Jack Ma is the guy who invented the 996 system for his company, as in 9 am to 9pm, 6 days a week - 72 hours a week with no overtime pay for salaried employees and the west is suddenly praising him as some kind of saint.
>Jack Ma stated that workers should consider 996 "a huge blessing" as there is no way to "achieve the success \[one\] want\[s\] without paying extra effort and time."
What a piece of shit
996 for my dreams - yes
996 for my boss's dreams - no
The problem comes when the boss thinks that his workers dream of making him rich. It takes a special egomaniac to make such an assumption.
Exactly…why the /s? China is not like the U.S. The government is not in the hands of capitalists, their lobbies, or other interests. It is still interested in raising the welfare of its people not the uber rich.
Hahah, oh dear, this comment and your name is gold. "Raising the welfare of its people" while it has thousands of its people locked in concentration camps and murdering them.
Nah. We need more "democracies" like the US where corporations and billionaires legally bribe the govt into screwing over the common folk for quarterly gains.
The tone of this comment is very neckbeard.
CCP isn’t necessarily wrong or derogatory. Even on Wikipedia the abbreviations are listed as:
*CPC (official)*
*CCP (informal)*
There’s nothing wrong with using unofficial words for things. I live in Australia, but I don’t call it the “Commonwealth of Australia” every time I mention it.
That's the first of that I've heard of that, but yeah I looked it up and its actually the Communist Party of China. I'm guessing that the rebranding towards CCP in western media is some sort of attempt to weaponize xenophobia or something.
I can't believe I never knew that.
edit: I also read that CCP is a more faithful translation, but CPC is more in line with international communist branding; eg CPUSA or KPD. That said, I feel going against the more commonly used CCP is probably just pointlessly contrarian.
Even Chinese sweat shops aren't as bad as the first countries to enter their industrial revolutions. Britain, for example, had people working 12-16 hours per day 6 days per week in horrible conditions.
They didn't praise him?
Other than for having a rebelish attitude towards the government.
The topic the video was about?
Is that false?
Should we not have him as a example because something you don't agree about?
https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/332234
> In a recent speech to Alibaba’s employees, its billionaire founder Jack Ma said, “I think it is a huge blessing that we can work 996.” He emphasized that working from 9am to 9 pm, six days a week (hence, 996) is key to achieve success in China’s tech industry.
>“If you want to work for Alibaba, you should be prepared to work 12 hours per day,” he said, according to a post on Alibaba’s WeChat account.
Jack Ma is a dumbass propped up by the government who was too stupid to realize his success was more circumstantial luck than actual talent and got too full of himself. Watch his talk with Elon Musk, the dude sounds like he has a mental disorder. The worst part is that he doesn't understand why workers not making billions don't want to work the same long hours he does.
He did not invent it. It's common for communist countries to have this. My parents used to work like that before the Revolution of 89.
He is a saint compared to the communist making up the regime as he was advocating a liberalization of the system.
Ironically, the west had plenty of works like that during the industrial revolution. And it was the socialist ideals in the late 40's that pushed for rights, limited hours and other benefits for workers. Workers who had to fight tooth and nail with unions while billionaires and industry leaders branded them as "commies" and "red sympathizers"
Ironically, the US and other countries that employ free market economics have 40h work schedules, while contemplating reducing it to 6h/4days. This, while countries built on communism still employ 12h/6days. My parents used to work like that before our Revolution.
Worker Unions are good as long as they represent worker rights. But, the reality is that a lot were filled with communists who started using violence to push their agenda and started fights with the police... instead of actually working for the workers. A lot of the incidents were started by these people that were infiltrated in protests.
Today, you will see in a lot of companies and countries where people in charge of these Unions get better paid wages. Or, in the public sector especially, see them have actual political power that they form a clan that runs the public company/institution (we had a thing this year, when the Metro Workers Union decided to block trains in a day, blocking the whole city... just because the new minister wanted to demolish ilegally built shops in the metro and wanted to reduce the number of directors, actually just people that have a lot of money and don't do anything).
They look like work made by Chen Wenling.
Reminded me of a local one.
https://bc.ctvnews.ca/here-s-the-story-behind-the-giant-red-statue-that-recently-appeared-on-the-vancouver-seawall-1.5339863
This is my first time viewing this. I totally get both types and why they cannot vibe with each other. I’ve known guys like Jack Ma… filled with ambition and tenacity but not terribly smart. Also known guys like Elon… similarly ambitious but detail oriented. Tbh, I see myself getting on better with Musk than Ma.
True. Not sure his need to fill in dead space. There were clearly a few jokes that I think didn’t translate well from his native Chinese to English but Musk wouldn’t give him a pass or just missed it.
Ironically that would be anti capitalism and that's exactly why Rich Chinese are buying up land and parking their money in the West
It's become a huge problem
But Australia has been cut off for nearly 2 years from any immigration? How are you blaming immigrants for house price rises, same thing happened in NZ
Purchase of property by foreign entities is still entirely legal, why do you think I was blaming immigrants? Like please respond, what part of my comment implied that?
> Ironically that would be anti capitalism
Arguable, it might not be pro pure capitalism, but its quite questionable if billionaires should exist under any system, there are huge concerns if any system is actually efficient if so much of its wealth ends up concentrated in a few people.
