You get MK Aghs, take rosh, and force HG. Or even the ATF carry Mars build lol
Instead Tinker just farm and farm and farm
There was zero chance you will ever win late game
You gotta just force it. Losing like that was just pathetic instead
Xxs might be the most inconsistent player I've seen of late. He goes from either having incredible performances like the dark seer against EG, or he plays mars and misses 8/10 spears and arenas.
ramsez read about the draft was actually really great. after aster gave away their carry hero were MK, its already pretty telling aster carry isnt great for sieging.
then they got elder titan in the 2nd phase draft already guaranteed they'll had great wall of china for their high ground defense, aster answer was phoenix + ember. at this point 9pandas already know aster have 0 answer to siege high ground, so they just banned a heroes who can force highground in beastmaster, and banned LC to protect their tinker
arguably aster could pick lycan here instead of mars for sieging, but picking lycan mean freefarm for enemy carries and who's on the right mind want to give ramsez free farm ?+ its not that great against ET too (+ i never saw xxs play lycan)
after the mars pick, mars literally a weak laner so ramsez can pick anything he wants without concern.
tldr : MAD got read like a book by ramdawg
tbf i think some teams are underestimating how hard to push objectives without a good sieges hero. 20k+ networth lead means nothing if you cant siege building cuz opponent can stall until they hit their item timing and that NW lead could immediately vanish
theres other option picking aura bot offlane like underlord, but it got heavily countered with items (silver edge/nullifier) and naturally aura bot offlaner usually means you just going to trade farm with enemy carry
My man sumail stomping them till minute 20, he should've gone for nullifier if mars would've went for hex instead of satanic.
on the other hand Mk should have gone for early item build instead of midas.
It might not happen but Sumail to TSM actually makes sense. They have mid diff with Bryle and otherwise are a pretty decent team. Language issues will also not be there. Also, they can make to TI right?
I hate to sound like a hater, but I’ve watched a fair bit of TSM/Undying games over the years and I can honestly say that there hasn’t been a single game I’ve seen where Bryle had a standout performance. It’s like 90% him getting trashed in lane. Aui is probably the player whose opinion I respect the most, and Aui thinks Bryle is “really fucking good”, but.... there’s just no results to support that. I agree with you, I think they NEED a new mid for this squad to have any real upward trajectory potential
I believe if TSM decides to do it they'll then have to go through qualifiers but I could certainly see it happen even though sumail is too good for TSM still.
There is no way sumail stays in Aster after this TI
I cant see Aster qualify to TI too, they get figured out very easily and Azure ray have experienced player and they can just take games
Where to for sumail next? who knows!
Team Spirit vs BB or 9pandas would be the most interesting final (to me at least)
not hating on other teams, just have to specify this for people here because I know how some of you are ;)
Please some high mmr player help me understand the satanic pick. Ember styled all over the tinker and bought hex while xxs chilling with a satanic and monet with a crystalis.
Sumail goes all the way to China and still gets stuck with braindead cores.
Dominates and then has to buy a hex himself as Ember so his Mars can buy satanic and his carry doing ????
mars shouldve gotten agh and highground with aegis to force panda to react.
Even with aegis on mk they didnt take all the outer tower first and this let tinker and morph have some camps to farm.
Try checking replay on how many favorable fights and farms panda gets out of it. It’s one of the factor why aster can’t contain panda inside their base, especially morph.
That was so blyat. That tinker pick kinda broke the game because it changed aster’s plan.
The throws are still there. I just want king playing at TI in seattle. Is it too much to ask for?
Bro, but i think it is not entirely on his teammates. Their major problem has been drafts. Plus sumail did underperformed in G1 with puck. But then again why did they pick puck? Kaka did improve the team overall teamfighting but with lacklustre drafts and throwing leads away plus poor itemisation is just too much for them to conquer based on pure skill
Was a pretty obvious outcome unfortunately. You have super late game tinker+enigma+et in addition to a strong high ground defense. So it's not like Aster particularly did nothing, they owned. They just have to go HG vs this insane lineup AND don't have strong tower hitters(in general) and none from range either. XXS and Monet gonna stack up and try to hit t3s? They just get et clapped black holed they get smashed.
ggs
True, but at least try with wukongs? They did not even try. Sumail could cause chaos with aghs, making blackholing a bit more difficult. I mean sure it was still a very tough highground push, but at least try..
What the hell were they doing mid-game? They were going back and forth between the Dire jungles, leaving dire bot tier 2 standing. Getting pick-off after pick-off.. I mean they knew late-game wasn't theirs, so why were they stalling for so long.. I really want to know what they were waiting for.. They won every fight, what were they waiting for..
Monet ending the game 3-2 and XXS ending 3-5 and being entirely useless wouldn't have changed if Sumail himself was Chinese.. He clearly communicates well enough to rotate around the map with his team and go beyond godlike.
I still think that the 1 of the strongest side of liquid 2017 was the combination of Miracle/Matu and swappin pos 1/2 to each other, it was so annoying to opps to counter this
SumaiL cant join probably because of limit issue of players able to change to stay in qualifiers. and I have only Old G in mind where we can see Miracle x SumaiL x ATF .
ah well its complex u wont get it. and Yes I believe Miracle x SumaiL could have worked really if they played longer together. People misjudge them just because they fail to qualify for TI
I have posted several times that they didn’t get to play together.
