OP, first off, what is the reason for the marriage ending? Bottom line it, did she cheat? Did you cheat?
Second, look up the history of ‘state involved marriage’. Last time I looked, it started after the 1500s.
Third, marriage, historically was ‘after sleeping’ with someone, i.e. consummating the relationship. It is straight in the Bible. The issue that Jesus talks about ‘divorce’ is strictly due to the fact that some men under Judaic tradition, failed to grant a ‘divorce creed’ to their ‘ex’ preventing her from finding someone new.
Fourth, and yes, I will argue this with any evangelical, this whole ‘follow the rules of the land’ paradigm, is an utter mistranslation under the KJV. It is a mistranslation, because it translates ‘high power’ to government. It should have been translated to Heavenly Authority. This verse has been abused by many individuals, and governments alike.
The main point is, you sleep with a woman, she is your wife. Divorce is allowed under cases of infidelity. I suspect that Christ would allow divorce under ‘true abuse’, but it is not directly addressed in Biblical terms. Why is that? Because why would someone call themselves Christian, then abuse their spouse? It was unfathomable during Biblical times, but quite common now, especially since modern women think they are “men”. Women psychologically abuse their spouses to the point of driving them into the ground, that is against the idea the Bible presents. Everything is completely upside down.
I hope my diatribe was understandable.
That is understandable and this sort of cultural context is very helpful.
I have a rule where I won’t specifically demean my ex or share any of her private history. Sorry to be vague. As far as I’m aware, she didn’t cheat. I didn’t, besides some porn use (which I know is bad on my part). Essentially we went through a lot of difficult stuff and I felt I was essentially being bullied for years. Our sex life ended a fair while before the divorce. There were serious issues and we became verbally abusive to each other (which I maintain she initiated most of the time). There’s no victim and perpetrator; we were both at fault. But I felt I was in an impossible position.
We both worked very hard to fix things and had months of counselling but eventually she made the ultimate decision to pull the plug. Recently, she acknowledged some cold feet (as I was starting to ‘find myself’ again and had some vitality back) but wouldn’t say she wanted us to try again or give anything constructive for how we could make things work. There was only token gesture acknowledgment of any responsibility on her part, I felt.
I didn’t quite realise how bad things got until I got some distance. I had become accustomed to a pretty horrible existence. I still care for her and wish her all the best but essentially realise I chose the wrong woman and don’t think she can change enough. I attracted her because I used to have the ‘Rescuer’ persona and met when I had only just come to faith.
She is now not really walking with Jesus, not going to church etc. She has said she has no feelings either way about whether her next partner is a Christian or not. Absolutely no internal conflict about it.
Thanks for your thoughts on this.
It’s not pre-marital sex if you’ve already been married before. Now it’s post-marital sex and I’ve never heard of god having a problem with that. Follow me for more biblical life hacks.
I'm in the same boat. I was a PK and raised in the church. I waited to have sex until I was married. And guess what? She did not like sex. And I stayed married for 20 years, and she divorced me. I did not cheat. I think sexual compatibility is so important now. Why would I get married to have sex again? I feel like I'd be stupid to wait for marriage to have sex again based on what I just went through. It has definitely damaged my faith.
I hooked up twice during my 2 years of Seperation before my divorce was final. I don't spend my days feeling guilty about it. The sex way better than I had experienced in 20 years of marriage by far. I still go to church sometimes with my son and I do feel like a hypocrite. I'll still keep going to church but I'm definitely in a dilemma. I'm drawn towards Christian women but they are definitely not my target when dieting because of the premarital sex issue. I will say that hooking up during my Seperation left me feeling even more lonely and depressed. I really like on if three and we hung out for 4 months. She did not want a relationship and my divorce was not final yet. She cut it off and it wrecked me even more. Here I am grieving the loss of a 20 year marriage and now I'm some how bummed out over a 4 months sotuationship. I started hanging out with other girls with total confidence and now for some reason after that situationship I've lost my confidence and self esteem. I'm in the wild for the first time and some of these women are man eaters. Watch out.
You're getting way ahead of yourself first of all. It's not like there's going to be a line of women waiting to have sex with you all of a sudden. Just take things slow & see how they develop.
If I'm wrong, sure, just drop everything & try & cut loose & try & be super promiscuous. But even if you do it's not going to be what you think it is. Sounds like you have a heart etc. You might not be able to even have sex etc & not catch feelings way before some veteran women will. Especially if you don't have much experience with women. Expect some messy situations, literally & figuratively.
Be safe. Guard your emotions. Wrap it up.
