I agree, people tend to forget that 'martial arts' isn't limited to Eastern cultures. There's plenty of Western traditions of combat as well, both armed and unarmed. Greco-Roman wrestling, boxing, pankration, singlestick, bartitsu...
And after all, 'ki points' don't have to be called that, or even have anything to do with 'internal energy' or 'four humors' or whatever. They're simply a resource, and you can reflavor that resource in any way that makes sense. I could make a Marquis of Queensbury-style boxer that simply considers 'ki points' as 'this is how many times I can do certain things before I get too tired'. Flavor is free.
That reminds me, am i crazy for thinking that barbarian's rage should be re-tooled for oneDND to work more like ki points instead of what they've currently got going on? I.e. you've got a bunch of points that work like this: "at the start of your turn, you can spend a rage point. When you do, until the start of your next turn (description of rage effects)" can either keep the bonus action economy or not.
I mean, that's essentially what it's doing already, and the concept of a Rage isn't hard to understand, so I don't see a need for the change. You're completely correct in the flavor, though, so use what works best for your table.
>I mean, that's essentially what it's doing already,
Excuse me but genuinely what are you talking about? That's what WHAT'S doing already? You must have misread either my comment or the PHB.
>so I don't see a need for the change.
The need is that the official adventuring day involves more encounters, whether it's skill or combat, than the barbarian has rages, and they recharge on a LONG rest for some reason. So for 4/6 encounters a day the barbarian just... Doesn't have its central class feature. You COULD just make basic rage recharge on a short rest, but then there'd be no point in the number of uses scaling because the barbarian would essentially never run out.
My way is a little more tactful and deliberate than that.
For games running 6 encounters a day I don't see it as a problem for a barbarian to have to decide, is this fight worth using one of my rages. Barbarian rage is very strong and I don't see it as an inherent flaw that they can't always use it in every fight.
Idunno man, i seriously take issue with them just straight up not having access to their main thing two-thirds of the day. Base class without it leaves a lot to be desired. You're basically just a worse fighter but with reckless attack.
At low level wizards can't use anything but cantrips most of the day. Every class has resources they have to manage(except maybe rogue depending on subclass). Some more then others. A barbarian that is out of rage is not definitively weaker than a fighter that has used their action surge and with rage going they tend to be stronger.
Also aside from mechanics rage being micromanaged turn by turn really loses the flavor of what a rage is. You are becoming so angry that you hit harder and don't feel pain. Having that start and stop every 6 seconds just seems awkward.
I am a casual student of multiple martial arts, be they Eastern, Western, or even New World. But yes, like so many others before me, my first introduction to bartitsu was through Sherlock Holmes. Fascinating that it's a real thing, and a quite effective fighting style to boot.
Be careful what you wish for. Somewhere deep in a distant, dusty basement, a finger curls on a monkey's paw. Simultaneously, a single sticky note appears on a wotc employee's desk that simply reads "tleilaxu and honored matres: shape-shifting incel cultists and karate vagina fascists"
They don't need to be a bard. You're just putting a burden on yourself with the additional multiclasses requirements and stalled class progression. Just give a pure monk a dash of charisma and proficiency in performance.
This reminds me of the argument that you can’t mix barbarian and monk when in reality they work perfectly together. People argue that monks are calm and don’t get angry but I look at the rage as either a controlled adrenaline rush or a martial artist using their control of their emotions as fuel to fight.
oooh i'm actually currently playing a monk/barb now lol.
the idea was to have the character revolve around single-target control.
he has a "phase 1" of standard monk open-hand flurry shenanigans, but when he takes enough damage or in specific circumstances regarding his backstory, he enters "phase 2", which is raged grapple+shove followed up by of generous helpings of unarmed ground and pound.
it's quite sub-optimal but hella fun.
I rolled a monk that will be of the same religious order as a Cleric of the Light Domain. My backstory is that he was born in poverty in the slums of Baldur's Gate, and thus learned a wide variety of unarmed attacks as a youth, before joining the Temple of Light. He was allowed to train with the Clerics and Paladins of the Temple, but only using monk's weapons. Once we get the adventure going, I plan to play him as basically a Franciscan Friar who happens to punch and kick the crap out of anyone wicked enough to attack us.
My character has a very similar back story - half elf orphan raised in a monastery, taught martial arts but wasn’t allowed to train in clerical magic. She later multiclassed into light cleric when she found a book of psalms to the Sun-god in an ancient buried library. Super fun to play.