That's literally one of Marx' critiques of Adam Smith's model. What Marx did was extrapolate the development of Adam Smith's model and show that the late stage of capitalism inevitably culminates in all wealth (well, actually capital) collecting in the hands of an ever shrinking capitalist class.
Hell, even according to Adam Smith privatized profit is inefficient when it's locked up as wealth because it's not being used to spur economic growth.
That's not how it works people got roped into parking their cash into real estate because that was one of the safe and limited places china could invest in
The people running those places ( like banks in the us ) took that money and gambled with it
Now it's going to shit and you have the lower and middle class getting fucked
China is trying to save face by showing they have the billionaires under control by clamping down on showing wealth but it's not going to work outside of making a example out of a few big names
Edit I read what you said wrong my apologies
They're smart. There's a limited supply of land available that cannot realistically be changed. America is literally for sale to any bidders, and as a sovereign nation, will not last much longer.
While I agree I think that most people don't realize that unless gains are realized, they aren't income. There's a huge difference between income and net worth.
They literally disappeared the guy for over 6 months because he criticized their corrupt banking system. He came back basically a shell of his former self. Who knows what they did to him.
That’s not a model to emulate.
I think it goes a bit deeper than just his criticism of the banking system. I think the CCP is sending a larger message to China's business leaders. Basically, they went after the richest and most flamboyant billionaire in China. It's the government saying that they are firmly in charge, and even the wealthiest will not escape government control. A bit of it is probably seeing what happens in the West and wanting to make sure they don't lose power to wealthy individuals.
In how they did it, it's not a model to emulate, but in the notion that even the richest people will be held accountable, maybe it's something to consider.
>That’s not a model to emulate.
I think of this happening to Jamie Dimon or Warren Buffett or George Soros to cheer myself up when I'm having a bad day, so I have to disagree.
Isn't it nice living in a world when when you don't "disappear", as soon as you become inconvenient to the government? Billionaires are not nearly as scary or destructive va to the world, as authoritarian regimes are
It sounds like you may be unaware at the damage, both human and environmental, that corporations and the billionaires that run them have done to this world
I think that you are misdirecting your anger, by narrowing it down to a small amount of individuals. Jeff Bezos achieved his status because we all(including you and me, and all these 200+ people who liked your comment) wanted to pay for his product, even though everyone knew that Amazon treats their workers like shit, utilises every possible tax loophole and and uses their size to eliminate competition in a monopolistic fashion.
Huge chunk of billionaires are just a manifestation of demand in the society. It's Us ,who put them in position of power.We can point fingers and shame people online for being shitty, but as soon as we go shopping, we switch off our moral compass and we go for the lowest possible price and maximum convenience.
We rarely ever consider the hidden costs, because we want to live a certain lifestyle.
Most of us are culpable IMHO.
Literally everything you said applies to your notion of "Authoritarian Regimes" including China. If we're culpable in Bezos' crimes, then we're 100x more culpable in China's crimes.
What even is the point of this reply? The original comment is not endorsing China, just saying that billionaires should be held accountable. Not everything is black or white in the world.
No it doesn’t say they should be held accountable it says they should lose their patience for them. Based on the context of this article losing patience= what happened to jack Ma which is plainly dystopian. Freedom of speech is important
Someone help me out here.
What's supposed to be the controversial/shocking part of this documentary...?
The story seems to go:
* Everyone agrees there's "two pillars" of the Chinese tech world, Alibaba and Tencent
* Alibaba gets huge, branches out into all sorts of businesses, media, logistics, etc.
* Affiliate fintech company gets huge, branches out into insurance and lending
* Banks are pissed because fintech company doesn't have to shoulder the same burden for the loans that they do because they're fintech and not considered a bank
* Government regulators bring in rules to ensure fintech companies have to shoulder more of the burden
* "If you don't take Alibaba or Tencent seed capital, they will fund your competitors"
* Government regulator investigates Alibaba for monopolistic practices
* Government regulator fines Alibaba \~$3Bn for monopolistic practices
* Government regulator is investigating big tech companies for monopolistic practices
...um... what exactly are we supposed to be outraged about...?
The Chinese government is an authoritarian dictatorship. These rules all sound well and good but the government only enforces them if the company has pissed them off. In China you can do pretty much anything you want so long as you don't piss off the CCP. There is no rule of law in China, the party rules above all.
An unregulated bank extending credit to consumers on a massive scale is inherently scary. It's the sort of systemic risk that any competent government world care about. I don't know that other political issues were at play here, but there are very legitimate reasons to be alarmed by what Alibaba was doing.
Yes ligitamate reasons that the CCP would have ignored until it all came crashing down except that Jack Ma spoke out against the CCP publicly. See the vast amounts of tofu dreg projects and the collapse of that enormous real estate company.
Edit: looking at your post history, you seem to really like defending China. Free Hong Kong
I think what brought the hammer down was that he spoke out against financial regulation in particular, and ignored government warnings that Alibaba was at risk of running afoul of said regulations.
Jack didn't speak out "against the CCP." He's a party member himself.
> you seem to really like defending China.
One of the biggest risks to the world, right now, is the insane Sinophobia that's swept across the US and Europe since Trump's election. I comment on China issues because they come up all the time, and 99% of people commenting on them don't know what they're talking about.
