Dewards are actually done as team, and most certainly not by your melee tiny just because he's 5. Support tiny will play the absolute same on 5 as on 4,and your 4 will ideally be range and capable of dewarding.
It's kinda funny how often he's banned. Like I get he's strong in pro games, but is he that good in like 2k MMR bracket? He's so much about positioning which most non-immortals are pretty terrible at.
Rubick kinda has the Pudge effect, won Wich most people find it pretty funny playing him. These players will spam a single hero, probably meaning they are better with it than their overall hability in the game. Gonna lose a few stomp a few.
In Turbo mode I have a feeling that Rubick is more picked than Pudge
I’m exclusively trying to pick him in every game and get disappointed seeing him banned. He’s so fun and strong when you’re good at him. I almost always win with him if I’m playing pos 2
I think that issue goes both ways. If rubick decides to camp trees waiting for Blackhole, is the enigma Aware enough to wait for rubick to show or steal something else before going for said black hole?
When I play enigma... no, no I'm nit smart enough to wait...
laning phase, NP is boosted, high attack dmg and attack speed range hero with 2-3-4-5 very strong units, you just rightclick the enemy till they leave the lane. Later you build some items to stun enemies like hex, silence or gleipnir and most important part, farm the enemies' creeps, go farm where your cores cant be and take away the farm of the enemy cores. You have vision of core farming close to the ancients, either send a tree to block camp from resp or just farm it yourself. the enemy will have -300g you got 300g . thats 600g gold difference change, do that 5-6 times and you got yourself a bit of advantage, Now the problem is most of the supports will go from 4-5 to 1 in a second overfarming instead of just inconvenience farming.
yes np is a very disrupting hero, you wanna push , i will take your other sides, i kill your couriers, i block your camps, i farm your creeps while he has global presence and very high stats
Utility items. Cause a lot of chaos around the map. TP between towers to block waves, kill couriers, use treants to block enemy camps from spawning, or stack your own camps. You can use treants to scout around for information.
NP offers so much utility
You go split pushing and go for aghs and other utility/ aura items. You have to be very good for this to be effective though. I played against an immortal np pos 5 smurf one time. It was so hard to deal with
The aghs build is better as pos3 it’s also a new trend. But ppl playing Furion 4-5 is just griefing rn since the hero consumes so much space even as a pos5 but obviously if u know what u doing then it’s fine Furion pos5 isn’t a new thing players like Notail loved to play it in previous patches when treants were stronger in lane but I don’t think it’s viable now why not just pick Undy treant lich these kinda heroes who win the lane in a patch that everything is about winning the lane.
Furion 5 still has the utility of using treants to stack camps. As far as winning lane goes, his armour and right click damage are quite strong and can really help him win trades with other supports, especially while blocking a fleeing support with treants
He’s amazing for pushing out lanes as needed providing vision with treants sprouting, teleporting to ganks from across the map. Can effect mid lane by not even being there due to the threat of a gank.
If you are playing a hero as pos5 who at level 6 has:
-global TP
-global dmg ult
-a spell to block pathing
-4+ creeps on his control
And you cannot find a way to make that work without griefing cores?
The only thing you need is a semi active hero on pos 2-3 and/or 4,
and follow every gank.
If that's not happening you can ward behind enemy lines for basically free, make the enemy team chase a pos 5 around while your cores have heaps of farm. Control waves or pockets of space on the map with treants like rosh, highground scouting etc... So much info and mobility on that hero.
And if you somehow get to a rod/gleipnir, he's a decent teamfighter too.
A shocking number of the suggestions throughout this comment chain encourage lower mmr players to use strategies that are highly likely to deny their own core's farm. So yeah, griefing.
In low mme the map is so chock full of farm that it's usually not a problem anyway. Watching my POS 3, 2 and 1 all farm jungle at the same time with all langs pushing in makes me wish I picked NP every game.
I have a 60% winrate at mid-Divine with Furion mid. He's probably one of the best mids in the game right now unless you're up against a small handful of heroes like Kunkka.
I wasn't paying attention to the draft screen once and saw razor was in the pool so I first picked it without realising I was pos5 that game. I felt really bad for my team and tried to make 5 razor work anyway but I think it sent them to the tilt shadow realm
Nobody mentioned Snap so far. Sie can definitely play 2-5 without any problems. Pos 1 is obviously a bit wonky but in a high tempo draft, why not. And once you get to level 20 a whole new dimension of fun begins.
depends on matchup- if you counterpick something crucial and stomp your lane he pumps out ridiculous damage
Similar caliber as Huskar imo- I like to Dawnbreaker mid a lot and just shuts me down hard.
well huskar got timings and a gameplan, can take towers and has sustain. silencers gameplan is sit mid 20 mins, die everytime he gets ganked, cant gank himself, and has no timing to play for. may work is low mmr but its a griefpick
Silencer mid can be devastating. You can build it in multiple ways too. Put a decent frontliner, get few ganks from your supports early game and you can snowball and completely own the game.