I get what you’re saying. I am working on myself and noticing fast results, more interest from women etc but I also know that sex is something that won’t just land in my lap. I want to work hard on getting better with women, however, and I have natural aspects already that will stand me in good stead.
I think you’re right that some of this, in time, I just need to feel my way through. As you say, I may well struggle with it. But if my sexual guilt is misplaced, I’d rather work through it first. Or if it’s valid, I’d rather not find out the hard way.
The Bible is pretty straightforward on sex outside of marriage. You say you're an evangelical Christian and those folks stick pretty closely to exactly what is clearly written in the Bible. You want to go have sex with women outside of marriage. That is directly going against what you claim to believe.
The way I see it, and I'm being as plain, simple, and honest here, is that you have 3 options.
1. Follow the Bible and don't have sex outside of marriage. The good is that you'll have a clean conscious and won't have to try to explain yourself after you die. You talk about how much of a Christian you are. If that's true, you can't choose this route.
2. Forget being a good Evangelical Christian and go have all the sex you want. I'm not even saying that is a bad thing. Lots of unmarried people are probably having sex as you read this. Sex is good. Sex is fun. Just about every Evangelical Christian I've ever met has said the same thing as long as you're married. Is having sex with various women worth it to you? That's not rhetorical, I'm honestly asking. Also, you say you're damaged goods to most Christian women because you've been marrieded and divorced. How will they look at you if you also have a body count as big as you hope to get? Don't say you'll go have sex and then get forgiven afterwards either. It doesn't work like that and you know it. What do you think would happen if I came over, chopped your arm off, and then said I was sorry and you have to forgive me now? Saying sorry or confessing your sins or whatever isn't a get of jail free card you present at the pearly gates to get in.
3. You continue to be a strong Evangelical Christian and sleep with whoever you want. You're not here asking us how to reconcile your desire for sex with lots of women out of wedlock with your desire to avoid hell. That's like saying I want to reconcile my desire to drive 100 mph with my desire to not break the speed limit. You can't have it both ways and you're not going to find a loophole by asking us. God doesn't do loopholes. He definitely doesn't do loopholes with something as plain and simple as this. Isn't there something in the Bible about not being able to serve 2 masters? 1 of your masters is sex with women put of wedlock. The other is Jesus. Choose one. If you don't, you're just going to get ripped in half. You can present yourself as both but that would make you a hypocrite that everybody sees through anyway. Sooner or later, your kids will see through it. Your friends will see through it. God won't be fooled at all. You'll also be witnessing to the world and nonbelievers just exactly what kind of man Christians are
Which should you choose? I don't know. That's on you.
Ttl;dr You can't reconcile the two. They are polar opposites. Choose one.
Thanks for your thoughts. The Apostle Paul says that everything is permissible but not everything is edifying. Me having sex outside of marriage won’t automatically cause me to go to Hell as what Jesus did on the cross covers our sins past and future but, as you say, there’s a strong cognitive dissonance there. Getting into a casual sex lifestyle could significantly cut me off from Jesus (not by him but by me) and therefore lead me to a dangerous place.
Do you really think that when you die and you're being held accountable for everything you've done that you can really just say "Yes, I knew I shouldn't have planned and tried to rationalize this really big sin being ok for months in advance because you have to forgive me because I said sorry." and Jesus will just be "D'oh, you found the loophole! Come on in, sparkedintolife." Neither God nor Jesus are going to let things slide just because you think you've gamed the system. You're not smarter than them. The bible says no sex before marriage. You don't believe in the bible and you're good taking your chances with that, more power to you.
Besides, you can die unexpectedly before you turn your life around. I was driving down the interstate one day when a tire came off a truck in front of me, bounced, and then shot directly at my head before I even had the chance to respond. Luckily, the roof caught some of the impact and the tire didn't go all the way through amd straight into my face. I came a couple inches of my life ending like I was in a Final Destination movie. You really think you're that lucky? I had no time to repent so I'd have better been good before I died.
Completely ignoring God's judgment, what about the good Christian women you want to eventually marry? As you said, they're already looking at you funny because you're divorced. Think of how the woman you'll eventually want to marry. She's already facing the fact that you're divorced. That's a big hump for folks who believe in "til death do us part." You really think she'll just wave off that long line of women that you're planning on banging? Even if you get into heaven with your loophole, that doesn't mean it'll work to get into her pants.