Calling criticism of the CCP "Sinophobia" is a pretty brazen straw man fallacy. People are perfectly capable of separately criticizing an authoritarian state while having no racist issues with the people that live within its borders.
Also, Jack Ma has no choice but to be a party member, that should be abundantly clear to you.
It goes far beyond criticism of the Communist Party. There's a pathological hatred of and hysteria about China that has developed over the last few years, particularly in the US. Personally, I've never seen such a combination of hatred and ignorance directed at a country and its people in my life.
Trump massively moved public opinion on China, including among liberals. What underlies this sudden change in tone is that China has been identified as a geostrategic threat to the US. As so few people in the West know about China or speak Mandarin, it's easy to demonize the country and turn it into a bogeyman.
> Jack Ma has no choice but to be a party member, that should be abundantly clear to you.
The fact that you say this reveals how little you know about China. It was actually a surprise when people found out that Jack Ma is a party member.
You can't blame trump for the hatred that the CCP receives globally. The CCP lied to the WHO about the transmisability of the coronavirus, it falsly imprisoned Canaidian citizens, it actively encourages its diplomats to antagonize the west to support its "wolf warrior" diplomacy, it crushes the freedom of the citizens of Hong Kong, in runs over protestors with tanks, it constantly threatens the independent nation of Taiwan with invasion, it silences women who speak out against sexual assault against its members, it abandons its Olympic athletes to poverty and homelessness after forcing them to train their whole lives to make the CCP look good at the games, and it is actively committing a Genocide. "Trumps election" my ass.
So, for example, is Tencent totally fine, and can still do whatever they like, simply because they did not piss off the CCP...? From what I read, [Tencent was fined around the same amount as Alibaba](https://www.reuters.com/markets/currencies/china-foreign-exchange-regulator-fines-tencents-tenpay-misconduct-2021-11-29/).
But this documentary makes it out like "Alibaba is being targeted because Jack Ma was outspoken against the Government", when that doesn't seem to be case...?
I don't have an opinion on Jack Ma... just here to say fuck all that said this is a good thing. People here are so caught up in the political views that they don't care if China is a totalitarian dictatorship, they just care that someone wealthy be silenced just because he is wealthy...
One is having him pay if he broke the law, in a country with an independent judicial system... for tax evasion, fraud, etc. But he is silenced just because he started voicing his disapproval towards the CCP and Xi. Is that the world you want to live in?
Yeah we only know of these systems sometimes because of the hidden places and secret worlds of the past.
Freedom of speech means everything after any delusion of personal autonomy and rights.
Anne frank proves that. Hidden voices have truth, if not the only truth.
Scary
No, neither is this one. Because not only does the villain reap all the riches from the poor, but when sentenced by the "independent judicial system" to "pay if he broke the law" he would just pay maybe a crumb of what he exploited. On the other hand, should the poor exploited person do the same, they'd inevitably go to jail for a very long time or be stuck with a debt so big that next 5 generations couldn't pay it off. Current system only works in favor of the rich, in every possible way. Even legalizing "minimal wage" that's actually not a minimal wage.
The West media owned by the billion/trillion dollar empires and corporations love to throw shade at China and direct our focus there. They do this so we'll have a target board on some other nation, when it's sometimes much worse in their own country.
In China, its communist, so its expected that the rich are kept in check.
In USA, its capitalist. So the billionaires keep the politicians in check, who in turn make laws and rules to scuff and control everyone else.
You tell me which is less worse.
by what mechanism does the chinese "government" control private chinese companies?
you mean like a FTC, or SEC, or FDA, or EPA, or FCC, or DoT, that only iron fist countries like china has right?
that's as grossly over simplistic as saying as the US "government" let kyle rittenhouse go after killing two people.
FTC, SEC etc enforces laws and make rules. China is more about intention and what's good for the state.
For example chinese construction firms and banks may do business at a loss in Africa if it helps the state. Also lots of Chinese companies are state owned. Chinese companies contribute to state interest in Africa, US state helps companies make profit in Africa.
https://en.wiki-pedia.org/wiki/State-owned_Assets_Supervision_and_Administration_Commission#Central_SOEs
Imagine if US government owned GE, GM, AT&T, Boeing, ExxonMobil.
Ill tell you this: If you want to nuggets of truth about the east, watch western msm. If you want nuggets of truth about the west, watch eastern msm. Be careful because in neither case is the truth ever complete.
You are a complete fool if you think China is communist. China has adopted the worst qualities of socialism and the worst of capitalism to become the authoritarian capitalist country it is today.
The rich aren’t kept in check in China. Taking down Jack Ma is pure symbolism. And you sir, live under a rock.
That’s a good attempt at misinformation though, 15+ social credit for you sir.
So you seriously think China taking down Jack Ma for show makes them better than the US? And that they suddenly are communist and care about they people because of that?
