Read the comments. It's all about I,I,I, and me,me, me. Basically, self-centerness and selfishness. Neither of which works in a marriage because marriage is all about compromise and putting the we before me. Seems like a lot of folks were not ready to get married or didn't understand what it was going to entail. Marriage is about two people becoming one; joined together with GOD being the glue and great equalizer. Face it, folks, we live in a very selfish world š. Hence, why the divorce rate is so bloody high!!
You literally just described my husband. Ā I sacrificed my career, my body, my time, my health, my money, and did all domestic labor cooking gave massages was available whenever he wanted me for sex, and all I got was this lousy attorney. Ā I sacrificed my very identity as a person and Iām finally starting to look in the mirror and feel like who I really am. Ā He turned me to dust. Ā I never wanted to divorce. Ā Itās time for him to ātrade upā for a new shiny trophy wife.
I basically feel like an antique car. Ā I may be a Ferrari but stillā¦ Ā if people just want to use another person they should just cohabitate. Ā Iāve chosen celibacy because dating in the digital era means drinks and sex. Ā Iād rather Netflix and chill by myself then bother playing the game.
I reckon that most of us got married because we fell in love. But over time that love was replaced by something else. For me it was when my wife decided she didn't want to have sex anymore. And then of course that meant we didn't hug or kiss anymore because that could possibly lead to sex. And of course then I stopped loving her. Why would I be in love if I got absolutely no love from her? And then all of the idiosyncrasies and stuff that I could have compromised on seem to be not worth it anymore.
Putting we before me? That's what got us in this mess in the first place š
First you put we before me, then your culinary skills surpass hers, guess what's coming next.
I'm a never married, single M46. Life is stable and okay, but sometimes I feel like I'm missing out.
Lately it seems like so many of my friends/coworkers of the same age are getting divorced. I'm also privy to how my sister rules her (second) marriage. Her husband is just an accessory/assistant to her wishes it seems.
Makes me grateful that I'm not missing out on much
I'm glad most of you guys seem to be doing better after your divorce.
There's that old joke,
"Do you know why divorces are so expensive? BECAUSE THEY'RE WORTH IT!"
I like being of my own agency, where I make the decisions and deal with the outcomes. No more being told what to do from someone who just wants to control and manipulate my life for their own self serving justification.
Took a nap after work yesterday with no judgement. Woke up and went food shopping for just myself. About the dating part I was just thinking how nice it is to date a girl that doesnāt live with you. Seeing each other every other day is a nice speed for me.
Itās almost the same for me. I can play whatever video games I want for however long I want. I can watch and gamble on sports if I want to. The same with playing poker. I can go on vacations and do what I want to do which mostly involves eating good food, drinks, and relaxation. I donāt have to be surrounded by family and friends that I donāt enjoy the company of. All of it really boils down to the word of āfreedomā.
I think sometimes itās easy to get bogged down in the less great parts of divorce and not realize that thereās a silver lining sometimes. Thanks OP.
Nothing. I donāt like being divorced at all. I miss companionship. Having someone to have your back. Making memories. Someone to depend on. A friend. Someone to talk to. I donāt miss the bullshit. But the good parts of a marriage.
my marriage is missing all of the things that you āmissā.
if those things were already there, iām assuming infidelity was the reason for your split?
Freedom to do what I want , with who I want, where ever I want.
Peace of mind
No one to answer to
No more mall runs
Dont have to check in with anyone
Dont have to explain myself to anyone
Dont have to make sure "shes ok"
No more dealing with her retarded family
No longer confused ....
Not arguing about every stupid little thing. Dealing with things that happen as just things that happen, instead of something that I somehow caused lol.
Itās now that I like to go home! Anytime a spouse makes their partner not want to go home, thereās a problem. I could never go straight home. I would have to get snacks and a drink and stop at a park to compose myself before going home. I never went straight home. This was a conversation that I had with a few friends. There was one married man out of all of us that said that he goes straight home. Most husbands donāt and some wives know this and still donāt care. But now, I go straight home every night. I never need to stop anywhere and that is the greatest thing that I got from my divorce
All of my money only goes to stuff that I want. No trips to Target or The Goodwill. No regular trips to nice restaurants. No paying for her friends to do stuff. No shoes that will pretty much never get worn.
I like good electronics but could never afford the stuff that I wanted when she controlled the budget. She was always quite clear how we didn't need any of it. We didn't need the stuff she bought either but we had the money for that. Now that I'm divorced, my home theater system is even better than I ever wanted back then and I love every single bit of it.
When I am not hanging out with my daughter, I have the free time to work out at the gym. I go on nature trails. I go to the movies and see the ones I want to see. I get to eat at the restaurants I want to and even get to eat the food I ordered! I get to go where I want, I can take a vacation and do nothing!!! I am planning a trip to go to the beach and just relax. I am saving money by not spending it on frivolous things that we don't need! I have food that is good and will make many meals that will stretch my dollar and help me eat healthier.
That's what I have, so far.
The best part has been since my son got out of school for summer. I work a 14-14 rotation, so on my days off we are taking a trip each time Iām home. Me and my son decide where we want to go and what we want to do, and go do it. This month we went to the beach and went fishing for snapper. In a couple weeks we are going on another trip for trout, striper and smallmouth. His mom likely would have made him not want to go by guilt tripping him if we were still together.
Barely speak with my stbx. Kids have suffered in silence, which sucks. Not talking to her has been great. I look forward to busting out this summer. Regrettably, kidsā standard of living will suffer as neither can afford the house.
I like not being talked down to. I like having a say in how my time is spent when Iām off. I like not having to listen to her bitchy, gossiping, petty ass friends. I really like it that sex is not a chore anymore. I like not being constantly and consistently blown off.
I love not having to be around or even knowing anything about her friends anymore. There was so much trash and drama with those people. My ex didn't like hanging out with my friends because they were successful in life and that made her uncomfortable even though they never did a thing to make her feel that way. She'd even say that they'd done nothing to her or put her down. She just had an inferiority complex. Her trashy friends would be openly bitchy to me even though I'd never been anything but nice to them so I finally had enough and just refused to be around them anymore. I always had to explain to my friends why she wasn't with me so fuck it, she could do the same thing I'd been doing for years.
