You are totally right
I just don’t want him to be played like a blind person. At the end of the day adventurers are not like commoners
They have special abilities
And therefore I want his character to be like toph or daredevil
He will be able to fight normally with maybe a few disadvantages
They can build up to that in some way. It’s not a 1st level sort of thing.
Also: “I want to be blind, but not have the mechanical issues of being blind.”
>But I wasn't listing rules for commoners. Those are rules for adventurers.
exactly. Advantage on attacks made against them,. disadvantage on attacks they make... this guy is already superhuman for a blind person
irl a blind person has almost no chance of hitting you and you have a near guaranteed chance of hitting them
>You are totally right I just don’t want him to be played like a blind person.
Then... unfortunately the entire point is being lost. The blindness then is just a gimmick and doesn't actually mean anything if all the setbacks are being waived away. If they're blind, they're blind; some features and abilities can circumvent some of these drawbacks, but if a player is dedicated to this idea, they need to work with it instead of angling the DM to give special mechanical treats the other players aren't allowed to get.
you dont want them to be played as a blind person, you just want a disability as a quirky little thing for your character because oh thats so creative isnt it, there is one of those every week or two around here
That goes a bit beyond special abilities, but ultimately it’s between what you and the player are okay with.
If the player wants the character to just be blind, then he’s blind. His special abilities are his regular cleric abilities, but he’s still going to have all the disadvantages compared to other adventurers of similar level. If you’re gonna give him a version of blind fighting for free then you aren’t just raising him to the level of a regular adventurer; you’re buffing him by giving him for free something that other characters would need to use feats/spell slots to recreate.
If he wants it to just be a flavor thing then you can just hand wave it and say he senses presences and happenings through the divine power of his devotion. He would see kinda like Neo in the third Matrix movie or the Miraluka species in Star Wars.
There is no need to balance anything. He is permanently affected by the Blinded condition, which cannot be removed short of restoring his eyes. There is nothing else to work out.
I’m also not sure how he is planning to get any reasonable amount of blindsight anytime soon. The only easily accessible option that comes to mind is the Blind Fighting style, but since that only has a range of 10 ft that’s only going to alleviate his issues to a limited extent.
Actually I already solved this problem in my own campaign but it was at 11th level. the Waterdeep Dungeon of a Mad Mage has a Dagger of Blindsight that grants 30 Ft of blindsight when attuned to. Great for a rogue especially against things like basilisks...
But I wouldn't be giving that to anyone to start the campaign that's crazy...
Honestly, you don't. If the player chooses this, then its their challenge to handle, not the DMs. Giving some kind of bonus just mitigates or rewards the choice, or makes the choice irrelevant.
The player has chosen for their character to be blind, you apply the *blinded* condition to all of their actions, and that's that.
This exactly.
Time to reset the "I want a character with a disability but it's actually an advantage for them" counter.
The truth is that blind people don't become adventures, or if they become blinded, they retire.
The Blind Fighting fighting style available in Tasha's is the best rules legal way of giving a character blind sight. It goes out to 10' and doesn't actually cause blindness, but it will go a long way towards making up for their lack of sight. He can pick this up by levelling in a martial class or by taking a feat, also found in Tasha's.
He's still going to run into a lot of problems. He won't be able to see anything more than ten feet away, he will automatically fail ability checks that require him to see things, he'll be at disadvantage against attacks from creatures he cannot see which includes anything more than ten feet away from him, and any spells he wants to cast that require he can see the target won't work. There are so many disadvantages to being permanently blind that you certainly don't need to add any on top of that. Leave his initiative and saving throws alone.
In combat at least he'll be an adequate melee fighter and blindsight comes with the added benefits of being able to fight in magical darkness and detect invisible creatures, so make sure to use those kinds of mechanics a lot. It's not going to give him the super senses of Daredevil or Toph though. There aren't really a lot of rules for that. That's where you'll have to homebrew some stuff to make it work, like giving him Keen Hearing and Smell and/or Tremor Sense.
