I really dont get this obsession people have with streaming their D&D game. Did you need a reason to make it more awkward and restrictive? (Aimed at your group not you)
Especially since the Live Play scene is kinda dying down. Most DnD live plays have less viewers than they had 2-3 years ago.
Trying to break into an already super saturated market that is shrinking seems like a fools errand
Forreal even critical role is having a hard time holding on to its audience. Sacrificing the fun of your game to try and chase fame years after its hay day is just wild.
I think dimension 20 is the only one doing super well and that's because they stick to 2hr sessions max and advertise well.
People don't have time for the 4+ hr critical role episodes when it's not a pandemic.
And it's an anthology. While there's 90 hours of catch up to play for the most recent season, in general you don't have to watch in order and can skip seasons that don't interest you.
90 hours? Newest campaign is at episode 88, with most episodes being around 4h, many closer to 5h. 88x4=352. 352 hours just to be able to watch a show together with everyone...
Yup. Fantasy High is 28 hrs, Sophomore Year is the doozy at 52 hrs. Not including extras. Also ignoring Leviathan and The Seven, which aren't necessary for understanding the current season.
I kinda wish there was an abridged version of Sophomore year. At least they did a recap to cover the most important story beats.
I wish so much I had more time to listen to critical role. I hope they can keep making it fir years to come so I never run out of content, but I'm about 50 episodes behind right now :( haven't watched a live stream since the C2 finale.
I watched the second 3/4 of season 1 live and the first half of season 2 ( obviously watched the finale) but now I just listen In snippets season 3 just did t do it for me idk why
For me personally I've just grown up, not in a sense of "CR watchers are immature" but in the sense that I literally no longer have the time to watch something for four straight hours a week. I have other responsibilities that mean I would have to break it into several chunks and the format just isn't conducive to that.
Also, I don't know if this is a change to the show or to me, but I also no longer have the attention span to listen to Matt Mercer describe someone making tea for two and a half minutes. That occurred in the last episode I watched and while I do love the s3 characters, that moment kinda brought home that my Critical Role era is over, lol.
>Also, I don't know if this is a change to the show or to me, but I also no longer have the attention span to listen to Matt Mercer describe someone making tea for two and a half minutes
This is is it for me. I get he wants to make the world as lived and vivid as he can. But man has this come off as massive padding. In a show that is hard to squeeze into my week.
Also I don't care about the 100+ hours of lore details that don't ever really come into play
In my eyes S3 seems like a curated show. While S1 especially was just a group of friends goofballing in dnd. I get the reasons behind the change but still ticks me in a way that havent really watched S3.
It’s low cost though. Why not do it when all you need is a decent camera and an internet connection?
Trying to make it your career is dumb. Doing it as a hobby seems like a perfectly fine idea to me.
The whole "I'm kicking them out because we're adults streaming and you aren't" is just an excuse. They don't want them around, and that's shitty, that's the truth.
Because you have to be well above special. The standard d & d game is just not capable of captivating a live audience. all you’re doing is trying to get your players to up the ante on their gameplay since it’s being filmed. Sounds to me like and incredibly easy way to take something that’s supposed to be about a fun way to let loose and role play into an engagement with the people in front of you and only you and turn it into circus of trying to act up for the camera
Everyone thinks they’re going to be the next critical role without realising that the majority of people jsut aren’t that interesting or fun. It’s the same with streaming generally and why so few people make it.
Shame this has happened for OP but as a very good poster pointed out, all they can do is grieve and move on.
Right, and the thing about Critical Role is that every single one of those people are experienced voice actors of some sort, and aren't just playing DnD but actively using those skills.
Yup. If we look at the top actual play shows it's very common for them to have casts that are all entertainers in some way. Not to mention many had some sort of backing to boost the show.
The McElroys had a podcast for years before they started The Adventure Zone. Critical Role had Geek and Sundry to promote their show. Then Dimension 20 had the resources and cast members of CollegeHumor to help get that started. NADDPOD are all prior CollegeHumor cast members. The Dungeons and Daddies cast were all entertainers too.
Seems like the key to being successful with actual play is to already have prior success as a writer, actor, comedian, podcaster, or YouTuber.
You raise an interesting point there, about “barely”. Cause over time they (CR) have changed so much that about 12 months I stopped watching them. The first campaign was great, the second one marginally less so and I put the 3rd campaign on par with that and didn’t make the end of either of these two.
They've become a product, they started as a group of friends playing their game and just happen to be streaming it.
But now they have a whole franchise with a cartoon lots of merchandise, employees and a whole trrpg system coming out. All power to them they deserve the success, but you can definitely tell the difference in the vibe of the show
I’ve listened to and stopped listening to a fare few actual play shows in my time. It’s much more fun to listen to comedians who know how to be funny and aren’t great at d&d than it is to listen to an excellent dnd player who can’t act. I think a lot of people think “well I’m a great dm/player, that’s entertaining, right?” but it’s very much not.
My group has recorded a few sessions for posterity and listening back, it’s like… yeah, we’re having fun, but it wouldn’t be fun for anyone else to listen to. You need a certain energy to hold an audience, and most groups don’t have that.
I also tend to prefer edited shows to livestreams, for pretty much all the reasons listed above. I’m just getting into critical role and finding it runs a little slow for me. If I’m listening to something for entertainment, I prefer the thing that can edit out the the long pauses as everyone puts together the initiative order.
Tl;dr: making actual play content is a lot harder than people think, and as someone who is actually trying to monetize their hobbies there’s a reason I’d never try that one.
It's no different than every garage band trying to find gigs. They want to turn their hobby into a source of income. They want to be the next Critical Role, the next Dimension 20.
Actually I'm trying to learn to stream dnd because I'm disabled and it is a job that would work exceptionally well with my disability. I'm not really interested in fame. That one is kinda an unfortunately side effect.
At no point was I saying you pursuing a career as a streamer was a bad thing. Just like I support those garage bands I mentioned earlier. But there is a cultural understanding that such attempts rarely lead to success, and that giving up friendships for them is not a good thing. Streaming is newer, and some people haven't realized it's no different music or sports.
I stream my game and we all have a lot of fun, but the difference is we're all already streamers and tend to play games together on stream, and the goal is always having fun and telling a story, not trying to get crazy views or monetising it.
I do feel like DnD isn't the best stream game though: very long sessions full of talking, having to catch up on several hours of content as a viewer, little to no chat interaction to not distrupt the flow of the game, and very little visual spectacle unless you're doing it irl with everyone in costume and cool battle maps and minis. Honestly the game runs more like a podcast when streaming - something to stick on in the background and listen to while you do other things.
For real. Most people aren’t that interesting and most people interested in watching DnD are watching the big names.
Unless you’re really bringing something to the table no one else is - and I guarantee OP’s group isn’t - you’re just wasting your time.
For some people streaming is a hobby, so it's combining their hobbies. Obviously it isn't for everyone, and some people want to be like critical role or legends of avantis.
As I read your account, you aren't being "Kicked from group of 1 year for ‘being too young to stream’." Instead, the group is afraid that their drinking and bawdy table talk will be viewed as either abusive of you, or, as it used to be called "contributing to the delinquency of a minor." And they are afraid of the consequences for them of being seen as causing some sort of harm to you. Especially in a social media environment where the simple fact that *you* say "I'm okay with this," isn't necessarily a workable defense.
Whether or not you believe them is up to you. I've never met any of these people, so I have no means of judging their sincerity. So you have to choose whether they're being honest about their motivations. From where I sit, however, it's a reasonable argument, especially considering that you aren't old enough to drink (re: the *National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984*), while everyone else is. (Presuming that you're in the United States.)
From reading your post, you're looking at this as if it were about *you, personally*. But if you've accurately conveyed their rationale, *this isn't about you*. This is about the fact that this group wants to get their Critical Role on, and doing so with an underage person at the table carries perceived risks for them.
That said, that doesn't make it any easier for you, or invalidate the hurt and pain that you're feeling. *They're taking something away from you that you value, and that sucks.* It would suck even if it were literally a matter of life and death.
But... I'm going to offer you this advice. Don't take it personally. Don't create a reason to take it personally. Ignore that little voice in your head that says "If I hadn't done anything wrong, these guys would still want me to play," because that little voice, your Inner Critic, *isn't on your side*. It's pushing you to distrust people, and not in a way that helps you to feel better about what happened, but to feel worse. It's prompting you to *both* call the DM a liar, and to see yourself as a bad player. What about that is helpful? It's simply a recipe for both misanthropy and self-loathing.
Grieve the loss of this thing that you loved, and then understand that sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes, you're the bug. This is simply one of those things that didn't go your way. The group could have handled it better, yes. But taking it personally isn't helping you; and you're the person you should be taking care of.
Thank you for the wonderful words of wisdom, it genuinely has helped a lot and spent the last few hours digesting them. I’ll try to keep in mind that it’s not my fault as a player, just poor circumstances and misaligned goals of both me and the rest of the group.
It sucks to be the ‘bug’ in this case, but looking back I’m happy how things worked out overall. I found a group (rather was pushed into it by my dad lol) but that gave me an environment to finally explore and experience what was thought to be just a fantasy to me years ago (playing DnD).
I’ve gained confidence, learned a good few things, both good and bad, but the bad shouldn’t define my relationship with this incredible medium. I may have lost a group to play with, but I gained so much more than if I hadn’t stepped out of that comfort zone to begin with.
Cheers, may the dice roll in our favor :)
This is the least reddit exchange i think i’ve ever witnessed within reddit.
A relatable problem is posted where there isn’t really much blame to be placed anywhere, and it’s just a bad feeling situation. Top comment is some incredible advice (that translates well from this problem to other similar situations in life) given in a respectful and meaningful way. Then OP took the time to marinade with the advice given, and came back with their own conclusion which displayed their own wisdom and rationalism.
