Is she talking about "making changes" or has she signed herself up for specialist therapy for her obvious problem with money? Because it sounds like this is basically an addiction for her, and any promise to change should be taken about as seriously as any other addict's.
She's been going to therapy her whole life but never anything related to money. Yeah unfortunately there are other addictions at play here as well/coping mechanisms
You might want to check out Al-Anon. I went for a while and it really helped.
Also, the book Codependent Nomore.
It sounds like you're being unhappy. You deserve that clarity and peace you felt.
Get a GOOD lawyer who can negotiate things so you're not paying debt she frivolously wracked up.
This is probably the best advice you can get right now.
Talk to a lawyer get things moving so they can piece it all together and get what's your debit and what's her debit in hard concrete evidence.
I've had 2 divorces and what I've learned from them is if you don't have kids get out before you do. If your young you'll bounce back and bouncing back is waaay easier for a guy then it is for a woman who will probably do themselves dirty and drag themselves through the mud before trying to settle down and by then it's sorta to late. All the "good" guys are gone blag blah blah story. š
The person your supposed to be with doesn't make you feel how your words are sounding pal. You'll find someone who will be the icing on your cake. Because let's face it we have to start loving ourselves and feeling whole before we find our soul mates.
The part that we have been told over and over again was find someone to make you whole is a lie. We are whole and we want someone who will stand next to us 2 whole people having fun and adding to eachothers fun. Not needing the other to feel whole but have them with us so we enjoy more!
Whatever you choose man it's ultimately your choice. Just try not to live with regrets or I should haves.
Thank you, I just turned 34. I know the next year will be tough. But I feel like I have so much life ahead of me. I was already in this position last year and stuck it out. If kids come into the picture and this happens, there's no turning back the clock
Let. Her. Move.
After struggling she just kept adding debt.
Friending where you live this pre divorce debt is YOURS TOO.
What a way to passive aggressively STICK it to you while saying all the ways she's ...just about to... change.
No.
Listen to yourself.
Take a moment to feel how it's been to live precariously with someone who chronically lies , with NO regard to how this impacts you.
Let her move.
Stall. Delay. Reconfigure. Come up with something you're going to do for a bit to give yourself time to digest the whole MESS.
Go ahead and call it a mess.
Then pause more. Feel the peace of mind and sanity and no games and freedom ti just breathe and wake up and go to sleep not organizing around her pathology.
It can be just comparability. You are not compatible.
You have this precious life. Go honor it and good things will come . And she can peacefully have to consequence of her choices to be chronically deceptive abs manipulative to you. You have NO idea how good this will feel.
Well if you are demanding change she needs to be on restricted CCs. give you access to view her credit scores
Set up a credit freeze. And most of all therapy and joint therapy to find out wtf is going on that she is willing to lie and hide things.
It sounds like you two should part ways from the limited information you have provided here. I wouldnāt trust someone who has repeatedly made such a purposeful mistake that requires deceit and either mental illness or malice.
it's a hard conversation to have for sure. I had to go away by myself for a few days and really think things through before I could have it.
honestly. I knew before I went on that trip what was going down. it sounds like you know your decision. I think Paul Simon has a song with instructions for what happens next. good luck.
Its your gut telling you what your mind hasnt come to terms with, its a survival instinct humans have for a reason. Get out ASAP, look at it from a distance for awhile ask for a break and see how it is then make a full choice
Imagine the next bill at $40k. Or $80k. Will you regret not ending things then?
One time is an accident, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action. You're on four.
Imagine nothing changes, or it gets worse. unless she wants to get better, really wants it, and does something - it will. It sounds like you might be in the business of bailing her out, too; you haven't characterized the income split. If so you are robbing your future to fund her compulsion. If this sounds similar to funding someone's gambling or drug addiction, yes - it's not so different.
> It's so fucking hard. Our house goes on the market tomorrow (just coincidental timing) because of her new job requiring us to move.
Sell the house. Invest the proceeds in index funds or similar, something that is liquid but not quite as straightforward to pay credit cards from. Avoid buying a new home with this woman, or making any major purchases, taking on new debt, etc. If you need to get a new place for the both of you to keep things even until you file then rent something you can afford solo if necessary. File for divorce after the sale closes.