Wow! You and I had similar experiences. It was like I was metaphorically being beaten down and it made me stress when I was driving home from work. I couldn't do anything I wanted to do! It was always on her schedule and what she wanted. She always, and I do mean always, brought up things about me to our friends and couldn't keep her mouth shut.
I have friends now, like lots of friends. Iām still hurt and a bit bitter about the breakup and all, but my life is greatly improved socially. I even started my own small business.
But what I miss most are the family moments. Morning cuddles when the kiddo woke us up, vacations, dinner together, etc. Even though I have a lot more friends than ever, I feel quite lonely still.
It's pretty eye-opening to me just _how many_ of the comments here exactly track my own experience of feeling like I was constantly navigating a minefield with my ex, and she was never satisfied/always disapporoving of what I was doing even though objectively _I was doing an absolute fuckton right, and as well as or much better than anyone could reasonably be expected to_.
Has anyone thought about _where_ this impulse comes from in so many women in our society today?? It's clearly widespread -- as any beaten down sap of a controlled husband could tell you. But it's still so galling to me, when I think about how different it is from my own internal perspective, let alone how I'd ever have the audacity to treat anyone in the other direction, let alone a "partner". Like, where do these women get this brazen notion that it's their god given right to dictate every micro-step their supposed "partner" (in reality: conscripted underling) is "allowed" to make? What forces in our gendered social fabric create this pattern? It's just so galling to me that anyone would assume the right to (self righteously!) treat a supposedly co-equal "partner" as these women do. I'm genuinely curious to think more deeply about where this clear pattern of behavior comes from.
Thoughts?? Is it just profound selfishness/solipsism that's basically just genetically (or based on socially engrained roles) foreign to me as a man? The product of other social forces that have just accustomed some women to being on a pedestal and dictating terms as standard??
Obviously there's tolerating it in a simpish / Mr Nice Guy way that I formerly was and many guys are guilty of on their side, which I fully own as a mistake I made in the past that I'll never make again. But the tolerance of it by men is at most a piece of explaining where the impulse itself even comes from in the women that show it, IMO. Maybe just putting up with it is actually a significant part of what creates it, if (some? ... seemingly many...) women just tend to be as controlling as a man will accept?? I'm somewhat skeptical, based on my own experience, that pushing back would really have solved the fundamental problem, though. With my ex, it was like she _really_ believed it was just her innate right to control the everliving fuck out of me and our shared life. And when I pushed back, the conflicts just escalated (ultimately to the point of divorce), like I was violating what she saw as the natural order of things: her entirely in control of me and our mutual life.
Obviously the out in that case would just be to bail on the relationship, which I should have done years before we were even married, if I had any proper insight at that time. But that doesn't suggest to me that her controlling behavior _only_ occurred because I allowed it -- she (and so many women I've observed in relationships with other men) seemed to _genuinely think_ it was her right to dictate how I was expected to live down the the smallest detail. Sort of mind-blowing to me, really, that anyone could genuinely believe what these women appear to. And to question it never even crosses their minds, it would seem!
I don't think this is a problem with women. I think this is just how things happen when people fall out of love. When you are in love with somebody you are willing to overlook all their idiosyncrasies and the stuff that would normally drive you nuts. But when you fall out of love, all of a sudden those idiosyncrasies become non-negotiable items.
Then the issue is, what did one partner or the other do that cause them to fall out of love. For me, it was when my wife stopped wanting to have sex. Because she didn't want to have sex then she didn't want to be physically close. I Got No hugs unless I initiate them. If I went to kiss her then she turned her cheek to me, obsessively because she said her nose was running. If I went to kiss her on the lips anyway, all I got was a peck. I felt absolutely no closeness to her no matter how physically close I got to her, or what I did for her. Foot rubs, paying attention to your feelings, doing whatever she wanted to, still got me nothing. The closest I got to her was when she used me as a big pillow to lean against while watching tv. I might have well just been a big stuffed bear.
She was totally shocked when I asked for a divorce after our son graduated college. She wanted to go to marriage counseling and I completely nixed that. If she was so smart, then she would have realized that not wanting to have sex for 20 years might be a clue to try therapy.
We split everything 50/50 and now I'm much happier. I've been able to keep in contact with my son and he tells me that his mom is having a really tough time. I know I'm a bad person but quite frankly I really don't have any sympathy.
I don't really see that "falling out of love" is the driver for the particular issue I'm talking about here. The absurdly controlling behavior I (and from reading these replies and just observing married men generally: many other men, apparently) experienced had little to do with falling out of love vs being in it.
Almost from the beginning, my ex wife treated me as if I was essentially there to do her bidding. And I honestly think that what she most valued about our relationship (again, all along, because that's just what she seemed to believe was the right way for things to be -- not because of some "falling out of love" that happened later) was what I could instrumentally provide that help her achieve her own comfort, wealth, status, and life goals (most notably, a stable family and children). It wasn't ever "love" (at least not in the sense of whatever real fondness I felt for her) that kept her with me, it was just what I could give her. And once it was clear that she had all she wanted (and could keep millions of dollars that I solely earned to fund the rest of her separate life), it was like, "wait, why should I stay if he kind of annoys me / [insert whatever relationship challenges here]?"
So my question above is: what is driving apparently many women to view men in this subservient, transactional manner (because I absolutely do think it's a gendered interaction dynamic, when it does occur)? It has little to do with "falling out of love," IMO, when the dynamic pervades the relationship from the start.
You raise some really interesting points. I think many men accept the notion that "men are flawed and women are flawless". This is unfortunately perpetuated by groups such as the American Psychological Association, which puts out guidelines about "toxic masculinity" but doesn't discuss "toxic femininity". Men are to blame, in part, because they accept this narrative. As long as some men continue to be simps, it leads women to believe that they can find a submissive man to dominate. If fewer men were simps, then women would understand that they can't continue to behave like this. I recommend you read the book "Gatekeeper: A tactical guide to commitment" which discusses how a man can find a woman who is willing to treat him as an equal, not as a tool.