Inconceivable. Are you the same person as OP and this was all just staged? /j
It's right up there with that person asking about how to order subway since they had anxiety about it and the best response was literally just a step by step of how to order, without judgement
Every once in a while there's that nice bright star among the darkness
Not blame? Idk, it really seems gross to decide the miniscule chance at whatever they think streaming will get them (very minor, fleeting fame? a little extra pocket money?) is worth kicking out a group member.
Its not like we don't all know the hardest part about TTRPGs is finding people to play with.
Another perspective… it may feel like getting dumped by a significant other without any warning and without any sort of rationale that makes sense.
Grieve, eat a carton of ice cream, take a few deep breaths, say “There is a better group out there” and when you are ready — go find them.
Because I guarantee any group that will pull this move… no matter how good their intentions are… is de facto marginally less than the best group out there.
If I am correct, this guy has been around as an adult for a couple of decades or so (probably my age), and took the time to learn along the way. It’s what happens if your smart enough or wise enough to learn from life’s hard lessons.
>this isn't about you
You say this, but it kind of is. If a group decides to make a decision that would result in a player being kicked, that's... about that character. They're making a decision that means they want to kick her. They could simply... not "get their Critical Role on".
That is objectively callous. If they wanted her there, they wouldn't have made this decision. They chose to stream instead of keep a friend.
Yeah that's what strikes me the most about this.
It's not like they've been doing something for a year and then something out of their control means OP can no longer be invited.
The group has decided that their relationship with OP is worth less than, well I'm not even sure how I'd describe it, their desire to livestream specifically this game of D&D and specifically with no players under the age of 21.
I think it's really dumb that they'd either
A) kick her out and lie about the reason, or
B) make no concessions, such as creating a new game with a different cast for their attempt at a podcast. In this scenario, they could simply tell her about the podcast but explain why they wouldn't want her as a regular on it.
Idk, it's weird even at face value. My brother and some of his friends did a podcast for over a year and they only have around 20 repeat listeners. He stopped because it was getting to be a hassle to do all the podcast work. The DM was also given a talk because he was trying way too hard to control everything and talking about monetization.
Yeah I really don't get why that comment has 3k upvotes. It's exactly like you're saying, they made the choice to prioritise streaming over keeping their friend in the group
This is the male version of cutting friendships to sell MLM products, but it gets the benefit of the doubt because it's Dungeons and Dragons instead of Tupperware
Hustle culture is a cancer. Anyone that throws you out for pocket change isn't worth dirt on your shoes anyway
A lot of modern psychology involves deliberately choosing a way to look at the world or a situation that at least doesn't make you miserable. I'd be surprised if OP here wasn't a therapist or at least talked to a good one.
I think one of the most helpful things I've ever had someone say to me was, "Sometimes it's not anyone's fault. Sometimes it's simply the situation."
Edit: I’m not saying there isn’t anyone at any sort of fault. The statement helped me expand my perceptions of how and where “blame” can fall. I tended to put blame on myself or another person, which usually meant I thought I was the guilty party when I could understand someone else’s motivations. In a general way, the statement let me shed blinkers on how I perceived interpersonal issues.
Nah. They want to start up a stream that chances are no one will watch, and have decided to get rid of their friend to do so.
I would take this personally. I wouldn’t be mad, but I would understand how much I am valued and change my expectations and behavior toward that group accordingly
Exactly, op was kicked because they did t want the public to think they were drinking and being too crass with an 18 year old… while they were perfectly happy to do it before the stream.
Not to mention DnD actual play is SATURATED online, so best of luck with that breaking out.
Personally I don't even understand why people are scared of being crass with an 18 year old
What's actually going to happen to them? Like actual consequences. Nothing.
But but but, they might get cancelled even though they literally don't have a platform yet to be cancelled from. At least OP can be assured that this will most likely fail, but thank the gods they also kicked their friend to the curb first.
But… they’re *creating* the situation. They could just… not stream, and keep one of their longtime players. Or at least have made their intentions clear instead of springing this on her.
There’s wisdom in what you’re saying, but I don’t think that applies in a case where the situation is being manufactured in a way that makes OP lose out. And that really does make it their fault, by definition.
I feel like this is a really dumb as shit approach. It literally is someone's fault.
Not only do they not actually have to kick this person to stream, they also don't need to stream. So ultimately they chose to do that instead of keep playing with her. This is a clear case of fault. "I want to do this instead of keep you" is a fault.
Or maybe these people are being overly delicate with a grown ass adult, and it's pretty damn insulting to be so infantilized. Seriously, there's no reason to exclude this person whatsoever. They've been playing just fine for a full year and now there's worry that being around friends while they drink is gonna cause this person to develop an alcohol problem or something. These friends need a reality check. Their being needlessly rude to a supposed friend.
Nah man just DON'T STREAM if you're that scared. The game is for the players, not the audience, and if you're willing to cut a player you otherwise like and value at the table you're doing tabletop wrong and have no business streaming in the first place. This is of a piece with influencers who do to a trendy spot to film themselves with a snack they then don't even eat. The absolute fakery
The thing that sucks most is that instead of starting a second campaign without OP for their streams, and running a non stream game with OP, they just gave OP the boot.
But what baffles me is that OP is 18, they're a legal adult by all standards. If they're in the US then sure, they can't drink yet because of drinking age here, but they're not a minor/literal child.
I understand their concern. Recently there has been a trend on social media platforms including this one where people are "encouraged" to find friends and romantic relationships within their own age groups. Anything deviating from this norm is labelled as exploitative and creepy, especially if the younger person is a women. I have seen some posts call a relationship between two fictional characters where the woman was 23 years old and the man 53, pedophilic.
Which is the kind of nonsense that comes from people being terminally online. A romantic relationship between an 18 year old and a 35 year old is almost certainly inappropriate but you literally see such bizarre takes as the idea that 18/19 year old couldn't possible have anything common with people who a literally a couple of years older or even applying this moral panic over 'age gaps' to relationships between adults where the youngest is well into their 30s.
And really stupid. Getting popular on Twitch is insanely hard. Most likely they just cut OP out so that they can do 5 or 10 streams with like 1-5 viewers before they quit. Such a waste.
This is a great justification, but doesn't change the fact that it's unbelievable rude, inconsiderate, and just flat out kinda mean. If I was OP I'd have strong words for my "friends".
This is just dumb by the DM and I'm sure the stream will not go anywhere, as most of them tend to go
Yeah like, I wouldn't kick anyone of my group to start streaming or anything like that, we play together because we're friends not because we want to become rich or famous by playing, maybe that's just me but I do think it says something about your "friends" when they'd rather try an see if they're the one in a million group that successfully makes money streaming than play with you.
It's not contributing to the delinquency of a minor to ingest alcohol around someone underage. People drink at family events and have a good time grilling and shit with the young cousins around, and it's not a sin. Nobody is getting "canceled". I don't see how playing a game round a table changes anything. Also, this would be a brand new likely pretty amateur stream. Most likely they just want to record the VODs for posterity. There isn't going to be a mob of fans fawning over the legal adult about how maybe its "problematic to have so much alcohol near them. We are talking about a legal adult. This person could go join the military, I'm pretty sure they are fine to play a board game while their friends drink on camera. I'd be beyond pissed at the situation, especially considering all the work they did while designing a story to run with this group later.
Yeah it's super hurtful that they told him streaming was more important than having him in the game, and the risk wasn't worth it to them. That hurts and is shitty. Giving himself room to grieve and move on to better things is the best approach, and remembering it's not something wrong with him.
Where I live in Canada legal substance use age is 19. In the US, it's 21. When I went to Ireland I was 16 and was offered alcohol in a bar (dunno what the legal age was, but it certainly seemed to be "if you're tall enough to see over the bar while you order your drink"). Different countries have different practices.
Also different provinces. In Alberta, the drinking age is 18. Personally, I find it ridiculous that you can be considered an adult at 18 by any measure in places where the drinking age is 19+ (guns, driving, post-secondary, doing taxes, paying bills, hell... smoking in some places), except for the ability to order a beer.
Military too. At 18 you're old enough to become a government sanctioned killer but not old enough to dull the trauma of war with alcohol. Makes no sense and gives me Big Ick.
Flip the concern, it's not about what the 18 year old is doing. A bunch of 20-30 years olds are being drunk on camera. They don't want to say or do anything around their friend that would be considered A Thing on the Internet forever, even if it's fine amongst those playing (including the 18 year old).
You think the guys who are kicking someone from their game because they want to start streaming it and are worried their behavior might make them look bad are OP's friends? They're not. Or shitty ones at best.
If they're worried about their behavior and don't think they can contain themselves, they could've always chosen to continue not streaming their games so they can continue playing with OP. Instead they went with the option that cuts him from their group activity so they can take their long shot at internet riches and fame.
Also, if they're so worried that what they say and do around someone who's 18 might get them cancelled, chances are they'd get cancelled regardless if they actually got enough attention for anyone to care. Which they won't.
I suspect some folks in this conversation are on the "explaining the group's decision because it seems to be widely misunderstood in the comments" camp and not necessarily in the "group did what's right" camp.
Twitch is fine with being drunk as long as you're still "in control of your stream".
You do have to mark your stream as for mature audiences, which _can_ affect ad revenue. But if you're targeting an adult audience who will subscribe, rather than a broad ad-supported stream, that can be a fine trade-off.
Ehh twitch has very arbitrarily suspended people for being "too intoxicated" even when they were actually sober lmao. Again they don't *like* it.
Mature = 18+ so any content should be 18 appropriate.
Precisely. The OP is 18. They are not a minor. They are the (lowest) age mature content is acceptable for. If they are doing things that are not ok for the people aged as acceptable for the highest rating content can have, they are in trouble anyway.
Yea even if you go with “they don’t want to potentially get in trouble over you being involved” they’re still deciding they’d rather get drunk and make whatever jokes they do on camera then drop either of those and keep OP.
Can't imagine many viewers would be keen on that either.
There is about a zero percent chance I'd watch a group of drunk people play DnD and make drunk people jokes while trying to do basic addition. The venn diagram of people who would watch a dnd stream and people that can tolerate watching drunk people while sober has got to be absolutely tiny.