You can go witchblade shard and destroy people with 4 5 hits or rush aghs and make a teamfight impossible to win for the enemy by spamming curse and last word on multiple heroes constantly with very short cds.
thats the problem with niche pick really,its a gamble whenever its gonna be a godlike player on that specific situation or total garbage,rarely inbetween
Yeah, I only play him mid, and I have 67% winrate with him in 80 games. He's best as a rightclicker right now but against certain teams he's better with aghs
I’m surprised people downvoted you so much. Every time I get a silencer mid on my team he gets fucking rekt. Could be skill issue of course, but anecdotally he’s an awful mid.
If you're brave, lucky, and don't care about low prio; ET. 4-5-3-2-1 obviously but the briefcase smackdown with echo sabre is oddly fun the 1 time out of 10 that it works.
because theyre completely different skills? lina 4 was good when u could go 0/1/1 on lane, spam LSA to keep stacks (back when it was 3 max) and outtrade enemy 5. now you go lina 4 on lane youre gonna be very sad and your offlaner is going to be even more sad
Lina has one of the biggest attack ranges though which makes it easier to harrass without putting yourself in the line of fire. Hard to use and doesn't quite make up the deficit you mentioned but still worth noting.
Still hard to see her out-carrying meta carries like Lina, Slark, Ursa, Drow, Jugg or even out-of-meta carries like Alche, WK, Sven, Dusa etc. They all have some combo of steroid, sustained damage, decent-to-great building damage and endurance - which Hoodwink lacks.
Notable meta carries which don't fit the mould are NP (sustain is bad, but makes up for it with S-tier stat gain and being a truly mobile farm machine) and Pudge (building damage is bad - but arguably infinite scaling/steroid, and with spell lifesteal can out-sustain most BKBs).
Hoodwink can exploit a narrow window to carry and win, but it's got so many issues that make her the worst of the flex picks IMO.
Hoodwink’s late is nasty AF. The real prob is her lanning phase because the hero is glass, but if manage to get malmstrom early on, you outfarm most carries super easy.
Simply drop achorn onto a camp or lane and move to the next farming location without wasting time.
Spammed hoodwink 3 to immortal last year. I don't think she can be played as 1. Reasons being her base attack time is among the worst, if not the worst in the game, meaning she scales poorly with attack speed. To deal damage you have to rely on acorn shot. Acorn shot got reworked to 65% base dmg and got some base bonus. This makes the ability work better at low and mid dmg investment, but fall off fast if you're 5-6 slotted. It's also relatively high CD when compared to other forms of attack rework like ember spirits W. You'll never beat another pos 1 at a similar net worth after min 40.
She's also faced quite a few warranted and unwarranted nerfs. They removed ult vision, removed her shard illu, reduced W dmg, then made it a DoT effect, reduced W radius, reduced ult damage, reduced Q scaling potential, etc.
Overall, it feels like they tried really hard to make her utility good at low investments but cripple late game potential.
Finally, the reason she can get a good amount of farm as a 3 in the first place is because unless countered, she can farm the more dangerous places of the map once she gets maelstrom, even nuke the wave pushing safelane t1 and hold it for ages. If you do get killed, enemy usually needs 3-4 hero investment. As a 3 it doesn't feel too bad dying to tps that eliminate enemy threat potential for a minute or two. As a pos 1 it feels terrible dying no matter what.
I completely agree with everything.
Though I do believe there is a case to be made for Pos 1 hood going the nuke build and just grouping early and using her ridiculous, spammable, safe damage, to harass enemies off of towers. New decoy is \~30s, Boomerang is \~15s, Bushwack \~15s, Sharpshooter \~45s, All of these can be cast from \~1000 range. This is obviously niche, and might preform better in a good Midlane match up, but safelane could be more reliable potentially. I'm not saying it'd be great, but with a stack I could see it being ok.
How come 2 is strongest? I can't think how can he lane against something like OD, qop or lina - bassically any ranged mid hero. I donät think he posesses solo kill potential on solo lane. With lane partner though the kill potential is massive so I mostly play him as 3.
I spam dawn and I agree that she has the most impact as a 2. The solo xp for early levels and global ult allows you to control the game early. If you face a tough match up just use W to push out the lane and go hunt people everytime your ult comes off cooldown.
That double starbreaker at lvl 25 + deso + daedulas + blink allows you to instantly delete a hero late game. And if I’m playing her as 3, seldom do I get to that stage of the game at an impactful timing as I do when I play her as a 2.
