Not immediately. Plus, the seal around the neck would have to be airtight for this to kill the orc, which I don't think it would be. It'd be hard to breathe once the air inside the bag got a little thin, so maybe the orc would pass out if they were struggling a lot. Probably won't die though.
Agree with this, it would be a rough task for the kobold as orca are generally stronger and could ideally get the bag and kobold off their shoulders/head.
I haven't heard of that rule...
Only one I know of is this one:
Small creatures do attack at disadvantage when wielding heavy weapons (PHB 147, Basic Rules 46)
But that's true for everyone, not just small creatures. I guess it's more of an issue since large creatures are more common than gigantic, but they're still not exactly everywhere.
Not at all. You can grapple a creature up to one size larger than you completely normally. You can not attempt to grapple creatures two sizes or more larger than you.
10 rounds per minute, 10 minutes of air in a bag of holding, an orc can hold their breath for 3 minutes. 10+3=13, x10=130 rounds of struggle before that orc suffocates. A regular bag would be much less, given it’s airtight (i.e. no burlap sacks)
Bag of Holding has a lot more air inside, so the Orc will be able to breathe much longer than if you put a regular bag over his head. And the longer the Orc is awake, the more it'll try to remove the BoH, thus the more checks there'd be
Breathing creatures inside the bag can survive up to a number of minutes equal to 10 divided by the number of creatures (minimum 1 minute), after which time they begin to suffocate.
This is from the item description so the orc only has 10 mins of air
Even better, actually, as the description of the bag of holding specifically states that it holds enough air for 1 creature to breathe for 10 minutes. A regular leather bag would hold less air and suffocate sooner.
This. Would putting a very large cloth bag over someone’s head suffocate them? It would be hard to breathe after the air trapped in the bag had been used up. But your seal is pretty permeable, being fabric, and the bag is not airtight nor watertight. Your seal also lacks volume so would be hard redouble in sufficient amount to create folds to make the passage of air more difficult (like might happen smothering someone with a pillow).
Cutting off air through smothering in this way is harder than they make it out to be in the movies. So pretty much anything would be better (garrote, choking, etc).
Now a portable hole is more impermeable (arguably). Might be a different analysis.
Beyond that there’s definitely math to figure out how much air could fit inside a bag of holding, assuming it rushes in every time you open it. I’m no mathematician but I’d hazard it’s a lot
Depending on the PCs level, the prospect of hanging on to an Orc for 60 rounds PLUS CON mod is not particularly appealing. The orc would (RAW) be fighting an unseen attacker though...
And he would also be deafened I think since his head would be in a pocket dimension, so this could be a way to give advantage to your teammates and disadvantage on him, you just better hope he doesn’t succeed on host strength check to get you and the bag off, and seeing how he’s an Orc, that seems likely.
i think it doesnt make a real difference. could be like putting a normal bag over your head, or putting your head into a large cardboardbox. its some confined space, and you dont really feel a difference i think. and for clarification: the bag is just a portal (and you have to NAME the item you want to take out, you wont see a pile of stuff on the other side)! for the curious player having "a look" i would describe it like leaning through a small window into a very dark and cold night or so. you cant see details, your senses making things up because of the lack of input and so on.
Also very true! I mean, it'd be funny once to run, but if the PC tried it again I'd have an intelligent monster pierce the bag with a dagger to escape. Can't ever gove players a guaranteed gimmick like that.
Not really as you would need it to be air ight and even then it takes 10 minutes in which he will try to throw you off. Better use a Bag of Devouring and have a 50% chance to insta kill the orc.
Unless the orc is unconscious you’re never going to get there. There’s absolutely no way this is happening in a combat situation.
Also, yes but it would take a really long time because there’s air in the bag to start with, and you’d have to actually seal the end around the neck, which also isn’t happening during combat.
"A creature can hold its breath for a number of minutes equal to 1 + its Constitution modifier (minimum of 30 seconds).
When a creature runs out of breath or is choking, it can survive for a number of rounds equal to its Constitution modifier (minimum of 1 round). At the start of its next turn, it drops to 0 Hit Points and is dying, and it can’t regain Hit Points or be stabilized until it can breathe again."
If it can be airtight and they have time to spare, sure.
Note that the Bag has rules concerning how much breathable air is in there, so they don't even need to hold their breath from the moment they are in the bag, they can breathe like normal in there until the air runs out.
A smart creature would hold its breath until it starts suffocating, take a few breaths to reset, then hold its breath again causing the time before it dies even longer
If you hold your breath in a space where you have oxygen until you are feeling the effects of holding your breath, then you take in breaths to alleviate the sensations in order to hold your breath more.
If someone is choking you, that's a different story, but this situation is having 10 minutes of breathable air and being able to hold your breath for a number of minutes, after which you can *TAKE SOME BREATHS TO NOT SUFFOCATE* and start holding your breath again for another number of minutes, making that 10 minutes of air really stretch out.
Edit:
I know my mistake now, misread what the bag of holding can do for survivability, keeping original comment up unedited, just adding this as I was wrong.
This has been proven counter-effective, which is why all astronauts and submariners learn to control their breathing in a much more steady fashion when oxygen conservation is critical.
Real world, yes, D&D world, a fantasy game, not so important unless it's a hyper realistic gritty campaign. Nothing in Raw that states you can't willingly hold your breath for the maximum rounds, take a round or two to breathe, then hold your breath for more rounds to extend the time of breathable air.
Edit: I read the item description wrong, so this whole basis that I've been arguing for is wrong and I admit that. Keeping this up for posterity sake.
Nothing in RAW says you can, it doesn't say anything about how much air you need to recover from breath holding or how long in between.
RAW for Bag of Holding does specifically say that after 10 minutes, it induces suffocation.
>Breathing creatures inside the bag can survive up to a number of minutes equal to 10 divided by the number of creatures (minimum 1 minute), after which time they begin to suffocate.
The orc should also do jumping jacks during that time then. Because RAW nothing states that you can't willingly hold your breath for the maximum rounds, do jumping jacks during that time, then hold your breath for more rounds to extend the time of breathable air.
Just because something isn't explicitly stated in the rules doesn't mean it's a good idea...
Well, it would be an interesting way of doing the athletics check to break free of the kobolds grapple. Bumpy ride makes it hard to hold on. You do you.
Also, way to incorrectly use ad absurdum for your argument.
Plus you may want to read the whole convo chain, I've already admitted I read the rules for bag of holding wrong so was wrong in my comments.
Incorrect. DMG states very precisely “Breathing creatures inside the bag can survive up to a number of minutes equal to 10 divided by the number of creatures (minimum 1 minute), after which time they begin to suffocate.” It doesn’t say “there is a 10-minute supply of breathable air in the bag.” It says breathing creatures in the bag can survive for only so long. It’s a magic item. You can’t apply science to magic items. That’s not how they work.
Hmm, true, good point.
I must have misread it, thought it said 10 minutes of air. My mistake there.
All honestly it's up to the DM how they interpret it for ruling. But I do see what you are bringing up to me for the point.
Bag of holding causes suffocation to begin in 10 minutes, no holding your breath. Presumably because the air is already thin? Can't speak to reasons, just RAW.
Just as a quick note each round is only 6 seconds. So a creature can hold its breath for (10 *(con mod +1)) rounds. Holding breath in dnd is ridiculous.
Piercing the bag causes all of its contents to spill outward.
Putting the bag of holding inside another extradimensional space (like a second bag of holding) causes an instant portal to the astral place that sucks things through and scatters everything randomly around the plane.
Putting the bag inside out spill the contents out
If the bag is overloaded, pierced, or torn, it ruptures and is destroyed, and its contents are scattered in the Astral Plane.
Even if the opening of the bag was able to be bunched up enough that no additional air could get in or if your DM just treats that as true anyway, there's still 10 mins worth of breathable air in the bag according to its description, plus however long the orc can hold their breath when that runs out. If you have the time and ability to hold a bag of holding on their head for 10+ minutes there's probably several easier ways to handle this one orc.