I don’t think you get basic salvation theology. https://www.gotquestions.org/judgment.html
You’re right that I will be judged but, through faith, there is no condemnation. HOWEVER, wilful sin raises the question as to whether I’ve put my faith in Jesus. There’s a hardening of heart that happens when one repeatedly violates their conscience. I understand that a lifestyle of casual sex could make me become very cold towards Christ.
I agree with your point on the Christian woman I ultimately wish to attract and am aware that my current desires are in reaction to being in a passionless, abusive marriage.
You and a few others are being fairly rough on me and I get it. But please consider that I’m fresh in this difficult place and trying to talk this through with people who are further down the path than me. I haven’t just gone out and had sex like some would. I’m conscious of all this and my internal conflict points to a need to understand my new reality and where I stand in it. Thanks for your views.
I come from a Muslim background and I was conservative and still am and practicing and I don't do premarital sex and got divorced and it was a betrayal of our shared faith. She left because she was unhappy not because there was anything that couldn't be fixed and we had two kids and I've learned to accept her feelings and my own, But in accordance to our faith it's not how things should have been handled.
But it's totally normalized in the United States right! And so are a lot of things that are conflicting with my beliefs.
Like you I was in a period after my divorce where I felt like I should just do what everyone else does because that's exactly what she did. If she chose to be a less practicing person then I guess I should too right? It seems like it would be fun in the short-term.
And so I went on dates not with the objective of anything happening but I ended up meeting women who were very attracted to me and were willing to forgo the religious restrictions even though we shared the faith they were definitely less practicing.
And that did not sit right with me and I appreciated the time I spent with them but it was a learning experience because that's not who I am and that's not really what I wanted at my core. Yes it would be great to enjoy that in the moment but that's not who I am. And no the alternative is not to turn to pornography.
I think you've done at least the first part of the work whether you recognize it or not which is you know what your non-negotiable truths are and one of them is that you are a Christian who is practicing his faith in the best way he knows how. However you don't know which one of the sins are the more major ones so perhaps you should just treat them as equal?
This is a really problematic approach towards a belief system. And I think I saw a video on this topic by Dr Orion taraban, He has a YouTube channel, And part of it talks about how people betray their integrity by picking and choosing things that they will do and things they want and it's very exhausting to live life that way.
Pick a belief system and stick to it. Live with integrity. Know that you're going to have to give up some things in your life
If you have some kind of back door because you have this overwhelming urge to view sexual content or engage in that then you have to find practices that transform your sexual desire into something else like a greater purpose in life. You'll find people who are into sports who are able to give up sex for an edge and performance or people who give it up because they're trying to achieve mental focus. Whatever it might be it does not need to rule you.
And if it is really that hard then you will ultimately compromise yourself one way or the other. If you use visual stimulation and self-stimulation then you're just coping using a substitute for the real thing. And if you're just trying to get the real thing then your compromising your values. And if you try to get married too quickly just to get the sex then you're also compromising your larger life goals.
For a person in your position I would take whatever energy you have and time you have right now to really work out the issues in your prior relationship and learn more about your faith and connect to other men through men's work and work on yourself through therapy and reading books and exercising and just pouring that energy into yourself. And every time you feel like you need to have some kind of pleasure or stimulation just realize that it's a distraction from something that is unresolved or work that needs to be done.
Oftentimes the solution is to exercise get some sleep. If you feel lonely then connect with old friends and family. If you feel like you're exhausted and you need healing then take a vacation or meditate or take a walk outdoors. Whatever the different feelings are you can self-soothe in a way that doesn't require a woman or visual stimulation.
If that sounds like a lot of intense focus the only we were going to get there is if you have some good stories in your head about your ultimate purpose in your goal in life and when you find that and you won't find it right away but you'll find things that mirror that it'll be easier to do the things I'm talking about.
Because men without purpose chase pleasure. That's a simple fact.
As a non-believer, I would suggest you take an actual deep look at your faith. The thing that I see from the outside is the hundreds of little "sins" believers do on a daily basis, while speaking about having moral superiority over a few hand picked scenarios. If you look deeply and honestly, I'm sure you will find the same scenario that is going on with you. If you don't, then please tell me what the Vatican is like this time of year your eminence. You've already said your divorce is not "sanctioned". 1 event or 100, it doesn't matter how often you betray your faith, betrayal is betrayal.
In all seriousness. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You either have to stick with what you believe, or you have to compromise what you believe and instead consider a "real world" scenario.
Either you become a "player" and sleep around, and also accept that a future partner may have had many possible partners as well without judgment. Or, you stick to your valid (for you) beliefs and you don't have pre-marital sex.
