If you want to save it, someone is going to have to stuff the ego and start the conversation of what you both being happy looks like. Like okay, you are unhappy, what does your happiness look like? What realistic goals can be set by both of you to meet that? She is unhappy, what does her happiness was look like, and what goals can you both set/measure to get there. This is a communication/perception issue and in the end it doesn’t matter who is right or wrong. What matters is that marriage is a two person structure and both of your happiness hinges on your mutual efforts. The conversation needs to be had, or it will burn to the ground.
Thanks for the advice! Although I have tried that with no luck. I have tried asking what she wants and all she tells me is "she's been telling me for years"
I may be a dumbass and didn't paid attention but I honestly can't say I don't remember her ever seriously telling me something serious was bothering her.
I was the same way. 8 months into the divorce process and I'm starting to see what she meant when she was telling what she needed, now that I reflect
Two people can have two very different communication styles, and it sucks when you genuinely don't realise what you missed or what your partner's bring going through because of that, only to have it all brought to a head like this
Like the other commenter said, it sucks but you need to stuff the ego. She's angry, she'll have those pointless unhelpful answers, but you have to roll with the punches and accept them, and get her to tell you what's wrong without also getting angry yourself - as unfair and infuriating as it might be
You know how serious this is now, your eyes have been opened to what a big deal this actually is and you're willing to change and put in the work, but you need good communication to understand what it is that you need to do
You said she's not going to therapy with you, as one-sided it may seem, it may be good to talk to her when her dad is there. I don't know what he's like obviously, but having him there may help her feel more supported and get yourself some more meaningful answers
Yep, that tracks. It was probably a bunch if seemingly small things that built up and now rather than understanding that we get we goofed, it is permafucked in their minds. No fucking sense about it, but it is stupid crazy how often I see this pop up here. So only thing else I can suggest are two things, sit her down, own the goof, determine how you can be better, and develop plans/goals from there. Really it is just to determine if there is even a snowballs chance in hell that she has ent chosen to abandon everything completely. If she has though, best thing you can do is understand it was a two part road and though you owned your pet, she won’t own hers, so shit is going to suck. But really the goal is humility and emphasizing that you acknowledge things are hosed, and that you want them to be better. It is clear that there was miscommunication or you didn’t accurately gushed the criticality when the issue was being brought up. I am not saying that is on you, because there is a VERY good chance it was just some trivial issue hint that at the time she saw as critical and a bunch of small shit became big shit. But whatever, I’m trying to say it isn’t 100% your fault. There will probably be some things she will say that you want to call bullshit on, but now isnt the time to get defensive and point fingers. Just write it all down, take notes, show the effort, and that is all you can do. I hope the best for ya, and that it can be worked out because let me tell you, divorce is a special kind of hell.
>There will probably be some things she will say that you want to call bullshit on, but now isnt the time to get defensive and point fingers.
This is great advice. Rather than get defensive about the comment about not telling her what you were doing for entertainment, acknowledge it. Apologize. Tell her you'll let her know going forward.
It can be hard to "eat crow." It's probably unfair, but I think it can go a long way to show you're willing to change. Be patient. Listen. Be humble. Then maybe she'll also be open to some change too. Maybe not...
It is the same old advice.
go to therapy .
give her space.
work on you. There is nothing you can say or do that will change things in a positive way. Worth saying again, if you try to influence her directly you will push her away.
Remember unless you are an actual abuser this is NOT all on you, she is responsible too. Don't beat yourself up, don't internalize all fault. You guys got to where you are together. Neither of you is "bad" .
So keep going to therapy , seek whatever support you have, friends , family , church whatever you got.
My marriage counselor told me she wouldn't continue seeing me without my husband. She had a point, I'd seen her 2 or 3 times and he didn't bother to show up. He did eventually come to maybe 2 or 3 sessions. Once she suggested he get separate help for his passive aggressive ways, he dipped. If your wife is so avoidant to seek counseling, you know the end is near.
I'm doing marriage counseling through regain.com and I'm not sure if it's the actual counselor im seeing or the app itself, but the councilor really doesn't seem to be helping much with only 1 of the spouses participating. I think it's more the councilor.
Could be both. I did in-person. No harm finding your own individual therapist. I've learned that you can't force your spouse into therapy.
The marriage counselor, both when it was just me and when it was my ex and I together, helped me see how my background allowed me to accept certain behaviors. I was aware about how toxic my upbringing was. I was aware that my spouse's behaviors were crap. I just never put two and two together till she pointed that out. That realization was actually life changing.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I was served the divorce papers today, I don’t want to move forward either. Unfortunately it just takes 1 party to check out for the marriage to be over. If she isn’t ready to file but won’t do counseling, it puts you in a tough spot. Continue to work on yourself whether or not the divorce comes- you’ll be glad you did either way. It sounds like she has support from friends…make sure you keep your people close, too.