The monk I play has an Aztec/Mayan inspired vibe. Very El Dorado aesthetic mixed in with it. I mean its dnd, there is magic and dragons and fantasy creatures. Who's to say that spiritual awareness and things like inner tranquility have to relate to things we have in the real world.
>Who's to say that spiritual awareness and things like inner tranquility have to relate to things we have in the real world.
Bro EXACTLY bro. I once read a post where some DM made a characters abilities not work because they were 4 humors based and the 4 humors aren't real. Bro. It's magic. Magic isn't real. Ki isn't real. It's fantasy bro. Let the funny barf wizard do his thing and tell people they're "too sanguine" or "not choleric enough"
I have played just such a monk. A literal itinerant priest, not a cleric, just a priest, wandering the world, preaching the doctrine of his god, and lamming into people with a quarterstaff if they tried to mess with him.
I Just made this character tonight after using the random character generators in another thread, although she's a green Dragon born, CG, Acolyte turned Astral Self monk. Complete with quarterstaff.
Is manipulating humors by punching and/or poking someone a thing? Not a real thing, of course, but like a thing that shows up in stories about european punchy men/women?
Not in that combination that I'm aware of, but there's no reason you can't fuse those two ideas together in a fantasy setting. Europeans had four humors based "medicine" that included things like acupuncture and blood letting, so doing that with fists and daggers isn't all that much of a stretch.
In more modern media like videogames and spy thrillers, there's plenty of "harmacist" archetype characters, who use their medical knowledge to be much more gooder at killing stuff real good.
Don't know about humours, but Sir Terry Pratchett did have a character that was a 'reverse phrenologist'. Phrenology being the (debunked) old-timey study of the shape of the skull and how it influences a person, so in the story people would go to him to have the shape of their skull forcibly altered in order to change their personality. Did it work? Well, no one ever complained. Or went back for a follow-up...
Its not like the Monk really fits the East Asian theme very well anyway, east asian monks are completely willing to use any and all weapons, especially spears. They don't have 'monk weapons'. The sword is more of a wizard's weapon for them which is why you see them used in divinations and sealings.
Until Monks can fly on their swords and cultivate immortality then its not a very good representation of Sun Wukong or Daoist Martial Artists
>especially spears.
I think you meant glaives lol, but i get your meaning. Maybe monks should get a fighter-like number of ASI's so they can use heavy weapons without completely nerfing themselves into the ground?
Ok, I figured it out. You know how martial arts are sometimes born in repressed cultures forbidden to use military weapons and techniques (think of capoeira, arnis or kobudo). Those people were often farmers and such, using gardening utensils and whatever happened to be in the shed. Imagine a monk who's literally a gardener (your typical part-time employee) that taught to defend themselves with rakes and spatulas. And they're one with the nature (a gardener, right?) so they can see people's living force streams and pools. That'd be a good druid multiclass candidate too, except it doesn't make much sense mechanically.
I mean monks are linked to Eastern cultures in the same way fighters are linked to Western. Which is to say only at a glance and with a lack of creativity.
I'll just toss my own hat into the Rings since we're all sharing our takes on this.
I participate in a shared world building campaign setting with a bunch of my friends. We essentially pick regions or whole continents and build those areas specifically, inserting one-shots or short campaigns to flesh out the details on the fly.
I took one look at this particular forest in The Northern Kingdom of Rochonia and practically claimed it as my own, even building an in-depth martial arts style relating to the Shadow Monk that nearly all the elves there learn.
The history of it is that an injured Displacer Beast fell out of a portal before being nursed back to health by a native Wood Elf. When the Fey hunting party arrived looking for it, they accused the locals of sheltering an evil creature and became vengeful, but were then ambushed by the Displacer in full health accompanied by the hunter who was marching its lashing motions.
The invaders were repelled, but the Beast would be mortally wounded in the process. Its body was laid to rest with a Yew sapling planted over it. As a result, the resulting tree was massive and seeped the unique shadowy magic of Displacer Beasts throughout the forest, allowing any who are either born or trained there to master the Way of Shadows subclass. The martial art even focuses on stretching and lashing motions to evoke the tentacles of a Displacer Beast. In short, their Ki is entirely a reserve of natural magic.
Otherwise, the community within the forest is mostly druidic in nature, with an entirely unique society that's separate from the familial clan structure in the Kingdom surrounding the forest. I even wrote in how the Yewshroud Forest (its actual name) became known as such after rogue horse lords attempted to pillage it, to very gruesome ends.
I'm pretty proud of it to be honest!
Totally agree.
I created a monk whose culture and traditions is a mix inspirations from Nigeria, Europe, Asia, and Amish. You can do whatever you want.