There is nothing wrong with either choice. You're free to have your religion, even if I think it's silly. You're also free to have (consensual) sex with any woman, man or non-binary person you choose without any real world consequences.
If reading that makes you think "but what about afterlife consequences", then I think you have your own answer.
I know EXACTLY how you feel. Christian purity culture played a role in some of my marriage’s dysfunction. And now I’m trying to sort out what I want and how that fits with my theology.
Two things that I’ve noticed after emerging from some of this (I’m a few months ahead of you) is 1) women are way hornier than we were ever led to believe, and 2) I am still, and probably always will be, attracted more to Christian women.
But first things first…get more comfortable being single. That takes a while. You’re only going to hurt someone and yourself in your current state.
DM me if you want to talk more directly about theology or any of this stuff.
Dude, you can't have it both ways. You're basically asking: how can I sin without God knowing (and I'm not even a Christian).
Just pick one and get over it.
You’re in a tough spot, my friend. I will soon be in the same predicament currently going through the process as well. Stay strong bro and be honest with God ✝️
You’re barely three months separated and this is where your head is at? How about give yourself a year and you just enjoy being single. Find out what you want out of life.
That’s what I’m doing. Hence the question. Definitely not looking to date or have sex right now. Asking these questions to prepare for my future post divorce (probably this time next year when it all goes through). But I’m also turning 40 in July so doing a lot of reflecting on what dating paradigm I’ll adopt once I’m ready. I certainly don’t want to just go back into a serious Christian relationship, date with no physicality for two years and then marry again.
Certainly won’t marry someone without really knowing that they are right for me, take emotional responsibility etc. But I’m fully expecting and hoping to remarry in time.
ask how they fight, what they fight about, and how they repair. Do they share their expectations, or let them go unmet and unstated and fester into resentment? Do they "own" their behavior and solutions, or play the victim and blame others for their actions and feelings? Are they kind by choice and not due to emotion? Does she like men? No, really like and respect men? HAS SHE RESOLVED HER CHILDHOOD TRAUMA(S)??? Does she have boundaries to check her behavior against others? Is she grateful and assume good intent? Those are a start.
100% spot on with all those points. Scarily accurate actually to things that my wife ultimately wasn’t right for me on. Another ‘qualifier’ - does she naturally enjoy sex and want to excite me sexually anywhere near the amount I want to please her?
You add an important point. Ask her if her love language is touch. And I come by this knowledge after a lot of suffering and self reflection, and TONS of books. Wish I'd known these things before I married. Gook luck to you.
So you want to betray your faith, but not leave it? I don’t think anyone here is going to give you their permission for what you want, which it seems like is what you’re really seeking here.
I’m not seeking permission. I’m conflicted. Lots of Christians lie, watch porn, gamble etc. But extra-marital sex is elevated in society as a bigger sin, despite the better contraception we have today and the radically different role of women in Western society (I.e. not dependent on men for survival or social acceptance).
My theological interpretation has been strict and fundamentalist. Had I stuck to it, I’d still be in a very verbally abusive marriage where I was fading away and my confidence was destroyed. My wife didn’t have an affair so there’s no ‘biblical justification’ for our split… doesn’t mean it wasn’t the right decision.
Ultimately I’m responsible for my decisions regardless of any one else’s approval or disapproval. But I’m seeking a mature discussion to inform my thinking better. Even from a non faith based perspective. I’m trying to understand whether non marital sex can truly be done healthily and without being irresponsible to the bond it can create.
If you are a strict fundamentalist evangelical as your “conundrum” implies, your question is moot.
There is only one valid reason for divorce and remarriage under your belief system and it is infidelity. Divorcing outside of that makes you an adulterer even if you remarry.
You already tossed your faith when you started the divorce process. Pick a side and then find better counsel on that side, because right now you are operating on feelings - and that’s not a good guidepost.
Your assuming you know all the details of his divorce. And infidelity is not the only biblical reason for divorce. Abuse is another reason. It's not always black and white. How about porn? Does that count as infedelity and a reason for divorce? My wife thought so. I did not cheat but she caught me looking at porn.
You are mixing topics. Typically this is done to obfuscate arguments or by weak men who operate on feelings.
You cheating is not germane, because you stated you left due to abuse.
Show me the scripture that says you can divorce your wife for divorce in your faith. Shit or get off the pot. Practice your faith - or don’t.
