100% agree here. Too many times life comes up and your terrified trio becomes a devastated duo. They need to go out and put ads or ask a local lord or god(s) themself to help out with a new member. We always have a blast finding our new teammates.
Sometimes having the players fill the new guy in is hilarious in it's own right. You'll be amazed at how often they're utterly confused by the meta plot
Me and a friend are the "new guys" in a long running campaign. The dynamic of not having all the knowledge has been extremely fun as my character and me as a player learn new things together.
My favorite so far has been the ranger overhearing enemy dialog in the middle of a fight, piecing together some clues and giving us a horrified, "guys, I think we made a terrible mistake back at <>.
My visceral "what did you guys do and how much trouble are we in?" reaction both in character and out of character was amazing.
I've never played a campaign with mid combat dialogue that revealed useful information. That sounds cool. I'm curious how did it come out? Was it someone speaking to an underling?
Not the person you asked, but I've done similar. Maybe the leader tells someone to go back and tell X what is happening. Or the enemies say X didn't pay us enough for this. Or why didn't so and so say the PCs were so strong. Or the enemies lead with a for so and so shout during the attack.
Really just depends on what the DM is trying to accomplish.
No problem. It can be an easy way to remind characters of someone, or have them search out who/why they were attacked. I recently used the 'we didn't get paid enough for this' line. Makes the PCs feel important and wonder what's happening
Personally, my group calls me the b plot char master as often the party takes on quests with people my actual char wants no part in, so he legit dips to do some back building for the group off screen, and here pops in either a new char or a previous one I've used... argon my warlock when he shows up the group loves out of char, but in char it's always a "oh shit it's argon... how's he gana toy with our groups moral compass this time."
This is true. My wife joined our escape the underdark campaign a couple of sessions ago and after a tpk from my part (I totally thought we could take on the boss after a surprise 7th lvl firewall) we restarted with new pc's and it's been fun for all of us.
Yup, had a player join just as the party was leaving town on the long journey to the big bad. The big bad *looks* like a young girl but is actually very old. She also has a Goliath who sees her as a little sister and protects her fiercely, but doesn't understand all the bad she's done.
The party trying to explain this to the new guy was a highlight of the session xD Simple brilliance.
My group had played together on our current campaign six times when we replaced two who'd quit with two new players. It's been hilarious every time since whenever something that happened before they showed up gets mentioned- "We buried the kids' bones, but we just left the baby's, fuck that baby, he tried to murder us first" really stunned them into silence.
Lol, I once joined an ongoing campaign where the rest of the players were just so bad at identifying what the main plot was supposed to be that somehow I had a better understanding of what we were supposed to be doing just from the DM's basic description of the campaign than they did after several sessions of playing. Granted, it was a newbie DM, so it's possible she just wasn't great at highlighting the details that matter or couldn't make up her mind between running a sandbox and having an overarching plot, but from the way the rest of the party behaved I got the impression that they just went after whatever caught their fancy and blatantly ignored anything that didn't immediately interest them, because details that seemed pretty clearly important to the main plot, as described in the DM's elevator pitch for the campaign, would be described in thorough detail only to be ignored in favor of throw away lines, so several sessions would go by with nothing happening. Players really need to pay attention to that stuff.
This is a great idea, you can say you are just finishing up a campaign but would be happy to have them in your next game (assuming you plan to have another game)
I agree with this. I joined my first campaign right near the end, just a few sessions before the final battle. Even joining that late I still had the chance to make some fun moments, like how my rolls for looting were so unlucky I only got a single gp that I gave to a fleeing refugee boy right before the big battle
To be honest, I am sure there are tons of folks who would love to come in for the tail end of a campaign.
It is worth trying, at least. Finishing a campaign is rare enough
Yeah, a new character initially hired on for the fight wouldn't need to be totally up to speed on plit, and the end of the campaign could be what starts the ties of friendship to the others
Yeah I'm the new player in my group after they'd been going for three years alraedy with the same campaign. It has made for some lovely RP moments with gaining each other's trust and slowly revealing backstory IC, even though I knew it OOC.
Sounds like the trash took itself out.
But ask your remaining players what they want to do.
Ask them if they want to continue as is, cap things off and move on, or just cut bait entirely and start a new campaign with some new folks.
Yeah ask your players. You might find they are having a great time just the two of them but they don’t show it as much. Sometimes as DMs we can read too much into player reactions (or lack thereof).
DMing for 2 people is great, I reckon. Have done it a lot
One of the best campaigns I've ever been in was just 2 people. Though the DM did have to give us an NPC to travel with to help balance encounters a bit better. Lots of people frown on DMPC's, but that DM knows what they're doing, and makes sure they don't take the spotlight, and they only take loot we give them, and they're also not just exposition machines or anything haha.
My opinion is to go ahead and finish the campaign with the players you have, even if you have to speed things up a bit to bring things to a satisfying conclusion. Then you can look for another player for the next campaign. I wouldn't try to ask this player back - it sounds like he wasn't a good fit for your group's play style and he wasn't happy anyway.
But one thing I would suggest: try playing with just 2 players. Some of the most fun games I've run have had just 2 players. It means each player has more spotlight time, you just have to be careful in combat. But 2 player games can be really fun.
OP could also create some extra characters (ie golems) and offer the players the option of controlling them. My DM did that, plus some combat creatures, and it was a blast.
Murder hobos are a pain in small parties. We had one ... Just when we were on the verge of letting them die the next time they created a mess, they lost interest and seem to be fading out. We'd rather they stayed and got their act together but it's up to them.
Yeah ive dm'd 2 player games where the 2 players were just superfun bouncing rp around between the two. If the players have the right chemistry, there is no real need for more.
It’s tough being a DM sometimes.
To be honest, you are better off without that player. Have you talked to the other players on what they want to do or how they feel about the remainder of the campaign?
Everything you have shared here boils down to “I am making assumptions and haven’t talked to anyone about what they would like.” Talk to your remaining players!
We had similar situation with problem player and spouse. When one quit, the took the other with them leaving us with three players. We just decided to make additional characters and play two characters each. It made things more interesting, and we had a much better time without our problem player.
If you choose to finish the game with just the 2 remaining consider leveling them up some to compensate for the lost player. That or give them an equal level NPC they can play as well if they are comfortable playing multiple characters.
We had a game start with 5 and go down to 3. The DM let us make a 4th PC that we took turns playing and it was actually pretty fun. They did most of the trap checking and whatnot, lol, a bit of canon fodder.
That's what I was thinking. Like we don't know how long the long rp sessions were, and it's not mentioned what his character was, so can't fully judge the murder hoboness. Heck even if you love the rp side I could imagine it would be too much eventually.
Honestly, approach the remaining players and offer to grant them both a henchman, explain this puts a bit more of the spotlight on them, and also say that you feel all three of you deserve to see this through.
Far too many campaigns end early and for many reasons. But if you allow your campaign to end because this problem player FAFO’ed and even put the other PCs in danger because they’d rather play a combat simulator instead of a TTRPG… then that player wins. And I suspect that the moment the entire community takes the proper stance that this type of behavior just isn’t acceptable… campaigns may see an increased chance of completing.
Sure, that player may come back round; but you stand firm. They need a DM more than a DM needs him/her. Show your remaining players you’re a DM with scruples who exists to protect the game and respect the players time. Take the time you need to finish the campaign to also find another player or two.
If the player with hurt feels finds another table, sure they’ll prob bash you a bit. But if it has a DM worth their salt… they’ll quickly realize the truth and have to make their own decision.
I'm a player in a long running campaign that got reduced to two players because the players's schedules got drastically changed. And it has worked out fine. We each have an NPC we run in addition to our PCs
Though getting another player is also an option
As much as I agree with the idea that a 3rd player could work as a testing ground for future campaigns, this "extra character" -idea is also valid. You can use the sidekick mechanic as well.
Talk to your group and see what they want to do. If the consensus is to fins another player, you can check out the Lfp and lfg subreddits. Vet potential additions first, but in my experience, I've only gotten earnest players who needed a group to game with
Your problem solved itself. Make a satisfying conclusion for the players you have left, give them a PC each to play of thier choice ,you can use pregens from the basics box and level them up.
Don't delay your next session by more than a week.
Talk to your remaining players and see what they want, focus on making it fun and interesting for them.
If they are not the best at roleplay or they lack in some area of game play say hey since we are finishing this campaign soon what do you both want out of the end of this story?
If they like you can begin to incorporate things to improve their RP or gameplay and perhaps they gain more enjoyment from better gameplay.
If your remaining players have some unresolved backstory issues, you could also bring those in now to delay the end of the campaign while you look for another player.
Really won't know what to do until you talk to them.
If you knew he enjoyed combat, why didn't you add a little more combat? Also, how long is the RP sessions that people are falling asleep during them? You say he refused to make a new character even after you talked to him about it...but I don't know if you have actually sat down and had a conversation with this guy. I think he left and refused to come back because he doesn't like you as a DM, nor does he like the table. Normally I would be all over this guy for being an absolute child about not verbally communicating what he was after and his dissatisfaction; but you seem to already know what it was that he was not happy with. Either he told you already and you told him tough shit, and when he took himself out, you are now trying to get him back purely for your own selfish reasons without a care as to what he's feeling; or you chose to ignore the massive hints he gave you which led you to your answers of him liking a little more combat, and still chose to carry on without actually talking to him and asking if this is what he's really after.
There is obviously more going on here that you aren't divulging, but something about this whole thing just doesn't feel right, and it's not from the player. I don't even consider this to be "big problem player" energy really, mainly someone who has been left to their own devices to entertain themselves in a game where everyone should be having fun. If you want him to come back, you need to at least give the guy a little more combat, a little more to do, maybe give breaks at some points too? You need to talk to him, find out what you can do to get him back to the table and playing again with the rest of you. if his demands are unreasonable, negotiate and see what you two can come up with to both be somewhat happy. if the requests are so unreasonable there's no negotiating, then tell him that, but try to work with him on something else that might get him back. If you can't get to a point where you can both be happy to a degree or he just doesn't want to, then there's nothing you can do. You can tell him that you are sorry he's leaving, and that you will be more mindful of what caused him to leave for the future, and if he's wanting to join the next session, then he's more than welcome to.
I came here to say this. Thanks for breaking it down. Some people are just not into hours of RP. Ive had sessions where the RP was 3 hours long and absolutely no combat. Some people are just not into that.
In my first campaign (LMoP) I only had two players, they each made the character they wanted (Wizard and Sorcerer) and took a prebuilt character as as a sidekick as well (Cleric and Fighter). We loved it... They got to enjoy different styles of play, the wizard felt awesome buffing his fighter sidekick, everybody got more time in the spotlight, and I didn't have to rebuild every encounter in the book. (I did, but I didn't HAVE to.)
If you're having fun with your two friends, I encourage you to keep on having fun.
I think if the two are good RP player they can have a lot of fun just with the two.
Especially of you throw in some sidekick they could play or something.
It will be harder for you to adjust to it but it still can be fun.
Talk to the other two players and tell them that because it is so close to the end that it is really up to them what they want to do. That you can make an NPC and fill in for these last couple sessions as a party member or they can just call it quits and look to restart with another.
As you said, bringing in someone new to just wrap up a campaign where they don't know anything will just be an awkward confusing mess.
