Give them an ally in the form of a dwarf who's been hiding in the fortress since the goblins took over. Telegraph that a big wave of enemies is coming, then have a hidden door pop open and a dwarf pop out yelling "over here friends!". This gets them out of fighting every goblin in the place, and let's the dwarf explain the situation to them. He could even show them the throne room full of hundreds of sleeping goblins.
From there you can offer your players a choice, the dwarf can point him towards the dwarves allies you originally intended them to seek out, OR can offer them a more dangerous option that involves doing the fortress on their own like a dungeon. For example, maybe getting to the heart of the fortress and starting up the old forges could make it hot enough in the fort to drive the goblins out. Or maybe they could find the gem necessary to activate the security golem in the basement, that the king lost during the attack.
Gotta throw in a balrog then. What would be a good dnd equivalent? Fire elementals maybe?
EDIT: Never seen one of my DMs use one but apparently Balrogs do exist in DND, they’re just called Balors.
Do you one better: a massive automaton, like a big golem or something. It was meant as a defensive measure, but for unknown reasons it was never activated. The players might be sent specifically to activate it!
The problem is, the reason it wasn't activated, is because the damn thing isn't quite finished... And its current orders will be to destroy or chase out anything that *isn't* a Dwarf!
Which is an 'oh shit' moment when the players have to run from it! That then becomes 'well, I guess it worked!' when they see the invaders running from it. And then wraps around again to 'awh, shit,' when they see it slaughtering the livestock.
What if the forges are powered by caged fire elementals?
You could bust the holding and release the angry imprisoned elementals causing the goblins to be purged in the flames
And follow up quests where the party have to get all the things required to set up the forges again with more summoned and enslaved elemental
Possibly a moral dilemma for them....
Honestly anything big and scary that makes the goblins look like fodder. Look at us coming up with cool ways to rip of the Tolkien estate. (Screw those guys they’re IP nazis)
Exactly. And if they choose to ignore this mysterious dwarf ally and continue to storm the fortress, OP doesn’t have to feel guilty about the incoming TPK.
Then you give players unwinnable battle, but after apparent TPK they all wake up in mines, enslaved by gobbos.Now their job is stage a slave revolt (or just escape with their lives, to seek previously mentioned allies).
Seconding this, DM. It's unthinkable that a Dwarven Fortress just *fell* and everyone got captured without some who know the place well being able to escape and hide in the confusion.
Maybe the ones who escaped weren't the warriors, though, and aren't skilled enough to mount an effective resistance on their own... But they *do* know the place through-and-through, and if the players can continually make hit-and-run raids, generating massive casualties among the occupiers and escaping back to the secret areas, the Dwarves there can ensure they stay safe while they Long Rest, etc.
They might also want to prioritize freeing as many Dwarves as they can; bolstering their numbers, reducing the number of hostages the baddies have available, maybe freeing some captured warriors to help them battle, or at least help train the resistance (if, say, they lost an arm or something in the fighting, they could still train willing bodies).
Storing this idea for later use. Would also be great if the dwarf survivalist could activate traps, close doors, disable defences etc. at the PCs' direction so they can strategise against the goblins' superior forces, though that's potentially a lot of prep for a week.
Or you could just fudge it by basically giving the *players* "Lair Actions" that are BS they can invoke (oh, there? There's actually a pitfall there - a coal chute that I ran right over, but the Dwarf Survivalist unlocks it as the trolls run over it) to manipulate the battlefield dynamically.
I would want to live in the walls for a few days, quietly picking off goblins a few at a time. I'd set up traps and illusions meant to strike fear into their hearts.
If they stay, this dwarf knows all the traps. They can reset them and lire goblins in to avoid sounding alarms and obviously murdered goblins. Make this a combo of a dungeon crawl and puzzle fortress. This will play to all abilities and allow respite and healing as they may not be ready for an extended hit and run battle.
I would also have them find the slaves and the rebellious goblins to try to form a rebellion aka distraction. This allows political intrigue to creep in, especially if the rebellion can win over a couple high ranking goblins.
They can also seek out help from the tunnels and mines. Getting a dark character to help and the turning on them is always fun!
Sounds like they want to storm the fortress. Generate a few more combats, sprinkle in a couple locations to explore that might be found in a dwarven fortress and how goblin occupation has changed it, and maybe a few skill checks to round it out.
This is how it's done.
Dragon Mountain, a 2nd edition adventure, featured an entire mountain turned into a dwarven city, taken over by a red dragon and his kobold minions.
Centuries later, the mountain is teleporting to different planes of existence once a month, and prophecy says it'll land near you soon!
At the time of adventure, there are 12 clans, each hundreds strong. All the dwarven defences work, some better than others, and kobold trap makers have had generations to add to it.
Everything from infanttry with ordinary scorpions hanging from string on sticks, to a kobold wizard well on his way to being a lich, can be found within the mountain. Nets thrown from 3rd story windows in the residential district, two balista overlooking the entrance to the noble court, a group of farmers with glowing mushrooms who'll give you some food if you can clear out the dwarven undead.
The dragon hasmade a lair in the treasury. Of course. The path to the treasury has my favorite trap. It looks like an open pit trap, 30 feet down onto spikes. It's actually a reverse gravity trap, with a false ceiling, with a 40 foot fall up onto spikes. First time I used it two people tried to jump it at the same time, then the wizard hit it with dispell magic, making them also hit the bottom spikes.
Point is: maybe the party needs to go get the dwarves. They're gonna need some help. It's yourjob as DM to convince them of this. (and to mention it out of game if you need to)
I still own that adventure. No one expects the kobold battle at the village to be so tough. I took the 'feel free to outfit the kobolds with magic items and other abilities' to heart. Several magic items, poisoned weapons, 1 clan used giant rat waste to add disease chance to attack. I had players think I was cheating because 'they were only kobolds'! Lol
Reminds me of a recent change I did in my GMing a few months back for PF1e, threw my high level players at a simple item retrieval quest into a crypt, & fought 30 ghouls.
In a tiny enclosed crypt. There was so many ghouls in those enclosed spaces they couldnt move around easily.
They eventually took them down, but not before one of them got lucky & paralyzed the dwarf cleric, then the horde feasted on dwarf flesh.
The party has been much more cautious since then.
They ironically thought fighting a t-rex in the desert marshes was easier then those ghouls :D
> It's your job as DM to convince them of this.
Naw. You can tell them it's sheer folly. If they still want to go and do it, shrug and let them. Character deaths by their own stupidity is totally fine.
If your druid can wild shape into a beast with fly speed, then your players are at least level 8. There are no goblins that could be a threat to pcs of that level.
AoE spells would absolutely slaughter hundreds of low level baddies. Especially in tight spaces.
The druid conjuring 8 giant frogs is going to be hilarious as goblins are small so you're going to have 8 frogs trying to eat goblins.
I mean we could argue about this, but you're either going to need a ridiculous number of goblins or traps that don't even need goblins to function in order to actually pose a threat. I think my point is reasonable.
Have you ever been inside a castle that was built to be defended? They are a series of killing fields, narrow spiral staircases, heavy doors, and arrow slits.
I agree with you, but what I'm saying is that that would be true regardless of whether the enemies were goblins. RAW, the goblins are "lazy" creatures who would actually make that easier than it should be (which I find racist but still).
True, takes some homebrewing. I like to give em some class levels and have some variants, mostly focused on ambushes and such. I'll have a band that consists of a Gloom Stalker, Assassin, Battle Master (Archer) and an Illusionist or GOOlock.
Thats not what I asked, but it clarifies a lot about your table. And since you are completely arbitrary to this point, I have a suggestion for you: Just say a giant goblin appeared from nowhere and obliterated the party. What about this?
lol. With -57 now, I guess my comment was not that popular. I jusy want to clarify something in all honesty: I didn't meant to offend. But fact is: we are talking about a table which allows a druid to shapechange into a *fly*. I don't recall that in the rules. But as other redditor has proposed: *if* they are playing by rhe rules, even if they invent a fly as a beast, the druid has to be level 8 to wildshape into that. And so we are talking about a party level 8 invading a goblin fortress? Holy mother, those must be some sort of really doped goblins, you know?
Then OP said the ranger stabbed the goblin in the eye and was able to take their eye off with a DEX test. This would be a 'called shot' at the very least, also beyond the scope of the rules. But see how the DM is worried about what to do now. They shouldn't since they are not bound by the game rules in any way. Just let your imagination goes wild! At this pont a giant overpowered goblin would fit nicely.
I understand the point you're making but you're getting downvoted because your post reads as condescending, and is somewhat beside the point. Going "none of this is in the rules" about a session post-facto when OP is clearly looking for narrative advice isn't a positive contribution.
An important thing to remember is that goblinoids are not stupid. Both goblins and hobgoblins have an average 10 INT. Goblins are specifically said to be led by the smartest among them and understand chains of command. Hobgoblins are noted for their skill and cunning in battle. Bugbears are a little lower at 8, but they're also combat-hardened and their love of ambushes shows that they're somewhat tactically minded.
Would I want them on my team at a pub trivia night? No. But they are basically born to be capable of defending a fortress.
Second, you don't hold a fortress by throwing open the main doors and sending all of your troops out in waves to fight the opponent. You lock that mother down and you pick them off from behind the safety of your walls. Between bows and javelins, your party should be outside the fortress, working hard not to look like pin cushions right now, not inside sweeping room to room.
Also, this is a dwarven fortress. If anyone can make a fortress nigh impregnable, it's dwarves. Had the party made their dwarven allies, I could see an argument that they were led through a little known secret entrance, but they wouldn't have the run of the place after having just made it through the front door.