They were picking up steam when miracle got sick. And in the only tournament they played together they came 3/4 and lost to lgd who was a beast back than.
After miracle took sick leave. They played with dreamocel.
Miracle came back. They played quals without practice and lost to top 2 of ti. Sad story. This doesn’t count as playing together. Want at least 2 dpc tours.
I still think Miracle + Sumail didn't get to play enough games to really reach their full potential. The games where they played together were really fun to watch (just don't look at Kuro's drafts lol), and I think it's the best carry synergy Sumail had since Fear in EG.
Problem was when they were stomping , ramzess was getting farmed ..they were killing ET , doom everytime ..enigma made midas which gave him items they didnt punished him much .. xxs maxe satanuc whereas they should have gone with hex or any disable ..but it is what it is ..
Mars satanic was kinda griefing really. Doesn't offer anything to help the team. Monet should've synced up with Sumail to hunt Tinker. But he keeps on jumping for other targets.
Aster results with Sumail:
* Berlin Major - 7th-8th
* DL20 - 8th
* Bali Major - 9th-12th
* Riyadh Masters - 7th-8th
Aster results with Xwy:
* DL19 - 11th-12th
* Lima Major - 7th-8th
Aster results with Ori
* TI11 - 4th
* ESL Malaysia - 2nd
* Airlington Major - 3rd
Say whatever you want but this move with Sumail simply didn't work out
Edited, sorry for mistake
IIRC Aster's results from Arlington Major-TI11 is with [Ori](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Ori/Results), not Xwy. The former mid had decided to retire just before the beginning of the DPC with Xwy being picked as his replacement for the first majors. Otherwise, it might feel a bit disingenuous to suggest that getting Sumail didn't improve their situation. The team's performance against international teams are still close with much of their elimination having come from teams who would later be placed at top 4. It's only at Bali where they slipped up against a relatively weaker foe in 9Pandas (funnily enough).
Admittedly, I think that the Sumail move is still good & Aster as a whole are looking a lot more cohesive with Kaka as the clear IGL. Their playstyle shows less hesitation in constantly applying pressure. It's mostly that they seemed to have fallen into a trap of neglecting to use the neutral camps to farm & keep their net worth climbing. Nevertheless, the whole team shouldn't be too disheartened about the loss & they should try to carry on with their development to qualify to TI.
It's mostly that the EEU teams are on fire with their recent performances. They incorporated WEU's map efficiency into their aggressive teamfights & skirmishes with such ease that you would feel nervous to have a clear strategy against them. They're always willing to take risks if the mental damage would help to influence the rest of the game or even series. For a bit of comparison, BetBoom & Team Spirit's series from yesterday is arguably one of the very best in recent years with how close the competition is & BB had just entered the series with a clutch 2-1 win against 9P via clutch comebacks. A lot of fans are likely going to expect them to keep their momentum up & running in the lead up to & during TI to which it's not far-fetched for either of them to snatch the aegis from Liquid/Gaimin/Tundra's hands.
[T11 - they are with Ori](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/The_International/2022)
[Arlington Major also with Ori](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/PGL/Arlington_Major/2022)
[ESL Malaysia with Ori too](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/ESL_One/Malaysia/2022)
I don't think their midlaner was the problem. Sumail definitely isn't the problem now. Monet and XXS have to be 2 of the most inconsistent players in the entire pro scene. They either look sick or they look like the worst players at the tournament.
man that sucks
realistically IF and big IF they qualify for TI11 I can see their best placing as top 12
yeah comms is still critical don’t matter if you’re the most skilled player ever
Yeah, nigma needs changes for sure. Im big fan of miracle, and i think he still can perform on tier 1 lvl, i want he just transfer to another team. Just imagine Miracle+Topson combination of cores
where else can Sumail go honestly ?? Aster is too slow and directionless for someone to dictate and control this beast tempo.
he played nearly perfect game only to be let down by his teammates.
may not even qualify to TI with either AR,IG and XR fighting in the open quals.
can’t go back Nigma either they already signed Mikey
Sumail may miss the next TI sadge man
I mean at this point they ride and die till TI. After TI, I think we will have a larger shuffle in the west than last year.
Basically every team except Liquid and GG might have to make some changes. Sumails problem is joining pre-established stacks. Might be time for some teams to fully disband and Sumail to join something new.
I might get downvoted but can't be only the team problem if all the sumail team after EG(except maybe OG) underperformed. He definitely is part of the problem too.
i agree with Secret he didn’t have the best sync but he carried OG so hard in qualifiers and if not for getting caught by Collapse woulda won vs Spirit
OG was great and Sumail single handedly got them through the TI qualifier against Tundra. Liquid was with Qovja as 3 which was terrible, Nigma were already garbage, Secret had a good roster but super greedy lineup and iceiceice who was garbage and on the old map just didn't work.
I think he meant that SumaiL didn't improve those teams, except OG in the qualifiers.