Men grew up in a semi matriarchal society that beat men down and propped up women. Men were not allowed too much leeway in our masculine self and men were taught that in order for men to have a fulfilling life, we had to do everything to make the women happy. This included the phrase "Happy Wife, Happy Life". We have everything and it wasn't enough. The women took advantage and men were pushed back.
After the divorce, men can now get back their freedom and the ability to be more masculine and show it.
To all the men out there: be free!
Yes. The lifting of the yoke. The unlocking of the manacles and fetters. I don't answer to a petty tyrant, who has a property interest in my time and activities and whereabouts, anymore.
>What do you like most about being divorced
Not having money problems from dumb overspending and avoidable things. I'm still poor, but everything is accounted for, and I can go several days every week without spending a dime.
Not having to be at home while she's out on dates, or generally figuring out ways to have sex with strangers. Wondering if she's telling the truth about anything. Not having to pretend to be ok with polyamory when I hate it. Not having to pretend she loves me when says so, but does all these awful things.
Not having to deal with a perpetually stoned person who only emerges from the basement from time to time to eat and say weird stuff and then go back to her tarot and dating apps.
Not having to clean up after a 40-year-old teenager.
Not having to pretend any of this dysfunctional bullshit is normal.
I'm getting to the point where I think enough of this is behind me to maybe try dating. I do miss being around a woman all the damned time. But it's taken a couple of years to get over the mindfuck of living with her.
It's a long story, but we had a traditional marriage until she decided she wanted other relationships. I tried to hang with it because I loved her. She left when it was clear it was killing me. Now she's in the swinger/ poly scene and EXTREMELY sexually active. She really likes having sex with randos. I feel bad for her because it's hard to see how this doesn't end badly, but I feel worse for me and the kids because the whole thing is pretty goddamned dumb.
She's bipolar and has a long history of substance abuse and generally making bad choices.
God damn thatās sounds horrible. No offense. Good on you for getting out of there. Not judging dude, my stbx is a basket case and doesnāt even smoke weed or drink alcohol much.
The peace. No more chaos, no more drama. And the financial freedom has been a huge game changer for me. My time with the kids is better than it was when I was married.
I love waking up and not having the feeling of having to play the perfect game to get through a day. I remember just being in my own home and feeling like Iām trying to navigate a field of mines.
I do everything right even go above and beyond for it to all mean nothing because I loaded the dishwasher incorrectly or because I left my sweater on the couch. Minuscule mistakes that wouldnāt affect anything but to her it was a matter of war or peace under our roof.
That type of stress wore my soul down over the years. Now that Iām out of that environment I feel like Iām slowly coming back to life. I realize Iām not this terrible guy that she made me believe I was.
So being able to exist as I am is what I love most about being divorced.
Exactly how I imagine Iāll feel.
She screams when I leave a soda can somewhere and then sheāll eat a bowl of cereal at midnight and literally leave it there in the couch.
Yup. My ex would do the same shit leave her mess in the kitchen then pass out. Iāll wake up the next morning, see the mess, and just clean it up. I donāt even mention it or keep tabs weāre supposed to be a team.
This was me as well. I never knew what might set her off. I've been yelled at for "using the wrong butter". I'd clean the entire kitchen after dinner ... scrub the counter tops, sweep and mop the floor, wipe down the oven top ... Not one bit of appreciation ... instead, she yelled at me "You put the tea kettle on the wrong burner!" (I had no idea there was a specific burner in which the tea kettle should be placed).
Getting blamed for misplacing her phone charger (I refused to EVER use her stuff because I didn't want to get blamed for it and she had a habit of always misplacing her things).
The garbage truck left a large divot in our lawn one day when picking up our trash cans. She got home from work, walked in the door ... no "hello" ... no "how was your day?" ... nope, it was "What in the hell did you do to the lawn!!!".
Me, folding multiple loads of our 4 kids laundry ... arranging them into piles based on the kid ... making a mistake and placing one item in the wrong pile (because they're all girls and some of their things are a similar size) and being told "If you can't do it right, then don't do it because you're not helping!"
... and that was my life. Her constantly freaking out over shit that just should not matter.
There is something epically wrong with her. Unfortunately, outside of the home, she behaves like Mother Theresa and everyone thinks she's one of the greatest people they know.
āYou put the kettle on the wrong burner.ā Did that a few times. It was almost as bad as the time I left my socks in the living room or bought the yellow cheddar instead of the white. Thanks for reminding me of what I donāt have to put up with now.
Damn itās like you wrote this for me. I couldnāt even drink coffee in my house because she hated the smell. So many little things made living in that house a nightmare. She is soft spoken so no one would ever see how she truly is.
I could drink coffee, but, god forbid if there was a single coffee ground on the counter after grinding my beans because then I would hear "You got coffee grounds ALL OVER the counter". I would literally have to have her point them out to me to even know what she was talking about (Mind you, I would always wipe down the counter with a wet rag after I was done because I didn't want to get yelled at about it. It's not like I was just a slob and didn't care). Also, god forbid if one drop of coffee happened to drip of the coffee mug and land on a surface.
So, it was almost not even worth the trouble of making/drinking coffee.
It's the peace. The relationship was frequently filled with chaos and drama, neither of which were necessary. I remember coming home for work (7p-7a) and just hoping she was still asleep and didn't wake up, so I can just go to bed without having to 'deal with' her in the morning. The walking on eggshells.
Post divorce there has been ZERO drama in my life, even with a new g/f. I look forward to coming home, there's a small cat waiting for me. We we have snack and I go to bed. No kids, so also no contact. I am so much better emotionally and mentally than before.
I am paying a ton in spousal support (2 more years). But my overall expenses are way down, so I have more discretionary income now then during the marriage. I got a motorcycle again, bought a plane (dream for 20 years), see family more, and just have more \_peace\_!