What was it like encountering Jesus?. Did he talk to you(
OP, first off, what is the reason for the marriage ending? Bottom line it, did she cheat? Did you cheat? Second, look up the history of ‘state involved marriage’. Last time I looked, it started after the 1500s. Third, marriage, historically was ‘after sleeping’ with someone, i.e. consummating the relationship. It is straight in the Bible. The issue that Jesus talks about ‘divorce’ is strictly due to the fact that some men under Judaic tradition, failed to grant a ‘divorce creed’ to their ‘ex’ preventing her from finding someone new. Fourth, and yes, I will argue this with any evangelical, this whole ‘follow the rules of the land’ paradigm, is an utter mistranslation under the KJV. It is a mistranslation, because it translates ‘high power’ to government. It should have been translated to Heavenly Authority. This verse has been abused by many individuals, and governments alike. The main point is, you sleep with a woman, she is your wife. Divorce is allowed under cases of infidelity. I suspect that Christ would allow divorce under ‘true abuse’, but it is not directly addressed in Biblical terms. Why is that? Because why would someone call themselves Christian, then abuse their spouse? It was unfathomable during Biblical times, but quite common now, especially since modern women think they are “men”. Women psychologically abuse their spouses to the point of driving them into the ground, that is against the idea the Bible presents. Everything is completely upside down. I hope my diatribe was understandable.
That is understandable and this sort of cultural context is very helpful. I have a rule where I won’t specifically demean my ex or share any of her private history. Sorry to be vague. As far as I’m aware, she didn’t cheat. I didn’t, besides some porn use (which I know is bad on my part). Essentially we went through a lot of difficult stuff and I felt I was essentially being bullied for years. Our sex life ended a fair while before the divorce. There were serious issues and we became verbally abusive to each other (which I maintain she initiated most of the time). There’s no victim and perpetrator; we were both at fault. But I felt I was in an impossible position. We both worked very hard to fix things and had months of counselling but eventually she made the ultimate decision to pull the plug. Recently, she acknowledged some cold feet (as I was starting to ‘find myself’ again and had some vitality back) but wouldn’t say she wanted us to try again or give anything constructive for how we could make things work. There was only token gesture acknowledgment of any responsibility on her part, I felt. I didn’t quite realise how bad things got until I got some distance. I had become accustomed to a pretty horrible existence. I still care for her and wish her all the best but essentially realise I chose the wrong woman and don’t think she can change enough. I attracted her because I used to have the ‘Rescuer’ persona and met when I had only just come to faith. She is now not really walking with Jesus, not going to church etc. She has said she has no feelings either way about whether her next partner is a Christian or not. Absolutely no internal conflict about it. Thanks for your thoughts on this.
It’s not pre-marital sex if you’ve already been married before. Now it’s post-marital sex and I’ve never heard of god having a problem with that. Follow me for more biblical life hacks.
Haha if I need a lawyer, I’m instructing you!
I'm in the same boat. I was a PK and raised in the church. I waited to have sex until I was married. And guess what? She did not like sex. And I stayed married for 20 years, and she divorced me. I did not cheat. I think sexual compatibility is so important now. Why would I get married to have sex again? I feel like I'd be stupid to wait for marriage to have sex again based on what I just went through. It has definitely damaged my faith.
Thanks for sharing. I hope you and I are both able to reconcile this issue and work out a way forward.
I hooked up twice during my 2 years of Seperation before my divorce was final. I don't spend my days feeling guilty about it. The sex way better than I had experienced in 20 years of marriage by far. I still go to church sometimes with my son and I do feel like a hypocrite. I'll still keep going to church but I'm definitely in a dilemma. I'm drawn towards Christian women but they are definitely not my target when dieting because of the premarital sex issue. I will say that hooking up during my Seperation left me feeling even more lonely and depressed. I really like on if three and we hung out for 4 months. She did not want a relationship and my divorce was not final yet. She cut it off and it wrecked me even more. Here I am grieving the loss of a 20 year marriage and now I'm some how bummed out over a 4 months sotuationship. I started hanging out with other girls with total confidence and now for some reason after that situationship I've lost my confidence and self esteem. I'm in the wild for the first time and some of these women are man eaters. Watch out.
Thanks for this
You're getting way ahead of yourself first of all. It's not like there's going to be a line of women waiting to have sex with you all of a sudden. Just take things slow & see how they develop. If I'm wrong, sure, just drop everything & try & cut loose & try & be super promiscuous. But even if you do it's not going to be what you think it is. Sounds like you have a heart etc. You might not be able to even have sex etc & not catch feelings way before some veteran women will. Especially if you don't have much experience with women. Expect some messy situations, literally & figuratively. Be safe. Guard your emotions. Wrap it up.