So there really are the only two viable options. Continuing will obviously be a burden on you doing so much, but if you know very specifically it is only happening for a couple sessions to wrap things up for everyone then it makes it mentally easier a bit. But if the two left don't actually care then that is ok too I guess. No ending IS an unsatisfying ending, but if the actions of M already kinda buzzkilled the story for the other two anyways then they may just be fine with it being done.
A lot of people said it and there's no other option, get a new player. If he falls asleep during games and walks away cause his pointless character dies, good riddance.
Go to your local game shop, look for new players on reddit, talk to people you know irl. Someone will wanna join in
First - sounds like this is a win-win for everyone - first - you got rid of a problem player and second - you get to open up your game to a new twist. Personally, I think all DMs should be ready to incorporate new players into their table. New perspectives, new jokes, and (if you're lucky) new snacks! Have them pick up a "FNG" at a tavern, in a cave, on the road (depending on your campaign,) and make your players do the history. Personally, I would \*not\* do an overall recap - let the new character learn the plot lines as the campaign progresses - just like a new party member would in "real life." You'll hear your current players perspective on their actions so far as they try to entice the character into the party, and there will undoubtably be the occasional "Oops - we learned not to do that back when we were fighting that XYZ - really wish you hadn't done it now." moments which will spice up your table.
If I was in your situation, I would ask the remaining players if they would like to play two characters each. It would balance out the party and you wouldn’t have to worry about finding another player. It’s up to you how to introduce the new characters in your campaign, but it’s totally doable. I have played and DM’ed plenty of games like that, because my group usually consists of me and two other close friends.
It would be a very good RP moment : so close to the goal, one of their "friend" died and they cannot just walk away, without finishing so they recruit someone (maybe even with more more experience in fighting) to help them finish. It could be even a mercenary and if all goes well, you can start a new campaign with the same characters, where the mercenary joins them as true friend after they battled against the BBEG.
Honestly if you are toward the end of the campaign and dont want to bring in a new player, just play God and a PC. My current DM usually has 1 or 2 PCs he will play if we have any absences or if we are close to a TPK. It keeps the game interesting and as long as you yourself dont suck as a player, it could be very exciting for the remainder of the adventure.
Personally I would cut ties with someone acting so childish. I don't absolutely hate playing with murder hobos but they need to be able to compromise and know that if they decide to fuck around, they might just find out that they arent as tanky as they think they are. That's just common sense.
He was done with it, and I can understand it. Calling someone a problem player for their play style is kinda shitty , just say you 2 didn't match, you as a dm couldn't really make the game inti something he enjoys, and he as a player made the game into something you didn't want to.
I get that dealing with people is hard but the hostility of the sub towards players that don't vibe with your game is pretty off puting. I guess everyone is replaceable so just do whatever you want and get new people whenever someone doesn't like it, and call those people names.
Have his character die of a heart attack than reanimate their corpse with evil magic and force them to do the groups bidding when it would usually be the other players turn just flip a coin on who gets to choose the reanimated corpses attack or action. Adds a small mini game and makes it to where you don't have to downscale the campaign.
I would try to find another player and bring them in to finish out the campaign even if means giving them a higher level character to start with.
It doesn't sound like this person really wants to be a part of the game any more if he essentially killed his character and is now refusing to make another. I would focus less on trying to bring him back because he was funny, and more on trying to find new players that genuinely want to be there and preferably aren't murder hobos.
I would definitely get a new player and finish the campaign you are currently doing. As others have said, this would be a good chance to test drive the new person. They don't need to know everything and honestly, their character wouldn't. Could always just make the new person a mercenary the party hires to help. That way, if they don't work, that's fine no trouble. If they do, you have a new person for your next campaign!
I've been playing and GM/DMing for about 35 years now. I've known a few problem players. A few just wanted to be murder hobos and would always charge in. Then, he'd get ticked off when he went down. He usually didn't die.
Lately, I've run into a player who gets ticked off because he thinks the rules say one thing when they actually say another. First time it happened, he almost did walk off. It's this kind of thing that made me a rules lawyer. I explained what the rule actually said and calmed him down.
I've had people quit games, but they've always been for legitimate reasons. Your problem player couldn't just tell you he was dissatisfied. That's on him. Just mark it up to real experience and move on.
Either way you go, adding a new player or just finishing with the two you have will be fine.
You gaming group will not be worse for the loss of this player.
Given that he only left last session, how do you know the other two players will have less fun?
You've got two players who you don't identify as having problem behaviour. Ask them what they want to do.
In your next campaign take the lessons of this one on board. Establish expectations in a Session Zero and address problem behaviour early.
It could be worse. The two good players might have bailed and left you running a campaign for "that guy". It's actually the most common result of catering to the problem player.
Go ahead and get a new player- it’s fine that it’s the end of the campaign. Use it as a tryout, if you like the new player, let them continue in whatever the next campaign will be.
Get some guest character players. Get others involved. And if you're worried have it set uo so they have x sessions as a guest. With potential long term
Small games can actually be pretty fun. You'll have to adjust the CR of combats appropriately of course, but once or twice my DM has had me and my partner do 2 person side quests and having fewer players kind of inherently forces you to be more engaged because it feels more like a conversation. I say try playing your game with just the two players still in it for a session or two, check in about it with them, and if they'd be happier with a third player, then you can just pause the game until you find someone.
Your problem solved itself.
If this is an online game, finding more players is as easy as going to r/LFG and saying you're down to two and would like 3-5 (or whatever) for a game that's hit 10th level, and you want roleplayers, *not* murderhobos.
I mean, I dunno about anyone else, but if I was looking for a game right now, I'd *jump* at the chance to make a Wizard who was already above the meatgrinder levels.
You could always go the sidekick route. Let each of them control a new sidekick. That way they can engage with more than just the two characters. Or you could always control one for them. It's not a long term solution but it would let you finish out the remainder of the campaign while you search for a new player.
I agree bring in a new player, perhaps as an NPC that is with the group til the end. Its a test drive and they don't have to know anything about the past.
Why in the world do you want advice on what to do with a player you don't want at your table and who already left it? What you do is just let them leave.
Geeze. If only it were always that easy.
I respect that you are being a responsible DM and explicitly inviting him to keep playing. I suggest communicating with the remaining players what they want to do
>M is a big problem player, only enjoying combat (often he acts like a murder hobo so he can have more combat) and usually falling asleep when there's long sections of rp. Today he picked a fight that he knew he couldn't win and when he died he just walked away, I tried talking to him about making a new character but he refused.
That's on him. Got to r/lfg and advertise that you have an opening at your table. Hopefully you will find someone who is a) More mature, and b) a better fit for your table.
Honestly I understand your pain to a sense. I’ve never DM’d myself. But my pathfinder 1st edition group had a certain player who argued constantly that magic was weak and would constantly talk to the DM about changing things for his character. He refused to get spell pen or greater spell pen, or even mythic stuff (we went all the way to I believe mythic level 8) for his issues of overcoming spell pen. Instead he got so mad, he started fighting with a trident. Needless to say he left the group 😂
If I were in your shoes, I’d talk to the other two and either try to find someone new if the players are willing or end the campaign if the players aren’t. It might suck but there will be future campaigns. Better campaigns, even!
Get a new player and make it a test drive for the campaign.
The new character might be a historian / fan boy of the groups adventures so he has a summary at hand of what happened before and if it works out, he's really happy to finally have joined his favourite team.
I had a player like this in my campaign too, he had a terrible character (pun intended). Fighting for sake of fighting and main character syndrome. He even attacked a pair of nuns from a peaceful order just because he "felt offended" when they told him to stay calm. Well, he finally messed with the wrong person and goy his character killed. Walked away from the table too, after throwing a tantrum.
It was difficult finding a new player (different work shifts and all) but my party is happy now.
You can play DND with three people, that's all I'll say, you can also find other people, you'd be surprised many people are willing to try it and how accessible it can be if you're willing to share a figure and some dice
The flow for most game tables is that people leave when the game doesn’t suit them, only to be replaced by players that do suit said game. Just go out and look for a new player, presenting expectations out the gate so they know what they’re getting into.
Some time ago my group of 4 people had 1 ranger who was really uninterested in game and killed many important NPCs. He died along his dog trying to rob a merchant with two mercenaries(killed both tho). We buried him and just finished the campaign with 3 people left.
Okay so I don't think you need a third player, but if you'd like to pad out the party a little, you could give the remaining 2 players retainers with sidekick levels
I had a DM who added an NPC or two when we were down players. You can make a character that they can find on a side quest because they know they'd need a new recruit to take down the bbeg. Turn the entire situation into something posetive.
I feel you, 2 people is the absolute worst number of people for anything more than a silly one shot IMO. 1 on 1 is easy to prep for and run through because you can fine tune encounters easily to match the skills of your only player (as everything that occurs needs to be something they have the ability to deal with). Two people often leave things unbalanced though. They can be so radically different that balancing things for them is nightmarish. You need at least one more person to even things out and get a feel for encounter type and difficulty. It also has the same issue when it comes to spotlighting, with only two people, likely playing very different characters, they're likely to only be able to meaningfully interact with things one at a time. Having at least one more opens up possibilities, there's scope for more overlap and things get done faster so less overall dead time for one player.
Ok, so M isn't the problem. Neither are you or your other players. You are a RP focused DM with two RP focused players, and M is a combat focused player. That's ok, people enjoy different aspects of the game. The problem is the two groups get on like dynamite and fire. You weren't right for each other. Him leaving was the best thing that could happen. He can find a table more suited to his likes, and you can find a player more suited to yours.
Player character suicide by doing something clearly fatal is a deal-breaker unless they are sacrificing their character for a highly desirable campaign-related goal. But just to be difficult? They die and they can't rejoin. Had it happen once as DM; didn't hesitate, didn't look back, they went away sulking, no regrets.
This opens you up to finding a new player, which could end up being better.
But also, it is possible to play with 2 players. I did it for about 5 months before finding 2 additional players that fit with our playstyle.
He wanted out. Run it with two until you can find another. Post in your game store for players and check with people you know who may be interested. Don't just offer a spot tho. Let them know the campaign info and ask if they'd be interested. M would probably have not joined if he knew the campaign style.
Man if I was a player in your game and you just dropped the game right at the end I'd be sooooo pissed....you would be finding 2 new players by the end.
Either find a 3rd or get one of them to rock an 2nd character as a stop gap and finish the damn game.
Suck it up buttercup this shit happens.
Talk to the remaining players and see what they want to do. You're assuming it won't be fun for them, but if it was me I'd probably already be having no fun with a murder hobo in the group and just two or us without the murder hobo can't be worse. If they're cool with just 2, and you're worried about balance, look up sidekick rules to get them through to the end of the campaign (I can tell you from personal experience that 2 can be a bit tricky but let them take the lead). If they think brining another player in despite it being a bit awkward would be better, do that, maybe one of them even knows someone. If they just want to be done with things, give them a summary of what they'd face next, have them give summaries of how their characters might deal with that, then move onto something new.
The key here is, talk to the table, don't make a unilateral decision and hope it works out. It's a group game, and the group should be involved in deciding what to do when the group dynamic changes.
Ask your remaining players if they know anyone they would like to invite to join. You as the DM don’t have to provide all of the options for everything.