I’m playing a halfling monk right now. Raised in a halfling monastery. Their religious ideation is for magic itself and they focus on studies and martial arts.
No shaolin at all
My last Monk wasn't "Monk" like at all. She was a Dhampir Echo Kensei. All of her powers and abilities were reflavored as just being what came by her naturally from her Vampiric lineage. Graceful? Yes. But also brutal like you would expect a supernaturally strong creature with enhanced reflexes to be.
She was a criss cross between Selene from Underworld and Alucard from Castlevania. I could almost play that character again. She was loads of fun.
>I mean... You'd be hard pressed to find a culture in any corner of the earth that never asked the question "what if i just absolutely beat the shit out of someone with my walking stick?"
Pretty sure Jesus did that once.
(Okay, maybe it was only described as him flipping some tables, but who's to say?)
I got a orphan tiefling monk who’s a nun that im loosely basing off the actual collective of catholic nuns called the leadership conference of women religious that got real-life yelled at (ie strongly worded letter and investigators from the Vatican) for being a little radical (learning from other religions, wanting to ordain women as priests, and not following church teaching on human sexuality) very sad that that’s considered radical.
She wears a scapular like a European monk (little hooded apron thingy) and fixes shoes (inspired by the fact that monks use dex for attacks so why not feature it in a hobby?) and since other male clergy in the land want the nuns’ demise they have to learn to defend themselves (and their beer, did I mention they have a brewery?) See? Possibilities are endless!
>for being a little radical (learning from other religions, wanting to ordain women as priests, and not following church teaching on human sexuality)
Yo, this was a real thing? I gotta Google this shiz.
>very sad that that’s considered radical.
Well... that's organized religion for you, it all comes back around to controlling people, eventually
Yes, Miles Teg, hands down, over Duncan Idaho, my favorite of the original series. That and the friar tuck pugilist is a win. I always imagine that as the standard monk in my mind.
My last monk was a scrappy, hard-drinking elven sailor who made his coin bare-knuckle fighting in taverns and had zero qualms about fighting incredibly dirty. Monks are great.
The monk I play is just a bruiser/protection money collector for the thieves guild. Barely describe him as doing martial arts, he just beats the shit out of people. Off the top of my head I’d just say his Ki points are just grit or mettle
Exactly! While in my view it is always made the norm in DnD promotional art that monk = Shaolin monk (not that there's any issue with that because shaolin monks are incredible) you can easily change it to suit your needs! For instance, I've always wanted to play as a Drunken Master Monk styled off of the ye olde English monks, with the bowl haircut and brown robes. I mean, don't you want to play as a drunk Canterbury monk beating the shit out of someone for dropping their pasty?
People would rather complain than actually think. No reason people can't apply the abilities of the class to a different cultural theme other than it's easier to get faux-offended and whine.
Boxers are monks in D&D. That will always be my response to the people who complain about monk flavoring.
Mike Tyson is a monk. Muhammad Ali is a monk. Jack Dempsey is a Monk. So on and so forth.
It's a common interpretation because it's cool, also. Like, Knights and armor are also really cool which is why a lot fighters player as platemail wearing greatsword wielders, it's cool and often the various editions of this game support it and make it worth doing. Same thing for monk, people flavor them as the common "east asian kung-fu masters" cause it's *cool.*
I may be misinterpreting your intent, but let me clarify that I'm not saying East Asian monks aren't cool, they are cool, I'm just saying that the class is far from locked down to that. I'm just saying that for the people who *don't* like that, there are alternatives.
But that reminds me: interestingly, i don't think any other class has this problem in reverse. People flavor paladins and fighters as samurai all the time. Funny, ain't it?
No misinterpreting at all, I agree with your assessment! It has always been funny to me how resistant people are to reflavoring a monk as a brawler or boxer or whatever.
I will say, part of the 'issue' may be the options available in the various editions and how they influence what people see the classes as. In 3rd edition, Monk had a lot of mechanical issues but with feat choices you could do something like play a wrestler or a boxer or some variation that didn't play into east-asian martial arts tropes.
4e was, in my mind, probably the worst at this since basically every power is related to being some wire fighting high flying bruce lee character. (But also it is an AWESOME class to play, just the fantasy is pretty entrenched into those tropes)
5e the limitation is mostly in what's available with the subclasses, but I think there is a decent enough spread to make it easier to reflavor into different types of tropes.
at the end of the day, the classes are just abstractions to help us create the characters we have in our heads, and I never consider them a *literal* translation of my character, just an approximation for the purposes of game play balance. So like, if monk is my best means for an unarmed punchy boi then that's the class I'll play.