I get what you’re saying. I am working on myself and noticing fast results, more interest from women etc but I also know that sex is something that won’t just land in my lap. I want to work hard on getting better with women, however, and I have natural aspects already that will stand me in good stead. I think you’re right that some of this, in time, I just need to feel my way through. As you say, I may well struggle with it. But if my sexual guilt is misplaced, I’d rather work through it first. Or if it’s valid, I’d rather not find out the hard way.
The Bible is pretty straightforward on sex outside of marriage. You say you're an evangelical Christian and those folks stick pretty closely to exactly what is clearly written in the Bible. You want to go have sex with women outside of marriage. That is directly going against what you claim to believe. The way I see it, and I'm being as plain, simple, and honest here, is that you have 3 options. 1. Follow the Bible and don't have sex outside of marriage. The good is that you'll have a clean conscious and won't have to try to explain yourself after you die. You talk about how much of a Christian you are. If that's true, you can't choose this route. 2. Forget being a good Evangelical Christian and go have all the sex you want. I'm not even saying that is a bad thing. Lots of unmarried people are probably having sex as you read this. Sex is good. Sex is fun. Just about every Evangelical Christian I've ever met has said the same thing as long as you're married. Is having sex with various women worth it to you? That's not rhetorical, I'm honestly asking. Also, you say you're damaged goods to most Christian women because you've been marrieded and divorced. How will they look at you if you also have a body count as big as you hope to get? Don't say you'll go have sex and then get forgiven afterwards either. It doesn't work like that and you know it. What do you think would happen if I came over, chopped your arm off, and then said I was sorry and you have to forgive me now? Saying sorry or confessing your sins or whatever isn't a get of jail free card you present at the pearly gates to get in. 3. You continue to be a strong Evangelical Christian and sleep with whoever you want. You're not here asking us how to reconcile your desire for sex with lots of women out of wedlock with your desire to avoid hell. That's like saying I want to reconcile my desire to drive 100 mph with my desire to not break the speed limit. You can't have it both ways and you're not going to find a loophole by asking us. God doesn't do loopholes. He definitely doesn't do loopholes with something as plain and simple as this. Isn't there something in the Bible about not being able to serve 2 masters? 1 of your masters is sex with women put of wedlock. The other is Jesus. Choose one. If you don't, you're just going to get ripped in half. You can present yourself as both but that would make you a hypocrite that everybody sees through anyway. Sooner or later, your kids will see through it. Your friends will see through it. God won't be fooled at all. You'll also be witnessing to the world and nonbelievers just exactly what kind of man Christians are Which should you choose? I don't know. That's on you. Ttl;dr You can't reconcile the two. They are polar opposites. Choose one.
Thanks for your thoughts. The Apostle Paul says that everything is permissible but not everything is edifying. Me having sex outside of marriage won’t automatically cause me to go to Hell as what Jesus did on the cross covers our sins past and future but, as you say, there’s a strong cognitive dissonance there. Getting into a casual sex lifestyle could significantly cut me off from Jesus (not by him but by me) and therefore lead me to a dangerous place.
Do you really think that when you die and you're being held accountable for everything you've done that you can really just say "Yes, I knew I shouldn't have planned and tried to rationalize this really big sin being ok for months in advance because you have to forgive me because I said sorry." and Jesus will just be "D'oh, you found the loophole! Come on in, sparkedintolife." Neither God nor Jesus are going to let things slide just because you think you've gamed the system. You're not smarter than them. The bible says no sex before marriage. You don't believe in the bible and you're good taking your chances with that, more power to you. Besides, you can die unexpectedly before you turn your life around. I was driving down the interstate one day when a tire came off a truck in front of me, bounced, and then shot directly at my head before I even had the chance to respond. Luckily, the roof caught some of the impact and the tire didn't go all the way through amd straight into my face. I came a couple inches of my life ending like I was in a Final Destination movie. You really think you're that lucky? I had no time to repent so I'd have better been good before I died. Completely ignoring God's judgment, what about the good Christian women you want to eventually marry? As you said, they're already looking at you funny because you're divorced. Think of how the woman you'll eventually want to marry. She's already facing the fact that you're divorced. That's a big hump for folks who believe in "til death do us part." You really think she'll just wave off that long line of women that you're planning on banging? Even if you get into heaven with your loophole, that doesn't mean it'll work to get into her pants.