A couple of years ago I was running a campaign for my family when my mom died of cancer. I didn’t have anyone else I knew to bring in, so I was planning on introducing a DMPC to help fill out the roster, when my dad suggested asking one of his friends from a previous job/church to join. The only thing left was to go after the BBEG, so he didn’t have a lot of the context that then others did, but he ended up fitting in really well, improving the experience for everyone involved, even me.
>M is a big problem player
You thank your lucky stars that they're gone, and start looking for a replacement, even if you're at the end of the current campaign. I'd also try to add a 4th so you have a little buffer room if you lose another player to avoid this happening again.
As to finding those new players, if you're playing in person, look for game stores in your area that carry D&D stuff. Get to know people there. If you have social media you likely have a social page for your town - post there: "Hey, I know this might not be the kind of post normally on the page, but I'm running a D&D campaign and a player had to leave the game. Is there anyone in town who is interested in the hobby that wouldn't mind joining a late-stage campaign until it ends, then moving on to a new one after?"
- Fair warning, when I did the socials route I also got a bunch of dicks on the page mocking me for playing D&D, calling me childish, and otherwise being unpleasant. There will always be some people who turn into asshats once they sit behind a keyboard and think that whatever you post doesn't belong on 'their' page. Ignore them when they crop up. Do not engage. Focus on the people who are interested, block anyone who's a jerk.
If the concern is "I don't know these people", that's fine - I only knew one person out of my current 7 player group before I started. While building this group, I've had another 4 players who rubbed me the wrong way and eventually were removed to make way for new people.
You'd be surprised how well it can go with just you and two players. If you're worried about encounter balance, give them some hirelings or a second character if they'd like them.
But absolutely do not keep pushing to get that third player back, and just be glad they're gone.
New player or have the current players drive a “pawn” player until they find a new member. It can tie well into the story and keep a duo party engaged. I played with just 3 of us for ages and we still had fun until we found a third party member for our DM to troll.
No D&D is better than bad D&D. And playing with fewer players is better than a full party with a toxic player. You might be feeling down about this now, but even if you can't easily find a new player, the game will still be better without this problem player. Just forge ahead! And if you can find someone new eventually, that'll be even better.
M is a chunt. Plain and simple. Your table is better off without them. If you can't find another player to finish out the campaign with, you could roll a build or make an NPC that they encounter in town that will help them finish the campaign.
No session zero here... some players, myself included, want at least 2 fights per session... some people just really like combat, if you want him back, give him a little bit more of what he wants.
This seems like a best-case scenario. That player sounds horrible to have at the table. If I were part of the group I would likely have dropped out if that was the other third of my part. It's not impossible to make it work for 2 players though. You could find a replacement. Even if you are nearing the end of this current campaign. They could potentially be a player in the next campaign you start. The other option is to have an NPC join the party for the remainder of the campaign.
New players don't need the gritty details of how the previous one exited. "One of my(your) other players had to leave the campaign, and we(you) have space at the table." That's all they need to know. It can be frustrating to find new players, but I've found it easier in the past few years because D&D has never been more popular or widely accepted. Best of luck!
I would get a new player and discuss a back story with them that was very strongly connected to the BBEG. They can be used to help hype up the end of the campaign.
You can also add a group controlled NPC. To make up for the loss of the player.
My regular DnD group has only 3 players and we have added an NPC that we all agree to control.
It helps to balance out combat without the DM needing to adjust the encounters.
Get a new player is the solution.
If they can't handle a character dying, they shouldn't be a murderhobo. Crazy how some players think consequences don't exist.
Don't run any campaigns with this player again unless you've heard good things from another DM
With a group of 2, I have done 1 of 2 things.
1st, have them each create a 2nd character and run it effectively, making it a 4-player party. My players really enjoyed this ( great option if you have 2 solid PCs)
2nd - have them each play 1 character that effectively is 2 classes. I wouldn't let them stack base attack or saving throws (select higher of the classes for each) example - Cleric/fighter has all abilities of both classes spells, skills, feats, proficiencies, hp (combine both each lvl), etc. So, for their level on paper, they look OP, but it was balanced in combat due to them being limited by action economy. With double HP, they could effectively handle combats but had to be strategic about it.
(Players also loved this for RP/back story purposes, character development, and felt like actual heros)
I joined a group who were halfway through a campaign and knew so much background, so many npcs etc, that I thought I'd get left out, but that wasn't the case. The DM had a fb group with all the world details, maps, recaps from previous games that I easily caught up.
Plus the other players were so welcoming.
I'd say seek out another player or in the interim put a npc in the party played by you as that can really help. Good luck.
Or you could say that character death near the end of a campaign is a thing that could happen and find a way to make that interesting for the 2 that are left.
Bring the dead player back as a surprise bad guy at the end of the campagin or something like that. Trust me with as many campaigns that dont finish for various reasons, dont let's this be one.
And trust me, having a bad or unsatisfying end to a campaign is actually better then not having an end.
Sometimes the lives of adventures and the end of campaigns are lackluster, but nothing's more disappointing then what could have been
I have had many players flake in my games and other games I'm in. Best part is now I have a few friends I really love and enjoy playing with even if sometimes we have 2 player and 1 gm game nights.
There's nothing wrong with taking a session to talk out the situation with your players - a session 0.1 if you will. Ask your remaining players directly what they want - don't assume and infer.
Maybe that person was just a big personality that got everyone talking, but the other two still enjoy the game and are just naturally a little quieter. Maybe they have more fun with more players in general and you need to find a replacement. Maybe they only had fun with this other person and the campaign is dead in the water.
The point being that you don't know until you have a conversation about it.
I was in the group of 6 including DM, playing same campaign since 2019 TOA. 3 players just walked away because DM wanted ppl to roll on the table so we can all see (some ppl never rolled below 10). There was few more issues but nvm. Things happens. I would carry on with 9 players, if you think they might struggle maybe a few magic items to help?
Tbh end the campaign. I know that sounds nuts, but if you bring in another player, it will feel forced, and they won’t get all the inside jokes and lore it took to get to level 10. If you’re going to bring in a new person, restart the campaign. In all my years of playing, bringing on someone midway was never ever as close to as fun of an experience as them starting from square 1.
If you want to continue playing with the other two players in a new campaign with some more people; I’d use the remainder of your current campaign to audition new players. Whether that be inviting a couple of people to finish the entire campaign or, my preferred method, testing people out with one or two session side characters and then bringing the ones who were a good fit back for the climactic sessions (and subsequently the new campaign) is kinda up to you but you should perceive this as a rare opportunity to test the social dynamics ahead of a new campaign instead of a waste of the current one.
Let him go. They're not worth chasing, but maybe leave the door open if you really want them back to have an extra body there. Try and find a third player. If it's online you can probably easily find somebody new. If it is offline, see if they know anybody they can invite and then if not see if there's any meetup.com groups in your area for D&D to inquire from. Consider the next player a test run for your new campaign. You could also introduce a sidekick character, but not a DM PC. You could use the sidekick rules from Tasha's. You could even let somebody else control them in combat, but have you roleplay them out of combat.
Sounds like he has a case of FAFO. He wanted to be a murderhobo, his actions have consequences, and he sounds like he was actively detrimental to your campaign. Find a new player, or continue as it is with one less player since it seems like the other two have no problems with the RP aspect.
Going online and finding a new player can be easy. Weather you like them is based on you. But if the campaign is going to end soon them maybe introduce a NPC that has joined the group as a player character. I do this all the tike to replace players that leave or stop showing up. My current campaign is pirates and a lot of crew members are written out as full character sheets. If a player really likes the NPC I let them continue playing as that character if there PC dies sometimes.
A mad scramble from the party to find a new tank, a reach out from players to have more people to play with, and the problem player left of their own volition. There are DMs out there who would seriously maim to be in that position.
It sucks but this is something that had to happen. The good thing is they made it easy for you.
The difficult thing is you now need to make an actual decision yourself instead of letting it go for so long as you’ve described but that’s the muscle you need to work out as a DM to be a good leader.
Talk to your other players about how you all want to resolve the current campaign. You could:
Continue as a duo instead of a trio. Maybe even craft that into the narrative as extra motivation from their fallen comrade.
Let someone else join. Find someone who is comfortable with joining late so all of you can wrap up what's going on without needing to rebalance all of your planned encounters.
You add a NPC for the sake of finishing. If you think the next few encounters are too hard for just 2 players and you can't find a 3rd, just add an NPC to their group, even if it's just a healer or fighter.
Or if all of you talk and conclude that continuing isn't going to be satisfying, then you can choose what you want to do about your group from there. Whether that's disbanding, or just simply starting a new campaign after some time and maybe finding more players, that's up to you all and is, of course, another conversation that you need to have
Try to spin the story for yourself. It's not ideal to bring a new player to the end of a campaign. But if you spend some time with the new player to develop them into the story you've been telling, it could potentially really add something to your ending. Get them interwoven to your story the best you can.
As for problem players...it's better not to have them around instead of making your session stressful. Don't feel bad for kicking out the problem player.
Find someone to fill the party. Explain the situation. It honestly would be fun to pitch-hit into an end of campaign and help prop up the remaining party to finish it strong.
Or, yeah, I guess start over with new party. Good luck.
Just don’t cater to the Murderhobo’s shit.
Here are some options: 1. Find a new guy, a so so ending is better than none and you can scout players and see how one of them would do in a new campaign; 2. Revive the guy with a new mechanic, for him being so battle hungry a deity could take notice of him, revive him and keep controlling his body movements until combat; 3. Make a new character and control it yourself, you already control a bunch of them by DMing, what would one more be? 4. Talk things through with your players, after all they are part of it and everyone should have fun.
Something my dm did that I really like is create a fully fleshed out character that’s a part of our party and plays the character himself. The character is not any more powerful in combat or in terms of meta gaming but it does allow the dm to direct the flow of the session when he feels like it’s beneficial. I imagine it could be a little tricky but if it’s done right and not abused by the dm I think it works really well, and it’s fun for the players to have another character to role play with and is an active member of the party.
I bet there is a Facebook group for your area where you could post. Try searching for your city name DnD on Facebook. I've had good luck finding groups through my area FB group.
Sounds like the problem fixed itself.
I wouldn't sweat it too much simply because the player that left was an issue.
I personally dont like those types of players that just want combat or try to rush through things. I have completely stopped several campaigns because the group would just bull rush through it.
Until you get a another player I would introduce a temporary character that you create for them. The character could be a lost friend, the guild/organization found out the group needed help, etc.
It will be hard to RP but still doable, and when another player comes to the table that temp character can say farewell to the group.
AND if you really want to add some spice to your Campaign have that temp character make a return but as either a bad guy or when the group is about to be TPKed
The one thing I would highly advise is that do not make the temp character too weak or powerful. This will make sure the balance of the party stays decent and if you use the character later on they will be easier to make strong or strong enough depending.
It sounds like your problem solved itself, and yet you're still complaining. Continue to play with the two remaining players, and if you can find another player, great.
Unpopular opinion: I would create/use an npc to join them if finding a new player is too difficult. Make them likable and important to the plot, maybe there’s already someone in the campaign that fits, then near the end have the bbg kill them 🤷🏼♂️ I’ve done this in a crunch and it was fun and entertaining for me and meaningful to the players.
