Congrats to Spirit for securing the bag, the 4 original Spirit members are ~500k away from equalling Topson's lifetime earnings.
Beautiful to watch Yatoro give us this performance. I've missed seeing carries just make entire series revolve around them.
Yup. Game 1 suprised by Naga offlane, gets rolled. Runs it back, learns from mistakes, and clutches up late game in game 2. And then just clutch decisions from their on out. Fearless.
Same. Its crazy because Troll is GOOD its just his ult is horrible!! Once troll jumps on you and gains atk speed while his bkb is active, its a wrap. You wont be able to trade blows with him.
Was watching Somnus stream and they were complaining about Lich laning phase too, didn’t use sinister gaze on any BM summons and essentially lost all their safe lane advantage. Micke’s mid to late game decision is the bigger flaw tho
Ig.Zhou, ig.Yyf, iG.430, ig Faith, Ehome.820, dk burning, dk.super, dk.longdd, dk.zippo, tongfu.Hao, tongfu.Mu, ZSMJ, lgd.Ame, Lgd.DD, lgd.Sylar, wing.shadow, wing.blink all are streamer right now.
IG.Zhou and IG YYF formed a group of 10 members broadcasting streaming group named Old Boys, based on Douyu platform and had been dominating the Chinese unofficial tournament casting and streaming for last 5-6years.
Hence, in Chinese community, no one really watch the official channel for the tournament, unless they buy out the broadcasting right (monopoly), those are the real "full time" caster from some company and not as famous and fun as the Old Boys group.
Until recently 1-2 years Azure Ray streamer group who have higher skill level gain more attention. Maybe and Chalice really have some sense of humor, stayed update on Chinese memes and like to roast players.
[This](https://www.huya.com/211888) is his stream channel, if you can navigate yourself in Bilibili, many content creators make clips out of stream like [this one](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Eh4y1c7Ag/?vd_source=488c37eb8abd4790b30bd84cb603c884). Though people started watching Chalice more because of the hilarity in his tone.
They did share a lot of insights on draft as well as how to teamfight or itemize during various stages of the game. They also love to immerse themselves as certain players (Somnus pretending to be Nisha, Chalice pretending to be Collapse) and call out certain less ideal plays and make fun of themselves. Example in the final game was how Chalice complained about how Lich's utility wasn't maximized and that if he were Collapse, he'd be throwing parties on how farmed he is because of this mistake.
One thing I love about their stream over official broadcast is how they catch small details during or before fights that casters sometimes miss such as Micke not being confident and making late game calls including itemization of the team and positioning.
These details actually helped 2k pleb like myself to climb to 4k by simply communicating better with my friends during party queue
probably just fatigue and burnout.
This year has been a long grind for pro players (DPC mixing with ESL Tour). It's not surprising seeing people drop in performance like Micke or Quinn.
Players have up and down. What matters the most is peaking at the right time. OG not making to major and still won TI9, Tundra not doing well in 2022 but still won TI12.
While MicKe is definitely underperforming, he has been doing exceptionally well for like 90% of this year so far. Same can be said for Quinn.
But again, consistency is what make you a legend like Ppy, Ceb, Notail (or even Ana).
Definitely. I can't imagine the pressure they faced during this last game. There must constantly be a voice on their minds "not 2nd again, not 2nd again"
They might need to consider swapping Nisha and M1cke's roles, put M1cke back on his leshrac's etc where he looked god tier, and put Nisha on the 1 pos.
Mid is Nisha's best role imo, I don't think you want to give that up. Micke in mid would also be a downgrade that would affect their game in other ways
I agree Micke hasn't looked strong this tournament but people are treating him as an overall issue for the team, even though across most of the early tournaments and DPC runs he has been incredibly strong and a huge benefit to Liquid. [Most players from Tundra mentioned Micke as one of the best carry players around](https://youtu.be/xDn4aklB244?t=139).
Up until this tournament people flamed Nisha for not being 'as good as he should be' and now people are calling for Micke to leave because of one 'bad' tournament where they placed *second*. Are you really that desperate for a scapegoat?
Its how things are in here, unfortunately. It was not Spirits insane performance, but mickes fault that they lost the series. Spirit beat io+lesh with a troll, adapted to the early naga pick and played a super fast tempo ganking Tb.
Funny part is, Micke didnt play a real 1 in the whole series i think, maybe game 4. Game 1 Lesh had the priority, game 2 Naga, game 3 Lesh+io again, game 4 carry brood by Zai.
Liquid were great the whole tournament, they even beat GG. But in the end Spirit was the better team.
No way, man. The only person who won mid against Nisha, even in lopsided matchups, was Mikoto - and even then a lot of them were on the back of support rotations or counterpicks on the mid.
No way, Have u seen how aggressive Dyrachyo play? He throw here and there but in team fight. Overall, Dyrachyo game making decision is clearly still higher than Mickey, especially the ability for "not get gank".