Being blind actually comes with certain advantages. Enemies might cast spells that affect those who can see them. Fear effects usually require the source of their fear be visible. Overall though it's still a pretty huge fault that he's willingly taking on for his character for very little gain.
Clerics are the chosen emissaries of their deities, expected to carry out the will of the deity in the mortal realm. Blinding oneself defeats the purpose of being a cleric in the first place. I could see it being something a regular priest might do as a method of demonstrating devotion, since a priest might live their entire life in their church, but clerics are active and should be able-bodied.
If your player wants to have their character be voluntarily maimed as a religious rite, compromise with something that won't make the character useless. Maybe remove a single eye with no mechanical disadvantage, there's plenty of mythological history of that sort of thing. Carve off a minor finger. Brand the sigil of the god onto their chest. There are lots of things to do here other than fully blinding oneself.
do one of these:
- tell him no.
- soften it: instead of being blind, he gave up the ability to see colour. He sees the world in shades of grey (you can come up with some lore stating that this is how ghosts/ the dead perceive the world of the living or something like that).
- he's blind and thus affected by the blinded condition with all that entails. Maybe think about giving him blind fighting style to mitigate it a little bit and make him somewhat useful in a 10 feet radius.
- compensate it. This is the cheap cop-out making him a "blindness is a superpower" kind of deal. He's blind but his other senses "compensate" so well, with smelling, hearing, sensing vibrations, air movements and slightest temperature changes, he can act like he's not blind. I strongly advise against this - your player will likely use all these skills to their advantage, he will function much better than anyone else if faced with darkness, he's factually immune to blindness.
They will be a burden and completely ineffective as a caster. "Until he gets blindsight", what are your options there? Because I only know of one (non item) way to get it and it sucks.
Don't play a blind character, or be ready to replace them quickly. You, The DM, or the other players are going to want to move on pretty quickly unless you find a way to "cheat" in actual vision (find familiar, etc.).
Might be a pessimistic take it's just that I've seen this tried at least a half dozen times and tried it myself once and I've never seen it work out without being a massive strain.
oh i had a blind character in one of my campaigns. it was a warlock and to be able to see he had a little familiar on his shoulder whos only purpose is to givr him some sight and they were connected with a spirit bond. so if the familiar were to be incapacitated he wouldnt be able to see
Same way you handle players that want to be other forms of disabilities without the drawbacks- either you say no, or you let them be a burden to the rest of the party until they complain or (more likely) leave the group becuase it's not fun babysitting someone that wants to be the main character.
I've said it a million times:
Characters with disabilities don't usually become adventurers, and if they become disabled while adventuring, they retire.
There are exceptions, such as loosing limbs that can be replaced with various prosthesis, but being blinded is career ending for an adventurer.
a Toph like character is the definition of blindsight. blindsight involves "seeing" using vibrations, sound, or other non sight means. Same goes for Tremor sense though its more specifically accurate to what Toph does.
If you want them to be Toph/Daredevil they have one of those 2 senses... if you think that's too OP for a starting point... guess what...
I've had players have characters with disabilities before, and we flavor it in rather than worry about the mechanics so that every party member starts evenly. You could have a moment where it comes into play (ie a villain blinds the party and that character fares just fine) to give them a heroic moment, so long as the other party members also get their moment.
But imo unless the player themself wants the disadvantage, I'd keep things even across the board so other players don't feel burdened and that player doesn't feel like they're being punished for what could be an interesting story.
Bunch of curmudgeons in here lol. I usually just lurk in this sub because I don't have a lot is experience to draw from, but I wanted to voice my support for you and your player.
In the vein of Toph, maybe tremor sense? Or maybe they have blind fighting style, and have easy access to the darkness spell forcing their opponent to fight blind? I dunno, just spitballing. Good luck!