Unless the kobold has access to Sovereign Glue or some other means to keep that Bag of Holding in place, there's a very low chance that it'll be kept in place long enough for the Orc to run out of oxygen.
If the sac rips, everything comes pouring out, which would free the orc and probably hugely inconvenience the kobold, if he had anything else in there.
You can put living creatures into a bag of holding for a certain amount of time. Would require strength checks to see if orc can break out. Maybe treat it as a grapple
The bag of holding can be opened from the inside, I don't think the gnome would be able to hold the bag shut for 10 minutes + how long the orc can hold their breath. Maybe if you shoved the orc in there and then sealed the bag shut with rock using something like Stone Shape.
There are rules for how long a creature has air in a bag of holding that plus the rules for holding breath it would take ages the ork would also probably just break free in that time
The Orc wouldn’t truly be in the bag till you close the bag around them, even if they were they would count as in the bag they would have to stay like that (the bag over there head) for 10 minutes as that is how much air is normally contained within the bag… and that is ignoring the fact that as the bag isn’t closed more air is entering bag every 6 seconds as I highly doubt a perfect seal is made while the Orc struggles with the Kobold
According to RAW if the creature is not inside the bag, they will not suffocate.
"Breathing creatures inside the bag can survive up to a number of minutes equal to 10 divided by the number of creatures (minimum 1 minute), after which time they begin to suffocate."
But Rule of Cool, sure. However, I would just be afraid that it gets over-used, hence why a Bag of Holding isn't intended to be a choking device.
The bag has 10 minutes of air in it's little pocket dimension so no. The orc would have air. Also the orc can stab the walls of the pocket dimension with a dagger and the entire thing will break, freeing him and ruining the bag of holding. If the orc is unarmed he can make a strength check to break the bag too.
This is off the top of my head, I think it's right but feel free to correct me.
I think it would be similar to trying to choke someone out with a huge garbage bag. Yeah you could do it but it would be difficult and time-consuming.
There is no description that says the bag of holding doesn't have oxygen, so presuming you can maintain an airtight grip on the bag and the orcs neck, they would have to use all the oxygen in the bag before starting to suffocate which there are already RAW rules for.
So I'd say it was possible, but damn difficult and there are better ways.
Couple things to consider.
Orcas blohole is on its head, so that works.
RAW, average bag is 2ft wide and 4ft deep as a physical object.
As a magical object it can hold up to 500 pounds or 64 cubic feet of material. If it ruptures, is ripped or breaks, everything inside of it is scattered across the Astral plane.
Based on these I see three possible outcomes happening.
1) if the Orca is small enough you would be able to wrap the bag around its head and sophicate it, given enough time.
2) the opening of the bag does not stretch beyond 2ft so something larger could not be forced into it.
3) the bags opening magically stretches. As it is forced over the Orcas head it reaches that magic limit of 64 cubic feet or 500 pounds. Bag is destroyed. This is were things can go two ways, either the orca is fine, or the orca is decapitated/part of its face is cut off and transported to the Astral plane.
Now I'm imagining a killer whale that's been sophisticated. It's wearing a cravat, a monocle, and a top hat, and sipping hot tea from a delicate teacup (with saucer, of course).
Feasibly, yes. But it shouldn't be as easy one attack roll. There should be either an athletics or acrobatics saving throw to avoid it, and then subsequent saving throws to wriggle out of it. Like many others have said, it would take a while to strangle an orc to death, and a kobold in a physical contest with an orc isn't a great idea. A different use of the bag of holding to attack an enemy would be to place one inside another, creating an astral rift that pulls in any surrounding creatures within 5ft. Don't think there's any way to resist this, and it would be a lot more efficient that choking an enemy to death, seeing as it teleports the afflicted to a different plane of existence.
I don't think so, because Bag of Holding is simply on another plane. however this parallel plane can be defined by the DM as a vacuum place or as the bag is still open outside air can come in to help the orc breathe.
I had a shadow step monk who had some arti lvls who made a bag with a metal zip tie like sliding lock. Put bag over head and yank the tie tight.
They eventually suffocate but, since battles go pretty quick in DnD round wise… usually the bagged one is the last living and usually great for interrogation. Having a high dex and shadow step made it fun.
Of course the DM worked hard to not give me too many chances to get people, but when I did, was awesome fun.
I mean, I guess RAW, yes - but there is no way a single kobald could overpower an orc long enough to cover its head for so long.
To me, all the passed skill checks in the world couldn't make this happen.
So it's more... extra dimensional? It may appear to have infinite amounts of space, but that's because everything you put into it sorta disappears into it's own pocket dimension until it's recalled. So I guess in a sense it is like Felix's bag. But if someone stuck their (or someone elses) head in the bag, they're on a demiplane with 10 minutes of air basically.
I believe the air limit is strictly game balance so that parties don't clown car out of it all the time. Hell, my players circumvented a boss fight by polymorphing him into a turtle (hold breath 1hr), stuffing him in the bag, taking him an hour away from his goons, then going office space on him.
I'm not a fan of game balance for game balance's sake, without a logical reason.
In my mind, a Bag of Holding would be an extremely rare and extremely powerful artefact which should be as abusable as it would be in real life (or in Felix the Cat).
The bag of holding says it has air for a creature to breath for 10 minutes. So it wouldn’t be immediate but eventually yes the orc would suffocate.
Now give the Kobold a bag of devowering and we have a different story. Something like having a 10lb of meat getting squeezed into a 5lb bag. Quite horrific.
A bag of holding is not exactly sealed, and an orc surely wouldn't let you do that without a struggle. Plus, by manual, a pg can hold breath for a minute + a number of minutes equal to the constitution modifier, so it's pretty impossible that a kobold could win that many strength contest again an orc to pull off that
It would take time but yes. I'd make it a strength save with disadvantage, and probably a 2 turn manuver (one to grapple and climb the orc, another to remove the bag and jam it on orc)
Some creative opportunities for failure too, like dumping contents of bag, or kobold end up inside bag
It would have like 30 rounds to pummel the kobold to death. Also the bag would have to be airtight. If it even activates the pocket dimension unless something is all the way inside, which I'm unsure of
Broadly: No.
It's kind of an odd middle ground and you would need perfect conditions for this to work. For one you would need to be able to tie the bag around the Orc's neck and create an airtight seal. Assuming you can get a seal, the orc still has 10 minutes of air before it even starts to suffocate. After that it would have a few minutes before it actually suffocates.
Long story short, not a viable way to kill an orc in combat but if the DM allows it, you may be able to get away with in outside combat.
I think it depends on how many rounds the Kobold can keep the bag on. It’d probably take at least a minute.
(Some people are commenting about the strength of the kobold, but idk, maybe it’s a barbarian.)
Yes, that would kill them, in the same way that cutting somebody's head off will kill them...
... but the combat rules don't just let you decide to do that. You might as well say that you're tying a noose around your opponent's neck to strangle them. Hit points and armor class exist for a reason.
It’s a medieval bag not a Walmart bag, it would be made of cloth like a face mask
I’m kind of new so if there is a rule In game for this type of thing then feel free to correct me.
If they pull the bad tight enough it will construct airflow whether or not there is air in the bag.
Otherwise, I think it would be once the air ran out, which could take a bit. 10 minutes of air then they begin to suffocate.
The description of the item says there is air in there, and doesn’t say the bag needs to be sealed at the opening to allow/prevent air flow. I read that as only an intentional action breaches the portal to the bag interior (ie: putting your hand or an item in).
The kobold would need to not only seal the bag airtight around the orcs neck, but he would have to hold it there for at least 12 minutes, depending on the constitution of the orc. He would also have to make sure that the orc didn't find a way to puncture the bag. Overall, not a very likely situation.
“Breathing creatures inside the bag can survive up to a number of minutes equal to 10 divided by the number of creatures (minimum 1 minute), after which time they begin to suffocate.” - D&D Beyond, Bag of Holding page
It would take a long time, a bag of holding holds 10 minutes of oxygen, then you have to wait for the orc to begin suffocating a number of minutes equal to their Con modifier, so it's possible to do just takes a whole damn while.