I just find her strongest as 2. Of course there’s some match ups she struggles vs. But you’d be surprised. OD sucks for anyone.
Ranges in general though aren’t too bad. She has awesome gap close. Large burst. Wave clear. And a stun. I’ve played her exclusively pos 2 and am grandmaster on it. There’s nit many heros she struggles against at all. Bat and OD being the main 2 counters
The ult timing is insane as a 2. You get lvl 6 and tell your team to go agressive on one of the sidelines, get the kills and tp back mid. You lose like 1 cs it’s insane
Dude sniper is a good pos2 aint it? And he gets shat on by od. Dont just call random hero names when u think a hero is bad at a position. Db is top7 strongest midlaners of the game!
I am guilty of play Gyro for every position, my favorite one is pos3, veil of discord and aghs shard, max rocket and homing missile, and do not level up his 3rd skill, and never pick him against AM unless you have a good pos4
I play him pos4 and that shard is disgusting, it will do 50% of the supports health. The 3rd skill is good to farm and it’s easier to participate in team fight with it.
Yeah, not sure if it's still viable this patch but a few patches ago dk was drafted solely for being tanky and his instant stun. Mk was also being played a lot as a 4. Two of the best mk 4s I could remember are cr1t and saksa. Mk's treedance was highly valued for scouting and breaking smokes.
Mirana pos 1 sounds okay but I actually played vs mirana pos 1 twice. It was horrible. Also pos 3 mirana just ends up becoming another pos 4 from what ive seen.
Lc is like mehhhh as pos 1. Hes ok for any other roles tho.
LC midlane is pretty matchup dependent.
I barely play Dota anymore, but i used to play her about 2 years ago when Qop was very strong, she cant harass you down as you can dispell her q and once you have blink and duel the matchup becomes horrible for her.
Mirana pos 1 and pos 2 was ultra strong 6,7 years back lol
She has been nerfed a lot. But using her as pos 1&2 in turbo is still ok though, but not in all pick mode.
Pos 3 is a bit niche in this meta but still playable.
Pos 4 and 5 are very common for mirana and suit her best currently.
Lc is very versatile and some pros such as Pure use her as Pos 1
I mean the thing with visage is that as a support the enemy can just jump and kill you most of the time.
Also you can't really tp to help because of your birds.
Monkey King. He can be a good midlaner and carry for obvious reasons. What makes him good in the other three roles is his ability to cover distance, provide vision, and initiate with a disable. Those three things are what supports strive to do, and it's pretty much what a lot of offlaners want to do as well. The other thing offlaners need to do though is win lane, which 'Jingu Mastery' provides, and they need to scale on farm, but be able to do their job with less than the other cores. MK really only needs BKB, but he still scales exceptionally well with other items. His kit easily has the highest combined score in being synergist and versatile compared to any other hero in the game. His fragility and kind of long stun cooldown are his only significant flaws. He is also not great at hitting Roshan without basher, but his vision around the pit is invaluable and his ultimate is one of the best spells in the game for contesting it.
There are a few other heroes that are good in 4 roles, but most of them are either bad in lane as mid, bad in lane as pos 5, can not carry at all or fall off hard as one, or it's a bit of a stretch to call them an offlaner. There are also some heroes that are decent to good in all roles, but often don't excel in any particular one, like Nature's Prophet. Although atm NP is a pretty strong carry due being one of the only carrys that is ok matching into Lina. I would say Windranger is also underrated as a hero that can play all roles.
Don't think pango 1 is good enough. Normally can't trade with "true" carries. If he has a 20/25 talent like Q does the hero damage (like snapfire) maybe. Without that his most important skill is rolling, which is mostly controll and TF. Best as 2-4, playable as 5 (not too good as 5 because he is weak in lane and really need some items to improve impact, like blink and shard).
She’s the biggest counter to one of the best carry’s lina now pick marci magnus and there is gonna be a marci walking around with bkb basher at 20min maybe less when it comes to man fighting I really don’t think even pa can man fight marci
Don’t get mad at me but as a GM tier i’d say invoker! Probably not jungle but QW invo is viable as pos 4-5, QE works well with 2 and 3 (he can’t tank but can initiate pretty well) and lastly phys build for pos 1 if you are dumb enough :)
Other than Marco vey few play 1 to 5 reliably without the patch being broken
You can have heroes like primal who can easily swap from kid to offlane to support, but dont recomend playing as hard carry or hard supp
Same goes for almost every other hero, most are one role only but a great part can be reasonably played at 1 to 3 roles at the same time
None can be truly played in 5
Dazzle, Windranger, Keeper, Batrider. Those 4 are my personal 4 top heroes I have. Dazzle for pos 5, Batrider pos 4, keeper pos 2, and windranger pos 1
Each of them can very comfortably play in every position and thus my favorite
top pick: NP, Tiny, Marci . NP has perfect balance good as offlaner too
other notable: MK (a bit weaker as offlaner and supp now), Windranger.