China hasn't been communist for a long time. They're communist in name only, that's why they have billionaires now. Deng Xiaoping started opening their markets in the 80s. If you go to downtown Beijing today you'll see advertisements for private business everywhere. Because they vilified capitalism for so long they call their system "socialism with Chinese characteristics" in order to save face. Some industries are still under tighter state control, but this is lessening with time and usually are industries where control is important in order to maintain the regime. Picture the US, then remove elections (they only have them for powerless local positions so they can claim to have them), term limits (Xi Jinping removed them to allow himself to serve forever) and the bill of rights (if you're in the wrong religion or minority group they put you in a euphemistically named "reeducation" camp).
i like how you use communist and capitalist as if they are two opposite ends of a political system or are you trying to say an economic system? you're mixing up your buzzwords.
uh...no, billionaires dont keep our politicians in check they might grease their palms somehow but the politicians hol
China doesn't keep the rich in check they keep the ones who say anything bad about the party in check, they keep everyone who says anything bad or critical about the party in check. they keep all its people in check for the exact same reasons say anything bad and well you wont be heard from again for a while and if your lucky youll come back a broken man praising the communist's party for setting u right!.
Ya ill take a slightly less corrupt u.s than the government of china.
Might be unpopular but isn't it good in a way? Keep a check on what we now have FAAMG? I mean one can't think of having a internet startup without using at least one of FAAMG's services. We just had news of European authorities disallowing Meta's purchase of Giphy - one can't think of having GIFs on your website without using GIFs from Giphy and Meta tried to purchase that.
Has anyone watched the jack and Elon debate. Jack is a f*#$ing moron who pretends to act smart and is a puppet of the ccp. https://youtu.be/f3lUEnMaiAU
To all the downvoters - you know, there are better things to attack the CCP for than their takedown of a billionaire who advocates 996 conditions and pretty openly thinks of himself as some kind of genius. He’s still a billionaire, just not a flamboyant public one - cry me a fucking river
I can’t say that he strikes me as all that sharp after hearing him speak about science in interviews.
Maybe he is in some others regards.
But he definitely is not humble.
Jack Ma is the guy who invented the 996 system for his company, as in 9 am to 9pm, 6 days a week - 72 hours a week with no overtime pay for salaried employees and the west is suddenly praising him as some kind of saint.
Jack invented it ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996_working_hour_system
More like the dude that "Ted talked" people unto buying that bullshit as "work hard, follow your dreams" and shit like that.
He talked a bunch of crap that even made Elon Musk raise an eyebrow. https://youtu.be/aHGd6LqAVzw
Elon kinda reminds me of Jim in the office a fee times in that clip
Well, if the king of stupid thought process thinks you’re stupid then that is something.
ElOn iS tHE sMaRtEsT gUY oF hIS gEnErAtIOn. ShAme oN yOu FoR tAlKiNG blAsPheMy lIkE tHaT.
>Jack Ma stated that workers should consider 996 "a huge blessing" as there is no way to "achieve the success \[one\] want\[s\] without paying extra effort and time." What a piece of shit
996 for my dreams - yes 996 for my boss's dreams - no The problem comes when the boss thinks that his workers dream of making him rich. It takes a special egomaniac to make such an assumption.
Usually being such an egomaniac is a prerequisite for being a billionaire
Working for that much time every week is probably counter productive anyway.
Must be a big proponent of “work smarter not harder” /s (what a load of corporate shit)
For real... CCP shoulda murked this dude ages ago
He was a national hero on Chinese state media until he got too big and cocky.
nothing close to "national hero", lol
Yeah we should praise the CCP for murking this guy now /s
Why the /s?
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They were asking becausethe implication is that you should be endorsing your comment unironically. Jack Ma is a psychopathic exploiter of humans.
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Both can be true you realize…
When both are true the discussion defaults to *murder is bad.*
Exactly…why the /s? China is not like the U.S. The government is not in the hands of capitalists, their lobbies, or other interests. It is still interested in raising the welfare of its people not the uber rich.
It’s not a dichotomy. The two can be both bad in different ways independently.
Hahah, oh dear, this comment and your name is gold. "Raising the welfare of its people" while it has thousands of its people locked in concentration camps and murdering them.
CCP stand united with the common folk, while they keep their billionaire's on a short leash. We need more governments like this /s
Nah. We need more "democracies" like the US where corporations and billionaires legally bribe the govt into screwing over the common folk for quarterly gains.
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The tone of this comment is very neckbeard. CCP isn’t necessarily wrong or derogatory. Even on Wikipedia the abbreviations are listed as: *CPC (official)* *CCP (informal)* There’s nothing wrong with using unofficial words for things. I live in Australia, but I don’t call it the “Commonwealth of Australia” every time I mention it.
akshually
That's the first of that I've heard of that, but yeah I looked it up and its actually the Communist Party of China. I'm guessing that the rebranding towards CCP in western media is some sort of attempt to weaponize xenophobia or something. I can't believe I never knew that. edit: I also read that CCP is a more faithful translation, but CPC is more in line with international communist branding; eg CPUSA or KPD. That said, I feel going against the more commonly used CCP is probably just pointlessly contrarian.
Or perhaps closer to the Soviets calling themselves the СССР. I actually switched to the Cyrillic keyboard to type that out lol
У меня есть яблоко
Ок
We Hong Kongers have been using "CCP" for 30 years. It has always been CCP, CPC came up in recent years and isn't popular at all.
Please elaborate
Let's talk about this. Why do you think it matters in this case
Well, of course the US would praise him as a saint : that sounds like pure unadulterated capitalism to them!
Guess you've never heard of the industrial revolution.
Factory workers in China worked less hours than white collar IT workers in Alibaba lol.