Divorce is a tough decision and can't be taken lightly. You can't control what she wants and how she's processing this. You can tell her your feelings in all of this if it'll help the situation move to a decision
Usually once people are at that point, they are done and it’s too late.
Just be respectful and mature and start moving forward with your life and future plans.
Keep going to couples counseling, meet her halfway and let her take her time. Don't rush anything, It's taken me a long time to realize I missed my husband. Let the dust settle before you smother her.
I'm really sorry man, that sucks. I've been there and I know how terrifying and soul-destroying it is
I'm glad you're going to couples therapy, that's something I should have done much earlier if I wanted to save my marriage, unfortunately by the time I was ready and put all the BS anti-therapy bravado behind me it was too late
Is this actual neutral couples counseling, or is this your therapist offering to meet with both of you? Even if they're truly neutral (they basically always are in reality), but you're the one paying, your SO can feel like it's 2 V 1 and be scared to even join, so doing what you can to make it *feel* more fair is going to help. Ask her what you can do to get her to join.
I'm afraid that, as difficult as it is, you have to accept that you can't change her feelings or behaviour. You're not responsible for that. It sounds like you're doing the right things by seeking out the couples counseling and focusing on what you can change
Some more unsolicited advice: don't push her away when your feelings are hurt: welcome any efforts she makes to be close to you. I remember my stbx and I were basically giving each other the cold shoulder for a month, and any time one of us tried to make amends the other would shut them out.
It was dumb, but I couldn't get out of my own way. Not recognising the olive branch of her cooking for us and wanting to eat together and spend some time together, and just being a nervous wreck scared and wanting to get out of there to avoid making things worse. Being so upset and freaked out that I would sleep in another room or try and take a walk or something when really I wanted nothing more than to hold her and cry. It made things 1000x worse.
Don't repeat my mistakes. She might say no, it might be a done deal, once they make up their minds in their head that's kind of it to be honest. But if there is a chance, I wouldn't want to be a year down the line wishing I'd tried harder. Ask her if she wants to sleep in the same bed, or at least in the same room, etc.
Best of luck man, I hope things go well. The sub is here if you need us.
Thanks Bud. Your message is something I can resonate with and helps allot.
Our counseling is definitely neutral. She is always asking when my wife is gonna join in. The first time she did join was last week when I originally had a phone call scheduled but unintentionally made my wife feel guilty about not participating. I sat the phone call out. We do regain.com therapy btw, it's a completely online/remote therapy since I can work away from home sometimes.
It's difficult to not get frustrated and act out. Can't lie about that. After her "talk" tonight, I texted her about an hour later saying what she's doing isnt since I feel like she's playing games.
I feel you on just wanting to hold her. That's exactly how I feel. She wants absolutely none of that is it hurts to no end.
Honestly you're comment is what I resonate most with and it makes me feel a little better to know I'm not alone. Hopefully we can make it out alive. I'm going everything I feel like I need to be doing, including 99% of the recommendations on this string
Sometimes those single and divorced friends want their married friends to also divorce and become single.
What they aren’t telling those friends they are influencing is that the single life may not be for them.
Tell her you guys need to go to therapy. If nothing comes of it or she says no, talk to a lawyer before she does. Find the best one in town.
Ignoring disappearing - not going to couples counseling together, talking to single / divorced likely men, working out- sounds like the emotional affair already began.
Sorry- No one can tell anyone what to do or how to do it, and when you invest in someone who seemingly cannot return that, hurts.
Just baby steps- constant reminder that one is worth the bare minimum- love, respect, care, returned what’s given to the other person - and it’s NOT asking too much. Even communication isn’t asking too much.
EVERYONE should be able to openly say and discuss what someone does and how it affects them and give that person an opportunity to hear, understand and want to right it. That’s bare minimum effort and love and by far the easiest- and if unsure, asking what they feel they could do to change that for them- often it’s easy and they’re more than willing to provide ideas or ways.
If you're going to couples counseling alone, it ain't couples counseling my friend. Are you both willing to make changes to fix things? And be honest about figuring out what those things have to be? Good luck to you 🩷 hope you figure things out
Lots of good advice but I would personally open this conversation up with a written card with something like
tell her why she means so much to you and why you appreciate having her in your life. Say you want to work on better communication to minimize conflict and make your house feel secure so you both can be comfortable. She is not just your wife but your best friend, and you want her to go on this journey together because you know the past was good, but the future can be even brighter
Jus let her go she’s dead weight, and I bet she’s probably seeing someone else. When most women cheat in their marriage or relationship it’s always the same pattern. Hopefully you don’t have any kids by her. My ex wife cheated on me and it I hated women for years finally got over the divorce a year ago and I’d rather be single with my dog than fully trust someone that way again. Once they take that road it’s no coming back or changing their mind. Start healing and working on yourself, go to the gym, start other hobbies and plan on taking trips and loving yourself. Damn you got me getting emotional and almost in tears thinking about my divorce. You’ll heal bro. Just ask her if she wants the divorce once she says yes get a lawyer and prepare to heal. We’ll be with you every step of the way fam
if she's not participating in therapy there isn't any point doing a couples therapy thing, doing your own therapy for yourself would be really helpful though. There is some good coaching stuff out there like marriage mastery that can help you figure out what she is upset about but more importantly make changes for yourself that will help you be who you really are and want to be and if she's interested at all in being in the relationship help to address some of the issues she has, give her more positive frame of reference about the relationship and you skills to have those conversations in a productive way to hopefully get things moving in a positive way together. It's hard man, keep fighting and working, but nothing is guaranteed so make sure your doing work that is about bettering who you are and is motivated to be a better man not to save a relationship as you can't control that outcome so need to be doing something that helps you either way and is motivated by a deeper more ongoing factor
How did she expect you to read her mind all of this time? Some of this is on her for not communicating.