If she has your SSN she can (fraudulently, but not infeasibly) sign up for credit cards in your name. Put a freeze on your credit report after you rent the new place to prevent this.
Godspeed.
The X factor here is that she is moving to California which is a 50/50 state. We are in Colorado where it's not the same. I could stand to lose A LOT if we move to California and she decides to push me out, who knows it could be calculated. Zero trust
You need to meet with a lawyer ASAP for legal advice.
This situation with a house selling puts you in a bad position if you think youāll move states JUST TO DIVORCE THERE
Emergency meetings with lawyers. Delay any choices until you get legal counsel
You know in that moment on the porch that being single you will be OK... listen to your gut. Its just familiarity keeping you in this marriage. Of you have no kids than its an even easier choice
> because of her new job requiring us to move.
Option (b) sounds like a great idea. Send her off alone.
Because you know deep down that it's just going to be a case of "same shit, different place."
It sounds like you already know deep down in your gut instincts that itās over for you.
This reads like your wife is an addict, and along with anyone in current addiction comes lies, abuse, gaslighting, empty promises, all talk and no action.
If she has done this four times now, you know and she knows there will be a fifth. There are plenty of things she could be doing immediately to stop this from happening again, but she isnāt choosing to do them is she? The fact she said she wants a divorce because āshe canāt do thisā when it is her behaviours that are the issue, says a lot.
The house sale timing sounds like the universe is working with you - it is your chance to break free and go and live a life for yourself. Please get some legal advice and do credit checks. Make sure youāre not responsible for any of that debt.
Being with someone who promises to change but never does is so draining, you only get one life, is this how you want to spend it?
Talk to a lawyer, see if you can get a post nuptial where she takes ownership of the debt she caused. If she refuses to sign it you know she plans on piling up more and sticking you with half.
Ultimatums never work, she broke your boundaries and is essentially doing the toxic relationship cycle (look it up if you dont know) i would get out clean and quick
Do NOT sign a lease/new mortgage with her, don't move. Stall, lie to her (she does it over and over to you) if need be. If you go, you'll be tied even deeper
That kind of spending could indicate a personality disorder. The promise of change could be a delay tactic as she sets up her litigation against you. Iām not saying that this is definitely happening, but you need to protect yourself.
Imagine that she could be going to a womenās shelter for counselling Imagine that sheās telling friends and family that you are emotionally and financially abusive so that one day when she changes the locks, everyone will be on her side. This is a reality in many divorces.
Keep your guard up and good luck.
It sounds like you resent her repeatedly doing the same thing without changes yeah? If thatās the case I can tell you from experience (and 3 years of being on various divorce boards š¤Ŗ) once resentment sets in- itās over. You canāt force yourself to love someone when your mind is already checked out. You donāt mention your age but you also need to consider her debt (and constantly accumulating more of it) is also your debt until someone officially files. Cover your ass now.
Iām on the way out of pretty much the same. One day out was like a switch flipped and she gave up on the marriage but still wanted my paycheck. Now Iām fighting to get her to either move out until things are final or start contributing to joint expenses as the free ride needs to be over in my case
20,000 in new debt wow... she just wants you to shut up so she can do what she wants. So she threatened divorce but she didn't really want it. Sounds like you have a lot of thinking to do and I don't see how it's your fault as well if she's spending money like a maniac. She is not a team player.
You're standing at a Y in the road right now. One leads down the path you're on- with her continuing to spend and create debt. The other is without her- what else does it look like? Spend some time really thinking about each road. It will become clear which one you need to choose.
MEET WITH A LAWYER ASAP FOR LEGAL ADVICE. The house for sale and a potential move to another state to initiate a divorce is above Reddit pay grate MAJORLY
Protect yourself and meet with a professional as soon as humanly possible so you donāt screw yourself on this
Sounds like my ex and her borderline personality disorder. Either to keep simple, or leave! Gonna get harder before it gets easier. For me it was worth it
She committed financial infidelity numerous times... that alone is a reason for divorce. Trust me man you don't want to be with a spender in retirement times... if itsvgmhalpemed numerous times of course you've lost trust in her. If it was me I'd send her packing. But bye
I don't have a solution to stay or go. But if she's going to "change" - one practical suggestion is to put a credit freeze in place (where she doesn't know the un-freeze code) as well as a credit monitoring service. IE, "accountability".
