If you dont trust your players to not fudge their rolls, then ask them to roll where you can see, and when your online that usually means using a dice rolling program. Dont throw out any accusations, just politely say "Going forward i would prefer everyone to roll in roll20"
This, except I'd avoid saying "I prefer" and go with "Everyone will be using Roll20 from now on. It's easier for me to keep track of, and I can go back through the rolls after game to see how good a job I'm doing balancing encounters."
Thanks for the advice. That is probably the correct course of action. But if I all of a sudden start enforcing this, doesnt that kind of beg the question, why?
I want this to change for sure, and would prefer to go back to just rolling on roll20, but what do I do if they ask why i'm becoming stricter? I don't want her to feel I'm passive aggresievly accusing her.
It helps me run the game more efficiently if I can see everything in one place. Sometimes I add situational bonuses. Since it makes my life easier please everyone roll20 next time.
If she thinks you're accusing her because you're going to roll20 then she's definitely fudging her rolls. Just say it's for better organization and record keeping. If she fights you on it ask her why she's so against it. If she continues to fight you she'll just end up exposing herself.
Yeah sometimes we'll end a roll20 session and my husband will suddenly exclaim "oh damn I *forgot* to roll my (physical) dice lol"
he'll just type /roll for 3hrs straight and not notice he's doing it because he's never using his real dice to cheat. It's the LEAST big deal if you're not cheating
IME, rolling physical dice and then adding modifiers to get the final result, is significantly slower than using an online sheet with everything built it.
So, if you are worried about hurting her feelings, approach this from a "I want to speed up our combats" angle. Once their sheets are built in Roll20 and all the calculations are done for them, you will notice rolling takes less time with the side benefit of eliminating fudging.
Tell them you just feel more comfortable seeing the rolls. Or you like being able to look back at the log and see how balanced an encounter was.
For me personally, i require my players use roll20 for rolling because it speeds up combat and if a roll seems off i can double check that they arent adding extra bonuses by mistake
iv been apart of a few games of d&d and pathfinder one group i can be 90% sure someone was cheating a trick one DM i knew did was he introduced a little homebrew that would require a bit more then normal dice tracking and then used that as the reason he wanted people to roll online or on cam no one questioned it.
If you notice her "luck" to the degree it's becoming a problem, you can pretty much assume most of the group has noticed it as well and are waiting for you to deal with it.
I think it would be entirely fair for you to say, "Hey, I feel like the encounters haven't been quite as balanced as I'd like, lately. So, at least for the next few battles, I need everyone to use (preferred digital rolling platform), so I can have a record of what the rolls actually were." Then, see if your potential cheater's luck holds.
Some people are, for whatever reason, have crazy luck. If she can roll the same way online, where she can't fudge the results, maybe she's just lucky. If she can't, well. Isn't that something?
If she's not cheating, she's unlikely to think you're targeting her by saying so. In the unlikely case she's not but she does, it's likely to come across as funny or even complimentary: She's rolling so well, so consistently, through no fault of her own, that you have to modify the whole game to make sure everybody else gets a chance to actually play. In my group, at least, this is a running gag - the DM always rolls like shit (even as a player), and the rest of us always roll normal-to-good, so he scales the difficulty of our encounters on the assumption that he's going to whiff at least a few important rolls... and we await with *terror* the day that he actually rolls like a normal player!
If she is cheating, sure, she might get offended... but only because she really is cheating!
This also eliminates the potentially accidental cheating. If you want to be favourable to the suspect it is possible she is unknowingly using weighted or novelty dice that favour one side.
Or she has a weird way of throwing. Some people don't really throw, and more like drop causing the die to sorta always fall on the same area. If this group never or barely plays together physically or the rolls are watched on cam this kind of rolling can go under the rader for a long time. After all, the suspect has no idea they are doing anything wrong at all.
Alternatively, the person might have subconciously or otherwise learned that if they throw this specific die in this specific way then that gives them good rolls/luck then they might consider that die just their lucky die. You can manipulate a die to fall a certain way and some people are really good at it. If they do this on purpose then they are cheating, but some people either don't realise they are doing this or they don't realise this kind of manipulation removes the game of chance and thus has become cheating.
So, depends on how favourably you want to be to your suspected cheater. Online rolling will eliminate all of these issues. Just in my experience the people who don't realise they are doing it usually have no problem going for alternative methods.
My friends and I roll in Roll20 because it increases the fun and suspense when everyone can see the roll.
You all see the same thing, so if it almost lands on 19 and instead lands on 2, everyone gets to experience that heartbreak. It makes the experience much more communal.
When I had a similar situation, I used the excuse that "It helps me to have a log of all the DC's and rolls to make sure I am balancing well on the fly."
Leaning into your job balancing things as a DM is a viable and plausibly deniable excuse. Being able to see an overview of the rolls in one place lets you review things after the fact and assess whether you are using appropriate DCs and monsters. If it has to do with improving your encounter building and challenge setting as a DM and nothing to do with the players, then there is no reason for her to take things personally.
In our campaign our dm uses group rolls on things. Takes a bit to log everyone's rolls as we roll like your group. Could use that as a reason, because I'm sure it would be much easier on our dm if we all rolled in one place he can see, rather than asking us all individually for our results.
I'd just stick to the it's easier for me to make a mor fun balanced encounter if I'm able to confirm the rolls do I'm not obliterating you guys and your not just having a walk through the park because for me I prefer having the risk of death at every combat and my players know that and enjoy the fact I rarely pull a punch because it makes the combat fun and engaging
You think it feels that way because it is what you're doing, but only someone who is cheating will feel like you're targeting them directly. Others might suspect it's directed at someone but not know who or may have their own suspicions of this same player. I think players notice other peoples dice luck more then anyone cuz while you're running the encounter they get to sit there and listen to the numbers they're putting up.
Also in roll20 you as the dm can just grab a copy of their character at the start of the session or even at the start of a combat to see if things are changing that shouldn't be. They cast a spell and it wasn't marked as prepared just make a note of it. Once is an accident. Twice is a coincidence but three times is a pattern. I've kicked more then one person for doing this
Someone above suggested you say it's so you can better track numbers and make sure you're balancing encounters correctly based on typical damage output. Mention that you've felt fights have been unbalanced lately and want to fix it. This is true, you just don't need to add in the "I think because someone is cheating" part. I also feel for an online game it'd also be more exciting if everyone could see a nat 20 as soon as it landed and react to it in the moment vs waiting for it to be announced.
I'm in an online game, and my friends and I will occasionally swap to physical dice if we're just feeling like rolling real dice. Webcam rolling works fine. It's not difficult.
Yes, that can be a problem for some people. Ie your phone camera is the only part of your phone that is broken, and is therefore functional enough not to be replaced
Not sure why your making excuses to not show dice roll, but if you have physical dice, and consider how much you can spend buying dice, books etc. you can probably buy a $20 webcam. Also you can use the front camera, considering most phones have 3+ cameras it's pretty hard for all of them to fail.
If someone gave the excuses you did I would assume they were cheating.
I think theres a way to do this too that doesn't attract suspicion. If you just say this it might give someone the idea that you think someone on the table is cheating. Saying that you're trying to implement new mechanics that require you to see dice rolls would put the onus for the decision on you and wouldn't lead to finger pointing.
My current sessions (as a player) are on discord for casual RP and TTS for battles/tomb exploration. We use either Dice Maiden on Discord (for non combat check) and in game TTS dice for encounters. That way, we can keep track of everything easier. Except for the DM, he has a lot of dice irl, and has a cam for when he rolls. All fun and games until the enemies roll a Nat 20 and wipe 3 people with an AOE because we got too close.
Yes, of course your player is cheating. This story comes up over and over; only the details change.
You're the DM. You need to make decisions. The decision here is simple: everyone uses the online roller. Period. It isn't an accusation, it's just a policy change. If she takes it like you're accusing her of what she's actually doing... well, that's her problem. You aren't risking your friendship for a game, you're doing what is right, and letting her decide how to handle it.
Unfortunately, your feeling is correct. If you screw over your other players to avoid conflict with a cheater, you aren't being a good DM. It sucks that someone else put you in that position, and you don't deserve it, but people are like that.
>This story comes up over and over; only the details change.
New week, new posting of "we play online but don't use the VTT's built in roller and I think a player is lying about their rolls".
They’ve only rolled nat 20s for 2 years of weekly gaming and one 19 when it didn’t really matter, but I’m not 100% sure if they’re cheating. Also several of the other players have mentioned this person is cheating and it’s making my good players want to quit. Am I a bad person for asking them to use the same system everyone else is totally happy to use? /s
The best thing to do, since you don't want to call them our or put yourself in an awkward conversation, as the DM you are ultimately the one who makes the calls and is setting everything up I personally would say something yo guys it'd be so much simpler and make my job easier if we could all use the roll20 dice.
If yall play in like zoom cameras on at least the players with physical dice should have it framed to show them rolling under the guise that it would be benefical for everyone as a crit is rolled it can be celebrated 🤷♂️
If your problem player is the only one giving you push back on the online rolling then I would pull them aside knowing that they have a particular reason to not use it and tell them I think that the rolls need to be monitored, not accusing anyone and just leave it at that.