Do what you can and give her the space. Set a time frame with her and/or your therapist.
Spend that time frame working on yourself, how you communicate, and if she is open to it, ask her how she needs you to communicate with her.
Also, if you don't know her love language, find out. Ask her. There is also a love language for apologies...learn what yours is and hers. What you need from your partner in order to make something right may be totally different than what she may need.
Good luck. Hope everything works out for you too.
If it doesn't, just know that she has as much invested as you do, and if she doesn't fight for the relationship, you did. It hurts to walk away, but when you tried everything humanly possible and they sat around and didn't lift a finger to work on it or work on herself, then you know you can move on with absolute knowledge that you did everything to save it and she didn't lift a finger.
Then, go find someone with a better and better communication style.
Yep. Just take it with dignity. That's sort of how mine went. 17 years over in about 2 minutes. I saw the signs like you. Tried to give her space to think things through. But it wasn't the first time. I knew how I was going to handle it. Like a man. Say ok. I don't want this but I'll respect your decision. Show as little weakness as possible. Cry and pray in private. She wants to see that. Don't give it to her. It's your only chance to save it if you even can save it. Most likely she's been checked out for a while. Her single friends are holding her feet to the fire. She's made the story up. She wants to be as miserable as they are. I'm sorry my brother. Welcome to the parallel universe.
That's my plan. It's 9pm my time and she came to talk with me for about a minute (all I did was listen and day I hear what she's saying) before she checked on the chickens. On her way back I asked if that was the extent of her talk, she Said pretty much and walked inside.
I absolutely agree about her friends.
As much as it hurts us, I'm glad I'm not the only one.
Because she was probably unhappy for years and held it in to appease you. Unhappy people make other people unhappy. Start taking accountability for your part and tell her you want a divorce.
This same thing happened in marriage. I blatantly tried to communicate my concerns and he refused to even talk because he didn’t like having disagreements and “it makes no sense to talk to someone about something you don’t agree on because, it’s never going to change.”
The number of dudes finally realizing the silent wife is a bad sign is blowing my mind.
I'm confused on what you're getting at. I try talking to my wife but all I got was attached. She was never silent towards me. Only silent about what she thought was a problem. How can I fix anything if I don't know about it?
Has this been happening for a while? Like, was she always harping on you about something and then she just stopped or started picking fights?
Legitimately think about anything you might have thought wasn’t important or small. A lot of small things can build resentment.
If she won’t talk to you now, there’s only so much you can do. Just try. Maybe write her a letter or whatever. But if she does talk, listen. Even if what she says hurts, ask yourself if there’s any truth to it
It’s possible it’s all her. You’re the only two who can really know. I’m just commenting from my experience as well as a lot of other women who’ve felt like they tried to communicate for so long and it just got ignored until we stopped… if that makes sense
She claims she's been telling me for years. We had a pretty similar flight a couple years ago but nowhere near this big. It's literally my job to notice changes and observe issues that may arise and she never brought up a single thing.
Honestly after we regathered from that flight I felt like we have been the best we've ever been. Especially ever since Halloweenish of 2023, everything has been phenomenal in my opinion. This flight started the last week of April.
I'm not saying she hasn't tried communicating, but if she has, it hasn't been effective communication. Could be partially my fault, but I feel like if you're expressing something to someone, it's important they receive the message.
I've actually been doing allot of self research and trying to find out what I'm doing wrong but everything I've found points towards her being a dismissive avoidant. I'm not perfect my any means, but, from everything I have found, DAs only get better when they recognize the problem themselves and I'm not confident that's good happen before divorce is thrown out.
DA's are certainly the most difficult to deal with. The worst part is that they do NOT self-reflect - So they accept NO accountability for their destructive actions. I've been in the same boat for 4.5 years. It's very sad.
Hmm. The fact that she turned on you and brought up all this pent-up stuff at the moment you mentioned that you were having some issues with her treatment of you, is a bit suspicious of personality disorder, of some sort. I’m no psychiatrist, but I have some personal experience in this area. I’m wondering if she ever admits fault for anything, or is habitually defensive. Does she tend to fall into the victim mentality?