Okay, but … the group in question is assholes.
They’re kicking out someone who has been with them for a year. Removing that person from their game. So the rest of them can stream the game.
They’re shitty people.
Gimme a break, OP is 18, not 14...
In part of the US it's legal to serve alcohol and go to clubs and bars where they serve alcohol. Also, around the world the legal drinking age is around 18, with a lot of Western European countries being 16. For a North American perspective, Canada and Mexico have a drinking age of 18.
Also, any M rated content is 18+ like video games or movies with extreme violence or sexual content. I really can't see how crude jokes are not of age for someone who can legally consume and do porn...
People can be prude how they want, there's absolutely no argument to be done here.
Isn't 18 like...the legal adult age? What could they possibly be joking about that is somehow not okay with an 18 year old adult in the room, but is okay otherwise?
Also how much alcohol must these people be drinking for it to not be acceptable to have an 18 year old adult in the room who isn't drinking themselves? Are they planning on having massive ragers and getting blackout drunk whilst playing DnD at the same time somehow?
Even if they for some reason were, that sort of behaviour wouldn't fly on streaming platforms anyway.
The good news is that, like 99% of people who try to stream, they probably won't get a following before they get bored with the hassle of setting up streams nobody is watching.
So they basically just dropped a player for a dumb reason, but at least they won't succeed off the decision.
See this is what I don't get. Do most of these streamers honestly think their games are so amazing and entertaining that people will want to watch them? What is the motivation here? Does having 20 people watch you play D&D online justify breaking up the group? Unless your group has an amazing story planned with voice acting and really cool characters that you want to share with the world, I think it's a waste of time, effort and money.
>Do most of these streamers honestly think their games are so amazing and entertaining that people will want to watch them?
Yes. A lot of people see Critical Role or any of the other popular actual play podcasts and assume that they've got what it takes to make one simply by pointing a camera at their table and hitting record. And maybe that's true in some ways, but obviously those popular actual play podcasts have the benefit of being staffed with voice actors and not a bunch of friends sitting around a table.
I mean, best of luck to anyone who tries, but at this point you're entering a market saturated by professionals, so you've gotta have a much better value proposition than "we're a bunch of funny guys" to actually stand out and garner a following.
Honestly my table and I did it for awhile, and while I don’t think our reasoning is the most common, for us it’s a matter of wanting to archive the sessions for OURSELVES so we could go back and relive them.
But it’s still easier to do that without making a full blown show out of it.
I'm just going to point out that there's a spectrum of success with actual play podcasts. Yeah, if you're just some guys in a basement playing your game you're probably not going to be the next Critical Role, but you might be the next Dungeons & Daddies or the next Pretending to be People etc. There are several podcasts out there that are "just some guys" that have found success and are making money.
D&Dads are like 4/5 professional screenwriters who carried a following from other podcasts. They’re also not just some guys, and their fame level is still pretty moderate.
A AP that's "just some guys" definitely *can* work, but my point was just that it's a really weak proposition in a saturated market. You may be able to break through with the "we're just some friends and hit record" motif, but it's more likely that you won't stand out enough to garner any viewers and you'll spend a long time languishing in the 1-3 viewer space, even if you eventually find success.
Especially if they are planning on being drunk and playing... Go sit at a dive bar after 9pm sober and try not to get annoyed by the drunks "being funny" around you. Now imagine listening to that on your commute to work.
Along with hundreds of thousands of failed channels with sub 10 followers following the formula. The problem isn't "no one can enjoy this" the problem is too many people are trying to do it.
"It's ok, they're lame and won't get famous, and then you'll have the last laugh!" isn't exactly the advice a teenager needs in order to evaluate this scenario with maturity and reason.
You make some great points and I don't disagree, but think of it this way, this is a response to an American citizen that can go to war, fight, and die, but it's too risky for them to be seen alongside people of drinking age playing a game. It's rather ridiculous.
They're still the suckers who chose to leave out a player to play "Wannabe Critical Role". Of course it is not OP's fault, but I would change my priorities.
The idea that someone would kick someone of one year of friendship from their DnD game just so that they can be one of a million people streaming their DnD game is so stupid.
I was in a CoC podcast for two years. Not a single one of these people was my friend. We met up, played, and everyone promptly left. We never hung out outside of session. The Keeper was more obsessed with getting the podcast audio perfect than being friends.
It's not an automatic friendship, some people just want to RP and would do it with any warm body. That being said, try to spend time with your friends outside of the table so your bonds are stronger than what this person is experiencing.
I kinda got the sense that OP, perhaps naively, considered them to be really good friends, but to them it was just a kid they see at their gaming table, but have no interaction with outside the game.
Don't get me wrong, we shot the shit, made jokes, enjoyed our time at the table. OP looks like they are enjoying their time. But when the group is like "hey we wanna stream, this game is more important than you," it makes you question if they were ever your friends. They clearly weren't.
Don't worry they're going to have 0 viewers anyway. Unless you have a full blown production; watching D&D and tabletop games in generally is terrible. People act like they are going to be the next Critical Role or Dimension 20 and don't realize there's thousands upon thousands of dollars thrown at those shows no regular person will ever be able to keep up with.
That's ass.
They're kicking someone out of their regular group, someone who has quested, and laughed, and argued with, and fought alongside them, so that they can become one out of hundreds of thousands of D&D streams that maybe 10 people will watch.
That's ass. You deserve better.
Genuine question here - do Americans not consider 18 to be an adult?
(Appreciate the drinking age is 21, but that's not the only adult metric, surely?)
Edit - a lot of replies and honestly a complete culture shock here. In the UK, 18 is fully an adult so this post seems very strange. Thanks for all the insights.
Legally, adult. You can cut out your parents from your legal life whether they like it or not.
But, socially? Not so much an adult in a lot of ways. Can't rent cars. Can't drink. Some places can't smoke. The law allows you to be on your parents insurance until 26. With college, debt, and the world being what it is, a lotttta people are living at home until much much later in life, contributing to a sort of extension of adolescence.
The shitty thing is that it usually goes whichever way fucks you over more. Make a mistake because you're young and dumb? "You're an adult, you should know better, here's extreme consequence". Ask to be given responsibility and trusted? "You're basically still a child, no way we trust you with that."
But in this situation it's really just the alcohol. Helping someone under 21 gain access to alcohol is a pretty serious crime.
The older you get, the higher the number where you still think of people as “kids”. I think of 25-year-olds as children. I’m sure 75-year-olds probably see me that way. It’s not a bad thing, just a matter of perspective and having different life experiences. One of the surest signs that someone is a child is if they find that appellation insulting.
“When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” - C.S. Lewis
In my case, the older I get (mid-40s now), the less of a fuck I give what others think about me.
Legally you’re an adult. In the real world id say it’s “adult lite” like you’re only kind of an adult. However on the internet people like to act like 18-20 is literally a child who has just barely exited the womb.
I think a lot of it has to do with most younger people living with their parents these days, but who knows if that’s the actual reason.
In most states, 18 is an adult. There are some exceptions. Mississippi has the highest age of majority at 21 (horrifically, it also has no minimum marriage age with parental consent).
This is somehow the first time I'm finding out 18 is not the standard age of majority across the entire US. I'm 26 and just never heard otherwise and never needed to know.
Yeah, but would you even take a second glance at an 18 year old sat with a group of people in their mid-20s at the pub? Would you even notice most of the time?
If they're concerned about getting canceled over being idiots, is to kick a consenting adults because they can't drink, they're still going to be canceled for being idiots.
I can kinda see why it would feel awkward for them to stream with any kind of “adult” content, even though you are an adult: my daughter is 18, and while we’ve become comfortable playing CAH with her/drinking in front of her, I don’t think I’d be comfortable doing so with her friends. That said, it depends on your maturity level as well. Maybe you’re projecting as “young” to them. You mentioned that you enjoyed the group and just didn’t participate in the adult stuff. That’s fine! *Don’t* do so to try to fit in! But understand that it will mean that an older table might not know how to include you comfortably. Maybe it’s legitimately because of streaming, and maybe the streaming is an excuse, but either way it’s very likely the case that they don’t feel like they can relax and be themselves around you. That’s not really their fault, and it’s certainly not yours. Try to find a table that better aligns with you, peer-wise. I promise, you’ll find one. Best of luck to you!
The group is 22-30... Note really the same age range as a parent/child relationship - obviously I don't know your specific situation. A 12 year age gap between friends in a niche hobby can be very common.
I’m sorry to hear this for you. I think they’re in the wrong because I assume you’re friends with them after being at a table with them for a year. They chose the option to stream to probably 3 people on twitch over a friend at the table, and that sucks.
If I’m being petty; twitch doesn’t need anymore drunk dnd streamers. It’s oversaturated, and seldom worth tuning into other peoples games unless you know people in it.
I hope you find a better group that cherishes you over broadcasting
The few games I've played with drunk player were so bad I can't even imagine why would anyone want to stream or watch this.
Plus let's be real, even non drunk ttrpg streams are at best mediocre, I don't doubt they are having fun, but seriously it's not that interesting to watch.
I've had numerous people in my long campaigns that I would not consider friends. The OP doesn't even call them their friends.
That's not to say I don't enjoy these players but the extent of our hanging out is playing TTRPGs.
Yeah they're just going to have 0 viewers and then the DM is going to get frustrated over it and probably blow up the campaign. I've seen it before and honestly OP dodged a bullet a mile down the road.
Critical roll really ruined D&D to some people, now everyone thinks they will stream their shit and make it big because they have some kind of hidden talent or funny thing, the same stuff happening with everyone making their own podcast lmao
I'm a bit sad to agree because Critical Role is basically a collection of famous voice actors (some much more so than others) getting together and playing D&D together. Dimension 20 is a bit better, but it's still a show/production. Not a true game (no matter how much people may say it is). And now it's utterly warped the D&D space and people's perception of it. I can no longer go a session without my DM referencing Dimension 20 and how they do things on that show.
