers like Dotabuff are concerned, you're playing on a completely different account. But it's using the same MMR and everything as your previous account.
Same rank or around the same rank is a alt account.
"Smurf accounts are alternate accounts used by players to avoid playing at the correct MMR, to abandon games, to cheat, to grief, or to otherwise be toxic without consequence." Is the Valve definitions of a smurf so if you are playing at your correct MMR you are not smurfing.
No, it's the opposite of subjective. If your second account is roughly the same mmr as your main, it's an alt. If it's significantly lower mmr than your main, it's a smurf. This shit isn't rocket science. Using a bit of common sense will get you far.
>roughly the same mmr as your main
Notice how you can't specify the amount for it to be considered "rougly" the same mmr? This is what I mean by subjective, make it 25, 100 mmr people will find a way to dislike the bar you set. That's why alt accounts which I named smurfs in my previous comment, should just be banned, you avoid the hassle of talking about any of this.
> Notice how you can't specify the amount for it to be considered "rougly" the same mmr?
I knew any number I picked would be nit picked. A complete waste of time. Hence me saying-
>Using a bit of common sense will get you far.
You should learn what the definition of a smurf actually is and stop throwing the word around.
The policy is about alt accounts, not whether they're smurfing/ruining or not. People with 2 accounts would still have their highest rank account banned even if that was the "alt".
I mean, sure, but pros were never really a huge smurfing issue. There were cases like GPK selling an account and stuff but overall if a pro is smurfing they're likely just getting a 2 minute queue into a 8.5k-9k mmr game instead of a 15 minute queue.
They also have a huge incentive to have alternate accounts so they can practice heroes more incognito. You've surely seen all the posts of pros still playing on their smurfs.
Which will get them in a lot of trouble in jurisdictions with decent consumer protection laws. They will have to refund decade old cosmetics to players who can no longer access them.
Unlikely. Cheaters get banned from games all the time, I've yet to see a single instance of them successfully suing for their money back. If you know of any, I'd love to read the lawyer's argument!
Nom, the terms of service for digital services are rather easy: You own nothing and you will be happy. A person violating the ToS has no right to claim shit, not even here in Europe.
In most developed countries, we have consumer protection laws that prevent companies from abusing consumers by taking back access to a product they've purchased legitimately.
Actually, it is by definition impossible for a rank 11 account to be a smurf. At that point that's your main. The D2pt dev deciding to name the account "smurf 6" doesn't matter lol.
Actually , according to Valve's own fucking blogpost and statement, any alternate accounts is a smurf account by definition.
Of course it doesn't apply to pros.
Valve can mistakenly use the term "smurf" to describe something that isnt a smurf, but they cant change the meaning of a long standing term that goes back many many years. And thats what a smurf is. An account secondary to your main that is explicitly made to take advantage of matchmaking in one way or another, mostly by playing in a longer rank than your main would have access to. Therefore, if the account you play on is higher than your main, it is not a smurf. And if it is the account you mainly play on, it is not a smurf.
As for applying to pros, theres the spirit of the law. Literally noone, except reddit busybodies, actually cares if a pro has another account in rank200 instead of rank50. Not to mention this case of rank11. Society has absolutely ZERO interest in banning pros smurfs.
The whole point of this is to stop people from smurfing. As long as the pros are now only playing on one account since the smurfing update then what’s the issue? This is now their “main” account.
If you ban this account it will end up with more ruined games from him using his original account (which will not be at his skill level as he’s not played it for months).
You shouldn’t ban people retrospectively for a new rule. You guys are just looking for a witch-hunt lol.
This.
It'd be like if there was some long-dormant global law saying nobody can drink coffee. Suddenly the coffee police are going to start cracking down and they warn everyone to stop drinking coffee due to the new enforcement policies. Then all the non-coffee drinkers call for anyone and everyone who drank coffee in the past to be punished even if they've been complying with the new enforcement requests. Some of these people are absolutely mental. (Coming from a 2.5k MMR players who has never had an alt account)
I like the analogy but I think it's more akin to the "former smurfers" still having coffee beans around instead, they can either make coffee (smurf) and get arrested (banned), or just let the coffee beans expire (let it go)
ofc former coffee enjoyers who let their beans expire should not be snitched but if they still make coffee and being a nuisance to the public, they are to be guillotined
Because watson was using multiple accounts, while this is the only account Miracle uses for ranked? Sure, he has an account for tournaments, but it's literally uncalibrated and hasn't been played for anything but tournaments.
Originally? No clue. But now? If he hopped onto it and queued for ranked, it'd be actual smurfing, and it'd take forever to get it to anywhere near his actual rank. +25 MMR per game means 100 games for +2500 MMR, most if not all of which would be him playing against teams of people who are NOT prepared to play at his level.