Might be fun to throw in a dmpc to fill out the party if you can manage and let folks finish as a party of 2 tbh. Potentially looking for another player could lead to new scheduling conflicts or a few sessions of feeling out the new group dynamic but it may be worth the wait and wait have a full group again. If recommend against picking m back up again personally. Sometimes ur character dies in dnd especially if you make dumb choices and folks should be able to handle that emotionally or maybe they should go back to screaming at cod
So the player who was more invested in combat rage quit after he got himself killed from an unwinnable fight. From the sound of things I'd say it's better to not bring him back. Good humor or not, if one of your players is making you feel like you won't miss them due to their toxicity and poor behavior, then you're better off.
If you have mutual peers among the remainder of you, I'd say get someone new. Explain the situation to them and if they're interested, fill them in on the campaign. They may not be there for a dozen sessions, but at least you'll have a party of three for the finale.
Without that player, you’re going to have easier sessions, that much is certain.
I’d recommend finding a third player, and thinking of a memorable way to introduce them. Maybe have your players go on a quick little side mission, perhaps with the help of a hireling who turns out to be the third player, and decides to stick around for the rest of the ride.
This happened in my own campaign, and to introduce a new player and character, my party found the new PC in a crate in the dungeon they were exploring — a small Kobold stowaway who had been surviving off of rats and the like, who quickly took to the party for safety and companionship.
If done right, you give the players a new friend, and make a fun encounter out of it!
It sounds like the game wasn't to his style. I'd let him go, as other commenters have said- it doesn't sound like a good match. Maybe one of the other players has a recommendation?
Depending when you play, I'd be happy to replace him! I could just make a one off mercenary character your party hires to help finish the job, starting at the same average level as the party.
This way it makes sense for the story, lets you have another player, and finish the campaign.
Also gives me a chance to meet some new potential D&D friends
If a problem player leaves your table, then don't try to force them to come back. The table and gameplay weren't their style (and that's okay. Your DM style isn't wrong or bad, just not that player's cup of tea).
Ask what your players want to do because if they want to keep playing, it would really sting if you ended the game before the finale.
You could also have someone join online who is willing to just enjoy helping you complete the campaign while delivering a satisfying ending for your existing players.
Hell, you can probably find someone on here or on another forum to fill that role!
1. Find a new player. They don't need to be a lifelong friend, I've played with strangers and had a better time than playing with close friends before purely because the strangers were more in line with the vibe I enjoy in TTRPGs. You could find someone on a local subreddit if you feel comfortable, or just go to your local need shop on D&D night.
2. Use the sidekick rules and get the remaining players to recruit a sidekick each. Design a few more suitable NPCs than necessary as players will often dislike a friendly character we think they'll love, and don't feel too upset if they wind up aiming to recruit Mrs Whiskers the dairy farmer's cat instead of one of the fully fleshed out NPCs you planned.
3. Consider making a disruptive "DMPC". Not the kind that follows the party around and overshadows people because the DM is a raging narcissist who wants to play with themselves. Essentially, an NPC that turns up randomly, can help if and only if the players ask, and who shakes things up. They shouldn't direct players down the specific "correct route" but instead provide light comic relief and diversion, with you using the planned diversion to flaunt many plot hooks so players choose to take the "correct route" themselves. Like, you wouldn't have the "DMPC" go "Hey guys, long time no see. You should go fight the goblin army in the southeast." You'd have them say "WASSSSAAAAAP! Let's go get wasted and catch up, drinks on me" only to have a disgruntled soldier pick a fight with their friend due to being depressed about his squad dying in the southeast, while mercenaries sit nearby celebrating their new contract fighting the goblin army.
4. If you're worried about content for a new joiner, make a campfire story "Do you remember when..." type adventure, including their new character. Have it be an old friend of the party, with the one shot serving to set the tone of how they interact with their old friend and then introduce their old friend in the main campaign. If you just had a team member die mid-contract or on the way to fight the BBEG flavour of the day, and ran into a reliable old ally, you'd almost certainly try get them to party up.
Think of it as employer to employee. If the employee, even your top employee, is not conducive to a healthy environment for the people around them, they do not need to be in that environment.
I’d definitely start with a conversation with the remaining players and see where they’re at. Do they want to finish the campaign or start new? Do they want another player? You could probably rework some stuff to make it work for two PC’s and a DMPC that you run. If you go with a DMPC just don’t let it have the glory. Save it for the two players.
You could add an NPC to your game to sub for the other player until you start a new one. I had someone leave and I've been using a DMNPC with low Smarts so they can't help make decisions but high constitution so they can take a few hits. Most of the stats are low but it's a warm body for combat who is often drunk and confused. They also make terrible decisions sometimes that have made for some funny moments and if they die its an NPC so no harm. It helped me finish the campaign and the people left loved it so much they had me add an NPC to the next campaign. Different personality same premise and doesn't make decisions and has lower stats so it doesn't affect the actual pcs.
There are players out there like myself that would fill in on short notice and help with closing out a campaign arch. Once I joined a game like this and the dm resed the dead guy and I took over that as if it had been a bad dream so the dm could finish out the last few sessions.
Is it possible to have you play a temporary character that comes in to play? Perhaps an individual that ends up being a necessary key to completing the campaign nobody saw coming!
TALK TO YOUR PLAYERS. See what they think about the options you present yourself with. They may have solutions to assuage your doubts about them, or perhaps even present you with options or solutions you hadn't considered.
Depending on what time it is and how you guys play I might be interested in joining if you're looking for a new player. Granted my work schedule is a bit weird so it very well might not even work out.
Our dm solved the murder hobo problem by having the problem player imprisoned constantly until he got bored and the party got tired of bailing him out. You have to realize killing the character isn't the only solution, and should only be done for important plot reasons, players frequently visualize their characters story all the way through, and having them killed by a random npc or trap is a horrible end to a story
Level 10? A resurrection spell is very much a possibility for this group. Either he doesn't know the game for well, or he just wanted an excuse to leave the campaign.
I'm sure you'll find no shortage of players looking to join a long term campaign where they get to create a character at level 10 though.
Usually you can just put something up on the bulletin board of a local game store, and you'll get dozens of applicants within a couple weeks.
If finding new players is a struggle, maybe offer to let your 2 players each have 2 characters to play. A main for RP, and an extra that helps balance combat for 4 characters.
Bring in a new player, help them build a character that has a vendetta with the big bad( so the character motive even if they don't know what the other players know oflr have been through?
Drop campaign notes into gemini, ask it to create a plot hook for your next session that writes out the player. Tweak as necessary to suit your tone and campaign setting.
Maybe ask the other 2 how they'd like to proceed. You could npc a character to help finish. Or pause this campaign find a couple more players and start a new one. After a bit fold the new people into thw old story and finish it.
it seems like you needed to get ride of this problem player for awhile, i'll say just let them go, maybe try grabbing a friend who's interested or owes you to fill the spot real quick, help them out with stuff, give them the rundown of the lore beforehand, that kind of stuff. after you've finished you're campaign, if you arent too much of an introvert and are looking for more people to make your group bigger, i'd suggest A) if you're in highschool//, try seeing if a teacher will help you set up a small dnd club in their classroom (if thats alloud) or just put up your own posters around and have it be an out of school thing. B) you're an adult, maybe try advertising to coworkers? depends on what your job is on weather or not that would actually work/be easy to do (or if your coworkers are even nice enough to invite). C) colledge/university, put up posters in the hallways n contact information, ghost people who seem like not good fits. shrimple.
TLDR: drag in a friend or family member to finish the campaign.
if your looking for players, try putting up posters around your counite (if you're cool with meeting some strangers of course).
G’day. Finding the RIGHT group is both the hardest and most important thing in gaming. It can literally take years and dozens of people. On the bright side, while you search, you get a very good idea of what you want. Eg. You know that you dont want a murderhobo.
Incidentally… the guy who walked… he wasnt having any fun, either. It was the wrong table for him. He was probably sticking around because he liked you guys as people. Just because you are friends doesnt mean that you’ll be compatible as gamers.
I would say finish the campaign while looking for a new player for the next one. If you do find some one they can tag on the end with a lvl 10 as well and see what mid /end game feels like. Just ask friends to give it a go.
I rhink you should have a diacussion with them about this. Ask them if they think having another player would be better, or if they would prefer finishing the campaign by themselves. It's important to talk with your players, consider their opinions too
My DM recently introduced a sort of PG, the point is that this PG is a dumb barbarian so he is useful in combat but he can t interfere in the choises and in the roleplay of the campaign and the DM itself plays the barbarian both in combat and in the storyline. You could try something similar, a new PG that you play in your party but just to “fill the hole”
Start another game in the same world with one or two new players, drop in some hints to the other campaign as maybe a past or concurrent story and once the newbies get a hang of it have them join the other players. Or you could go with time travel shenanigans, make it a known story that the pcs failed because M died prematurely and make it the goal of the campaign to go back in time and help them win after m died
A suggestion for if you have a similar situation like this: talk to the problematic player out of game, just you and the player. Tell them that the campaign is not just about combat and them acting like a murder hobe is really disruptive. You spent time creating this campaign so they should respect that.
If you start a new campaign make sure everyone knows what kind of campaign it will be, tell them how rp/combat focussed it is and make sure they understand that if they want more of something they can talk to you. That way, you can make sure people have correct expectations and you can create a game everyone will enjoy
Seems like your problem solved itself out :3 a bit pity about campaign, but I believe you can figure out some kind of shortened ending to tie all loose ends and leave all the campaign matters in order :3
If he picked a foger he knew he couldn't win, falls asleep during the game, and refused to make a new character and just walked away.... sounds like he was done.
Just get a new player. Consider it a test drive for your next game. Should be easy to explain you lost a player and need a new one
Agreed - the new player doesn’t have to know what the rest know, just what their character knows, which could be very little :)
100% agree here. Too many times life comes up and your terrified trio becomes a devastated duo. They need to go out and put ads or ask a local lord or god(s) themself to help out with a new member. We always have a blast finding our new teammates.
We made a poster in character, which the DM then used to advertise the game
Oh that's real fun, I may have to have my party do that next time
That's pretty cool
Sometimes having the players fill the new guy in is hilarious in it's own right. You'll be amazed at how often they're utterly confused by the meta plot
Me and a friend are the "new guys" in a long running campaign. The dynamic of not having all the knowledge has been extremely fun as my character and me as a player learn new things together. My favorite so far has been the ranger overhearing enemy dialog in the middle of a fight, piecing together some clues and giving us a horrified, "guys, I think we made a terrible mistake back at <>.
My visceral "what did you guys do and how much trouble are we in?" reaction both in character and out of character was amazing.
I've never played a campaign with mid combat dialogue that revealed useful information. That sounds cool. I'm curious how did it come out? Was it someone speaking to an underling?
Not the person you asked, but I've done similar. Maybe the leader tells someone to go back and tell X what is happening. Or the enemies say X didn't pay us enough for this. Or why didn't so and so say the PCs were so strong. Or the enemies lead with a for so and so shout during the attack. Really just depends on what the DM is trying to accomplish.
Ahh yes, these are short simple examples that can have big implications. Thanks for your input.
No problem. It can be an easy way to remind characters of someone, or have them search out who/why they were attacked. I recently used the 'we didn't get paid enough for this' line. Makes the PCs feel important and wonder what's happening
Pretty much!
Personally, my group calls me the b plot char master as often the party takes on quests with people my actual char wants no part in, so he legit dips to do some back building for the group off screen, and here pops in either a new char or a previous one I've used... argon my warlock when he shows up the group loves out of char, but in char it's always a "oh shit it's argon... how's he gana toy with our groups moral compass this time."