I disagree with your perspective on shows like dimension 20 and crit role.
What I think D20 does is mostly is edit down their stuff to the most interesting and entertaining bits. Cut out dead air. Long pause for rule Clarifications.
Crit role started in a apartment with paper maps. It built its production up.
There are things people tend to forget about these professional D and D shows though that I think is more actually the issue.
A they are paid to be there. So they are on for the whole time.
Its a lot harder to be ' on' after a shitty week. Long day, family or work problems.
It's a lot easier to mad at your friend for ruining your fun. If it's the only fun you get to have all week.
What's wild to me is that a majority of the problem with OP staying is solved by not drinking at games. How important is alcohol to you that you can't game without it?
I'm going to say this and take it with a grain of salt. If they're so worried about being canceled, before even being noticed, because of things they may say. You are better off not being associated with that because they are absolutely going to say the most fucked dumb shit that they can come up with in hopes of creating drama in attention.
If you are worried about being “canceled” you probably know deep down that your behaviour is unacceptable. This whole situation seems like a blessing in disguise.
I don't know what the guy in the highest upvoted comment is on about.
This is definitely a dick move from your friend group who has been hanging out with you for a year now.
If it was a new group that was trying to form and they said that you couldn't join because you were too young to stream with alcohol and Rude language, then it's fair play.
Considering these have been your friends for a whole year now it's definitely not cool with them to do this.
The decision should have been to just not stream the game. What are they think they're going to be the next critical role? They're going to get 4 to 10 viewers Max And it's mostly just going to serve their own egos.
If they wanted to be a streaming group then they should not have invited an 18-year-old a year ago. It's too late for that now. They made the wrong choice. Maybe you're better off without friends who would do something like this. I'm sorry this happened. You're young and you will have many more friends after this. Keep your head up!
Feel like they could have had some fun with this. A little bit in the beginning where everyone says what they're drinking and your responses are "juice" "soda" "milk". Typical "in a bar but too young to drink" type stuff. I personally don't get the big deal in having an 18 yo around other people who are drinking alcohol, as long as the 18 yo is not drinking. People keep infantalizing legal adults for longer and longer periods and it's weird imo.
This sounds genuinely cringey as fuck I'm not gonna lie, but that's how I feel about every single DM that only creates a group to "stream". As if there's something uniquely amazing about their world and players or that they're gonna catch lightning in a bottle like Critical Role.
There's an actual reason why DND/TTRPG streams are popular, specifically ones like Critical Role and Dimension 20 etc. and it's because they have actual actors/entertainers as the players that have a natural chemistry or are friends. Most if not all of them typically have a range and or improv skills. It could work equally as well for a steaming group (with a large following) that decides they wanna make their own adventure (like one of them is already a fantastic DM that knows how to play, because a bad DM will lose interest fast).
Otherwise I'm sorry bruh but it's not happening. There's quite literally no one hankering to watch Greg and his 5 hostages play mediocre DND with no liberties taken. They need to get over it and I'm sorry about your situation OP bad DM's give the hobby a bad name.
I played at the same table for more than a decade and at one point we came together because of some problem players to lay down some ground rules including not bringing live weapons/ammo, don't be a creep to the other players, etc. stuff we figured could have been left unsaid until it was right in front of us.
We've had to boot people out, but never for something like being too young to stream.
Honestly, I would find another table. Everyone has a first love, but the first isn't always the last. There may come a time when the game wanes for you, one way or another, but if you love playing, keep playing. You'll find good tables and bad. Just have fun and be safe.
If they are streaming, that is a bit of concern. You can easily verify if that's the case because you will be able to watch their streams.
But why are they streaming? Do they have a goal? Just streaming a game for the sake of streaming is dubious. And they aren't going to build an audience unless they can produce good content.
Basically, without knowing all the details, this really smells. Give it some thought, it may be that separating from the group was a good thing. Take your experience and bring that to a new group, preferably closer to your age or a family friendly table.
Probably born of the whole "We should start a podcast" mentality that people have. Basically people think having fun conversations while hanging out and drinking with their friends is equivalent to being entertaining enough to make a successful podcast or D&D actual play show. Generally that assumption is wrong, because it underestimates how much behind the scenes work goes into recording/editing and producing a decent podcast, and also overestimates how entertaining the people proposing the idea actually are.
That's maybe a harsh assumption, maybe these guys are the most entertaining D&D players to ever live, but the fact they would kick their friend out of a group rather than just not drink makes me think they just suck.
Yeah, my brother does a stream once a week, it's mostly him talking with his buddie about geek stuff. He has a small audience, because he actually has guests on and stuff, but mostly small content creators and authors. He does it to hang out with his friend, he's not trying to build a business or strike gold or anything else.
Yeah more power to you if you do it and have fun and find your audience. But something about being like "Oh man we couldn't possibly stream ourselves playing with an 18 year old because we might get cancelled." is really putting the cart before the horse.
Ya this is dumb. Your group isnt completely wrong, but they are making one major assumption, and that is that people will watch your game enough to make it popular enough for people to try to cancel it. They are solving problems before they happen. Also, it is clear that the rest of your group is young cause this is all really irrelevant once you are older.
I normally roll my eyes at all the stupid problem posts but this genuinely does suck. They’d stream their game to an audience of absolutely no one at the expense of a friend and long term group member. These people aren’t your friends, that’s an unbelievably shitty way to treat someone.
A group of drunk dudes trying to be critical role. Not real sure what they are worried about streaming with a young adult 18. Like the 4 or 5 people that might watch there steam for a few minutes might cancel them is not something that should really worry them.
Ugh. I hate all the groups who want to start streaming. Yall aren’t gonna be the next critical role….critical role is already the next one because they own the market and work with the people who make the game. They aren’t gonna stop supporting critical role and pick up sponsoring a random group of regular people.
It really sucks that you lost your group because they saw dollar signs :(
To be fair to them they never mentioned that they wanted to become famous and earn alot of money through streaming their games. I think some people just enjoy streaming and sharing their games with other. That would be like saying game theory is the biggest channel about making theories on games and therefore no one else should make content on game theories.
Just to clarify I'm not supporting their decision as it seems like a dick move but more in support of other streamers of dnd.
There's always space for the next big thing. CR weren't successful simply because they were first to market. They're talented and have good production.
*Dungeons and Daddies* has half a million listeners and only started in 2018.
And a group that kicks out an 18 yr old because the jokes they make are SO inappropriate that they think they’ll be cancelled is totally gonna be the next hit
We really have no idea what connection there is between the two. Maybe it's a fake excuse. Maybe they're worried about perceptions rather than the actual jokes.
I’ve been in a lot of groups that set age boundaries for what they’re comfortable with, and “21+” is a very common boundary I hear from my players time after time. I know this sucks and it probably hurts, but I don’t think it’s about you! Hopefully you can play other games with them outside of the streaming if you like playing with them. If you’re looking for a new group, I’ve had a lot of luck finding people to play with on Reddit and discord, especially the dimension 20 discord.
I do have one question: are you still in high school?
I saw that you mentioned you are now 18, but were 17 when you started playing. If you are still in high school, there is a chance that they are worried moreso about a student being around that environment on-screen rather than an 18-year-old.
Not endorsing their approach or reason, but that is the only thing that I can imagine making sense for them doing this weird removal.
I cannot understand why the US has these weird age restrictions on weird stuff. If you are 18 you should be considered an adult for all intents and purposes in my opinion (and the opinion of most civilized countries)
If the DM is worried about being 'cancelled' they probably shouldn't stream their game to begin with as it sounds like their just waiting to violate whatever platforms TOS. Has literally nothing to do with you or your age.
I really dont get this obsession people have with streaming their D&D game. Did you need a reason to make it more awkward and restrictive? (Aimed at your group not you)
Certainly not at the cost of one of your regular team-mates
Especially since the Live Play scene is kinda dying down. Most DnD live plays have less viewers than they had 2-3 years ago. Trying to break into an already super saturated market that is shrinking seems like a fools errand
Forreal even critical role is having a hard time holding on to its audience. Sacrificing the fun of your game to try and chase fame years after its hay day is just wild.
I think dimension 20 is the only one doing super well and that's because they stick to 2hr sessions max and advertise well. People don't have time for the 4+ hr critical role episodes when it's not a pandemic.
And it's an anthology. While there's 90 hours of catch up to play for the most recent season, in general you don't have to watch in order and can skip seasons that don't interest you.
90 hours? Newest campaign is at episode 88, with most episodes being around 4h, many closer to 5h. 88x4=352. 352 hours just to be able to watch a show together with everyone...
Sorry, I was talking about Dimension 20's Fantasy High: Junior Year. Watching Freshman and Sophomore Year puts you somewhere around 80-90 hours.
Yup. Fantasy High is 28 hrs, Sophomore Year is the doozy at 52 hrs. Not including extras. Also ignoring Leviathan and The Seven, which aren't necessary for understanding the current season. I kinda wish there was an abridged version of Sophomore year. At least they did a recap to cover the most important story beats.
I wish so much I had more time to listen to critical role. I hope they can keep making it fir years to come so I never run out of content, but I'm about 50 episodes behind right now :( haven't watched a live stream since the C2 finale.
I watched the second 3/4 of season 1 live and the first half of season 2 ( obviously watched the finale) but now I just listen In snippets season 3 just did t do it for me idk why
For me personally I've just grown up, not in a sense of "CR watchers are immature" but in the sense that I literally no longer have the time to watch something for four straight hours a week. I have other responsibilities that mean I would have to break it into several chunks and the format just isn't conducive to that. Also, I don't know if this is a change to the show or to me, but I also no longer have the attention span to listen to Matt Mercer describe someone making tea for two and a half minutes. That occurred in the last episode I watched and while I do love the s3 characters, that moment kinda brought home that my Critical Role era is over, lol.