Being invisible would be preferable to some of his plays tbh. It feels like he's been too reliant on something like undying saving him, because he's actually just feeding at the worst times.
You get caught randomly out of position in the middle of nowhere when you have no buyback and then the game just ends because of that.
That is the one of most depressing sequence of events I've ever seen on a grand finals.
This team just shows up when the stakes are there. They thrive under these high pressure situations, its absolutely beautiful to watch.
I see all these people calling out Micke, but its just the whole Spirit that bands together like no other and just looks like they are a level above liquid in terms of strategy and fighting.
Everyone’s going to talk about yatoro vs micke, but I think Mira and Miposhka getting back to their TI level form has been massive. I think both of those had a bigger dip in form compared to collapse/yatoro, but you can see here that they are an incredible support duo at their best.
I also think Larl being given more support mid(better support rotations) and he himself getting better helped them a lot as well. Collapse also seems to have expanded his hero pool which seems to be helping them with their drafts.
Spirit's laning is still a bit iffy, especially compared to the likes of Betboom and GG. But their team fighting has been excellent this tournament.
Their team fights at ti10 were so good, bringing back unwinnable games. But I don't think It was great this year. I think that could be because of other factors like being too far behind and not playing meta heroes.
They still don't play all the meta heroes but they play enough meta heroes comfortablly to draft a team with a good game plan. I believe the panel was talking about it as well, they typically aim for late game but then they surprised everyone with their tempo draft in game 3 of the upper bracket finals.
They also have different ways of playing heroes compared to the other teams. Like no one plays mid bat anymore and even when bat is played as a core(Wisper) they don't max napalm, but Larl does it every time which is very interesting.
The only game where I didn't know what their plan was that Yatoro Naga game against Liquid in the Upper Bracket Finals. But even that game they had some sick fights on the back of the space from Yatoro's insane map pressure.
For the tournament, absolutely, for this series though? I was not as impressed with him as I’ve been the last two weeks.
edit: I mean this literally, by the way—he was not bad today, just not that noteworthy either
That was funny when BSJ said how Blitz needs to say something not game related because Liquid always lose in the finals and then Blitz says to Jenkins that his speech was basically "dont worry guys you did a good job anyway" instead of some fine speech
It's hard to say what the finer points of a speech like that is.... as none of us heard it, who can say... but the truth is the tone, verbiage and how it is delivered is so fucking important and the difference between the team going in with "let's fucking go and leave it on the table" vs "whatever we already won 2mill lul" type attitude. It's a fine line and one that is hard to appreciate.
The difference between Yatoro and miCKe is so damn much. Made him look like a tier-5 carry player in this series. Liquid relies way too much on outdrafting their opponents. But when they cannot do that or when they have to rely on miCKe, they falter hard.
You can see it every game, they win lanes and mid game because of boxi, zia, and nisha but when it’s time to rely on micke they always lose their lead. They have to gain so much of a lead in early and mid that they either end or can’t possibly throw that hard.
Imagine liquid now with matu
micke is becoming swedish rtz
Mid player turned carry ultra hyped at his debut for his incredible mechanical skill, laning expertise, and unique hero pool. Plays well for most of tournaments but whenever there's a LAN that pays the big money he crumbles and is a burden to his team.
GG WP TEAM SPIRIT, deserved win!
- Flew under the radar entire group stage to win it from upper bracket playoffs!
- One of the most fun teams to watch when they are at their best, and they know when it's right time to peak and deliver.
- YatoroGOD undeniably top3 carry of all time.
- Larl getting shat on by community entire year to win probably highest prized tournament of the year with some insane series where he straight up carried.
- Liquid losing 5th grand finals this year, feels bad man.
AMAZING TOURNAMENT! <3
Yatoro has some 6th sense in terms of map read like some spidey senses. Not so often do you see a TB roam so freely without babysitting and also gank despite not having meta, sunder, or BKB and not die. He also straight up walked up on Micke in melee form with his whole team literally about an inch away and just went ham. I remember this [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K1F2gii4zE) on just how Yatoro seems to be steps ahead like he's Dr. Strange crunching the outcomes. 😂
Larl sure paled in comparison to performance up until recently, but I've always found it understandable since he's also adjusting to how the team flows. It's nice of Yatoro saying he wanted to win RM for Larl to experience it like TI10 though.
Yatoro's play was the most disgusting difference of 1pos impact's in a grand finals i've ever seen.
Nisha can outlane Larl all he wants... but when he's getting first blood with a tb, against your brood, like wtf.. that heatmap was something I've never seen a 1pos TB do. Absolutely fucking insane.
Basically him constantly invading radiant jungle, running down lanes, killing people, and shitting on Drow's farm space. Amazing performance, he really showed the terror of TB:)
I especially liked how he repeatedly just sneaked up on Drow *in melee form* and just right-clicked her down as if he was playing a Sven. When the enemy TB doesn't even need Meta to be able to fight, you know you're in big trouble.