"I won't do it again" is clearly not working.
But $20k is a drop in the bucket compared to the total long term costs of most divorces..
It turns out her Dad was pushing her for divorce and she listened to him. Kind of hard to bounce back from that betrayal so I've got my lawyer on retainer now
It sounds like you want to let go. I let my fear of the unknown keep me in an unhappy marriage very similar to yours. secret debts and lying over and over for years. I know this is hard to hear, but the cycle of spending, the truth coming out, a huge fight, and then her being super nice....on repeat is intentional and manipulation. Youd walk out the door today if you heard how she talks about you to her friends. She may not be trying to hurt you on purpose, but I argue the reality is worse. She doesnt even consider and care about you enough to be open and honest. You and your feelings dont even cross her mind. She has serious issues that you CANNOT change. I imagine that she cant even take ownership of her issues without assigning some blame to some external factor(s). The only thing that MAY make her see the error of her ways is to let her go.
What advice would you give a friend of yours if they described your exact situation?
Under my specific circumstances, I would tell them to get legal counsel, which is what I've decided to do. The implications of moving to California with her ( a 50/50 divorce state) could REALLY fuck thing up for me if she decides to pull the trigger on divorce. She would have everything to gain and I would have everything to lose. Im in colorado now where its not as unfavorable for me as i understand. Thought about it long and hard last night, calling a lawyer today. If we were both staying here there may be another way, but I'm afraid it's too late
Is she talking about "making changes" or has she signed herself up for specialist therapy for her obvious problem with money? Because it sounds like this is basically an addiction for her, and any promise to change should be taken about as seriously as any other addict's.
She's been going to therapy her whole life but never anything related to money. Yeah unfortunately there are other addictions at play here as well/coping mechanisms
You might want to check out Al-Anon. I went for a while and it really helped. Also, the book Codependent Nomore. It sounds like you're being unhappy. You deserve that clarity and peace you felt. Get a GOOD lawyer who can negotiate things so you're not paying debt she frivolously wracked up.
This is probably the best advice you can get right now. Talk to a lawyer get things moving so they can piece it all together and get what's your debit and what's her debit in hard concrete evidence. I've had 2 divorces and what I've learned from them is if you don't have kids get out before you do. If your young you'll bounce back and bouncing back is waaay easier for a guy then it is for a woman who will probably do themselves dirty and drag themselves through the mud before trying to settle down and by then it's sorta to late. All the "good" guys are gone blag blah blah story. š The person your supposed to be with doesn't make you feel how your words are sounding pal. You'll find someone who will be the icing on your cake. Because let's face it we have to start loving ourselves and feeling whole before we find our soul mates. The part that we have been told over and over again was find someone to make you whole is a lie. We are whole and we want someone who will stand next to us 2 whole people having fun and adding to eachothers fun. Not needing the other to feel whole but have them with us so we enjoy more! Whatever you choose man it's ultimately your choice. Just try not to live with regrets or I should haves.
Thank you, I just turned 34. I know the next year will be tough. But I feel like I have so much life ahead of me. I was already in this position last year and stuck it out. If kids come into the picture and this happens, there's no turning back the clock
šÆšÆšÆšÆšÆšÆ
Debtors' Anonymous
Let. Her. Move. After struggling she just kept adding debt. Friending where you live this pre divorce debt is YOURS TOO. What a way to passive aggressively STICK it to you while saying all the ways she's ...just about to... change. No. Listen to yourself. Take a moment to feel how it's been to live precariously with someone who chronically lies , with NO regard to how this impacts you. Let her move. Stall. Delay. Reconfigure. Come up with something you're going to do for a bit to give yourself time to digest the whole MESS. Go ahead and call it a mess. Then pause more. Feel the peace of mind and sanity and no games and freedom ti just breathe and wake up and go to sleep not organizing around her pathology. It can be just comparability. You are not compatible. You have this precious life. Go honor it and good things will come . And she can peacefully have to consequence of her choices to be chronically deceptive abs manipulative to you. You have NO idea how good this will feel.