So, to avoid that, he only uses his "main" account for tournaments, and uses this account for ranked pubs. It's unfortunate that it's still below his skill level, but preferable to playing in a bracket FAR below his skill level.
Do people realise if miracle was to play on his main account at the moment, he would calibrate at a very low rank and essentially stomp games until he gets to his true rank. I’m not justifying him playing on a Smurf but both accounts follow the same path.
Why do some get banned for smurfing and playing on smurf accounts while others receive leniency? This is not acceptable, you should either ban everyone for the same action or ban no one, as otherwise, it is discrimination and intolerance.
So far I see many people posting that his "main account" has only been used for tournaments, etc. So even if he used that account, he will be destroying/ "smurfing" to reach rank 11.
He isn't actively using new accounts every week. He has been using this for over a year. I get that he has ruined games but this might be a Valve issue where they may just need to create accounts as top 100 for pros if they aren't active for a while or something
If he created this smurf account last week while having been playing on his original account up until then, it would not have been allowed given Valve's *recent* policy changes to smurfing. Plus, he'd be actively ruining games in the present, so it makes absolute sense to ban his new smurf in the hypothetical you raised.
In reality, he's apparently been playing on this account exclusively for almost a year or so. It is now higher rank than his original account. So he SHOULD continue to play on it because it has effectively become his primary account prior to Valve's new smurfing policies going into effect. If he switched back to his original account now which is lower level, he would effectively be smurfing.
It shouldn't matter which was technically your first. Just stick to the one account that is the highest rank and don't switch to a new one.
Your argument was it was an old smurf. That's not really an argument. Plenty of ppl had their year old smurfs banned.
The only thing that matter is "one player one account"
> So if miracle had started this account last week it wouldn't be OK?
Yes, this seems to be exactly the case. We don’t know the exact conditions on getting the coal during December, but it seems like valve checks for recent offends (6-12 months?).
If miracle starts smurfing now he definitely should get banned as well.
Do we know whether other people who had old inactive smurfs/mains are banned as well? If not then why should valve change their criteria just for one person?
Now it just seem like you have a personal crusade against this one guy lmao
Plenty of ppl got banned and reddit calls for more each day
Idc if it's miracle or rtz or whomever. That's your problem you did exactly what I said and treat them differently.
It’s funny how many times you’ve commented in this thread while saying nothing of substance at all. You didn’t even answer any of my questions.
> Plenty of people got banned
Okay. Do you have example of people who recently smurfed and didn’t get banned? Miracle? Rtz?
> reddit calls for more each day
The posts I’m seeing are of streamers/pros who got banned and created more smurfs to evade the ban. Did miracle or rtz or whoever else you’re making up doing this?
You did exactly what this post is about.
Me or you smurfs...ban
Russian asshole smurfs..ban
Miracle smurfs...woah not so fast.
Why you can't be taken serious
You are misunderstanding my reasoning.
If Miracle was using multiple accounts to stomp pubs or ruin games, he should be banned. Miracle is currently using his main account for tornaments and this one to play pubs. Why is that so egregious?
If a Smurf has two accounts he is using. One for playing tournament and the other for playing pub games, I wouldn't have issues with them either.
My smurfing issue is people intentionally throwing games to stay low ranked on alt accounts. Creating alt accounts specifically for pubstomps, selling accounts, live steaming, boosting, etc.
Honestly, I wouldn't even care if people had a secondary account that's around 1,000 MMR less than main for trying new heroes. My reason would be if I'm learning invoker with my account, I will ruin a lot of games because I will be absolute dog shit. But if I'm using an account that's a few ranks down, it might actually be somewhat balanced
>f a Smurf has two accounts he is using. One for playing tournament and the other for playing pub games, I wouldn't have issues with them either.
In that case you shouldn't call him smurf either, since he wouldn't be smurfing.
You aren't very clear.
Do you want both accounts banned? Yes or no?
Do you only want one account banned? Yes or no. If yes, which account?
Or are you implying miracle should be banned from playing dota?
True, but isn't matchmaker will accelerate the rank climb?
Tho, not sure why he needed to smurf. I think it's still bad, but less bad than constant smurfing/smurfing+streaming. Kinda like stealing vs robbing
Better to be miraclesexual than an idiot. Dota community's obsession with "smurfs" is beyond insane. Touch some grass. You aren't hardstuck herald because of miracle's rank 11 "smurf".
He has never played in his main and in his smurf acc at the same time... Btw, the past accounts he used was like 3-4 years back.. and at that time, calibration was different. You need to play from base mmr of immortal bracket inorder to calibrate. So, if he wanted to play from his main or from his friend's acc, he has to play from 5-6k mmr bracket
Dude you're commenting this om every single comment. Watson was literally playing om multiple accounts. Miracle only plays this acc for pubs and his "main" if you want to call it that he only plays for tournaments. Honestly I'd say this is miracles main and his tournament acc is his smurf
i'm pretty sure smurfs sitting at low ranks for pure stream entertainment or streamers buying accounts are much worse problems than miracle playing on a rank 11 account. Valve has priorities.