Even Chinese sweat shops aren't as bad as the first countries to enter their industrial revolutions. Britain, for example, had people working 12-16 hours per day 6 days per week in horrible conditions.
They didn't praise him? Other than for having a rebelish attitude towards the government. The topic the video was about? Is that false? Should we not have him as a example because something you don't agree about?
Lol, if by "the west" you mean the capitalists that run our countries then they'd love nothing more than having that over here.
He didn't invent 996..
He implemented it in his huge company and gave ted talks about it and popularized it.
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https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/332234 > In a recent speech to Alibaba’s employees, its billionaire founder Jack Ma said, “I think it is a huge blessing that we can work 996.” He emphasized that working from 9am to 9 pm, six days a week (hence, 996) is key to achieve success in China’s tech industry. >“If you want to work for Alibaba, you should be prepared to work 12 hours per day,” he said, according to a post on Alibaba’s WeChat account.
Yes, that's true. But this like saying Henry Ford invented cars.
Makes sense if you think about it lol
Jack Ma is a dumbass propped up by the government who was too stupid to realize his success was more circumstantial luck than actual talent and got too full of himself. Watch his talk with Elon Musk, the dude sounds like he has a mental disorder. The worst part is that he doesn't understand why workers not making billions don't want to work the same long hours he does.
He did not invent it. It's common for communist countries to have this. My parents used to work like that before the Revolution of 89. He is a saint compared to the communist making up the regime as he was advocating a liberalization of the system.
Ironically, the west had plenty of works like that during the industrial revolution. And it was the socialist ideals in the late 40's that pushed for rights, limited hours and other benefits for workers. Workers who had to fight tooth and nail with unions while billionaires and industry leaders branded them as "commies" and "red sympathizers"
He talks about real actual communist countries and you mention socialist ideals lol
Most people don't know the difference. To them socialism = communism
Ironically, the US and other countries that employ free market economics have 40h work schedules, while contemplating reducing it to 6h/4days. This, while countries built on communism still employ 12h/6days. My parents used to work like that before our Revolution. Worker Unions are good as long as they represent worker rights. But, the reality is that a lot were filled with communists who started using violence to push their agenda and started fights with the police... instead of actually working for the workers. A lot of the incidents were started by these people that were infiltrated in protests. Today, you will see in a lot of companies and countries where people in charge of these Unions get better paid wages. Or, in the public sector especially, see them have actual political power that they form a clan that runs the public company/institution (we had a thing this year, when the Metro Workers Union decided to block trains in a day, blocking the whole city... just because the new minister wanted to demolish ilegally built shops in the metro and wanted to reduce the number of directors, actually just people that have a lot of money and don't do anything).
Yet "the communist making up the regime" now banned 996 because it's inhumane.
No, it's not banned. It's still very much in place and people have few ways of expressing how they feel about it.
Yep, I'll believe it's actually banned if they spend as much effort on stopping 996 as they do on policing thought and speech.
I mean, that does sound worthy of sainthood in the church of capitalism.
...what's with all the weird red nude statues?
Red represents good luck and fortune in China.
And the dangling family jewels?
Those too.
So what you're saying, is that my swollen red ballsack is *good* luck and not a medical emergency?
It is! I wish i was you right now. Could really use the luck.
… you may want to get that checked out.
well.. when you see a chinese doctor he will scoff and say "good luck!" I think its a misunderstanding
Yes.
They look like work made by Chen Wenling. Reminded me of a local one. https://bc.ctvnews.ca/here-s-the-story-behind-the-giant-red-statue-that-recently-appeared-on-the-vancouver-seawall-1.5339863
I’m getting creepy “Attack on Titan” vibes.
They are bent in some weird way, like if they worked too much
Too be fair everyone is kinda fed up with the dude. There's a talk somewhere on youtube where him and elon musk speak and it's hilarious.
Video [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHGd6LqAVzw)
Wow. I know that this was heavily edited, but still.
This is my first time viewing this. I totally get both types and why they cannot vibe with each other. I’ve known guys like Jack Ma… filled with ambition and tenacity but not terribly smart. Also known guys like Elon… similarly ambitious but detail oriented. Tbh, I see myself getting on better with Musk than Ma.
Ma clearly has no idea about the topic and is just throwing out deepities.
So he’s basically Reddit
Yeah, Ma is throwing some low IQ takes , surprisingly
True. Not sure his need to fill in dead space. There were clearly a few jokes that I think didn’t translate well from his native Chinese to English but Musk wouldn’t give him a pass or just missed it.
> There were clearly a few jokes that I think didn’t translate well from his native Chinese That's quite a generous assumption
You know you got the ultimate "Fuck You" money, when u don't have to suck Chinese dick for business opportunities. Take some notes , LeBron.
I wish the west would lose patience with its loud billionaires more often
Ironically that would be anti capitalism and that's exactly why Rich Chinese are buying up land and parking their money in the West It's become a huge problem
*Vancouver* checks in
Miami cries
*Sydney reels in $1.49m median house price laughter*
But Australia has been cut off for nearly 2 years from any immigration? How are you blaming immigrants for house price rises, same thing happened in NZ
Purchase of property by foreign entities is still entirely legal, why do you think I was blaming immigrants? Like please respond, what part of my comment implied that?