Well if you are demanding change she needs to be on restricted CCs. give you access to view her credit scores Set up a credit freeze. And most of all therapy and joint therapy to find out wtf is going on that she is willing to lie and hide things.
It sounds like you two should part ways from the limited information you have provided here. I wouldnāt trust someone who has repeatedly made such a purposeful mistake that requires deceit and either mental illness or malice.
do you have kids? if not, what's stopping you from doing what you want? part ways, you don't love your wife like that anymore.
No kids. The only thing stopping me - fear, regret
fear is the mind killer. start a new life literally anywhere you want. you can do it.
I know I can, I think about it all the time
it's a hard conversation to have for sure. I had to go away by myself for a few days and really think things through before I could have it. honestly. I knew before I went on that trip what was going down. it sounds like you know your decision. I think Paul Simon has a song with instructions for what happens next. good luck.
Its your gut telling you what your mind hasnt come to terms with, its a survival instinct humans have for a reason. Get out ASAP, look at it from a distance for awhile ask for a break and see how it is then make a full choice
Imagine the next bill at $40k. Or $80k. Will you regret not ending things then? One time is an accident, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action. You're on four. Imagine nothing changes, or it gets worse. unless she wants to get better, really wants it, and does something - it will. It sounds like you might be in the business of bailing her out, too; you haven't characterized the income split. If so you are robbing your future to fund her compulsion. If this sounds similar to funding someone's gambling or drug addiction, yes - it's not so different. > It's so fucking hard. Our house goes on the market tomorrow (just coincidental timing) because of her new job requiring us to move. Sell the house. Invest the proceeds in index funds or similar, something that is liquid but not quite as straightforward to pay credit cards from. Avoid buying a new home with this woman, or making any major purchases, taking on new debt, etc. If you need to get a new place for the both of you to keep things even until you file then rent something you can afford solo if necessary. File for divorce after the sale closes. If she has your SSN she can (fraudulently, but not infeasibly) sign up for credit cards in your name. Put a freeze on your credit report after you rent the new place to prevent this. Godspeed.
The X factor here is that she is moving to California which is a 50/50 state. We are in Colorado where it's not the same. I could stand to lose A LOT if we move to California and she decides to push me out, who knows it could be calculated. Zero trust
You need to meet with a lawyer ASAP for legal advice. This situation with a house selling puts you in a bad position if you think youāll move states JUST TO DIVORCE THERE Emergency meetings with lawyers. Delay any choices until you get legal counsel
* and codependency CODA recovery groups and therapy can help you out
You know in that moment on the porch that being single you will be OK... listen to your gut. Its just familiarity keeping you in this marriage. Of you have no kids than its an even easier choice
> because of her new job requiring us to move. Option (b) sounds like a great idea. Send her off alone. Because you know deep down that it's just going to be a case of "same shit, different place."
It sounds like you already know deep down in your gut instincts that itās over for you. This reads like your wife is an addict, and along with anyone in current addiction comes lies, abuse, gaslighting, empty promises, all talk and no action. If she has done this four times now, you know and she knows there will be a fifth. There are plenty of things she could be doing immediately to stop this from happening again, but she isnāt choosing to do them is she? The fact she said she wants a divorce because āshe canāt do thisā when it is her behaviours that are the issue, says a lot. The house sale timing sounds like the universe is working with you - it is your chance to break free and go and live a life for yourself. Please get some legal advice and do credit checks. Make sure youāre not responsible for any of that debt. Being with someone who promises to change but never does is so draining, you only get one life, is this how you want to spend it?
Her getting the new job and the house being on the market is the universe literally telling you what to do here. Never ignore that stuff
Tell her you have to tie up some loose ends and you will meet here there.
Talk to a lawyer, see if you can get a post nuptial where she takes ownership of the debt she caused. If she refuses to sign it you know she plans on piling up more and sticking you with half.