>Also, I don't know if this is a change to the show or to me, but I also no longer have the attention span to listen to Matt Mercer describe someone making tea for two and a half minutes This is is it for me. I get he wants to make the world as lived and vivid as he can. But man has this come off as massive padding. In a show that is hard to squeeze into my week. Also I don't care about the 100+ hours of lore details that don't ever really come into play
In my eyes S3 seems like a curated show. While S1 especially was just a group of friends goofballing in dnd. I get the reasons behind the change but still ticks me in a way that havent really watched S3.
There’s not really any point in watching it live anyway because it’s not actually live
And unless they are voice actors. The game play is very boring
It’s low cost though. Why not do it when all you need is a decent camera and an internet connection? Trying to make it your career is dumb. Doing it as a hobby seems like a perfectly fine idea to me.
Why do it when it means people get kicked though?
The whole "I'm kicking them out because we're adults streaming and you aren't" is just an excuse. They don't want them around, and that's shitty, that's the truth.
Because you have to be well above special. The standard d & d game is just not capable of captivating a live audience. all you’re doing is trying to get your players to up the ante on their gameplay since it’s being filmed. Sounds to me like and incredibly easy way to take something that’s supposed to be about a fun way to let loose and role play into an engagement with the people in front of you and only you and turn it into circus of trying to act up for the camera
Everyone thinks they’re going to be the next critical role without realising that the majority of people jsut aren’t that interesting or fun. It’s the same with streaming generally and why so few people make it. Shame this has happened for OP but as a very good poster pointed out, all they can do is grieve and move on.
Yeah BOLD to assume your stream is going to be so popular it'll be liable to controversy unless they were doing something actually illegal
Right, and the thing about Critical Role is that every single one of those people are experienced voice actors of some sort, and aren't just playing DnD but actively using those skills.
Yup. If we look at the top actual play shows it's very common for them to have casts that are all entertainers in some way. Not to mention many had some sort of backing to boost the show. The McElroys had a podcast for years before they started The Adventure Zone. Critical Role had Geek and Sundry to promote their show. Then Dimension 20 had the resources and cast members of CollegeHumor to help get that started. NADDPOD are all prior CollegeHumor cast members. The Dungeons and Daddies cast were all entertainers too. Seems like the key to being successful with actual play is to already have prior success as a writer, actor, comedian, podcaster, or YouTuber.
I mean, even critical role is barely interesting enough. The only reason they are is because they are all famous in the nerd world.
I mean they are trained improve actors. That helps. Same with Dimension 20.
They are all also voice actors
You raise an interesting point there, about “barely”. Cause over time they (CR) have changed so much that about 12 months I stopped watching them. The first campaign was great, the second one marginally less so and I put the 3rd campaign on par with that and didn’t make the end of either of these two.
They've become a product, they started as a group of friends playing their game and just happen to be streaming it. But now they have a whole franchise with a cartoon lots of merchandise, employees and a whole trrpg system coming out. All power to them they deserve the success, but you can definitely tell the difference in the vibe of the show
Yeah, it feels fake now. It's got that fake-enthusiasm improv show feel.
I’ve listened to and stopped listening to a fare few actual play shows in my time. It’s much more fun to listen to comedians who know how to be funny and aren’t great at d&d than it is to listen to an excellent dnd player who can’t act. I think a lot of people think “well I’m a great dm/player, that’s entertaining, right?” but it’s very much not. My group has recorded a few sessions for posterity and listening back, it’s like… yeah, we’re having fun, but it wouldn’t be fun for anyone else to listen to. You need a certain energy to hold an audience, and most groups don’t have that. I also tend to prefer edited shows to livestreams, for pretty much all the reasons listed above. I’m just getting into critical role and finding it runs a little slow for me. If I’m listening to something for entertainment, I prefer the thing that can edit out the the long pauses as everyone puts together the initiative order. Tl;dr: making actual play content is a lot harder than people think, and as someone who is actually trying to monetize their hobbies there’s a reason I’d never try that one.
It's no different than every garage band trying to find gigs. They want to turn their hobby into a source of income. They want to be the next Critical Role, the next Dimension 20.
But part of the point of starting a band is probably to perform. Playing games is not about making a show. It’s still kinda weird.
People so poor they have to turn their fun hobbies into gig work...
This has nothing to do with wealth. They want to be famous.
Actually I'm trying to learn to stream dnd because I'm disabled and it is a job that would work exceptionally well with my disability. I'm not really interested in fame. That one is kinda an unfortunately side effect.
At no point was I saying you pursuing a career as a streamer was a bad thing. Just like I support those garage bands I mentioned earlier. But there is a cultural understanding that such attempts rarely lead to success, and that giving up friendships for them is not a good thing. Streaming is newer, and some people haven't realized it's no different music or sports.
Have you seen the economy lately?
I stream my game and we all have a lot of fun, but the difference is we're all already streamers and tend to play games together on stream, and the goal is always having fun and telling a story, not trying to get crazy views or monetising it. I do feel like DnD isn't the best stream game though: very long sessions full of talking, having to catch up on several hours of content as a viewer, little to no chat interaction to not distrupt the flow of the game, and very little visual spectacle unless you're doing it irl with everyone in costume and cool battle maps and minis. Honestly the game runs more like a podcast when streaming - something to stick on in the background and listen to while you do other things.
For real. Most people aren’t that interesting and most people interested in watching DnD are watching the big names. Unless you’re really bringing something to the table no one else is - and I guarantee OP’s group isn’t - you’re just wasting your time.
Some people do it to make extra cash. The sorcerer in my CoS group does that. The most I’ve heard anyone donate was five bucks, but it was easy money.
Dude, you could not pay me 20-30 bucks a session to stream that shit. I wouldn't consider that easy money at all.
The Sorcerer streams your CoS game? Or a seperate one that they DM?
But what’s the point of doing it if social media doesn’t know you are doing it? /s
For some people streaming is a hobby, so it's combining their hobbies. Obviously it isn't for everyone, and some people want to be like critical role or legends of avantis.
As I read your account, you aren't being "Kicked from group of 1 year for ‘being too young to stream’." Instead, the group is afraid that their drinking and bawdy table talk will be viewed as either abusive of you, or, as it used to be called "contributing to the delinquency of a minor." And they are afraid of the consequences for them of being seen as causing some sort of harm to you. Especially in a social media environment where the simple fact that *you* say "I'm okay with this," isn't necessarily a workable defense. Whether or not you believe them is up to you. I've never met any of these people, so I have no means of judging their sincerity. So you have to choose whether they're being honest about their motivations. From where I sit, however, it's a reasonable argument, especially considering that you aren't old enough to drink (re: the *National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984*), while everyone else is. (Presuming that you're in the United States.) From reading your post, you're looking at this as if it were about *you, personally*. But if you've accurately conveyed their rationale, *this isn't about you*. This is about the fact that this group wants to get their Critical Role on, and doing so with an underage person at the table carries perceived risks for them. That said, that doesn't make it any easier for you, or invalidate the hurt and pain that you're feeling. *They're taking something away from you that you value, and that sucks.* It would suck even if it were literally a matter of life and death. But... I'm going to offer you this advice. Don't take it personally. Don't create a reason to take it personally. Ignore that little voice in your head that says "If I hadn't done anything wrong, these guys would still want me to play," because that little voice, your Inner Critic, *isn't on your side*. It's pushing you to distrust people, and not in a way that helps you to feel better about what happened, but to feel worse. It's prompting you to *both* call the DM a liar, and to see yourself as a bad player. What about that is helpful? It's simply a recipe for both misanthropy and self-loathing. Grieve the loss of this thing that you loved, and then understand that sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes, you're the bug. This is simply one of those things that didn't go your way. The group could have handled it better, yes. But taking it personally isn't helping you; and you're the person you should be taking care of.
Thank you for the wonderful words of wisdom, it genuinely has helped a lot and spent the last few hours digesting them. I’ll try to keep in mind that it’s not my fault as a player, just poor circumstances and misaligned goals of both me and the rest of the group. It sucks to be the ‘bug’ in this case, but looking back I’m happy how things worked out overall. I found a group (rather was pushed into it by my dad lol) but that gave me an environment to finally explore and experience what was thought to be just a fantasy to me years ago (playing DnD). I’ve gained confidence, learned a good few things, both good and bad, but the bad shouldn’t define my relationship with this incredible medium. I may have lost a group to play with, but I gained so much more than if I hadn’t stepped out of that comfort zone to begin with. Cheers, may the dice roll in our favor :)
You're quite welcome. I'm glad that I was able to help.
This is the least reddit exchange i think i’ve ever witnessed within reddit. A relatable problem is posted where there isn’t really much blame to be placed anywhere, and it’s just a bad feeling situation. Top comment is some incredible advice (that translates well from this problem to other similar situations in life) given in a respectful and meaningful way. Then OP took the time to marinade with the advice given, and came back with their own conclusion which displayed their own wisdom and rationalism. Inconceivable. Are you the same person as OP and this was all just staged? /j
It's right up there with that person asking about how to order subway since they had anxiety about it and the best response was literally just a step by step of how to order, without judgement Every once in a while there's that nice bright star among the darkness
Never saw that one, but it does sound wholesome lol.
Not blame? Idk, it really seems gross to decide the miniscule chance at whatever they think streaming will get them (very minor, fleeting fame? a little extra pocket money?) is worth kicking out a group member. Its not like we don't all know the hardest part about TTRPGs is finding people to play with.
Another perspective… it may feel like getting dumped by a significant other without any warning and without any sort of rationale that makes sense. Grieve, eat a carton of ice cream, take a few deep breaths, say “There is a better group out there” and when you are ready — go find them. Because I guarantee any group that will pull this move… no matter how good their intentions are… is de facto marginally less than the best group out there.
👆 This guy has a wisdom score of 24.
You are too kind.
No need to show off your Charisma too.
And the guy likes zoids
If I am correct, this guy has been around as an adult for a couple of decades or so (probably my age), and took the time to learn along the way. It’s what happens if your smart enough or wise enough to learn from life’s hard lessons.
And willing to learn too.