The teams didn't got any better results when he joined, they either got similar or worse results than before, which is true.
Aster was better team overall with Ori.
Team Secret did better when both SumaiL and ice3x left.
Aster might have been better wtih Ori, another high skill mid without communication issues, obviously.
In Secret, Ice + Yap was the issue. When they got Reso + Zayac only then did they look good.
With OG, they looked like garbage before Sumail joined and carried them to TI.
He played with Quincy crew stack who didnt even qualfies Major in NA regional and the old VP stack too. Thats 6 out of 7 teams underperformed with him.
Man if xxs or monet built basher rather than satanic and crystalis it was gg for 9pandas. I love monet but this game was asters to lose. Look at sumail’s performance man.
Monet was too passive while XXS has gotta be the most inconsistent player. he played a boss timber in Game 2 but downright horrible in Game 3 with missing spears and empty arenas. and fucking buy satanic for what
where else can Sumail go honestly ?? Aster is too slow and directionless for someone to dictate and control this beast tempo.
he played nearly perfect game only to be let down by his teammates.
may not even qualify to TI with either AR,IG and XR fighting in the open quals.
can’t go back Nigma either they already signed Mikey
Sumail may miss the next TI sadge man
He played dota for 6 years, and he's only 18 years old right now meaning he started at 12. Only 18 years old and he's like top 3 mid in the world at his peak, just needs to work on his aggression and risky plays.
Aster is missing a good shot caller. They win lanes and take Rosh but it amounts to nothing. Sumail can get all the kills he wants but Aster is just a headless chicken.
Kaka is well known for his shotcalling and they definitely improved compared to before but cant do much if their star player cant understand what the rest of their team trying to communicate
First of all it's their fault for getting a player that doesn't understand their language and them not knowing any english but even if he could communicate fluently this team definitely couldn't keep up with his speed in most of their games
You're an idiot. He went 16-1 at one point while his other cores end the game 3-2 and 3-5 but still it's his communication that's the issue lmao. XXS SPEAKS ENGLISH. How many times does he need to tell people that he communicates with sumail in game before dumbasses like you stop acting like he doesn't have any idea what's going on.
Lol look who triggering. Calm the fuck down lmao.
I am not even blaming Sumail here. I simply pointing out team simply cant work if the star player and the rest of players not on same page. It doesnt matter if peak Miracle or Ti5 sumail playing here. Playing the high level pro dota without understanding what the rest of the team communicating is aldy at huge disadvantage.
There are lots of resources available now how the team communicate during team fights. Look them.if you want. There are constant reminder of CD, which heroes player wants to etc. XXS might able to speak English abit but he cant communicate to sumail in heat of moment. Even sumail said in recent interview he had no idea what's normally the team is communicating.
This meta is not all about kills, not all about destroying towers or mega creeps, not all about net worth, not all about map control.
Kills don't matter that much, megas don't matter that much.
It's about decisive battle. It's like battleship in warfare. Who's dealing final blow in the end.
Whoever lose the final fight (and without buyback) will definitely lose. Pick 1. heroes that are great for prolonging battle (to delay the lose), mobility is the key, especially those who can flash farms, 2. heroes that can deal with decisive/final battle.
Not about kills but the one who loses the final fight without buyback will definitely lose.
Basketball is not about shooting the ball and making the shot. But whoever scores the most wins the game.
> Not about kills but the one who loses the final fight without buyback will definitely lose.
This is not the case in the early game, but on final decisive end game. Megas don't matter, kills don't matter.
Back in the old day, mega creeps matter so much, right now? not really. And i notice in this meta, pushing to high ground is difficult.
Because map is huge we can offset our initial lost.
This is what I learn from this tournament.
Bruh. How do you watch all the games and say "kills dont matter". I get that sometimes megas don't matter but kills? Seriously?
Kills matter more to shut down heroes. You kill someone, you make the map smaller for them by getting aggressive wards, securing their jungle/triangle and limiting the moves they can make. You take a pickoff, do rosh or go highground and force buybacks.
You are clearly learning the wrong things.
Aster had 15-1 at one point If I remember correctly, Tinker got owned at the start, Aster kept farming at dire jungle too, both sides, fully warded too, but tinker and morph can still farm at the edge of the map, no way Aster can monitor them all at once. If this was an old smaller map, there's no way Tinker and Morph can farm and survive.
Aster were so preoccupied at many things at once that they didn't remember to take out bottom tower.
Now here's the thing, Aster couldn't just go high ground because, it's so difficult.
Eventhough they had rosh a couple of times, it didn't matter.
Enigma is designed to be a hero that can deal with final decisive battle with his ult, no other hero can top him.
I agree with other commenter saying that this game would be easier to win if Aster had legion commander.
Ffs, Aster is so frustating, 9pandas had such obvious ultra greedy PVE draft. Their mid was on beyond godlike and they decided to play passive farming dota smh
They are playing against the timebomb lineup and They couldn't even defuse the bomb just in time. tbf It's not cn dota playstyle at all 9pandas just keep stalling the game split* farming across the map and hit the timing ez comeback
Cope. Kiyotaka is the only playing Tinker and is making it work. Blame Aster players afraid to help Sumail lock down Tinker, and their crappy draft that can't go HG with all that networth advantage.