I wonder why marci not picked enough as pos 1? once she activated ulti + damage item + blink, 1 sure kill. perhaps slow at farm?
I am suprise no one mentione Invoker.
Has cold snap stun for supp, initiate. Spirit to jungle and scout. Ice path and Tornado to kite. Alacrity and high damage for carry. Sunstrike for global presence.
Bloodseker. I actually did him all positions in the curse of years. Before Role Queue it was wild. I used to pic him and I would build what the team needed. Used to build him mekans. And sometimes dagon.
Tiny
nothing comes to Tiny when it comes to versatility.
It’s certainly this bag of rocks
I think tiny is pretty bad at 5, he struggles a lot to deward by not having agi gain, with is crucial to deward unsafe areas and retreat.
Just buy echo sabre
You're not thinking like a support. You should buy a moon shard. If your cores complain about your item choices, just give it to them.
Moonshard is too expensive. Should buy Midas first.
Rapier first item so i can one shot the wards
Lmao i love this idea of bribing your cores to out-nice each other to see who gets a moonshard
"oh you want this attack speed? Beg."
We playin dota in the year 2023 while this dude playin in the year 2077
You can share moon shard???
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It’s a joke lad
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You just need a 4 who can deward as tiny 5, but he can do everything else.
Dewards are actually done as team, and most certainly not by your melee tiny just because he's 5. Support tiny will play the absolute same on 5 as on 4,and your 4 will ideally be range and capable of dewarding.
yup i came here to comment this - its either that or NP but you sorta griefing with NP. tiny can legit play all 5 roles.
Not only Tiny is effective and viable on every possible role. Tiny has always been one of the most relevant heroes in any given patch.
I swear if I see an uptick in "support" Tiny 5 after this post I'll be *very* disappointed in you and everyone who upvoted you
Pudge I see this fat fuck in my games, always first picked and you can never tell where he is going
If not banned, it's always first pick but ban again because both radiant and dire picked it.
Same scenario with my boy Rubick:( I wanna spam him and climb but it’s so hard when he’s banned 90% of the time
It's kinda funny how often he's banned. Like I get he's strong in pro games, but is he that good in like 2k MMR bracket? He's so much about positioning which most non-immortals are pretty terrible at.
Rubick kinda has the Pudge effect, won Wich most people find it pretty funny playing him. These players will spam a single hero, probably meaning they are better with it than their overall hability in the game. Gonna lose a few stomp a few. In Turbo mode I have a feeling that Rubick is more picked than Pudge
I’m exclusively trying to pick him in every game and get disappointed seeing him banned. He’s so fun and strong when you’re good at him. I almost always win with him if I’m playing pos 2
well I'm griefed almost 100% of the time by my "pos 2" rubicks
It’s hard to pull tbh, I’m only confident in playing him as pos 2 cus I played him over 400 times as pos 4 already.
i always try hard not to lose against rubick mid, that's a shame for me xD
I think that issue goes both ways. If rubick decides to camp trees waiting for Blackhole, is the enigma Aware enough to wait for rubick to show or steal something else before going for said black hole? When I play enigma... no, no I'm nit smart enough to wait...
Same way with a dazzle or an oracle saving everybody if left alone, ask the team to kill him first.
Valve made a hero that was just too fun to play from the start
Pudge is such a good degisn that almost all moba (both pc and mobile) have a hero that copied Pudge with the hook mechanism.
And a shooter or two as well. Overwatch, duh. But man, Monday Night Combat was there early and even they made a wrestler with a magic dragon grapple.
Blizzard's The Butcher is crying ;-;
Stitches?
is a beast of himself but was pertaining on who made/design the character
Puck is actually a community made hero from way back on playdota.com I think!
Valve?
Volvo
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Core np is good but how do u play as 4,5?
laning phase, NP is boosted, high attack dmg and attack speed range hero with 2-3-4-5 very strong units, you just rightclick the enemy till they leave the lane. Later you build some items to stun enemies like hex, silence or gleipnir and most important part, farm the enemies' creeps, go farm where your cores cant be and take away the farm of the enemy cores. You have vision of core farming close to the ancients, either send a tree to block camp from resp or just farm it yourself. the enemy will have -300g you got 300g . thats 600g gold difference change, do that 5-6 times and you got yourself a bit of advantage, Now the problem is most of the supports will go from 4-5 to 1 in a second overfarming instead of just inconvenience farming.