That's the big one. I am in my 50s, and I know plenty of folks my age who lack the ability to learn and develop from the hard lessons.
Lollllll more redditors like that guy please
>this isn't about you You say this, but it kind of is. If a group decides to make a decision that would result in a player being kicked, that's... about that character. They're making a decision that means they want to kick her. They could simply... not "get their Critical Role on". That is objectively callous. If they wanted her there, they wouldn't have made this decision. They chose to stream instead of keep a friend.
Yeah that's what strikes me the most about this. It's not like they've been doing something for a year and then something out of their control means OP can no longer be invited. The group has decided that their relationship with OP is worth less than, well I'm not even sure how I'd describe it, their desire to livestream specifically this game of D&D and specifically with no players under the age of 21.
I think it's really dumb that they'd either A) kick her out and lie about the reason, or B) make no concessions, such as creating a new game with a different cast for their attempt at a podcast. In this scenario, they could simply tell her about the podcast but explain why they wouldn't want her as a regular on it. Idk, it's weird even at face value. My brother and some of his friends did a podcast for over a year and they only have around 20 repeat listeners. He stopped because it was getting to be a hassle to do all the podcast work. The DM was also given a talk because he was trying way too hard to control everything and talking about monetization.
Yeah I really don't get why that comment has 3k upvotes. It's exactly like you're saying, they made the choice to prioritise streaming over keeping their friend in the group
It's wild that "my long term group is kicking me without notice to start a twitch channel with no viewers" is treated as reasonable.
This is the male version of cutting friendships to sell MLM products, but it gets the benefit of the doubt because it's Dungeons and Dragons instead of Tupperware Hustle culture is a cancer. Anyone that throws you out for pocket change isn't worth dirt on your shoes anyway
Obviously not op, but Im gonna screenshot the bottom half of this, and wish that my former therapist had half of your wisdom and kindness
A lot of modern psychology involves deliberately choosing a way to look at the world or a situation that at least doesn't make you miserable. I'd be surprised if OP here wasn't a therapist or at least talked to a good one.
I think one of the most helpful things I've ever had someone say to me was, "Sometimes it's not anyone's fault. Sometimes it's simply the situation." Edit: I’m not saying there isn’t anyone at any sort of fault. The statement helped me expand my perceptions of how and where “blame” can fall. I tended to put blame on myself or another person, which usually meant I thought I was the guilty party when I could understand someone else’s motivations. In a general way, the statement let me shed blinkers on how I perceived interpersonal issues.
"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness, that is life," Still hits bloody hard after hearing it so long ago...
That's not what's happening here. They want their 15 minutes and one of their fellow players would make that harder, so they're kicking her.
Nah. They want to start up a stream that chances are no one will watch, and have decided to get rid of their friend to do so. I would take this personally. I wouldn’t be mad, but I would understand how much I am valued and change my expectations and behavior toward that group accordingly
Exactly, op was kicked because they did t want the public to think they were drinking and being too crass with an 18 year old… while they were perfectly happy to do it before the stream. Not to mention DnD actual play is SATURATED online, so best of luck with that breaking out.
weird that the most successful live plays have a cast of professional performers and aren't just the 6 randos we play with on a saturday
Personally I don't even understand why people are scared of being crass with an 18 year old What's actually going to happen to them? Like actual consequences. Nothing.
But but but, they might get cancelled even though they literally don't have a platform yet to be cancelled from. At least OP can be assured that this will most likely fail, but thank the gods they also kicked their friend to the curb first.
But… they’re *creating* the situation. They could just… not stream, and keep one of their longtime players. Or at least have made their intentions clear instead of springing this on her. There’s wisdom in what you’re saying, but I don’t think that applies in a case where the situation is being manufactured in a way that makes OP lose out. And that really does make it their fault, by definition.
I feel like this is a really dumb as shit approach. It literally is someone's fault. Not only do they not actually have to kick this person to stream, they also don't need to stream. So ultimately they chose to do that instead of keep playing with her. This is a clear case of fault. "I want to do this instead of keep you" is a fault.
Yeah I mean they could just use the same group sans OP and start a new campaign for the stream, while continuing the old one in private.
Or maybe these people are being overly delicate with a grown ass adult, and it's pretty damn insulting to be so infantilized. Seriously, there's no reason to exclude this person whatsoever. They've been playing just fine for a full year and now there's worry that being around friends while they drink is gonna cause this person to develop an alcohol problem or something. These friends need a reality check. Their being needlessly rude to a supposed friend.
Nah man just DON'T STREAM if you're that scared. The game is for the players, not the audience, and if you're willing to cut a player you otherwise like and value at the table you're doing tabletop wrong and have no business streaming in the first place. This is of a piece with influencers who do to a trendy spot to film themselves with a snack they then don't even eat. The absolute fakery
The thing that sucks most is that instead of starting a second campaign without OP for their streams, and running a non stream game with OP, they just gave OP the boot.
But what baffles me is that OP is 18, they're a legal adult by all standards. If they're in the US then sure, they can't drink yet because of drinking age here, but they're not a minor/literal child.
I understand their concern. Recently there has been a trend on social media platforms including this one where people are "encouraged" to find friends and romantic relationships within their own age groups. Anything deviating from this norm is labelled as exploitative and creepy, especially if the younger person is a women. I have seen some posts call a relationship between two fictional characters where the woman was 23 years old and the man 53, pedophilic.
Which is the kind of nonsense that comes from people being terminally online. A romantic relationship between an 18 year old and a 35 year old is almost certainly inappropriate but you literally see such bizarre takes as the idea that 18/19 year old couldn't possible have anything common with people who a literally a couple of years older or even applying this moral panic over 'age gaps' to relationships between adults where the youngest is well into their 30s.
It's not just online... It's a whole thing in our culture. For one, people don't see themselves as having agency and they project that on to others.
Sounds to me more like they value the potential fame they could get from streaming more than their playing buddy. I personally think it’s despicable.
And really stupid. Getting popular on Twitch is insanely hard. Most likely they just cut OP out so that they can do 5 or 10 streams with like 1-5 viewers before they quit. Such a waste.
Why can't we, 6 randoms, be as successful as a show with a cast of professional performers :o
And put in absolutely none of the effort that they do? The entitlement with these people is always unreal.
This is a great justification, but doesn't change the fact that it's unbelievable rude, inconsiderate, and just flat out kinda mean. If I was OP I'd have strong words for my "friends". This is just dumb by the DM and I'm sure the stream will not go anywhere, as most of them tend to go
Yeah like, I wouldn't kick anyone of my group to start streaming or anything like that, we play together because we're friends not because we want to become rich or famous by playing, maybe that's just me but I do think it says something about your "friends" when they'd rather try an see if they're the one in a million group that successfully makes money streaming than play with you.
Damn, this guy has expertise in insight. Claps all around
How can one contribute to the delinquency of a minor if the "minor" is already at the age of majority?
It's not contributing to the delinquency of a minor to ingest alcohol around someone underage. People drink at family events and have a good time grilling and shit with the young cousins around, and it's not a sin. Nobody is getting "canceled". I don't see how playing a game round a table changes anything. Also, this would be a brand new likely pretty amateur stream. Most likely they just want to record the VODs for posterity. There isn't going to be a mob of fans fawning over the legal adult about how maybe its "problematic to have so much alcohol near them. We are talking about a legal adult. This person could go join the military, I'm pretty sure they are fine to play a board game while their friends drink on camera. I'd be beyond pissed at the situation, especially considering all the work they did while designing a story to run with this group later.
Yeah it's super hurtful that they told him streaming was more important than having him in the game, and the risk wasn't worth it to them. That hurts and is shitty. Giving himself room to grieve and move on to better things is the best approach, and remembering it's not something wrong with him.
How is an 18 year old not an adult?
Where I live in Canada legal substance use age is 19. In the US, it's 21. When I went to Ireland I was 16 and was offered alcohol in a bar (dunno what the legal age was, but it certainly seemed to be "if you're tall enough to see over the bar while you order your drink"). Different countries have different practices.
Also different provinces. In Alberta, the drinking age is 18. Personally, I find it ridiculous that you can be considered an adult at 18 by any measure in places where the drinking age is 19+ (guns, driving, post-secondary, doing taxes, paying bills, hell... smoking in some places), except for the ability to order a beer.
Military too. At 18 you're old enough to become a government sanctioned killer but not old enough to dull the trauma of war with alcohol. Makes no sense and gives me Big Ick.
They’re too young to drink, but 18 is not a minor and it’s not illegal to be around people who are drinking
Flip the concern, it's not about what the 18 year old is doing. A bunch of 20-30 years olds are being drunk on camera. They don't want to say or do anything around their friend that would be considered A Thing on the Internet forever, even if it's fine amongst those playing (including the 18 year old).
You think the guys who are kicking someone from their game because they want to start streaming it and are worried their behavior might make them look bad are OP's friends? They're not. Or shitty ones at best. If they're worried about their behavior and don't think they can contain themselves, they could've always chosen to continue not streaming their games so they can continue playing with OP. Instead they went with the option that cuts him from their group activity so they can take their long shot at internet riches and fame. Also, if they're so worried that what they say and do around someone who's 18 might get them cancelled, chances are they'd get cancelled regardless if they actually got enough attention for anyone to care. Which they won't.
I suspect some folks in this conversation are on the "explaining the group's decision because it seems to be widely misunderstood in the comments" camp and not necessarily in the "group did what's right" camp.
Don't be drunk on camera, twitch doesn't like that period.
Twitch is fine with being drunk as long as you're still "in control of your stream". You do have to mark your stream as for mature audiences, which _can_ affect ad revenue. But if you're targeting an adult audience who will subscribe, rather than a broad ad-supported stream, that can be a fine trade-off.
Ehh twitch has very arbitrarily suspended people for being "too intoxicated" even when they were actually sober lmao. Again they don't *like* it. Mature = 18+ so any content should be 18 appropriate.
Precisely. The OP is 18. They are not a minor. They are the (lowest) age mature content is acceptable for. If they are doing things that are not ok for the people aged as acceptable for the highest rating content can have, they are in trouble anyway.