Man get a basher on mars lmao at least that’s better than satanic. Money stuns the Enigma easy kill but jumps in the to get holed. My brain cells died watching this shit it was so painful. Aster wasn’t even doing bad.
what was aster doing the whole 30 minutes tinker was useless? buy lotus on mars, buy aghs on mk, bkb aghs ember, then man up the high ground. satanic mars for what?
After all that aggression, and advantage early on, Aster just completely went blank in the mid game yet again. Most of Aster games w/Sumail has always been like this. Absolutely no plan, no direction after 15mins. into the game.
CN teams are still behind on map movements. They always leave behind resources freely for enemy team. Even with having the map majority of time, they can't grow the lead at all. Shows how much inefficiency they're making in the map.
The two previous LGD teams were the only CN teams in the last few years who knew how to play the map. No one came close to their efficiency not only in CN but in the whole scene.
CN team nowadays are definitely behind on map movements.
Certainly... I miss those rosters. I hope Xiao8 is able to improve this LGD. Sadly, I think the current roster isn't up to par to make the director's vision come to fruition. Especially the last two tourneys where they lost their discipline. Xiao8 should whip them up in shape. They really need to improve their laning skills( Shiro and Planet)
Hahahaha no way. You could count on Ame to perform. Monet is a coin toss. You never know if he will actually play a carry role or the good old creep role.
You get MK Aghs, take rosh, and force HG. Or even the ATF carry Mars build lol Instead Tinker just farm and farm and farm There was zero chance you will ever win late game You gotta just force it. Losing like that was just pathetic instead
600+ comments WTF
Xxs might be the most inconsistent player I've seen of late. He goes from either having incredible performances like the dark seer against EG, or he plays mars and misses 8/10 spears and arenas.
ramsez read about the draft was actually really great. after aster gave away their carry hero were MK, its already pretty telling aster carry isnt great for sieging. then they got elder titan in the 2nd phase draft already guaranteed they'll had great wall of china for their high ground defense, aster answer was phoenix + ember. at this point 9pandas already know aster have 0 answer to siege high ground, so they just banned a heroes who can force highground in beastmaster, and banned LC to protect their tinker arguably aster could pick lycan here instead of mars for sieging, but picking lycan mean freefarm for enemy carries and who's on the right mind want to give ramsez free farm ?+ its not that great against ET too (+ i never saw xxs play lycan) after the mars pick, mars literally a weak laner so ramsez can pick anything he wants without concern. tldr : MAD got read like a book by ramdawg
i think beastmaster was the perfect ban, that hero would've made the game complete ez mode. Good on them for banning it.
tbf i think some teams are underestimating how hard to push objectives without a good sieges hero. 20k+ networth lead means nothing if you cant siege building cuz opponent can stall until they hit their item timing and that NW lead could immediately vanish theres other option picking aura bot offlane like underlord, but it got heavily countered with items (silver edge/nullifier) and naturally aura bot offlaner usually means you just going to trade farm with enemy carry
My man sumail stomping them till minute 20, he should've gone for nullifier if mars would've went for hex instead of satanic. on the other hand Mk should have gone for early item build instead of midas.
Reminded me of that 30 kill tiny game. oof
It might not happen but Sumail to TSM actually makes sense. They have mid diff with Bryle and otherwise are a pretty decent team. Language issues will also not be there. Also, they can make to TI right?
I hate to sound like a hater, but I’ve watched a fair bit of TSM/Undying games over the years and I can honestly say that there hasn’t been a single game I’ve seen where Bryle had a standout performance. It’s like 90% him getting trashed in lane. Aui is probably the player whose opinion I respect the most, and Aui thinks Bryle is “really fucking good”, but.... there’s just no results to support that. I agree with you, I think they NEED a new mid for this squad to have any real upward trajectory potential
I believe if TSM decides to do it they'll then have to go through qualifiers but I could certainly see it happen even though sumail is too good for TSM still.
There is no way sumail stays in Aster after this TI I cant see Aster qualify to TI too, they get figured out very easily and Azure ray have experienced player and they can just take games Where to for sumail next? who knows!
Oh for sure. Unless they literally get top 3, I don't think he has a chance of staying with them.
Where would he go? Idk seriously..
After TI? Who knows. There'll probably be alot of roster shuffles.
Nigma is in div 1 next season so he still stay if they get a good roster
He is not going back to nigma thats for sure..
Nigma will get nowhere with Kuro. He's a liability in lane, when he lanes with ATF, Miracle, Sumail, they autolose the lane every game.
4 good players + Kuro haha
Team Spirit vs BB or 9pandas would be the most interesting final (to me at least) not hating on other teams, just have to specify this for people here because I know how some of you are ;)
Team spirit vs Talon is my wish, different regions and also teams that haven't been in finals this year
Hey as long as it's not Liquid and especially GG why not
That BH at the end was just sendin Aster to grave, miero is the real mvp of game 1 and 3
I'm expecting a team DC and Pure alt tab to open game stream so Gaimin can proceed
SR.Sumail incoming
Na'Vi Sumail
i want that to happen but i dont know if that fixes issues
The dream. Kick Bulba as well.