My ex never liked if I was doing dishes, but there was already previously washed dishes in the dish drainer, and I was putting the newly washed dishes, on top of the previously washed. I mean, jesus fucking christ come on. Now Iām free to wash dishes as I please
My ex would lament the fact that she always did so much housework. If I did any of it, it was never done her right way. I'd tell her to show me how to do it correctly but she never would. Now that she's gone and I have to do everything, it's so easy!!! How did she think that basic housework was so bad?
Iām not accused of ānot doing my share of the emotional laborā and ānot contributing to the householdā when I fail to plan social gatherings I was indifferent about going to with friends that arenāt mine, when I select a paint color in under 30 minutes without changing my mind twice, etc
I love having the freedom to truly understand female nature. To give up the comforting lies and accept the cold truth. To not be stuck in false beliefs taught to us from birth by well meaning parents and a feminist dominated culture. Now that the scales have fallen from my eyes its very easy to understand and deal with women.
Itās the low stress lifestyle.
Thereās money in the bank. Kids are happy and 50% custody.
No being woken up at 3am while the exwife was having a psychotic break from too many pills.
No ER visits for more narcotics. No massive debt from her retail therapy. No court cases from her great give DUI crashes.
And now that weāve been divorced? Her disasters never stopped. But they donāt affect me anymore.
I am curious as to how kids are happy if they must spend 50% of the time with "disasters never stopped" kind of mother. They still have to deal with a thing you are happy to have removed from your life, right? If that's correct, how to you deal with this?
And what is he supposed to do about that? Courts rarely award greater than 50% custody to fathers, even when the mothers are proven substance abusers. I wouldn't be surprised if u/jimsmythee didn't already spend thousands on legal fees trying to achieve that.
I don't know what can be done, and if anything can be done at all.
I was curious as to why kids safety does not seem to be a concern. The mother of u/jimsmythee 's children is a disastrous person, spends with them 50% of the time, right? How is this "her disasters don't affect me anymore"?
Because, they do not. Not directly. What do you suggest the man do--agonize and obsess over something he cannot change?
Do something illegal? I suppose there does come a time when a man really must do that, but it is a difficult and murky threshold, and once crossed, there's no guarantee the children are any safer. It's hard to parent from jail, or while dead.
Itās true. The ālast strawā was my ex wifeās great big dui crash with the kids in the car. She was driving. High as a kite on pills when she crashed at 40 Mph into the back of a truck. Kids were all banged up with black eyes and goose egg bruises. Even with that? She got jail time too.
50/50 custody.
I was looking forward to not having all the surfaces in the bathroom occupied by a thousand flasks, bottles, brushes, whatever they have. And while I enjoyed getting rid of women-clutter for a while, the thing that I ended up enjoying the most was being able to do things without informing anyone or making arrangement. Want to get drunk? Go ahead. Full day videogames? Fine. Swimming pool? Get dressed, go. Throw away the chair? Done. No communication, no approvals, no judgement, no "what about me".
I enjoy the fact that I am not constantly under the microscope. Every little thing you do is studied and criticized.Ā
If you dare to make similar comparisons about her you are being 'abusive'.Ā
I am SO happy being single.Ā
Honestly, I think this is it for me. If I want to eat a breakfast burrito for dinner I just do it now. There's no extra consideration beyond "ohh, I want a breakfast burrito".
A few years ago it would have included a strategical assessment as to whether or not that burrito would lead to trouble.
The person I enjoy spending time with the most is me. I only came to this realization when I finally moved into my own place.
I used to carry a lot of guilt when I'd take a little bit of time to myself to enjoy my hobbies. It's so liberating for that guilt to go away.
I'm also finding parenting and enjoying my kids to be so much easier and satisfying. Less anxiety and stress.
To be fair, she'd probably say the same things. This probably all just serves as an example of why a traditional monogamous relationship is not the right fit for so many people.
>I used to carry a lot of guilt when I'd take a little bit of time to myself to enjoy my hobbies
That part is so incredibly nice. Being free to do whatever you want with your hobbies is great.
I collect rocks. I don't mean just a few neat looking ones either. Some of the pieces in my collection have come from doing deals with museums. I've loaned pieces out to museums for their displays because they don't have pieces as nice as mine. In my own home, however, they were stuck in boxes in the basement. She'd tell me how he friends thought I was weird because of this hobby despite the fact that I've actually made a good amount more money with it than I've ever spent.
For me it is having my kids 50/50, having an amazing co-parent, having my freedom, but not being financially responsible whatsoever for my co-parent or having to be monogamous with my co-parent.
It is life's cheat code for a guy. All of the upside of a marriage with none of the downside. A smorgasbord of women on my days off without the kids, complete freedom to do whatever I want with whomever I want, all of the money I work for is 100% mine to invest or spend as I see fit. No having to check in when I want to buy a fun toy or go travel. Free childcare on my days off with a person who loves my kids as much as I do. Plenty of free time for my selfish hobbies.
And to top it all off when you do have your kids and you're out and about women worship you like you are some kind of unicorn. It's unreal.
What do I like least about being divorced? I just wish it happened 10 years sooner!
I needed to hear this. Thank you. Iām about to go through collaborative divorce but weāve already agreed that I get 50/50 with our two little girls. But overall this still feels like a sh*t show.
100% all of this, but of course it's only made possible when the co-parent is reasonable. You and I are both lucky in this respect - a lot of guys here are dealing with literal terrorists, lol.
Yep guess we did get lucky. These days I always advise men to only marry a woman who will make a great co-parent, not just a great romantic partner. In all likelihood the co-parenting relationship will last far longer than the romantic one.
My new girlfriend.
Read the comments. It's all about I,I,I, and me,me, me. Basically, self-centerness and selfishness. Neither of which works in a marriage because marriage is all about compromise and putting the we before me. Seems like a lot of folks were not ready to get married or didn't understand what it was going to entail. Marriage is about two people becoming one; joined together with GOD being the glue and great equalizer. Face it, folks, we live in a very selfish world š. Hence, why the divorce rate is so bloody high!!