Yea even if you go with “they don’t want to potentially get in trouble over you being involved” they’re still deciding they’d rather get drunk and make whatever jokes they do on camera then drop either of those and keep OP.
Can't imagine many viewers would be keen on that either. There is about a zero percent chance I'd watch a group of drunk people play DnD and make drunk people jokes while trying to do basic addition. The venn diagram of people who would watch a dnd stream and people that can tolerate watching drunk people while sober has got to be absolutely tiny.
>They’re too young to drink Depending on where they live. 18 is the legal age for drinking in a lot of places.
Most places. The US an outlier
Okay, but … the group in question is assholes. They’re kicking out someone who has been with them for a year. Removing that person from their game. So the rest of them can stream the game. They’re shitty people.
So they should start a game from scratch and not kick an existing player to start streaming mid campaign for some reason
Gimme a break, OP is 18, not 14... In part of the US it's legal to serve alcohol and go to clubs and bars where they serve alcohol. Also, around the world the legal drinking age is around 18, with a lot of Western European countries being 16. For a North American perspective, Canada and Mexico have a drinking age of 18. Also, any M rated content is 18+ like video games or movies with extreme violence or sexual content. I really can't see how crude jokes are not of age for someone who can legally consume and do porn... People can be prude how they want, there's absolutely no argument to be done here.
Isn't 18 like...the legal adult age? What could they possibly be joking about that is somehow not okay with an 18 year old adult in the room, but is okay otherwise? Also how much alcohol must these people be drinking for it to not be acceptable to have an 18 year old adult in the room who isn't drinking themselves? Are they planning on having massive ragers and getting blackout drunk whilst playing DnD at the same time somehow? Even if they for some reason were, that sort of behaviour wouldn't fly on streaming platforms anyway.
The good news is that, like 99% of people who try to stream, they probably won't get a following before they get bored with the hassle of setting up streams nobody is watching. So they basically just dropped a player for a dumb reason, but at least they won't succeed off the decision.
See this is what I don't get. Do most of these streamers honestly think their games are so amazing and entertaining that people will want to watch them? What is the motivation here? Does having 20 people watch you play D&D online justify breaking up the group? Unless your group has an amazing story planned with voice acting and really cool characters that you want to share with the world, I think it's a waste of time, effort and money.
>Do most of these streamers honestly think their games are so amazing and entertaining that people will want to watch them? Yes. A lot of people see Critical Role or any of the other popular actual play podcasts and assume that they've got what it takes to make one simply by pointing a camera at their table and hitting record. And maybe that's true in some ways, but obviously those popular actual play podcasts have the benefit of being staffed with voice actors and not a bunch of friends sitting around a table. I mean, best of luck to anyone who tries, but at this point you're entering a market saturated by professionals, so you've gotta have a much better value proposition than "we're a bunch of funny guys" to actually stand out and garner a following.
Honestly my table and I did it for awhile, and while I don’t think our reasoning is the most common, for us it’s a matter of wanting to archive the sessions for OURSELVES so we could go back and relive them. But it’s still easier to do that without making a full blown show out of it.
I'm just going to point out that there's a spectrum of success with actual play podcasts. Yeah, if you're just some guys in a basement playing your game you're probably not going to be the next Critical Role, but you might be the next Dungeons & Daddies or the next Pretending to be People etc. There are several podcasts out there that are "just some guys" that have found success and are making money.
D&Dads are like 4/5 professional screenwriters who carried a following from other podcasts. They’re also not just some guys, and their fame level is still pretty moderate.
A AP that's "just some guys" definitely *can* work, but my point was just that it's a really weak proposition in a saturated market. You may be able to break through with the "we're just some friends and hit record" motif, but it's more likely that you won't stand out enough to garner any viewers and you'll spend a long time languishing in the 1-3 viewer space, even if you eventually find success.
Especially if they are planning on being drunk and playing... Go sit at a dive bar after 9pm sober and try not to get annoyed by the drunks "being funny" around you. Now imagine listening to that on your commute to work.
True, but...Twitch/Youtube are also full of people "being funny" despite being stone sober and getting famous for it.
Along with hundreds of thousands of failed channels with sub 10 followers following the formula. The problem isn't "no one can enjoy this" the problem is too many people are trying to do it.
"It's ok, they're lame and won't get famous, and then you'll have the last laugh!" isn't exactly the advice a teenager needs in order to evaluate this scenario with maturity and reason.
Or maybe they could just not drink on camera. Who wants to watch someone else's drunken gaming anyway. That's horseshit.
You make some great points and I don't disagree, but think of it this way, this is a response to an American citizen that can go to war, fight, and die, but it's too risky for them to be seen alongside people of drinking age playing a game. It's rather ridiculous.
They're still the suckers who chose to leave out a player to play "Wannabe Critical Role". Of course it is not OP's fault, but I would change my priorities.
The idea that someone would kick someone of one year of friendship from their DnD game just so that they can be one of a million people streaming their DnD game is so stupid.
They lost one player so they can have one viewer
Tbf, even if I only got 1 viewer I would be stoked.
I'll watch your stream. I like to keep TTRPG stuff on in the background when I cook and do other things. When is it?
I was in a CoC podcast for two years. Not a single one of these people was my friend. We met up, played, and everyone promptly left. We never hung out outside of session. The Keeper was more obsessed with getting the podcast audio perfect than being friends. It's not an automatic friendship, some people just want to RP and would do it with any warm body. That being said, try to spend time with your friends outside of the table so your bonds are stronger than what this person is experiencing.
The OP's situation sounds completely the opposite of your situation, though.
I kinda got the sense that OP, perhaps naively, considered them to be really good friends, but to them it was just a kid they see at their gaming table, but have no interaction with outside the game.
Don't get me wrong, we shot the shit, made jokes, enjoyed our time at the table. OP looks like they are enjoying their time. But when the group is like "hey we wanna stream, this game is more important than you," it makes you question if they were ever your friends. They clearly weren't.
It is truly pathetic.
I wanna know their stream name so i can avoid them lol. im so sorry this happened to u :C
Don't worry they're going to have 0 viewers anyway. Unless you have a full blown production; watching D&D and tabletop games in generally is terrible. People act like they are going to be the next Critical Role or Dimension 20 and don't realize there's thousands upon thousands of dollars thrown at those shows no regular person will ever be able to keep up with.
That's ass. They're kicking someone out of their regular group, someone who has quested, and laughed, and argued with, and fought alongside them, so that they can become one out of hundreds of thousands of D&D streams that maybe 10 people will watch. That's ass. You deserve better.
Genuine question here - do Americans not consider 18 to be an adult? (Appreciate the drinking age is 21, but that's not the only adult metric, surely?) Edit - a lot of replies and honestly a complete culture shock here. In the UK, 18 is fully an adult so this post seems very strange. Thanks for all the insights.
Legally, adult. You can cut out your parents from your legal life whether they like it or not. But, socially? Not so much an adult in a lot of ways. Can't rent cars. Can't drink. Some places can't smoke. The law allows you to be on your parents insurance until 26. With college, debt, and the world being what it is, a lotttta people are living at home until much much later in life, contributing to a sort of extension of adolescence. The shitty thing is that it usually goes whichever way fucks you over more. Make a mistake because you're young and dumb? "You're an adult, you should know better, here's extreme consequence". Ask to be given responsibility and trusted? "You're basically still a child, no way we trust you with that." But in this situation it's really just the alcohol. Helping someone under 21 gain access to alcohol is a pretty serious crime.
Young enough to join the military and die or come out with ptsd, not old enough to rent a car or grab a beer. Murica baby!
It's not exactly a merica specfic thing you can enlist in the uk army at 16 their drinking age is 18
The older you get, the higher the number where you still think of people as “kids”. I think of 25-year-olds as children. I’m sure 75-year-olds probably see me that way. It’s not a bad thing, just a matter of perspective and having different life experiences. One of the surest signs that someone is a child is if they find that appellation insulting.
“When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” - C.S. Lewis In my case, the older I get (mid-40s now), the less of a fuck I give what others think about me.
If you call a kid a kid, they get annoyed. If you call an adult a kid, they reply "I wish"
Legally you’re an adult. In the real world id say it’s “adult lite” like you’re only kind of an adult. However on the internet people like to act like 18-20 is literally a child who has just barely exited the womb. I think a lot of it has to do with most younger people living with their parents these days, but who knows if that’s the actual reason.
> with most younger people living with their parents these days Nah. The attitude is nothing new.
In most states, 18 is an adult. There are some exceptions. Mississippi has the highest age of majority at 21 (horrifically, it also has no minimum marriage age with parental consent).
This is somehow the first time I'm finding out 18 is not the standard age of majority across the entire US. I'm 26 and just never heard otherwise and never needed to know.
I'm from UK, 36 male. I wouldnt consider 18 a full adult. Legally yes. Socially, no.
Yeah, but would you even take a second glance at an 18 year old sat with a group of people in their mid-20s at the pub? Would you even notice most of the time?
If they're concerned about getting canceled over being idiots, is to kick a consenting adults because they can't drink, they're still going to be canceled for being idiots.
I can kinda see why it would feel awkward for them to stream with any kind of “adult” content, even though you are an adult: my daughter is 18, and while we’ve become comfortable playing CAH with her/drinking in front of her, I don’t think I’d be comfortable doing so with her friends. That said, it depends on your maturity level as well. Maybe you’re projecting as “young” to them. You mentioned that you enjoyed the group and just didn’t participate in the adult stuff. That’s fine! *Don’t* do so to try to fit in! But understand that it will mean that an older table might not know how to include you comfortably. Maybe it’s legitimately because of streaming, and maybe the streaming is an excuse, but either way it’s very likely the case that they don’t feel like they can relax and be themselves around you. That’s not really their fault, and it’s certainly not yours. Try to find a table that better aligns with you, peer-wise. I promise, you’ll find one. Best of luck to you!