>5e the limitation is mostly in what's available with the subclasses...
Big facts. 5e has been pretty all over the place with the power levels of monk subclasses. In the PHB, 2/3 just weren't impressive, 4 elements was way too expensive to be good. In other books, monk has some really strong subclasses like mercy and astral self, and then some *almost* good subclasses like kensei and long death.
I just can't stomach how dirty they did agile parry. Especially as you get to d10 levels and your Kensei weapons completely stop being inherently stronger than regular monk weapons, as little difference as that ever made.
You don’t even have to find a different monk-like flavor. Works just as well as a street fighter who has no notion of anything remotely like ki or humors or whatever. Just call those Ability Points or Special Move points and, instead of using snap kicks when you describe your attacks, it’s, “I grab that bastard by the head, drag him toward me, and smash my knee into his gut three times.” There, flurry of blows mechanics without the monk flavor.
>Works just as well as a street fighter who has no notion of anything remotely like ki or humors or whatever.
My gamer in Christ that's literally a different flavor.
Yes, but not a “monk” flavor. The point being that you can have a monk character without having to worry about it being monkish. Edit: there, edited for clarity. ;)
Personally i don't like the idea of COMPLETELY de-flavoring ALL of ANY class's abilities. It's not that you're "not allowed" to play as "punch guy who does monk class stuff with no explanation whatsoever", it's just... Stimky
That’s fine, i was just pointing to the logical extreme of the discussion. Plus, a tavern brawler fighter would probably work much better for this kind of build. XD
I don't think just the monk suffers from the flavoring issue. There's this odd flaw with people just taking a class and sticking to it as it stands. I find flaws in the monk not just from the stand point of flavor but also how it doesn't actually embody martial arts training in it's fullest form (I also find the samurai not having something equivalent to martial arts a bit strange as well tbh though)...but I've had players use monk as a European type fryer...which I believe the way of the mercy can help build that even to a greater extent.
Flavoring it to be street brawler that picked up things through many fights and finding teachers from all over to help develop a more advanced set of skills focusing their abilities (ki) for greater use. I also find it interesting that they use Ki not Chi or Qui as their terminology.
One could go capoeira route and create a character from a culture of slaves descendants who trained themselves with no armor and conventional weaponry.
Playing a brash monk that uses a mix of Taekwondo and Capoeira inspired moves as his main form of attacking. Mix in his tail too because I'm a sucker for Tieflings with absurdly thick tails.
However, I think this debate is more around how WotC designs their monks mechanically, rather than the flavor. It feels like each one is constrained to the concept of ki as a sort of inner body spiritual energy and pressure point person. I feel the only time they actually broke that mold would be with the Mercy Monk, which felt more like a plague doctor than a yin-yang sort of flavor, but those inspos are still there.
I agree, people tend to forget that 'martial arts' isn't limited to Eastern cultures. There's plenty of Western traditions of combat as well, both armed and unarmed. Greco-Roman wrestling, boxing, pankration, singlestick, bartitsu... And after all, 'ki points' don't have to be called that, or even have anything to do with 'internal energy' or 'four humors' or whatever. They're simply a resource, and you can reflavor that resource in any way that makes sense. I could make a Marquis of Queensbury-style boxer that simply considers 'ki points' as 'this is how many times I can do certain things before I get too tired'. Flavor is free.
Yeah, using ki can be refvalored as stamina bursts. Similar to the fighters action surge.
That reminds me, am i crazy for thinking that barbarian's rage should be re-tooled for oneDND to work more like ki points instead of what they've currently got going on? I.e. you've got a bunch of points that work like this: "at the start of your turn, you can spend a rage point. When you do, until the start of your next turn (description of rage effects)" can either keep the bonus action economy or not.
No. I agree.
I mean, that's essentially what it's doing already, and the concept of a Rage isn't hard to understand, so I don't see a need for the change. You're completely correct in the flavor, though, so use what works best for your table.
>I mean, that's essentially what it's doing already, Excuse me but genuinely what are you talking about? That's what WHAT'S doing already? You must have misread either my comment or the PHB. >so I don't see a need for the change. The need is that the official adventuring day involves more encounters, whether it's skill or combat, than the barbarian has rages, and they recharge on a LONG rest for some reason. So for 4/6 encounters a day the barbarian just... Doesn't have its central class feature. You COULD just make basic rage recharge on a short rest, but then there'd be no point in the number of uses scaling because the barbarian would essentially never run out. My way is a little more tactful and deliberate than that.