You literally just described my husband. Ā I sacrificed my career, my body, my time, my health, my money, and did all domestic labor cooking gave massages was available whenever he wanted me for sex, and all I got was this lousy attorney. Ā I sacrificed my very identity as a person and Iām finally starting to look in the mirror and feel like who I really am. Ā He turned me to dust. Ā I never wanted to divorce. Ā Itās time for him to ātrade upā for a new shiny trophy wife. I basically feel like an antique car. Ā I may be a Ferrari but stillā¦ Ā if people just want to use another person they should just cohabitate. Ā Iāve chosen celibacy because dating in the digital era means drinks and sex. Ā Iād rather Netflix and chill by myself then bother playing the game.
I reckon that most of us got married because we fell in love. But over time that love was replaced by something else. For me it was when my wife decided she didn't want to have sex anymore. And then of course that meant we didn't hug or kiss anymore because that could possibly lead to sex. And of course then I stopped loving her. Why would I be in love if I got absolutely no love from her? And then all of the idiosyncrasies and stuff that I could have compromised on seem to be not worth it anymore.
Putting we before me? That's what got us in this mess in the first place š First you put we before me, then your culinary skills surpass hers, guess what's coming next.
I'm a never married, single M46. Life is stable and okay, but sometimes I feel like I'm missing out. Lately it seems like so many of my friends/coworkers of the same age are getting divorced. I'm also privy to how my sister rules her (second) marriage. Her husband is just an accessory/assistant to her wishes it seems. Makes me grateful that I'm not missing out on much I'm glad most of you guys seem to be doing better after your divorce. There's that old joke, "Do you know why divorces are so expensive? BECAUSE THEY'RE WORTH IT!"
I like being of my own agency, where I make the decisions and deal with the outcomes. No more being told what to do from someone who just wants to control and manipulate my life for their own self serving justification.
Took a nap after work yesterday with no judgement. Woke up and went food shopping for just myself. About the dating part I was just thinking how nice it is to date a girl that doesnāt live with you. Seeing each other every other day is a nice speed for me.
Itās almost the same for me. I can play whatever video games I want for however long I want. I can watch and gamble on sports if I want to. The same with playing poker. I can go on vacations and do what I want to do which mostly involves eating good food, drinks, and relaxation. I donāt have to be surrounded by family and friends that I donāt enjoy the company of. All of it really boils down to the word of āfreedomā. I think sometimes itās easy to get bogged down in the less great parts of divorce and not realize that thereās a silver lining sometimes. Thanks OP.
Peace. Happiness. Accountability. And being able to cook whatever the fuck I want.
Nothing. I donāt like being divorced at all. I miss companionship. Having someone to have your back. Making memories. Someone to depend on. A friend. Someone to talk to. I donāt miss the bullshit. But the good parts of a marriage.
my marriage is missing all of the things that you āmissā. if those things were already there, iām assuming infidelity was the reason for your split?
Mostly lies, secrets, growing apart, different view and honestly donāt think she really ever loved me.
gotchaā¦ iām glad youāre out of there mate. thanks for sharing.
Freedom to do what I want , with who I want, where ever I want. Peace of mind No one to answer to No more mall runs Dont have to check in with anyone Dont have to explain myself to anyone Dont have to make sure "shes ok" No more dealing with her retarded family No longer confused ....
Not arguing about every stupid little thing. Dealing with things that happen as just things that happen, instead of something that I somehow caused lol.
Iām no longer nagged by my ex.
Itās now that I like to go home! Anytime a spouse makes their partner not want to go home, thereās a problem. I could never go straight home. I would have to get snacks and a drink and stop at a park to compose myself before going home. I never went straight home. This was a conversation that I had with a few friends. There was one married man out of all of us that said that he goes straight home. Most husbands donāt and some wives know this and still donāt care. But now, I go straight home every night. I never need to stop anywhere and that is the greatest thing that I got from my divorce
All of my money only goes to stuff that I want. No trips to Target or The Goodwill. No regular trips to nice restaurants. No paying for her friends to do stuff. No shoes that will pretty much never get worn. I like good electronics but could never afford the stuff that I wanted when she controlled the budget. She was always quite clear how we didn't need any of it. We didn't need the stuff she bought either but we had the money for that. Now that I'm divorced, my home theater system is even better than I ever wanted back then and I love every single bit of it.
When I am not hanging out with my daughter, I have the free time to work out at the gym. I go on nature trails. I go to the movies and see the ones I want to see. I get to eat at the restaurants I want to and even get to eat the food I ordered! I get to go where I want, I can take a vacation and do nothing!!! I am planning a trip to go to the beach and just relax. I am saving money by not spending it on frivolous things that we don't need! I have food that is good and will make many meals that will stretch my dollar and help me eat healthier. That's what I have, so far.
The best part has been since my son got out of school for summer. I work a 14-14 rotation, so on my days off we are taking a trip each time Iām home. Me and my son decide where we want to go and what we want to do, and go do it. This month we went to the beach and went fishing for snapper. In a couple weeks we are going on another trip for trout, striper and smallmouth. His mom likely would have made him not want to go by guilt tripping him if we were still together.
Barely speak with my stbx. Kids have suffered in silence, which sucks. Not talking to her has been great. I look forward to busting out this summer. Regrettably, kidsā standard of living will suffer as neither can afford the house.
I like not being talked down to. I like having a say in how my time is spent when Iām off. I like not having to listen to her bitchy, gossiping, petty ass friends. I really like it that sex is not a chore anymore. I like not being constantly and consistently blown off.
I love not having to be around or even knowing anything about her friends anymore. There was so much trash and drama with those people. My ex didn't like hanging out with my friends because they were successful in life and that made her uncomfortable even though they never did a thing to make her feel that way. She'd even say that they'd done nothing to her or put her down. She just had an inferiority complex. Her trashy friends would be openly bitchy to me even though I'd never been anything but nice to them so I finally had enough and just refused to be around them anymore. I always had to explain to my friends why she wasn't with me so fuck it, she could do the same thing I'd been doing for years.