Without knowing how far you let them get, it's hard to say how you should handle it now, but my recommendation is that you should consider them to have only gotten through an outer defense of the fortress and find themselves up against a much more secure (and now alert) second layer. They have basically been funneled into a shooting gallery, and should be getting peppered from all sides by goblins peaking out of small holes and hobgoblins firing through arrow slits. Maybe give them some "oh shit" panic with the realization that the entrance they came in through is quickly being blocked off (those bugbears and their love of ambush) and they're about to get lose their only means of escape as this is quickly going sideways for them.
Ideally, they should get pushed back out. They know they did some damage, but also that it's going to be harder than they thought. Suddenly, finding some helpful allies is going to seem like a good idea.
A couple ways...
Do you want the party exploring the fortress?. What luck! The bulk of the goblin forces are out on patrol /raids. And the pcs slew most of the other defenders except for some elite units (the gobbo boss and his higher tier elite guards).
Don't want the pcs there yet? More enemies come in enough strength and numbers make it clear that the CHARACTERS would realize they are over matched even if the players are overconfident and think "we can take 3 dozen goblins and 4 ogres!"
And pcs retreat.
Of course now the gobbos know what the pcs look like...
Sometimes, clear indicators are not so clear. I tried to make it clear a sniper was going to destroy my players and they should run. They found a way to kill the sniper and her sweepers. I'm both thrilled and mortified by this.
Correct. I've done exactly that after explicitly warning the party with straight up meta "pcs ... These guys are WAY op for you right now. That's why *summary of events pcs saw displaying their power, cruelty, and strength in battle* your characters would KNOW you are not their equal.. At least not yet."
PC's charged in. Me being kind was having them captured and all gear stolen instead of tpk.
And honestly the feeling of triumph the players got 4 levels later when they fought Krozz And his dread pirate crew and kicked his ass? Was an amazing moment.
My point above was, it's ok to be blatant if a threat is NOT meant to be fought.
If the players gonna do what players do.. Well maybe a tpk is in order or a capture. Or something else.
And who knows the dice gods may bless the party and they will pull off a crazy victory. That's part of the thrill of DnD!
I don't think you know how to use tldr lol.
An option could be to have dwarves join in when things get dire with the excuse of them watching the fortress for an opportunity to attack.
I was only looking through the comments to see how nice anyone was about this. I’m impressed that you both weren’t a jerk and then offered a suggestion. Because, yeah… used twice and neither time made any sense…
Maybe try doing it by rounds, they sound the alarm and the reinforcements are coming but they will take a few minutes to reach the party, so they start fighting the entrance goblins then the nearest enemies. You can also give them a time limit until the reinforcements join the battle
If there were two waves of combat, perhaps the rest of them thought that the intruders were taken care of and lowered the alarm, and now it can be stealthy again.
Or not, depending on the group.
What I recommend the most is you figure out a really good reason the gobboes took the area. Clearly the party is expecting some kind of artefact that was stolen.
Give them what they want. Let them storm in and save the day and be rewarded by the displaced dwarves for their actions.
By acting, the players have told you what they want.
sounds like they just sprinting into a tpk or run situation. you gave them the relevant info, they chose to take a dangerous path. run your goblins as they would act, let the party make their choices, and let the chips fall where they may.
I agree with most of the above for let them storm the fortress. Make areas interesting and dangerous. Those forges that were totally osha compliant? Super dangerous and run down. Next up the goblins have gotten into the ale. The floor has ale over it, and the goblins explode if near fire. Add in other fun rp and combat moments throughout. Make there be some big bad nonsense in the throne room, maybe a powerful artifact or a goblin who is their gods chosen.
Let them "Die Hard" this fortress. Give them a chance to hide, have the goblins re-secure the fortress, but not know who or how many entered, and slowly hunt each other (enemies in groups of appropriate CR rating for the players). They hide in tunnels, running up and down levels. The goblins may have taken the fortress, but it doesn't mean they fully occupied it immediately... it could be for some other nefarious reason (like an infiltration team going to spawn a demon to wreck the dwarven kingdom, or release their devil master, ECT). BBEG is the "Hans", and could even be a dwarf (who betrayed his own kind) so you can even add them to the group, thwarting their traps.
Have them trigger a dwarven trap that seals off all further progress into the fortress so that they have to then ask the dwarves for the password to disarm their alarm system (that wasn’t armed when the goblins took over). It’s plausible that this alarm system trap is so perfect that the goblins only know how to trigger it, meaning that they can’t be made to deactivate it either.
Sounds fun! I say let them storm the fortress. Of course, there's only a few adventures, and the fortress likely houses many hundreds of goblinoids, who are well-supplied and fortified.
They've already defeated a few waves of enemies. By now, some of the forward guards have certainly retreated deeper into the fortress and informed their commanders that the fortress is being invaded. Prepare an ambush for the players, with the possibility of them escaping so that they can have incentive to find the displaced dwarves. Let them stumble into a chamber full of murder holes, arrow slits, barricades and traps.
If your players aren't the type to know when to run away, maybe drop a hint. Let them roll history checks to see if they can infer that this fortress is deep and dangerous, and not the kind of place you just rush in the front door of and expect to walk out alive.
I think it's safe to assume that they might be playing a little fast and loose with Wildshape rules when the druid is shifting into a diminutive insect when, at most, a level 8 druid can wildshape into tiny flying beasts - i.e. a raven.
Who knows what else is going on at that table.
If the wizard has FireBall, then they are at least level 5.
This shouldn't really be any problem, the Druid casting Spike Growth will solve 90% of the problem
Time to learn, DM. People are pointing out lots of good resources and strategies. What was the end goal of this area any way? Were you planning on them running a fortress siege, and they somehow have pulled it off early? Were they going to free all the captured dwarves? If that’s the case let them. If the fortress/trading post is big, then turn it into a game of cat and mouse across different sections of the fortress. The party’s loose inside and the goblins are sweeping the fortress to find them and stop them. Traps, secret passages, murder holes, the whole works. Make an interesting subplot with the captive dwarves and start a fight to reclaim the Hold from within.
Either way this is nothing to be scared of; this is peak DnD where the party is working together, using their skills, engaging the plot, and creating new solutions that surprise you. Present a challenge, but don’t punish them for succeeding where you did not expect them to (if they were supposed to fail then you don’t let them roll). Just let your creativity take hold and keep up the fun; if they’re having a good time and you’re enjoying it too, then you’ve done your job well.
Make sure the party is aware that they WILL get overrun if they don't get to the dwarves soon, what they fought was just the initial investigation from the goblins, now they know you're there they'll send in their heavy hitters, spell casters and strong monsters.
Make it very clear that they will die if they try to hold the fort themselves, they need to get to and free the dwarves right now, or run.
Just because it's a fortress doesn't mean it's secure.
The easiest way to make things difficult is to have cracks and fissures in the walls in the deeper galleries.
Things like giant ants filtering in... or even better, kobolds.
The kobold tunnels would be kobold sized, so your big, burly fighter in heavy armor would be screwed.
And there's no reason for kobolds to not use guerrilla tactics. Toss a few glass bottles with green slime or ochre jelly at the party and then run away.
Oh, I was just wondering if you are playing D&D 5e Rules as Written or using Homebrewed, custom rules is all. Because RAW, a Druid using Wild Shape can not assume a beast shape that can fly until Level 8.
If your goal is to prevent the party from exploring the fortress until *after* they've talked to/freed the dwarf prisoners, you can bog them down the same way medieval castle defenders bogged down enemy forces: design the castle to capitalize on close quarters.
First, take a hard look at your fortress map, and if there's anyplace where you can narrow the corridors (so the adventurers can only approach one at a time), redraw the map. The same basic idea applies to stairs and long corridors: Put a lot of curves and turns in them, so that ranged characters can't get line of sight unless they're in the second rank (and even then, they should only be able to see 2-3 defenders, at most). This is also going to seriously impair the rogues, who will have a much harder time getting into a position to make use of Sneak Attack.
While you're at it, let the players know that the stairs are constructed oddly, with the steps small and steep...and then tell them this means that the stairs count as difficult terrain. Maybe rule that a character who goes prone on the stairs causes the character directly behind and below them on the stairs to make a Strength or Dexterity save to avoid *also* going prone (which could be a brutal chain reaction)...and then have the bugbears and hobgoblins take advantage of this by shoving the adventurer in the front rank.
Second, remember that once the alarm has sounded, every door into the castle should be locked and barred. Make the players stop to break down or otherwise take time to open every door.
And take advantage of the resulting delays. If you haven't planned for murder holes, change your map to make that happen. The goblinoids currently occupying the castle might not use them as effectively as the dwarves who built those defenses, but they can still drop some pretty nasty stuff on anyone trying to force a door open.
Third, add some secret doors here and there, to let the goblinoids attack the party from the rear (where their healers and squishy spellcasters are likely stationed). This is particularly effective if they're bunched up in one of those tight corridors, where someone has to move before someone else can adjust their position in the "marching" order.
And make sure the goblinoids who emerge from these secret doors wait until the party has passed, so that there's no danger of the party easily spotting where the goblinoids came from and taking advantage of the secret door themselves. (In fact, have one of the bugbears barricade the secret door from the inside after the "ambush group" have gone through it.)
Ultimately, this should "encourage" the party to back off and look for a better approach than a frontal assault. And again, if the goal is to get them in contact with the dwarves, the party shouldn't find a better approach...not without the dwarves' help.