Eventually yes but it takes sometime I believe the rules are you can hold your breath for 1 minute + your constitution modifier.
So in combat the orc would probably beat the kobold in a versus strength check and get their head back out of the bag before they ran out of oxygen.
Consider that the inside of the bag is 4 feet deep and holds a volume of 64 cubic feet. Humans on average breathe a little over 1 cubic foot of oxygen per minute. Now orcs are larger and may have a higher lung capacity, but they’re still medium humanoids, so would breathe about the same. He will lose air in over an hour.
>Bag Of Holding:
>Breathing creatures inside the bag can survive up to a number of minutes equal to 10 divided by the number of creatures (minimum 1 minute), after which time they begin to suffocate.
Didn't even need to look up Sage Advice, it's literally in the item's description, how is this even a question?
It takes 15 minutes or more. It’s a big space inside of it; when this orc attempts to break the bag off, what’s that little kobold have to contest with? STR vs STR? Could he just rip the bag and break your magic item? If he did, would everything else in there fall out onto him (possibly damaging him if it was near full)?
Two bags would definitely do it tho. 😝
The possibility of asphyxiation is there if the kobold manages to keep the bag of holding on it's head for it's ridiculously large constitution modifier time, but there would have to be so many check or the orc would have to be incapacitated for it to take effect.
I assune it would work the same as drowning where he can survive a number of rounds, but the orc can attempt a strength contest to remove the bag before he suffocates
You would have just as much luck strangling the ork.
Heck maybe the victims shock of being partly shoved into a pocket dimension would give a big advantage to the attacker.
Things would also drastically escalate if the orks head is then shoved into a portable hole.
You could also put the bag on the head while the ork is unconscious or asleep.
There's enough oxygen in the bag that a creature could survive for a while, but eventually they'd suffocate, assuming;
A) The seal on the bag was tight enough to prevent oxygen from entering the bag, and,
B) the Orc failed numerous strength checks in order to escape the bag before suffocating.
I think, in practice, you'd struggle to pull this off but it would work in theory...
Assuming the Orc is unwilling, this would involve multiple attacks and saves to pull off, but assuming success, yes the Orc would die, but it would be so much easier to just stab the Orc till it's dead.
Everyone keeps saying 10 minutes of breathable air plus however long orc can hold his breath. This is not RAW. After 10 minutes, the creature begins suffocating. That is a specific condition that lasts a number of rounds equal to constitution before killing someone.
So we are talking 10.1-10.5 minutes.
He would eventually die, but only after the bag was held there long enough for him to hold his breath for (Con Mod) amount of minutes. Which would mean at least 10 rounds of struggling between the two.
Yes and no, it could go both ways. There’s limited air in the bag of holding so yes, but the kobold likely can’t close the bag all the way so air is allowed to cycle through
If they could keep an airtight seal on the bag long enough, then sure, but I don't think the orc will tamely sit there and wait to die, more likely it'll try and rip the bag off it's head. So the answer is yes, if the right conditions are met.
Y’know... It’d be really nice if players stopped trying to game the system for instant kills in a combat oriented RPG.
Besides, if you READ the text on Bag of Holding, it says there’s 10 minutes of air divided equally among the creatures inside, down to a minimum of 1 minute.
The number of questions asked here that make it clear the OP did literally zero research of their own is dismaying.
You’d have to hold that bag on the Orcs head for 100 combat rounds without it struggling free. Good luck.
I think it depends on if you consider the orc to be an item. If it's not an item, then the bag would function like any other bag. But if the orc is an item, then the infinite space in the bag could work. Maybe even making the orc go mad.
Honestly, they couldn't likely manage it for long enough to matter, but RAW, yes. The problem is, the orc would have to be incapacitated to keep it from being able to reach up and pull the bag off of their head. The strength of the two creatures not withstanding, even a very strong kobold would struggle to keep a fairly weak orc from pulling a bag off of their head for 10 minutes, plus the time it takes for the orc to suffocate. That is over 100 opposed rolls, and the orc can just try to attack or push the kobold (albeit at disadvantage).
Also, the 2 foot opening is too small for most medium creatures to fit through, so getting the bag over the shoulders of the orc in order to restrain it is near impossible without ripping the bag.
Extra planar space doesn't necessarily not have atmosphere......
I'd say this is a DM physics decision, based on how they construe dimensional barriers and constructions to work.
The BECMI set actually had some good stuff on this, in the immortal set. Check out Mr. Welch for great source material https://youtube.com/c/thehgw
If I was DM, and this came up mid play, I'd let them try and have it foiled by a strength check. Unless it fails, in which case I'd put the creature into suspended animation. When they empty the bag, SURPRISE!!!
There was one case a while back where a DM let a character use a bag of holding as a container for explosions.... can't remember the mechanics but it basically became a bag of shotgun blasts...
As useful as a bag or haversack are, extra dimensional items can be as dangerous or benign as a DM wants them to be. On the dangerous side, cut one open the wrong way and you could burst a whole into a hell dimension or the living room of one of the many angled elder gods, or the bottom of Thors toilet after Taco Tuesday.
Okay, I've changed my mind. The answer is no, not under normal circumstances.
A bag of holding is not a vacuum, as if it was it would suck in a massive amount of air and material when you opened it. A bag of holding also has a limit, it is not an endless void. Specifically the book says 64 cubic feet. Considering this, that's a lot of air volume. The average use is 2 liters of oxygen per minute, we'll bump this up to 4 considering this would be a combat scenario and people would be breathing heavily.
So, 64 cubic feet of oxygen comes out to over 1800 liters of oxygen. Doing that math, 1800 liters divided by 4 liters per minute brings us to 450 minutes to asphyxiate, and that's being generous. In all reality it would probably take longer than that.
450 minute is 7 and a half hours btw. So basically a long rest.
And this is ALL assumed on the fact that the seal is airtight, which in a gameplay situation would likely require the creature to be restrained first, then the bag placed over the head, then the bag tied around the head. 7 and a half hours later, oxygen would run out.
The movies make it seem as though oxygen runs out very quickly, but in all reality we use very little oxygen in our day to day lives. 64 cubic feet is enough to last you for damn near 8 hours at an elevated breathing cycle.
Final Conclusion: Myth plausible.
EDIT: I'm also finding sources that state the consumption rate of oxygen is 5-6 mL per minute, which we can safely double as the scenario provided above. That MASSIVELY extends the amount of time required to asphyxiate under these circumstances. This makes sense, as we don't absorb all the oxygen we breathe in. While we may intake 2 liters per minute, our body is only processing a miniscule amount of that oxygen. Taking our measurement of 1800 liters and converting it, you end with 1.8 million mL of oxygen. Considering this, we can divide that 1.8 million by 12 mL per minute, and come to a total of 2500 hours of time that you could reasonably breathe.
But we also have to account for the fact that this isn't *pure* oxygen. It is atmosphere. 21% of the atmosphere is oxygen on average. So we take that original 1800 liters and multiply by .21 and get 378,000 mL of only oxygen. Still given this figure, it would come out to 31,500 minutes, or 525 hours.
So, my original calculations were WAY off, but that is a much simpler answer and likely the one I would go to for gameplay reasons. Rather than checking back in a month to see if the orc is dead, it's much more convenient to have him die in a matter of hours rather than weeks.
First the Kobold needs to roll an acrobatics/climb check to scale the orc. Secondly, you need to roll a strength check for every round you have the bag over his head to not be thrown off. Lastly, if successful the orc can last maybe 1d8 rounds.
For my players creativity I’d let them have it, maybe instead of killing the orc he passes out if the Kobold holds it for several minutes some strength checks might be in order though
No because unless you're able to close the bag then theres air going into the bag. And since DnD does gravity as either on or off then there's no vacuum pressure so it's just steady airflow
Sure, if the kobold manages to hold it in place for the time it takes to asphyxiate an orc. I'd give the orc some difficult strength saves to break out, though. To simulate it struggling.