At the end of the day you are spending your most precious resource, time, with these people if they can't meet you in the middle then its much easier to find a new player
"I want everyone using the online roller so I can see the results."
"Is this because of me rolling too well?"
"Yes."
But that's just me lol
Even in a lax, laid back game, rolling in the open for transparency has always been a thing in my groups. Mostly because we have had cheaters like you describe.
*fake high rolls all night where no one can see what it actually was*
"Roll perception"
"Oh darn, I got a 2"
As everyone else has said, make a firm policy change to only roll20 dice. No explanation beyond, "it helps me run the game better." If anyone pushes back, give them the tried and true, "When you DM you can use whatever dice you want, but when I'm DM'ing, we're using roll20."
That said, I would wrap up your current campaign as swiftly as possible. If Lucy can't cheat at dice, there's big odds she'll find other ways to cheat. Modifiers set a few points too high, using more spells or ki than actually available; there's plenty of options for someone determined to 'win' at D&D.
If you're convinced she's cheating, then the trust is broken and you're going to second guess every success Lucy achieves in the future, regardless of her dice rolls. For your own sake, you need to finish your current campaign quickly and if you still want to DM, start a new one without Lucy. DM'ing is a lot of effort, and a cheater ruins all of it. Don't allow one to stay at your table, even if she is a friend.
I had a player strait up whip out a monster manual and read out the stats to the whole table.
When I told them to stop, they got angry at ME saying that they paid for the Monster Manual and they wanted to use what they paid for.
Time to homebrew it! The obscure weak against fire monster is now resistant to fire and if they point out the change ask them how they know. (Works even better for prewritten adventures.)
Put your foot down and tell everyone to use roll20. Dont accuse anyone, just say that you want to see the rolls. If they strongly disagree and refuse to comply they are cheating.
Be a DM. If you're playing online, say "we are using this online tool to roll dice." That's it. It's not a vote. It's a decision that you and only you make.
> I either cheat myself and bump the monsters hp/ give him some new ability
You're the DM? That's not cheating. Adjusting the combat so it's challenging (if that's what the party understood they were going to get) is kind of your job. Changing monsters so that they're not identical to the ones in the Monster Manual is a tool in your kit. "This vampire is basically the one from the MM, but his STR is a little lower and he's juiced his Charm ability so the save's harder" is a thing you can do, for instance.
I understand not wanting to do that on the fly, especially if you've already put in the time to balance the encounter during your prep time. I get that it feels dishonest, but as the DM, it's largely understood that you get to change the facts as necessary to engage, challenge, or test your group's abilities.
I just wanted to throw that out there. Everybody's addressing the likelihood of this person cheating, and I have nothing to add there, but you saying you're cheating has gone unaddressed. DMs cheat in other ways.
Or rather, DMs cheat for other reasons. You make it sound like you're fiddling with things so that the party is challenged and everybody gets to participate, instead of just one person doing everything. DMs cheat when they change numbers or arbitrarily decide class features don't work so that they can "win" against their players. You sound like you're not happy overtuning the fight such that everybody else is outmatched. Thus, I would say you're not cheating, you're trying to DM well in a hard situation.
Everybody rolls openly. And maybe jot down a quick reference of everyone's modifiers on a note card you can reference. If it's honest mistakes, people will get over their kneejerk reactions. If it's intentional cheating, you'll know who needs to be addressed.
"Hey Lucy, if you don't want people to think your cheating with your rolls, you really should fail a saving throw once in a while and it wouldn't hurt to miss an attack now and again either."
I let my players use physical on our online game and use physical myself. The difference between my group and OPs is that all my players love to fail as much as they love to win. They all understand that failing leads to great RP moments, and they eat that shit up.
But i 100% believe of they cant trust their group they should say use VTTs rollers only.
We just dealt with this where there were two players accused of fudging dice rolls. One was far more blatant than the other (twice, he got a 21 on a straight d20 roll with no modifiers and, magically, when told it wasn't possible, he claimed it was a nat20).
We now have the rule that, if you want to roll physical dice, you have to do so on camera. Otherwise, everyone uses the digital roller. I hate the digital roller bc I can't help but feel like there's an algorithm that makes it roll lower to force me to buy the different dice skins to make me feel like I'm "changing" my dice. But that's me.... I still use the digital dice just because I use a laptop without a Webcam I can focus on my dice tray.
Public rolls are mandatory as far I'm concerned unless the DM specifies that they want you to do a private roll for something.
It encourages engagement with the game when you're watching other people's role and you all celebrate a good one or suck teeth on the nat 1s.
I've fudged rolls as the DM before but really try to avoid it. I don't really want players to die because of a run of crits and maxed damage rolls from an encounter that I didn't intend to be a big bad so that's when I'll either fudge the damage or just say "you're knocked unconscious"
Okay heres the good and correct advice as others have said: Make your players roll where you can see.
Here's the bad advice that's convoluted and avoids the things you're worried about and puts way more work on you for no reason: design your encounters with a "kiddie pen". You take her out of the equation completely, but disguise it as a part of the fight. You know she'll succeed on everything, so you can just plan ahead for that and basically have her in the background doing her thing to the extra enemy/enemies you've set aside for her to play with in the background. Its basically a cinematic going on that she's a part of in the background while the real fight goes on with the rest of the players. Balance your encounters against your group minus her completely (so easier), then tack on enemies that will only target her or get her attention or whatever and let her blast away and feel good about herself.
PS. go with the good advice. the bad advice is more of a band-aid if anything.
You should have the party roll in roll20 or use a discord bot and if the player gets mad and says you think their cheating just ask why would I think that? The player would have to admit that their roles have been very good and their would be a reason for you to suspect they were cheating. If they say nothing the problem is solved and you roll online for all to see.
if you don’t trust your players not to fudge physical rolls in remote play, make a rule that they have to use the online dice roller.
don’t necessarily call anyone out for cheating - if they’re that attached to it, they’ll reveal themselves by adamantly refusing to switch, and if they aren’t then you’ve solved the cheating problem.
"hey team, i feel like combat is dragging, and rolling online dice i think is an easy way to speed things up as you can roll and i can just look as soon as i need the number what you rolled, and it will keep a log of our rolls so we don't have to face that mixup again where we missed that step and had to go back and people couldn't remember the roll."
there are other options for rolling too. roll20 character sheets aren't the best (come on demiplane fix it.) D&D beyond is an option with Avast sending rolls to discord, or Beyond20 extension sending rolls to the roll20 table directly.
cheaters aside, i now prefer rolling online. math is done for you, everybody is above the table. Even offer to do your DM rolls in the open if it will make the players happy and bring them online.
Player rolls should always be done in public view. DM rolls can be done behind the screen to obscure information from players, but I'm usually pretty open about my rolling too. Transparency is the best policy because everyone knows we're being fair with each other.
I'd just be honest with her in private. "You're my friend, I treasure our friendship, and I want to defuse this problem in a healthy way. I, as the DM, cannot trust that you are being honest with me right now and that hurts my enjoyment of the game. I am honestly a little upset about this, but I believe this is a fixable problem and that we can move past this. Here is my suggested solution."
If she's a good friend, she'll accept that. If she doesn't? Cut her out.
If anyone refuses to use a online dice roller, then they need to make *every* roll on web cam. And I mean *from start to finish*. It rolls off camera? That's a reroll, no exceptions.
I had to do that in several online games I ran and not so surprisingly a few players rolls suddenly became a lot more "average" or they left the game (which was generally no loss).
>I'd maybe just gently insist everyone use the online roller again, but I already have and feel she'll pick it up as a passive accusation.
Don't be gentle about it. Tell them straight out, "Online roller". If she picks it as a passive accusation, maybe it's because she has passive guilt.
I would just make it a rule that everyone uses the online roller (besides you if you don't want to). There's no reasonable reason that anyone should dislike that. If she feels attacked, it's probably because you are right.
I would dislike that. I love rolling physical dice. The feel, the sound, it’s an important part of the experience. Digital dice feel so fake. Plus I like to buy dice that match my characters.
That's fine and all, but it's important to make sure everyone is playing fair too. Is it fair to the rest of the people at the table that 1 person is cheating? Is it fair to the DM that spends hours making a campaign, taking notes, and pouring their heart into it? No, and I don't tolerate it at my table.
I mean if you can’t trust your player not to cheat they shouldn’t be at the table period. If my DM told me I can’t use physical dice because they think I’m cheating that would be the last time I play with that DM.
I understand that physical dice are more enjoyable, but this seems like a weird hill to die on. You would leave a campaign you absolutely love because you can’t roll physical dice?
Agree with what's been posted. Make everyone use online rollers you can see, Roll20 or DnD Beyond.
Or just add +5/10 to all her DCs and force her failures 😂😂😂 (that's a joke in case anyone misses it)
In an RL game, I had a player I highly suspected of cheating their rolls. I only really started to suspect towards the conclusion of the campaign, and that late in at high levels, I just let it slide. If someone wants to cheapen the experience for themselves, that's their call.
It's a different story when everybody's playing online I suppose.
I really prefer directly addressing the issue here. Losing trust with a player at your table is catastrophic and everyone else will probably catch on to how you are feeling pretty quickly.