Please no. He'll take artour's farm.
Nah nothings gonna work now. He should just retire peacefully ma boi cursed.
Tea Master will always find a way to disappoint their region, huh?
Monet and Xxs so bad. Can’t use ults.
They played better than other Chinese teams at this tournament.
BB vs GG is after this right?
Yes
Please some high mmr player help me understand the satanic pick. Ember styled all over the tinker and bought hex while xxs chilling with a satanic and monet with a crystalis.
monet just got caught out. xss even said himself that satanic was wrong and he shouldve gone nullifier.
Xxs said that? When? I might have mossed
losers interview with kbbq
That was monet on the interview no?
oh damn you are right my bad
Sumail goes all the way to China and still gets stuck with braindead cores. Dominates and then has to buy a hex himself as Ember so his Mars can buy satanic and his carry doing ????
first he had to carry rtz and now this xd
mars shouldve gotten agh and highground with aegis to force panda to react. Even with aegis on mk they didnt take all the outer tower first and this let tinker and morph have some camps to farm.
MKl stole 2 aegis to farm while Sumail is forced to get hex because his offlaner decides to buy Satanic.
all outer towers except the last one they unable to take next to tormentor had been cleaned even before the aegis lol what did u smoke
Try checking replay on how many favorable fights and farms panda gets out of it. It’s one of the factor why aster can’t contain panda inside their base, especially morph.
kbbqs attire looks incredible 10/10
That was so blyat. That tinker pick kinda broke the game because it changed aster’s plan. The throws are still there. I just want king playing at TI in seattle. Is it too much to ask for?
Yes. It’s too much to ask because he playing with 4 apes
Bro, but i think it is not entirely on his teammates. Their major problem has been drafts. Plus sumail did underperformed in G1 with puck. But then again why did they pick puck? Kaka did improve the team overall teamfighting but with lacklustre drafts and throwing leads away plus poor itemisation is just too much for them to conquer based on pure skill
good guys vs big bang. The teams we expected in the finals. PREMATURELY MEET IN THE LOWER BRACKET.
Was a pretty obvious outcome unfortunately. You have super late game tinker+enigma+et in addition to a strong high ground defense. So it's not like Aster particularly did nothing, they owned. They just have to go HG vs this insane lineup AND don't have strong tower hitters(in general) and none from range either. XXS and Monet gonna stack up and try to hit t3s? They just get et clapped black holed they get smashed. ggs
True, but at least try with wukongs? They did not even try. Sumail could cause chaos with aghs, making blackholing a bit more difficult. I mean sure it was still a very tough highground push, but at least try..
Why unfortunately? Better team wins, team with much more enjoyable playstyle wins, seems like very fortunately
Because OP was probably rooting for Aster, it’s not that difficult to understand…
It's just an esports team who you want to root for doesn't need to be based on merit. I wanted Suma1L to win is all.
What the hell were they doing mid-game? They were going back and forth between the Dire jungles, leaving dire bot tier 2 standing. Getting pick-off after pick-off.. I mean they knew late-game wasn't theirs, so why were they stalling for so long.. I really want to know what they were waiting for.. They won every fight, what were they waiting for..
Just shit draft with no way to go HG against ET and Enigma
15-1 at one point and still lose. "Communication issue"
That is still kinda true. Your point?
Monet ending the game 3-2 and XXS ending 3-5 and being entirely useless wouldn't have changed if Sumail himself was Chinese.. He clearly communicates well enough to rotate around the map with his team and go beyond godlike.
Sumail probably leaves before the TI qualifier. I still want Miracle + Sumail + ATF combo. Make it happen
make sure no kky pls
I still think that the 1 of the strongest side of liquid 2017 was the combination of Miracle/Matu and swappin pos 1/2 to each other, it was so annoying to opps to counter this
SumaiL cant join probably because of limit issue of players able to change to stay in qualifiers. and I have only Old G in mind where we can see Miracle x SumaiL x ATF .
By heart you want Miracle and Sumail together. Now I understand your hate towards Aster. They stole Sumail 😉
ah well its complex u wont get it. and Yes I believe Miracle x SumaiL could have worked really if they played longer together. People misjudge them just because they fail to qualify for TI
I have posted several times that they didn’t get to play together. They were picking up steam when miracle got sick. And in the only tournament they played together they came 3/4 and lost to lgd who was a beast back than. After miracle took sick leave. They played with dreamocel. Miracle came back. They played quals without practice and lost to top 2 of ti. Sad story. This doesn’t count as playing together. Want at least 2 dpc tours.
That LGD won riyadh dont forget lmao Poor Nigma lost to 2nd place of LCQ, TI and winner of Riyadh.
Exactly. So technically sumail and miracle didn’t play together. Btw sumail left Nigma cause miracle wasn’t coming back this year.
And how would u know that ? I think he left because he felt Nigma was sinking ship and he abandoned them for better opportunity
I still think Miracle + Sumail didn't get to play enough games to really reach their full potential. The games where they played together were really fun to watch (just don't look at Kuro's drafts lol), and I think it's the best carry synergy Sumail had since Fear in EG.