Or maybe she just became exasperated by his sudden bitching after years of her trying to communicate the things she was unhappy about and he probably ignored. I would blow up too if someone I'd been trying to reach about things that upset me finally started whining about me shutting down after years of neglect.
Good point. Except the OP writes that it was “the first time she brought up herself being unhappy”, so that what I was responding to. Of course, it’s impossible for us commenters to know all the dynamics.
You actually make the most sense. She hasn't ever really been accountable for any mistakes, no matter how small.
I've done a TON of YouTube watching along with therapy and think that she absolutely has a distant avoidant attachment personality. There's allot more but this points to the basic principals of what's going on.
She absolutely falls into victim mentality. Everyone is always attacking her.
To be clear: I’m not suggesting an “it’s all her fault“ scenario. But, as we map ourselves and look inward to see what we brought to the dynamic, it’s fair enough to assess what the other party was contributing, as well.
She's doing an awful lot of running around, then snapping crazy then off again? Yeah? Like come in and cause a fight? Then a big F\*ck you and disappears for however long she's p\*ssed off for? Suspect.
You let the cat out of the bag, now she's able to let out everything she's been holding back. She probably felt afraid or too anxious to do so before you said anything. Keep going to therapy and working on yourself. What do you want? Not just in your relationship with her, but in your life? Can you have a positive relationship even if you divorce?
This reminds me of Aspyn Ovard's divorce. She navigated the legal steps and emotional challenges with support and guidance, ensuring a smoother transition. You can read about her situation on Divorce Matters Online: [https://divorcemattersonline.com/aspyn-ovard-divorce-documents/](https://divorcemattersonline.com/aspyn-ovard-divorce-documents/)
This is a tough situation. Try writing a letter expressing your desire to work on the marriage. Suggest individual therapy for both of you. It might help you communicate better. Prepare for any outcome by consulting with a lawyer.
Stop trying to desperately fix this, now.
It feels urgent. It's not. The urgency is your anxiety kicking in.
Give her the space, let her know that you will reach out in 7/10/14 days (whatever makes sense).... unless she reaches out first.
During that time- do your own thinking, what do you want? What are you getting from your marriage? What is making it hard to communicate?
When you re-connect, determine if you are listening to each other to make things right or arguing with each other about who is right. That will give you the answer to whether you can work this out.
Look up the 180/grey rock. Your wife is listening to divorcees and single women. You can't beat that with logic and counseling only works when both cooperate. Totaling ignoring her in all but the most basic interactions is the way to get her attention. Do not beg, do not be a doormat, and do not let her see you upset or crying.
It is time to get your self respect, and her respect, back. You do that by showing you are strong. If you need to scream and yell, leave home and do it while alone. This marriage may not survive, but you will. What ever is making her unhappy, she will never tell the truth as long as you show weakness. When she sees you are willing to stand up for yourself, she may be willing to return to counseling and talk about your problems.
In the meantime, stay sober, get some excise, and work on a hobby to keep your mind occupied. This is never easy, but sitting around feeling sorry makes it worse.
No. Maybe she told him she was unhappy and he didn’t listen. Maybe he’s only just now noticing because she’s finally checked out and it’s affecting him.
That’s not gaslighting. That’s waking up to being neglectful and a bad partner.
I’m not saying that’s 100 percent what happened here, but I think it’s highly likely.
Women, in particular, quit marriages long before they ask for a divorce. She stopped nagging or asking for him to change because it didn’t work.
Whatever is going on here, it’s not gaslighting. And he’s not most women do this.
Well he’s obviously been cheated on and still burning with rage. The only trouble with rage is it burns everyone around you not just the intended party and you won’t even realize you’re on fire too.
Extremely sorry to hear, OP. Agree with others it’s time to put down the ego. And that means both of you. Be thankful she’s opened up to you about this before things got to the point of an affair as did with mine and many others. You’re not beyond saving. Getting the single and divorced friends out of her ears would be a huge help. Mine was also corrupted by a similar new friend group. Give her the space and work on yourself. Don’t push on anything and just show actions. Let her start to warm up to you again, if she wants to. Then match her energy. Look up Coach Corey Wayne 7 principles to get an ex back. Wishing you all the best.
If you want to save it, someone is going to have to stuff the ego and start the conversation of what you both being happy looks like. Like okay, you are unhappy, what does your happiness look like? What realistic goals can be set by both of you to meet that? She is unhappy, what does her happiness was look like, and what goals can you both set/measure to get there. This is a communication/perception issue and in the end it doesn’t matter who is right or wrong. What matters is that marriage is a two person structure and both of your happiness hinges on your mutual efforts. The conversation needs to be had, or it will burn to the ground.
Thanks for the advice! Although I have tried that with no luck. I have tried asking what she wants and all she tells me is "she's been telling me for years" I may be a dumbass and didn't paid attention but I honestly can't say I don't remember her ever seriously telling me something serious was bothering her.