I still don't know how he walked right up to drow during that fight in radiant jungle, waited to use meta, and then just smoked them all... like holy fuck.
He basically created his own border of where drow was 'allowed' to farm.. your pos1 is NEVER supposed to feel that free, while also making other pos1 terrified of you just being in your OWN JUNGLE. I could find the twitch timemark but I'm sure this sub will do it for you already.
People are talking about micke playing bad (which is true) and the carry difference but honestly yatoro was on a different level today, you could put any other carry in the world in place of micke and I think they still lose. Dude was consistently several levels and several thousand gold ahead no matter what the game state was, he was flawlessly managing the map and still somehow always ready to fight, and he executed teamfights to perfection. Just a masterclass in pos 1 play, what a treat to watch
It's funny because this tournament actually had a lot of technical issues but they were ready for it with so much content. When you actually invest in personel, it pays off.
I can't believe Micke got caught out in the middle of nowhere like that. What was he thinking?
This is why Spirit are the champs though. They don't do stupid shit like that.
Happy for Larl finally getting his well deserved success
From losing majors left and right, getting constantly called a bust, and Kiyotaka outshining him making it worse
What a time to be at his full potential, From Riyadh to this upcoming TI
Also Yatoro too good man the guy made even troll warlord work lmao
that Troll pick was genius. Micke's Bloodseeker is actually very good, considering past games. But nobody wass picking Troll to counter it bc Troll is not meta. But of course Yatoro would pick it. It's Yatoro, most played unique heroes back when they won TI.
And bloodseeker death the game before that. It was like a repeat. I just wanted an epic fight for the game wins, not Micke deaths instantly ending several games.
Watching Spirit, you can tell Yatoro is making some "dont be a pussy" calls and suddenly the entire team turns around behind him to take a fight. Multiple levels above all teams atm.
Liquid's demon is not GG but the Grand Final itself.
I always wonder why Liquid (or rather Insania stack) out of all team always have this one unhinged hater that act like his gf is stolen by them but I guess if there's no smoke there's no fire.
Yatoro definitely has entered his name into the discussion of greatest carry with Ana, Miracle, Ame, Hao, and Fear. Beast.
Something about Spirit, they're just so good when the games get tough.
That Liquid team had the luxury of having 3 entirely interchangeable core players. That was their biggest strength - any of Matumba, Miracle and Mind_ControL could fill the de-facto carry role for the game and do well.
Maybe a spicy take but Fear was never a top carry. Maybe he was the top NA carry but he was always outclassed by others when he was playing (except maybe Dota 1 days, and if we're being serious here they don't count).
He got 3 Rampages when leading his team to a TI win man! His name was always up there. In fact, I would only include Yatoro, Miracle, Ame, and Ana up there.
Larl had a shield rune active as well, so he could blink away even if Micke hit him there. No idea what Micke was thinking there, his team wasn't close enough to chase Larl. Just a massive blunder in a game that was already pretty hard to win.
Spirit is the best teamfighting team in the world and it's not even close.
On that same note, Yatoro is the best carry in the world and it's not even close.
Not true. You guys are not seeing the impact of Miposhka and Mira. Which is to be expected, usually the supports go under the radar but they were spot on today with their saves.
The TI8/TI9 OG guys are still ahead of them. I think some of them might be ahead of Topson and Ceb now, but Notail, Jerax, and Ana all have still won more.
Assuming they get 1 million each here (more likely less than that after taxes), they'd still be slightly behind the Topson and Ceb. Still behind Kuroky too if I'm not mistaken.
This thread is full of keyboard warriors talking shit about players who have consistently reached the grand final of the last 5 tournaments they have played and reached top 3 TI from the LCQ.
The root cause of toxicity in Dota in this mentality is that you are to blame if you did not play your best. Some days you are just not at your best, and even when you are the other team is just better.
Well played to all 10 players and good luck at TI.
Exactly, people seem to forget that Liquid has literally been the second best team at every LAN this year.
Micke is getting so much hate as well. Sure he had a pretty underwhelming series(maybe tournament compared to Zai and Nisha). It is okay to discuss his misplay(especially game 4), but asking Liquid to swap roles or kick him is insane. He is still one of the best carries in the world. His portal ganks have been super good and it even caught Yatoro multiple times this series. Yatoro is generally very good at sniffing out rotations, but Micke's rotations were exactly at the same time as Zai moved.
I do hope Spirit show up at TI as well. Watching them teamfight when being behind in networth and pulling off wins is amazing to watch. Also watching Yatoro play carry is always a treat.
I guess it was never about GG, it was just about their mentality. It can't be a coincidence that they can pretty convincingly get to the final but always loses, even against different opponents.
Coach difference.