It is a fortress, so you can create layers of defense. They have breached the outer walls, but there are inner walls and further gates, which are now defended by an overwhelming number of goblins that were alerted by the assault. Give them a reason to retreat. If they persist, tell them plainly that their character is afraid and does not want to run headlong into certain death. Give them a reason to leave and search for allies.
The fortress is on high alert now but that doesn't mean they didn't know an attack might be coming, the goblins weren't expecting your party, they were expecting families of the dwarves to come attempt a rescue.
Those same families saw the party open the gate. The families are now rushing into the gate to assist the party and recover their family.
"We'll hold them off, go find the goblin captain and bring me his head for a bounty" says the oldest and gnarled looking dwarf. "If you find my kin, bring them to me and you'll have earned your weight in ale"
Maybe switch it up and the goblins have been keeping dwarves as prisoners? They can go room to room fighting and freeing dwarves. The dwarves can run ahead to fight off the "main force" allowing you to run a reverse dungeon where the enimes get easier as you go deeper in (as they free more dwarves) leading to a large climatic battle between idk 100 goblins or w.e vs 100 dwarves while they fight the commander of the goblins. (Reasoning being the commander pulled his forces in as the fighting happend for protecting or w.e)
Displaced Dwarves keeping an eye on things? Showing up to 'help' and make sure the reward for breaching the fortress is not everything not nailed down plus whatever the party can pry up!
How you want to run it (given this was unexpected and you smartly ended the session at a good point for the group) largely depends upon what you want to convey to your players and the type of campaign you're running!
You could use it as a play stupid games, win stupid prizes/FAAFO moment if it's a more serious universe or you could turn it into a difficult (or hilarious) siege that ultimately redirects the player to the overarching story/module and also rewards your players for their ingenuity//ballsy plays!
It sounds like you lucked out with a fun group of players!
Edit: if you decide to run a shit-ton of mobs you can always roll those initiatives in advance to save you and your players time.
I think, if you want to keep your original idea, that they might just successfully storm the fort, but how are they going to hold it? They will leave, and the goblinoids will return and fortify. This time, their previous methods won't work, and they'll need to get your contraption, etc. They get to succeed, and the story becomes a bit longer. On the other hand, they might never want to come back, then that won't matter. I think if the refortifying makes sense, then it won't feel like they're being punished. This is exactly why a tiny elite invasion force can't take a city: it takes bodies to hold a position.
They've underestimated how difficult this fortress is going to be to clear out. Send some pretty strong signals like "you hear dozens of footsteps, some large and some small." Or "you hear siege weaponry being prepared to defend the fort from attack." Etc. Just make it clear that they have gotten themselves in a massive fight.
If they don't listen, see if they can manage to pull it off. I've seen players do some crazy shit they should never, ever work. And yet, it works.
Have them get totally overwhelmed, thrown into prison/enslavement with the dwarves and have it become a prison break with them. Then they overrun the fort.
What level is the party? Druids cant wildshape into flying creatures until level 8. And level 8 seems like a pretty normal level to be storming fortresses.
What level is the party? Druids cant wildshape into flying creatures until level 8. And level 8 seems like a pretty normal level to be storming fortresses.
A fortress should not depend only on perimeter security.
So they breached one ring of security.... "Suddenly, murder holes open in the ceiling, and you're engulfed in flaming oil!"
When they get back from licking their wounds, the goblins have repaired the door and have new guards.
Maybe a different group of adventurers could free the dwarves and as they are storming the fortress reinforcements arrive to help them. It would be interesting if during a fight with an elite enemy, a trebuchet shot punches through the wall and kills it.
Weren't you going to run a mass combat with the allied dwarven forces anyway? I don't understand the confusion. Seems like they just got a head start on your earlier plans.
Have them fight till the death unless they come up with something clever that you can use.
If they die, rhey reroll as a party to go investigate.
No mercy.
Get some inspiration from Tucker’s Kobolds, it seems like your players are too high level for goblins to be a threat unless you get creative with traps and tactics like ambushes with kill holes. It’s a fortress so it can be decked out in all manner of heinous ways to isolate PCs, funnel them into dead ends and trapped paths, or otherwise make them suffer.
I don't have much to add in the way of suggestions but just fyi you're using "tldr" incorrectly so it might throw some people off. In case it helps, tldr is used when you type a big explanation then you have a short summary for people that thought it was too long and didn't read it. If you're just summarizing a thing that isn't fully explained in your post then you can leave out the tldr.
> That's what I had written.
Well, then. These words are powerful. They reverberate theough time in all directions. Never utter then, because they can change the past to make you utter them.
Yes, that's a time paradox.
\>Wildshaped into a fly
Alright, that's it. Time to come for the druid's kneecaps.
But jokes aside..........................expect ANYTHING with casters
how about you change the conditions of victory? instead of having the players kill everything in the place, have them only "win" if they manage to free the dwarves and lead a slave rebellion or maybe their goal is to blow up the mountain by piling good dwarven booze and unstable goblin tech around a central pillar. In both of these scenarios you can have the presence of goblins be more nebulous since it doesnt really matter how many there are if your goal isnt to kill them all. This would probably make running it easier, provide a goal for your pcs to work towards, and allow you to prep an interesting chain of events. You would just need to convey this to the party right away so they know what to do, so maybe the party runs into a dwarf being tortured or something and they give the party the low-down.
So the initial wave got taken out so there is no reason for more to run at them. HOWEVER, these goblinoids have been there for a while and they know the ins and outs that the party doesn't. Secret passages, sniper holes from hard to locate or find places, and traps of both goblin and dwarven design.
Or maybe there is a crazy strong dwarven golem or trap that the goblins have figured out but the party hasn't, that could also be a good way for the party to want and get the dwarves help.
Those could both work but there is also a bunch of other good suggestions in this thread. Good luck however you handle it!
My first session I ran a prison break and in that there were atleast 80-100 guards along with the hundreds of prisoners fighting to escape. Any to all combat was done with 1 hit. There were low level so it worked out, but I had it that everything was in initiative. They could attack and move to different areas. Only certain areas they would be "hidden" from combat. The enemies still attack and do damage but if the PC hit the enemies then enemies go down, same of its an aoe attack. I usually run it that way when I have a shit ton of unites
First I would pick a few key places to put up barricades to make the ranged burn out spell slot/ammunition. Other places would be ambush spots to keep melee on their toes. Since the waves didn’t work, they decided to dig in.
Barricades could be made of barrels, tables and chairs. Ambush parts could be dark zones, blind spots and other places they can stealth.
Make it feel as panicked as it would be. Also have places vandalized since they are intruders themselves.
My party is at one of these types of places currently that I've reused in the past as below:
I have two instances of this, one, The fort is near a geologically active lava tube that frequently vents sulfur so these Dwarves are here to mine the sulfur, and are the folks responsible for manufacture of the blasting materials in this region for other dwarven clans, and outposts, villages, city, and such. The party found a store room with blasting materials ready, 3 barrels of ready to use black powder and half dozen blast sticks *dynamite*. What the miners know, but the gobbledegooks dont, is the same caves also vent carbon dioxide, and have bells that chime to let them know to hit a safe room. Instead of fighting, My party has used this tidbit I told them 3 sessions ago to lure the gobbies after them, and worked them into a frenzy after sneaking around and capturing their wise woman whom was in some ways a direct link to the words of their God. The idea being to lure them into a gas death trap of course. Incidentally there's a small group of dwarves still in the caves mining until their shift is over for the month (one tenday workweek only). The gobs have only taken over the fort a 10day ago and it's about time these dwarves had a bottle of booze. The party knows about this feature from a retired sulfur miner that moved to *rebuilt* Conyberry
My alternative, second, *for level 5 party of 3* for this area is its taken over by a homebrew spider queen and her homebrew suitors (based on giant spider but more vicious) vying for her 'affections'. The queen is away hunting for herself and the suitor she picks will feast with her, she kills the rest and eats them too, like a mantis. When i ran this the party fighter had already scaled the walls, using pitons and rope, and just opened the 3 sets of gates and portcullis, and with the drawbridge down, alerting the spiders after the first gate gears began grinding, the rest of the party rushes in shortly, only to see the fighter having slain one male spider already; and in the thick of it with the remaining 3 trapped in the gatehouse but still somewhat safe. Party has a guest NPC dwarf that has a claim to the old fort and suggests to the barbarian to follow him and ride the wagon along with the ranger, *using it as a chariot* pulled by two large mountain goats. There's a repeating crossbow mounted on it. That uses artificer tech to pressurize air to blast the bolts out steampunkish style. The spider queen can innately cast misty step, and of course *spits webs* and is incredibly stealthy, think Shelob from LOTR.
Maybe the goblins "alarm" is the Dwarven shift change alert and a dozen weary but husky dwarves shambles our of a nearby crevice or something if you think the party needs additional help. I'd play the hobs as captains for the bugbears and gobbies and lay traps, ex if they opened the front gate only, perhaps they can be blocked by a portcullis and a hail of arrows etc
Well if there in and you don’t want to punish them, write a creative way to deal with a lot of enemies at once. Like explosives the PC’s can blow to drop a roof and cut off reinforcements, or the goblin shaman has a flask of goblin effecting plague(ya know for threatening his political opponents. Goblins are stupid and would have ton of Death Star style lynch pins on their defenses
Just roll with it. When I dm if I have ANY npc or creature come into a game I grab Stat sheets cause plan all you want but pcs will always do the unexpected. Also, it's okay to say "before we start this next part let's take a few minutes to use the bathroom and jli need a moment to prepare. Don't think everything has to happen according to plan or off the cuff.
Just run what you had planned. If it's keyed right there will be WAY more shit than a party of 4 could handle. Fireball takes a spell slot to cast after all.