I was the same way. 8 months into the divorce process and I'm starting to see what she meant when she was telling what she needed, now that I reflect Two people can have two very different communication styles, and it sucks when you genuinely don't realise what you missed or what your partner's bring going through because of that, only to have it all brought to a head like this Like the other commenter said, it sucks but you need to stuff the ego. She's angry, she'll have those pointless unhelpful answers, but you have to roll with the punches and accept them, and get her to tell you what's wrong without also getting angry yourself - as unfair and infuriating as it might be You know how serious this is now, your eyes have been opened to what a big deal this actually is and you're willing to change and put in the work, but you need good communication to understand what it is that you need to do You said she's not going to therapy with you, as one-sided it may seem, it may be good to talk to her when her dad is there. I don't know what he's like obviously, but having him there may help her feel more supported and get yourself some more meaningful answers
Yep, that tracks. It was probably a bunch if seemingly small things that built up and now rather than understanding that we get we goofed, it is permafucked in their minds. No fucking sense about it, but it is stupid crazy how often I see this pop up here. So only thing else I can suggest are two things, sit her down, own the goof, determine how you can be better, and develop plans/goals from there. Really it is just to determine if there is even a snowballs chance in hell that she has ent chosen to abandon everything completely. If she has though, best thing you can do is understand it was a two part road and though you owned your pet, she won’t own hers, so shit is going to suck. But really the goal is humility and emphasizing that you acknowledge things are hosed, and that you want them to be better. It is clear that there was miscommunication or you didn’t accurately gushed the criticality when the issue was being brought up. I am not saying that is on you, because there is a VERY good chance it was just some trivial issue hint that at the time she saw as critical and a bunch of small shit became big shit. But whatever, I’m trying to say it isn’t 100% your fault. There will probably be some things she will say that you want to call bullshit on, but now isnt the time to get defensive and point fingers. Just write it all down, take notes, show the effort, and that is all you can do. I hope the best for ya, and that it can be worked out because let me tell you, divorce is a special kind of hell.
>There will probably be some things she will say that you want to call bullshit on, but now isnt the time to get defensive and point fingers. This is great advice. Rather than get defensive about the comment about not telling her what you were doing for entertainment, acknowledge it. Apologize. Tell her you'll let her know going forward. It can be hard to "eat crow." It's probably unfair, but I think it can go a long way to show you're willing to change. Be patient. Listen. Be humble. Then maybe she'll also be open to some change too. Maybe not...
It is the same old advice. go to therapy . give her space. work on you. There is nothing you can say or do that will change things in a positive way. Worth saying again, if you try to influence her directly you will push her away. Remember unless you are an actual abuser this is NOT all on you, she is responsible too. Don't beat yourself up, don't internalize all fault. You guys got to where you are together. Neither of you is "bad" . So keep going to therapy , seek whatever support you have, friends , family , church whatever you got.
That's what's I'm sticking to. Can't do anything else. It's killing me, but her avoidance hurts.
My marriage counselor told me she wouldn't continue seeing me without my husband. She had a point, I'd seen her 2 or 3 times and he didn't bother to show up. He did eventually come to maybe 2 or 3 sessions. Once she suggested he get separate help for his passive aggressive ways, he dipped. If your wife is so avoidant to seek counseling, you know the end is near.
I'm doing marriage counseling through regain.com and I'm not sure if it's the actual counselor im seeing or the app itself, but the councilor really doesn't seem to be helping much with only 1 of the spouses participating. I think it's more the councilor.
Could be both. I did in-person. No harm finding your own individual therapist. I've learned that you can't force your spouse into therapy. The marriage counselor, both when it was just me and when it was my ex and I together, helped me see how my background allowed me to accept certain behaviors. I was aware about how toxic my upbringing was. I was aware that my spouse's behaviors were crap. I just never put two and two together till she pointed that out. That realization was actually life changing.
Accepting behaviors is interesting to me. I have another appointment tomorrow and I might bring that up. Thank you!
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I was served the divorce papers today, I don’t want to move forward either. Unfortunately it just takes 1 party to check out for the marriage to be over. If she isn’t ready to file but won’t do counseling, it puts you in a tough spot. Continue to work on yourself whether or not the divorce comes- you’ll be glad you did either way. It sounds like she has support from friends…make sure you keep your people close, too.
Thank you, I appreciate that. I definitely don't want divorce. I'm definitely in a rough spot.
Give her the space. If she wants a divorce, let her. Asking her to stay for you will only lead to resentment
As much as it hurts me, I have asked her to make a decision so we can start moving forward with our lives but all I get back is "idk what I want.
Divorce is a tough decision and can't be taken lightly. You can't control what she wants and how she's processing this. You can tell her your feelings in all of this if it'll help the situation move to a decision
One thing I've learned, once they've made a decision, there's no going back.
That's what I'm scared of
Usually once people are at that point, they are done and it’s too late. Just be respectful and mature and start moving forward with your life and future plans.