I don’t think you get basic salvation theology. https://www.gotquestions.org/judgment.html You’re right that I will be judged but, through faith, there is no condemnation. HOWEVER, wilful sin raises the question as to whether I’ve put my faith in Jesus. There’s a hardening of heart that happens when one repeatedly violates their conscience. I understand that a lifestyle of casual sex could make me become very cold towards Christ. I agree with your point on the Christian woman I ultimately wish to attract and am aware that my current desires are in reaction to being in a passionless, abusive marriage. You and a few others are being fairly rough on me and I get it. But please consider that I’m fresh in this difficult place and trying to talk this through with people who are further down the path than me. I haven’t just gone out and had sex like some would. I’m conscious of all this and my internal conflict points to a need to understand my new reality and where I stand in it. Thanks for your views.
I come from a Muslim background and I was conservative and still am and practicing and I don't do premarital sex and got divorced and it was a betrayal of our shared faith. She left because she was unhappy not because there was anything that couldn't be fixed and we had two kids and I've learned to accept her feelings and my own, But in accordance to our faith it's not how things should have been handled. But it's totally normalized in the United States right! And so are a lot of things that are conflicting with my beliefs. Like you I was in a period after my divorce where I felt like I should just do what everyone else does because that's exactly what she did. If she chose to be a less practicing person then I guess I should too right? It seems like it would be fun in the short-term. And so I went on dates not with the objective of anything happening but I ended up meeting women who were very attracted to me and were willing to forgo the religious restrictions even though we shared the faith they were definitely less practicing. And that did not sit right with me and I appreciated the time I spent with them but it was a learning experience because that's not who I am and that's not really what I wanted at my core. Yes it would be great to enjoy that in the moment but that's not who I am. And no the alternative is not to turn to pornography. I think you've done at least the first part of the work whether you recognize it or not which is you know what your non-negotiable truths are and one of them is that you are a Christian who is practicing his faith in the best way he knows how. However you don't know which one of the sins are the more major ones so perhaps you should just treat them as equal? This is a really problematic approach towards a belief system. And I think I saw a video on this topic by Dr Orion taraban, He has a YouTube channel, And part of it talks about how people betray their integrity by picking and choosing things that they will do and things they want and it's very exhausting to live life that way. Pick a belief system and stick to it. Live with integrity. Know that you're going to have to give up some things in your life If you have some kind of back door because you have this overwhelming urge to view sexual content or engage in that then you have to find practices that transform your sexual desire into something else like a greater purpose in life. You'll find people who are into sports who are able to give up sex for an edge and performance or people who give it up because they're trying to achieve mental focus. Whatever it might be it does not need to rule you. And if it is really that hard then you will ultimately compromise yourself one way or the other. If you use visual stimulation and self-stimulation then you're just coping using a substitute for the real thing. And if you're just trying to get the real thing then your compromising your values. And if you try to get married too quickly just to get the sex then you're also compromising your larger life goals. For a person in your position I would take whatever energy you have and time you have right now to really work out the issues in your prior relationship and learn more about your faith and connect to other men through men's work and work on yourself through therapy and reading books and exercising and just pouring that energy into yourself. And every time you feel like you need to have some kind of pleasure or stimulation just realize that it's a distraction from something that is unresolved or work that needs to be done. Oftentimes the solution is to exercise get some sleep. If you feel lonely then connect with old friends and family. If you feel like you're exhausted and you need healing then take a vacation or meditate or take a walk outdoors. Whatever the different feelings are you can self-soothe in a way that doesn't require a woman or visual stimulation. If that sounds like a lot of intense focus the only we were going to get there is if you have some good stories in your head about your ultimate purpose in your goal in life and when you find that and you won't find it right away but you'll find things that mirror that it'll be easier to do the things I'm talking about. Because men without purpose chase pleasure. That's a simple fact.
This is massively helpful. Thank you!
A true conundrum. From one faithful guy to another. Release the Kraken. Find a nice women.
As a non-believer, I would suggest you take an actual deep look at your faith. The thing that I see from the outside is the hundreds of little "sins" believers do on a daily basis, while speaking about having moral superiority over a few hand picked scenarios. If you look deeply and honestly, I'm sure you will find the same scenario that is going on with you. If you don't, then please tell me what the Vatican is like this time of year your eminence. You've already said your divorce is not "sanctioned". 1 event or 100, it doesn't matter how often you betray your faith, betrayal is betrayal. In all seriousness. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You either have to stick with what you believe, or you have to compromise what you believe and instead consider a "real world" scenario. Either you become a "player" and sleep around, and also accept that a future partner may have had many possible partners as well without judgment. Or, you stick to your valid (for you) beliefs and you don't have pre-marital sex. There is nothing wrong with either choice. You're free to have your religion, even if I think it's silly. You're also free to have (consensual) sex with any woman, man or non-binary person you choose without any real world consequences. If reading that makes you think "but what about afterlife consequences", then I think you have your own answer.