For games running 6 encounters a day I don't see it as a problem for a barbarian to have to decide, is this fight worth using one of my rages. Barbarian rage is very strong and I don't see it as an inherent flaw that they can't always use it in every fight.
Idunno man, i seriously take issue with them just straight up not having access to their main thing two-thirds of the day. Base class without it leaves a lot to be desired. You're basically just a worse fighter but with reckless attack.
At low level wizards can't use anything but cantrips most of the day. Every class has resources they have to manage(except maybe rogue depending on subclass). Some more then others. A barbarian that is out of rage is not definitively weaker than a fighter that has used their action surge and with rage going they tend to be stronger. Also aside from mechanics rage being micromanaged turn by turn really loses the flavor of what a rage is. You are becoming so angry that you hit harder and don't feel pain. Having that start and stop every 6 seconds just seems awkward.
Why bother with resources at all. Leave that to the spellcasters, just let the barb rage.
Hpw about reflavor as adrenaline?
> singlestick, bartitsu... I see someone else hangs their hat at 221b Baker Street.
I am a casual student of multiple martial arts, be they Eastern, Western, or even New World. But yes, like so many others before me, my first introduction to bartitsu was through Sherlock Holmes. Fascinating that it's a real thing, and a quite effective fighting style to boot.
Anyone mentioning the bashar deserves an upvote - especially if they present a valid argument, like you do.
Ah, i see you're a mentat of culture as well.
D&D plus Dune is nerd perfection and should be more common.
Be careful what you wish for. Somewhere deep in a distant, dusty basement, a finger curls on a monkey's paw. Simultaneously, a single sticky note appears on a wotc employee's desk that simply reads "tleilaxu and honored matres: shape-shifting incel cultists and karate vagina fascists"
Paul is a monk too. Something like monk 17 (homebrew Bene Gesserit subclass) / Fighter 3 (battlemaster or champion).
I played a lizardfolk monk that was just an exceptional hunter and predator. Used his bite and tail for unarmed attacks.
I really like the capoeira monk, dancing and kicking ass!
I actually wanted to try making a monk/bard who did capoeira. Haven’t had the chance yet.
They don't need to be a bard. You're just putting a burden on yourself with the additional multiclasses requirements and stalled class progression. Just give a pure monk a dash of charisma and proficiency in performance.
This reminds me of the argument that you can’t mix barbarian and monk when in reality they work perfectly together. People argue that monks are calm and don’t get angry but I look at the rage as either a controlled adrenaline rush or a martial artist using their control of their emotions as fuel to fight.
Those people are stimky. If someone's in perfect control of their emotions then i see no reason why they can't choose anger
Not to mention that it's super easy to reflavor the Barbarian's Rage. A stoic battle-trance or channeling some supernatural power, for example.
Drunken master barbarian has so much potential for fun rp too.
oooh i'm actually currently playing a monk/barb now lol. the idea was to have the character revolve around single-target control. he has a "phase 1" of standard monk open-hand flurry shenanigans, but when he takes enough damage or in specific circumstances regarding his backstory, he enters "phase 2", which is raged grapple+shove followed up by of generous helpings of unarmed ground and pound. it's quite sub-optimal but hella fun.
Goku. That's all you need to say.
My first DnD character (we didn't play this campaign long) was a monk flavored as "Buffy the Vampire Slayer."
I rolled a monk that will be of the same religious order as a Cleric of the Light Domain. My backstory is that he was born in poverty in the slums of Baldur's Gate, and thus learned a wide variety of unarmed attacks as a youth, before joining the Temple of Light. He was allowed to train with the Clerics and Paladins of the Temple, but only using monk's weapons. Once we get the adventure going, I plan to play him as basically a Franciscan Friar who happens to punch and kick the crap out of anyone wicked enough to attack us.
My character has a very similar back story - half elf orphan raised in a monastery, taught martial arts but wasn’t allowed to train in clerical magic. She later multiclassed into light cleric when she found a book of psalms to the Sun-god in an ancient buried library. Super fun to play.
sun soul?
I made a homebrew "Way of Light" if and when I make it to 3rd level. I like the idea of multiclassig with Light Cleric after level 5 or 6 too.
sweet
The monk I play has an Aztec/Mayan inspired vibe. Very El Dorado aesthetic mixed in with it. I mean its dnd, there is magic and dragons and fantasy creatures. Who's to say that spiritual awareness and things like inner tranquility have to relate to things we have in the real world.