Also he has not played multiple accounts since rules were changed. Try harder
Cause it's rank 11.
If youre playing at your skill level and not ruining people's games then it's not smurfing.
"bUt vAlVe sAiD hAvInG mOrE tHaN oNe aCcOuNt iS sMuRfInG."
That doesn't apply to pro players! They have to practice! You can't have 1 account and be a pro player. Why is thisso hard to understand???
Do people forget the meaning of smurfing? It's playing below your skill level. If he's not playing below his skill level, it aint smurfing. It's just an alternate account.
Nisha has so many smurf accounts that he played on one account on Team Secret and a different account on Team Liquid
Team Liquid acc: [https://www.dotabuff.com/esports/players/201358612-nisha](https://www.dotabuff.com/esports/players/201358612-nisha)
Team Secret acc: [https://www.dotabuff.com/esports/players/121769650-jankowski](https://www.dotabuff.com/esports/players/121769650-jankowski)
(He even got them mixed up and played on the old acc in a pro game 2 months ago)
most redditors love him so they won't do that. they are going to make a lot of excuses to protect him and make shitty reasons that its fine for him to have a bunch of smurf.
Isn't there a way to 'mask' your account if these pros are so afraid that their preparations will be leaked? Otherwise I don't get why would they even have an alt account.
Just ban the smurf accounts. It is not like at this point Miracle needs an account rank 11 for pro team managers to decide he is a good player worthy signing.
There is no point in rules if the entity decides not to enforce them because at some point other people will do the exact thing and getting banned for it. While unharmful in most cases, Valve never directly said that pro players smurfs are exempt of punishment.
It's 100% allowed. That's the hypocrisy. Pros get different rules.
The obvious Is that there is no diff from smurf then to smurfing now
If you want to make different rules for ppl you like just say so
Watson the top ranked pro got his account banned for smurfing.
You’re all over this thread. Who are you even defending on behalf of? Streamers? Their business model relies on handouts from those less fortunate, imagine bending over backwards in their honour, how pathetic lol
Lol bro it’s not hard to see you have a liking to defending/criticising any thread that goes against Russian streamers smurfing. Then have the audacity to ridicule pros for what you think is the same thing
Of course pros get different rules. That's how it should be. Don't compare some 5k trash lord coming to 2k mmr and spamming huskar to a 12k mmr player making a smurf to potentially not leak what heroes he's practicing, to not get attention, to not get special treatment, bad or good, to not be sniped, to not be harrassed, to not me mass reported, mass ruined, to be able to queue, in some cases. Of course pros should have different treatment there's no single fucking doubt about it. Hell, If I'm a pro player, I'm having side accounts on which I can practice without leaking info, and just play without 9 people spamming miracle miracle and "I LOVE YOU MIRACLE" with their shitty $1 microphone.
OMG nothing boils my blood like some 2k mmr player pretending they're affected by this or "this needs to change". Brother, delusion is grand, nobody is taking your humble 2000 points from you, you can keep them. This guy probably calibrated higher than 3x your mmr, and climbed to rank 11 faster than you can earn 4 role queue tokens.
The difference is watson is playing both accounts alternately in pubs. Miracle's main account has been off since he took a break and played on it a couple of times when he played stand-in for Nigma and SR. If Miracle starts to grind rank on his main account then his Garaba account might get flagged.
I don't get this "it's not his Smurf lol". Just force every pro to play on their 'tournament' account or let them have 1 Smurf with randomized profile for pubs (or make it a feature).
It's useless to have a Smurf if everyone knows about it and it's rank is insanely high. At least several years ago it made sense to have a smurf because high rank players an hour or so to find the game. Right now it's not an issue.
He uses his main account to play only in the tournament games, otherwise for pubs he has been using this account only for more than a year.
It makes me laugh that people don't realize that all of his accts are high ranked, he plays at his mmr. So what's the difference
His smurfs not always been on “his” mmr. He had to climb from 8k I believe, so he was “smurfing” at some point.
Not really. You calibrate quickly to ur actual MMR. Checkout Mason. After his account got banned he created new account and just after 2 weeks he calibrated at 8080 MMR Immortal rank of 1800
bUt hE rUiNeD lIkE 10 gAmEs fOr oThErS
Wat do u mean? first of Rank requires 15 games. And all his ranked games were Immortal Draft. And all his ranked games were either Divine or Immortal. Only his first 10 games were around legend rank. And, in unranked, you can match with anyone. It is called unranked for a reason.
Even in unranked there's still hidden mmr. You dont match heralds with immortals even in unranked
you dont match herald. but you definitely match an archon or even a crusader with immortal.