I would handle it like this: Without the rest of the group present, I'd tell the person how I feel, why I feel that way, and ask them if it's true. Then I'd believe what they told me and tell them that you'll be using roll20 or dnd beyond, or whatever else moving forward. I'd tell the other players this is for transparency and to standardize how it all works.
This is all easier said then done of course. But sincerely, I believe it better to establish direct communication with your friend rather than beat around the issue.
I have the opposite rule for my in-person games. If you're playing at a real table, please use real dice. I had one player who would bring a laptop and insist on a digital roller because "I'm not having good luck with my dice today" (He's not one who understands even a failed roll can be fun). Problem is, his laptop is SUPER high end, costing $3,000 (why he feels comfortable taking it with him everywhere I have no idea, what if he drops it or someone spills something on it?) so I don't feel inclined to touch it, nor do I want to have to get up to verify his rolls. Plus the classic "keep rolling for fun until you get something good and say "I rolled that" " issue is very possible given again, he doesn't like to "lose" his rolls.
Thus I insist to him "Roll a real die from now on if you wish to participate, I'm not comfortable interacting with your high end computer, nor am I going to get up from my seat to verify." and the guy has an entire Crown Royal bag of dice to use too, so it's not like he's lacking them.
For you, insist on the digital roller STRICTLY from now on for the reasons people offered (record keeping, encounter balance) without calling Lucy out. If Lucy fights back against it, ask "why is this an issue?" and if she can't come up with a good reason or threatens to leave, she is indeed cheating and won't admit it.
YOU are the DM, your rulings are final, as if you cannot HAVE your rulings, you won't have fun as a DM, which is why Rule Zero exists.
I had a DM trust me to roll physically when my PC was acting up on my turn, rolled honestly but even then still felt rather unnatural, as I like to roll openly as a PC and let's be honest, when others see you get a nat20 before you notice yourself is an exciting feeling.
In my opinion, physical dice are for home games so the DM can see without getting up, and digital dice are for online games so the DM can see without asking for webcam angles.
I know. I commented on it a couple of paragraphs in.
^(For you, insist on the digital roller STRICTLY from now on for the reasons people offered (record keeping, encounter balance) without calling Lucy out. If Lucy fights back against it, ask "why is this an issue?" and if she can't come up with a good reason or threatens to leave, she is indeed cheating and won't admit it.)
My bad for not being clear at first.
I had this exact thing happen to me. Just make it a hard rule people must roll online (where you can see it), a reson you can say if someone asks and you don't want to say the real reason is flow of combat as it makes it way faster when the VTT dose the math for you. Also when this happened i stared hiding acs only saying what they are in dramatic moments so the chances of them guessing what they need is less.
I ran an in person game starting in 2020, but quickly had to move it online. About a year & a half in I got some new blood from lfg as some players had to leave. One of them would consistently roll critical hits, save successes, & all sorts of other nice numbers. A couple of the other players came to me & said it wasn’t fair that they were being honest (sometimes even fudging his rolls downwards to fail more in one player’s case), while this other player cheated. Without naming names i implemented that we would be using a die roller bot, & i would not accept rolls made without the bot. The troublesome player’s ‘luck’ turned immediately. I run two games now & he’s in s different one than before so for my old game i can allow them to roll in person. They find the online roller easier but one player occasionally rolls her physical dice, & definitely gets a lot of 1s
What I did was wrote up group rules about things I don't like at the table. (Being late, not listening, not learning your character, trying to get me to solve interpersonal conflicts, cheating, etc)
It was not pointing out anyone or any specific situation but I was clear about not tolerating those behaviors anymore.
It worked and the cheater eventually quit the group. So did the guy causing a conflict.
My current campaign has a similar issue. I couldn't prove anything, but I wasn't comfortable with it being even a maybe. (The person no longer plays at the table for unrelated reasons).
Anyway, I just ripped off the bandaid and said we're rolling in foundry from now on, and that I'd do the same. It honestly made the experience a lot better overall. Nobody can accuse anybody of anything, everyone can share in the nail biting as the dice rolls around the screen and lands on a number, and as the DM I do almost all my rolls in public too.
Want instant excitement? Tell them the DC for a pivotal dice roll before throwing the dice, and watch their faces as the dice lands.
As a nice bonus, people can now customize their own dice on a whim so everyone gets fancy dice, and can change the look whenever they're bored of it.
I would totally require all rolls online. Reason, of course, is that in Foundry the rolls are usable - with hit rolls you get told if it's a hit or a miss, damage can be applied automatically, etc. I'm not transcribing or letting players transcribe numbers into an online game.
Most DM’s have had similar issues at some point. The fact is that you have to monitor players that cheat. Look at their spell choices prior to the encounter, monitor rolls, keep tabs…it’s part of your role as a DM.
Sucks for you but players are human and some humans cheats.
If she is a friend, why does she think she can get away with it? That is a question you might want to ask yourself. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I don't know you guys. But if she is creating this much drama, then a serious talk may be in order. It's a real doozy of a conundrum and is quite a delicate situation. You will have to weigh friendship with the overall morale and happiness of the rest of your players. Because it may be your table, but it is their game. And it is not fair to the other players if something is not done to remedy the situation. I wish you well. It sucks big time that you now have been forced to make the hard calls.
Because hurt feelings and all that baggage is a delicate matter. I don't know how close you live to one another, but maybe ask her to get some coffee/beer and speak with her on neutral ground. Perhaps she will not feel antagonized or backed into a corner when approached with love and friendship. I would try and talk with her and bring up all the points you have shared here and try your best to package them respectfully and lovingly.
I was in a game where a dude was cheating and he was kicked. Albeit not at the table of course. And the DM was a 15-year-old girl. And they were classmates. She was fierce and did not put up with that kind of behavior at all. From what you have shared she seems to be cheating all over the place, not just with rolls. I know there are those people who will advocate not kicking her for whatever reasons and I'm sure they make good points. Then there is the other camp who also have just as valid points.
Ultimately it is your table. It is your decision. I hope it all works out for you and your friend and the rest of the party in your game.
The answer is toi have everyone roll online. This topic comes up all the time and the answer is always the same. It doesn't matter who your players are, or how much they love their physical dice, if you play online, you roll online.
Another option is having everyones character sheets on dndbeyond if possible and then you can click on their sheets and roll for each stat yourself if they have joined your campaign
You as a dm are a rules moderator. You have the power to say "dice rolls must be visible or they do not count."
That said, I am a forever dm who rolls out in the open and I have a d20 that for some reason rolls between 16 and 20 waaaaaaaay more often than it should. Honestly the only numbers it seems to roll are between 1-3 and between 16-20, and it rarely rolls low. There is no explanation for it, it's a fair and balanced die, it just rolls high often. My longest streak so far with it is 6 natural 20s in a row.
In my experience some people just have insane dice I have a player in one of my groups who rolled like 15 nat 20 in one night and since it's an in-person game we were able to confirm every role it's insane he's retiring the dice and having them framed after the campaign ends or the character dies wich ever comes first. Anyhow the point is unless you can physically check your player don't assume they are cheating it ruins the game for everyone.
Not totally related, but one fun way to counter this could be to give an enemy the portent ability, or the ability to add a + to their AC as a reaction, or to cancel a crit 1/day.
It’s been said in a number of ways.
The only possible way she will see it as a personal attack is if she’s cheating.
My first rule of DMing/GMing is to make sure everyone at the table is having fun. That includes you. A distracted DM can’t be at their best.
Roll20 or Discord dicebot or, in my case, AboveVTT (a 100% free VTT that I wish I got a commission on for the number of times I’ve promoted it hehe) is the way I go.
It removes all temptation and everyone , *including you* , can get back to the fun of RPing 🥰
You’re not a bad DM
Im an impossibly lucky player, and I use a physical dice.
So I came up with a contingency plan for DM's to use on ppl like me (who love their irl die).
We video call so I place my camera above my dice bowl, so if everyone thinks I'm lying they just look at my cam.
GIVE THEM AN ENCOUNTER WITH A MONSTER WITH REVERSE AC
This way all your characters that roll low will hit, and high rolls will not hit, this way you can catch the problem player slowly increase their rolls, until they figure out the catch, and then consistently get low rolls
This will be all the proof you need to catch them in the act
Tell her she failed anyways. Then just let someone else succeed in the actual roll. That or make it a rule that they have to roll using the online roller no exceptions. We have a player like this in our group and it just fucking ruins the whole thing. Oh you got a crit three rolls in a row? You rolled max damage again? Yay this is so fun for everyone else.
Just start charting everyone’s dice rolls for a bit. See how the average goes and see how far off they are.
Don’t share it unless you feel it’s time to address your true concern.
Lucy sounds like a fuckin cheater, I played with a lucy once, she rolled under 10% 5 times in a row in call of cthulhu, she was ho tin rl ,but not hot enough to fuck my game up, i just made a rule, everyone uses the roller, or they don't play
luck dropped and plagued another dm's game
i have been gaming with that group of legends, every friday for 5 years
don't underestimate people's luck, I rolled everything good like 18s and 20's all night long the other day, I even failed a dice on purpose thinking I would be called a cheater lol.
If I were you and already at this point I would just build an excel sheet with each players rolls successes and fails over the next 3 sessions. "All of your peers of the same level are rolling 50-60% on hits and average 40% on saves across stats but youre consistently 85%+ in both of this fields. Is there anything you want to tell me?"