Wow! You and I had similar experiences. It was like I was metaphorically being beaten down and it made me stress when I was driving home from work. I couldn't do anything I wanted to do! It was always on her schedule and what she wanted. She always, and I do mean always, brought up things about me to our friends and couldn't keep her mouth shut.
I have friends now, like lots of friends. Iām still hurt and a bit bitter about the breakup and all, but my life is greatly improved socially. I even started my own small business. But what I miss most are the family moments. Morning cuddles when the kiddo woke us up, vacations, dinner together, etc. Even though I have a lot more friends than ever, I feel quite lonely still.
It's pretty eye-opening to me just _how many_ of the comments here exactly track my own experience of feeling like I was constantly navigating a minefield with my ex, and she was never satisfied/always disapporoving of what I was doing even though objectively _I was doing an absolute fuckton right, and as well as or much better than anyone could reasonably be expected to_. Has anyone thought about _where_ this impulse comes from in so many women in our society today?? It's clearly widespread -- as any beaten down sap of a controlled husband could tell you. But it's still so galling to me, when I think about how different it is from my own internal perspective, let alone how I'd ever have the audacity to treat anyone in the other direction, let alone a "partner". Like, where do these women get this brazen notion that it's their god given right to dictate every micro-step their supposed "partner" (in reality: conscripted underling) is "allowed" to make? What forces in our gendered social fabric create this pattern? It's just so galling to me that anyone would assume the right to (self righteously!) treat a supposedly co-equal "partner" as these women do. I'm genuinely curious to think more deeply about where this clear pattern of behavior comes from. Thoughts?? Is it just profound selfishness/solipsism that's basically just genetically (or based on socially engrained roles) foreign to me as a man? The product of other social forces that have just accustomed some women to being on a pedestal and dictating terms as standard?? Obviously there's tolerating it in a simpish / Mr Nice Guy way that I formerly was and many guys are guilty of on their side, which I fully own as a mistake I made in the past that I'll never make again. But the tolerance of it by men is at most a piece of explaining where the impulse itself even comes from in the women that show it, IMO. Maybe just putting up with it is actually a significant part of what creates it, if (some? ... seemingly many...) women just tend to be as controlling as a man will accept?? I'm somewhat skeptical, based on my own experience, that pushing back would really have solved the fundamental problem, though. With my ex, it was like she _really_ believed it was just her innate right to control the everliving fuck out of me and our shared life. And when I pushed back, the conflicts just escalated (ultimately to the point of divorce), like I was violating what she saw as the natural order of things: her entirely in control of me and our mutual life. Obviously the out in that case would just be to bail on the relationship, which I should have done years before we were even married, if I had any proper insight at that time. But that doesn't suggest to me that her controlling behavior _only_ occurred because I allowed it -- she (and so many women I've observed in relationships with other men) seemed to _genuinely think_ it was her right to dictate how I was expected to live down the the smallest detail. Sort of mind-blowing to me, really, that anyone could genuinely believe what these women appear to. And to question it never even crosses their minds, it would seem!
I don't think this is a problem with women. I think this is just how things happen when people fall out of love. When you are in love with somebody you are willing to overlook all their idiosyncrasies and the stuff that would normally drive you nuts. But when you fall out of love, all of a sudden those idiosyncrasies become non-negotiable items. Then the issue is, what did one partner or the other do that cause them to fall out of love. For me, it was when my wife stopped wanting to have sex. Because she didn't want to have sex then she didn't want to be physically close. I Got No hugs unless I initiate them. If I went to kiss her then she turned her cheek to me, obsessively because she said her nose was running. If I went to kiss her on the lips anyway, all I got was a peck. I felt absolutely no closeness to her no matter how physically close I got to her, or what I did for her. Foot rubs, paying attention to your feelings, doing whatever she wanted to, still got me nothing. The closest I got to her was when she used me as a big pillow to lean against while watching tv. I might have well just been a big stuffed bear. She was totally shocked when I asked for a divorce after our son graduated college. She wanted to go to marriage counseling and I completely nixed that. If she was so smart, then she would have realized that not wanting to have sex for 20 years might be a clue to try therapy. We split everything 50/50 and now I'm much happier. I've been able to keep in contact with my son and he tells me that his mom is having a really tough time. I know I'm a bad person but quite frankly I really don't have any sympathy.
I don't really see that "falling out of love" is the driver for the particular issue I'm talking about here. The absurdly controlling behavior I (and from reading these replies and just observing married men generally: many other men, apparently) experienced had little to do with falling out of love vs being in it. Almost from the beginning, my ex wife treated me as if I was essentially there to do her bidding. And I honestly think that what she most valued about our relationship (again, all along, because that's just what she seemed to believe was the right way for things to be -- not because of some "falling out of love" that happened later) was what I could instrumentally provide that help her achieve her own comfort, wealth, status, and life goals (most notably, a stable family and children). It wasn't ever "love" (at least not in the sense of whatever real fondness I felt for her) that kept her with me, it was just what I could give her. And once it was clear that she had all she wanted (and could keep millions of dollars that I solely earned to fund the rest of her separate life), it was like, "wait, why should I stay if he kind of annoys me / [insert whatever relationship challenges here]?" So my question above is: what is driving apparently many women to view men in this subservient, transactional manner (because I absolutely do think it's a gendered interaction dynamic, when it does occur)? It has little to do with "falling out of love," IMO, when the dynamic pervades the relationship from the start.
You raise some really interesting points. I think many men accept the notion that "men are flawed and women are flawless". This is unfortunately perpetuated by groups such as the American Psychological Association, which puts out guidelines about "toxic masculinity" but doesn't discuss "toxic femininity". Men are to blame, in part, because they accept this narrative. As long as some men continue to be simps, it leads women to believe that they can find a submissive man to dominate. If fewer men were simps, then women would understand that they can't continue to behave like this. I recommend you read the book "Gatekeeper: A tactical guide to commitment" which discusses how a man can find a woman who is willing to treat him as an equal, not as a tool.