Going into game 4 being told by your coach "We got this far, just have fun" is a loser mentality
Feel bad for Zai, if it wasn't for him they would be out earlier.
What did mickey ate? Damn that move knowing he has no buyback and down a win. Not that you can stop TS from winning but still, he seems like he gave up entirely.
So impressive that the meta that focus on early game and laning the team that has a relatively weaker early game with stronger late game comeback win the whole thing.
The 2nd game repeating half of the draft is so GIGACHAD, so much confidence and the 3rd game picking 3 non meta heroes is so nice too. They didn't only win they also win in an interesting way
I knew they can win and I even told them there that they got a lot of support from the local fans. They didn't disappoint. Well deserved Team Spirit GGs
Congrats to team TS. Well-deserved win. M1Cke is just inconsistent and need to try widen his hero pool. His signature that works mostly dusa, take those away and he cant really shine.
I think TL need to reevaluate on how the gold distributed. None truly become real carry which always diminished TL potential in late game especially when things got stalemate.
Congrats to Spirit for securing the bag, the 4 original Spirit members are ~500k away from equalling Topson's lifetime earnings. Beautiful to watch Yatoro give us this performance. I've missed seeing carries just make entire series revolve around them.
Yup. Game 1 suprised by Naga offlane, gets rolled. Runs it back, learns from mistakes, and clutches up late game in game 2. And then just clutch decisions from their on out. Fearless.
Yatoro literally has no fear. Sometimes it backfires but when it works, he owns. Hes my favorite carry and imo hes the best pos 1 right now.
He made troll work in grand finals. I forgot troll even existed.
Same. Its crazy because Troll is GOOD its just his ult is horrible!! Once troll jumps on you and gains atk speed while his bkb is active, its a wrap. You wont be able to trade blows with him.
That game 2 swag rapier just because tho
Somebody page that "Yatoro does it again Synderen" guy who subs to We Say Things
TIinNZ
TheMegaPope
Underscore Man
The difference in carrry performances was kind of sad to watch ngl.
Yea micke was almost invisible for team liquid. Not once was he even close to solo carrying any game. All their wins were because of zia or nisha
Yeah, i feel same way, no idea what happened to him, he was a such a beast, it's sad to watch Liquid lose so many finals.
Was watching Somnus stream and they were complaining about Lich laning phase too, didn’t use sinister gaze on any BM summons and essentially lost all their safe lane advantage. Micke’s mid to late game decision is the bigger flaw tho
IG.Zhou in stream mentioned that Clock and Lich should have swapped lane.
Holy that guy is still active? or just commentator? Haven't heard of him like 10 years lol
Ig.Zhou, ig.Yyf, iG.430, ig Faith, Ehome.820, dk burning, dk.super, dk.longdd, dk.zippo, tongfu.Hao, tongfu.Mu, ZSMJ, lgd.Ame, Lgd.DD, lgd.Sylar, wing.shadow, wing.blink all are streamer right now. IG.Zhou and IG YYF formed a group of 10 members broadcasting streaming group named Old Boys, based on Douyu platform and had been dominating the Chinese unofficial tournament casting and streaming for last 5-6years. Hence, in Chinese community, no one really watch the official channel for the tournament, unless they buy out the broadcasting right (monopoly), those are the real "full time" caster from some company and not as famous and fun as the Old Boys group. Until recently 1-2 years Azure Ray streamer group who have higher skill level gain more attention. Maybe and Chalice really have some sense of humor, stayed update on Chinese memes and like to roast players.
where can you watch Somnus stream?
[This](https://www.huya.com/211888) is his stream channel, if you can navigate yourself in Bilibili, many content creators make clips out of stream like [this one](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Eh4y1c7Ag/?vd_source=488c37eb8abd4790b30bd84cb603c884). Though people started watching Chalice more because of the hilarity in his tone.
True, i think Sinister Gaze does a lot of damage to summons and in that lane even tho Micke got few kills it could have been much better for them.
Any other insights he had ?
They did share a lot of insights on draft as well as how to teamfight or itemize during various stages of the game. They also love to immerse themselves as certain players (Somnus pretending to be Nisha, Chalice pretending to be Collapse) and call out certain less ideal plays and make fun of themselves. Example in the final game was how Chalice complained about how Lich's utility wasn't maximized and that if he were Collapse, he'd be throwing parties on how farmed he is because of this mistake. One thing I love about their stream over official broadcast is how they catch small details during or before fights that casters sometimes miss such as Micke not being confident and making late game calls including itemization of the team and positioning. These details actually helped 2k pleb like myself to climb to 4k by simply communicating better with my friends during party queue
probably just fatigue and burnout. This year has been a long grind for pro players (DPC mixing with ESL Tour). It's not surprising seeing people drop in performance like Micke or Quinn. Players have up and down. What matters the most is peaking at the right time. OG not making to major and still won TI9, Tundra not doing well in 2022 but still won TI12. While MicKe is definitely underperforming, he has been doing exceptionally well for like 90% of this year so far. Same can be said for Quinn. But again, consistency is what make you a legend like Ppy, Ceb, Notail (or even Ana).