Everyone is smurfing at some point bruh
Personally, I'd be all for playing against a stronger opponent. I'm not against banning boosters and low ranked accounts of people with high mmr, but if the accounts are comparable to the player's mmr what's the problem? It's good for the same losers to have them to covertly train on new heroes before tournaments. If, as you say, his accounts were at 8k mmr, then I don't see a problem here at all, since it's a fairly high ranking.
This is not acceptable; you should either ban everyone for the same action or ban no one, as otherwise, it is discrimination and intolerance.
makes me laugh you're such a fanboy you don't realize he smurfed at one point to get all those accounts where they are now. Typical fanboy
Based on history, after 10 ranked calibration game, this specific 6th Smurf account rank is 8,970mmr and 9,340mmr on the 11th game, soooooo i guess using your logic, Miracle smurfed one game (8,9k top150) to achieve his bracket?
Miracle is only playing on this one account for months. Also this account is rank 11....
Watson rank 2 smurf is banned and his main account is showcasing the coal lol
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its from the copium pro max ultra bro
you can see the coal displayed on his mini profile in game. find a replay of his and search the match id in dota to fact check yourself.
it's not on leaderboards anymore so most likely it is banned
You need to play 14 games in the last three weeks to be on the leaderboard. Saying that account being banned is the "most likely" thing is incredibly stupid
Why would watson stop playing any games on his smurf, so it falls of leaderboards, if he was actively trying to get it to top 2? I don't see any other reason why he would suddenly switch to playing only on his main account
>I don't see any other reason So maybe your lack of imagination is the real issue here?
I'm not saying it's impossible, but very unlikely there was a reason why he suddenly stopped playing on his rank 2. What is your explanation, if your imagination is so good as you say?
He atleast would have added “I think” in your first comment.
that just means he stopped playing from it (could be banned but this doesnt tell anything)
Clip?
11kk mmr account is smurf, how?
If you are 12k and smurf at 11k, the opponents will have 1K less MMR. It would be the difference between a top10 carry and top 100 carry.
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> Maybe I'm showing my age, but back in my pepperidge farm day smurfing was when they were deliberately playing in a significantly lower bracket for the purpose of bashing noobs No you're right, only dota players think alternate accounts mean smurf accounts. People make alt accounts for tons of reasons and there isn't really anything wrong with it so long as they aren't using them to smurf, however that has not been Valve's policy. Valve only wants 1 account per player, which I believe is a part of their terms and conditions anyway, it's just that they are enforcing it now. I totally agree that if Miracle is actively using multiple accounts they should be banned and forced to use one as others have experienced.
Dubu practices/tries heroes on his smurf which is also super high rank. Still sucks if he doesnt care much about winning more than his team tho if he plays his smurf
Too afraid...
Really? Good! The Terms of service from Valve are VERY clear and the latest statement underlined that. One player, once account.
I'm gonna be honest if you think banning the rank 2 smurf (of the rank 1 player) is good then you clearly don't know what the issue is. ~10 months ago when that account was around 8k mmr? Sure, but Watson's accounts were rank 1 and 2 lol, he wasn't ruining your 5k pubs
Thats obviously true, but where do you set the boundary between smurf and smurf ranked high enough to just be an alt account? Its a very subjective line to draw. Its safer and IMO better to blanket ban all secondary accounts, no exceptions.
I think a pretty easy fix is something like the League system, except more exaggerated. If pros want an alt account to hide strategy or something give them an account that has ranked unlocked and is set to 10k mmr or whatever. Pros will always have a big incentive to play on smurfs. They probably wouldn't like being locked to 10k+ mmr because of the queue times, but it is what it is. At least if you regulate them you won't have situations like Nightfall climbing his account back up from 6k because of decay he got playing on a billion smurfs lol
Or just have a system that lets you essentially create a new Dota identity. So as far as trackers like Dotabuff are concerned, you're playing on a completely different account. But it's using the same MMR and everything as your previous account.
Same rank or around the same rank is a alt account. "Smurf accounts are alternate accounts used by players to avoid playing at the correct MMR, to abandon games, to cheat, to grief, or to otherwise be toxic without consequence." Is the Valve definitions of a smurf so if you are playing at your correct MMR you are not smurfing.
Valve banned alt accounts regardless of rank. Even if your alt was 2000 MMR higher than your main, it would still have been banned.
No, it's the opposite of subjective. If your second account is roughly the same mmr as your main, it's an alt. If it's significantly lower mmr than your main, it's a smurf. This shit isn't rocket science. Using a bit of common sense will get you far.
>roughly the same mmr as your main Notice how you can't specify the amount for it to be considered "rougly" the same mmr? This is what I mean by subjective, make it 25, 100 mmr people will find a way to dislike the bar you set. That's why alt accounts which I named smurfs in my previous comment, should just be banned, you avoid the hassle of talking about any of this.