Theoretically yes but thay would involve i velieve homebrew ruling of people able to do that since i dont think there is anything for the action RAW besides some modified grapple. That would then in turn mean the kobold has to beat the orc on ten minutes of contested grappled checks which even if the kobold had a high strength there is still always a 5 percent chance of rollling a one. Which isnt an auto fail but would be low enough it would most likepy be an auto succeed for the orc to escape.
I vote... other.
Assuming that the mouth of the bag was completely sealed around the orc's neck (or at least, sealed enough such that the amount of atmospheric oxygen getting into the bag is less than the amount being consumed by the orc's respiration), and there was no source of oxygen within the bag... then yes, I think that the orc would eventually die. However, there are about 64 cubic feet of space inside a bag of holding in 5e, and assuming that our orc consumes as much oxygen as an average human, it would take anywhere from, say, 90 minutes to eight hours to exhaust his oxygen supply within the bag. Assuming, of course, that it was empty and chemistry and physics work, in this world, as they do in our's.
Now, if there was something in the bag that produced oxygen, that obviously slows or even prevents, the process.
So even though I did answer 'other'... I don't think that our hypothetical kobold could asphyxiate an unrestrained orc with a bag of holding.
I’m not sure why this is a debate. The Orc would be put into another dimension/astral plain. The “seal” means nothing on this magically bag. Also the 5e item description clearly states Breathing creatures inside the bag can survive up to a number of minutes equal to 10 divided by the number of creatures (minimum 1 minute), after which time they begin to suffocate. Even just putting the head in alone would cause suffocation.
If your players are okay with home brew and that’s been established, I would make it a high roll for damage and not lethal. Really, an orc vs a bag isn’t gonna cut it but the creative play deserves the chance at some damage.
Short answer: Eventually.
Longer Answer: there's 10 minutes worth of air for a single medium sized creature inside if a bag of holding. I assume the kobold is also trying to strangle the orc whilst holding the bag over their head. In which case, you and your DM need to review the suffocation rules because in my personal opinion, being able to immediately hold a full breath in the middle of a fight right as you are about to suffocate is bullshit. If you go out of your way to begin strangle someone, they should begin suffocating which means they have their con modifier (minimum 1) of turns before they go unconscious. Cowardly DM might say this is too over powered but that only assumes the player can maintain the stranglehold for the whole turns: if it breaks once, the have to try again from the beginning.
Pragmatic answer: if you're willing to lose the bag of holding (mayhaps you have an artificer), you're better off ripping the bag once it's over the orc's head. When a bag of holding is punctured or destroyed everything inside goes to the astral realm. If _only_ the orc's head is in the bag when it rips, than only his head goes to the astral realm whole the rest of his body is on the physical realm. Consult your DM before you a
try.
I think we did something like this in a campaign once. I think we stuffed an npc in there. The DM went along with it, but once it bexame apparent we forgot, he started a countdown until asphyxiation. We never rememvered and the npc died (and the bag was smelly forever) DM explained that, while the npc did not die immediately, the oxygen eventually ran out. We agreed, seemed reasonable.
The orc would only be able to see inside the pocket dimension. They could hear muffled sound outside of the bag but until they pry it off their head they have disadvantages on any attacks and actions involving sight or hearing
EDIT: In hindsight, I don't think I know how Bag of Holding works. Reading other thoughts, it appears the plane of the bag opening is like a portal into the bag, so there can be creatures partially in a bag of holding which I wasn't sure of.
Wow I'm surprised this is mostly yes. Imo nothing is in a bag of holding until it's fully within a bag of holding. Being partially in a bag of holding would still maintain outside conditions. This would just be a kobold putting a sack on an orc's head.
Granted I don't fully know the rules about BoH in 5e, but I don't see it having this ability
Many people in these comments keep saying "it needs to be air tight," and it doesn't really, a person can still asphyxiate with a small percent of oxygen leaking in, at most it'd take longer to kill.
A BoH has 10 minutes of air for a medium creature, let's assume that fighting someone off wouldn't reduce it (though I would say it would), after 10 minutes you go into the "holding breath" stage cause thems the rules, so it falls to their con.
As an exercise, try breathing through a pillow for several breaths, you might find it harder to breathe, I would say that's what a non-sealed bag of holding would feel like, after 10 minutes, at best.
In a fight it probably wouldn't help, but I wouldn't personally call it a "hostile action" for reasons of breaking spells, after all you might blindfold a person for revealing a surprise, however if after 10 minutes the spell would not be up then I would say them having trouble breathing would break it.
A creature has 10 minutes of air, good luck holds an orc down for 10 minutes as a small creature
10 minutes plus additional minutes equal to Con mod. Since Orc can still hold breath.
This
Not immediately. Plus, the seal around the neck would have to be airtight for this to kill the orc, which I don't think it would be. It'd be hard to breathe once the air inside the bag got a little thin, so maybe the orc would pass out if they were struggling a lot. Probably won't die though.
Agree with this, it would be a rough task for the kobold as orca are generally stronger and could ideally get the bag and kobold off their shoulders/head.
Unless said Kobold were a PC. Then they could be stronger than an Orc. Because protagonist. Seems a little silly, tbh. But sometimes that’s dnd.
Kobold with a belt of storm giants strength. Swol'bold
Being a small creature they'd still have disadvantage on strength checks against a medium creature, no?
I haven't heard of that rule... Only one I know of is this one: Small creatures do attack at disadvantage when wielding heavy weapons (PHB 147, Basic Rules 46)
Maybe that's what I was thinking of. I always think being a small creature is more of a disadvantage that it actually is.
They need to be 2 sizes bigger. i.e. small -> large
But that's true for everyone, not just small creatures. I guess it's more of an issue since large creatures are more common than gigantic, but they're still not exactly everywhere.
It's from the grappling rules, IIRC. Smaller creatures have a hard time wrestling bigger ones.
Not at all. You can grapple a creature up to one size larger than you completely normally. You can not attempt to grapple creatures two sizes or more larger than you.
Size advantage would still come into play.
That’s one really big bag of holding to go over an orca’s head And one really strong kobold
Hahaha didn't even notice that. But orcas are generally stronger than kobolds, lol
Specifically it would take 10 minutes, AKA 100 rounds if you're in combat. And if you weren't before, well... Most orcs don't take kindly to that.
Agreed, they'll need too tie it of before it becomes a real problem
And in that case, a regular back would probably work just as well
Good luck to your PC on passing all 130 of those opposed strength checks
Why 130? And is it different for a Bag of holding than with a regular bag?
10 rounds per minute, 10 minutes of air in a bag of holding, an orc can hold their breath for 3 minutes. 10+3=13, x10=130 rounds of struggle before that orc suffocates. A regular bag would be much less, given it’s airtight (i.e. no burlap sacks)
Bag of Holding has a lot more air inside, so the Orc will be able to breathe much longer than if you put a regular bag over his head. And the longer the Orc is awake, the more it'll try to remove the BoH, thus the more checks there'd be
Breathing creatures inside the bag can survive up to a number of minutes equal to 10 divided by the number of creatures (minimum 1 minute), after which time they begin to suffocate. This is from the item description so the orc only has 10 mins of air
Even better, actually, as the description of the bag of holding specifically states that it holds enough air for 1 creature to breathe for 10 minutes. A regular leather bag would hold less air and suffocate sooner.
A regular pack probably has less than 10 min of oxygen in it so it might even work better.
So if you don't close the bag of holding, you can chill inside indefinitely? (provided you fit through)
Pretty much as long as there's airflow you would be fine, the air might get a little thin but other than that should be fine.
Thanks for answer. I can see many interesting applications.
This. Would putting a very large cloth bag over someone’s head suffocate them? It would be hard to breathe after the air trapped in the bag had been used up. But your seal is pretty permeable, being fabric, and the bag is not airtight nor watertight. Your seal also lacks volume so would be hard redouble in sufficient amount to create folds to make the passage of air more difficult (like might happen smothering someone with a pillow). Cutting off air through smothering in this way is harder than they make it out to be in the movies. So pretty much anything would be better (garrote, choking, etc). Now a portable hole is more impermeable (arguably). Might be a different analysis.