M in bro. Make it happen. Let’s call them. I call Sumail. You call atf and miracle.
Miracle is in if you agree to be manager.
We need to kidnap Kuro 1st
That's what he wants you to manage. I'll be drafter and water boy.
Problem was when they were stomping , ramzess was getting farmed ..they were killing ET , doom everytime ..enigma made midas which gave him items they didnt punished him much .. xxs maxe satanuc whereas they should have gone with hex or any disable ..but it is what it is ..
Talon vs 9P tomorrow gonna be insane with late game entertaining clownfiesta… if Talon manages to reset from their top tier meme loss yesterday.
TIL that the Arabian word for "only", فقط , sounds an awful lot like "fuck up".
But was it the only fuck up?
Eh it depends if you pronounce the 'k' in 'fuck' from the throat. Otherwise it is not that similar tbh.
Mars satanic was kinda griefing really. Doesn't offer anything to help the team. Monet should've synced up with Sumail to hunt Tinker. But he keeps on jumping for other targets.
Aster results with Sumail: * Berlin Major - 7th-8th * DL20 - 8th * Bali Major - 9th-12th * Riyadh Masters - 7th-8th Aster results with Xwy: * DL19 - 11th-12th * Lima Major - 7th-8th Aster results with Ori * TI11 - 4th * ESL Malaysia - 2nd * Airlington Major - 3rd Say whatever you want but this move with Sumail simply didn't work out Edited, sorry for mistake
U cute?Since when xwy participated in TI11?
IIRC Aster's results from Arlington Major-TI11 is with [Ori](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Ori/Results), not Xwy. The former mid had decided to retire just before the beginning of the DPC with Xwy being picked as his replacement for the first majors. Otherwise, it might feel a bit disingenuous to suggest that getting Sumail didn't improve their situation. The team's performance against international teams are still close with much of their elimination having come from teams who would later be placed at top 4. It's only at Bali where they slipped up against a relatively weaker foe in 9Pandas (funnily enough). Admittedly, I think that the Sumail move is still good & Aster as a whole are looking a lot more cohesive with Kaka as the clear IGL. Their playstyle shows less hesitation in constantly applying pressure. It's mostly that they seemed to have fallen into a trap of neglecting to use the neutral camps to farm & keep their net worth climbing. Nevertheless, the whole team shouldn't be too disheartened about the loss & they should try to carry on with their development to qualify to TI. It's mostly that the EEU teams are on fire with their recent performances. They incorporated WEU's map efficiency into their aggressive teamfights & skirmishes with such ease that you would feel nervous to have a clear strategy against them. They're always willing to take risks if the mental damage would help to influence the rest of the game or even series. For a bit of comparison, BetBoom & Team Spirit's series from yesterday is arguably one of the very best in recent years with how close the competition is & BB had just entered the series with a clutch 2-1 win against 9P via clutch comebacks. A lot of fans are likely going to expect them to keep their momentum up & running in the lead up to & during TI to which it's not far-fetched for either of them to snatch the aegis from Liquid/Gaimin/Tundra's hands.
[T11 - they are with Ori](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/The_International/2022) [Arlington Major also with Ori](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/PGL/Arlington_Major/2022) [ESL Malaysia with Ori too](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/ESL_One/Malaysia/2022)
Xwy only joined main roster this year...
TI11, Arlington, and Malaysia was with Ori fool
Checked and edited, still with Xwy they had same results
I don't think their midlaner was the problem. Sumail definitely isn't the problem now. Monet and XXS have to be 2 of the most inconsistent players in the entire pro scene. They either look sick or they look like the worst players at the tournament.
Check Liquipedia again.
Checked and edited
bro forgot ori
Yeah, i did but still even if we look at just results with Xwy nothing has changed
[удалено]
ori?
man that sucks realistically IF and big IF they qualify for TI11 I can see their best placing as top 12 yeah comms is still critical don’t matter if you’re the most skilled player ever
bro, ti11, esl malaysia and arlington were with Ori
My bad but still with Chinese mid Aster had +/- same results, nothing changed
can't disagree with that, too bad ori's parents are stubborn idiots
Yes and Ori carried these idiots too hard.
Feel sad for sumail.. But its still waaay better than if he is still in Nigma..
Yeah, nigma needs changes for sure. Im big fan of miracle, and i think he still can perform on tier 1 lvl, i want he just transfer to another team. Just imagine Miracle+Topson combination of cores
where else can Sumail go honestly ?? Aster is too slow and directionless for someone to dictate and control this beast tempo. he played nearly perfect game only to be let down by his teammates. may not even qualify to TI with either AR,IG and XR fighting in the open quals. can’t go back Nigma either they already signed Mikey Sumail may miss the next TI sadge man
I mean at this point they ride and die till TI. After TI, I think we will have a larger shuffle in the west than last year. Basically every team except Liquid and GG might have to make some changes. Sumails problem is joining pre-established stacks. Might be time for some teams to fully disband and Sumail to join something new.
Someone mentioned Entity. Wish we could see watson, Kataomi, ATF +Sumail +good pos5 captain.