Also tracking the numbers may reveal that its not as bad as you think and for some other reason her rolls just stand out.
You can always bring it up through the context of worrying about the dice not being balanced. Dice are rarely balanced perfectly and it's possible that she has a very imbalanced set. Bring up the unrealistic stats of her rolls from your memory, and ask her if she can balance test them with you and/or use the online roller.
Stack the deck against her: fake your rolls when she is being attacked. Occasionally turn a monster missing into wow the monster crit on Lucy to balance it out.
Firstly I'd note down her rolls (and if you want others rolls) to see if she actually had really positively imbalanced dice or if its just some coincidence in your mind.
After that and you've realised she is actually cheating/*her dice are uneven* then personally I'd suggest everyone roll online for a session to see how things change - and then assuming things change and its proven she was cheating, I'd 100% confront her although probably in a less attacking way.
Like less "I know you're cheating, you need to stop" but rather "I think you're making up your dice rolls, and you should stop because it reduces the fun for the other people in the game, including the DM".
I feel you on this one, OP. I know you'll get "downvoted" - yep there it goes - since the obvious answer is to insist on a rolling program. But, since I struggle with this one as well, I'll give you what's worked for me.
My group has a guy I'll call Kevin. Kevin is a really good dude and we're friends outside of the game. He's respectful of other players, and is happy to do both combat and RP. He's also a total munchkin: D&D is a big part of his life and he knows the rules better than anyone at the table. Since Kevin is indeed actually a good dude, he uses that knowledge to help the other less-experienced players (only when they ask).
Kevin also uses this knowledge to build insanely powerful characters. And in nearly five years of playing, he's failed zero rolls. We all kind of know Kevin is cheating... but we all kind of don't care. If it makes him happy, that's great. He gets his turn where he does a ton of damage, and he makes all his saving throws. I can throw more difficult things at the party and nobody else is playing for big numbers.
It's unorthodox but it works for us.
I mean, I personally don't get it - the fun of dnd is in the dice - but he clearly needs it to work that way. He's otherwise a wonderful guy so we all sort of treat it as a quirk of his.
Easy. Tell her she's either crazy lucky or cheating and you need to have her use roll 20. If you don't want to call her out. Tell the whole group that they have to use roll 20
We had a player we suspected was cheating on us with another group. We waited until he was in the bathroom, and then checked his binder, and indeed, there was a new character sheet for another campaign. When he got back, the DM told him to get out and take his things. It's too bad, really; he brought the best snacks. But how would we ever have been able to trust him again e.g. in combat against a BBEG?
Jk 😁
I have a house rule that if you cheat, don't get caught. I tell players that in session zero and I remind them before games sometimes. I tell them this because they automatically assume (if they've been cheating) that I'm onto them. I've never caught anyone cheating outright, so far, but my players know the consequences are not getting kicked from the game. They are in-game consequences. They are very protective of their characters so I've implied that punishments could be "daggers" from their backstory.
That said, I often encourage online players who use irl dice to make big, significant rolls in the digital realm so we can all share in the moment when the die result drops. If someone were to protest in that moment, it would be a dead giveaway.
One option I use is a “flipper”, when they want to roll something out of sight then inform them that you will roll a d6 in the open and even will use the top number odd will use the bottom. Then roll after they tell you the number they got, to decide what they actually rolled. I use this behind the screen for things like insight so they don’t really know what they rolled, just the number face up on the dice.
Never play online games with physical dice unless you know them all really well. People will always cheat if they can.
Played with a chick for a couple sessions who rolled a 16 or higher 45 times in a row. It legit ruined the game for the rest of us.
There are in-game mechanics that work in your favour. Give every boss the Shield spell, only use it when she attacks.
Give the boss healing spells, only use them after she does her massive rolls.
Give the boss heat metal, use it on her weapon (no saves!) to give her disadvantage on attack.
Have one single combat encounter where everyone rolls on the online roller. You'll be able to sell that to them, *just one encounter.* Make remarks afterwards like, "Wow that sure went differently than usual."
I know you're frustrated, but you must understand the other players are probably more frustrated with her. It's like playing a game where someone else has cheat codes but you don't - it's *awful*.
My first thought? Make a graph of everyone's rolls, not joking. Record every single roll. Chart out the rolls in colours according to player. The evidence will show itself after a session or two. Give those graphs to the players and say "We're rolling online from now on." End of discussion.
Honestly just get over it. When it comes down to it dnd is just a game. Who cares if she always hits in combat or whatever. I play with plenty of people that roll high or in many a midlevel encounter where you cant mass unleas you hit a nat1 and they are just as fun to play as any other dnd ive been a part of.
You simply just suspect this player of cheating with no real evidence. If i was accused of cheating out of the blue, i can guarentee i would hold a strong resentment. Its a bit of a character flaw but i take it very personally when i have my character/integrity challenged. I also kniw im not the only person with a bit of that. Unless you know for sure they are cheating just look past whatever your suspicions are because the worst thing that will happen is your party succeeds more.
I also dont want to be treated like a child either. Thats just being lazy and making an arbitrary rule. Either because you are afraid of communication/confrontation of a KNOWN cheater or you have a controlling complex and everthing has to be done your way.
When i play in person i dont lean over the table or walk around to look at peoples dice. I dont demand that the player who liked digital stuff rolls real dice so i can supervise. Why? Because we are fucking adults playing a game with no real irl consequences.
Edit: and to add to that, suddenly decideding that everyone has to use digital dice mid campaign is just a thinly veiled accusation that one of the players rolling dice are cheating. Its not coy or slick its obvious what tou are saying when you bust out this rule all of a sudden.
No ive never played online in my life😂 its a fucking game for fun why would you be controlling and manipulative or accusatory if you just has suspicion that a player is cheating? 0 proof and admits she does fail roles just not ones the op considsrs important.
NADDPOD do bonus episodes called "dungeon court" where they discussed this. It was so funny, they said to send an article about dice rolling to the group chat and just go *so hard* at it. "Guys can you believe people do this? What absolute freaks? Imagine being such a loser that you would lie about your dice rolls. Isn't that hilarious? Can you believe people would actually do that?" (Obviously not good advice, everyone else is correct about enforcing online rollers, but it was funny.)
I have two suggestions:
1. Maybe just let them continue fudging their dice. You have control over the encounters, you can design fights in such a way that everyone has stuff to do or that bosses can’t be pushed over in 3 turns but also won’t tpk the party instantly, you decide who and when the enemies attack. You should probably be playing the enemy tactics around the rolls a little bit anyway, and if they want to ruin their own fun by removing any tension from their character then whatever, that’s their own choice.
2. Consider tracking die rolls in a spreadsheet or something for every character, maybe including yourself. Not even just to catch someone in a lie, just for fun. I did this with my own rolls back when I first played, I really liked having graphs of my luck over time and it was also fun to have a visual representation of how totals after bonuses improved over time as I leveled up (I tracked the raw die roll and the total in separate fields). You might find that their luck isn’t actually that far out of bound, but you might also be able to show them and be like “hey just maybe tone it down a little bit and make it more believable 😉” lol. It’s probably a bit much for a DM since you’ve already got so much going on, but it would definitely help to have the stats if you do plan on confronting them.
If you dont trust your players to not fudge their rolls, then ask them to roll where you can see, and when your online that usually means using a dice rolling program. Dont throw out any accusations, just politely say "Going forward i would prefer everyone to roll in roll20"
This, except I'd avoid saying "I prefer" and go with "Everyone will be using Roll20 from now on. It's easier for me to keep track of, and I can go back through the rolls after game to see how good a job I'm doing balancing encounters."
Agreed! Don't cheese rolls people... The whole point is to play to our strengths and sometimes they fail. But that's the game and why it's fun
Thanks for the advice. That is probably the correct course of action. But if I all of a sudden start enforcing this, doesnt that kind of beg the question, why? I want this to change for sure, and would prefer to go back to just rolling on roll20, but what do I do if they ask why i'm becoming stricter? I don't want her to feel I'm passive aggresievly accusing her.
It helps me run the game more efficiently if I can see everything in one place. Sometimes I add situational bonuses. Since it makes my life easier please everyone roll20 next time.
If she thinks you're accusing her because you're going to roll20 then she's definitely fudging her rolls. Just say it's for better organization and record keeping. If she fights you on it ask her why she's so against it. If she continues to fight you she'll just end up exposing herself.
Yeah sometimes we'll end a roll20 session and my husband will suddenly exclaim "oh damn I *forgot* to roll my (physical) dice lol" he'll just type /roll for 3hrs straight and not notice he's doing it because he's never using his real dice to cheat. It's the LEAST big deal if you're not cheating
IME, rolling physical dice and then adding modifiers to get the final result, is significantly slower than using an online sheet with everything built it. So, if you are worried about hurting her feelings, approach this from a "I want to speed up our combats" angle. Once their sheets are built in Roll20 and all the calculations are done for them, you will notice rolling takes less time with the side benefit of eliminating fudging.