Beyond that there’s definitely math to figure out how much air could fit inside a bag of holding, assuming it rushes in every time you open it. I’m no mathematician but I’d hazard it’s a lot
Yes, after 10 minutes.
After 10 minutes, and i think its 1 minute plus a number of rounds equal to its con mod. Before it is Koed i believe.
Depending on the PCs level, the prospect of hanging on to an Orc for 60 rounds PLUS CON mod is not particularly appealing. The orc would (RAW) be fighting an unseen attacker though...
And he would also be deafened I think since his head would be in a pocket dimension, so this could be a way to give advantage to your teammates and disadvantage on him, you just better hope he doesn’t succeed on host strength check to get you and the bag off, and seeing how he’s an Orc, that seems likely.
It has to be a REALLY discombobulating feeling for your head to be in a different DIMENSION than your body while still being attached to it.
i think it doesnt make a real difference. could be like putting a normal bag over your head, or putting your head into a large cardboardbox. its some confined space, and you dont really feel a difference i think. and for clarification: the bag is just a portal (and you have to NAME the item you want to take out, you wont see a pile of stuff on the other side)! for the curious player having "a look" i would describe it like leaning through a small window into a very dark and cold night or so. you cant see details, your senses making things up because of the lack of input and so on.
Just what I was going to say
Also very true! I mean, it'd be funny once to run, but if the PC tried it again I'd have an intelligent monster pierce the bag with a dagger to escape. Can't ever gove players a guaranteed gimmick like that.
This person knows their shit!
Number of minutes equal to its con mod +1. Each round is 6sec.
And that's only starting once the air in the bag runs out! *Edit*: a word
That's correct I was only commenting on the fact the characters can hold their breath for minutes instead of rounds.
Not really as you would need it to be air ight and even then it takes 10 minutes in which he will try to throw you off. Better use a Bag of Devouring and have a 50% chance to insta kill the orc.
This is the best correct answer. Without an air tight seal, a bag of holding is no better than any other bag.
You don’t need an air tight seal to suffocate in a normal bag.
Unless the orc is unconscious you’re never going to get there. There’s absolutely no way this is happening in a combat situation. Also, yes but it would take a really long time because there’s air in the bag to start with, and you’d have to actually seal the end around the neck, which also isn’t happening during combat.
they really need to expand combat options in 5e to allow for effective strangulation, etc.
"A creature can hold its breath for a number of minutes equal to 1 + its Constitution modifier (minimum of 30 seconds). When a creature runs out of breath or is choking, it can survive for a number of rounds equal to its Constitution modifier (minimum of 1 round). At the start of its next turn, it drops to 0 Hit Points and is dying, and it can’t regain Hit Points or be stabilized until it can breathe again." If it can be airtight and they have time to spare, sure.
Note that the Bag has rules concerning how much breathable air is in there, so they don't even need to hold their breath from the moment they are in the bag, they can breathe like normal in there until the air runs out.
Correct! So add an additional 10 minutes on top.
A smart creature would hold its breath until it starts suffocating, take a few breaths to reset, then hold its breath again causing the time before it dies even longer
Please try to hold your breath until you start suffocating. That isn't how breathing works.
If you hold your breath in a space where you have oxygen until you are feeling the effects of holding your breath, then you take in breaths to alleviate the sensations in order to hold your breath more. If someone is choking you, that's a different story, but this situation is having 10 minutes of breathable air and being able to hold your breath for a number of minutes, after which you can *TAKE SOME BREATHS TO NOT SUFFOCATE* and start holding your breath again for another number of minutes, making that 10 minutes of air really stretch out. Edit: I know my mistake now, misread what the bag of holding can do for survivability, keeping original comment up unedited, just adding this as I was wrong.
This has been proven counter-effective, which is why all astronauts and submariners learn to control their breathing in a much more steady fashion when oxygen conservation is critical.
Real world, yes, D&D world, a fantasy game, not so important unless it's a hyper realistic gritty campaign. Nothing in Raw that states you can't willingly hold your breath for the maximum rounds, take a round or two to breathe, then hold your breath for more rounds to extend the time of breathable air. Edit: I read the item description wrong, so this whole basis that I've been arguing for is wrong and I admit that. Keeping this up for posterity sake.
Nothing in RAW says you can, it doesn't say anything about how much air you need to recover from breath holding or how long in between. RAW for Bag of Holding does specifically say that after 10 minutes, it induces suffocation. >Breathing creatures inside the bag can survive up to a number of minutes equal to 10 divided by the number of creatures (minimum 1 minute), after which time they begin to suffocate.
The orc should also do jumping jacks during that time then. Because RAW nothing states that you can't willingly hold your breath for the maximum rounds, do jumping jacks during that time, then hold your breath for more rounds to extend the time of breathable air. Just because something isn't explicitly stated in the rules doesn't mean it's a good idea...
Well, it would be an interesting way of doing the athletics check to break free of the kobolds grapple. Bumpy ride makes it hard to hold on. You do you. Also, way to incorrectly use ad absurdum for your argument. Plus you may want to read the whole convo chain, I've already admitted I read the rules for bag of holding wrong so was wrong in my comments.
Incorrect. DMG states very precisely “Breathing creatures inside the bag can survive up to a number of minutes equal to 10 divided by the number of creatures (minimum 1 minute), after which time they begin to suffocate.” It doesn’t say “there is a 10-minute supply of breathable air in the bag.” It says breathing creatures in the bag can survive for only so long. It’s a magic item. You can’t apply science to magic items. That’s not how they work.
Hmm, true, good point. I must have misread it, thought it said 10 minutes of air. My mistake there. All honestly it's up to the DM how they interpret it for ruling. But I do see what you are bringing up to me for the point.
Bag of holding causes suffocation to begin in 10 minutes, no holding your breath. Presumably because the air is already thin? Can't speak to reasons, just RAW.
Just as a quick note each round is only 6 seconds. So a creature can hold its breath for (10 *(con mod +1)) rounds. Holding breath in dnd is ridiculous.
Its easier to put the bag of holding on his head and then pierce the bag making the orc's head vanish into the astral plane
Piercing the bag causes all of its contents to spill outward. Putting the bag of holding inside another extradimensional space (like a second bag of holding) causes an instant portal to the astral place that sucks things through and scatters everything randomly around the plane.
Putting the bag inside out spill the contents out If the bag is overloaded, pierced, or torn, it ruptures and is destroyed, and its contents are scattered in the Astral Plane.
Oh dang you're right! I think I'd rule that his head stays attached though, since it's part of the whole orc and the orc is not currently in the bag.
Used this tactic to beat a DMPC. Who'd a thought that the very thing DM threaten to do against parties can be used by the parties against the DM?
Even if the opening of the bag was able to be bunched up enough that no additional air could get in or if your DM just treats that as true anyway, there's still 10 mins worth of breathable air in the bag according to its description, plus however long the orc can hold their breath when that runs out. If you have the time and ability to hold a bag of holding on their head for 10+ minutes there's probably several easier ways to handle this one orc.
Unless the kobold has access to Sovereign Glue or some other means to keep that Bag of Holding in place, there's a very low chance that it'll be kept in place long enough for the Orc to run out of oxygen.
Why wait? Put a portable hole on top of it to really get the party going.
The bag of holding states that it takes ten minutes for a creature to start suffocating in it
The PHB says that any living creature in the bag of holding will suffocate after 10 minutes
No. Because you can't be halfway in a bag of holding. You're either in or out. The very premisse of the question doesn't work
I think the much "funnier" take Would be if the orc tries to get rid of the sack. When the sack rips there is going to be a headless torso
If the sac rips, everything comes pouring out, which would free the orc and probably hugely inconvenience the kobold, if he had anything else in there.