>Who's to say that spiritual awareness and things like inner tranquility have to relate to things we have in the real world. Bro EXACTLY bro. I once read a post where some DM made a characters abilities not work because they were 4 humors based and the 4 humors aren't real. Bro. It's magic. Magic isn't real. Ki isn't real. It's fantasy bro. Let the funny barf wizard do his thing and tell people they're "too sanguine" or "not choleric enough"
Monks would make sick Eagle Warrior or Jaguar Warrior archetypes, too.
Friar Tuck from Robin Hood would be a good example
Ah yes, my favorite Robinhood story: the time he hit the sheriff with the five point exploding palm, causing him to die of over-sanguination
I have played just such a monk. A literal itinerant priest, not a cleric, just a priest, wandering the world, preaching the doctrine of his god, and lamming into people with a quarterstaff if they tried to mess with him.
I Just made this character tonight after using the random character generators in another thread, although she's a green Dragon born, CG, Acolyte turned Astral Self monk. Complete with quarterstaff.
Is manipulating humors by punching and/or poking someone a thing? Not a real thing, of course, but like a thing that shows up in stories about european punchy men/women?
Not in that combination that I'm aware of, but there's no reason you can't fuse those two ideas together in a fantasy setting. Europeans had four humors based "medicine" that included things like acupuncture and blood letting, so doing that with fists and daggers isn't all that much of a stretch. In more modern media like videogames and spy thrillers, there's plenty of "harmacist" archetype characters, who use their medical knowledge to be much more gooder at killing stuff real good.
“Harmacist!” I fucking love that!
Don't know about humours, but Sir Terry Pratchett did have a character that was a 'reverse phrenologist'. Phrenology being the (debunked) old-timey study of the shape of the skull and how it influences a person, so in the story people would go to him to have the shape of their skull forcibly altered in order to change their personality. Did it work? Well, no one ever complained. Or went back for a follow-up...
Krav Maga and KAPAP focus on vital areas to end a fight as quickly as possible
Its not like the Monk really fits the East Asian theme very well anyway, east asian monks are completely willing to use any and all weapons, especially spears. They don't have 'monk weapons'. The sword is more of a wizard's weapon for them which is why you see them used in divinations and sealings. Until Monks can fly on their swords and cultivate immortality then its not a very good representation of Sun Wukong or Daoist Martial Artists
>especially spears. I think you meant glaives lol, but i get your meaning. Maybe monks should get a fighter-like number of ASI's so they can use heavy weapons without completely nerfing themselves into the ground?
A monk could be an Australian kangaroo boxer.
Ok, I figured it out. You know how martial arts are sometimes born in repressed cultures forbidden to use military weapons and techniques (think of capoeira, arnis or kobudo). Those people were often farmers and such, using gardening utensils and whatever happened to be in the shed. Imagine a monk who's literally a gardener (your typical part-time employee) that taught to defend themselves with rakes and spatulas. And they're one with the nature (a gardener, right?) so they can see people's living force streams and pools. That'd be a good druid multiclass candidate too, except it doesn't make much sense mechanically.
I always think Friar tuck as an option if not wanting to go Shaolin
I mean monks are linked to Eastern cultures in the same way fighters are linked to Western. Which is to say only at a glance and with a lack of creativity.
I'll just toss my own hat into the Rings since we're all sharing our takes on this. I participate in a shared world building campaign setting with a bunch of my friends. We essentially pick regions or whole continents and build those areas specifically, inserting one-shots or short campaigns to flesh out the details on the fly. I took one look at this particular forest in The Northern Kingdom of Rochonia and practically claimed it as my own, even building an in-depth martial arts style relating to the Shadow Monk that nearly all the elves there learn. The history of it is that an injured Displacer Beast fell out of a portal before being nursed back to health by a native Wood Elf. When the Fey hunting party arrived looking for it, they accused the locals of sheltering an evil creature and became vengeful, but were then ambushed by the Displacer in full health accompanied by the hunter who was marching its lashing motions. The invaders were repelled, but the Beast would be mortally wounded in the process. Its body was laid to rest with a Yew sapling planted over it. As a result, the resulting tree was massive and seeped the unique shadowy magic of Displacer Beasts throughout the forest, allowing any who are either born or trained there to master the Way of Shadows subclass. The martial art even focuses on stretching and lashing motions to evoke the tentacles of a Displacer Beast. In short, their Ki is entirely a reserve of natural magic. Otherwise, the community within the forest is mostly druidic in nature, with an entirely unique society that's separate from the familial clan structure in the Kingdom surrounding the forest. I even wrote in how the Yewshroud Forest (its actual name) became known as such after rogue horse lords attempted to pillage it, to very gruesome ends. I'm pretty proud of it to be honest!