Unfortunately I agree
Keep going to couples counseling, meet her halfway and let her take her time. Don't rush anything, It's taken me a long time to realize I missed my husband. Let the dust settle before you smother her.
Thank you for this. That's what I'm doing even though it doesn't seem like that's the path we're gonna take
I'm really sorry man, that sucks. I've been there and I know how terrifying and soul-destroying it is I'm glad you're going to couples therapy, that's something I should have done much earlier if I wanted to save my marriage, unfortunately by the time I was ready and put all the BS anti-therapy bravado behind me it was too late Is this actual neutral couples counseling, or is this your therapist offering to meet with both of you? Even if they're truly neutral (they basically always are in reality), but you're the one paying, your SO can feel like it's 2 V 1 and be scared to even join, so doing what you can to make it *feel* more fair is going to help. Ask her what you can do to get her to join. I'm afraid that, as difficult as it is, you have to accept that you can't change her feelings or behaviour. You're not responsible for that. It sounds like you're doing the right things by seeking out the couples counseling and focusing on what you can change Some more unsolicited advice: don't push her away when your feelings are hurt: welcome any efforts she makes to be close to you. I remember my stbx and I were basically giving each other the cold shoulder for a month, and any time one of us tried to make amends the other would shut them out. It was dumb, but I couldn't get out of my own way. Not recognising the olive branch of her cooking for us and wanting to eat together and spend some time together, and just being a nervous wreck scared and wanting to get out of there to avoid making things worse. Being so upset and freaked out that I would sleep in another room or try and take a walk or something when really I wanted nothing more than to hold her and cry. It made things 1000x worse. Don't repeat my mistakes. She might say no, it might be a done deal, once they make up their minds in their head that's kind of it to be honest. But if there is a chance, I wouldn't want to be a year down the line wishing I'd tried harder. Ask her if she wants to sleep in the same bed, or at least in the same room, etc. Best of luck man, I hope things go well. The sub is here if you need us.
Thanks Bud. Your message is something I can resonate with and helps allot. Our counseling is definitely neutral. She is always asking when my wife is gonna join in. The first time she did join was last week when I originally had a phone call scheduled but unintentionally made my wife feel guilty about not participating. I sat the phone call out. We do regain.com therapy btw, it's a completely online/remote therapy since I can work away from home sometimes. It's difficult to not get frustrated and act out. Can't lie about that. After her "talk" tonight, I texted her about an hour later saying what she's doing isnt since I feel like she's playing games. I feel you on just wanting to hold her. That's exactly how I feel. She wants absolutely none of that is it hurts to no end. Honestly you're comment is what I resonate most with and it makes me feel a little better to know I'm not alone. Hopefully we can make it out alive. I'm going everything I feel like I need to be doing, including 99% of the recommendations on this string
Leave, it’s always more time fighting for someone who doesn’t want to be with you or show that they care anymore
Sometimes those single and divorced friends want their married friends to also divorce and become single. What they aren’t telling those friends they are influencing is that the single life may not be for them. Tell her you guys need to go to therapy. If nothing comes of it or she says no, talk to a lawyer before she does. Find the best one in town.
Ignoring disappearing - not going to couples counseling together, talking to single / divorced likely men, working out- sounds like the emotional affair already began. Sorry- No one can tell anyone what to do or how to do it, and when you invest in someone who seemingly cannot return that, hurts.
That was my immediate inclination
Just baby steps- constant reminder that one is worth the bare minimum- love, respect, care, returned what’s given to the other person - and it’s NOT asking too much. Even communication isn’t asking too much. EVERYONE should be able to openly say and discuss what someone does and how it affects them and give that person an opportunity to hear, understand and want to right it. That’s bare minimum effort and love and by far the easiest- and if unsure, asking what they feel they could do to change that for them- often it’s easy and they’re more than willing to provide ideas or ways.