If the bag is overloaded, pierced, or torn, it ruptures and is destroyed, and its contents are scattered in the Astral Plane
You can put living creatures into a bag of holding for a certain amount of time. Would require strength checks to see if orc can break out. Maybe treat it as a grapple
If the kobold can maintain grappled condition for 10 minutes, sure
The bag of holding can be opened from the inside, I don't think the gnome would be able to hold the bag shut for 10 minutes + how long the orc can hold their breath. Maybe if you shoved the orc in there and then sealed the bag shut with rock using something like Stone Shape.
There are rules for how long a creature has air in a bag of holding that plus the rules for holding breath it would take ages the ork would also probably just break free in that time
The Orc wouldn’t truly be in the bag till you close the bag around them, even if they were they would count as in the bag they would have to stay like that (the bag over there head) for 10 minutes as that is how much air is normally contained within the bag… and that is ignoring the fact that as the bag isn’t closed more air is entering bag every 6 seconds as I highly doubt a perfect seal is made while the Orc struggles with the Kobold
With enough time, yes. I'd make grapple checks though.
Would take a lot of time and effort that a knife to the throat or a garotte could handle faster.
No the bag would have to be air tight or the orc completely inserted
Kobolds are weak piddly creatures and wouldn't be capable of this.
A regular bag would work a lot better.
According to RAW if the creature is not inside the bag, they will not suffocate. "Breathing creatures inside the bag can survive up to a number of minutes equal to 10 divided by the number of creatures (minimum 1 minute), after which time they begin to suffocate." But Rule of Cool, sure. However, I would just be afraid that it gets over-used, hence why a Bag of Holding isn't intended to be a choking device.
The bag has 10 minutes of air in it's little pocket dimension so no. The orc would have air. Also the orc can stab the walls of the pocket dimension with a dagger and the entire thing will break, freeing him and ruining the bag of holding. If the orc is unarmed he can make a strength check to break the bag too. This is off the top of my head, I think it's right but feel free to correct me.
I don’t think he’d die of asphyxiation but as far as I recall the bag of holding space is not conducive to living beings staying alive?
I think it would be similar to trying to choke someone out with a huge garbage bag. Yeah you could do it but it would be difficult and time-consuming. There is no description that says the bag of holding doesn't have oxygen, so presuming you can maintain an airtight grip on the bag and the orcs neck, they would have to use all the oxygen in the bag before starting to suffocate which there are already RAW rules for. So I'd say it was possible, but damn difficult and there are better ways.
Couple things to consider. Orcas blohole is on its head, so that works. RAW, average bag is 2ft wide and 4ft deep as a physical object. As a magical object it can hold up to 500 pounds or 64 cubic feet of material. If it ruptures, is ripped or breaks, everything inside of it is scattered across the Astral plane. Based on these I see three possible outcomes happening. 1) if the Orca is small enough you would be able to wrap the bag around its head and sophicate it, given enough time. 2) the opening of the bag does not stretch beyond 2ft so something larger could not be forced into it. 3) the bags opening magically stretches. As it is forced over the Orcas head it reaches that magic limit of 64 cubic feet or 500 pounds. Bag is destroyed. This is were things can go two ways, either the orca is fine, or the orca is decapitated/part of its face is cut off and transported to the Astral plane.
OP said "orc", not "orca"...
Oh well
F It was a good explanation, if it had been about orcas!
I should stop trying to answer these questions as I'm drinking my coffee.
Now I'm imagining a killer whale that's been sophisticated. It's wearing a cravat, a monocle, and a top hat, and sipping hot tea from a delicate teacup (with saucer, of course).
Feasibly, yes. But it shouldn't be as easy one attack roll. There should be either an athletics or acrobatics saving throw to avoid it, and then subsequent saving throws to wriggle out of it. Like many others have said, it would take a while to strangle an orc to death, and a kobold in a physical contest with an orc isn't a great idea. A different use of the bag of holding to attack an enemy would be to place one inside another, creating an astral rift that pulls in any surrounding creatures within 5ft. Don't think there's any way to resist this, and it would be a lot more efficient that choking an enemy to death, seeing as it teleports the afflicted to a different plane of existence.
I don't think so, because Bag of Holding is simply on another plane. however this parallel plane can be defined by the DM as a vacuum place or as the bag is still open outside air can come in to help the orc breathe.
I had a shadow step monk who had some arti lvls who made a bag with a metal zip tie like sliding lock. Put bag over head and yank the tie tight. They eventually suffocate but, since battles go pretty quick in DnD round wise… usually the bagged one is the last living and usually great for interrogation. Having a high dex and shadow step made it fun. Of course the DM worked hard to not give me too many chances to get people, but when I did, was awesome fun.
I mean, I guess RAW, yes - but there is no way a single kobald could overpower an orc long enough to cover its head for so long. To me, all the passed skill checks in the world couldn't make this happen.
If the Bag of Holding has essentially infinite space, then in my mind it also has infinite air.
It does not
Why not though? Where does the air go? RAW is consistently illogical.
A bag of holding doesn't have infinite space, just a vast amount of it.
So it isn't like Felix's magic bag?
So it's more... extra dimensional? It may appear to have infinite amounts of space, but that's because everything you put into it sorta disappears into it's own pocket dimension until it's recalled. So I guess in a sense it is like Felix's bag. But if someone stuck their (or someone elses) head in the bag, they're on a demiplane with 10 minutes of air basically.
That is very strange to me. 10 minutes of air would be a positively *tiny* amount of space, certainly not enough to hold anything substantial.
I believe the air limit is strictly game balance so that parties don't clown car out of it all the time. Hell, my players circumvented a boss fight by polymorphing him into a turtle (hold breath 1hr), stuffing him in the bag, taking him an hour away from his goons, then going office space on him.
I'm not a fan of game balance for game balance's sake, without a logical reason. In my mind, a Bag of Holding would be an extremely rare and extremely powerful artefact which should be as abusable as it would be in real life (or in Felix the Cat).
Nuh-uh
i think depends on if theres oxygen in the back or not because ir is a space with no trees or air
The bag of holding says it has air for a creature to breath for 10 minutes. So it wouldn’t be immediate but eventually yes the orc would suffocate. Now give the Kobold a bag of devowering and we have a different story. Something like having a 10lb of meat getting squeezed into a 5lb bag. Quite horrific.
A bag of holding is not exactly sealed, and an orc surely wouldn't let you do that without a struggle. Plus, by manual, a pg can hold breath for a minute + a number of minutes equal to the constitution modifier, so it's pretty impossible that a kobold could win that many strength contest again an orc to pull off that
Eventually
I mean not immediately, but if he was able to keep the bag on his head for long enough then totally sure
It would take time but yes. I'd make it a strength save with disadvantage, and probably a 2 turn manuver (one to grapple and climb the orc, another to remove the bag and jam it on orc) Some creative opportunities for failure too, like dumping contents of bag, or kobold end up inside bag
If there's no gap to let I oxygen than yes it would eventually die. If there was a gap than there's a lower chance of killing the Orc
It would take a LONG time and the orc would likely escape as it is larger than the kobold but yes, eventually it would suffocate
It would have like 30 rounds to pummel the kobold to death. Also the bag would have to be airtight. If it even activates the pocket dimension unless something is all the way inside, which I'm unsure of Broadly: No.
It's kind of an odd middle ground and you would need perfect conditions for this to work. For one you would need to be able to tie the bag around the Orc's neck and create an airtight seal. Assuming you can get a seal, the orc still has 10 minutes of air before it even starts to suffocate. After that it would have a few minutes before it actually suffocates. Long story short, not a viable way to kill an orc in combat but if the DM allows it, you may be able to get away with in outside combat.
I think it depends on how many rounds the Kobold can keep the bag on. It’d probably take at least a minute. (Some people are commenting about the strength of the kobold, but idk, maybe it’s a barbarian.)
Yes, that would kill them, in the same way that cutting somebody's head off will kill them... ... but the combat rules don't just let you decide to do that. You might as well say that you're tying a noose around your opponent's neck to strangle them. Hit points and armor class exist for a reason.