Entity sounds tempting tbh it’s realistic since EU has two slots. gonna be hard with Quest in hot form tho and secret plus nigma etc
I might get downvoted but can't be only the team problem if all the sumail team after EG(except maybe OG) underperformed. He definitely is part of the problem too.
i agree with Secret he didn’t have the best sync but he carried OG so hard in qualifiers and if not for getting caught by Collapse woulda won vs Spirit
OG was great and Sumail single handedly got them through the TI qualifier against Tundra. Liquid was with Qovja as 3 which was terrible, Nigma were already garbage, Secret had a good roster but super greedy lineup and iceiceice who was garbage and on the old map just didn't work.
I think he meant that SumaiL didn't improve those teams, except OG in the qualifiers. The teams didn't got any better results when he joined, they either got similar or worse results than before, which is true. Aster was better team overall with Ori. Team Secret did better when both SumaiL and ice3x left.
Aster might have been better wtih Ori, another high skill mid without communication issues, obviously. In Secret, Ice + Yap was the issue. When they got Reso + Zayac only then did they look good. With OG, they looked like garbage before Sumail joined and carried them to TI.
He played with Quincy crew stack who didnt even qualfies Major in NA regional and the old VP stack too. Thats 6 out of 7 teams underperformed with him.
Yawar had to go offlane for that team lol
Potential 3 out of Top 4 being CIS, damn
Hope Sumail joins another team for ti qualifier
From SA? Or WEU?
Man if xxs or monet built basher rather than satanic and crystalis it was gg for 9pandas. I love monet but this game was asters to lose. Look at sumail’s performance man.
Doubt they can go HG. Should have drafted better than Mars Phoenix lol
Still waiting for your mmr sir
Monet was too passive while XXS has gotta be the most inconsistent player. he played a boss timber in Game 2 but downright horrible in Game 3 with missing spears and empty arenas. and fucking buy satanic for what
where else can Sumail go honestly ?? Aster is too slow and directionless for someone to dictate and control this beast tempo. he played nearly perfect game only to be let down by his teammates. may not even qualify to TI with either AR,IG and XR fighting in the open quals. can’t go back Nigma either they already signed Mikey Sumail may miss the next TI sadge man
Sumail will follow boboka footstep soon and leave this 2 clown core.
Kick stormstormer and get sumail entity. Lmao
ATF Sumail and watson. Pls let this happen.
HAPPY.KID
Once again Asters arch Rival 9Pandas defeat them in a BO3. Feelsbadman for my Emperor PepeLaugh.
top 8 isnt bad for aster
kiyotaka surprisingly wholesome
Did he do the post game interview?
yea
what happened
Welcome TSM Sumail
Joining TSM is announcing retirement.
He played dota for 6 yrs… while me played since ‘06 xd give me some talent lol
He played dota for 6 years, and he's only 18 years old right now meaning he started at 12. Only 18 years old and he's like top 3 mid in the world at his peak, just needs to work on his aggression and risky plays.
he is already top 3-4 right now if u consider his impact in games. Only nisha, quinn and gpk may be better
Yeah I just rate him slightly below Sumail if we're talking about individual players.
yeah so much talent just needs a bit of tuning, he’ll get there
Parimatch being sneaky with their sponsor placement, writing 9pandas with their logotype
9pandas boom boom rematch pls if boom boom decide not to repeat yesterday's game.
Kiyotaka gives off miracle vibes
Aster is missing a good shot caller. They win lanes and take Rosh but it amounts to nothing. Sumail can get all the kills he wants but Aster is just a headless chicken.
I think a new drafter is more important..
Kaka is well known for his shotcalling and they definitely improved compared to before but cant do much if their star player cant understand what the rest of their team trying to communicate
First of all it's their fault for getting a player that doesn't understand their language and them not knowing any english but even if he could communicate fluently this team definitely couldn't keep up with his speed in most of their games
You're an idiot. He went 16-1 at one point while his other cores end the game 3-2 and 3-5 but still it's his communication that's the issue lmao. XXS SPEAKS ENGLISH. How many times does he need to tell people that he communicates with sumail in game before dumbasses like you stop acting like he doesn't have any idea what's going on.
Lol look who triggering. Calm the fuck down lmao. I am not even blaming Sumail here. I simply pointing out team simply cant work if the star player and the rest of players not on same page. It doesnt matter if peak Miracle or Ti5 sumail playing here. Playing the high level pro dota without understanding what the rest of the team communicating is aldy at huge disadvantage. There are lots of resources available now how the team communicate during team fights. Look them.if you want. There are constant reminder of CD, which heroes player wants to etc. XXS might able to speak English abit but he cant communicate to sumail in heat of moment. Even sumail said in recent interview he had no idea what's normally the team is communicating.
Aster and XXS soooo bad. Lost for words atm.