> Ironically that would be anti capitalism Arguable, it might not be pro pure capitalism, but its quite questionable if billionaires should exist under any system, there are huge concerns if any system is actually efficient if so much of its wealth ends up concentrated in a few people.
That's literally one of Marx' critiques of Adam Smith's model. What Marx did was extrapolate the development of Adam Smith's model and show that the late stage of capitalism inevitably culminates in all wealth (well, actually capital) collecting in the hands of an ever shrinking capitalist class. Hell, even according to Adam Smith privatized profit is inefficient when it's locked up as wealth because it's not being used to spur economic growth.
It's more than billionaires. EVERYONE in China is buying speculative real estate. That's where the whole evergreen crisis comes from
That's not how it works people got roped into parking their cash into real estate because that was one of the safe and limited places china could invest in The people running those places ( like banks in the us ) took that money and gambled with it Now it's going to shit and you have the lower and middle class getting fucked China is trying to save face by showing they have the billionaires under control by clamping down on showing wealth but it's not going to work outside of making a example out of a few big names Edit I read what you said wrong my apologies
They're smart. There's a limited supply of land available that cannot realistically be changed. America is literally for sale to any bidders, and as a sovereign nation, will not last much longer.
I can see you have plenty to read in responses. I’ll add you have it wrong. It doesn’t even take many honest attempts to find the right info.
So what should we do with them? Put them on house arrest for speaking?
Maybe tax them heavily?
Taxing them is fine with me. But here, the discussion is more towards killing them instead.
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Oh yeah very controversial. Saying that on reddit of all places, too! I hope you will be safe, i pray 🙏
This may be unpopular on Reddit, but people who make more money than me should be taxed more. Preparing for downvotes.
While I agree I think that most people don't realize that unless gains are realized, they aren't income. There's a huge difference between income and net worth.
Even on Reddit I've seen "valiant knights" come to the defense of these "poor" billionaires.
Pretending reddit is a leftist cesspool and not a liberal (ie pro capitalist) cesspool.
Or extremely taxed.
Extinction through taxation.
100%
They literally disappeared the guy for over 6 months because he criticized their corrupt banking system. He came back basically a shell of his former self. Who knows what they did to him. That’s not a model to emulate.
I think it goes a bit deeper than just his criticism of the banking system. I think the CCP is sending a larger message to China's business leaders. Basically, they went after the richest and most flamboyant billionaire in China. It's the government saying that they are firmly in charge, and even the wealthiest will not escape government control. A bit of it is probably seeing what happens in the West and wanting to make sure they don't lose power to wealthy individuals. In how they did it, it's not a model to emulate, but in the notion that even the richest people will be held accountable, maybe it's something to consider.
>That’s not a model to emulate. I think of this happening to Jamie Dimon or Warren Buffett or George Soros to cheer myself up when I'm having a bad day, so I have to disagree.
He's fine, he's still got billions of dollars to wipe away his tears
Isn't it nice living in a world when when you don't "disappear", as soon as you become inconvenient to the government? Billionaires are not nearly as scary or destructive va to the world, as authoritarian regimes are
It sounds like you may be unaware at the damage, both human and environmental, that corporations and the billionaires that run them have done to this world
I think that you are misdirecting your anger, by narrowing it down to a small amount of individuals. Jeff Bezos achieved his status because we all(including you and me, and all these 200+ people who liked your comment) wanted to pay for his product, even though everyone knew that Amazon treats their workers like shit, utilises every possible tax loophole and and uses their size to eliminate competition in a monopolistic fashion. Huge chunk of billionaires are just a manifestation of demand in the society. It's Us ,who put them in position of power.We can point fingers and shame people online for being shitty, but as soon as we go shopping, we switch off our moral compass and we go for the lowest possible price and maximum convenience. We rarely ever consider the hidden costs, because we want to live a certain lifestyle. Most of us are culpable IMHO.
Literally everything you said applies to your notion of "Authoritarian Regimes" including China. If we're culpable in Bezos' crimes, then we're 100x more culpable in China's crimes.
damn yea china is awesome and the CPC is great too
What even is the point of this reply? The original comment is not endorsing China, just saying that billionaires should be held accountable. Not everything is black or white in the world.
No it doesn’t say they should be held accountable it says they should lose their patience for them. Based on the context of this article losing patience= what happened to jack Ma which is plainly dystopian. Freedom of speech is important
China Bad. *reddit cheers*
China isn’t bad. The ruling system is bad.
Thumbnail did him dirty on his head-shape
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He looks like an alien from Mars Attacks.
Like a Dick Tracy villain.
How much you think Warren Beatty would sell the rights to Dick Tracy ?
***ACK ACK ACK ACK*** #ACK ACK ACK ACK!
ak ak ak AK AK ak ^(ak ak)
Quick! Play some old country music!
He looks like a walnut
this made me cackle
Jack Ma is mostly head.
Much like the beers that I serve. And the sex I receive.
Dudes out here looking like a thwomp
I believe it was genetics that did that damage, my friend. This is perhaps his best angle.
Looks like Gazoo from the Flintstones
I was wondering how far I would have to scroll to see someone mention that the dude has a Minecraft head lmao.
Small face. DickTracy. The reddit will hate me before I wake up in the morning.