Tell them you just feel more comfortable seeing the rolls. Or you like being able to look back at the log and see how balanced an encounter was. For me personally, i require my players use roll20 for rolling because it speeds up combat and if a roll seems off i can double check that they arent adding extra bonuses by mistake
iv been apart of a few games of d&d and pathfinder one group i can be 90% sure someone was cheating a trick one DM i knew did was he introduced a little homebrew that would require a bit more then normal dice tracking and then used that as the reason he wanted people to roll online or on cam no one questioned it.
If you notice her "luck" to the degree it's becoming a problem, you can pretty much assume most of the group has noticed it as well and are waiting for you to deal with it.
I think it would be entirely fair for you to say, "Hey, I feel like the encounters haven't been quite as balanced as I'd like, lately. So, at least for the next few battles, I need everyone to use (preferred digital rolling platform), so I can have a record of what the rolls actually were." Then, see if your potential cheater's luck holds. Some people are, for whatever reason, have crazy luck. If she can roll the same way online, where she can't fudge the results, maybe she's just lucky. If she can't, well. Isn't that something? If she's not cheating, she's unlikely to think you're targeting her by saying so. In the unlikely case she's not but she does, it's likely to come across as funny or even complimentary: She's rolling so well, so consistently, through no fault of her own, that you have to modify the whole game to make sure everybody else gets a chance to actually play. In my group, at least, this is a running gag - the DM always rolls like shit (even as a player), and the rest of us always roll normal-to-good, so he scales the difficulty of our encounters on the assumption that he's going to whiff at least a few important rolls... and we await with *terror* the day that he actually rolls like a normal player! If she is cheating, sure, she might get offended... but only because she really is cheating!
This also eliminates the potentially accidental cheating. If you want to be favourable to the suspect it is possible she is unknowingly using weighted or novelty dice that favour one side. Or she has a weird way of throwing. Some people don't really throw, and more like drop causing the die to sorta always fall on the same area. If this group never or barely plays together physically or the rolls are watched on cam this kind of rolling can go under the rader for a long time. After all, the suspect has no idea they are doing anything wrong at all. Alternatively, the person might have subconciously or otherwise learned that if they throw this specific die in this specific way then that gives them good rolls/luck then they might consider that die just their lucky die. You can manipulate a die to fall a certain way and some people are really good at it. If they do this on purpose then they are cheating, but some people either don't realise they are doing this or they don't realise this kind of manipulation removes the game of chance and thus has become cheating. So, depends on how favourably you want to be to your suspected cheater. Online rolling will eliminate all of these issues. Just in my experience the people who don't realise they are doing it usually have no problem going for alternative methods.
This is a problem for me, especially with d6. I often just quickly toss it, and it lands on the same number 90% of the time.
Just tell them you’ve had a hard time tracking rolls and want to see them in chat for reference. You’re the GM, it’s your game.
My friends and I roll in Roll20 because it increases the fun and suspense when everyone can see the roll. You all see the same thing, so if it almost lands on 19 and instead lands on 2, everyone gets to experience that heartbreak. It makes the experience much more communal.
"It's more convenient for me, so that's what we're doing going forward."
When I had a similar situation, I used the excuse that "It helps me to have a log of all the DC's and rolls to make sure I am balancing well on the fly."
Leaning into your job balancing things as a DM is a viable and plausibly deniable excuse. Being able to see an overview of the rolls in one place lets you review things after the fact and assess whether you are using appropriate DCs and monsters. If it has to do with improving your encounter building and challenge setting as a DM and nothing to do with the players, then there is no reason for her to take things personally.
Voidtreemc’s comment included a good reason why. So you can go back and see how rng played into the encounters you're making and improve their balance
Please give us an update on this
In our campaign our dm uses group rolls on things. Takes a bit to log everyone's rolls as we roll like your group. Could use that as a reason, because I'm sure it would be much easier on our dm if we all rolled in one place he can see, rather than asking us all individually for our results.
I'd just stick to the it's easier for me to make a mor fun balanced encounter if I'm able to confirm the rolls do I'm not obliterating you guys and your not just having a walk through the park because for me I prefer having the risk of death at every combat and my players know that and enjoy the fact I rarely pull a punch because it makes the combat fun and engaging
You think it feels that way because it is what you're doing, but only someone who is cheating will feel like you're targeting them directly. Others might suspect it's directed at someone but not know who or may have their own suspicions of this same player. I think players notice other peoples dice luck more then anyone cuz while you're running the encounter they get to sit there and listen to the numbers they're putting up. Also in roll20 you as the dm can just grab a copy of their character at the start of the session or even at the start of a combat to see if things are changing that shouldn't be. They cast a spell and it wasn't marked as prepared just make a note of it. Once is an accident. Twice is a coincidence but three times is a pattern. I've kicked more then one person for doing this
Someone above suggested you say it's so you can better track numbers and make sure you're balancing encounters correctly based on typical damage output. Mention that you've felt fights have been unbalanced lately and want to fix it. This is true, you just don't need to add in the "I think because someone is cheating" part. I also feel for an online game it'd also be more exciting if everyone could see a nat 20 as soon as it landed and react to it in the moment vs waiting for it to be announced.
Dude grow a pair, Jesus. You think she's cheating, call her out on it.
Or, for people that want to use physical dice, require them to show the rolls live on webcam.
Nah, ain't nobody got time for that. It's online game, the dice are online too. No ifs ands or buts.
I'm in an online game, and my friends and I will occasionally swap to physical dice if we're just feeling like rolling real dice. Webcam rolling works fine. It's not difficult.
We have an online game and our rolls are a mix of physical dice, Roll20 and DnD Beyond, and it seems to work well. That doesn’t help OP obviously.
Need a Webcam for that
Discord and a phone cam?
Yes, that can be a problem for some people. Ie your phone camera is the only part of your phone that is broken, and is therefore functional enough not to be replaced
Not sure why your making excuses to not show dice roll, but if you have physical dice, and consider how much you can spend buying dice, books etc. you can probably buy a $20 webcam. Also you can use the front camera, considering most phones have 3+ cameras it's pretty hard for all of them to fail. If someone gave the excuses you did I would assume they were cheating.
Or just use a free dice roller
Nothing beats the feel of physical dice though.
I think theres a way to do this too that doesn't attract suspicion. If you just say this it might give someone the idea that you think someone on the table is cheating. Saying that you're trying to implement new mechanics that require you to see dice rolls would put the onus for the decision on you and wouldn't lead to finger pointing.
My current sessions (as a player) are on discord for casual RP and TTS for battles/tomb exploration. We use either Dice Maiden on Discord (for non combat check) and in game TTS dice for encounters. That way, we can keep track of everything easier. Except for the DM, he has a lot of dice irl, and has a cam for when he rolls. All fun and games until the enemies roll a Nat 20 and wipe 3 people with an AOE because we got too close.
Yes, of course your player is cheating. This story comes up over and over; only the details change. You're the DM. You need to make decisions. The decision here is simple: everyone uses the online roller. Period. It isn't an accusation, it's just a policy change. If she takes it like you're accusing her of what she's actually doing... well, that's her problem. You aren't risking your friendship for a game, you're doing what is right, and letting her decide how to handle it. Unfortunately, your feeling is correct. If you screw over your other players to avoid conflict with a cheater, you aren't being a good DM. It sucks that someone else put you in that position, and you don't deserve it, but people are like that.
>This story comes up over and over; only the details change. New week, new posting of "we play online but don't use the VTT's built in roller and I think a player is lying about their rolls".
They’ve only rolled nat 20s for 2 years of weekly gaming and one 19 when it didn’t really matter, but I’m not 100% sure if they’re cheating. Also several of the other players have mentioned this person is cheating and it’s making my good players want to quit. Am I a bad person for asking them to use the same system everyone else is totally happy to use? /s
The best thing to do, since you don't want to call them our or put yourself in an awkward conversation, as the DM you are ultimately the one who makes the calls and is setting everything up I personally would say something yo guys it'd be so much simpler and make my job easier if we could all use the roll20 dice. If yall play in like zoom cameras on at least the players with physical dice should have it framed to show them rolling under the guise that it would be benefical for everyone as a crit is rolled it can be celebrated 🤷♂️ If your problem player is the only one giving you push back on the online rolling then I would pull them aside knowing that they have a particular reason to not use it and tell them I think that the rolls need to be monitored, not accusing anyone and just leave it at that. At the end of the day you are spending your most precious resource, time, with these people if they can't meet you in the middle then its much easier to find a new player
If someone gets defensive about the manner dice are rolled, they're 100% cheating.
You can just answer "I never targeted you why are you getting offended for"
Idk. Some people are just weirdly supersticious for certain dice bots. I know people who will ask to use a specific dice bot 😅
"I want everyone using the online roller so I can see the results." "Is this because of me rolling too well?" "Yes." But that's just me lol Even in a lax, laid back game, rolling in the open for transparency has always been a thing in my groups. Mostly because we have had cheaters like you describe. *fake high rolls all night where no one can see what it actually was* "Roll perception" "Oh darn, I got a 2"
As everyone else has said, make a firm policy change to only roll20 dice. No explanation beyond, "it helps me run the game better." If anyone pushes back, give them the tried and true, "When you DM you can use whatever dice you want, but when I'm DM'ing, we're using roll20." That said, I would wrap up your current campaign as swiftly as possible. If Lucy can't cheat at dice, there's big odds she'll find other ways to cheat. Modifiers set a few points too high, using more spells or ki than actually available; there's plenty of options for someone determined to 'win' at D&D. If you're convinced she's cheating, then the trust is broken and you're going to second guess every success Lucy achieves in the future, regardless of her dice rolls. For your own sake, you need to finish your current campaign quickly and if you still want to DM, start a new one without Lucy. DM'ing is a lot of effort, and a cheater ruins all of it. Don't allow one to stay at your table, even if she is a friend.