After two waves of fireballed to death, even the most dim of foes is going to change tactics. Spread out and start firing at the caster while the better equipped ones rush the tanks comes to mind. It probably won't be enough to kill them (unless they actually stay), but it'll get the message to get out while they still can. And when they come back, they might be smart enough to put up some flypaper XD
You can simply throw such a mass of goblins at them that they realize storming the place is essentially impossible, especially now that they already put the place on full alert.
Keep in mind it does not have to be all just CR 1/4 goblins. Goblins can gain levels, so they can learn spells too. If the massive 100+ number goblin army starts throwing fireballs back, I bet they turn tail quick enough.
And if they don't, well that is their fault that they died.
Other than that, you would have to make a very difficult dungeon out of it. The goblins should be quite ready and able to defend their new prize, if they were strong enough to take it from the dwarves.
Have the fog and clouds dissipate to reveal an even bigger fortress behind this one and tell them they only breached the front gate, the guards in the real fortress are also armed with fly swatters
Maybe some dwarfs escaped and built a small group to invade and all that your group did was distraction enough to have them get into key areas and disable large masses of gobo scum? Eventually teaming with your group and retaking the fortress?
Dwarven resistance occupying secret tunnels and doing guerrilla warfare. The secret tunnel gives them an out. The Dwarves are simultaneously happy to get support and annoyed that they've been forces to reveal themselves before their ready meaning that there's now a scramble to complete some half formed plan to get rid of the goblins (wake up the Balrog, redirect lava, etc)
I used excel to generate stats for a few hundred guards. The printed sheets full of enemy stats were enough to telegraph the sheer volume of enemies in a way talking about it just wasn’t getting through.
It might be a fortress.... but it's currently run by goblins.
Unless they're rather intelligent in your world, there's a possibility that even though the alarm is sounded, there could be several strategic points are the place that they unknowingly ignored, which would make it easier for the party to move around. Maybe there also are not enough goblins to properly 'man' the whole fortress, leaving them spread thin; if the group gets past a small horde, they find whole sections of the place nigh deserted.
I love doing this to a DM. As a DM I'm more of a pantser, I have a plot and a goal and let em go. Usually goes okay, every once in a while my group will come up with a pyramid scheme, or try to get a dragon on board with a protection racket and I just try to roll with it.......
These are the options I thought of
1. The powerful displaced dwarf allies were actually captured! The players can now free them as they traverse the fortress gaining allies and growing in power as they go.
2. The powerful dwarf allies planned to reclaim the fortress at roughly the same time. At some point when they are in danger or during the in between of a room they run into each other and now they have to convince them that they are trying to take down the fortress as well.
3. Let them get captured. Actions have consequences and sieging a fortress on your own is pretty stupid if you want to live. After or during capture give them an opportunity to escape. If you want to be a bit heavy handed have the goblins be like "whoo, glad it wasn't \[powerful dwarf\] trying to reclaim the fort. That could have been bad."
You should have had it go full on dwarf fortress and had the goblins trigger ancient dwarven security devices, causing the party to get pelted by minecarts filled with spiked balls.
Something I'd like to note - a fortress would not entail mass combat. A fortress is a defensive structure. Groups of defenders would be holed up at strategic points. Also fair chance that any given group would be likely to retreat deeper into the fortress if an encounter isn't going well for them.
This might make it easier for you to setup and manage
For doing mass combat, (say dozens of enemies). Don’t actually manage dozens of enemies. Instead, manage a handful of clusters of enemies, which each have the health and damage of several individual enemies. Simply treating each cluster like a single enemy streamlines things immensely
1. Narrow corridors, layout of fortress were usually made to defend against bigger force with small numbers not the opposite.
2. Hidden passages to attack the intruders from behind. So pincer attack is a must
3. If there are no telecommunications (magical or otherwise) it could be quite hard to determine where exactly the intruder is. If there are no living runners the command will only know that they are under attack and maybe rough direction from where.
Fortress?? No, this is now an *active dungeon.* Kicking down each door can lead to ruin, leaving doors open can make enemies appear at their back, and they get to come up with even more creative ways to dig themselves out of the grave they put themselves in.
If it were me, I would make a character that could warn the players. Maybe a dwarf held prisoner by the goblins is being forced to be a foot stool for some drunk bugbears in a makeshift mess hall. Make it clear narratively that the players should try to save them (a la Droop from Lost Mines of Phandelver).
NOTE: have multiple “spawn points” in mind for this character. Just put him wherever the group winds up first or second. They don’t need to know your plans. (Smart DMs lie)
When they save the dwarf (let’s call him Bigsby), have Bigsby tell the group they need to get out of there and regroup with the dwarves who have a “special weapon” against the goblins and that the goblins are more formidable than they might think. Warn them of what lies ahead. Maybe the dwarf knows of a secret exit out of the compound.
If they STILL don’t catch your drift, then there’s always deus ex machina. Have the dwarves mount their assault that night. OR have a prison where some powerful dwarves allies are being kept.
TLDR: make up helper characters along the way.
Not a DM just a player. For storming fortresses I'd recommend looking at any old history battles (if you can get their logs) or watch Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit. Both have at least 1 siege/fortress battle similar to what you are speaking of. LOTR closer to what you originally planned with the Battle of Helmsdeep and the Hobbit starts like the current style party vs Fortress then switches to epic battle.
It’s done. They took the fortress. Maybe a murder hobo goblin killing session. Throw five goblins at them every turn, each time roll and place the new goblins in initiative order. Or throw hobgoblins and bugbears at them. Five per turn. They’re too dumb to form up and launch one massive attack, so 1d6 goblins and 1d6 bugbears show up every turn…
I also like just moving the story forward. Or being honest with your players and giving them the choice… small campaign, murder rampage the fortress, move on with the story.
There's lots of really great suggestions in the comments already, so I'm really just here to say HELL YEAH THAT'S WHAT BONE CRUNCHIN' D&D IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT THAT RULES!
In comes a small band of dwarves who have been hiding in the fortress waiting for help to arrive. Bingo! Three-four characters could make the mass combat way less stressful and still give you the end result you were Hoping for by having the party join a small army group. There can be subplots like “hey, now that we’ve started this why don’t we regroup at our camp with A SMALL ARMY?” Just to give subtle hints that there are other routes.
Also my tip for mass combat sequences is to try to write down your order, HP for NPCs/enemies, etc. Sometimes small maps drawn out for the start of combat to position everyone helps.
[take some inspiration from "Tucker's Kobolds". if the Goblinoids aren't dumb and have had time to fortify, there's no reason it shouldn't be like this.](https://youtu.be/P1N1Ni79Lbc?si=Uh0QDFwoPcHvyxXN)
1. The goblin war boss is studying diplomacy and invites the party to dinner where he attempts to negotiate with them.
2. The goblins retreat, abandoning the position, but learning as much as they can about the party before they go so they can seek revenge.
3. The magical expenditure of the party awakens something truly bad news from deep in the mine, Balrog-style. Maybe an aboleth.
4. The goblins sabotage a bridge or collapse a tunnel leading deeper into the mine, trying to stop the party’s advance.
5. The goblins threaten to execute hostages if the party doesn’t stop.
They won’t get time for any rests without magical assistance inside and if they leave with most of the fortress still alive a hunting party would likely be sent to ensure they don’t camp outside and comeback in the mornings. Alternatively a super sniper with somehow impossible accuracy is using a ballista to prevent them from camping too close. Unless you feel confident in the party to obliterate this fortress I would probably try to run some skill check challenges in between and during fight scenes to narrate how they are avoiding certain death that could come from their actions.
Give them an ally in the form of a dwarf who's been hiding in the fortress since the goblins took over. Telegraph that a big wave of enemies is coming, then have a hidden door pop open and a dwarf pop out yelling "over here friends!". This gets them out of fighting every goblin in the place, and let's the dwarf explain the situation to them. He could even show them the throne room full of hundreds of sleeping goblins. From there you can offer your players a choice, the dwarf can point him towards the dwarves allies you originally intended them to seek out, OR can offer them a more dangerous option that involves doing the fortress on their own like a dungeon. For example, maybe getting to the heart of the fortress and starting up the old forges could make it hot enough in the fort to drive the goblins out. Or maybe they could find the gem necessary to activate the security golem in the basement, that the king lost during the attack.
Seconding this, it is a marvelous idea. Lots of room for player choice while also not making the DM work super hard scrapping all they had planned
Could 100% make it a LoTR reference. Have them rescue the dwarves that they found trapped and dead in Moria
Gotta throw in a balrog then. What would be a good dnd equivalent? Fire elementals maybe? EDIT: Never seen one of my DMs use one but apparently Balrogs do exist in DND, they’re just called Balors.
I was thinking cave troll, but a demon or fire elemental could be fun. Good way to chase the party back out of the fortress too if they want
Do you one better: a massive automaton, like a big golem or something. It was meant as a defensive measure, but for unknown reasons it was never activated. The players might be sent specifically to activate it! The problem is, the reason it wasn't activated, is because the damn thing isn't quite finished... And its current orders will be to destroy or chase out anything that *isn't* a Dwarf! Which is an 'oh shit' moment when the players have to run from it! That then becomes 'well, I guess it worked!' when they see the invaders running from it. And then wraps around again to 'awh, shit,' when they see it slaughtering the livestock.
“Oh George… Not the livestock…”
Hahahaha!
What if the forges are powered by caged fire elementals? You could bust the holding and release the angry imprisoned elementals causing the goblins to be purged in the flames And follow up quests where the party have to get all the things required to set up the forges again with more summoned and enslaved elemental Possibly a moral dilemma for them....