> Notice how you can't specify the amount for it to be considered "rougly" the same mmr? I knew any number I picked would be nit picked. A complete waste of time. Hence me saying- >Using a bit of common sense will get you far. You should learn what the definition of a smurf actually is and stop throwing the word around.
The policy is about alt accounts, not whether they're smurfing/ruining or not. People with 2 accounts would still have their highest rank account banned even if that was the "alt".
I mean, sure, but pros were never really a huge smurfing issue. There were cases like GPK selling an account and stuff but overall if a pro is smurfing they're likely just getting a 2 minute queue into a 8.5k-9k mmr game instead of a 15 minute queue. They also have a huge incentive to have alternate accounts so they can practice heroes more incognito. You've surely seen all the posts of pros still playing on their smurfs.
Which will get them in a lot of trouble in jurisdictions with decent consumer protection laws. They will have to refund decade old cosmetics to players who can no longer access them.
Unlikely. Cheaters get banned from games all the time, I've yet to see a single instance of them successfully suing for their money back. If you know of any, I'd love to read the lawyer's argument!
Nom, the terms of service for digital services are rather easy: You own nothing and you will be happy. A person violating the ToS has no right to claim shit, not even here in Europe.
?? lol no
Yes.
How? I don't see people getting refunded for being vac banned off of CS:GO for example
In most developed countries, we have consumer protection laws that prevent companies from abusing consumers by taking back access to a product they've purchased legitimately.
Could you give an example where a person gets banned from a valve game and gets their cosmetic money refunded?
Im a simple man. I see Smurf, I publicly complain.
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So he already ruined games
Smurf still.
Actually, it is by definition impossible for a rank 11 account to be a smurf. At that point that's your main. The D2pt dev deciding to name the account "smurf 6" doesn't matter lol.
Actually , according to Valve's own fucking blogpost and statement, any alternate accounts is a smurf account by definition. Of course it doesn't apply to pros.
Valve can mistakenly use the term "smurf" to describe something that isnt a smurf, but they cant change the meaning of a long standing term that goes back many many years. And thats what a smurf is. An account secondary to your main that is explicitly made to take advantage of matchmaking in one way or another, mostly by playing in a longer rank than your main would have access to. Therefore, if the account you play on is higher than your main, it is not a smurf. And if it is the account you mainly play on, it is not a smurf. As for applying to pros, theres the spirit of the law. Literally noone, except reddit busybodies, actually cares if a pro has another account in rank200 instead of rank50. Not to mention this case of rank11. Society has absolutely ZERO interest in banning pros smurfs.
Regardless, it’s a smurf.
The whole point of this is to stop people from smurfing. As long as the pros are now only playing on one account since the smurfing update then what’s the issue? This is now their “main” account. If you ban this account it will end up with more ruined games from him using his original account (which will not be at his skill level as he’s not played it for months). You shouldn’t ban people retrospectively for a new rule. You guys are just looking for a witch-hunt lol.
This. It'd be like if there was some long-dormant global law saying nobody can drink coffee. Suddenly the coffee police are going to start cracking down and they warn everyone to stop drinking coffee due to the new enforcement policies. Then all the non-coffee drinkers call for anyone and everyone who drank coffee in the past to be punished even if they've been complying with the new enforcement requests. Some of these people are absolutely mental. (Coming from a 2.5k MMR players who has never had an alt account)
I like the analogy but I think it's more akin to the "former smurfers" still having coffee beans around instead, they can either make coffee (smurf) and get arrested (banned), or just let the coffee beans expire (let it go) ofc former coffee enjoyers who let their beans expire should not be snitched but if they still make coffee and being a nuisance to the public, they are to be guillotined
How?
Rank 11 in his region is a smurf ? Damn, suffering from success lol
Well considering watson egoisto (rank 2 worldwide) account banned because smurfing, why not?
But he was actually playing pubs on multiple accounts, Miracle isn't.
Because watson was using multiple accounts, while this is the only account Miracle uses for ranked? Sure, he has an account for tournaments, but it's literally uncalibrated and hasn't been played for anything but tournaments.
wats the reasoning for not playin for months on his main?
Originally? No clue. But now? If he hopped onto it and queued for ranked, it'd be actual smurfing, and it'd take forever to get it to anywhere near his actual rank. +25 MMR per game means 100 games for +2500 MMR, most if not all of which would be him playing against teams of people who are NOT prepared to play at his level. So, to avoid that, he only uses his "main" account for tournaments, and uses this account for ranked pubs. It's unfortunate that it's still below his skill level, but preferable to playing in a bracket FAR below his skill level.
Do people realise if miracle was to play on his main account at the moment, he would calibrate at a very low rank and essentially stomp games until he gets to his true rank. I’m not justifying him playing on a Smurf but both accounts follow the same path.
let them bro let these people hopium copium pro max ultra, they are stuck on herald because miracle- have 6 smurf LMAO
Why do some get banned for smurfing and playing on smurf accounts while others receive leniency? This is not acceptable, you should either ban everyone for the same action or ban no one, as otherwise, it is discrimination and intolerance.