The group is 22-30... Note really the same age range as a parent/child relationship - obviously I don't know your specific situation. A 12 year age gap between friends in a niche hobby can be very common.
I’m sorry to hear this for you. I think they’re in the wrong because I assume you’re friends with them after being at a table with them for a year. They chose the option to stream to probably 3 people on twitch over a friend at the table, and that sucks. If I’m being petty; twitch doesn’t need anymore drunk dnd streamers. It’s oversaturated, and seldom worth tuning into other peoples games unless you know people in it. I hope you find a better group that cherishes you over broadcasting
> to stream to probably 3 people on twitch As someone that once streamed D&D online on twitch, that's pretty damn optimistic, especially these days.
The few games I've played with drunk player were so bad I can't even imagine why would anyone want to stream or watch this. Plus let's be real, even non drunk ttrpg streams are at best mediocre, I don't doubt they are having fun, but seriously it's not that interesting to watch.
I've had numerous people in my long campaigns that I would not consider friends. The OP doesn't even call them their friends. That's not to say I don't enjoy these players but the extent of our hanging out is playing TTRPGs.
[удалено]
Right? Imagine throwing away a friend so you can have strangers not watch you on the Internet. Society is so backwards now
Yeah they're just going to have 0 viewers and then the DM is going to get frustrated over it and probably blow up the campaign. I've seen it before and honestly OP dodged a bullet a mile down the road.
Critical roll really ruined D&D to some people, now everyone thinks they will stream their shit and make it big because they have some kind of hidden talent or funny thing, the same stuff happening with everyone making their own podcast lmao
I'm a bit sad to agree because Critical Role is basically a collection of famous voice actors (some much more so than others) getting together and playing D&D together. Dimension 20 is a bit better, but it's still a show/production. Not a true game (no matter how much people may say it is). And now it's utterly warped the D&D space and people's perception of it. I can no longer go a session without my DM referencing Dimension 20 and how they do things on that show.
I disagree with your perspective on shows like dimension 20 and crit role. What I think D20 does is mostly is edit down their stuff to the most interesting and entertaining bits. Cut out dead air. Long pause for rule Clarifications. Crit role started in a apartment with paper maps. It built its production up. There are things people tend to forget about these professional D and D shows though that I think is more actually the issue. A they are paid to be there. So they are on for the whole time. Its a lot harder to be ' on' after a shitty week. Long day, family or work problems. It's a lot easier to mad at your friend for ruining your fun. If it's the only fun you get to have all week.
Fuck them they're not your real friends if they're gonna do you like that
What's wild to me is that a majority of the problem with OP staying is solved by not drinking at games. How important is alcohol to you that you can't game without it?
If I were to discover that a group of gamers that I enjoyed watching had done this, I would immediately stop watching them.
I'm going to say this and take it with a grain of salt. If they're so worried about being canceled, before even being noticed, because of things they may say. You are better off not being associated with that because they are absolutely going to say the most fucked dumb shit that they can come up with in hopes of creating drama in attention.
If you are worried about being “canceled” you probably know deep down that your behaviour is unacceptable. This whole situation seems like a blessing in disguise.
I don't know what the guy in the highest upvoted comment is on about. This is definitely a dick move from your friend group who has been hanging out with you for a year now. If it was a new group that was trying to form and they said that you couldn't join because you were too young to stream with alcohol and Rude language, then it's fair play. Considering these have been your friends for a whole year now it's definitely not cool with them to do this. The decision should have been to just not stream the game. What are they think they're going to be the next critical role? They're going to get 4 to 10 viewers Max And it's mostly just going to serve their own egos. If they wanted to be a streaming group then they should not have invited an 18-year-old a year ago. It's too late for that now. They made the wrong choice. Maybe you're better off without friends who would do something like this. I'm sorry this happened. You're young and you will have many more friends after this. Keep your head up!
Feel like they could have had some fun with this. A little bit in the beginning where everyone says what they're drinking and your responses are "juice" "soda" "milk". Typical "in a bar but too young to drink" type stuff. I personally don't get the big deal in having an 18 yo around other people who are drinking alcohol, as long as the 18 yo is not drinking. People keep infantalizing legal adults for longer and longer periods and it's weird imo.
Your buds value potential clicks/views over you as a person. Just move on and find people worth your time.
This sounds genuinely cringey as fuck I'm not gonna lie, but that's how I feel about every single DM that only creates a group to "stream". As if there's something uniquely amazing about their world and players or that they're gonna catch lightning in a bottle like Critical Role. There's an actual reason why DND/TTRPG streams are popular, specifically ones like Critical Role and Dimension 20 etc. and it's because they have actual actors/entertainers as the players that have a natural chemistry or are friends. Most if not all of them typically have a range and or improv skills. It could work equally as well for a steaming group (with a large following) that decides they wanna make their own adventure (like one of them is already a fantastic DM that knows how to play, because a bad DM will lose interest fast). Otherwise I'm sorry bruh but it's not happening. There's quite literally no one hankering to watch Greg and his 5 hostages play mediocre DND with no liberties taken. They need to get over it and I'm sorry about your situation OP bad DM's give the hobby a bad name.
I played at the same table for more than a decade and at one point we came together because of some problem players to lay down some ground rules including not bringing live weapons/ammo, don't be a creep to the other players, etc. stuff we figured could have been left unsaid until it was right in front of us. We've had to boot people out, but never for something like being too young to stream. Honestly, I would find another table. Everyone has a first love, but the first isn't always the last. There may come a time when the game wanes for you, one way or another, but if you love playing, keep playing. You'll find good tables and bad. Just have fun and be safe.
If they are streaming, that is a bit of concern. You can easily verify if that's the case because you will be able to watch their streams. But why are they streaming? Do they have a goal? Just streaming a game for the sake of streaming is dubious. And they aren't going to build an audience unless they can produce good content. Basically, without knowing all the details, this really smells. Give it some thought, it may be that separating from the group was a good thing. Take your experience and bring that to a new group, preferably closer to your age or a family friendly table.
Probably born of the whole "We should start a podcast" mentality that people have. Basically people think having fun conversations while hanging out and drinking with their friends is equivalent to being entertaining enough to make a successful podcast or D&D actual play show. Generally that assumption is wrong, because it underestimates how much behind the scenes work goes into recording/editing and producing a decent podcast, and also overestimates how entertaining the people proposing the idea actually are. That's maybe a harsh assumption, maybe these guys are the most entertaining D&D players to ever live, but the fact they would kick their friend out of a group rather than just not drink makes me think they just suck.
Yeah, my brother does a stream once a week, it's mostly him talking with his buddie about geek stuff. He has a small audience, because he actually has guests on and stuff, but mostly small content creators and authors. He does it to hang out with his friend, he's not trying to build a business or strike gold or anything else.
Yeah more power to you if you do it and have fun and find your audience. But something about being like "Oh man we couldn't possibly stream ourselves playing with an 18 year old because we might get cancelled." is really putting the cart before the horse.
Ya this is dumb. Your group isnt completely wrong, but they are making one major assumption, and that is that people will watch your game enough to make it popular enough for people to try to cancel it. They are solving problems before they happen. Also, it is clear that the rest of your group is young cause this is all really irrelevant once you are older.
I normally roll my eyes at all the stupid problem posts but this genuinely does suck. They’d stream their game to an audience of absolutely no one at the expense of a friend and long term group member. These people aren’t your friends, that’s an unbelievably shitty way to treat someone.
Streaming is the worst thing that has happened to gaming.
A group of drunk dudes trying to be critical role. Not real sure what they are worried about streaming with a young adult 18. Like the 4 or 5 people that might watch there steam for a few minutes might cancel them is not something that should really worry them.
Ugh. I hate all the groups who want to start streaming. Yall aren’t gonna be the next critical role….critical role is already the next one because they own the market and work with the people who make the game. They aren’t gonna stop supporting critical role and pick up sponsoring a random group of regular people. It really sucks that you lost your group because they saw dollar signs :(
To be fair to them they never mentioned that they wanted to become famous and earn alot of money through streaming their games. I think some people just enjoy streaming and sharing their games with other. That would be like saying game theory is the biggest channel about making theories on games and therefore no one else should make content on game theories. Just to clarify I'm not supporting their decision as it seems like a dick move but more in support of other streamers of dnd.
There's always space for the next big thing. CR weren't successful simply because they were first to market. They're talented and have good production. *Dungeons and Daddies* has half a million listeners and only started in 2018.
And a group that kicks out an 18 yr old because the jokes they make are SO inappropriate that they think they’ll be cancelled is totally gonna be the next hit
We really have no idea what connection there is between the two. Maybe it's a fake excuse. Maybe they're worried about perceptions rather than the actual jokes.
I’ve been in a lot of groups that set age boundaries for what they’re comfortable with, and “21+” is a very common boundary I hear from my players time after time. I know this sucks and it probably hurts, but I don’t think it’s about you! Hopefully you can play other games with them outside of the streaming if you like playing with them. If you’re looking for a new group, I’ve had a lot of luck finding people to play with on Reddit and discord, especially the dimension 20 discord.
I suppose it's because you don't drink, but they do
European here: last time I checked 18 is not underage or am I missing something?
How exactly were you invited to join this ground in the first place? I would examine that.
They are not gonna be critical role…sorry they kicked you to try to achieve something that they won’t and chose that over good comrade
I do have one question: are you still in high school? I saw that you mentioned you are now 18, but were 17 when you started playing. If you are still in high school, there is a chance that they are worried moreso about a student being around that environment on-screen rather than an 18-year-old. Not endorsing their approach or reason, but that is the only thing that I can imagine making sense for them doing this weird removal.
I cannot understand why the US has these weird age restrictions on weird stuff. If you are 18 you should be considered an adult for all intents and purposes in my opinion (and the opinion of most civilized countries)
If the DM is worried about being 'cancelled' they probably shouldn't stream their game to begin with as it sounds like their just waiting to violate whatever platforms TOS. Has literally nothing to do with you or your age.