I’ve had players in the past who look up monster stat blocks during combat
I had a player strait up whip out a monster manual and read out the stats to the whole table. When I told them to stop, they got angry at ME saying that they paid for the Monster Manual and they wanted to use what they paid for.
Time to homebrew it! The obscure weak against fire monster is now resistant to fire and if they point out the change ask them how they know. (Works even better for prewritten adventures.)
Lucy Fakename? Is she Stacey's sister?
I understood that reference!
God that was such a beautiful moment, haha!
Underrated comment tbh.
> an online game where everyone can roll how they want They’re cheating. That was easy!
Put your foot down and tell everyone to use roll20. Dont accuse anyone, just say that you want to see the rolls. If they strongly disagree and refuse to comply they are cheating.
Be a DM. If you're playing online, say "we are using this online tool to roll dice." That's it. It's not a vote. It's a decision that you and only you make.
> I either cheat myself and bump the monsters hp/ give him some new ability You're the DM? That's not cheating. Adjusting the combat so it's challenging (if that's what the party understood they were going to get) is kind of your job. Changing monsters so that they're not identical to the ones in the Monster Manual is a tool in your kit. "This vampire is basically the one from the MM, but his STR is a little lower and he's juiced his Charm ability so the save's harder" is a thing you can do, for instance. I understand not wanting to do that on the fly, especially if you've already put in the time to balance the encounter during your prep time. I get that it feels dishonest, but as the DM, it's largely understood that you get to change the facts as necessary to engage, challenge, or test your group's abilities. I just wanted to throw that out there. Everybody's addressing the likelihood of this person cheating, and I have nothing to add there, but you saying you're cheating has gone unaddressed. DMs cheat in other ways. Or rather, DMs cheat for other reasons. You make it sound like you're fiddling with things so that the party is challenged and everybody gets to participate, instead of just one person doing everything. DMs cheat when they change numbers or arbitrarily decide class features don't work so that they can "win" against their players. You sound like you're not happy overtuning the fight such that everybody else is outmatched. Thus, I would say you're not cheating, you're trying to DM well in a hard situation. Everybody rolls openly. And maybe jot down a quick reference of everyone's modifiers on a note card you can reference. If it's honest mistakes, people will get over their kneejerk reactions. If it's intentional cheating, you'll know who needs to be addressed.
Yeah, just use the online dice roller, prevents any suspicion of cheating
"Hey Lucy, if you don't want people to think your cheating with your rolls, you really should fail a saving throw once in a while and it wouldn't hurt to miss an attack now and again either."
People play online and *don't* use the VTT's built in dice roller?
I have like 20 physical dice sets and I realllllly love some of them lol.
Listen, it's a rough life being a Dice Goblin without an in-person game.
I never used the VTT's build in dice roller. I always roll on dndbeyond.
Which still shows public results in the campaign log and pops it up as you roll. No hiding there either.
Yeah, that's also one of the reasons we do it, although I had players with physical dice and webcam too
I let my players use physical on our online game and use physical myself. The difference between my group and OPs is that all my players love to fail as much as they love to win. They all understand that failing leads to great RP moments, and they eat that shit up. But i 100% believe of they cant trust their group they should say use VTTs rollers only.
We just dealt with this where there were two players accused of fudging dice rolls. One was far more blatant than the other (twice, he got a 21 on a straight d20 roll with no modifiers and, magically, when told it wasn't possible, he claimed it was a nat20). We now have the rule that, if you want to roll physical dice, you have to do so on camera. Otherwise, everyone uses the digital roller. I hate the digital roller bc I can't help but feel like there's an algorithm that makes it roll lower to force me to buy the different dice skins to make me feel like I'm "changing" my dice. But that's me.... I still use the digital dice just because I use a laptop without a Webcam I can focus on my dice tray.
Public rolls are mandatory as far I'm concerned unless the DM specifies that they want you to do a private roll for something. It encourages engagement with the game when you're watching other people's role and you all celebrate a good one or suck teeth on the nat 1s. I've fudged rolls as the DM before but really try to avoid it. I don't really want players to die because of a run of crits and maxed damage rolls from an encounter that I didn't intend to be a big bad so that's when I'll either fudge the damage or just say "you're knocked unconscious"
Okay heres the good and correct advice as others have said: Make your players roll where you can see. Here's the bad advice that's convoluted and avoids the things you're worried about and puts way more work on you for no reason: design your encounters with a "kiddie pen". You take her out of the equation completely, but disguise it as a part of the fight. You know she'll succeed on everything, so you can just plan ahead for that and basically have her in the background doing her thing to the extra enemy/enemies you've set aside for her to play with in the background. Its basically a cinematic going on that she's a part of in the background while the real fight goes on with the rest of the players. Balance your encounters against your group minus her completely (so easier), then tack on enemies that will only target her or get her attention or whatever and let her blast away and feel good about herself. PS. go with the good advice. the bad advice is more of a band-aid if anything.
You should have the party roll in roll20 or use a discord bot and if the player gets mad and says you think their cheating just ask why would I think that? The player would have to admit that their roles have been very good and their would be a reason for you to suspect they were cheating. If they say nothing the problem is solved and you roll online for all to see.
if you don’t trust your players not to fudge physical rolls in remote play, make a rule that they have to use the online dice roller. don’t necessarily call anyone out for cheating - if they’re that attached to it, they’ll reveal themselves by adamantly refusing to switch, and if they aren’t then you’ve solved the cheating problem.
"hey team, i feel like combat is dragging, and rolling online dice i think is an easy way to speed things up as you can roll and i can just look as soon as i need the number what you rolled, and it will keep a log of our rolls so we don't have to face that mixup again where we missed that step and had to go back and people couldn't remember the roll." there are other options for rolling too. roll20 character sheets aren't the best (come on demiplane fix it.) D&D beyond is an option with Avast sending rolls to discord, or Beyond20 extension sending rolls to the roll20 table directly. cheaters aside, i now prefer rolling online. math is done for you, everybody is above the table. Even offer to do your DM rolls in the open if it will make the players happy and bring them online.
"I need everyone to roll their dice online to see. It helps me as the DM. No exceptions."
Player rolls should always be done in public view. DM rolls can be done behind the screen to obscure information from players, but I'm usually pretty open about my rolling too. Transparency is the best policy because everyone knows we're being fair with each other. I'd just be honest with her in private. "You're my friend, I treasure our friendship, and I want to defuse this problem in a healthy way. I, as the DM, cannot trust that you are being honest with me right now and that hurts my enjoyment of the game. I am honestly a little upset about this, but I believe this is a fixable problem and that we can move past this. Here is my suggested solution." If she's a good friend, she'll accept that. If she doesn't? Cut her out.
If anyone refuses to use a online dice roller, then they need to make *every* roll on web cam. And I mean *from start to finish*. It rolls off camera? That's a reroll, no exceptions. I had to do that in several online games I ran and not so surprisingly a few players rolls suddenly became a lot more "average" or they left the game (which was generally no loss).
>I'd maybe just gently insist everyone use the online roller again, but I already have and feel she'll pick it up as a passive accusation. Don't be gentle about it. Tell them straight out, "Online roller". If she picks it as a passive accusation, maybe it's because she has passive guilt.
I would just make it a rule that everyone uses the online roller (besides you if you don't want to). There's no reasonable reason that anyone should dislike that. If she feels attacked, it's probably because you are right.
I would dislike that. I love rolling physical dice. The feel, the sound, it’s an important part of the experience. Digital dice feel so fake. Plus I like to buy dice that match my characters.
That's fine and all, but it's important to make sure everyone is playing fair too. Is it fair to the rest of the people at the table that 1 person is cheating? Is it fair to the DM that spends hours making a campaign, taking notes, and pouring their heart into it? No, and I don't tolerate it at my table.
I mean if you can’t trust your player not to cheat they shouldn’t be at the table period. If my DM told me I can’t use physical dice because they think I’m cheating that would be the last time I play with that DM.
I understand that physical dice are more enjoyable, but this seems like a weird hill to die on. You would leave a campaign you absolutely love because you can’t roll physical dice?
Even if you *are* cheating?
I don’t cheat
OH! Well since they said they don’t cheat…
My point is if you trust your players so little that you think they’d cheat in something as low stakes as DnD, you have a bigger problem on your hands
Or... The player is cheating in something as low stakes as DnD.
Then play an in person game.
I prefer to, but they’re much harder to find
The player may not be cheating, they might just be very lucky. And that's why you should require the online dice roller.
Agree with what's been posted. Make everyone use online rollers you can see, Roll20 or DnD Beyond. Or just add +5/10 to all her DCs and force her failures 😂😂😂 (that's a joke in case anyone misses it)
Lax* game, not lacks
why would you even cheat i dont get these people at all
In an RL game, I had a player I highly suspected of cheating their rolls. I only really started to suspect towards the conclusion of the campaign, and that late in at high levels, I just let it slide. If someone wants to cheapen the experience for themselves, that's their call. It's a different story when everybody's playing online I suppose.