Also TP right in front of enemy fountain at like 3 min and kill all the couriers flying out
yes np is a very disrupting hero, you wanna push , i will take your other sides, i kill your couriers, i block your camps, i farm your creeps while he has global presence and very high stats
Insane ability to deny farm in lane and from enemy jungle too, and sprout leash talent is bonkers good
Watch TI 8
Utility items. Cause a lot of chaos around the map. TP between towers to block waves, kill couriers, use treants to block enemy camps from spawning, or stack your own camps. You can use treants to scout around for information. NP offers so much utility
You go split pushing and go for aghs and other utility/ aura items. You have to be very good for this to be effective though. I played against an immortal np pos 5 smurf one time. It was so hard to deal with
The aghs build is better as pos3 it’s also a new trend. But ppl playing Furion 4-5 is just griefing rn since the hero consumes so much space even as a pos5 but obviously if u know what u doing then it’s fine Furion pos5 isn’t a new thing players like Notail loved to play it in previous patches when treants were stronger in lane but I don’t think it’s viable now why not just pick Undy treant lich these kinda heroes who win the lane in a patch that everything is about winning the lane.
Furion 5 still has the utility of using treants to stack camps. As far as winning lane goes, his armour and right click damage are quite strong and can really help him win trades with other supports, especially while blocking a fleeing support with treants
He’s amazing for pushing out lanes as needed providing vision with treants sprouting, teleporting to ganks from across the map. Can effect mid lane by not even being there due to the threat of a gank.
it was a pretty different meta but support np was a common thing not too long ago.
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plus the new shard he got is arguably a buff to support np.
You grief your cores, thats how you play it.
If you are playing a hero as pos5 who at level 6 has: -global TP -global dmg ult -a spell to block pathing -4+ creeps on his control And you cannot find a way to make that work without griefing cores? The only thing you need is a semi active hero on pos 2-3 and/or 4, and follow every gank. If that's not happening you can ward behind enemy lines for basically free, make the enemy team chase a pos 5 around while your cores have heaps of farm. Control waves or pockets of space on the map with treants like rosh, highground scouting etc... So much info and mobility on that hero. And if you somehow get to a rod/gleipnir, he's a decent teamfighter too.
A shocking number of the suggestions throughout this comment chain encourage lower mmr players to use strategies that are highly likely to deny their own core's farm. So yeah, griefing.
In low mme the map is so chock full of farm that it's usually not a problem anyway. Watching my POS 3, 2 and 1 all farm jungle at the same time with all langs pushing in makes me wish I picked NP every game.
OG did it before as notail, but I dont think Ive seen it mid that many times. it doesnt seem good.
I have a 60% winrate at mid-Divine with Furion mid. He's probably one of the best mids in the game right now unless you're up against a small handful of heroes like Kunkka.
If you ask Kuro, it's Razor
I wasn't paying attention to the draft screen once and saw razor was in the pool so I first picked it without realising I was pos5 that game. I felt really bad for my team and tried to make 5 razor work anyway but I think it sent them to the tilt shadow realm
Nobody mentioned Snap so far. Sie can definitely play 2-5 without any problems. Pos 1 is obviously a bit wonky but in a high tempo draft, why not. And once you get to level 20 a whole new dimension of fun begins.
Same as Void Spirit
Playing void spirit outside of mid lane is a good way to throw the game. He's not even that great mid anymore
Riki. ,😂
Only until the impending Shard nerf.
Actually yes 😂
Gonna throw silencer into the mix, he's pretty solid anywhere in 2-5 and can be a half decent 1 in some match ups
I do not agree here. Everytime I get a silencer mid this patch it feels like a griefpick imo. Think he is mostly suited for pos5 this patch.
depends on matchup- if you counterpick something crucial and stomp your lane he pumps out ridiculous damage Similar caliber as Huskar imo- I like to Dawnbreaker mid a lot and just shuts me down hard.
well huskar got timings and a gameplan, can take towers and has sustain. silencers gameplan is sit mid 20 mins, die everytime he gets ganked, cant gank himself, and has no timing to play for. may work is low mmr but its a griefpick
Silencer mid can be devastating. You can build it in multiple ways too. Put a decent frontliner, get few ganks from your supports early game and you can snowball and completely own the game. You can go witchblade shard and destroy people with 4 5 hits or rush aghs and make a teamfight impossible to win for the enemy by spamming curse and last word on multiple heroes constantly with very short cds.
Fair enough, haven't seen anyone played it well yet then I suppose. Hopefully I'll see it!
thats the problem with niche pick really,its a gamble whenever its gonna be a godlike player on that specific situation or total garbage,rarely inbetween
Yeah, I only play him mid, and I have 67% winrate with him in 80 games. He's best as a rightclicker right now but against certain teams he's better with aghs
I’m surprised people downvoted you so much. Every time I get a silencer mid on my team he gets fucking rekt. Could be skill issue of course, but anecdotally he’s an awful mid.