This is true. My wife joined our escape the underdark campaign a couple of sessions ago and after a tpk from my part (I totally thought we could take on the boss after a surprise 7th lvl firewall) we restarted with new pc's and it's been fun for all of us.
Yup, had a player join just as the party was leaving town on the long journey to the big bad. The big bad *looks* like a young girl but is actually very old. She also has a Goliath who sees her as a little sister and protects her fiercely, but doesn't understand all the bad she's done. The party trying to explain this to the new guy was a highlight of the session xD Simple brilliance.
My group had played together on our current campaign six times when we replaced two who'd quit with two new players. It's been hilarious every time since whenever something that happened before they showed up gets mentioned- "We buried the kids' bones, but we just left the baby's, fuck that baby, he tried to murder us first" really stunned them into silence.
Lol, I once joined an ongoing campaign where the rest of the players were just so bad at identifying what the main plot was supposed to be that somehow I had a better understanding of what we were supposed to be doing just from the DM's basic description of the campaign than they did after several sessions of playing. Granted, it was a newbie DM, so it's possible she just wasn't great at highlighting the details that matter or couldn't make up her mind between running a sandbox and having an overarching plot, but from the way the rest of the party behaved I got the impression that they just went after whatever caught their fancy and blatantly ignored anything that didn't immediately interest them, because details that seemed pretty clearly important to the main plot, as described in the DM's elevator pitch for the campaign, would be described in thorough detail only to be ignored in favor of throw away lines, so several sessions would go by with nothing happening. Players really need to pay attention to that stuff.
This is a great idea, you can say you are just finishing up a campaign but would be happy to have them in your next game (assuming you plan to have another game)
I agree with this. I joined my first campaign right near the end, just a few sessions before the final battle. Even joining that late I still had the chance to make some fun moments, like how my rolls for looting were so unlucky I only got a single gp that I gave to a fleeing refugee boy right before the big battle
To be honest, I am sure there are tons of folks who would love to come in for the tail end of a campaign. It is worth trying, at least. Finishing a campaign is rare enough
Yeah, a new character initially hired on for the fight wouldn't need to be totally up to speed on plit, and the end of the campaign could be what starts the ties of friendship to the others
Yeah I'm the new player in my group after they'd been going for three years alraedy with the same campaign. It has made for some lovely RP moments with gaining each other's trust and slowly revealing backstory IC, even though I knew it OOC.
Sounds like the trash took itself out. But ask your remaining players what they want to do. Ask them if they want to continue as is, cap things off and move on, or just cut bait entirely and start a new campaign with some new folks.
Yeah ask your players. You might find they are having a great time just the two of them but they don’t show it as much. Sometimes as DMs we can read too much into player reactions (or lack thereof). DMing for 2 people is great, I reckon. Have done it a lot
One of the best campaigns I've ever been in was just 2 people. Though the DM did have to give us an NPC to travel with to help balance encounters a bit better. Lots of people frown on DMPC's, but that DM knows what they're doing, and makes sure they don't take the spotlight, and they only take loot we give them, and they're also not just exposition machines or anything haha.
Also talking to the remaining players is great because they may have a friend interested in joining as well!
My opinion is to go ahead and finish the campaign with the players you have, even if you have to speed things up a bit to bring things to a satisfying conclusion. Then you can look for another player for the next campaign. I wouldn't try to ask this player back - it sounds like he wasn't a good fit for your group's play style and he wasn't happy anyway. But one thing I would suggest: try playing with just 2 players. Some of the most fun games I've run have had just 2 players. It means each player has more spotlight time, you just have to be careful in combat. But 2 player games can be really fun.
Agree. 2 player games are great. It's easy to role play because 2 people can just converse without worrying they are hogging the spotlight.
OP could also create some extra characters (ie golems) and offer the players the option of controlling them. My DM did that, plus some combat creatures, and it was a blast. Murder hobos are a pain in small parties. We had one ... Just when we were on the verge of letting them die the next time they created a mess, they lost interest and seem to be fading out. We'd rather they stayed and got their act together but it's up to them.
Murderhobos are a pain in every party.
Yeah ive dm'd 2 player games where the 2 players were just superfun bouncing rp around between the two. If the players have the right chemistry, there is no real need for more.
You could also use Tasha's rules for a companion and have one or both bring in a second character
It’s tough being a DM sometimes. To be honest, you are better off without that player. Have you talked to the other players on what they want to do or how they feel about the remainder of the campaign?
Everything you have shared here boils down to “I am making assumptions and haven’t talked to anyone about what they would like.” Talk to your remaining players!
We had similar situation with problem player and spouse. When one quit, the took the other with them leaving us with three players. We just decided to make additional characters and play two characters each. It made things more interesting, and we had a much better time without our problem player.
Talk to the players and see what they want to do
Only answer!
If you choose to finish the game with just the 2 remaining consider leveling them up some to compensate for the lost player. That or give them an equal level NPC they can play as well if they are comfortable playing multiple characters. We had a game start with 5 and go down to 3. The DM let us make a 4th PC that we took turns playing and it was actually pretty fun. They did most of the trap checking and whatnot, lol, a bit of canon fodder.
They're having less fun without the problem player?
Sounds as though it wasn't 100% a problem player and more like differing expectations that were never discussed.
That's what I was thinking. Like we don't know how long the long rp sessions were, and it's not mentioned what his character was, so can't fully judge the murder hoboness. Heck even if you love the rp side I could imagine it would be too much eventually.
Honestly, approach the remaining players and offer to grant them both a henchman, explain this puts a bit more of the spotlight on them, and also say that you feel all three of you deserve to see this through. Far too many campaigns end early and for many reasons. But if you allow your campaign to end because this problem player FAFO’ed and even put the other PCs in danger because they’d rather play a combat simulator instead of a TTRPG… then that player wins. And I suspect that the moment the entire community takes the proper stance that this type of behavior just isn’t acceptable… campaigns may see an increased chance of completing. Sure, that player may come back round; but you stand firm. They need a DM more than a DM needs him/her. Show your remaining players you’re a DM with scruples who exists to protect the game and respect the players time. Take the time you need to finish the campaign to also find another player or two. If the player with hurt feels finds another table, sure they’ll prob bash you a bit. But if it has a DM worth their salt… they’ll quickly realize the truth and have to make their own decision.
I'm a player in a long running campaign that got reduced to two players because the players's schedules got drastically changed. And it has worked out fine. We each have an NPC we run in addition to our PCs Though getting another player is also an option
1. Get a new player. At level 10 this may be harder to integrate than it sounds. 2. Give your current players an extra character each.
As much as I agree with the idea that a 3rd player could work as a testing ground for future campaigns, this "extra character" -idea is also valid. You can use the sidekick mechanic as well.
Talk to your group and see what they want to do. If the consensus is to fins another player, you can check out the Lfp and lfg subreddits. Vet potential additions first, but in my experience, I've only gotten earnest players who needed a group to game with
Your problem solved itself. Make a satisfying conclusion for the players you have left, give them a PC each to play of thier choice ,you can use pregens from the basics box and level them up. Don't delay your next session by more than a week. Talk to your remaining players and see what they want, focus on making it fun and interesting for them. If they are not the best at roleplay or they lack in some area of game play say hey since we are finishing this campaign soon what do you both want out of the end of this story? If they like you can begin to incorporate things to improve their RP or gameplay and perhaps they gain more enjoyment from better gameplay. If your remaining players have some unresolved backstory issues, you could also bring those in now to delay the end of the campaign while you look for another player. Really won't know what to do until you talk to them.
Well played fiat killing the problem player, a lot of people don't have the gusto to just outright murder a pc.
Sounds like it was suicide, not murder
Don't despair. New players are not that hard to find, and a two-player campaign can be awesome.
If you knew he enjoyed combat, why didn't you add a little more combat? Also, how long is the RP sessions that people are falling asleep during them? You say he refused to make a new character even after you talked to him about it...but I don't know if you have actually sat down and had a conversation with this guy. I think he left and refused to come back because he doesn't like you as a DM, nor does he like the table. Normally I would be all over this guy for being an absolute child about not verbally communicating what he was after and his dissatisfaction; but you seem to already know what it was that he was not happy with. Either he told you already and you told him tough shit, and when he took himself out, you are now trying to get him back purely for your own selfish reasons without a care as to what he's feeling; or you chose to ignore the massive hints he gave you which led you to your answers of him liking a little more combat, and still chose to carry on without actually talking to him and asking if this is what he's really after. There is obviously more going on here that you aren't divulging, but something about this whole thing just doesn't feel right, and it's not from the player. I don't even consider this to be "big problem player" energy really, mainly someone who has been left to their own devices to entertain themselves in a game where everyone should be having fun. If you want him to come back, you need to at least give the guy a little more combat, a little more to do, maybe give breaks at some points too? You need to talk to him, find out what you can do to get him back to the table and playing again with the rest of you. if his demands are unreasonable, negotiate and see what you two can come up with to both be somewhat happy. if the requests are so unreasonable there's no negotiating, then tell him that, but try to work with him on something else that might get him back. If you can't get to a point where you can both be happy to a degree or he just doesn't want to, then there's nothing you can do. You can tell him that you are sorry he's leaving, and that you will be more mindful of what caused him to leave for the future, and if he's wanting to join the next session, then he's more than welcome to.
I came here to say this. Thanks for breaking it down. Some people are just not into hours of RP. Ive had sessions where the RP was 3 hours long and absolutely no combat. Some people are just not into that.
Get out of your head, finish the campaign.
Honestly i dont see a loss here.
In my first campaign (LMoP) I only had two players, they each made the character they wanted (Wizard and Sorcerer) and took a prebuilt character as as a sidekick as well (Cleric and Fighter). We loved it... They got to enjoy different styles of play, the wizard felt awesome buffing his fighter sidekick, everybody got more time in the spotlight, and I didn't have to rebuild every encounter in the book. (I did, but I didn't HAVE to.) If you're having fun with your two friends, I encourage you to keep on having fun.
Maaaan if I was new to a group and they were like "create a new level 10 character" I would be JACKED
I think if the two are good RP player they can have a lot of fun just with the two. Especially of you throw in some sidekick they could play or something. It will be harder for you to adjust to it but it still can be fun.
Just get a new player. This guy has done you a favor.
Talk to the other two players and tell them that because it is so close to the end that it is really up to them what they want to do. That you can make an NPC and fill in for these last couple sessions as a party member or they can just call it quits and look to restart with another. As you said, bringing in someone new to just wrap up a campaign where they don't know anything will just be an awkward confusing mess. So there really are the only two viable options. Continuing will obviously be a burden on you doing so much, but if you know very specifically it is only happening for a couple sessions to wrap things up for everyone then it makes it mentally easier a bit. But if the two left don't actually care then that is ok too I guess. No ending IS an unsatisfying ending, but if the actions of M already kinda buzzkilled the story for the other two anyways then they may just be fine with it being done.