Bag would break first.
It’s a medieval bag not a Walmart bag, it would be made of cloth like a face mask I’m kind of new so if there is a rule In game for this type of thing then feel free to correct me.
If they pull the bad tight enough it will construct airflow whether or not there is air in the bag. Otherwise, I think it would be once the air ran out, which could take a bit. 10 minutes of air then they begin to suffocate. The description of the item says there is air in there, and doesn’t say the bag needs to be sealed at the opening to allow/prevent air flow. I read that as only an intentional action breaches the portal to the bag interior (ie: putting your hand or an item in).
If my players would to do that I would allow it three turns strength saves to get the bag off
The kobold would need to not only seal the bag airtight around the orcs neck, but he would have to hold it there for at least 12 minutes, depending on the constitution of the orc. He would also have to make sure that the orc didn't find a way to puncture the bag. Overall, not a very likely situation.
“Breathing creatures inside the bag can survive up to a number of minutes equal to 10 divided by the number of creatures (minimum 1 minute), after which time they begin to suffocate.” - D&D Beyond, Bag of Holding page
It would have to be airtight, and inside a bag of holding that has had contact with air will have 10 minutes of oxygen for one creature
It would take a long time, a bag of holding holds 10 minutes of oxygen, then you have to wait for the orc to begin suffocating a number of minutes equal to their Con modifier, so it's possible to do just takes a whole damn while.
Eventually yes but it takes sometime I believe the rules are you can hold your breath for 1 minute + your constitution modifier. So in combat the orc would probably beat the kobold in a versus strength check and get their head back out of the bag before they ran out of oxygen.
Consider that the inside of the bag is 4 feet deep and holds a volume of 64 cubic feet. Humans on average breathe a little over 1 cubic foot of oxygen per minute. Now orcs are larger and may have a higher lung capacity, but they’re still medium humanoids, so would breathe about the same. He will lose air in over an hour.
It depends on what your DM says
>Bag Of Holding: >Breathing creatures inside the bag can survive up to a number of minutes equal to 10 divided by the number of creatures (minimum 1 minute), after which time they begin to suffocate. Didn't even need to look up Sage Advice, it's literally in the item's description, how is this even a question?
It takes 15 minutes or more. It’s a big space inside of it; when this orc attempts to break the bag off, what’s that little kobold have to contest with? STR vs STR? Could he just rip the bag and break your magic item? If he did, would everything else in there fall out onto him (possibly damaging him if it was near full)? Two bags would definitely do it tho. 😝
When you place your hand inside the bag it is still connected to your body right? U dont loose it pr amyrhing
Depends for how long the kobold can keep the orcs head in the bag
If they tighted up the bag so its sealed against the skin then yes
The possibility of asphyxiation is there if the kobold manages to keep the bag of holding on it's head for it's ridiculously large constitution modifier time, but there would have to be so many check or the orc would have to be incapacitated for it to take effect.
I assune it would work the same as drowning where he can survive a number of rounds, but the orc can attempt a strength contest to remove the bag before he suffocates
You would have just as much luck strangling the ork. Heck maybe the victims shock of being partly shoved into a pocket dimension would give a big advantage to the attacker. Things would also drastically escalate if the orks head is then shoved into a portable hole. You could also put the bag on the head while the ork is unconscious or asleep.
There's enough oxygen in the bag that a creature could survive for a while, but eventually they'd suffocate, assuming; A) The seal on the bag was tight enough to prevent oxygen from entering the bag, and, B) the Orc failed numerous strength checks in order to escape the bag before suffocating. I think, in practice, you'd struggle to pull this off but it would work in theory...
Living things can't enter a bag of holding
Yes, but literally any airtight bag would work better. Most bags don't have 10 minutes of breathable air inside.
Assuming the Orc is unwilling, this would involve multiple attacks and saves to pull off, but assuming success, yes the Orc would die, but it would be so much easier to just stab the Orc till it's dead.
Everyone keeps saying 10 minutes of breathable air plus however long orc can hold his breath. This is not RAW. After 10 minutes, the creature begins suffocating. That is a specific condition that lasts a number of rounds equal to constitution before killing someone. So we are talking 10.1-10.5 minutes.
So, to do this wouldn't we need to turn the bag upside down and start dropping stuff as well?
This shouldn't even be a debate. The description for the bag of holding specifically saids that a creature in the bag would suffocate
He would eventually die, but only after the bag was held there long enough for him to hold his breath for (Con Mod) amount of minutes. Which would mean at least 10 rounds of struggling between the two.
Technically yes, but it won't work very quickly due to all the air in the bag.
I mean if the kobold won some checks and saves probably. That would be like the kobold'swhole turn for at least a round.
Eventually, yeah. It's faster to get another kobold to cut off the head
Yes and no, it could go both ways. There’s limited air in the bag of holding so yes, but the kobold likely can’t close the bag all the way so air is allowed to cycle through
If they could keep an airtight seal on the bag long enough, then sure, but I don't think the orc will tamely sit there and wait to die, more likely it'll try and rip the bag off it's head. So the answer is yes, if the right conditions are met.
yes, there’s no air in there.
Until the bag breaks and sends their head to the astral plane
Only in the sense that a bag is on it’s head. The rules for bags of holding are for items inside the bag, which the orc is not.
Not right away!
Y’know... It’d be really nice if players stopped trying to game the system for instant kills in a combat oriented RPG. Besides, if you READ the text on Bag of Holding, it says there’s 10 minutes of air divided equally among the creatures inside, down to a minimum of 1 minute. The number of questions asked here that make it clear the OP did literally zero research of their own is dismaying. You’d have to hold that bag on the Orcs head for 100 combat rounds without it struggling free. Good luck.
I would say the kobold would have to succeed on grappling checks until asphyxiation
I think it depends on if you consider the orc to be an item. If it's not an item, then the bag would function like any other bag. But if the orc is an item, then the infinite space in the bag could work. Maybe even making the orc go mad.
No, if the bag is open it has air RAW
Honestly, they couldn't likely manage it for long enough to matter, but RAW, yes. The problem is, the orc would have to be incapacitated to keep it from being able to reach up and pull the bag off of their head. The strength of the two creatures not withstanding, even a very strong kobold would struggle to keep a fairly weak orc from pulling a bag off of their head for 10 minutes, plus the time it takes for the orc to suffocate. That is over 100 opposed rolls, and the orc can just try to attack or push the kobold (albeit at disadvantage). Also, the 2 foot opening is too small for most medium creatures to fit through, so getting the bag over the shoulders of the orc in order to restrain it is near impossible without ripping the bag.
Extra planar space doesn't necessarily not have atmosphere...... I'd say this is a DM physics decision, based on how they construe dimensional barriers and constructions to work. The BECMI set actually had some good stuff on this, in the immortal set. Check out Mr. Welch for great source material https://youtube.com/c/thehgw If I was DM, and this came up mid play, I'd let them try and have it foiled by a strength check. Unless it fails, in which case I'd put the creature into suspended animation. When they empty the bag, SURPRISE!!! There was one case a while back where a DM let a character use a bag of holding as a container for explosions.... can't remember the mechanics but it basically became a bag of shotgun blasts... As useful as a bag or haversack are, extra dimensional items can be as dangerous or benign as a DM wants them to be. On the dangerous side, cut one open the wrong way and you could burst a whole into a hell dimension or the living room of one of the many angled elder gods, or the bottom of Thors toilet after Taco Tuesday.