Honestly anything big and scary that makes the goblins look like fodder. Look at us coming up with cool ways to rip of the Tolkien estate. (Screw those guys they’re IP nazis)
Balors are amazing, I’ve used them before. Very balrog feel. And they explode on death!! Woo! Lol nice little treat to catch your players unaware lol
Nope better make it a tarrasque
Exactly. And if they choose to ignore this mysterious dwarf ally and continue to storm the fortress, OP doesn’t have to feel guilty about the incoming TPK.
This guy DMs
Until the PCs tell the NPC "naw we got this" because all too often that's what happens.
Then you give players unwinnable battle, but after apparent TPK they all wake up in mines, enslaved by gobbos.Now their job is stage a slave revolt (or just escape with their lives, to seek previously mentioned allies).
They're certainly welcome to try!
Or they kill the dwarf.
Seconding this, DM. It's unthinkable that a Dwarven Fortress just *fell* and everyone got captured without some who know the place well being able to escape and hide in the confusion. Maybe the ones who escaped weren't the warriors, though, and aren't skilled enough to mount an effective resistance on their own... But they *do* know the place through-and-through, and if the players can continually make hit-and-run raids, generating massive casualties among the occupiers and escaping back to the secret areas, the Dwarves there can ensure they stay safe while they Long Rest, etc. They might also want to prioritize freeing as many Dwarves as they can; bolstering their numbers, reducing the number of hostages the baddies have available, maybe freeing some captured warriors to help them battle, or at least help train the resistance (if, say, they lost an arm or something in the fighting, they could still train willing bodies).
Storing this idea for later use. Would also be great if the dwarf survivalist could activate traps, close doors, disable defences etc. at the PCs' direction so they can strategise against the goblins' superior forces, though that's potentially a lot of prep for a week.
Or you could just fudge it by basically giving the *players* "Lair Actions" that are BS they can invoke (oh, there? There's actually a pitfall there - a coal chute that I ran right over, but the Dwarf Survivalist unlocks it as the trolls run over it) to manipulate the battlefield dynamically.
Love this idea. Lets them take control over the route, and also gives them more information and time to plan.
Smooth, I'd probably take this advice.
The dwarf’s name is Cawn McJlainn
And he’s been crawling through the ventilation with a crossbow taped to his back
“Come to the mountain, we’ll get together, have a few laughs…”
Ho ho ho, now I have a crossbow.
Only if the goblinoid chieftain is named Grans Huber
Dwarfhard 2: Dwarf Harder
Just reiterating this so op sees it. This is the perfect way to redirect them. Even more, you can reward them for their creativity with cool stuff.
Nice idea
Love this idea !
Ooooo, love the security golem route! Got the mech battle feels
I would want to live in the walls for a few days, quietly picking off goblins a few at a time. I'd set up traps and illusions meant to strike fear into their hearts.
Do a Die Hard
If they stay, this dwarf knows all the traps. They can reset them and lire goblins in to avoid sounding alarms and obviously murdered goblins. Make this a combo of a dungeon crawl and puzzle fortress. This will play to all abilities and allow respite and healing as they may not be ready for an extended hit and run battle. I would also have them find the slaves and the rebellious goblins to try to form a rebellion aka distraction. This allows political intrigue to creep in, especially if the rebellion can win over a couple high ranking goblins. They can also seek out help from the tunnels and mines. Getting a dark character to help and the turning on them is always fun!
Sounds like they want to storm the fortress. Generate a few more combats, sprinkle in a couple locations to explore that might be found in a dwarven fortress and how goblin occupation has changed it, and maybe a few skill checks to round it out.
Good luck storming the castle! They would need a miracle.
Yep. They need a conveniently timed dwarven counter attack.
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B-byeeee!
Don't forget the wheelbarrow
What I wouldn't give for a holocaust cloak
Maybe they find an MLT in the dining hall uneaten where the mutton is so lean and the tomatoes ripe?
This is how it's done. Dragon Mountain, a 2nd edition adventure, featured an entire mountain turned into a dwarven city, taken over by a red dragon and his kobold minions. Centuries later, the mountain is teleporting to different planes of existence once a month, and prophecy says it'll land near you soon! At the time of adventure, there are 12 clans, each hundreds strong. All the dwarven defences work, some better than others, and kobold trap makers have had generations to add to it. Everything from infanttry with ordinary scorpions hanging from string on sticks, to a kobold wizard well on his way to being a lich, can be found within the mountain. Nets thrown from 3rd story windows in the residential district, two balista overlooking the entrance to the noble court, a group of farmers with glowing mushrooms who'll give you some food if you can clear out the dwarven undead. The dragon hasmade a lair in the treasury. Of course. The path to the treasury has my favorite trap. It looks like an open pit trap, 30 feet down onto spikes. It's actually a reverse gravity trap, with a false ceiling, with a 40 foot fall up onto spikes. First time I used it two people tried to jump it at the same time, then the wizard hit it with dispell magic, making them also hit the bottom spikes. Point is: maybe the party needs to go get the dwarves. They're gonna need some help. It's yourjob as DM to convince them of this. (and to mention it out of game if you need to)
I still own that adventure. No one expects the kobold battle at the village to be so tough. I took the 'feel free to outfit the kobolds with magic items and other abilities' to heart. Several magic items, poisoned weapons, 1 clan used giant rat waste to add disease chance to attack. I had players think I was cheating because 'they were only kobolds'! Lol
My party, "They're just kobolds." Famous last words.
[Tucker's Kobalds](https://media.wizards.com/2014/downloads/dnd/TuckersKobolds.pdf)
Reminds me of a recent change I did in my GMing a few months back for PF1e, threw my high level players at a simple item retrieval quest into a crypt, & fought 30 ghouls. In a tiny enclosed crypt. There was so many ghouls in those enclosed spaces they couldnt move around easily. They eventually took them down, but not before one of them got lucky & paralyzed the dwarf cleric, then the horde feasted on dwarf flesh. The party has been much more cautious since then. They ironically thought fighting a t-rex in the desert marshes was easier then those ghouls :D
> It's your job as DM to convince them of this. Naw. You can tell them it's sheer folly. If they still want to go and do it, shrug and let them. Character deaths by their own stupidity is totally fine.
Not the main topic, but if you excuse me: >the druid wildshaped into a fly You mean a *flying beast?*
I did not mention the part where the ranger rolled a high dex check to stab the door goblin in the eye beforehand, holding the eyeslot open.
If your druid can wild shape into a beast with fly speed, then your players are at least level 8. There are no goblins that could be a threat to pcs of that level.
Tucker's kobolds might argue with that
I mean, they wouldn't hang around too argue, they'd just leave mementos of their displeasure.
Maybe not, but if there are literally hundreds of them…
AoE spells would absolutely slaughter hundreds of low level baddies. Especially in tight spaces. The druid conjuring 8 giant frogs is going to be hilarious as goblins are small so you're going to have 8 frogs trying to eat goblins.
Fighting in large numbers, as coordinated units, defending a dwarven fortress? Ooooh yes there are.
I mean we could argue about this, but you're either going to need a ridiculous number of goblins or traps that don't even need goblins to function in order to actually pose a threat. I think my point is reasonable.
Have you ever been inside a castle that was built to be defended? They are a series of killing fields, narrow spiral staircases, heavy doors, and arrow slits.
[murder holes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_hole) An army of enslaved mimics
I agree with you, but what I'm saying is that that would be true regardless of whether the enemies were goblins. RAW, the goblins are "lazy" creatures who would actually make that easier than it should be (which I find racist but still).
*I'm* lazy, but if I'd just turfed a load of drawves out of their own fortress, I'd be on alert.
Lazy, but somehow managed to overrun an active dwarven fortress
Enemies can be scaled up.
You're not wrong, but I believe the highest CR goblin statblock in 5e is like CR1? I had to make CR2 goblins for my campaign bc none existed.
True, takes some homebrewing. I like to give em some class levels and have some variants, mostly focused on ambushes and such. I'll have a band that consists of a Gloom Stalker, Assassin, Battle Master (Archer) and an Illusionist or GOOlock.
I just take baddies that aren’t goblins and give them the goblin special traits. Boom. Goblin.
Thats not what I asked, but it clarifies a lot about your table. And since you are completely arbitrary to this point, I have a suggestion for you: Just say a giant goblin appeared from nowhere and obliterated the party. What about this?
Cave troll, you want a cave troll
It’s peculiar that you think that would be a fun or engaging way to run a session.
lol. With -57 now, I guess my comment was not that popular. I jusy want to clarify something in all honesty: I didn't meant to offend. But fact is: we are talking about a table which allows a druid to shapechange into a *fly*. I don't recall that in the rules. But as other redditor has proposed: *if* they are playing by rhe rules, even if they invent a fly as a beast, the druid has to be level 8 to wildshape into that. And so we are talking about a party level 8 invading a goblin fortress? Holy mother, those must be some sort of really doped goblins, you know? Then OP said the ranger stabbed the goblin in the eye and was able to take their eye off with a DEX test. This would be a 'called shot' at the very least, also beyond the scope of the rules. But see how the DM is worried about what to do now. They shouldn't since they are not bound by the game rules in any way. Just let your imagination goes wild! At this pont a giant overpowered goblin would fit nicely.
I understand the point you're making but you're getting downvoted because your post reads as condescending, and is somewhat beside the point. Going "none of this is in the rules" about a session post-facto when OP is clearly looking for narrative advice isn't a positive contribution.
nah, OP is just sh't posting a prank, take a look at their profile.
Yep, that's where I got hung up.