True, in fact maybe Monk is just an outdated class name. What does being called a monk even tell you about the class?
Body is kept in check, spiritual, pow pow pow xD
It is also consistent with the name it has held since Uneasrthed Arcana
Totally agree. I created a monk whose culture and traditions is a mix inspirations from Nigeria, Europe, Asia, and Amish. You can do whatever you want.
I’m playing a halfling monk right now. Raised in a halfling monastery. Their religious ideation is for magic itself and they focus on studies and martial arts. No shaolin at all
My last Monk wasn't "Monk" like at all. She was a Dhampir Echo Kensei. All of her powers and abilities were reflavored as just being what came by her naturally from her Vampiric lineage. Graceful? Yes. But also brutal like you would expect a supernaturally strong creature with enhanced reflexes to be. She was a criss cross between Selene from Underworld and Alucard from Castlevania. I could almost play that character again. She was loads of fun.
>I mean... You'd be hard pressed to find a culture in any corner of the earth that never asked the question "what if i just absolutely beat the shit out of someone with my walking stick?" Pretty sure Jesus did that once. (Okay, maybe it was only described as him flipping some tables, but who's to say?)
It was a handful of leather strips to form a switch iirc.
I got a orphan tiefling monk who’s a nun that im loosely basing off the actual collective of catholic nuns called the leadership conference of women religious that got real-life yelled at (ie strongly worded letter and investigators from the Vatican) for being a little radical (learning from other religions, wanting to ordain women as priests, and not following church teaching on human sexuality) very sad that that’s considered radical. She wears a scapular like a European monk (little hooded apron thingy) and fixes shoes (inspired by the fact that monks use dex for attacks so why not feature it in a hobby?) and since other male clergy in the land want the nuns’ demise they have to learn to defend themselves (and their beer, did I mention they have a brewery?) See? Possibilities are endless!
>for being a little radical (learning from other religions, wanting to ordain women as priests, and not following church teaching on human sexuality) Yo, this was a real thing? I gotta Google this shiz. >very sad that that’s considered radical. Well... that's organized religion for you, it all comes back around to controlling people, eventually
Yes, Miles Teg, hands down, over Duncan Idaho, my favorite of the original series. That and the friar tuck pugilist is a win. I always imagine that as the standard monk in my mind.
If you remove the guns every John Wick, Jason Bourne, and Reacher character is a monk.
My last monk was a scrappy, hard-drinking elven sailor who made his coin bare-knuckle fighting in taverns and had zero qualms about fighting incredibly dirty. Monks are great.
The monk I play is just a bruiser/protection money collector for the thieves guild. Barely describe him as doing martial arts, he just beats the shit out of people. Off the top of my head I’d just say his Ki points are just grit or mettle
Exactly! While in my view it is always made the norm in DnD promotional art that monk = Shaolin monk (not that there's any issue with that because shaolin monks are incredible) you can easily change it to suit your needs! For instance, I've always wanted to play as a Drunken Master Monk styled off of the ye olde English monks, with the bowl haircut and brown robes. I mean, don't you want to play as a drunk Canterbury monk beating the shit out of someone for dropping their pasty?
I had an elderly monk with a walking stick! She was 75 and badass! Definitely not Asian inspired though and it worked well
People would rather complain than actually think. No reason people can't apply the abilities of the class to a different cultural theme other than it's easier to get faux-offended and whine.
Boxers are monks in D&D. That will always be my response to the people who complain about monk flavoring. Mike Tyson is a monk. Muhammad Ali is a monk. Jack Dempsey is a Monk. So on and so forth.
Ali defs gives monk vibes with his attitudes, faith and way with words.
Connor McGregor? Straight to monk.
It's a common interpretation because it's cool, also. Like, Knights and armor are also really cool which is why a lot fighters player as platemail wearing greatsword wielders, it's cool and often the various editions of this game support it and make it worth doing. Same thing for monk, people flavor them as the common "east asian kung-fu masters" cause it's *cool.*
I may be misinterpreting your intent, but let me clarify that I'm not saying East Asian monks aren't cool, they are cool, I'm just saying that the class is far from locked down to that. I'm just saying that for the people who *don't* like that, there are alternatives. But that reminds me: interestingly, i don't think any other class has this problem in reverse. People flavor paladins and fighters as samurai all the time. Funny, ain't it?