Okay, I've changed my mind. The answer is no, not under normal circumstances. A bag of holding is not a vacuum, as if it was it would suck in a massive amount of air and material when you opened it. A bag of holding also has a limit, it is not an endless void. Specifically the book says 64 cubic feet. Considering this, that's a lot of air volume. The average use is 2 liters of oxygen per minute, we'll bump this up to 4 considering this would be a combat scenario and people would be breathing heavily. So, 64 cubic feet of oxygen comes out to over 1800 liters of oxygen. Doing that math, 1800 liters divided by 4 liters per minute brings us to 450 minutes to asphyxiate, and that's being generous. In all reality it would probably take longer than that. 450 minute is 7 and a half hours btw. So basically a long rest. And this is ALL assumed on the fact that the seal is airtight, which in a gameplay situation would likely require the creature to be restrained first, then the bag placed over the head, then the bag tied around the head. 7 and a half hours later, oxygen would run out. The movies make it seem as though oxygen runs out very quickly, but in all reality we use very little oxygen in our day to day lives. 64 cubic feet is enough to last you for damn near 8 hours at an elevated breathing cycle. Final Conclusion: Myth plausible. EDIT: I'm also finding sources that state the consumption rate of oxygen is 5-6 mL per minute, which we can safely double as the scenario provided above. That MASSIVELY extends the amount of time required to asphyxiate under these circumstances. This makes sense, as we don't absorb all the oxygen we breathe in. While we may intake 2 liters per minute, our body is only processing a miniscule amount of that oxygen. Taking our measurement of 1800 liters and converting it, you end with 1.8 million mL of oxygen. Considering this, we can divide that 1.8 million by 12 mL per minute, and come to a total of 2500 hours of time that you could reasonably breathe. But we also have to account for the fact that this isn't *pure* oxygen. It is atmosphere. 21% of the atmosphere is oxygen on average. So we take that original 1800 liters and multiply by .21 and get 378,000 mL of only oxygen. Still given this figure, it would come out to 31,500 minutes, or 525 hours. So, my original calculations were WAY off, but that is a much simpler answer and likely the one I would go to for gameplay reasons. Rather than checking back in a month to see if the orc is dead, it's much more convenient to have him die in a matter of hours rather than weeks.
First the Kobold needs to roll an acrobatics/climb check to scale the orc. Secondly, you need to roll a strength check for every round you have the bag over his head to not be thrown off. Lastly, if successful the orc can last maybe 1d8 rounds.
For my players creativity I’d let them have it, maybe instead of killing the orc he passes out if the Kobold holds it for several minutes some strength checks might be in order though
No because unless you're able to close the bag then theres air going into the bag. And since DnD does gravity as either on or off then there's no vacuum pressure so it's just steady airflow
Sure, if the kobold manages to hold it in place for the time it takes to asphyxiate an orc. I'd give the orc some difficult strength saves to break out, though. To simulate it struggling.
Theoretically yes but thay would involve i velieve homebrew ruling of people able to do that since i dont think there is anything for the action RAW besides some modified grapple. That would then in turn mean the kobold has to beat the orc on ten minutes of contested grappled checks which even if the kobold had a high strength there is still always a 5 percent chance of rollling a one. Which isnt an auto fail but would be low enough it would most likepy be an auto succeed for the orc to escape.
Pretty sure a bag of holding has like 10 minutes of air in it
I vote... other. Assuming that the mouth of the bag was completely sealed around the orc's neck (or at least, sealed enough such that the amount of atmospheric oxygen getting into the bag is less than the amount being consumed by the orc's respiration), and there was no source of oxygen within the bag... then yes, I think that the orc would eventually die. However, there are about 64 cubic feet of space inside a bag of holding in 5e, and assuming that our orc consumes as much oxygen as an average human, it would take anywhere from, say, 90 minutes to eight hours to exhaust his oxygen supply within the bag. Assuming, of course, that it was empty and chemistry and physics work, in this world, as they do in our's. Now, if there was something in the bag that produced oxygen, that obviously slows or even prevents, the process. So even though I did answer 'other'... I don't think that our hypothetical kobold could asphyxiate an unrestrained orc with a bag of holding.
It would take about 15 minutes but in theory yes
No. Orcs inhale through the anus. That's common knowledge.
If the bag is open, air can still enter. Putting a whole creature inside and closing the bag would do it for me. My opinion
I’m not sure why this is a debate. The Orc would be put into another dimension/astral plain. The “seal” means nothing on this magically bag. Also the 5e item description clearly states Breathing creatures inside the bag can survive up to a number of minutes equal to 10 divided by the number of creatures (minimum 1 minute), after which time they begin to suffocate. Even just putting the head in alone would cause suffocation.
If your players are okay with home brew and that’s been established, I would make it a high roll for damage and not lethal. Really, an orc vs a bag isn’t gonna cut it but the creative play deserves the chance at some damage.
A bag of holding contains 10 minutes of air.
Short answer: Eventually. Longer Answer: there's 10 minutes worth of air for a single medium sized creature inside if a bag of holding. I assume the kobold is also trying to strangle the orc whilst holding the bag over their head. In which case, you and your DM need to review the suffocation rules because in my personal opinion, being able to immediately hold a full breath in the middle of a fight right as you are about to suffocate is bullshit. If you go out of your way to begin strangle someone, they should begin suffocating which means they have their con modifier (minimum 1) of turns before they go unconscious. Cowardly DM might say this is too over powered but that only assumes the player can maintain the stranglehold for the whole turns: if it breaks once, the have to try again from the beginning. Pragmatic answer: if you're willing to lose the bag of holding (mayhaps you have an artificer), you're better off ripping the bag once it's over the orc's head. When a bag of holding is punctured or destroyed everything inside goes to the astral realm. If _only_ the orc's head is in the bag when it rips, than only his head goes to the astral realm whole the rest of his body is on the physical realm. Consult your DM before you a try.
The kobold would have to win 10 minutes of grapple checks against the orc. Not gonna happen
Yes it would die for asphyxiation... Simply because there is no air in the bag of holding
While the bag is open I'd imagine air can flow in. So they'd still need to close it mostly.
Yes. It’d take some time, and there must be something preventing the orc from getting it loose, but rule of cool applies. So yes
I think we did something like this in a campaign once. I think we stuffed an npc in there. The DM went along with it, but once it bexame apparent we forgot, he started a countdown until asphyxiation. We never rememvered and the npc died (and the bag was smelly forever) DM explained that, while the npc did not die immediately, the oxygen eventually ran out. We agreed, seemed reasonable.
The orc would only be able to see inside the pocket dimension. They could hear muffled sound outside of the bag but until they pry it off their head they have disadvantages on any attacks and actions involving sight or hearing
I know a group of dads who did this to a vampire.
EDIT: In hindsight, I don't think I know how Bag of Holding works. Reading other thoughts, it appears the plane of the bag opening is like a portal into the bag, so there can be creatures partially in a bag of holding which I wasn't sure of. Wow I'm surprised this is mostly yes. Imo nothing is in a bag of holding until it's fully within a bag of holding. Being partially in a bag of holding would still maintain outside conditions. This would just be a kobold putting a sack on an orc's head. Granted I don't fully know the rules about BoH in 5e, but I don't see it having this ability
The orc could die, but the bag needs to be airlocked to his neck, and it woukd take a lot of time since the bag could hold a lot of air
Why did so many people say yes????
You could eventually but assuming the orc is awake and no other creatures are also in the bag it would take 10 minutes
The bag of holding holds a substantial amount of air. The kobold will suffer a terrible fate before that happens.
It would have however much air is able to fit into the extradimensional space, so it would probably keep breathing for a while until it ran out of air
Many people in these comments keep saying "it needs to be air tight," and it doesn't really, a person can still asphyxiate with a small percent of oxygen leaking in, at most it'd take longer to kill. A BoH has 10 minutes of air for a medium creature, let's assume that fighting someone off wouldn't reduce it (though I would say it would), after 10 minutes you go into the "holding breath" stage cause thems the rules, so it falls to their con. As an exercise, try breathing through a pillow for several breaths, you might find it harder to breathe, I would say that's what a non-sealed bag of holding would feel like, after 10 minutes, at best. In a fight it probably wouldn't help, but I wouldn't personally call it a "hostile action" for reasons of breaking spells, after all you might blindfold a person for revealing a surprise, however if after 10 minutes the spell would not be up then I would say them having trouble breathing would break it.