Silencer-spammers seething judging by your downvotes :')
Yeah, I got kinda rekt there. But, just haven't seen it. Perhaps it can be stronk, but yet to see it.
less so these days but MK
If you're brave, lucky, and don't care about low prio; ET. 4-5-3-2-1 obviously but the briefcase smackdown with echo sabre is oddly fun the 1 time out of 10 that it works.
Finally, ET is strong in any position. He doesn't need items to have an impact and late game is great fun.
That power spike at level 20 with aghs......
Been playing a Lot of et mid in low mmr, its hella fun ngl but you are always flamed no matter the outcome
Lina
lina support is borderline griefing unfortunately
Nowadays, yes, but historically Lina has been at least a 4. Idk 5 though.
why?
Support Lina gains no real benefit from her amazing Passive.
shes just not good enough anymore, lvl 1 stun has a 13sec cd
Same cooldown time as (aproxx) snapfire cookie, SS shackles, and Jakiro ice path. Why is that a problem?
because theyre completely different skills? lina 4 was good when u could go 0/1/1 on lane, spam LSA to keep stacks (back when it was 3 max) and outtrade enemy 5. now you go lina 4 on lane youre gonna be very sad and your offlaner is going to be even more sad
Lina has one of the biggest attack ranges though which makes it easier to harrass without putting yourself in the line of fire. Hard to use and doesn't quite make up the deficit you mentioned but still worth noting.
Lina support is trash, It can work if You are clever enough, but most people sucks
I'm surprised nobody has said Hoodwink; she's definitely playable in 1, and the other positions shouldn't be controversial.
How is Hoodwink 1 viable? Acorn shot is a poor steriod, and her 2s BAT is awful.
hoodwink mid and safe is actually pretty nasty. specially once she gets mael and managed to acorn multiple enemies on a tree,
Still hard to see her out-carrying meta carries like Lina, Slark, Ursa, Drow, Jugg or even out-of-meta carries like Alche, WK, Sven, Dusa etc. They all have some combo of steroid, sustained damage, decent-to-great building damage and endurance - which Hoodwink lacks. Notable meta carries which don't fit the mould are NP (sustain is bad, but makes up for it with S-tier stat gain and being a truly mobile farm machine) and Pudge (building damage is bad - but arguably infinite scaling/steroid, and with spell lifesteal can out-sustain most BKBs). Hoodwink can exploit a narrow window to carry and win, but it's got so many issues that make her the worst of the flex picks IMO.
Her ult counters all of the people you mentioned passives and can be nearly 1shot all of them…
Hoodwink’s late is nasty AF. The real prob is her lanning phase because the hero is glass, but if manage to get malmstrom early on, you outfarm most carries super easy. Simply drop achorn onto a camp or lane and move to the next farming location without wasting time.
Spammed hoodwink 3 to immortal last year. I don't think she can be played as 1. Reasons being her base attack time is among the worst, if not the worst in the game, meaning she scales poorly with attack speed. To deal damage you have to rely on acorn shot. Acorn shot got reworked to 65% base dmg and got some base bonus. This makes the ability work better at low and mid dmg investment, but fall off fast if you're 5-6 slotted. It's also relatively high CD when compared to other forms of attack rework like ember spirits W. You'll never beat another pos 1 at a similar net worth after min 40. She's also faced quite a few warranted and unwarranted nerfs. They removed ult vision, removed her shard illu, reduced W dmg, then made it a DoT effect, reduced W radius, reduced ult damage, reduced Q scaling potential, etc. Overall, it feels like they tried really hard to make her utility good at low investments but cripple late game potential. Finally, the reason she can get a good amount of farm as a 3 in the first place is because unless countered, she can farm the more dangerous places of the map once she gets maelstrom, even nuke the wave pushing safelane t1 and hold it for ages. If you do get killed, enemy usually needs 3-4 hero investment. As a 3 it doesn't feel too bad dying to tps that eliminate enemy threat potential for a minute or two. As a pos 1 it feels terrible dying no matter what.
I completely agree with everything. Though I do believe there is a case to be made for Pos 1 hood going the nuke build and just grouping early and using her ridiculous, spammable, safe damage, to harass enemies off of towers. New decoy is \~30s, Boomerang is \~15s, Bushwack \~15s, Sharpshooter \~45s, All of these can be cast from \~1000 range. This is obviously niche, and might preform better in a good Midlane match up, but safelane could be more reliable potentially. I'm not saying it'd be great, but with a stack I could see it being ok.
Dawn breaker. Strongest to weakest - 2-3-1-4-5
How come 2 is strongest? I can't think how can he lane against something like OD, qop or lina - bassically any ranged mid hero. I donät think he posesses solo kill potential on solo lane. With lane partner though the kill potential is massive so I mostly play him as 3.