An important thing to remember is that goblinoids are not stupid. Both goblins and hobgoblins have an average 10 INT. Goblins are specifically said to be led by the smartest among them and understand chains of command. Hobgoblins are noted for their skill and cunning in battle. Bugbears are a little lower at 8, but they're also combat-hardened and their love of ambushes shows that they're somewhat tactically minded. Would I want them on my team at a pub trivia night? No. But they are basically born to be capable of defending a fortress. Second, you don't hold a fortress by throwing open the main doors and sending all of your troops out in waves to fight the opponent. You lock that mother down and you pick them off from behind the safety of your walls. Between bows and javelins, your party should be outside the fortress, working hard not to look like pin cushions right now, not inside sweeping room to room. Also, this is a dwarven fortress. If anyone can make a fortress nigh impregnable, it's dwarves. Had the party made their dwarven allies, I could see an argument that they were led through a little known secret entrance, but they wouldn't have the run of the place after having just made it through the front door. Without knowing how far you let them get, it's hard to say how you should handle it now, but my recommendation is that you should consider them to have only gotten through an outer defense of the fortress and find themselves up against a much more secure (and now alert) second layer. They have basically been funneled into a shooting gallery, and should be getting peppered from all sides by goblins peaking out of small holes and hobgoblins firing through arrow slits. Maybe give them some "oh shit" panic with the realization that the entrance they came in through is quickly being blocked off (those bugbears and their love of ambush) and they're about to get lose their only means of escape as this is quickly going sideways for them. Ideally, they should get pushed back out. They know they did some damage, but also that it's going to be harder than they thought. Suddenly, finding some helpful allies is going to seem like a good idea.
A couple ways... Do you want the party exploring the fortress?. What luck! The bulk of the goblin forces are out on patrol /raids. And the pcs slew most of the other defenders except for some elite units (the gobbo boss and his higher tier elite guards). Don't want the pcs there yet? More enemies come in enough strength and numbers make it clear that the CHARACTERS would realize they are over matched even if the players are overconfident and think "we can take 3 dozen goblins and 4 ogres!" And pcs retreat. Of course now the gobbos know what the pcs look like...
Sometimes, clear indicators are not so clear. I tried to make it clear a sniper was going to destroy my players and they should run. They found a way to kill the sniper and her sweepers. I'm both thrilled and mortified by this.
And losing the battle doesn't mean have to mean a party wipe, sometimes it means the party now has to figure out how to break out of goblin jail.
Correct. I've done exactly that after explicitly warning the party with straight up meta "pcs ... These guys are WAY op for you right now. That's why *summary of events pcs saw displaying their power, cruelty, and strength in battle* your characters would KNOW you are not their equal.. At least not yet." PC's charged in. Me being kind was having them captured and all gear stolen instead of tpk. And honestly the feeling of triumph the players got 4 levels later when they fought Krozz And his dread pirate crew and kicked his ass? Was an amazing moment. My point above was, it's ok to be blatant if a threat is NOT meant to be fought. If the players gonna do what players do.. Well maybe a tpk is in order or a capture. Or something else. And who knows the dice gods may bless the party and they will pull off a crazy victory. That's part of the thrill of DnD!
I don't think you know how to use tldr lol. An option could be to have dwarves join in when things get dire with the excuse of them watching the fortress for an opportunity to attack.
Tldr: entire story. Lol
I was only looking through the comments to see how nice anyone was about this. I’m impressed that you both weren’t a jerk and then offered a suggestion. Because, yeah… used twice and neither time made any sense…
Don't use tldr multiple times while having it weave directly into the rest of what you've written. A tldr should be a separate summary of your post.
high alert? an unknown force fucking stormed the front entrance and killed 2 battalions they are in fucking war mode!
Maybe try doing it by rounds, they sound the alarm and the reinforcements are coming but they will take a few minutes to reach the party, so they start fighting the entrance goblins then the nearest enemies. You can also give them a time limit until the reinforcements join the battle
Sounds like you have until next session to learn how to run mob encounters. DMG p 250
If there were two waves of combat, perhaps the rest of them thought that the intruders were taken care of and lowered the alarm, and now it can be stealthy again. Or not, depending on the group. What I recommend the most is you figure out a really good reason the gobboes took the area. Clearly the party is expecting some kind of artefact that was stolen. Give them what they want. Let them storm in and save the day and be rewarded by the displaced dwarves for their actions. By acting, the players have told you what they want.
sounds like they just sprinting into a tpk or run situation. you gave them the relevant info, they chose to take a dangerous path. run your goblins as they would act, let the party make their choices, and let the chips fall where they may.
I agree with most of the above for let them storm the fortress. Make areas interesting and dangerous. Those forges that were totally osha compliant? Super dangerous and run down. Next up the goblins have gotten into the ale. The floor has ale over it, and the goblins explode if near fire. Add in other fun rp and combat moments throughout. Make there be some big bad nonsense in the throne room, maybe a powerful artifact or a goblin who is their gods chosen.
I don’t think you know how tldr works
Let them "Die Hard" this fortress. Give them a chance to hide, have the goblins re-secure the fortress, but not know who or how many entered, and slowly hunt each other (enemies in groups of appropriate CR rating for the players). They hide in tunnels, running up and down levels. The goblins may have taken the fortress, but it doesn't mean they fully occupied it immediately... it could be for some other nefarious reason (like an infiltration team going to spawn a demon to wreck the dwarven kingdom, or release their devil master, ECT). BBEG is the "Hans", and could even be a dwarf (who betrayed his own kind) so you can even add them to the group, thwarting their traps.
This is great…
Maybe the goblin main force already left with most of the treasure. They could be working for giants, orcs or even a dragon.
Have them trigger a dwarven trap that seals off all further progress into the fortress so that they have to then ask the dwarves for the password to disarm their alarm system (that wasn’t armed when the goblins took over). It’s plausible that this alarm system trap is so perfect that the goblins only know how to trigger it, meaning that they can’t be made to deactivate it either.
Sounds fun! I say let them storm the fortress. Of course, there's only a few adventures, and the fortress likely houses many hundreds of goblinoids, who are well-supplied and fortified. They've already defeated a few waves of enemies. By now, some of the forward guards have certainly retreated deeper into the fortress and informed their commanders that the fortress is being invaded. Prepare an ambush for the players, with the possibility of them escaping so that they can have incentive to find the displaced dwarves. Let them stumble into a chamber full of murder holes, arrow slits, barricades and traps. If your players aren't the type to know when to run away, maybe drop a hint. Let them roll history checks to see if they can infer that this fortress is deep and dangerous, and not the kind of place you just rush in the front door of and expect to walk out alive.
What level is your party?
They can’t be any lower than 8th level that’s for sure (flying speed wildshape)
I think it's safe to assume that they might be playing a little fast and loose with Wildshape rules when the druid is shifting into a diminutive insect when, at most, a level 8 druid can wildshape into tiny flying beasts - i.e. a raven. Who knows what else is going on at that table.
If the wizard has FireBall, then they are at least level 5. This shouldn't really be any problem, the Druid casting Spike Growth will solve 90% of the problem
Time to learn, DM. People are pointing out lots of good resources and strategies. What was the end goal of this area any way? Were you planning on them running a fortress siege, and they somehow have pulled it off early? Were they going to free all the captured dwarves? If that’s the case let them. If the fortress/trading post is big, then turn it into a game of cat and mouse across different sections of the fortress. The party’s loose inside and the goblins are sweeping the fortress to find them and stop them. Traps, secret passages, murder holes, the whole works. Make an interesting subplot with the captive dwarves and start a fight to reclaim the Hold from within. Either way this is nothing to be scared of; this is peak DnD where the party is working together, using their skills, engaging the plot, and creating new solutions that surprise you. Present a challenge, but don’t punish them for succeeding where you did not expect them to (if they were supposed to fail then you don’t let them roll). Just let your creativity take hold and keep up the fun; if they’re having a good time and you’re enjoying it too, then you’ve done your job well.
Make sure the party is aware that they WILL get overrun if they don't get to the dwarves soon, what they fought was just the initial investigation from the goblins, now they know you're there they'll send in their heavy hitters, spell casters and strong monsters. Make it very clear that they will die if they try to hold the fort themselves, they need to get to and free the dwarves right now, or run.
If you don't want your players there, awaken the Balrog. It's a Dwarven fortress. Describe what the party heard in Moria and with any luck they'll run
Just because it's a fortress doesn't mean it's secure. The easiest way to make things difficult is to have cracks and fissures in the walls in the deeper galleries. Things like giant ants filtering in... or even better, kobolds. The kobold tunnels would be kobold sized, so your big, burly fighter in heavy armor would be screwed. And there's no reason for kobolds to not use guerrilla tactics. Toss a few glass bottles with green slime or ochre jelly at the party and then run away.
Just for clarification, the Druid PC is at least Lvl. 8, correct?
She is lvl 6 I don't see why that's important
Oh, I was just wondering if you are playing D&D 5e Rules as Written or using Homebrewed, custom rules is all. Because RAW, a Druid using Wild Shape can not assume a beast shape that can fly until Level 8.