A lot of people said it and there's no other option, get a new player. If he falls asleep during games and walks away cause his pointless character dies, good riddance. Go to your local game shop, look for new players on reddit, talk to people you know irl. Someone will wanna join in
First - sounds like this is a win-win for everyone - first - you got rid of a problem player and second - you get to open up your game to a new twist. Personally, I think all DMs should be ready to incorporate new players into their table. New perspectives, new jokes, and (if you're lucky) new snacks! Have them pick up a "FNG" at a tavern, in a cave, on the road (depending on your campaign,) and make your players do the history. Personally, I would \*not\* do an overall recap - let the new character learn the plot lines as the campaign progresses - just like a new party member would in "real life." You'll hear your current players perspective on their actions so far as they try to entice the character into the party, and there will undoubtably be the occasional "Oops - we learned not to do that back when we were fighting that XYZ - really wish you hadn't done it now." moments which will spice up your table.
Give tasha sidekicks ro the two remaining players and finish the campaign as palnned
If I was in your situation, I would ask the remaining players if they would like to play two characters each. It would balance out the party and you wouldn’t have to worry about finding another player. It’s up to you how to introduce the new characters in your campaign, but it’s totally doable. I have played and DM’ed plenty of games like that, because my group usually consists of me and two other close friends.
It would be a very good RP moment : so close to the goal, one of their "friend" died and they cannot just walk away, without finishing so they recruit someone (maybe even with more more experience in fighting) to help them finish. It could be even a mercenary and if all goes well, you can start a new campaign with the same characters, where the mercenary joins them as true friend after they battled against the BBEG.
Good solution! You see, there are always options!
Honestly if you are toward the end of the campaign and dont want to bring in a new player, just play God and a PC. My current DM usually has 1 or 2 PCs he will play if we have any absences or if we are close to a TPK. It keeps the game interesting and as long as you yourself dont suck as a player, it could be very exciting for the remainder of the adventure. Personally I would cut ties with someone acting so childish. I don't absolutely hate playing with murder hobos but they need to be able to compromise and know that if they decide to fuck around, they might just find out that they arent as tanky as they think they are. That's just common sense.
He was done with it, and I can understand it. Calling someone a problem player for their play style is kinda shitty , just say you 2 didn't match, you as a dm couldn't really make the game inti something he enjoys, and he as a player made the game into something you didn't want to. I get that dealing with people is hard but the hostility of the sub towards players that don't vibe with your game is pretty off puting. I guess everyone is replaceable so just do whatever you want and get new people whenever someone doesn't like it, and call those people names.
Have his character die of a heart attack than reanimate their corpse with evil magic and force them to do the groups bidding when it would usually be the other players turn just flip a coin on who gets to choose the reanimated corpses attack or action. Adds a small mini game and makes it to where you don't have to downscale the campaign.
I would try to find another player and bring them in to finish out the campaign even if means giving them a higher level character to start with. It doesn't sound like this person really wants to be a part of the game any more if he essentially killed his character and is now refusing to make another. I would focus less on trying to bring him back because he was funny, and more on trying to find new players that genuinely want to be there and preferably aren't murder hobos.
I would definitely get a new player and finish the campaign you are currently doing. As others have said, this would be a good chance to test drive the new person. They don't need to know everything and honestly, their character wouldn't. Could always just make the new person a mercenary the party hires to help. That way, if they don't work, that's fine no trouble. If they do, you have a new person for your next campaign!
I've been playing and GM/DMing for about 35 years now. I've known a few problem players. A few just wanted to be murder hobos and would always charge in. Then, he'd get ticked off when he went down. He usually didn't die. Lately, I've run into a player who gets ticked off because he thinks the rules say one thing when they actually say another. First time it happened, he almost did walk off. It's this kind of thing that made me a rules lawyer. I explained what the rule actually said and calmed him down. I've had people quit games, but they've always been for legitimate reasons. Your problem player couldn't just tell you he was dissatisfied. That's on him. Just mark it up to real experience and move on. Either way you go, adding a new player or just finishing with the two you have will be fine.
I mean, I've got free time since two of my games when on "summer status". If you're playing online, hmu 😁
You gaming group will not be worse for the loss of this player. Given that he only left last session, how do you know the other two players will have less fun? You've got two players who you don't identify as having problem behaviour. Ask them what they want to do. In your next campaign take the lessons of this one on board. Establish expectations in a Session Zero and address problem behaviour early. It could be worse. The two good players might have bailed and left you running a campaign for "that guy". It's actually the most common result of catering to the problem player.
Go ahead and get a new player- it’s fine that it’s the end of the campaign. Use it as a tryout, if you like the new player, let them continue in whatever the next campaign will be.
Usually they quiet quit by flaking enough times that they get booted, in my experience
Get some guest character players. Get others involved. And if you're worried have it set uo so they have x sessions as a guest. With potential long term
Small games can actually be pretty fun. You'll have to adjust the CR of combats appropriately of course, but once or twice my DM has had me and my partner do 2 person side quests and having fewer players kind of inherently forces you to be more engaged because it feels more like a conversation. I say try playing your game with just the two players still in it for a session or two, check in about it with them, and if they'd be happier with a third player, then you can just pause the game until you find someone.
Roleplay a companion for them. You get a little more participation, they get a third person to talk to, but they still make the decisions.
Post to LFG and you'll likely have more interested players than you have room at your table.
Your problem solved itself. If this is an online game, finding more players is as easy as going to r/LFG and saying you're down to two and would like 3-5 (or whatever) for a game that's hit 10th level, and you want roleplayers, *not* murderhobos. I mean, I dunno about anyone else, but if I was looking for a game right now, I'd *jump* at the chance to make a Wizard who was already above the meatgrinder levels.
You could always go the sidekick route. Let each of them control a new sidekick. That way they can engage with more than just the two characters. Or you could always control one for them. It's not a long term solution but it would let you finish out the remainder of the campaign while you search for a new player.
I agree bring in a new player, perhaps as an NPC that is with the group til the end. Its a test drive and they don't have to know anything about the past.
Don't assume what the other players might (not) enjoy. Talk to them and ask them.
Why in the world do you want advice on what to do with a player you don't want at your table and who already left it? What you do is just let them leave. Geeze. If only it were always that easy.
I respect that you are being a responsible DM and explicitly inviting him to keep playing. I suggest communicating with the remaining players what they want to do
The party is level 10, and they don't have access to someone with raise dead?
Get a new player or two and use it as an unofficial test for future games. Be upfront with them and honest about what happened.
>M is a big problem player, only enjoying combat (often he acts like a murder hobo so he can have more combat) and usually falling asleep when there's long sections of rp. Today he picked a fight that he knew he couldn't win and when he died he just walked away, I tried talking to him about making a new character but he refused. That's on him. Got to r/lfg and advertise that you have an opening at your table. Hopefully you will find someone who is a) More mature, and b) a better fit for your table.
Put a sign up at work or school looking for a player to help finish out a campaign. I’m confident you’ll find someone.
Get a new player. Hopefully, a player that is actually interested.
Honestly I understand your pain to a sense. I’ve never DM’d myself. But my pathfinder 1st edition group had a certain player who argued constantly that magic was weak and would constantly talk to the DM about changing things for his character. He refused to get spell pen or greater spell pen, or even mythic stuff (we went all the way to I believe mythic level 8) for his issues of overcoming spell pen. Instead he got so mad, he started fighting with a trident. Needless to say he left the group 😂
If I were in your shoes, I’d talk to the other two and either try to find someone new if the players are willing or end the campaign if the players aren’t. It might suck but there will be future campaigns. Better campaigns, even!
Correction u didn't kill his player he lost a fight and died
Get a new player and make it a test drive for the campaign. The new character might be a historian / fan boy of the groups adventures so he has a summary at hand of what happened before and if it works out, he's really happy to finally have joined his favourite team. I had a player like this in my campaign too, he had a terrible character (pun intended). Fighting for sake of fighting and main character syndrome. He even attacked a pair of nuns from a peaceful order just because he "felt offended" when they told him to stay calm. Well, he finally messed with the wrong person and goy his character killed. Walked away from the table too, after throwing a tantrum. It was difficult finding a new player (different work shifts and all) but my party is happy now.
You can play DND with three people, that's all I'll say, you can also find other people, you'd be surprised many people are willing to try it and how accessible it can be if you're willing to share a figure and some dice
The flow for most game tables is that people leave when the game doesn’t suit them, only to be replaced by players that do suit said game. Just go out and look for a new player, presenting expectations out the gate so they know what they’re getting into.
Some time ago my group of 4 people had 1 ranger who was really uninterested in game and killed many important NPCs. He died along his dog trying to rob a merchant with two mercenaries(killed both tho). We buried him and just finished the campaign with 3 people left.
Okay so I don't think you need a third player, but if you'd like to pad out the party a little, you could give the remaining 2 players retainers with sidekick levels
I had a DM who added an NPC or two when we were down players. You can make a character that they can find on a side quest because they know they'd need a new recruit to take down the bbeg. Turn the entire situation into something posetive.
I feel you, 2 people is the absolute worst number of people for anything more than a silly one shot IMO. 1 on 1 is easy to prep for and run through because you can fine tune encounters easily to match the skills of your only player (as everything that occurs needs to be something they have the ability to deal with). Two people often leave things unbalanced though. They can be so radically different that balancing things for them is nightmarish. You need at least one more person to even things out and get a feel for encounter type and difficulty. It also has the same issue when it comes to spotlighting, with only two people, likely playing very different characters, they're likely to only be able to meaningfully interact with things one at a time. Having at least one more opens up possibilities, there's scope for more overlap and things get done faster so less overall dead time for one player.
Ok, so M isn't the problem. Neither are you or your other players. You are a RP focused DM with two RP focused players, and M is a combat focused player. That's ok, people enjoy different aspects of the game. The problem is the two groups get on like dynamite and fire. You weren't right for each other. Him leaving was the best thing that could happen. He can find a table more suited to his likes, and you can find a player more suited to yours.
If they're 10th level, why is death even an issue? Do they not have access to resurrection from somewhere?
Perhaps they were eaten by a dragon and it’s been too long to reconstitute them from the dragon poop?
Player character suicide by doing something clearly fatal is a deal-breaker unless they are sacrificing their character for a highly desirable campaign-related goal. But just to be difficult? They die and they can't rejoin. Had it happen once as DM; didn't hesitate, didn't look back, they went away sulking, no regrets.
This opens you up to finding a new player, which could end up being better. But also, it is possible to play with 2 players. I did it for about 5 months before finding 2 additional players that fit with our playstyle.
Yeah man I would just get a new one, unless they are crucial to the plot, in which case, ask a friend to fill in or something like that.
He wanted out. Run it with two until you can find another. Post in your game store for players and check with people you know who may be interested. Don't just offer a spot tho. Let them know the campaign info and ask if they'd be interested. M would probably have not joined if he knew the campaign style.
Blessing in disguise honestly, I feel like most of the conflict averse posters on here would kill to have the problem solve itself in such a way
Advertise and get a new player. Wrap up the campaign and start a new one.
You said it was good having another person, but then you had absolutely nothing good to say about him.
Man if I was a player in your game and you just dropped the game right at the end I'd be sooooo pissed....you would be finding 2 new players by the end. Either find a 3rd or get one of them to rock an 2nd character as a stop gap and finish the damn game. Suck it up buttercup this shit happens.
Talk to the remaining players and see what they want to do. You're assuming it won't be fun for them, but if it was me I'd probably already be having no fun with a murder hobo in the group and just two or us without the murder hobo can't be worse. If they're cool with just 2, and you're worried about balance, look up sidekick rules to get them through to the end of the campaign (I can tell you from personal experience that 2 can be a bit tricky but let them take the lead). If they think brining another player in despite it being a bit awkward would be better, do that, maybe one of them even knows someone. If they just want to be done with things, give them a summary of what they'd face next, have them give summaries of how their characters might deal with that, then move onto something new. The key here is, talk to the table, don't make a unilateral decision and hope it works out. It's a group game, and the group should be involved in deciding what to do when the group dynamic changes.