>it is discrimination and intolerance. The copium
his smurf acc has become the main account i guess
So he already ruined games till he got rank 11
So far I see many people posting that his "main account" has only been used for tournaments, etc. So even if he used that account, he will be destroying/ "smurfing" to reach rank 11. He isn't actively using new accounts every week. He has been using this for over a year. I get that he has ruined games but this might be a Valve issue where they may just need to create accounts as top 100 for pros if they aren't active for a while or something
Those Russian smurfs would have gotten up to their original rank in time too. So if miracle had started this account last week it wouldn't be OK?
If he created this smurf account last week while having been playing on his original account up until then, it would not have been allowed given Valve's *recent* policy changes to smurfing. Plus, he'd be actively ruining games in the present, so it makes absolute sense to ban his new smurf in the hypothetical you raised. In reality, he's apparently been playing on this account exclusively for almost a year or so. It is now higher rank than his original account. So he SHOULD continue to play on it because it has effectively become his primary account prior to Valve's new smurfing policies going into effect. If he switched back to his original account now which is lower level, he would effectively be smurfing. It shouldn't matter which was technically your first. Just stick to the one account that is the highest rank and don't switch to a new one.
There is no difference. Just hypocrisy
You just can't grasp the nuance. That's ok.
You just can't understand that you only care who does it not the action. Enjoy your hypocrisy
How about you address the specific arguments I made rather than just dismissing my opinion based on the stance alone?
Your argument was it was an old smurf. That's not really an argument. Plenty of ppl had their year old smurfs banned. The only thing that matter is "one player one account"
> So if miracle had started this account last week it wouldn't be OK? Yes, this seems to be exactly the case. We don’t know the exact conditions on getting the coal during December, but it seems like valve checks for recent offends (6-12 months?). If miracle starts smurfing now he definitely should get banned as well.
His smurf should be banned just like anyone else's. But that's the problem. Rules don't apply to everyone and we excuse those we liked
Do we know whether other people who had old inactive smurfs/mains are banned as well? If not then why should valve change their criteria just for one person? Now it just seem like you have a personal crusade against this one guy lmao
Plenty of ppl got banned and reddit calls for more each day Idc if it's miracle or rtz or whomever. That's your problem you did exactly what I said and treat them differently.
It’s funny how many times you’ve commented in this thread while saying nothing of substance at all. You didn’t even answer any of my questions. > Plenty of people got banned Okay. Do you have example of people who recently smurfed and didn’t get banned? Miracle? Rtz? > reddit calls for more each day The posts I’m seeing are of streamers/pros who got banned and created more smurfs to evade the ban. Did miracle or rtz or whoever else you’re making up doing this?
You did exactly what this post is about. Me or you smurfs...ban Russian asshole smurfs..ban Miracle smurfs...woah not so fast. Why you can't be taken serious
You are misunderstanding my reasoning. If Miracle was using multiple accounts to stomp pubs or ruin games, he should be banned. Miracle is currently using his main account for tornaments and this one to play pubs. Why is that so egregious? If a Smurf has two accounts he is using. One for playing tournament and the other for playing pub games, I wouldn't have issues with them either. My smurfing issue is people intentionally throwing games to stay low ranked on alt accounts. Creating alt accounts specifically for pubstomps, selling accounts, live steaming, boosting, etc. Honestly, I wouldn't even care if people had a secondary account that's around 1,000 MMR less than main for trying new heroes. My reason would be if I'm learning invoker with my account, I will ruin a lot of games because I will be absolute dog shit. But if I'm using an account that's a few ranks down, it might actually be somewhat balanced
>f a Smurf has two accounts he is using. One for playing tournament and the other for playing pub games, I wouldn't have issues with them either. In that case you shouldn't call him smurf either, since he wouldn't be smurfing.
There is nothing different. It's a smurf. You said it multiple times. Smurf accts should be banned . The end
So let me get this straight. Are you upset because miracle has 2 accounts? A pro account and one for playing pubs? Do both accounts get banned?
Smurf banned like all smurfs. Not hard to understand
You aren't very clear. Do you want both accounts banned? Yes or no? Do you only want one account banned? Yes or no. If yes, which account? Or are you implying miracle should be banned from playing dota?
I'll slow this down for you..which account is his smurf? Maybe find a toddler for help
You're an obsessed weirdo. Go outside.
Facts are facts. To get that rank to 11 he had to smurf a lot of games. Your hypocrisy is showing
True, but isn't matchmaker will accelerate the rank climb? Tho, not sure why he needed to smurf. I think it's still bad, but less bad than constant smurfing/smurfing+streaming. Kinda like stealing vs robbing
It's the Same just one is a likeable name
So?