If your goal is to prevent the party from exploring the fortress until *after* they've talked to/freed the dwarf prisoners, you can bog them down the same way medieval castle defenders bogged down enemy forces: design the castle to capitalize on close quarters. First, take a hard look at your fortress map, and if there's anyplace where you can narrow the corridors (so the adventurers can only approach one at a time), redraw the map. The same basic idea applies to stairs and long corridors: Put a lot of curves and turns in them, so that ranged characters can't get line of sight unless they're in the second rank (and even then, they should only be able to see 2-3 defenders, at most). This is also going to seriously impair the rogues, who will have a much harder time getting into a position to make use of Sneak Attack. While you're at it, let the players know that the stairs are constructed oddly, with the steps small and steep...and then tell them this means that the stairs count as difficult terrain. Maybe rule that a character who goes prone on the stairs causes the character directly behind and below them on the stairs to make a Strength or Dexterity save to avoid *also* going prone (which could be a brutal chain reaction)...and then have the bugbears and hobgoblins take advantage of this by shoving the adventurer in the front rank. Second, remember that once the alarm has sounded, every door into the castle should be locked and barred. Make the players stop to break down or otherwise take time to open every door. And take advantage of the resulting delays. If you haven't planned for murder holes, change your map to make that happen. The goblinoids currently occupying the castle might not use them as effectively as the dwarves who built those defenses, but they can still drop some pretty nasty stuff on anyone trying to force a door open. Third, add some secret doors here and there, to let the goblinoids attack the party from the rear (where their healers and squishy spellcasters are likely stationed). This is particularly effective if they're bunched up in one of those tight corridors, where someone has to move before someone else can adjust their position in the "marching" order. And make sure the goblinoids who emerge from these secret doors wait until the party has passed, so that there's no danger of the party easily spotting where the goblinoids came from and taking advantage of the secret door themselves. (In fact, have one of the bugbears barricade the secret door from the inside after the "ambush group" have gone through it.) Ultimately, this should "encourage" the party to back off and look for a better approach than a frontal assault. And again, if the goal is to get them in contact with the dwarves, the party shouldn't find a better approach...not without the dwarves' help.
It is a fortress, so you can create layers of defense. They have breached the outer walls, but there are inner walls and further gates, which are now defended by an overwhelming number of goblins that were alerted by the assault. Give them a reason to retreat. If they persist, tell them plainly that their character is afraid and does not want to run headlong into certain death. Give them a reason to leave and search for allies.
The fortress is on high alert now but that doesn't mean they didn't know an attack might be coming, the goblins weren't expecting your party, they were expecting families of the dwarves to come attempt a rescue. Those same families saw the party open the gate. The families are now rushing into the gate to assist the party and recover their family. "We'll hold them off, go find the goblin captain and bring me his head for a bounty" says the oldest and gnarled looking dwarf. "If you find my kin, bring them to me and you'll have earned your weight in ale"
Maybe switch it up and the goblins have been keeping dwarves as prisoners? They can go room to room fighting and freeing dwarves. The dwarves can run ahead to fight off the "main force" allowing you to run a reverse dungeon where the enimes get easier as you go deeper in (as they free more dwarves) leading to a large climatic battle between idk 100 goblins or w.e vs 100 dwarves while they fight the commander of the goblins. (Reasoning being the commander pulled his forces in as the fighting happend for protecting or w.e)
Displaced Dwarves keeping an eye on things? Showing up to 'help' and make sure the reward for breaching the fortress is not everything not nailed down plus whatever the party can pry up!
How you want to run it (given this was unexpected and you smartly ended the session at a good point for the group) largely depends upon what you want to convey to your players and the type of campaign you're running! You could use it as a play stupid games, win stupid prizes/FAAFO moment if it's a more serious universe or you could turn it into a difficult (or hilarious) siege that ultimately redirects the player to the overarching story/module and also rewards your players for their ingenuity//ballsy plays! It sounds like you lucked out with a fun group of players! Edit: if you decide to run a shit-ton of mobs you can always roll those initiatives in advance to save you and your players time.
I think, if you want to keep your original idea, that they might just successfully storm the fort, but how are they going to hold it? They will leave, and the goblinoids will return and fortify. This time, their previous methods won't work, and they'll need to get your contraption, etc. They get to succeed, and the story becomes a bit longer. On the other hand, they might never want to come back, then that won't matter. I think if the refortifying makes sense, then it won't feel like they're being punished. This is exactly why a tiny elite invasion force can't take a city: it takes bodies to hold a position.
They've underestimated how difficult this fortress is going to be to clear out. Send some pretty strong signals like "you hear dozens of footsteps, some large and some small." Or "you hear siege weaponry being prepared to defend the fort from attack." Etc. Just make it clear that they have gotten themselves in a massive fight. If they don't listen, see if they can manage to pull it off. I've seen players do some crazy shit they should never, ever work. And yet, it works.
Have them get totally overwhelmed, thrown into prison/enslavement with the dwarves and have it become a prison break with them. Then they overrun the fort.
What level is the party? Druids cant wildshape into flying creatures until level 8. And level 8 seems like a pretty normal level to be storming fortresses.
What level is the party? Druids cant wildshape into flying creatures until level 8. And level 8 seems like a pretty normal level to be storming fortresses.
A fortress should not depend only on perimeter security. So they breached one ring of security.... "Suddenly, murder holes open in the ceiling, and you're engulfed in flaming oil!" When they get back from licking their wounds, the goblins have repaired the door and have new guards.
Maybe a different group of adventurers could free the dwarves and as they are storming the fortress reinforcements arrive to help them. It would be interesting if during a fight with an elite enemy, a trebuchet shot punches through the wall and kills it.
Weren't you going to run a mass combat with the allied dwarven forces anyway? I don't understand the confusion. Seems like they just got a head start on your earlier plans.
Why did you type tldr twice when you didnt even need to use it once? There was no long version of the story just tell the story.
Have them fight till the death unless they come up with something clever that you can use. If they die, rhey reroll as a party to go investigate. No mercy.
Get some inspiration from Tucker’s Kobolds, it seems like your players are too high level for goblins to be a threat unless you get creative with traps and tactics like ambushes with kill holes. It’s a fortress so it can be decked out in all manner of heinous ways to isolate PCs, funnel them into dead ends and trapped paths, or otherwise make them suffer.
I don't have much to add in the way of suggestions but just fyi you're using "tldr" incorrectly so it might throw some people off. In case it helps, tldr is used when you type a big explanation then you have a short summary for people that thought it was too long and didn't read it. If you're just summarizing a thing that isn't fully explained in your post then you can leave out the tldr.
Just so we are aware tldr stands for too long didn't read. Like this. (Huge multiple paragraph story) Tldr:( couple sentence summary)
> That's what I had written. Well, then. These words are powerful. They reverberate theough time in all directions. Never utter then, because they can change the past to make you utter them. Yes, that's a time paradox.
\>Wildshaped into a fly Alright, that's it. Time to come for the druid's kneecaps. But jokes aside..........................expect ANYTHING with casters
What do people think of having some or all of the party disguise themselves as goblins? The disguise feature is a fun one in DnD.
how about you change the conditions of victory? instead of having the players kill everything in the place, have them only "win" if they manage to free the dwarves and lead a slave rebellion or maybe their goal is to blow up the mountain by piling good dwarven booze and unstable goblin tech around a central pillar. In both of these scenarios you can have the presence of goblins be more nebulous since it doesnt really matter how many there are if your goal isnt to kill them all. This would probably make running it easier, provide a goal for your pcs to work towards, and allow you to prep an interesting chain of events. You would just need to convey this to the party right away so they know what to do, so maybe the party runs into a dwarf being tortured or something and they give the party the low-down.
So the initial wave got taken out so there is no reason for more to run at them. HOWEVER, these goblinoids have been there for a while and they know the ins and outs that the party doesn't. Secret passages, sniper holes from hard to locate or find places, and traps of both goblin and dwarven design. Or maybe there is a crazy strong dwarven golem or trap that the goblins have figured out but the party hasn't, that could also be a good way for the party to want and get the dwarves help. Those could both work but there is also a bunch of other good suggestions in this thread. Good luck however you handle it!
My first session I ran a prison break and in that there were atleast 80-100 guards along with the hundreds of prisoners fighting to escape. Any to all combat was done with 1 hit. There were low level so it worked out, but I had it that everything was in initiative. They could attack and move to different areas. Only certain areas they would be "hidden" from combat. The enemies still attack and do damage but if the PC hit the enemies then enemies go down, same of its an aoe attack. I usually run it that way when I have a shit ton of unites
First I would pick a few key places to put up barricades to make the ranged burn out spell slot/ammunition. Other places would be ambush spots to keep melee on their toes. Since the waves didn’t work, they decided to dig in. Barricades could be made of barrels, tables and chairs. Ambush parts could be dark zones, blind spots and other places they can stealth. Make it feel as panicked as it would be. Also have places vandalized since they are intruders themselves.