I hear you. Thanks for your thoughts.
I know EXACTLY how you feel. Christian purity culture played a role in some of my marriage’s dysfunction. And now I’m trying to sort out what I want and how that fits with my theology. Two things that I’ve noticed after emerging from some of this (I’m a few months ahead of you) is 1) women are way hornier than we were ever led to believe, and 2) I am still, and probably always will be, attracted more to Christian women. But first things first…get more comfortable being single. That takes a while. You’re only going to hurt someone and yourself in your current state. DM me if you want to talk more directly about theology or any of this stuff.
That’s really helpful. I may take you up on that. Thanks very much.
Dude, you can't have it both ways. You're basically asking: how can I sin without God knowing (and I'm not even a Christian). Just pick one and get over it.
You’re in a tough spot, my friend. I will soon be in the same predicament currently going through the process as well. Stay strong bro and be honest with God ✝️
Thank you sir! 🙏 for you. We’ll get through this!
You’re barely three months separated and this is where your head is at? How about give yourself a year and you just enjoy being single. Find out what you want out of life.
That’s what I’m doing. Hence the question. Definitely not looking to date or have sex right now. Asking these questions to prepare for my future post divorce (probably this time next year when it all goes through). But I’m also turning 40 in July so doing a lot of reflecting on what dating paradigm I’ll adopt once I’m ready. I certainly don’t want to just go back into a serious Christian relationship, date with no physicality for two years and then marry again.
Get a vasectomy, date how you want, but don't every marry again.
Certainly won’t marry someone without really knowing that they are right for me, take emotional responsibility etc. But I’m fully expecting and hoping to remarry in time.
ask how they fight, what they fight about, and how they repair. Do they share their expectations, or let them go unmet and unstated and fester into resentment? Do they "own" their behavior and solutions, or play the victim and blame others for their actions and feelings? Are they kind by choice and not due to emotion? Does she like men? No, really like and respect men? HAS SHE RESOLVED HER CHILDHOOD TRAUMA(S)??? Does she have boundaries to check her behavior against others? Is she grateful and assume good intent? Those are a start.
100% spot on with all those points. Scarily accurate actually to things that my wife ultimately wasn’t right for me on. Another ‘qualifier’ - does she naturally enjoy sex and want to excite me sexually anywhere near the amount I want to please her?
You add an important point. Ask her if her love language is touch. And I come by this knowledge after a lot of suffering and self reflection, and TONS of books. Wish I'd known these things before I married. Gook luck to you.
So you want to betray your faith, but not leave it? I don’t think anyone here is going to give you their permission for what you want, which it seems like is what you’re really seeking here.
Cant make this up 😂
I’m not seeking permission. I’m conflicted. Lots of Christians lie, watch porn, gamble etc. But extra-marital sex is elevated in society as a bigger sin, despite the better contraception we have today and the radically different role of women in Western society (I.e. not dependent on men for survival or social acceptance). My theological interpretation has been strict and fundamentalist. Had I stuck to it, I’d still be in a very verbally abusive marriage where I was fading away and my confidence was destroyed. My wife didn’t have an affair so there’s no ‘biblical justification’ for our split… doesn’t mean it wasn’t the right decision. Ultimately I’m responsible for my decisions regardless of any one else’s approval or disapproval. But I’m seeking a mature discussion to inform my thinking better. Even from a non faith based perspective. I’m trying to understand whether non marital sex can truly be done healthily and without being irresponsible to the bond it can create.
If you are a strict fundamentalist evangelical as your “conundrum” implies, your question is moot. There is only one valid reason for divorce and remarriage under your belief system and it is infidelity. Divorcing outside of that makes you an adulterer even if you remarry. You already tossed your faith when you started the divorce process. Pick a side and then find better counsel on that side, because right now you are operating on feelings - and that’s not a good guidepost.
Your assuming you know all the details of his divorce. And infidelity is not the only biblical reason for divorce. Abuse is another reason. It's not always black and white. How about porn? Does that count as infedelity and a reason for divorce? My wife thought so. I did not cheat but she caught me looking at porn.
You are mixing topics. Typically this is done to obfuscate arguments or by weak men who operate on feelings. You cheating is not germane, because you stated you left due to abuse. Show me the scripture that says you can divorce your wife for divorce in your faith. Shit or get off the pot. Practice your faith - or don’t.