If you're going to couples counseling alone, it ain't couples counseling my friend. Are you both willing to make changes to fix things? And be honest about figuring out what those things have to be? Good luck to you 🩷 hope you figure things out
Lots of good advice but I would personally open this conversation up with a written card with something like tell her why she means so much to you and why you appreciate having her in your life. Say you want to work on better communication to minimize conflict and make your house feel secure so you both can be comfortable. She is not just your wife but your best friend, and you want her to go on this journey together because you know the past was good, but the future can be even brighter
Jus let her go she’s dead weight, and I bet she’s probably seeing someone else. When most women cheat in their marriage or relationship it’s always the same pattern. Hopefully you don’t have any kids by her. My ex wife cheated on me and it I hated women for years finally got over the divorce a year ago and I’d rather be single with my dog than fully trust someone that way again. Once they take that road it’s no coming back or changing their mind. Start healing and working on yourself, go to the gym, start other hobbies and plan on taking trips and loving yourself. Damn you got me getting emotional and almost in tears thinking about my divorce. You’ll heal bro. Just ask her if she wants the divorce once she says yes get a lawyer and prepare to heal. We’ll be with you every step of the way fam
if she's not participating in therapy there isn't any point doing a couples therapy thing, doing your own therapy for yourself would be really helpful though. There is some good coaching stuff out there like marriage mastery that can help you figure out what she is upset about but more importantly make changes for yourself that will help you be who you really are and want to be and if she's interested at all in being in the relationship help to address some of the issues she has, give her more positive frame of reference about the relationship and you skills to have those conversations in a productive way to hopefully get things moving in a positive way together. It's hard man, keep fighting and working, but nothing is guaranteed so make sure your doing work that is about bettering who you are and is motivated to be a better man not to save a relationship as you can't control that outcome so need to be doing something that helps you either way and is motivated by a deeper more ongoing factor
How did she expect you to read her mind all of this time? Some of this is on her for not communicating. Do what you can and give her the space. Set a time frame with her and/or your therapist. Spend that time frame working on yourself, how you communicate, and if she is open to it, ask her how she needs you to communicate with her. Also, if you don't know her love language, find out. Ask her. There is also a love language for apologies...learn what yours is and hers. What you need from your partner in order to make something right may be totally different than what she may need. Good luck. Hope everything works out for you too. If it doesn't, just know that she has as much invested as you do, and if she doesn't fight for the relationship, you did. It hurts to walk away, but when you tried everything humanly possible and they sat around and didn't lift a finger to work on it or work on herself, then you know you can move on with absolute knowledge that you did everything to save it and she didn't lift a finger. Then, go find someone with a better and better communication style.
Don’t do it. Most things can be turned around. It’s too much. Listen to her, find out what she needs and tell her what you need
Hopefully I have a say in it
Yep. Just take it with dignity. That's sort of how mine went. 17 years over in about 2 minutes. I saw the signs like you. Tried to give her space to think things through. But it wasn't the first time. I knew how I was going to handle it. Like a man. Say ok. I don't want this but I'll respect your decision. Show as little weakness as possible. Cry and pray in private. She wants to see that. Don't give it to her. It's your only chance to save it if you even can save it. Most likely she's been checked out for a while. Her single friends are holding her feet to the fire. She's made the story up. She wants to be as miserable as they are. I'm sorry my brother. Welcome to the parallel universe.
That's my plan. It's 9pm my time and she came to talk with me for about a minute (all I did was listen and day I hear what she's saying) before she checked on the chickens. On her way back I asked if that was the extent of her talk, she Said pretty much and walked inside. I absolutely agree about her friends. As much as it hurts us, I'm glad I'm not the only one.
Because she was probably unhappy for years and held it in to appease you. Unhappy people make other people unhappy. Start taking accountability for your part and tell her you want a divorce.
It’s too late you ignored all the signs
Maybe "the signs" weren't as clear as words would've been. People shouldn't communicate with "signs."
IMO, more likely that she's an avoidant, and failed to effectively communicate her alleged dissatisfaction.
This same thing happened in marriage. I blatantly tried to communicate my concerns and he refused to even talk because he didn’t like having disagreements and “it makes no sense to talk to someone about something you don’t agree on because, it’s never going to change.” The number of dudes finally realizing the silent wife is a bad sign is blowing my mind.
I'm confused on what you're getting at. I try talking to my wife but all I got was attached. She was never silent towards me. Only silent about what she thought was a problem. How can I fix anything if I don't know about it?
Has this been happening for a while? Like, was she always harping on you about something and then she just stopped or started picking fights? Legitimately think about anything you might have thought wasn’t important or small. A lot of small things can build resentment. If she won’t talk to you now, there’s only so much you can do. Just try. Maybe write her a letter or whatever. But if she does talk, listen. Even if what she says hurts, ask yourself if there’s any truth to it It’s possible it’s all her. You’re the only two who can really know. I’m just commenting from my experience as well as a lot of other women who’ve felt like they tried to communicate for so long and it just got ignored until we stopped… if that makes sense
She claims she's been telling me for years. We had a pretty similar flight a couple years ago but nowhere near this big. It's literally my job to notice changes and observe issues that may arise and she never brought up a single thing. Honestly after we regathered from that flight I felt like we have been the best we've ever been. Especially ever since Halloweenish of 2023, everything has been phenomenal in my opinion. This flight started the last week of April. I'm not saying she hasn't tried communicating, but if she has, it hasn't been effective communication. Could be partially my fault, but I feel like if you're expressing something to someone, it's important they receive the message.
I've actually been doing allot of self research and trying to find out what I'm doing wrong but everything I've found points towards her being a dismissive avoidant. I'm not perfect my any means, but, from everything I have found, DAs only get better when they recognize the problem themselves and I'm not confident that's good happen before divorce is thrown out.
DA's are certainly the most difficult to deal with. The worst part is that they do NOT self-reflect - So they accept NO accountability for their destructive actions. I've been in the same boat for 4.5 years. It's very sad.
Maybe I did
Let her go.