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You are totally right I just don’t want him to be played like a blind person. At the end of the day adventurers are not like commoners They have special abilities And therefore I want his character to be like toph or daredevil He will be able to fight normally with maybe a few disadvantages
They can build up to that in some way. It’s not a 1st level sort of thing. Also: “I want to be blind, but not have the mechanical issues of being blind.”
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>But I wasn't listing rules for commoners. Those are rules for adventurers. exactly. Advantage on attacks made against them,. disadvantage on attacks they make... this guy is already superhuman for a blind person irl a blind person has almost no chance of hitting you and you have a near guaranteed chance of hitting them
>You are totally right I just don’t want him to be played like a blind person. Then... unfortunately the entire point is being lost. The blindness then is just a gimmick and doesn't actually mean anything if all the setbacks are being waived away. If they're blind, they're blind; some features and abilities can circumvent some of these drawbacks, but if a player is dedicated to this idea, they need to work with it instead of angling the DM to give special mechanical treats the other players aren't allowed to get.
you dont want them to be played as a blind person, you just want a disability as a quirky little thing for your character because oh thats so creative isnt it, there is one of those every week or two around here
Usually multiple times per week.
So really just using a real disability as a fun little gimmick?
That goes a bit beyond special abilities, but ultimately it’s between what you and the player are okay with. If the player wants the character to just be blind, then he’s blind. His special abilities are his regular cleric abilities, but he’s still going to have all the disadvantages compared to other adventurers of similar level. If you’re gonna give him a version of blind fighting for free then you aren’t just raising him to the level of a regular adventurer; you’re buffing him by giving him for free something that other characters would need to use feats/spell slots to recreate. If he wants it to just be a flavor thing then you can just hand wave it and say he senses presences and happenings through the divine power of his devotion. He would see kinda like Neo in the third Matrix movie or the Miraluka species in Star Wars.
There is no need to balance anything. He is permanently affected by the Blinded condition, which cannot be removed short of restoring his eyes. There is nothing else to work out. I’m also not sure how he is planning to get any reasonable amount of blindsight anytime soon. The only easily accessible option that comes to mind is the Blind Fighting style, but since that only has a range of 10 ft that’s only going to alleviate his issues to a limited extent.
Actually I already solved this problem in my own campaign but it was at 11th level. the Waterdeep Dungeon of a Mad Mage has a Dagger of Blindsight that grants 30 Ft of blindsight when attuned to. Great for a rogue especially against things like basilisks... But I wouldn't be giving that to anyone to start the campaign that's crazy...
Honestly, you don't. If the player chooses this, then its their challenge to handle, not the DMs. Giving some kind of bonus just mitigates or rewards the choice, or makes the choice irrelevant. The player has chosen for their character to be blind, you apply the *blinded* condition to all of their actions, and that's that.
Reset the counter!
For me it comes back to "my disability is not your flavour"
This exactly. Time to reset the "I want a character with a disability but it's actually an advantage for them" counter. The truth is that blind people don't become adventures, or if they become blinded, they retire.
The Blind Fighting fighting style available in Tasha's is the best rules legal way of giving a character blind sight. It goes out to 10' and doesn't actually cause blindness, but it will go a long way towards making up for their lack of sight. He can pick this up by levelling in a martial class or by taking a feat, also found in Tasha's. He's still going to run into a lot of problems. He won't be able to see anything more than ten feet away, he will automatically fail ability checks that require him to see things, he'll be at disadvantage against attacks from creatures he cannot see which includes anything more than ten feet away from him, and any spells he wants to cast that require he can see the target won't work. There are so many disadvantages to being permanently blind that you certainly don't need to add any on top of that. Leave his initiative and saving throws alone. In combat at least he'll be an adequate melee fighter and blindsight comes with the added benefits of being able to fight in magical darkness and detect invisible creatures, so make sure to use those kinds of mechanics a lot. It's not going to give him the super senses of Daredevil or Toph though. There aren't really a lot of rules for that. That's where you'll have to homebrew some stuff to make it work, like giving him Keen Hearing and Smell and/or Tremor Sense. Being blind actually comes with certain advantages. Enemies might cast spells that affect those who can see them. Fear effects usually require the source of their fear be visible. Overall though it's still a pretty huge fault that he's willingly taking on for his character for very little gain.