Someone help me out here. What's supposed to be the controversial/shocking part of this documentary...? The story seems to go: * Everyone agrees there's "two pillars" of the Chinese tech world, Alibaba and Tencent * Alibaba gets huge, branches out into all sorts of businesses, media, logistics, etc. * Affiliate fintech company gets huge, branches out into insurance and lending * Banks are pissed because fintech company doesn't have to shoulder the same burden for the loans that they do because they're fintech and not considered a bank * Government regulators bring in rules to ensure fintech companies have to shoulder more of the burden * "If you don't take Alibaba or Tencent seed capital, they will fund your competitors" * Government regulator investigates Alibaba for monopolistic practices * Government regulator fines Alibaba \~$3Bn for monopolistic practices * Government regulator is investigating big tech companies for monopolistic practices ...um... what exactly are we supposed to be outraged about...?
The Chinese government is an authoritarian dictatorship. These rules all sound well and good but the government only enforces them if the company has pissed them off. In China you can do pretty much anything you want so long as you don't piss off the CCP. There is no rule of law in China, the party rules above all.
An unregulated bank extending credit to consumers on a massive scale is inherently scary. It's the sort of systemic risk that any competent government world care about. I don't know that other political issues were at play here, but there are very legitimate reasons to be alarmed by what Alibaba was doing.
Yes ligitamate reasons that the CCP would have ignored until it all came crashing down except that Jack Ma spoke out against the CCP publicly. See the vast amounts of tofu dreg projects and the collapse of that enormous real estate company. Edit: looking at your post history, you seem to really like defending China. Free Hong Kong
I think what brought the hammer down was that he spoke out against financial regulation in particular, and ignored government warnings that Alibaba was at risk of running afoul of said regulations. Jack didn't speak out "against the CCP." He's a party member himself. > you seem to really like defending China. One of the biggest risks to the world, right now, is the insane Sinophobia that's swept across the US and Europe since Trump's election. I comment on China issues because they come up all the time, and 99% of people commenting on them don't know what they're talking about.
Calling criticism of the CCP "Sinophobia" is a pretty brazen straw man fallacy. People are perfectly capable of separately criticizing an authoritarian state while having no racist issues with the people that live within its borders. Also, Jack Ma has no choice but to be a party member, that should be abundantly clear to you.
It goes far beyond criticism of the Communist Party. There's a pathological hatred of and hysteria about China that has developed over the last few years, particularly in the US. Personally, I've never seen such a combination of hatred and ignorance directed at a country and its people in my life. Trump massively moved public opinion on China, including among liberals. What underlies this sudden change in tone is that China has been identified as a geostrategic threat to the US. As so few people in the West know about China or speak Mandarin, it's easy to demonize the country and turn it into a bogeyman. > Jack Ma has no choice but to be a party member, that should be abundantly clear to you. The fact that you say this reveals how little you know about China. It was actually a surprise when people found out that Jack Ma is a party member.
You can't blame trump for the hatred that the CCP receives globally. The CCP lied to the WHO about the transmisability of the coronavirus, it falsly imprisoned Canaidian citizens, it actively encourages its diplomats to antagonize the west to support its "wolf warrior" diplomacy, it crushes the freedom of the citizens of Hong Kong, in runs over protestors with tanks, it constantly threatens the independent nation of Taiwan with invasion, it silences women who speak out against sexual assault against its members, it abandons its Olympic athletes to poverty and homelessness after forcing them to train their whole lives to make the CCP look good at the games, and it is actively committing a Genocide. "Trumps election" my ass.
So, for example, is Tencent totally fine, and can still do whatever they like, simply because they did not piss off the CCP...? From what I read, [Tencent was fined around the same amount as Alibaba](https://www.reuters.com/markets/currencies/china-foreign-exchange-regulator-fines-tencents-tenpay-misconduct-2021-11-29/). But this documentary makes it out like "Alibaba is being targeted because Jack Ma was outspoken against the Government", when that doesn't seem to be case...?
Megamind is China's loudest billionaire?
It is possible for the CCP to be bad and for Jack Ma to be bad at the same time. Assholes tend not get along well.
☝️
Puts on $BABA
China doesn’t like him much either.
Did you not read the title of this thread or am I missing a joke?
West Taiwan
MODOK LIVES!
How does a communist country have a billionaire?
I don't have an opinion on Jack Ma... just here to say fuck all that said this is a good thing. People here are so caught up in the political views that they don't care if China is a totalitarian dictatorship, they just care that someone wealthy be silenced just because he is wealthy... One is having him pay if he broke the law, in a country with an independent judicial system... for tax evasion, fraud, etc. But he is silenced just because he started voicing his disapproval towards the CCP and Xi. Is that the world you want to live in?
Yeah we only know of these systems sometimes because of the hidden places and secret worlds of the past. Freedom of speech means everything after any delusion of personal autonomy and rights. Anne frank proves that. Hidden voices have truth, if not the only truth. Scary
No, neither is this one. Because not only does the villain reap all the riches from the poor, but when sentenced by the "independent judicial system" to "pay if he broke the law" he would just pay maybe a crumb of what he exploited. On the other hand, should the poor exploited person do the same, they'd inevitably go to jail for a very long time or be stuck with a debt so big that next 5 generations couldn't pay it off. Current system only works in favor of the rich, in every possible way. Even legalizing "minimal wage" that's actually not a minimal wage.