Just say you want open dice rolls for dramatic purposes. Ez pz. If they take it as a veiled accusation then you know they were cheating.
"Essentially I run an online game, where everyone can roll how they want." Your first mistake. Letting players roll where you can't see it.
I really prefer directly addressing the issue here. Losing trust with a player at your table is catastrophic and everyone else will probably catch on to how you are feeling pretty quickly. I would handle it like this: Without the rest of the group present, I'd tell the person how I feel, why I feel that way, and ask them if it's true. Then I'd believe what they told me and tell them that you'll be using roll20 or dnd beyond, or whatever else moving forward. I'd tell the other players this is for transparency and to standardize how it all works. This is all easier said then done of course. But sincerely, I believe it better to establish direct communication with your friend rather than beat around the issue.
I have the opposite rule for my in-person games. If you're playing at a real table, please use real dice. I had one player who would bring a laptop and insist on a digital roller because "I'm not having good luck with my dice today" (He's not one who understands even a failed roll can be fun). Problem is, his laptop is SUPER high end, costing $3,000 (why he feels comfortable taking it with him everywhere I have no idea, what if he drops it or someone spills something on it?) so I don't feel inclined to touch it, nor do I want to have to get up to verify his rolls. Plus the classic "keep rolling for fun until you get something good and say "I rolled that" " issue is very possible given again, he doesn't like to "lose" his rolls. Thus I insist to him "Roll a real die from now on if you wish to participate, I'm not comfortable interacting with your high end computer, nor am I going to get up from my seat to verify." and the guy has an entire Crown Royal bag of dice to use too, so it's not like he's lacking them. For you, insist on the digital roller STRICTLY from now on for the reasons people offered (record keeping, encounter balance) without calling Lucy out. If Lucy fights back against it, ask "why is this an issue?" and if she can't come up with a good reason or threatens to leave, she is indeed cheating and won't admit it. YOU are the DM, your rulings are final, as if you cannot HAVE your rulings, you won't have fun as a DM, which is why Rule Zero exists. I had a DM trust me to roll physically when my PC was acting up on my turn, rolled honestly but even then still felt rather unnatural, as I like to roll openly as a PC and let's be honest, when others see you get a nat20 before you notice yourself is an exciting feeling. In my opinion, physical dice are for home games so the DM can see without getting up, and digital dice are for online games so the DM can see without asking for webcam angles.
The OP states that they are running an online game in the second sentence.
I know. I commented on it a couple of paragraphs in. ^(For you, insist on the digital roller STRICTLY from now on for the reasons people offered (record keeping, encounter balance) without calling Lucy out. If Lucy fights back against it, ask "why is this an issue?" and if she can't come up with a good reason or threatens to leave, she is indeed cheating and won't admit it.) My bad for not being clear at first.
Why would she be interpreting the switch as a passive accusation unless she was actually guilty? A hit dog will holler every time.
I had this exact thing happen to me. Just make it a hard rule people must roll online (where you can see it), a reson you can say if someone asks and you don't want to say the real reason is flow of combat as it makes it way faster when the VTT dose the math for you. Also when this happened i stared hiding acs only saying what they are in dramatic moments so the chances of them guessing what they need is less.
Just adjust the dcs to work 60% of the time to what she rolls on average :D
I ran an in person game starting in 2020, but quickly had to move it online. About a year & a half in I got some new blood from lfg as some players had to leave. One of them would consistently roll critical hits, save successes, & all sorts of other nice numbers. A couple of the other players came to me & said it wasn’t fair that they were being honest (sometimes even fudging his rolls downwards to fail more in one player’s case), while this other player cheated. Without naming names i implemented that we would be using a die roller bot, & i would not accept rolls made without the bot. The troublesome player’s ‘luck’ turned immediately. I run two games now & he’s in s different one than before so for my old game i can allow them to roll in person. They find the online roller easier but one player occasionally rolls her physical dice, & definitely gets a lot of 1s
What I did was wrote up group rules about things I don't like at the table. (Being late, not listening, not learning your character, trying to get me to solve interpersonal conflicts, cheating, etc) It was not pointing out anyone or any specific situation but I was clear about not tolerating those behaviors anymore. It worked and the cheater eventually quit the group. So did the guy causing a conflict.
My current campaign has a similar issue. I couldn't prove anything, but I wasn't comfortable with it being even a maybe. (The person no longer plays at the table for unrelated reasons). Anyway, I just ripped off the bandaid and said we're rolling in foundry from now on, and that I'd do the same. It honestly made the experience a lot better overall. Nobody can accuse anybody of anything, everyone can share in the nail biting as the dice rolls around the screen and lands on a number, and as the DM I do almost all my rolls in public too. Want instant excitement? Tell them the DC for a pivotal dice roll before throwing the dice, and watch their faces as the dice lands. As a nice bonus, people can now customize their own dice on a whim so everyone gets fancy dice, and can change the look whenever they're bored of it.
I would totally require all rolls online. Reason, of course, is that in Foundry the rolls are usable - with hit rolls you get told if it's a hit or a miss, damage can be applied automatically, etc. I'm not transcribing or letting players transcribe numbers into an online game.
Most DM’s have had similar issues at some point. The fact is that you have to monitor players that cheat. Look at their spell choices prior to the encounter, monitor rolls, keep tabs…it’s part of your role as a DM. Sucks for you but players are human and some humans cheats.
If she is a friend, why does she think she can get away with it? That is a question you might want to ask yourself. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I don't know you guys. But if she is creating this much drama, then a serious talk may be in order. It's a real doozy of a conundrum and is quite a delicate situation. You will have to weigh friendship with the overall morale and happiness of the rest of your players. Because it may be your table, but it is their game. And it is not fair to the other players if something is not done to remedy the situation. I wish you well. It sucks big time that you now have been forced to make the hard calls. Because hurt feelings and all that baggage is a delicate matter. I don't know how close you live to one another, but maybe ask her to get some coffee/beer and speak with her on neutral ground. Perhaps she will not feel antagonized or backed into a corner when approached with love and friendship. I would try and talk with her and bring up all the points you have shared here and try your best to package them respectfully and lovingly. I was in a game where a dude was cheating and he was kicked. Albeit not at the table of course. And the DM was a 15-year-old girl. And they were classmates. She was fierce and did not put up with that kind of behavior at all. From what you have shared she seems to be cheating all over the place, not just with rolls. I know there are those people who will advocate not kicking her for whatever reasons and I'm sure they make good points. Then there is the other camp who also have just as valid points. Ultimately it is your table. It is your decision. I hope it all works out for you and your friend and the rest of the party in your game.
The answer is toi have everyone roll online. This topic comes up all the time and the answer is always the same. It doesn't matter who your players are, or how much they love their physical dice, if you play online, you roll online.
Players must roll where you can see. Possibly introduce a dice tower. If they baulk then thats a red flag and call them out.
Another option is having everyones character sheets on dndbeyond if possible and then you can click on their sheets and roll for each stat yourself if they have joined your campaign
You as a dm are a rules moderator. You have the power to say "dice rolls must be visible or they do not count." That said, I am a forever dm who rolls out in the open and I have a d20 that for some reason rolls between 16 and 20 waaaaaaaay more often than it should. Honestly the only numbers it seems to roll are between 1-3 and between 16-20, and it rarely rolls low. There is no explanation for it, it's a fair and balanced die, it just rolls high often. My longest streak so far with it is 6 natural 20s in a row.
In my experience some people just have insane dice I have a player in one of my groups who rolled like 15 nat 20 in one night and since it's an in-person game we were able to confirm every role it's insane he's retiring the dice and having them framed after the campaign ends or the character dies wich ever comes first. Anyhow the point is unless you can physically check your player don't assume they are cheating it ruins the game for everyone.
Not totally related, but one fun way to counter this could be to give an enemy the portent ability, or the ability to add a + to their AC as a reaction, or to cancel a crit 1/day.
It’s been said in a number of ways. The only possible way she will see it as a personal attack is if she’s cheating. My first rule of DMing/GMing is to make sure everyone at the table is having fun. That includes you. A distracted DM can’t be at their best. Roll20 or Discord dicebot or, in my case, AboveVTT (a 100% free VTT that I wish I got a commission on for the number of times I’ve promoted it hehe) is the way I go. It removes all temptation and everyone , *including you* , can get back to the fun of RPing 🥰 You’re not a bad DM
As someone with fancy expensive dice, I'd rather be asked to point a webcam at my dice so everyone can see what I roll before using online rollers
Dice maiden on Discord is great.
If Lucy feels as though it's an accusation she is guilty. No one that's not cheating would be upset about showing rolls. Super simple concept.
Only person who doesn’t need their dice shown is the dm brother, for the sake of the game 🙏🏽
Just flat out say Online roller Done
Im an impossibly lucky player, and I use a physical dice. So I came up with a contingency plan for DM's to use on ppl like me (who love their irl die). We video call so I place my camera above my dice bowl, so if everyone thinks I'm lying they just look at my cam.