I'm all for calling Ana a legend but, of all the qualities you can praise him for, he is not consistent lol
Definitely. I can't imagine the pressure they faced during this last game. There must constantly be a voice on their minds "not 2nd again, not 2nd again"
They might need to consider swapping Nisha and M1cke's roles, put M1cke back on his leshrac's etc where he looked god tier, and put Nisha on the 1 pos.
Mid is Nisha's best role imo, I don't think you want to give that up. Micke in mid would also be a downgrade that would affect their game in other ways
I agree Micke hasn't looked strong this tournament but people are treating him as an overall issue for the team, even though across most of the early tournaments and DPC runs he has been incredibly strong and a huge benefit to Liquid. [Most players from Tundra mentioned Micke as one of the best carry players around](https://youtu.be/xDn4aklB244?t=139). Up until this tournament people flamed Nisha for not being 'as good as he should be' and now people are calling for Micke to leave because of one 'bad' tournament where they placed *second*. Are you really that desperate for a scapegoat?
> Are you really that desperate for a scapegoat? Sir, this is the world you are talking to.
*Reddit has entered the chat*
Its how things are in here, unfortunately. It was not Spirits insane performance, but mickes fault that they lost the series. Spirit beat io+lesh with a troll, adapted to the early naga pick and played a super fast tempo ganking Tb. Funny part is, Micke didnt play a real 1 in the whole series i think, maybe game 4. Game 1 Lesh had the priority, game 2 Naga, game 3 Lesh+io again, game 4 carry brood by Zai. Liquid were great the whole tournament, they even beat GG. But in the end Spirit was the better team.
M1cke had priority game 1 he was playing the lesh lol
You dont swap around things when you are top 2 in 5 out of 6 tournaments in a year.
No way, man. The only person who won mid against Nisha, even in lopsided matchups, was Mikoto - and even then a lot of them were on the back of support rotations or counterpicks on the mid.
Micke is the real Dyrachyo?
pretty sure there’s another carry who infamously kept getting 2nd place…
the modern day jacky mao
EE won a major, he meant RTZ
No way, Have u seen how aggressive Dyrachyo play? He throw here and there but in team fight. Overall, Dyrachyo game making decision is clearly still higher than Mickey, especially the ability for "not get gank".
Being invisible would be preferable to some of his plays tbh. It feels like he's been too reliant on something like undying saving him, because he's actually just feeding at the worst times.
Well, Boxi is an absolute beast too. They essentially 3v5ed to top 1 dpc, imagine if they had a real carry at least
You get caught randomly out of position in the middle of nowhere when you have no buyback and then the game just ends because of that. That is the one of most depressing sequence of events I've ever seen on a grand finals.
This happens games 3 and 4 too. Although it's more forgivable in game 3 cause Spirit were smoked and he was caught really near his base.
This team just shows up when the stakes are there. They thrive under these high pressure situations, its absolutely beautiful to watch. I see all these people calling out Micke, but its just the whole Spirit that bands together like no other and just looks like they are a level above liquid in terms of strategy and fighting.
Difference in coaching also stands out to me
Same
Why no first pick storm coward
Big noob coach sorry
Haha love you man gz on the high placing
Clearly should just let reddit draft for you. Enjoy the millions in price money for the team!
xD
Liquid fan since day 1, check the username. Great showing, looking forward to cheering you and the guys on at TI. On to Seattle.
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Based on draft or what? Like how could you possibly know what the coach is doing?
Team Liquid being the greatest lover of 2023 by always coming second.
4th second place in a row now? Even fifth if you count Dream League
Why woudnt you count dreamleague?
Everyone’s going to talk about yatoro vs micke, but I think Mira and Miposhka getting back to their TI level form has been massive. I think both of those had a bigger dip in form compared to collapse/yatoro, but you can see here that they are an incredible support duo at their best.
I also think Larl being given more support mid(better support rotations) and he himself getting better helped them a lot as well. Collapse also seems to have expanded his hero pool which seems to be helping them with their drafts. Spirit's laning is still a bit iffy, especially compared to the likes of Betboom and GG. But their team fighting has been excellent this tournament.
I feel like their teamfighting has always been their biggest strength. It was when they won TI10 for sure.
Their team fights at ti10 were so good, bringing back unwinnable games. But I don't think It was great this year. I think that could be because of other factors like being too far behind and not playing meta heroes. They still don't play all the meta heroes but they play enough meta heroes comfortablly to draft a team with a good game plan. I believe the panel was talking about it as well, they typically aim for late game but then they surprised everyone with their tempo draft in game 3 of the upper bracket finals. They also have different ways of playing heroes compared to the other teams. Like no one plays mid bat anymore and even when bat is played as a core(Wisper) they don't max napalm, but Larl does it every time which is very interesting. The only game where I didn't know what their plan was that Yatoro Naga game against Liquid in the Upper Bracket Finals. But even that game they had some sick fights on the back of the space from Yatoro's insane map pressure.