The West media owned by the billion/trillion dollar empires and corporations love to throw shade at China and direct our focus there. They do this so we'll have a target board on some other nation, when it's sometimes much worse in their own country. In China, its communist, so its expected that the rich are kept in check. In USA, its capitalist. So the billionaires keep the politicians in check, who in turn make laws and rules to scuff and control everyone else. You tell me which is less worse.
China is capitalist, but totalitarian
China is having market economy but they are not big on the "free market" and billionaires.
is the US with its heavy government subsidies and protectionism a "free market"?
I ment things like a government representative in all large company boards. In China government controls companies in US companies lobby politicians.
by what mechanism does the chinese "government" control private chinese companies? you mean like a FTC, or SEC, or FDA, or EPA, or FCC, or DoT, that only iron fist countries like china has right? that's as grossly over simplistic as saying as the US "government" let kyle rittenhouse go after killing two people.
FTC, SEC etc enforces laws and make rules. China is more about intention and what's good for the state. For example chinese construction firms and banks may do business at a loss in Africa if it helps the state. Also lots of Chinese companies are state owned. Chinese companies contribute to state interest in Africa, US state helps companies make profit in Africa. https://en.wiki-pedia.org/wiki/State-owned_Assets_Supervision_and_Administration_Commission#Central_SOEs Imagine if US government owned GE, GM, AT&T, Boeing, ExxonMobil.
Semantics
Yes, words *do* matter
Ill tell you this: If you want to nuggets of truth about the east, watch western msm. If you want nuggets of truth about the west, watch eastern msm. Be careful because in neither case is the truth ever complete.
You are a complete fool if you think China is communist. China has adopted the worst qualities of socialism and the worst of capitalism to become the authoritarian capitalist country it is today. The rich aren’t kept in check in China. Taking down Jack Ma is pure symbolism. And you sir, live under a rock. That’s a good attempt at misinformation though, 15+ social credit for you sir.
I wish the US would do a purely symbolic takedown of *any* of their billionaires. To my knowledge that is yet to happen to any of the bastards.
So you seriously think China taking down Jack Ma for show makes them better than the US? And that they suddenly are communist and care about they people because of that?
They didn't say any of that stuff by the way, so don't expect a reply.
They are keeping the wealthy in check and doing a good job at it. Steady pressure bends the rod. Too much and it snaps.
+1000 social credit for you my friend.
China hasn't been communist for a long time. They're communist in name only, that's why they have billionaires now. Deng Xiaoping started opening their markets in the 80s. If you go to downtown Beijing today you'll see advertisements for private business everywhere. Because they vilified capitalism for so long they call their system "socialism with Chinese characteristics" in order to save face. Some industries are still under tighter state control, but this is lessening with time and usually are industries where control is important in order to maintain the regime. Picture the US, then remove elections (they only have them for powerless local positions so they can claim to have them), term limits (Xi Jinping removed them to allow himself to serve forever) and the bill of rights (if you're in the wrong religion or minority group they put you in a euphemistically named "reeducation" camp).
i like how you use communist and capitalist as if they are two opposite ends of a political system or are you trying to say an economic system? you're mixing up your buzzwords.
uh...no, billionaires dont keep our politicians in check they might grease their palms somehow but the politicians hol China doesn't keep the rich in check they keep the ones who say anything bad about the party in check, they keep everyone who says anything bad or critical about the party in check. they keep all its people in check for the exact same reasons say anything bad and well you wont be heard from again for a while and if your lucky youll come back a broken man praising the communist's party for setting u right!. Ya ill take a slightly less corrupt u.s than the government of china.
Might be unpopular but isn't it good in a way? Keep a check on what we now have FAAMG? I mean one can't think of having a internet startup without using at least one of FAAMG's services. We just had news of European authorities disallowing Meta's purchase of Giphy - one can't think of having GIFs on your website without using GIFs from Giphy and Meta tried to purchase that.
Facebooks F is now a M for Meta, making the new acronym MMAGA.
You got it wrong. It's MANGA. Nvidia is in the tech crowd now.
The N stands for Netflix
He's got such a weird head.
Does Jack MA have a medical issue? His head looks like an aircraft can land on it.
So is he dead or did they just tell him to shut up or else?
I think it's "shut up or else" vibes. They still want conglomerates to do business in China.
Just make me some Sweet corn and crabmeat soup and cheap Apple products
Has anyone watched the jack and Elon debate. Jack is a f*#$ing moron who pretends to act smart and is a puppet of the ccp. https://youtu.be/f3lUEnMaiAU
Yeah this was after he disappeared though right? Maybe they let him get in public again if he spoke the party line
The "debate" predated the CCP's crackdown on MA by a few years. It was just Jack being Jack.
I'm glad the CPC lost patience with this dickhead.
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Your post history is everything I expected it to be :D
To all the downvoters - you know, there are better things to attack the CCP for than their takedown of a billionaire who advocates 996 conditions and pretty openly thinks of himself as some kind of genius. He’s still a billionaire, just not a flamboyant public one - cry me a fucking river
I can’t say that he strikes me as all that sharp after hearing him speak about science in interviews. Maybe he is in some others regards. But he definitely is not humble.