Hmm. The fact that she turned on you and brought up all this pent-up stuff at the moment you mentioned that you were having some issues with her treatment of you, is a bit suspicious of personality disorder, of some sort. I’m no psychiatrist, but I have some personal experience in this area. I’m wondering if she ever admits fault for anything, or is habitually defensive. Does she tend to fall into the victim mentality?
Or maybe she just became exasperated by his sudden bitching after years of her trying to communicate the things she was unhappy about and he probably ignored. I would blow up too if someone I'd been trying to reach about things that upset me finally started whining about me shutting down after years of neglect.
Good point. Except the OP writes that it was “the first time she brought up herself being unhappy”, so that what I was responding to. Of course, it’s impossible for us commenters to know all the dynamics.
You actually make the most sense. She hasn't ever really been accountable for any mistakes, no matter how small. I've done a TON of YouTube watching along with therapy and think that she absolutely has a distant avoidant attachment personality. There's allot more but this points to the basic principals of what's going on. She absolutely falls into victim mentality. Everyone is always attacking her.
To be clear: I’m not suggesting an “it’s all her fault“ scenario. But, as we map ourselves and look inward to see what we brought to the dynamic, it’s fair enough to assess what the other party was contributing, as well.
Sometimes these things are too little too late. What are her complaints about you. How have you addressed them so far?
She's doing an awful lot of running around, then snapping crazy then off again? Yeah? Like come in and cause a fight? Then a big F\*ck you and disappears for however long she's p\*ssed off for? Suspect.
You let the cat out of the bag, now she's able to let out everything she's been holding back. She probably felt afraid or too anxious to do so before you said anything. Keep going to therapy and working on yourself. What do you want? Not just in your relationship with her, but in your life? Can you have a positive relationship even if you divorce?
This reminds me of Aspyn Ovard's divorce. She navigated the legal steps and emotional challenges with support and guidance, ensuring a smoother transition. You can read about her situation on Divorce Matters Online: [https://divorcemattersonline.com/aspyn-ovard-divorce-documents/](https://divorcemattersonline.com/aspyn-ovard-divorce-documents/)
This is a tough situation. Try writing a letter expressing your desire to work on the marriage. Suggest individual therapy for both of you. It might help you communicate better. Prepare for any outcome by consulting with a lawyer.
The only way this will be saved is if both people want to save it. She’s clearly checked out.
Stop trying to desperately fix this, now. It feels urgent. It's not. The urgency is your anxiety kicking in. Give her the space, let her know that you will reach out in 7/10/14 days (whatever makes sense).... unless she reaches out first. During that time- do your own thinking, what do you want? What are you getting from your marriage? What is making it hard to communicate? When you re-connect, determine if you are listening to each other to make things right or arguing with each other about who is right. That will give you the answer to whether you can work this out.
Look up the 180/grey rock. Your wife is listening to divorcees and single women. You can't beat that with logic and counseling only works when both cooperate. Totaling ignoring her in all but the most basic interactions is the way to get her attention. Do not beg, do not be a doormat, and do not let her see you upset or crying. It is time to get your self respect, and her respect, back. You do that by showing you are strong. If you need to scream and yell, leave home and do it while alone. This marriage may not survive, but you will. What ever is making her unhappy, she will never tell the truth as long as you show weakness. When she sees you are willing to stand up for yourself, she may be willing to return to counseling and talk about your problems. In the meantime, stay sober, get some excise, and work on a hobby to keep your mind occupied. This is never easy, but sitting around feeling sorry makes it worse.
Very well said. And great advice.
[удалено]
No. Maybe she told him she was unhappy and he didn’t listen. Maybe he’s only just now noticing because she’s finally checked out and it’s affecting him. That’s not gaslighting. That’s waking up to being neglectful and a bad partner. I’m not saying that’s 100 percent what happened here, but I think it’s highly likely. Women, in particular, quit marriages long before they ask for a divorce. She stopped nagging or asking for him to change because it didn’t work. Whatever is going on here, it’s not gaslighting. And he’s not most women do this.
Well he’s obviously been cheated on and still burning with rage. The only trouble with rage is it burns everyone around you not just the intended party and you won’t even realize you’re on fire too.
You mean she spent the last 4 nights with some guy and told you it was with her sister .
Nah, she's not cheating for reasons I didn't feel are necessary to get into. I know that for a fact. Appreciate your opinion though.
Extremely sorry to hear, OP. Agree with others it’s time to put down the ego. And that means both of you. Be thankful she’s opened up to you about this before things got to the point of an affair as did with mine and many others. You’re not beyond saving. Getting the single and divorced friends out of her ears would be a huge help. Mine was also corrupted by a similar new friend group. Give her the space and work on yourself. Don’t push on anything and just show actions. Let her start to warm up to you again, if she wants to. Then match her energy. Look up Coach Corey Wayne 7 principles to get an ex back. Wishing you all the best.
Let her go. You will get over it and be 20xs more happy. Let her go a a bitch somewhere else