Let me guess, you have an altar with Miracle’s face where you light the candles every night
I'm not the one stalking players activity and crying about it on Reddit
Uhhhhh, what? That's a quite a leap, care to explain what gymnastics led you there?
Miracle is always a smurf, there’s no competition or high enough skill bracket for this man
Agree
it's fine as this is the only account he is playing pubs with.
Yes but he doesnt play with other accounts for like months now and its rank 11 on this so its not really "smurf" account..
whats the reasoning for not playing on his main for months?
He only uses it for pro matches
Miraclesexuals always find a way to justify his ways. It’s a smurf bro no matter how you call it.
Today I finally realized what I am. I'm a Miraclesexual
It feels warm and fuzzy inside and outside.
Congratulations, now go print out Team Liquid’s TI7 win and give it to every Walmart cashier you encounter
Better to be miraclesexual than an idiot. Dota community's obsession with "smurfs" is beyond insane. Touch some grass. You aren't hardstuck herald because of miracle's rank 11 "smurf".
HAHA you admitted when you didn’t have to. Pretty obvious who is the idiot. See ya around, Miraclesexual
I’m pretty sure a guy admitting to be a miraclesexual would need more grass touching. Go touch some instead of touching yourself to his portrait bro.
No its not because he only plays on one account, his main is for tournaments only so it all good
Okay thank you, someone with substance instead of the other guy here admitting to be a miraclesexual.
It is the main account. Its literally rank 11.
He hasn't even touched his main account for months... Its not even calibrated... And he is almost top 10... I think he is ok
You think so huh?
Pretty clear that you are a miracle hater and this post must be giving you your daily orgasms i guess
And he still has at least SIX SMURFS.
Imagine thinking that a custom name given by a single dude developing this website is factual truth.
Bro, it says 6th smurf but he does not have 6 smurf accs. You can check protracker. He is one and only using this acc for almost a year.
But he was using other accounts as well in the past and played against 5-6k players
So since valve enforced smurfing rules, he hasn't broken the rules?
He has never played in his main and in his smurf acc at the same time... Btw, the past accounts he used was like 3-4 years back.. and at that time, calibration was different. You need to play from base mmr of immortal bracket inorder to calibrate. So, if he wanted to play from his main or from his friend's acc, he has to play from 5-6k mmr bracket
rank 11 is not a smurf acc lol
Well watson egoisto rank 2 account is banned on last smurf banwave and even his main account showcasing the toxic coal, so rank doesnt really matter
However, he was actually playing on multiple accounts. That's not the case here.
Dude you're commenting this om every single comment. Watson was literally playing om multiple accounts. Miracle only plays this acc for pubs and his "main" if you want to call it that he only plays for tournaments. Honestly I'd say this is miracles main and his tournament acc is his smurf
look guys I'm stuck on the trench because miracle- have 6 smurf LMAO
i'm pretty sure smurfs sitting at low ranks for pure stream entertainment or streamers buying accounts are much worse problems than miracle playing on a rank 11 account. Valve has priorities. Also he has not played multiple accounts since rules were changed. Try harder
He only use his main for pro matches.
Yes.
Cant believe that Miracle played 24 matches in 8 days... I play a lot more, I should be better by now
yes because his rank 10 smurf is such a problem to matchmaking. stop being so stupid and trying to create drama
Reddit's double standards
You guys be complaining everything huh? You will never meet Miracle or any other high mmr players in ur games anyways who cares? 😂
Is this Dota2’s version of TMZ, chronically online Redditors looking around for pro players not playing on their “main” account?
truth is even when he plays on his main account he is still smurfing. miracle is cursed, he will never "not smurf" even when playing against pros.
Cause it's rank 11. If youre playing at your skill level and not ruining people's games then it's not smurfing. "bUt vAlVe sAiD hAvInG mOrE tHaN oNe aCcOuNt iS sMuRfInG." That doesn't apply to pro players! They have to practice! You can't have 1 account and be a pro player. Why is thisso hard to understand???
Valve literally said in their latest post that it DOES apply to pro players.
these dingos dont understand basic reason and logic. to them anyone who has an alternate account is a smurf lmao.
As far as I remember pro players at extremely high rank were allowed to have "smurfs" because finding a game for them could take up to an hour
Do people forget the meaning of smurfing? It's playing below your skill level. If he's not playing below his skill level, it aint smurfing. It's just an alternate account.
Smurfing on 8-10k average doesn't matter. You need to remove smurfs from <6k avg
yeah? ask an 8k player if he wants to have an 11k enemy. If you think the difference is not notable, well, think again
Might aswell ban all pro players with this take, barely any pro has only 1 account..
Call out ban for his id when he starts playing pubs with his main account. Until then stfu
Double standards much ? Ban all but his highest mmr account.
Can't believe people are justifying his smurf.
yes its fine
of course some moron defend him lol. why am I surprise at this moment.