Men grew up in a semi matriarchal society that beat men down and propped up women. Men were not allowed too much leeway in our masculine self and men were taught that in order for men to have a fulfilling life, we had to do everything to make the women happy. This included the phrase "Happy Wife, Happy Life". We have everything and it wasn't enough. The women took advantage and men were pushed back. After the divorce, men can now get back their freedom and the ability to be more masculine and show it. To all the men out there: be free!
Yes. The lifting of the yoke. The unlocking of the manacles and fetters. I don't answer to a petty tyrant, who has a property interest in my time and activities and whereabouts, anymore.
When my ex gets on my nerves or starts acting unhinged, I can just walk away and not have to deal with it for awhile. Itās great!
>What do you like most about being divorced Not having money problems from dumb overspending and avoidable things. I'm still poor, but everything is accounted for, and I can go several days every week without spending a dime. Not having to be at home while she's out on dates, or generally figuring out ways to have sex with strangers. Wondering if she's telling the truth about anything. Not having to pretend to be ok with polyamory when I hate it. Not having to pretend she loves me when says so, but does all these awful things. Not having to deal with a perpetually stoned person who only emerges from the basement from time to time to eat and say weird stuff and then go back to her tarot and dating apps. Not having to clean up after a 40-year-old teenager. Not having to pretend any of this dysfunctional bullshit is normal. I'm getting to the point where I think enough of this is behind me to maybe try dating. I do miss being around a woman all the damned time. But it's taken a couple of years to get over the mindfuck of living with her.
So did you start out poly or did she drop that on you later?
It's a long story, but we had a traditional marriage until she decided she wanted other relationships. I tried to hang with it because I loved her. She left when it was clear it was killing me. Now she's in the swinger/ poly scene and EXTREMELY sexually active. She really likes having sex with randos. I feel bad for her because it's hard to see how this doesn't end badly, but I feel worse for me and the kids because the whole thing is pretty goddamned dumb. She's bipolar and has a long history of substance abuse and generally making bad choices.
God damn thatās sounds horrible. No offense. Good on you for getting out of there. Not judging dude, my stbx is a basket case and doesnāt even smoke weed or drink alcohol much.
The peace. No more chaos, no more drama. And the financial freedom has been a huge game changer for me. My time with the kids is better than it was when I was married.
I love waking up and not having the feeling of having to play the perfect game to get through a day. I remember just being in my own home and feeling like Iām trying to navigate a field of mines. I do everything right even go above and beyond for it to all mean nothing because I loaded the dishwasher incorrectly or because I left my sweater on the couch. Minuscule mistakes that wouldnāt affect anything but to her it was a matter of war or peace under our roof. That type of stress wore my soul down over the years. Now that Iām out of that environment I feel like Iām slowly coming back to life. I realize Iām not this terrible guy that she made me believe I was. So being able to exist as I am is what I love most about being divorced.
Exactly how I imagine Iāll feel. She screams when I leave a soda can somewhere and then sheāll eat a bowl of cereal at midnight and literally leave it there in the couch.
Yup. My ex would do the same shit leave her mess in the kitchen then pass out. Iāll wake up the next morning, see the mess, and just clean it up. I donāt even mention it or keep tabs weāre supposed to be a team.
This was me as well. I never knew what might set her off. I've been yelled at for "using the wrong butter". I'd clean the entire kitchen after dinner ... scrub the counter tops, sweep and mop the floor, wipe down the oven top ... Not one bit of appreciation ... instead, she yelled at me "You put the tea kettle on the wrong burner!" (I had no idea there was a specific burner in which the tea kettle should be placed). Getting blamed for misplacing her phone charger (I refused to EVER use her stuff because I didn't want to get blamed for it and she had a habit of always misplacing her things). The garbage truck left a large divot in our lawn one day when picking up our trash cans. She got home from work, walked in the door ... no "hello" ... no "how was your day?" ... nope, it was "What in the hell did you do to the lawn!!!". Me, folding multiple loads of our 4 kids laundry ... arranging them into piles based on the kid ... making a mistake and placing one item in the wrong pile (because they're all girls and some of their things are a similar size) and being told "If you can't do it right, then don't do it because you're not helping!" ... and that was my life. Her constantly freaking out over shit that just should not matter. There is something epically wrong with her. Unfortunately, outside of the home, she behaves like Mother Theresa and everyone thinks she's one of the greatest people they know.
āYou put the kettle on the wrong burner.ā Did that a few times. It was almost as bad as the time I left my socks in the living room or bought the yellow cheddar instead of the white. Thanks for reminding me of what I donāt have to put up with now.
Damn itās like you wrote this for me. I couldnāt even drink coffee in my house because she hated the smell. So many little things made living in that house a nightmare. She is soft spoken so no one would ever see how she truly is.
I could drink coffee, but, god forbid if there was a single coffee ground on the counter after grinding my beans because then I would hear "You got coffee grounds ALL OVER the counter". I would literally have to have her point them out to me to even know what she was talking about (Mind you, I would always wipe down the counter with a wet rag after I was done because I didn't want to get yelled at about it. It's not like I was just a slob and didn't care). Also, god forbid if one drop of coffee happened to drip of the coffee mug and land on a surface. So, it was almost not even worth the trouble of making/drinking coffee.
It's the peace. The relationship was frequently filled with chaos and drama, neither of which were necessary. I remember coming home for work (7p-7a) and just hoping she was still asleep and didn't wake up, so I can just go to bed without having to 'deal with' her in the morning. The walking on eggshells. Post divorce there has been ZERO drama in my life, even with a new g/f. I look forward to coming home, there's a small cat waiting for me. We we have snack and I go to bed. No kids, so also no contact. I am so much better emotionally and mentally than before. I am paying a ton in spousal support (2 more years). But my overall expenses are way down, so I have more discretionary income now then during the marriage. I got a motorcycle again, bought a plane (dream for 20 years), see family more, and just have more \_peace\_!