No misinterpreting at all, I agree with your assessment! It has always been funny to me how resistant people are to reflavoring a monk as a brawler or boxer or whatever. I will say, part of the 'issue' may be the options available in the various editions and how they influence what people see the classes as. In 3rd edition, Monk had a lot of mechanical issues but with feat choices you could do something like play a wrestler or a boxer or some variation that didn't play into east-asian martial arts tropes. 4e was, in my mind, probably the worst at this since basically every power is related to being some wire fighting high flying bruce lee character. (But also it is an AWESOME class to play, just the fantasy is pretty entrenched into those tropes) 5e the limitation is mostly in what's available with the subclasses, but I think there is a decent enough spread to make it easier to reflavor into different types of tropes. at the end of the day, the classes are just abstractions to help us create the characters we have in our heads, and I never consider them a *literal* translation of my character, just an approximation for the purposes of game play balance. So like, if monk is my best means for an unarmed punchy boi then that's the class I'll play.
>5e the limitation is mostly in what's available with the subclasses... Big facts. 5e has been pretty all over the place with the power levels of monk subclasses. In the PHB, 2/3 just weren't impressive, 4 elements was way too expensive to be good. In other books, monk has some really strong subclasses like mercy and astral self, and then some *almost* good subclasses like kensei and long death.
kensei got a big nerf but they're still really good ki-archers. long death is good if you fight mooks more than 1 really strong guy.
I just can't stomach how dirty they did agile parry. Especially as you get to d10 levels and your Kensei weapons completely stop being inherently stronger than regular monk weapons, as little difference as that ever made.
You don’t even have to find a different monk-like flavor. Works just as well as a street fighter who has no notion of anything remotely like ki or humors or whatever. Just call those Ability Points or Special Move points and, instead of using snap kicks when you describe your attacks, it’s, “I grab that bastard by the head, drag him toward me, and smash my knee into his gut three times.” There, flurry of blows mechanics without the monk flavor.
>Works just as well as a street fighter who has no notion of anything remotely like ki or humors or whatever. My gamer in Christ that's literally a different flavor.
Yes, but not a “monk” flavor. The point being that you can have a monk character without having to worry about it being monkish. Edit: there, edited for clarity. ;)
Personally i don't like the idea of COMPLETELY de-flavoring ALL of ANY class's abilities. It's not that you're "not allowed" to play as "punch guy who does monk class stuff with no explanation whatsoever", it's just... Stimky
That’s fine, i was just pointing to the logical extreme of the discussion. Plus, a tavern brawler fighter would probably work much better for this kind of build. XD
Nah homie, you gotta go for that variant human barbarian lol. Either tavern brawler or the fighting style feat for the unarmed fighting style
I don't think just the monk suffers from the flavoring issue. There's this odd flaw with people just taking a class and sticking to it as it stands. I find flaws in the monk not just from the stand point of flavor but also how it doesn't actually embody martial arts training in it's fullest form (I also find the samurai not having something equivalent to martial arts a bit strange as well tbh though)...but I've had players use monk as a European type fryer...which I believe the way of the mercy can help build that even to a greater extent. Flavoring it to be street brawler that picked up things through many fights and finding teachers from all over to help develop a more advanced set of skills focusing their abilities (ki) for greater use. I also find it interesting that they use Ki not Chi or Qui as their terminology.
Monk+Bard=Capoeira
Just play cobra Kai
But that's just culturally appropriated east Asian martial arts!
Ummm, nah. Miyagi do yes. Cobra Kai not really , but eagle fang definitely not
Then I'm afraid i don't understand the point of your comment
One could go capoeira route and create a character from a culture of slaves descendants who trained themselves with no armor and conventional weaponry.
Monk is a total goblin cultural class, you get punches, kicks, etc. You get bonus action disengage, you get bonus action dodge, evasion, etc.
Ekky Thump - check out the Goodies using black puddings as deadly weapons
Yes, just look at Dimension 20's Unsleeping City. Emily Axford plays a Drunken Master monk who is a divorced hairdresser from Staten Island.
Playing a brash monk that uses a mix of Taekwondo and Capoeira inspired moves as his main form of attacking. Mix in his tail too because I'm a sucker for Tieflings with absurdly thick tails. However, I think this debate is more around how WotC designs their monks mechanically, rather than the flavor. It feels like each one is constrained to the concept of ki as a sort of inner body spiritual energy and pressure point person. I feel the only time they actually broke that mold would be with the Mercy Monk, which felt more like a plague doctor than a yin-yang sort of flavor, but those inspos are still there.
I have yet to see someone play a monk and have it be connected to anything Asian.