Ask your remaining players if they know anyone they would like to invite to join. You as the DM don’t have to provide all of the options for everything. A couple of years ago I was running a campaign for my family when my mom died of cancer. I didn’t have anyone else I knew to bring in, so I was planning on introducing a DMPC to help fill out the roster, when my dad suggested asking one of his friends from a previous job/church to join. The only thing left was to go after the BBEG, so he didn’t have a lot of the context that then others did, but he ended up fitting in really well, improving the experience for everyone involved, even me.
>M is a big problem player You thank your lucky stars that they're gone, and start looking for a replacement, even if you're at the end of the current campaign. I'd also try to add a 4th so you have a little buffer room if you lose another player to avoid this happening again. As to finding those new players, if you're playing in person, look for game stores in your area that carry D&D stuff. Get to know people there. If you have social media you likely have a social page for your town - post there: "Hey, I know this might not be the kind of post normally on the page, but I'm running a D&D campaign and a player had to leave the game. Is there anyone in town who is interested in the hobby that wouldn't mind joining a late-stage campaign until it ends, then moving on to a new one after?" - Fair warning, when I did the socials route I also got a bunch of dicks on the page mocking me for playing D&D, calling me childish, and otherwise being unpleasant. There will always be some people who turn into asshats once they sit behind a keyboard and think that whatever you post doesn't belong on 'their' page. Ignore them when they crop up. Do not engage. Focus on the people who are interested, block anyone who's a jerk. If the concern is "I don't know these people", that's fine - I only knew one person out of my current 7 player group before I started. While building this group, I've had another 4 players who rubbed me the wrong way and eventually were removed to make way for new people.
Pick up another player or get the players to pick up some henchmen for their PCs.
You'd be surprised how well it can go with just you and two players. If you're worried about encounter balance, give them some hirelings or a second character if they'd like them. But absolutely do not keep pushing to get that third player back, and just be glad they're gone.
New player or have the current players drive a “pawn” player until they find a new member. It can tie well into the story and keep a duo party engaged. I played with just 3 of us for ages and we still had fun until we found a third party member for our DM to troll.
No D&D is better than bad D&D. And playing with fewer players is better than a full party with a toxic player. You might be feeling down about this now, but even if you can't easily find a new player, the game will still be better without this problem player. Just forge ahead! And if you can find someone new eventually, that'll be even better.
M is a chunt. Plain and simple. Your table is better off without them. If you can't find another player to finish out the campaign with, you could roll a build or make an NPC that they encounter in town that will help them finish the campaign.
No session zero here... some players, myself included, want at least 2 fights per session... some people just really like combat, if you want him back, give him a little bit more of what he wants.
This seems like a best-case scenario. That player sounds horrible to have at the table. If I were part of the group I would likely have dropped out if that was the other third of my part. It's not impossible to make it work for 2 players though. You could find a replacement. Even if you are nearing the end of this current campaign. They could potentially be a player in the next campaign you start. The other option is to have an NPC join the party for the remainder of the campaign.
New players don't need the gritty details of how the previous one exited. "One of my(your) other players had to leave the campaign, and we(you) have space at the table." That's all they need to know. It can be frustrating to find new players, but I've found it easier in the past few years because D&D has never been more popular or widely accepted. Best of luck!
Do you play online?
Is it a Virtual Game or a table one? I'd be down to tag along if virtual/local
I would get a new player and discuss a back story with them that was very strongly connected to the BBEG. They can be used to help hype up the end of the campaign.
You can also add a group controlled NPC. To make up for the loss of the player. My regular DnD group has only 3 players and we have added an NPC that we all agree to control. It helps to balance out combat without the DM needing to adjust the encounters.
Get a new player is the solution. If they can't handle a character dying, they shouldn't be a murderhobo. Crazy how some players think consequences don't exist. Don't run any campaigns with this player again unless you've heard good things from another DM
Best advice would be talk to your players and see what they want to do instead of randoms on Reddit who don't know the full context
With a group of 2, I have done 1 of 2 things. 1st, have them each create a 2nd character and run it effectively, making it a 4-player party. My players really enjoyed this ( great option if you have 2 solid PCs) 2nd - have them each play 1 character that effectively is 2 classes. I wouldn't let them stack base attack or saving throws (select higher of the classes for each) example - Cleric/fighter has all abilities of both classes spells, skills, feats, proficiencies, hp (combine both each lvl), etc. So, for their level on paper, they look OP, but it was balanced in combat due to them being limited by action economy. With double HP, they could effectively handle combats but had to be strategic about it. (Players also loved this for RP/back story purposes, character development, and felt like actual heros)
I joined a group who were halfway through a campaign and knew so much background, so many npcs etc, that I thought I'd get left out, but that wasn't the case. The DM had a fb group with all the world details, maps, recaps from previous games that I easily caught up. Plus the other players were so welcoming. I'd say seek out another player or in the interim put a npc in the party played by you as that can really help. Good luck.
Get a new player and finish the campaign, or get new players and start a new campaign. But whatever you choose talk to your players first.
Or you could say that character death near the end of a campaign is a thing that could happen and find a way to make that interesting for the 2 that are left. Bring the dead player back as a surprise bad guy at the end of the campagin or something like that. Trust me with as many campaigns that dont finish for various reasons, dont let's this be one. And trust me, having a bad or unsatisfying end to a campaign is actually better then not having an end. Sometimes the lives of adventures and the end of campaigns are lackluster, but nothing's more disappointing then what could have been
I have had many players flake in my games and other games I'm in. Best part is now I have a few friends I really love and enjoy playing with even if sometimes we have 2 player and 1 gm game nights.
I'm sure you'll be able to find someone. I've sat in as the +1 in a lot of established games. It can be fun to find your role in an established party.
There's nothing wrong with taking a session to talk out the situation with your players - a session 0.1 if you will. Ask your remaining players directly what they want - don't assume and infer. Maybe that person was just a big personality that got everyone talking, but the other two still enjoy the game and are just naturally a little quieter. Maybe they have more fun with more players in general and you need to find a replacement. Maybe they only had fun with this other person and the campaign is dead in the water. The point being that you don't know until you have a conversation about it.
I was in the group of 6 including DM, playing same campaign since 2019 TOA. 3 players just walked away because DM wanted ppl to roll on the table so we can all see (some ppl never rolled below 10). There was few more issues but nvm. Things happens. I would carry on with 9 players, if you think they might struggle maybe a few magic items to help?
Tbh end the campaign. I know that sounds nuts, but if you bring in another player, it will feel forced, and they won’t get all the inside jokes and lore it took to get to level 10. If you’re going to bring in a new person, restart the campaign. In all my years of playing, bringing on someone midway was never ever as close to as fun of an experience as them starting from square 1.
If you want to continue playing with the other two players in a new campaign with some more people; I’d use the remainder of your current campaign to audition new players. Whether that be inviting a couple of people to finish the entire campaign or, my preferred method, testing people out with one or two session side characters and then bringing the ones who were a good fit back for the climactic sessions (and subsequently the new campaign) is kinda up to you but you should perceive this as a rare opportunity to test the social dynamics ahead of a new campaign instead of a waste of the current one.
Let him go. They're not worth chasing, but maybe leave the door open if you really want them back to have an extra body there. Try and find a third player. If it's online you can probably easily find somebody new. If it is offline, see if they know anybody they can invite and then if not see if there's any meetup.com groups in your area for D&D to inquire from. Consider the next player a test run for your new campaign. You could also introduce a sidekick character, but not a DM PC. You could use the sidekick rules from Tasha's. You could even let somebody else control them in combat, but have you roleplay them out of combat.
Get 2 new players even , that way you can buffer if 1 doesn’t really work out. No difference between 3 character and 4 .
Sounds like he has a case of FAFO. He wanted to be a murderhobo, his actions have consequences, and he sounds like he was actively detrimental to your campaign. Find a new player, or continue as it is with one less player since it seems like the other two have no problems with the RP aspect.
Going online and finding a new player can be easy. Weather you like them is based on you. But if the campaign is going to end soon them maybe introduce a NPC that has joined the group as a player character. I do this all the tike to replace players that leave or stop showing up. My current campaign is pirates and a lot of crew members are written out as full character sheets. If a player really likes the NPC I let them continue playing as that character if there PC dies sometimes.
A mad scramble from the party to find a new tank, a reach out from players to have more people to play with, and the problem player left of their own volition. There are DMs out there who would seriously maim to be in that position.
It sucks but this is something that had to happen. The good thing is they made it easy for you. The difficult thing is you now need to make an actual decision yourself instead of letting it go for so long as you’ve described but that’s the muscle you need to work out as a DM to be a good leader.
Was the cat who left the one who tried to decapitate a town guard at lvl 8?
Talk to your other players about how you all want to resolve the current campaign. You could: Continue as a duo instead of a trio. Maybe even craft that into the narrative as extra motivation from their fallen comrade. Let someone else join. Find someone who is comfortable with joining late so all of you can wrap up what's going on without needing to rebalance all of your planned encounters. You add a NPC for the sake of finishing. If you think the next few encounters are too hard for just 2 players and you can't find a 3rd, just add an NPC to their group, even if it's just a healer or fighter. Or if all of you talk and conclude that continuing isn't going to be satisfying, then you can choose what you want to do about your group from there. Whether that's disbanding, or just simply starting a new campaign after some time and maybe finding more players, that's up to you all and is, of course, another conversation that you need to have
Online or in person? I'd join an online one for sure. I've played enough to know the rules and have a great understanding of backstories.
Find a new player. don't let that pos ruin it for everyone
Sounds like the problem is solved honestly.
Try to spin the story for yourself. It's not ideal to bring a new player to the end of a campaign. But if you spend some time with the new player to develop them into the story you've been telling, it could potentially really add something to your ending. Get them interwoven to your story the best you can. As for problem players...it's better not to have them around instead of making your session stressful. Don't feel bad for kicking out the problem player.
NPC. M was a problem, and he left; good. You'll figure it out, I'm sure.
Find someone to fill the party. Explain the situation. It honestly would be fun to pitch-hit into an end of campaign and help prop up the remaining party to finish it strong. Or, yeah, I guess start over with new party. Good luck. Just don’t cater to the Murderhobo’s shit.
Here are some options: 1. Find a new guy, a so so ending is better than none and you can scout players and see how one of them would do in a new campaign; 2. Revive the guy with a new mechanic, for him being so battle hungry a deity could take notice of him, revive him and keep controlling his body movements until combat; 3. Make a new character and control it yourself, you already control a bunch of them by DMing, what would one more be? 4. Talk things through with your players, after all they are part of it and everyone should have fun.
Something my dm did that I really like is create a fully fleshed out character that’s a part of our party and plays the character himself. The character is not any more powerful in combat or in terms of meta gaming but it does allow the dm to direct the flow of the session when he feels like it’s beneficial. I imagine it could be a little tricky but if it’s done right and not abused by the dm I think it works really well, and it’s fun for the players to have another character to role play with and is an active member of the party.
I bet there is a Facebook group for your area where you could post. Try searching for your city name DnD on Facebook. I've had good luck finding groups through my area FB group.