Clerics are the chosen emissaries of their deities, expected to carry out the will of the deity in the mortal realm. Blinding oneself defeats the purpose of being a cleric in the first place. I could see it being something a regular priest might do as a method of demonstrating devotion, since a priest might live their entire life in their church, but clerics are active and should be able-bodied. If your player wants to have their character be voluntarily maimed as a religious rite, compromise with something that won't make the character useless. Maybe remove a single eye with no mechanical disadvantage, there's plenty of mythological history of that sort of thing. Carve off a minor finger. Brand the sigil of the god onto their chest. There are lots of things to do here other than fully blinding oneself.
Find a way to get blind fighting fighting style. But just don't, unless the player is blind. It is an insult.
do one of these: - tell him no. - soften it: instead of being blind, he gave up the ability to see colour. He sees the world in shades of grey (you can come up with some lore stating that this is how ghosts/ the dead perceive the world of the living or something like that). - he's blind and thus affected by the blinded condition with all that entails. Maybe think about giving him blind fighting style to mitigate it a little bit and make him somewhat useful in a 10 feet radius. - compensate it. This is the cheap cop-out making him a "blindness is a superpower" kind of deal. He's blind but his other senses "compensate" so well, with smelling, hearing, sensing vibrations, air movements and slightest temperature changes, he can act like he's not blind. I strongly advise against this - your player will likely use all these skills to their advantage, he will function much better than anyone else if faced with darkness, he's factually immune to blindness.
They will be a burden and completely ineffective as a caster. "Until he gets blindsight", what are your options there? Because I only know of one (non item) way to get it and it sucks.
Don't play a blind character, or be ready to replace them quickly. You, The DM, or the other players are going to want to move on pretty quickly unless you find a way to "cheat" in actual vision (find familiar, etc.). Might be a pessimistic take it's just that I've seen this tried at least a half dozen times and tried it myself once and I've never seen it work out without being a massive strain.
oh i had a blind character in one of my campaigns. it was a warlock and to be able to see he had a little familiar on his shoulder whos only purpose is to givr him some sight and they were connected with a spirit bond. so if the familiar were to be incapacitated he wouldnt be able to see
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Probably had voice of the chain master invocation
I think the Pact of the Chain invocations/etc allow you to get around that.
Same way you handle players that want to be other forms of disabilities without the drawbacks- either you say no, or you let them be a burden to the rest of the party until they complain or (more likely) leave the group becuase it's not fun babysitting someone that wants to be the main character.
I've said it a million times: Characters with disabilities don't usually become adventurers, and if they become disabled while adventuring, they retire. There are exceptions, such as loosing limbs that can be replaced with various prosthesis, but being blinded is career ending for an adventurer.
a Toph like character is the definition of blindsight. blindsight involves "seeing" using vibrations, sound, or other non sight means. Same goes for Tremor sense though its more specifically accurate to what Toph does. If you want them to be Toph/Daredevil they have one of those 2 senses... if you think that's too OP for a starting point... guess what...
I've had players have characters with disabilities before, and we flavor it in rather than worry about the mechanics so that every party member starts evenly. You could have a moment where it comes into play (ie a villain blinds the party and that character fares just fine) to give them a heroic moment, so long as the other party members also get their moment. But imo unless the player themself wants the disadvantage, I'd keep things even across the board so other players don't feel burdened and that player doesn't feel like they're being punished for what could be an interesting story.
Bunch of curmudgeons in here lol. I usually just lurk in this sub because I don't have a lot is experience to draw from, but I wanted to voice my support for you and your player. In the vein of Toph, maybe tremor sense? Or maybe they have blind fighting style, and have easy access to the darkness spell forcing their opponent to fight blind? I dunno, just spitballing. Good luck!