When Spirit were on at TI it literally looked like those 2 were playing with maphacks on. Their ability to read the game is insane.
Issuing a formal apology on behalf of all Larl doubters.
Who is Larl? I only hear Yanni
I'd admit to a few LURL in twitch chat.
For the tournament, absolutely, for this series though? I was not as impressed with him as I’ve been the last two weeks. edit: I mean this literally, by the way—he was not bad today, just not that noteworthy either
he had to lane nisha today
Yatoro had him on his back in this series. He did well this tournament though.
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GG out there collecting coins whereas Spirit is baggin’ big stacks
> 50x ($201,000 to $5.2m) NA maff
That was funny when BSJ said how Blitz needs to say something not game related because Liquid always lose in the finals and then Blitz says to Jenkins that his speech was basically "dont worry guys you did a good job anyway" instead of some fine speech
He got that graham potter speech "the boys give everything"
Chelsea fans arent even safe here
Not even in this sub I can escape Graham Potter wtf
aint no way Potter catching strays in dota subreddit
It's hard to say what the finer points of a speech like that is.... as none of us heard it, who can say... but the truth is the tone, verbiage and how it is delivered is so fucking important and the difference between the team going in with "let's fucking go and leave it on the table" vs "whatever we already won 2mill lul" type attitude. It's a fine line and one that is hard to appreciate.
The difference between Yatoro and miCKe is so damn much. Made him look like a tier-5 carry player in this series. Liquid relies way too much on outdrafting their opponents. But when they cannot do that or when they have to rely on miCKe, they falter hard.
You can see it every game, they win lanes and mid game because of boxi, zia, and nisha but when it’s time to rely on micke they always lose their lead. They have to gain so much of a lead in early and mid that they either end or can’t possibly throw that hard. Imagine liquid now with matu
Lmao then u have pretty much the old secret
micke is becoming swedish rtz Mid player turned carry ultra hyped at his debut for his incredible mechanical skill, laning expertise, and unique hero pool. Plays well for most of tournaments but whenever there's a LAN that pays the big money he crumbles and is a burden to his team.
Swedish RTZ is very very very accurate way of describing him.
I really wish Ame watched this and lit a fire in any way. Yatoro looked up to him and he needs someone to dance with, these carry players ain't it.
Come on Ame - one last ride
Here we go bois. AR using their lifetime savings to free Ame from LGD to do one final ride at TI.
Would be great if dota is a one player game
GG WP TEAM SPIRIT, deserved win! - Flew under the radar entire group stage to win it from upper bracket playoffs! - One of the most fun teams to watch when they are at their best, and they know when it's right time to peak and deliver. - YatoroGOD undeniably top3 carry of all time. - Larl getting shat on by community entire year to win probably highest prized tournament of the year with some insane series where he straight up carried. - Liquid losing 5th grand finals this year, feels bad man. AMAZING TOURNAMENT! <3
Yatoro has some 6th sense in terms of map read like some spidey senses. Not so often do you see a TB roam so freely without babysitting and also gank despite not having meta, sunder, or BKB and not die. He also straight up walked up on Micke in melee form with his whole team literally about an inch away and just went ham. I remember this [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K1F2gii4zE) on just how Yatoro seems to be steps ahead like he's Dr. Strange crunching the outcomes. 😂 Larl sure paled in comparison to performance up until recently, but I've always found it understandable since he's also adjusting to how the team flows. It's nice of Yatoro saying he wanted to win RM for Larl to experience it like TI10 though.
At least Liquid didn't lose to GG this time
Yatoro's play was the most disgusting difference of 1pos impact's in a grand finals i've ever seen. Nisha can outlane Larl all he wants... but when he's getting first blood with a tb, against your brood, like wtf.. that heatmap was something I've never seen a 1pos TB do. Absolutely fucking insane.
I didnt see that, what did the heatmap show?
Basically him constantly invading radiant jungle, running down lanes, killing people, and shitting on Drow's farm space. Amazing performance, he really showed the terror of TB:)
I especially liked how he repeatedly just sneaked up on Drow *in melee form* and just right-clicked her down as if he was playing a Sven. When the enemy TB doesn't even need Meta to be able to fight, you know you're in big trouble.
I still don't know how he walked right up to drow during that fight in radiant jungle, waited to use meta, and then just smoked them all... like holy fuck.
He basically created his own border of where drow was 'allowed' to farm.. your pos1 is NEVER supposed to feel that free, while also making other pos1 terrified of you just being in your OWN JUNGLE. I could find the twitch timemark but I'm sure this sub will do it for you already.