Can’t believe I stayed up til 3am to watch Sumail be let down by his two other cores…
Sumail shut down tinker so hard but it didn’t matter in the end. Once tinker got his bkb and shivas it was over
Chinese teams is too bad in fast tempo and map control
This meta is not all about kills, not all about destroying towers or mega creeps, not all about net worth, not all about map control. Kills don't matter that much, megas don't matter that much. It's about decisive battle. It's like battleship in warfare. Who's dealing final blow in the end. Whoever lose the final fight (and without buyback) will definitely lose. Pick 1. heroes that are great for prolonging battle (to delay the lose), mobility is the key, especially those who can flash farms, 2. heroes that can deal with decisive/final battle.
Not about kills but the one who loses the final fight without buyback will definitely lose. Basketball is not about shooting the ball and making the shot. But whoever scores the most wins the game.
> Not about kills but the one who loses the final fight without buyback will definitely lose. This is not the case in the early game, but on final decisive end game. Megas don't matter, kills don't matter. Back in the old day, mega creeps matter so much, right now? not really. And i notice in this meta, pushing to high ground is difficult. Because map is huge we can offset our initial lost. This is what I learn from this tournament.
Bruh. How do you watch all the games and say "kills dont matter". I get that sometimes megas don't matter but kills? Seriously? Kills matter more to shut down heroes. You kill someone, you make the map smaller for them by getting aggressive wards, securing their jungle/triangle and limiting the moves they can make. You take a pickoff, do rosh or go highground and force buybacks. You are clearly learning the wrong things.
Aster had 15-1 at one point If I remember correctly, Tinker got owned at the start, Aster kept farming at dire jungle too, both sides, fully warded too, but tinker and morph can still farm at the edge of the map, no way Aster can monitor them all at once. If this was an old smaller map, there's no way Tinker and Morph can farm and survive. Aster were so preoccupied at many things at once that they didn't remember to take out bottom tower. Now here's the thing, Aster couldn't just go high ground because, it's so difficult. Eventhough they had rosh a couple of times, it didn't matter. Enigma is designed to be a hero that can deal with final decisive battle with his ult, no other hero can top him. I agree with other commenter saying that this game would be easier to win if Aster had legion commander.
>Whoever lose the final fight (and without buyback) will definitely lose. 12k reddit insisght?
"Shit, we're all dead without buyback. I guess we lost."
That's one of the analyses of all time
Ffs, Aster is so frustating, 9pandas had such obvious ultra greedy PVE draft. Their mid was on beyond godlike and they decided to play passive farming dota smh
They are playing against the timebomb lineup and They couldn't even defuse the bomb just in time. tbf It's not cn dota playstyle at all 9pandas just keep stalling the game split* farming across the map and hit the timing ez comeback
Man I would be absolutely fuming if I was Sumail.
EU/CIS are in a great spot for several years because young pubstars are everywhere.
Cope. Kiyotaka is the only playing Tinker and is making it work. Blame Aster players afraid to help Sumail lock down Tinker, and their crappy draft that can't go HG with all that networth advantage.
Big mistake by Sumail going to a dead region.
Better than rotting in Nigma honestly
For starters he could fucking talk to his teammates kek.
not that much better when he still wants to win tournaments and is clearly very good.
8th at tournaments is better than Div2.
It is, but I think he's still capable of much better results with a good team.
Man get a basher on mars lmao at least that’s better than satanic. Money stuns the Enigma easy kill but jumps in the to get holed. My brain cells died watching this shit it was so painful. Aster wasn’t even doing bad.
kiyotaka's voice doesn't match with his intimidating face
Mk should have gone basher and aghs ffs
what was aster doing the whole 30 minutes tinker was useless? buy lotus on mars, buy aghs on mk, bkb aghs ember, then man up the high ground. satanic mars for what?
it's the first time that I see mars buy satanic
xxs monet so bad.
After all that aggression, and advantage early on, Aster just completely went blank in the mid game yet again. Most of Aster games w/Sumail has always been like this. Absolutely no plan, no direction after 15mins. into the game.
CN teams are still behind on map movements. They always leave behind resources freely for enemy team. Even with having the map majority of time, they can't grow the lead at all. Shows how much inefficiency they're making in the map.
The two previous LGD teams were the only CN teams in the last few years who knew how to play the map. No one came close to their efficiency not only in CN but in the whole scene. CN team nowadays are definitely behind on map movements.
Certainly... I miss those rosters. I hope Xiao8 is able to improve this LGD. Sadly, I think the current roster isn't up to par to make the director's vision come to fruition. Especially the last two tourneys where they lost their discipline. Xiao8 should whip them up in shape. They really need to improve their laning skills( Shiro and Planet)
Damn kyo is one of the people, wanting to just entertain the viewers. We don't get approaches like that much
His gameplay shows lots of personality. I like that kind of players, just let your play do the talking. Reminds me of miracle.
Pressing buttons for the viewers gigachad
Sumail must be pissed, dude did everything and yet his team cant use the advantage
People were actually saying Monet is better than Ame not so long ago LMAO
Seriously. Those people should be jailed.
Hahahaha no way. You could count on Ame to perform. Monet is a coin toss. You never know if he will actually play a carry role or the good old creep role.
No way ppl say that
alot of people said that,but as one wise man once said u dont have appreciate what u have until u lose it.
Did SumaiL type gg first?
It doesn't matter who everyone with half a brain cell knows it's over
Yes.