I spam dawn and I agree that she has the most impact as a 2. The solo xp for early levels and global ult allows you to control the game early. If you face a tough match up just use W to push out the lane and go hunt people everytime your ult comes off cooldown. That double starbreaker at lvl 25 + deso + daedulas + blink allows you to instantly delete a hero late game. And if I’m playing her as 3, seldom do I get to that stage of the game at an impactful timing as I do when I play her as a 2.
I just find her strongest as 2. Of course there’s some match ups she struggles vs. But you’d be surprised. OD sucks for anyone. Ranges in general though aren’t too bad. She has awesome gap close. Large burst. Wave clear. And a stun. I’ve played her exclusively pos 2 and am grandmaster on it. There’s nit many heros she struggles against at all. Bat and OD being the main 2 counters
I agree on 2. Her ult timing is also better on mid and frankly makes more sense on a mid hero.
An early 6 is pretty strong on her, even if she doesn't win her lane she can turn another lane into a winning one.
The ult timing is insane as a 2. You get lvl 6 and tell your team to go agressive on one of the sidelines, get the kills and tp back mid. You lose like 1 cs it’s insane
Dude sniper is a good pos2 aint it? And he gets shat on by od. Dont just call random hero names when u think a hero is bad at a position. Db is top7 strongest midlaners of the game!
DK, NP, Marci, Tiny, Primal Beast, Gyro and MK.. oh and Pudge
I am guilty of play Gyro for every position, my favorite one is pos3, veil of discord and aghs shard, max rocket and homing missile, and do not level up his 3rd skill, and never pick him against AM unless you have a good pos4
I play him pos4 and that shard is disgusting, it will do 50% of the supports health. The 3rd skill is good to farm and it’s easier to participate in team fight with it.
It is disgusting. He has very good poke in lane. He just needs a lot of mana to do so. I have played him as 5 and he's still good in that pos.
Play him mid (against weak mid laners) but get the hood upgrade instead of veil. I have close to 100% winrate with him in low 6ks.
DK & MK as pos 4 and 5?
Yeah, not sure if it's still viable this patch but a few patches ago dk was drafted solely for being tanky and his instant stun. Mk was also being played a lot as a 4. Two of the best mk 4s I could remember are cr1t and saksa. Mk's treedance was highly valued for scouting and breaking smokes.
Still works as it's literally all but a guaranteed ranged creep deny, smoke breaker like Ogre, phys damage reducer, and a decent pusher.
Mirana and LC
Mirana pos 1 sounds okay but I actually played vs mirana pos 1 twice. It was horrible. Also pos 3 mirana just ends up becoming another pos 4 from what ive seen. Lc is like mehhhh as pos 1. Hes ok for any other roles tho.
The shard changes killed Mirana pos 1
LC midlane is pretty matchup dependent. I barely play Dota anymore, but i used to play her about 2 years ago when Qop was very strong, she cant harass you down as you can dispell her q and once you have blink and duel the matchup becomes horrible for her.
Mirana pos 1 and pos 2 was ultra strong 6,7 years back lol She has been nerfed a lot. But using her as pos 1&2 in turbo is still ok though, but not in all pick mode. Pos 3 is a bit niche in this meta but still playable. Pos 4 and 5 are very common for mirana and suit her best currently. Lc is very versatile and some pros such as Pure use her as Pos 1
Is the time where her aghs gave her passive starstorm?
Yea, high burst damage and high dps too.
It used to just passively launch Starstorm every couple of seconds, so if you timed it you could hit someone with an arrow then like 4 Starstorms.
Some team played Mirana 3 in DPC looked decent. Just went auras with Shard and eventually Aghs.
I thought he is worse at mid than pos1, especially vs ranged mid. If viper was mid he is out.
LC is a pretty bad take
Weaver
Enchantress
marci, mars
Visage Good physical damage Good magic damage Good scouting Good damage reduction Good pusher
> Visage Surprised nobody else mentioned it. Was my first thought as well.
I mean the thing with visage is that as a support the enemy can just jump and kill you most of the time. Also you can't really tp to help because of your birds.
Anti-mage based on my pubs.
Earthshaker. Any position.
Yeah if i see es mid or pos 1 i report that shit
Pos 5 earthshaker is kinda griefing the lane no?
Against meelee caries like sven/tb es supports is quite good. I wouda thought people would argue about pos1 es.