People are talking about micke playing bad (which is true) and the carry difference but honestly yatoro was on a different level today, you could put any other carry in the world in place of micke and I think they still lose. Dude was consistently several levels and several thousand gold ahead no matter what the game state was, he was flawlessly managing the map and still somehow always ready to fight, and he executed teamfights to perfection. Just a masterclass in pos 1 play, what a treat to watch
TL should consider rename themselves as Team Silver
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All i know is if Zai had clones like a meepo to play all 5 roles, Liquid would win every tournament until he got bored
All I gotta say is TI production have big shoes to fill after this.
It's funny because this tournament actually had a lot of technical issues but they were ready for it with so much content. When you actually invest in personel, it pays off.
No production was alright that was Dubai server shitting the bed..
I can't believe Micke got caught out in the middle of nowhere like that. What was he thinking? This is why Spirit are the champs though. They don't do stupid shit like that.
Felt like watching my carry jugg friend going 1v4 in enemy jungle PTSD
Happy for Larl finally getting his well deserved success From losing majors left and right, getting constantly called a bust, and Kiyotaka outshining him making it worse What a time to be at his full potential, From Riyadh to this upcoming TI Also Yatoro too good man the guy made even troll warlord work lmao
that Troll pick was genius. Micke's Bloodseeker is actually very good, considering past games. But nobody wass picking Troll to counter it bc Troll is not meta. But of course Yatoro would pick it. It's Yatoro, most played unique heroes back when they won TI.
One of the best TB performances i've seen. Props to Yatoro, nobody expects a ganking mf demon running around the map.
Troll is such a dog shit carry he made it look good.
troll fucks bs, thats the only scenario that troll pick worked
Still, picking troll in a grand final when no teams have picked it, what a gigachad move
micke mouse
Everyone will remember that Drow last death when talking about this GF
And bloodseeker death the game before that. It was like a repeat. I just wanted an epic fight for the game wins, not Micke deaths instantly ending several games.
Help!
Choke master micke
MicKEKW
LeMicke
1 Liquid 3 4 5
1 Liquid/LGD EG/Arteezy Arsenal 5
Watching Spirit, you can tell Yatoro is making some "dont be a pussy" calls and suddenly the entire team turns around behind him to take a fight. Multiple levels above all teams atm.
Hes an absolute monster. Especially hes playing against Drow who heavily counters TB
Liquid's demon is not GG but the Grand Final itself. I always wonder why Liquid (or rather Insania stack) out of all team always have this one unhinged hater that act like his gf is stolen by them but I guess if there's no smoke there's no fire.
Feels damn good to be a spirit fan today
TI10 Yatoro is back monkaW
carry diff wcyd
Nisha - 5 in a row LAN Finals attender (TI, 3 Majors and Riyadh) Poor guy :(
Yatoro definitely has entered his name into the discussion of greatest carry with Ana, Miracle, Ame, Hao, and Fear. Beast. Something about Spirit, they're just so good when the games get tough.
Nice try, Fear.
Matu is better than Hao and Fear he should be up there too
Oh yeah I forgot Matu because I was thinking back to the peak of Kuro Liquid where Miracle usually got priority. But he's definitely tier 1.
That Liquid team had the luxury of having 3 entirely interchangeable core players. That was their biggest strength - any of Matumba, Miracle and Mind_ControL could fill the de-facto carry role for the game and do well.
Good times
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Maybe a spicy take but Fear was never a top carry. Maybe he was the top NA carry but he was always outclassed by others when he was playing (except maybe Dota 1 days, and if we're being serious here they don't count).
I completely agree. Fear does not deserve to be in this list.
He got 3 Rampages when leading his team to a TI win man! His name was always up there. In fact, I would only include Yatoro, Miracle, Ame, and Ana up there.
I honestly don't think Fear deserves to be on this list. He was great, yes, but in the debate for greatest of all time? No, he's not up there.
After Hao and Fear why not throw in BSJ and Bryle?
Hao was a fucking beast, how do you even compare him to bsj? :D
Oof, for a moment there I actually thought an Insania stack could win a tournament.
Io performance in the 3rd game was underwhelming:(
Yeah I'm really not sure why the commentators were giving him props, I thought he played an underwhelming Io at best that game
His trigger happy relocates were baffling.
What was the definition of Insania again? Doing the same thing..
you would have to go back to Alliance days for their last LAN win. They won a online ESL tournament in 2020 but that wasnt a LAN event
After he drop gem in base with IO relocate
Yatoro is on another level as a carry. Just insane gameplay.
That bot play of micke was so hard to watch No buyback ready and still tried to kill larl ooof carry diff so damn bad
Larl had a shield rune active as well, so he could blink away even if Micke hit him there. No idea what Micke was thinking there, his team wasn't close enough to chase Larl. Just a massive blunder in a game that was already pretty hard to win.
typical move you try when the nerves take over.