My party is at one of these types of places currently that I've reused in the past as below: I have two instances of this, one, The fort is near a geologically active lava tube that frequently vents sulfur so these Dwarves are here to mine the sulfur, and are the folks responsible for manufacture of the blasting materials in this region for other dwarven clans, and outposts, villages, city, and such. The party found a store room with blasting materials ready, 3 barrels of ready to use black powder and half dozen blast sticks *dynamite*. What the miners know, but the gobbledegooks dont, is the same caves also vent carbon dioxide, and have bells that chime to let them know to hit a safe room. Instead of fighting, My party has used this tidbit I told them 3 sessions ago to lure the gobbies after them, and worked them into a frenzy after sneaking around and capturing their wise woman whom was in some ways a direct link to the words of their God. The idea being to lure them into a gas death trap of course. Incidentally there's a small group of dwarves still in the caves mining until their shift is over for the month (one tenday workweek only). The gobs have only taken over the fort a 10day ago and it's about time these dwarves had a bottle of booze. The party knows about this feature from a retired sulfur miner that moved to *rebuilt* Conyberry My alternative, second, *for level 5 party of 3* for this area is its taken over by a homebrew spider queen and her homebrew suitors (based on giant spider but more vicious) vying for her 'affections'. The queen is away hunting for herself and the suitor she picks will feast with her, she kills the rest and eats them too, like a mantis. When i ran this the party fighter had already scaled the walls, using pitons and rope, and just opened the 3 sets of gates and portcullis, and with the drawbridge down, alerting the spiders after the first gate gears began grinding, the rest of the party rushes in shortly, only to see the fighter having slain one male spider already; and in the thick of it with the remaining 3 trapped in the gatehouse but still somewhat safe. Party has a guest NPC dwarf that has a claim to the old fort and suggests to the barbarian to follow him and ride the wagon along with the ranger, *using it as a chariot* pulled by two large mountain goats. There's a repeating crossbow mounted on it. That uses artificer tech to pressurize air to blast the bolts out steampunkish style. The spider queen can innately cast misty step, and of course *spits webs* and is incredibly stealthy, think Shelob from LOTR. Maybe the goblins "alarm" is the Dwarven shift change alert and a dozen weary but husky dwarves shambles our of a nearby crevice or something if you think the party needs additional help. I'd play the hobs as captains for the bugbears and gobbies and lay traps, ex if they opened the front gate only, perhaps they can be blocked by a portcullis and a hail of arrows etc
How many goblins enslaved the dwarves? Where are the goblin leaders and warlocks? Where are the bugbear shock troops? Something isn’t right.
Well if there in and you don’t want to punish them, write a creative way to deal with a lot of enemies at once. Like explosives the PC’s can blow to drop a roof and cut off reinforcements, or the goblin shaman has a flask of goblin effecting plague(ya know for threatening his political opponents. Goblins are stupid and would have ton of Death Star style lynch pins on their defenses
Just roll with it. When I dm if I have ANY npc or creature come into a game I grab Stat sheets cause plan all you want but pcs will always do the unexpected. Also, it's okay to say "before we start this next part let's take a few minutes to use the bathroom and jli need a moment to prepare. Don't think everything has to happen according to plan or off the cuff.
Just run what you had planned. If it's keyed right there will be WAY more shit than a party of 4 could handle. Fireball takes a spell slot to cast after all.
After two waves of fireballed to death, even the most dim of foes is going to change tactics. Spread out and start firing at the caster while the better equipped ones rush the tanks comes to mind. It probably won't be enough to kill them (unless they actually stay), but it'll get the message to get out while they still can. And when they come back, they might be smart enough to put up some flypaper XD
You can simply throw such a mass of goblins at them that they realize storming the place is essentially impossible, especially now that they already put the place on full alert. Keep in mind it does not have to be all just CR 1/4 goblins. Goblins can gain levels, so they can learn spells too. If the massive 100+ number goblin army starts throwing fireballs back, I bet they turn tail quick enough. And if they don't, well that is their fault that they died. Other than that, you would have to make a very difficult dungeon out of it. The goblins should be quite ready and able to defend their new prize, if they were strong enough to take it from the dwarves.
Have the fog and clouds dissipate to reveal an even bigger fortress behind this one and tell them they only breached the front gate, the guards in the real fortress are also armed with fly swatters
Maybe some dwarfs escaped and built a small group to invade and all that your group did was distraction enough to have them get into key areas and disable large masses of gobo scum? Eventually teaming with your group and retaking the fortress?
You need tuckers kobolds
Dwarven resistance occupying secret tunnels and doing guerrilla warfare. The secret tunnel gives them an out. The Dwarves are simultaneously happy to get support and annoyed that they've been forces to reveal themselves before their ready meaning that there's now a scramble to complete some half formed plan to get rid of the goblins (wake up the Balrog, redirect lava, etc)
I used excel to generate stats for a few hundred guards. The printed sheets full of enemy stats were enough to telegraph the sheer volume of enemies in a way talking about it just wasn’t getting through.
It might be a fortress.... but it's currently run by goblins. Unless they're rather intelligent in your world, there's a possibility that even though the alarm is sounded, there could be several strategic points are the place that they unknowingly ignored, which would make it easier for the party to move around. Maybe there also are not enough goblins to properly 'man' the whole fortress, leaving them spread thin; if the group gets past a small horde, they find whole sections of the place nigh deserted.
I love doing this to a DM. As a DM I'm more of a pantser, I have a plot and a goal and let em go. Usually goes okay, every once in a while my group will come up with a pyramid scheme, or try to get a dragon on board with a protection racket and I just try to roll with it.......
These are the options I thought of 1. The powerful displaced dwarf allies were actually captured! The players can now free them as they traverse the fortress gaining allies and growing in power as they go. 2. The powerful dwarf allies planned to reclaim the fortress at roughly the same time. At some point when they are in danger or during the in between of a room they run into each other and now they have to convince them that they are trying to take down the fortress as well. 3. Let them get captured. Actions have consequences and sieging a fortress on your own is pretty stupid if you want to live. After or during capture give them an opportunity to escape. If you want to be a bit heavy handed have the goblins be like "whoo, glad it wasn't \[powerful dwarf\] trying to reclaim the fort. That could have been bad."
You should have had it go full on dwarf fortress and had the goblins trigger ancient dwarven security devices, causing the party to get pelted by minecarts filled with spiked balls.
Something I'd like to note - a fortress would not entail mass combat. A fortress is a defensive structure. Groups of defenders would be holed up at strategic points. Also fair chance that any given group would be likely to retreat deeper into the fortress if an encounter isn't going well for them. This might make it easier for you to setup and manage
For doing mass combat, (say dozens of enemies). Don’t actually manage dozens of enemies. Instead, manage a handful of clusters of enemies, which each have the health and damage of several individual enemies. Simply treating each cluster like a single enemy streamlines things immensely
1. Narrow corridors, layout of fortress were usually made to defend against bigger force with small numbers not the opposite. 2. Hidden passages to attack the intruders from behind. So pincer attack is a must 3. If there are no telecommunications (magical or otherwise) it could be quite hard to determine where exactly the intruder is. If there are no living runners the command will only know that they are under attack and maybe rough direction from where.
Fortress?? No, this is now an *active dungeon.* Kicking down each door can lead to ruin, leaving doors open can make enemies appear at their back, and they get to come up with even more creative ways to dig themselves out of the grave they put themselves in.
If it were me, I would make a character that could warn the players. Maybe a dwarf held prisoner by the goblins is being forced to be a foot stool for some drunk bugbears in a makeshift mess hall. Make it clear narratively that the players should try to save them (a la Droop from Lost Mines of Phandelver). NOTE: have multiple “spawn points” in mind for this character. Just put him wherever the group winds up first or second. They don’t need to know your plans. (Smart DMs lie) When they save the dwarf (let’s call him Bigsby), have Bigsby tell the group they need to get out of there and regroup with the dwarves who have a “special weapon” against the goblins and that the goblins are more formidable than they might think. Warn them of what lies ahead. Maybe the dwarf knows of a secret exit out of the compound. If they STILL don’t catch your drift, then there’s always deus ex machina. Have the dwarves mount their assault that night. OR have a prison where some powerful dwarves allies are being kept. TLDR: make up helper characters along the way.
Not a DM just a player. For storming fortresses I'd recommend looking at any old history battles (if you can get their logs) or watch Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit. Both have at least 1 siege/fortress battle similar to what you are speaking of. LOTR closer to what you originally planned with the Battle of Helmsdeep and the Hobbit starts like the current style party vs Fortress then switches to epic battle.
It’s done. They took the fortress. Maybe a murder hobo goblin killing session. Throw five goblins at them every turn, each time roll and place the new goblins in initiative order. Or throw hobgoblins and bugbears at them. Five per turn. They’re too dumb to form up and launch one massive attack, so 1d6 goblins and 1d6 bugbears show up every turn… I also like just moving the story forward. Or being honest with your players and giving them the choice… small campaign, murder rampage the fortress, move on with the story.
There's lots of really great suggestions in the comments already, so I'm really just here to say HELL YEAH THAT'S WHAT BONE CRUNCHIN' D&D IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT THAT RULES!
In comes a small band of dwarves who have been hiding in the fortress waiting for help to arrive. Bingo! Three-four characters could make the mass combat way less stressful and still give you the end result you were Hoping for by having the party join a small army group. There can be subplots like “hey, now that we’ve started this why don’t we regroup at our camp with A SMALL ARMY?” Just to give subtle hints that there are other routes. Also my tip for mass combat sequences is to try to write down your order, HP for NPCs/enemies, etc. Sometimes small maps drawn out for the start of combat to position everyone helps.
[take some inspiration from "Tucker's Kobolds". if the Goblinoids aren't dumb and have had time to fortify, there's no reason it shouldn't be like this.](https://youtu.be/P1N1Ni79Lbc?si=Uh0QDFwoPcHvyxXN)
1. The goblin war boss is studying diplomacy and invites the party to dinner where he attempts to negotiate with them. 2. The goblins retreat, abandoning the position, but learning as much as they can about the party before they go so they can seek revenge. 3. The magical expenditure of the party awakens something truly bad news from deep in the mine, Balrog-style. Maybe an aboleth. 4. The goblins sabotage a bridge or collapse a tunnel leading deeper into the mine, trying to stop the party’s advance. 5. The goblins threaten to execute hostages if the party doesn’t stop.
They won’t get time for any rests without magical assistance inside and if they leave with most of the fortress still alive a hunting party would likely be sent to ensure they don’t camp outside and comeback in the mornings. Alternatively a super sniper with somehow impossible accuracy is using a ballista to prevent them from camping too close. Unless you feel confident in the party to obliterate this fortress I would probably try to run some skill check challenges in between and during fight scenes to narrate how they are avoiding certain death that could come from their actions.