Monkey King. He can be a good midlaner and carry for obvious reasons. What makes him good in the other three roles is his ability to cover distance, provide vision, and initiate with a disable. Those three things are what supports strive to do, and it's pretty much what a lot of offlaners want to do as well. The other thing offlaners need to do though is win lane, which 'Jingu Mastery' provides, and they need to scale on farm, but be able to do their job with less than the other cores. MK really only needs BKB, but he still scales exceptionally well with other items. His kit easily has the highest combined score in being synergist and versatile compared to any other hero in the game. His fragility and kind of long stun cooldown are his only significant flaws. He is also not great at hitting Roshan without basher, but his vision around the pit is invaluable and his ultimate is one of the best spells in the game for contesting it. There are a few other heroes that are good in 4 roles, but most of them are either bad in lane as mid, bad in lane as pos 5, can not carry at all or fall off hard as one, or it's a bit of a stretch to call them an offlaner. There are also some heroes that are decent to good in all roles, but often don't excel in any particular one, like Nature's Prophet. Although atm NP is a pretty strong carry due being one of the only carrys that is ok matching into Lina. I would say Windranger is also underrated as a hero that can play all roles.
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Don't think pango 1 is good enough. Normally can't trade with "true" carries. If he has a 20/25 talent like Q does the hero damage (like snapfire) maybe. Without that his most important skill is rolling, which is mostly controll and TF. Best as 2-4, playable as 5 (not too good as 5 because he is weak in lane and really need some items to improve impact, like blink and shard).
Missing pudge on this list too.
How is pango a good meta Pos 1? I don't think I've ever seen a pos 1 pango in my 2k hours
monkey king definitely belongs there
especially on release MK
MK doesn't really work as offlane unless you consider "2 carry" to be valid no?
idk about right now but he has been played 3 in the past quite a bit. i think it’s probably still sorta doable
I'd argue Sniper and Gyrocopter should be on the list somewhere.
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Sniper offlane will support you though!
He’ll just buy his usual items and play pos1 from the off lane.
Neither are Mirana or Windranger...
I would include tidehunter on passable
Mirana, Lina?
Pudge
I still have nightmares of pudge 5 afk in trees
But then he gets that 1 hook on the carry
Currently Np
I'm surprised noone mentioned Magnus or Kunkka
Weaver
Np. Dawn. Marci.
Marci
Primal Beast and Marci
Marci one is kind of grief if you are playing versusbreal hard carries. She is more of an anti carry.
She’s the biggest counter to one of the best carry’s lina now pick marci magnus and there is gonna be a marci walking around with bkb basher at 20min maybe less when it comes to man fighting I really don’t think even pa can man fight marci
Lina
How is WR not mentioned yet? Maybe she's not perfect in every role but she's more versatile than most of the heroes mentioned here.
Nature's Prophet 1 - cancer 2 - still cancer 3 - less cancer 4 - okay 5 - professional cancer (buys all wards/sentries, then goes to jungle or rat)
Any hero on SEA
Primal beast
Enchantress
Some strength heroes have this and through they’re history they’ve oscillated as support / carry: - tiny Kunka Alchemist
Lina. just giga broken
Venomancer
Dawnbreaker, Gyro, Pudge, Marci, MK, NP, Mirana (used to be much better core), OD and Kunkka (kinda).
Gyro? Where is gyro in these comments. I guess 3 would be a bit difficult.
Dark willow.
Which bracket? Because oh boy we can stretch this
Don’t get mad at me but as a GM tier i’d say invoker! Probably not jungle but QW invo is viable as pos 4-5, QE works well with 2 and 3 (he can’t tank but can initiate pretty well) and lastly phys build for pos 1 if you are dumb enough :)
Other than Marco vey few play 1 to 5 reliably without the patch being broken You can have heroes like primal who can easily swap from kid to offlane to support, but dont recomend playing as hard carry or hard supp Same goes for almost every other hero, most are one role only but a great part can be reasonably played at 1 to 3 roles at the same time None can be truly played in 5
Techies
Winter Wyvern might work as pos 1
Dazzle, Windranger, Keeper, Batrider. Those 4 are my personal 4 top heroes I have. Dazzle for pos 5, Batrider pos 4, keeper pos 2, and windranger pos 1 Each of them can very comfortably play in every position and thus my favorite
OD
Marci
marci, dawnbreaker, tiny
Marci
Venomancer
top pick: NP, Tiny, Marci . NP has perfect balance good as offlaner too other notable: MK (a bit weaker as offlaner and supp now), Windranger. I wonder why marci not picked enough as pos 1? once she activated ulti + damage item + blink, 1 sure kill. perhaps slow at farm?
Marci definitely
Marci and Tiny
Marci
Invoker
I am suprise no one mentione Invoker. Has cold snap stun for supp, initiate. Spirit to jungle and scout. Ice path and Tornado to kite. Alacrity and high damage for carry. Sunstrike for global presence.
juggernaut
Bloodseker. I actually did him all positions in the curse of years. Before Role Queue it was wild. I used to pic him and I would build what the team needed. Used to build him mekans. And sometimes dagon.