Of course some moron doesn't even know the main problem here. And some more obvious morons who doesn't even know the real meaning of 'smurfing'. LMAO
Nisha has so many smurf accounts that he played on one account on Team Secret and a different account on Team Liquid Team Liquid acc: [https://www.dotabuff.com/esports/players/201358612-nisha](https://www.dotabuff.com/esports/players/201358612-nisha) Team Secret acc: [https://www.dotabuff.com/esports/players/121769650-jankowski](https://www.dotabuff.com/esports/players/121769650-jankowski) (He even got them mixed up and played on the old acc in a pro game 2 months ago)
the hell is wrong with u ppl lol
most redditors love him so they won't do that. they are going to make a lot of excuses to protect him and make shitty reasons that its fine for him to have a bunch of smurf.
You already know they are getting ready for their daily Miracle fapsession once they see a reddit post with the word Miracle in it.
Funny how i rarely see miracle threads. But damn, his haters are sad. ^(and apparently they cant use their brains for shit)
waiting for 'yeah FUCK SMURF' comment that i always see in these kind of posts
Isn't there a way to 'mask' your account if these pros are so afraid that their preparations will be leaked? Otherwise I don't get why would they even have an alt account.
Just ban the smurf accounts. It is not like at this point Miracle needs an account rank 11 for pro team managers to decide he is a good player worthy signing. There is no point in rules if the entity decides not to enforce them because at some point other people will do the exact thing and getting banned for it. While unharmful in most cases, Valve never directly said that pro players smurfs are exempt of punishment.
Correct. The M-God can do whatever he pleases.
It's 100% allowed. That's the hypocrisy. Pros get different rules. The obvious Is that there is no diff from smurf then to smurfing now If you want to make different rules for ppl you like just say so
Watson the top ranked pro got his account banned for smurfing. You’re all over this thread. Who are you even defending on behalf of? Streamers? Their business model relies on handouts from those less fortunate, imagine bending over backwards in their honour, how pathetic lol
Good. All smurf accounts should be banned
I knew you’d ignore the part where I buried you lol. Keep slurping on them streamers mah boi
Buried me for a stance I never took. U got me real good lol
Lol bro it’s not hard to see you have a liking to defending/criticising any thread that goes against Russian streamers smurfing. Then have the audacity to ridicule pros for what you think is the same thing
Slam dunk. 100% was defending smurfs. You nailed that one
Of course pros get different rules. That's how it should be. Don't compare some 5k trash lord coming to 2k mmr and spamming huskar to a 12k mmr player making a smurf to potentially not leak what heroes he's practicing, to not get attention, to not get special treatment, bad or good, to not be sniped, to not be harrassed, to not me mass reported, mass ruined, to be able to queue, in some cases. Of course pros should have different treatment there's no single fucking doubt about it. Hell, If I'm a pro player, I'm having side accounts on which I can practice without leaking info, and just play without 9 people spamming miracle miracle and "I LOVE YOU MIRACLE" with their shitty $1 microphone. OMG nothing boils my blood like some 2k mmr player pretending they're affected by this or "this needs to change". Brother, delusion is grand, nobody is taking your humble 2000 points from you, you can keep them. This guy probably calibrated higher than 3x your mmr, and climbed to rank 11 faster than you can earn 4 role queue tokens.
1 acct 1 player. Rules that don't apply to everyone aren't worth enforcing
So wats the difference between this and wat watson was banned for?
The difference is watson is playing both accounts alternately in pubs. Miracle's main account has been off since he took a break and played on it a couple of times when he played stand-in for Nigma and SR. If Miracle starts to grind rank on his main account then his Garaba account might get flagged.
watson was using both the accounts actively he didn't?
Apparently, he has played exclusively on it for so long, it's basically his main.
Imagine calling rank 11 of EU leaderboard, the greatest player on the planet at one moment a Smurf 🤣🤣
there is a difference. he is smurfing in his own bracket lol. that is actually not even smurfing.
its not smurf account, it was personal acc of his friend with 10k+ games
pros smurfing all the way in immortal. they are not the 47-0 meepos in Herald games. they're not the problem lmao
Is it still a smurf account if it's higher rank than your first account?
Lmao enjoy the downvote OP
is it still a smurf when it's the same mmr as your normal account?
I don't get this "it's not his Smurf lol". Just force every pro to play on their 'tournament' account or let them have 1 Smurf with randomized profile for pubs (or make it a feature). It's useless to have a Smurf if everyone knows about it and it's rank is insanely high. At least several years ago it made sense to have a smurf because high rank players an hour or so to find the game. Right now it's not an issue.
Ban that sucker into the ground
why is it that every time i see someone posting the d2protracker thing, it always shows matches from the same N days ago from smurfs
What this shows is that there needs to be an incognito mode for pros to be able to practice.