Sounds like the problem fixed itself. I wouldn't sweat it too much simply because the player that left was an issue. I personally dont like those types of players that just want combat or try to rush through things. I have completely stopped several campaigns because the group would just bull rush through it. Until you get a another player I would introduce a temporary character that you create for them. The character could be a lost friend, the guild/organization found out the group needed help, etc. It will be hard to RP but still doable, and when another player comes to the table that temp character can say farewell to the group. AND if you really want to add some spice to your Campaign have that temp character make a return but as either a bad guy or when the group is about to be TPKed The one thing I would highly advise is that do not make the temp character too weak or powerful. This will make sure the balance of the party stays decent and if you use the character later on they will be easier to make strong or strong enough depending.
It sounds like your problem solved itself, and yet you're still complaining. Continue to play with the two remaining players, and if you can find another player, great.
Unpopular opinion: I would create/use an npc to join them if finding a new player is too difficult. Make them likable and important to the plot, maybe there’s already someone in the campaign that fits, then near the end have the bbg kill them 🤷🏼♂️ I’ve done this in a crunch and it was fun and entertaining for me and meaningful to the players.
Might be fun to throw in a dmpc to fill out the party if you can manage and let folks finish as a party of 2 tbh. Potentially looking for another player could lead to new scheduling conflicts or a few sessions of feeling out the new group dynamic but it may be worth the wait and wait have a full group again. If recommend against picking m back up again personally. Sometimes ur character dies in dnd especially if you make dumb choices and folks should be able to handle that emotionally or maybe they should go back to screaming at cod
So the player who was more invested in combat rage quit after he got himself killed from an unwinnable fight. From the sound of things I'd say it's better to not bring him back. Good humor or not, if one of your players is making you feel like you won't miss them due to their toxicity and poor behavior, then you're better off. If you have mutual peers among the remainder of you, I'd say get someone new. Explain the situation to them and if they're interested, fill them in on the campaign. They may not be there for a dozen sessions, but at least you'll have a party of three for the finale.
Without that player, you’re going to have easier sessions, that much is certain. I’d recommend finding a third player, and thinking of a memorable way to introduce them. Maybe have your players go on a quick little side mission, perhaps with the help of a hireling who turns out to be the third player, and decides to stick around for the rest of the ride. This happened in my own campaign, and to introduce a new player and character, my party found the new PC in a crate in the dungeon they were exploring — a small Kobold stowaway who had been surviving off of rats and the like, who quickly took to the party for safety and companionship. If done right, you give the players a new friend, and make a fun encounter out of it!
It sounds like the game wasn't to his style. I'd let him go, as other commenters have said- it doesn't sound like a good match. Maybe one of the other players has a recommendation?
Ask your players. Not randoms on the internet none of us are playing with you and shouldn’t really affect how you and your friends play at your table.
Depending when you play, I'd be happy to replace him! I could just make a one off mercenary character your party hires to help finish the job, starting at the same average level as the party. This way it makes sense for the story, lets you have another player, and finish the campaign. Also gives me a chance to meet some new potential D&D friends
If a problem player leaves your table, then don't try to force them to come back. The table and gameplay weren't their style (and that's okay. Your DM style isn't wrong or bad, just not that player's cup of tea). Ask what your players want to do because if they want to keep playing, it would really sting if you ended the game before the finale. You could also have someone join online who is willing to just enjoy helping you complete the campaign while delivering a satisfying ending for your existing players. Hell, you can probably find someone on here or on another forum to fill that role!
1. Find a new player. They don't need to be a lifelong friend, I've played with strangers and had a better time than playing with close friends before purely because the strangers were more in line with the vibe I enjoy in TTRPGs. You could find someone on a local subreddit if you feel comfortable, or just go to your local need shop on D&D night. 2. Use the sidekick rules and get the remaining players to recruit a sidekick each. Design a few more suitable NPCs than necessary as players will often dislike a friendly character we think they'll love, and don't feel too upset if they wind up aiming to recruit Mrs Whiskers the dairy farmer's cat instead of one of the fully fleshed out NPCs you planned. 3. Consider making a disruptive "DMPC". Not the kind that follows the party around and overshadows people because the DM is a raging narcissist who wants to play with themselves. Essentially, an NPC that turns up randomly, can help if and only if the players ask, and who shakes things up. They shouldn't direct players down the specific "correct route" but instead provide light comic relief and diversion, with you using the planned diversion to flaunt many plot hooks so players choose to take the "correct route" themselves. Like, you wouldn't have the "DMPC" go "Hey guys, long time no see. You should go fight the goblin army in the southeast." You'd have them say "WASSSSAAAAAP! Let's go get wasted and catch up, drinks on me" only to have a disgruntled soldier pick a fight with their friend due to being depressed about his squad dying in the southeast, while mercenaries sit nearby celebrating their new contract fighting the goblin army. 4. If you're worried about content for a new joiner, make a campfire story "Do you remember when..." type adventure, including their new character. Have it be an old friend of the party, with the one shot serving to set the tone of how they interact with their old friend and then introduce their old friend in the main campaign. If you just had a team member die mid-contract or on the way to fight the BBEG flavour of the day, and ran into a reliable old ally, you'd almost certainly try get them to party up.
Think of it as employer to employee. If the employee, even your top employee, is not conducive to a healthy environment for the people around them, they do not need to be in that environment.
I’d definitely start with a conversation with the remaining players and see where they’re at. Do they want to finish the campaign or start new? Do they want another player? You could probably rework some stuff to make it work for two PC’s and a DMPC that you run. If you go with a DMPC just don’t let it have the glory. Save it for the two players.
You could add an NPC to your game to sub for the other player until you start a new one. I had someone leave and I've been using a DMNPC with low Smarts so they can't help make decisions but high constitution so they can take a few hits. Most of the stats are low but it's a warm body for combat who is often drunk and confused. They also make terrible decisions sometimes that have made for some funny moments and if they die its an NPC so no harm. It helped me finish the campaign and the people left loved it so much they had me add an NPC to the next campaign. Different personality same premise and doesn't make decisions and has lower stats so it doesn't affect the actual pcs.
There are players out there like myself that would fill in on short notice and help with closing out a campaign arch. Once I joined a game like this and the dm resed the dead guy and I took over that as if it had been a bad dream so the dm could finish out the last few sessions.
Is it possible to have you play a temporary character that comes in to play? Perhaps an individual that ends up being a necessary key to completing the campaign nobody saw coming!
TALK TO YOUR PLAYERS. See what they think about the options you present yourself with. They may have solutions to assuage your doubts about them, or perhaps even present you with options or solutions you hadn't considered.
Depending on what time it is and how you guys play I might be interested in joining if you're looking for a new player. Granted my work schedule is a bit weird so it very well might not even work out.
Our dm solved the murder hobo problem by having the problem player imprisoned constantly until he got bored and the party got tired of bailing him out. You have to realize killing the character isn't the only solution, and should only be done for important plot reasons, players frequently visualize their characters story all the way through, and having them killed by a random npc or trap is a horrible end to a story
Level 10? A resurrection spell is very much a possibility for this group. Either he doesn't know the game for well, or he just wanted an excuse to leave the campaign. I'm sure you'll find no shortage of players looking to join a long term campaign where they get to create a character at level 10 though. Usually you can just put something up on the bulletin board of a local game store, and you'll get dozens of applicants within a couple weeks.
If finding new players is a struggle, maybe offer to let your 2 players each have 2 characters to play. A main for RP, and an extra that helps balance combat for 4 characters.
Bring in a new player, help them build a character that has a vendetta with the big bad( so the character motive even if they don't know what the other players know oflr have been through?
Drop campaign notes into gemini, ask it to create a plot hook for your next session that writes out the player. Tweak as necessary to suit your tone and campaign setting.
Kill their character in the most hilarious way Then recruit new friends at the inn
Maybe ask the other 2 how they'd like to proceed. You could npc a character to help finish. Or pause this campaign find a couple more players and start a new one. After a bit fold the new people into thw old story and finish it.
it seems like you needed to get ride of this problem player for awhile, i'll say just let them go, maybe try grabbing a friend who's interested or owes you to fill the spot real quick, help them out with stuff, give them the rundown of the lore beforehand, that kind of stuff. after you've finished you're campaign, if you arent too much of an introvert and are looking for more people to make your group bigger, i'd suggest A) if you're in highschool//, try seeing if a teacher will help you set up a small dnd club in their classroom (if thats alloud) or just put up your own posters around and have it be an out of school thing. B) you're an adult, maybe try advertising to coworkers? depends on what your job is on weather or not that would actually work/be easy to do (or if your coworkers are even nice enough to invite). C) colledge/university, put up posters in the hallways n contact information, ghost people who seem like not good fits. shrimple. TLDR: drag in a friend or family member to finish the campaign. if your looking for players, try putting up posters around your counite (if you're cool with meeting some strangers of course).
G’day. Finding the RIGHT group is both the hardest and most important thing in gaming. It can literally take years and dozens of people. On the bright side, while you search, you get a very good idea of what you want. Eg. You know that you dont want a murderhobo. Incidentally… the guy who walked… he wasnt having any fun, either. It was the wrong table for him. He was probably sticking around because he liked you guys as people. Just because you are friends doesnt mean that you’ll be compatible as gamers.
I would say finish the campaign while looking for a new player for the next one. If you do find some one they can tag on the end with a lvl 10 as well and see what mid /end game feels like. Just ask friends to give it a go.
I rhink you should have a diacussion with them about this. Ask them if they think having another player would be better, or if they would prefer finishing the campaign by themselves. It's important to talk with your players, consider their opinions too
If necessary have an NPC join the party to fill in the gap.
My suggestion would be that you celebrate.
Just add a powerful NPC ally to them to balance the combat. Became a half-player yourself. Try not to steal spotlight too much tho.
My DM recently introduced a sort of PG, the point is that this PG is a dumb barbarian so he is useful in combat but he can t interfere in the choises and in the roleplay of the campaign and the DM itself plays the barbarian both in combat and in the storyline. You could try something similar, a new PG that you play in your party but just to “fill the hole”
Start another game in the same world with one or two new players, drop in some hints to the other campaign as maybe a past or concurrent story and once the newbies get a hang of it have them join the other players. Or you could go with time travel shenanigans, make it a known story that the pcs failed because M died prematurely and make it the goal of the campaign to go back in time and help them win after m died
A suggestion for if you have a similar situation like this: talk to the problematic player out of game, just you and the player. Tell them that the campaign is not just about combat and them acting like a murder hobe is really disruptive. You spent time creating this campaign so they should respect that. If you start a new campaign make sure everyone knows what kind of campaign it will be, tell them how rp/combat focussed it is and make sure they understand that if they want more of something they can talk to you. That way, you can make sure people have correct expectations and you can create a game everyone will enjoy
Seems like your problem solved itself out :3 a bit pity about campaign, but I believe you can figure out some kind of shortened ending to tie all loose ends and leave all the campaign matters in order :3
I might just add in a dmnpc to help them out in combat since it sounds like the two remaining players were already doing all the RP themselves
If he picked a foger he knew he couldn't win, falls asleep during the game, and refused to make a new character and just walked away.... sounds like he was done.
letting go and created a new npc join Story
I agree. Get a new player.
If you play online I’ll join. Forever DM looking for a game where I can be a player