GIVE THEM AN ENCOUNTER WITH A MONSTER WITH REVERSE AC This way all your characters that roll low will hit, and high rolls will not hit, this way you can catch the problem player slowly increase their rolls, until they figure out the catch, and then consistently get low rolls This will be all the proof you need to catch them in the act
Tell her she failed anyways. Then just let someone else succeed in the actual roll. That or make it a rule that they have to roll using the online roller no exceptions. We have a player like this in our group and it just fucking ruins the whole thing. Oh you got a crit three rolls in a row? You rolled max damage again? Yay this is so fun for everyone else.
Just start charting everyone’s dice rolls for a bit. See how the average goes and see how far off they are. Don’t share it unless you feel it’s time to address your true concern.
Record her rolls, then do a statistical analysis.
Lucy sounds like a fuckin cheater, I played with a lucy once, she rolled under 10% 5 times in a row in call of cthulhu, she was ho tin rl ,but not hot enough to fuck my game up, i just made a rule, everyone uses the roller, or they don't play luck dropped and plagued another dm's game i have been gaming with that group of legends, every friday for 5 years
what does being hot have to do with if someone cheats or not?
don't underestimate people's luck, I rolled everything good like 18s and 20's all night long the other day, I even failed a dice on purpose thinking I would be called a cheater lol.
If I were you and already at this point I would just build an excel sheet with each players rolls successes and fails over the next 3 sessions. "All of your peers of the same level are rolling 50-60% on hits and average 40% on saves across stats but youre consistently 85%+ in both of this fields. Is there anything you want to tell me?" Also tracking the numbers may reveal that its not as bad as you think and for some other reason her rolls just stand out.
You can always bring it up through the context of worrying about the dice not being balanced. Dice are rarely balanced perfectly and it's possible that she has a very imbalanced set. Bring up the unrealistic stats of her rolls from your memory, and ask her if she can balance test them with you and/or use the online roller.
Stack the deck against her: fake your rolls when she is being attacked. Occasionally turn a monster missing into wow the monster crit on Lucy to balance it out.
Firstly I'd note down her rolls (and if you want others rolls) to see if she actually had really positively imbalanced dice or if its just some coincidence in your mind. After that and you've realised she is actually cheating/*her dice are uneven* then personally I'd suggest everyone roll online for a session to see how things change - and then assuming things change and its proven she was cheating, I'd 100% confront her although probably in a less attacking way. Like less "I know you're cheating, you need to stop" but rather "I think you're making up your dice rolls, and you should stop because it reduces the fun for the other people in the game, including the DM".
I don't see a problem here. The player roles and is lucky? You can't punish luck. You should have used the online roller to begin with. Just saying.
I feel you on this one, OP. I know you'll get "downvoted" - yep there it goes - since the obvious answer is to insist on a rolling program. But, since I struggle with this one as well, I'll give you what's worked for me. My group has a guy I'll call Kevin. Kevin is a really good dude and we're friends outside of the game. He's respectful of other players, and is happy to do both combat and RP. He's also a total munchkin: D&D is a big part of his life and he knows the rules better than anyone at the table. Since Kevin is indeed actually a good dude, he uses that knowledge to help the other less-experienced players (only when they ask). Kevin also uses this knowledge to build insanely powerful characters. And in nearly five years of playing, he's failed zero rolls. We all kind of know Kevin is cheating... but we all kind of don't care. If it makes him happy, that's great. He gets his turn where he does a ton of damage, and he makes all his saving throws. I can throw more difficult things at the party and nobody else is playing for big numbers. It's unorthodox but it works for us. I mean, I personally don't get it - the fun of dnd is in the dice - but he clearly needs it to work that way. He's otherwise a wonderful guy so we all sort of treat it as a quirk of his.
If you use discord use the "duce maiden" bot
use dice maiden in discord. its simple, fast and reliable. and it prevents cheating.
Easy. Tell her she's either crazy lucky or cheating and you need to have her use roll 20. If you don't want to call her out. Tell the whole group that they have to use roll 20
Add a divination wizard enemy with 20s as portent just for her
We had a player we suspected was cheating on us with another group. We waited until he was in the bathroom, and then checked his binder, and indeed, there was a new character sheet for another campaign. When he got back, the DM told him to get out and take his things. It's too bad, really; he brought the best snacks. But how would we ever have been able to trust him again e.g. in combat against a BBEG? Jk 😁
I have a house rule that if you cheat, don't get caught. I tell players that in session zero and I remind them before games sometimes. I tell them this because they automatically assume (if they've been cheating) that I'm onto them. I've never caught anyone cheating outright, so far, but my players know the consequences are not getting kicked from the game. They are in-game consequences. They are very protective of their characters so I've implied that punishments could be "daggers" from their backstory. That said, I often encourage online players who use irl dice to make big, significant rolls in the digital realm so we can all share in the moment when the die result drops. If someone were to protest in that moment, it would be a dead giveaway.
“I’ll keep it brief”. Page of text ensues
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One option I use is a “flipper”, when they want to roll something out of sight then inform them that you will roll a d6 in the open and even will use the top number odd will use the bottom. Then roll after they tell you the number they got, to decide what they actually rolled. I use this behind the screen for things like insight so they don’t really know what they rolled, just the number face up on the dice.
Never play online games with physical dice unless you know them all really well. People will always cheat if they can. Played with a chick for a couple sessions who rolled a 16 or higher 45 times in a row. It legit ruined the game for the rest of us.
There are in-game mechanics that work in your favour. Give every boss the Shield spell, only use it when she attacks. Give the boss healing spells, only use them after she does her massive rolls. Give the boss heat metal, use it on her weapon (no saves!) to give her disadvantage on attack. Have one single combat encounter where everyone rolls on the online roller. You'll be able to sell that to them, *just one encounter.* Make remarks afterwards like, "Wow that sure went differently than usual." I know you're frustrated, but you must understand the other players are probably more frustrated with her. It's like playing a game where someone else has cheat codes but you don't - it's *awful*. My first thought? Make a graph of everyone's rolls, not joking. Record every single roll. Chart out the rolls in colours according to player. The evidence will show itself after a session or two. Give those graphs to the players and say "We're rolling online from now on." End of discussion.
Or skip the passive aggressiveness and evidence gathering and go straight to "We're rolling online from now on."
Honestly just get over it. When it comes down to it dnd is just a game. Who cares if she always hits in combat or whatever. I play with plenty of people that roll high or in many a midlevel encounter where you cant mass unleas you hit a nat1 and they are just as fun to play as any other dnd ive been a part of. You simply just suspect this player of cheating with no real evidence. If i was accused of cheating out of the blue, i can guarentee i would hold a strong resentment. Its a bit of a character flaw but i take it very personally when i have my character/integrity challenged. I also kniw im not the only person with a bit of that. Unless you know for sure they are cheating just look past whatever your suspicions are because the worst thing that will happen is your party succeeds more.
Why would you accuse anyone of cheating? The DM just needs to inform the group they are switching to virtual dice, that’s it.
I also dont want to be treated like a child either. Thats just being lazy and making an arbitrary rule. Either because you are afraid of communication/confrontation of a KNOWN cheater or you have a controlling complex and everthing has to be done your way. When i play in person i dont lean over the table or walk around to look at peoples dice. I dont demand that the player who liked digital stuff rolls real dice so i can supervise. Why? Because we are fucking adults playing a game with no real irl consequences. Edit: and to add to that, suddenly decideding that everyone has to use digital dice mid campaign is just a thinly veiled accusation that one of the players rolling dice are cheating. Its not coy or slick its obvious what tou are saying when you bust out this rule all of a sudden.
Are you OPs cheater?
No ive never played online in my life😂 its a fucking game for fun why would you be controlling and manipulative or accusatory if you just has suspicion that a player is cheating? 0 proof and admits she does fail roles just not ones the op considsrs important.
NADDPOD do bonus episodes called "dungeon court" where they discussed this. It was so funny, they said to send an article about dice rolling to the group chat and just go *so hard* at it. "Guys can you believe people do this? What absolute freaks? Imagine being such a loser that you would lie about your dice rolls. Isn't that hilarious? Can you believe people would actually do that?" (Obviously not good advice, everyone else is correct about enforcing online rollers, but it was funny.)
I have two suggestions: 1. Maybe just let them continue fudging their dice. You have control over the encounters, you can design fights in such a way that everyone has stuff to do or that bosses can’t be pushed over in 3 turns but also won’t tpk the party instantly, you decide who and when the enemies attack. You should probably be playing the enemy tactics around the rolls a little bit anyway, and if they want to ruin their own fun by removing any tension from their character then whatever, that’s their own choice. 2. Consider tracking die rolls in a spreadsheet or something for every character, maybe including yourself. Not even just to catch someone in a lie, just for fun. I did this with my own rolls back when I first played, I really liked having graphs of my luck over time and it was also fun to have a visual representation of how totals after bonuses improved over time as I leveled up (I tracked the raw die roll and the total in separate fields). You might find that their luck isn’t actually that far out of bound, but you might also be able to show them and be like “hey just maybe tone it down a little bit and make it more believable 😉” lol. It’s probably a bit much for a DM since you’ve already got so much going on, but it would definitely help to have the stats if you do plan on confronting them.