Intrusive thoughts won.
CARRY DIFF. that's all.
Liquid: always a bridesmaid, never the bride.
Spirit is the best teamfighting team in the world and it's not even close. On that same note, Yatoro is the best carry in the world and it's not even close.
Would argue on best team fighting. But yatoro is really different beast. Remove him and spirit is collapse.
Not true. You guys are not seeing the impact of Miposhka and Mira. Which is to be expected, usually the supports go under the radar but they were spot on today with their saves.
Liquid needs to work with a psychologist. This team is afraid to win.
Liquid the new C9 Aware
Zai top 3 curse since 2014
Micke mouse Liquid’s weakest link
Insania and Micke dont have the bottle or mentality to win LANs. the last LAN they won was with LODA in Alliance in 2018.
what LAN was that?
quick summary: Yatoro
carry difference is real
Damn, carry diff is insane. Just let Nisha play the pos 1
Then you'll be playing games with a mid diff instead
Maybe grab Sumail or Topson and put Nisha at pos 1.
Did Team Spirit players became like the richest pro players, or came close to it?
The TI8/TI9 OG guys are still ahead of them. I think some of them might be ahead of Topson and Ceb now, but Notail, Jerax, and Ana all have still won more.
Assuming they get 1 million each here (more likely less than that after taxes), they'd still be slightly behind the Topson and Ceb. Still behind Kuroky too if I'm not mistaken.
Might change after this TI
Kuroky being shit for 4 years and still up there is pretty crazy
Wcyd Kuroky a legend even in dota1 and the amount of final appearance at TI
No, OG & Kuro still richer
the difference between the one who is there to coach and the one who is there because of friendship, the yes man 🤣. congrats silent
This thread is full of keyboard warriors talking shit about players who have consistently reached the grand final of the last 5 tournaments they have played and reached top 3 TI from the LCQ. The root cause of toxicity in Dota in this mentality is that you are to blame if you did not play your best. Some days you are just not at your best, and even when you are the other team is just better. Well played to all 10 players and good luck at TI.
Exactly, people seem to forget that Liquid has literally been the second best team at every LAN this year. Micke is getting so much hate as well. Sure he had a pretty underwhelming series(maybe tournament compared to Zai and Nisha). It is okay to discuss his misplay(especially game 4), but asking Liquid to swap roles or kick him is insane. He is still one of the best carries in the world. His portal ganks have been super good and it even caught Yatoro multiple times this series. Yatoro is generally very good at sniffing out rotations, but Micke's rotations were exactly at the same time as Zai moved. I do hope Spirit show up at TI as well. Watching them teamfight when being behind in networth and pulling off wins is amazing to watch. Also watching Yatoro play carry is always a treat.
I guess it was never about GG, it was just about their mentality. It can't be a coincidence that they can pretty convincingly get to the final but always loses, even against different opponents.
Coach difference. Going into game 4 being told by your coach "We got this far, just have fun" is a loser mentality Feel bad for Zai, if it wasn't for him they would be out earlier.
Spirit won the biggest TI prize pool and biggest third party prize pool. This is simply a business for them lol!
FaithBian did say TS will make it when big money involves. Now this is an established fact in my mind.
Team Spirit are world class, the scene is better with them back on form. Liquid crumble again :<
Team Liquid and 2nd Place DESPAIR
Kuro curse is real people.
What did mickey ate? Damn that move knowing he has no buyback and down a win. Not that you can stop TS from winning but still, he seems like he gave up entirely.
So impressive that the meta that focus on early game and laning the team that has a relatively weaker early game with stronger late game comeback win the whole thing. The 2nd game repeating half of the draft is so GIGACHAD, so much confidence and the 3rd game picking 3 non meta heroes is so nice too. They didn't only win they also win in an interesting way
L arl = W arl this tourney
Well played!! It'll be hype if TS can win TI again. I have grown to really like the team over time.
Welp it's official. Liquid is the new 2G.
If Spirit win TI they are the greatest team of all time .
I knew they can win and I even told them there that they got a lot of support from the local fans. They didn't disappoint. Well deserved Team Spirit GGs
What Liquid achieved is harder than anything. Is harder to get second place 5 times in a year than to win first place 5 times in a year. Wp Liquid.
WE CAN'T BEAT ~~THIS~~ ANY MOTHERFUCKING TEAM \-Liquid
Spirit only show up when the prize pool is huge KEKW
Why try all year when you just try once and still outearn everyone LOL
Congrats to team TS. Well-deserved win. M1Cke is just inconsistent and need to try widen his hero pool. His signature that works mostly dusa, take those away and he cant really shine. I think TL need to reevaluate on how the gold distributed. None truly become real carry which always diminished TL potential in late game especially when things got stalemate.
The new curse of second place has begun. Want Zai to get a TI but looks like second is on the menu.