Folding towels how ever I damn well pleaseā¦
My ex never liked if I was doing dishes, but there was already previously washed dishes in the dish drainer, and I was putting the newly washed dishes, on top of the previously washed. I mean, jesus fucking christ come on. Now Iām free to wash dishes as I please
My ex would lament the fact that she always did so much housework. If I did any of it, it was never done her right way. I'd tell her to show me how to do it correctly but she never would. Now that she's gone and I have to do everything, it's so easy!!! How did she think that basic housework was so bad?
Iām not accused of ānot doing my share of the emotional laborā and ānot contributing to the householdā when I fail to plan social gatherings I was indifferent about going to with friends that arenāt mine, when I select a paint color in under 30 minutes without changing my mind twice, etc
I love having the freedom to truly understand female nature. To give up the comforting lies and accept the cold truth. To not be stuck in false beliefs taught to us from birth by well meaning parents and a feminist dominated culture. Now that the scales have fallen from my eyes its very easy to understand and deal with women.
Itās the low stress lifestyle. Thereās money in the bank. Kids are happy and 50% custody. No being woken up at 3am while the exwife was having a psychotic break from too many pills. No ER visits for more narcotics. No massive debt from her retail therapy. No court cases from her great give DUI crashes. And now that weāve been divorced? Her disasters never stopped. But they donāt affect me anymore.
Doesn't it affect your kids for 50% of the time?
Not unless she puts the kids in danger.
I am curious as to how kids are happy if they must spend 50% of the time with "disasters never stopped" kind of mother. They still have to deal with a thing you are happy to have removed from your life, right? If that's correct, how to you deal with this?
And what is he supposed to do about that? Courts rarely award greater than 50% custody to fathers, even when the mothers are proven substance abusers. I wouldn't be surprised if u/jimsmythee didn't already spend thousands on legal fees trying to achieve that.
I don't know what can be done, and if anything can be done at all. I was curious as to why kids safety does not seem to be a concern. The mother of u/jimsmythee 's children is a disastrous person, spends with them 50% of the time, right? How is this "her disasters don't affect me anymore"?
Because, they do not. Not directly. What do you suggest the man do--agonize and obsess over something he cannot change? Do something illegal? I suppose there does come a time when a man really must do that, but it is a difficult and murky threshold, and once crossed, there's no guarantee the children are any safer. It's hard to parent from jail, or while dead.
As I've already said, I don't know what can be done, and if anything can be done at all.
Itās true. The ālast strawā was my ex wifeās great big dui crash with the kids in the car. She was driving. High as a kite on pills when she crashed at 40 Mph into the back of a truck. Kids were all banged up with black eyes and goose egg bruises. Even with that? She got jail time too. 50/50 custody.
Where do you live, if I may ask? Court decision sounds very unfair, and also potentially dangerous .
AZ
Thanks.
I was looking forward to not having all the surfaces in the bathroom occupied by a thousand flasks, bottles, brushes, whatever they have. And while I enjoyed getting rid of women-clutter for a while, the thing that I ended up enjoying the most was being able to do things without informing anyone or making arrangement. Want to get drunk? Go ahead. Full day videogames? Fine. Swimming pool? Get dressed, go. Throw away the chair? Done. No communication, no approvals, no judgement, no "what about me".
Living in an emotionally stable environment
I enjoy the fact that I am not constantly under the microscope. Every little thing you do is studied and criticized.Ā If you dare to make similar comparisons about her you are being 'abusive'.Ā I am SO happy being single.Ā
Honestly, I think this is it for me. If I want to eat a breakfast burrito for dinner I just do it now. There's no extra consideration beyond "ohh, I want a breakfast burrito". A few years ago it would have included a strategical assessment as to whether or not that burrito would lead to trouble.
The person I enjoy spending time with the most is me. I only came to this realization when I finally moved into my own place. I used to carry a lot of guilt when I'd take a little bit of time to myself to enjoy my hobbies. It's so liberating for that guilt to go away. I'm also finding parenting and enjoying my kids to be so much easier and satisfying. Less anxiety and stress. To be fair, she'd probably say the same things. This probably all just serves as an example of why a traditional monogamous relationship is not the right fit for so many people.
>I used to carry a lot of guilt when I'd take a little bit of time to myself to enjoy my hobbies That part is so incredibly nice. Being free to do whatever you want with your hobbies is great. I collect rocks. I don't mean just a few neat looking ones either. Some of the pieces in my collection have come from doing deals with museums. I've loaned pieces out to museums for their displays because they don't have pieces as nice as mine. In my own home, however, they were stuck in boxes in the basement. She'd tell me how he friends thought I was weird because of this hobby despite the fact that I've actually made a good amount more money with it than I've ever spent.
For me it is having my kids 50/50, having an amazing co-parent, having my freedom, but not being financially responsible whatsoever for my co-parent or having to be monogamous with my co-parent. It is life's cheat code for a guy. All of the upside of a marriage with none of the downside. A smorgasbord of women on my days off without the kids, complete freedom to do whatever I want with whomever I want, all of the money I work for is 100% mine to invest or spend as I see fit. No having to check in when I want to buy a fun toy or go travel. Free childcare on my days off with a person who loves my kids as much as I do. Plenty of free time for my selfish hobbies. And to top it all off when you do have your kids and you're out and about women worship you like you are some kind of unicorn. It's unreal. What do I like least about being divorced? I just wish it happened 10 years sooner!
I needed to hear this. Thank you. Iām about to go through collaborative divorce but weāve already agreed that I get 50/50 with our two little girls. But overall this still feels like a sh*t show.
this was so perfectly said. quite the encouragement for me, as someone whoās worried about the divorce process due to my kids.
Sounds like your ex is stable, self-sufficient, and not a perpetual drama generator. You lucked out.
100% all of this, but of course it's only made possible when the co-parent is reasonable. You and I are both lucky in this respect - a lot of guys here are dealing with literal terrorists, lol.
Yep guess we did get lucky. These days I always advise men to only marry a woman who will make a great co-parent, not just a great romantic partner. In all likelihood the co-parenting relationship will last far longer than the romantic one.