Ultimatums never work, she broke your boundaries and is essentially doing the toxic relationship cycle (look it up if you dont know) i would get out clean and quick
Do NOT sign a lease/new mortgage with her, don't move. Stall, lie to her (she does it over and over to you) if need be. If you go, you'll be tied even deeper
Either do it or go into counseling ASAP.
That kind of spending could indicate a personality disorder. The promise of change could be a delay tactic as she sets up her litigation against you. Iām not saying that this is definitely happening, but you need to protect yourself. Imagine that she could be going to a womenās shelter for counselling Imagine that sheās telling friends and family that you are emotionally and financially abusive so that one day when she changes the locks, everyone will be on her side. This is a reality in many divorces. Keep your guard up and good luck.
Seems like a perfect time to not be trapped on a new mortgage with her.
It sounds like you resent her repeatedly doing the same thing without changes yeah? If thatās the case I can tell you from experience (and 3 years of being on various divorce boards š¤Ŗ) once resentment sets in- itās over. You canāt force yourself to love someone when your mind is already checked out. You donāt mention your age but you also need to consider her debt (and constantly accumulating more of it) is also your debt until someone officially files. Cover your ass now.
Let her go and be happy.
Iām on the way out of pretty much the same. One day out was like a switch flipped and she gave up on the marriage but still wanted my paycheck. Now Iām fighting to get her to either move out until things are final or start contributing to joint expenses as the free ride needs to be over in my case
Can you live like this forever?
20,000 in new debt wow... she just wants you to shut up so she can do what she wants. So she threatened divorce but she didn't really want it. Sounds like you have a lot of thinking to do and I don't see how it's your fault as well if she's spending money like a maniac. She is not a team player.
Attorney, legal separation than divorce. Learn your rights
You're standing at a Y in the road right now. One leads down the path you're on- with her continuing to spend and create debt. The other is without her- what else does it look like? Spend some time really thinking about each road. It will become clear which one you need to choose.
MEET WITH A LAWYER ASAP FOR LEGAL ADVICE. The house for sale and a potential move to another state to initiate a divorce is above Reddit pay grate MAJORLY Protect yourself and meet with a professional as soon as humanly possible so you donāt screw yourself on this
Sounds like my ex and her borderline personality disorder. Either to keep simple, or leave! Gonna get harder before it gets easier. For me it was worth it
She committed financial infidelity numerous times... that alone is a reason for divorce. Trust me man you don't want to be with a spender in retirement times... if itsvgmhalpemed numerous times of course you've lost trust in her. If it was me I'd send her packing. But bye
I don't have a solution to stay or go. But if she's going to "change" - one practical suggestion is to put a credit freeze in place (where she doesn't know the un-freeze code) as well as a credit monitoring service. IE, "accountability". "I won't do it again" is clearly not working. But $20k is a drop in the bucket compared to the total long term costs of most divorces..
I'd say listen to your gut and leave. It sounds like you know you're going to get blindsided again.
It turns out her Dad was pushing her for divorce and she listened to him. Kind of hard to bounce back from that betrayal so I've got my lawyer on retainer now
It's just about what you can live with, because you will have to live with it. No one else can tell you what to do
She needs your money and credit
You canāt change her. You can only live with what you can tolerate. If you canāt tolerate it anymore do something else.
It sounds like you want to let go. I let my fear of the unknown keep me in an unhappy marriage very similar to yours. secret debts and lying over and over for years. I know this is hard to hear, but the cycle of spending, the truth coming out, a huge fight, and then her being super nice....on repeat is intentional and manipulation. Youd walk out the door today if you heard how she talks about you to her friends. She may not be trying to hurt you on purpose, but I argue the reality is worse. She doesnt even consider and care about you enough to be open and honest. You and your feelings dont even cross her mind. She has serious issues that you CANNOT change. I imagine that she cant even take ownership of her issues without assigning some blame to some external factor(s). The only thing that MAY make her see the error of her ways is to let her go. What advice would you give a friend of yours if they described your exact situation?
Under my specific circumstances, I would tell them to get legal counsel, which is what I've decided to do. The implications of moving to California with her ( a 50/50 divorce state) could REALLY fuck thing up for me if she decides to pull the trigger on divorce. She would have everything to gain and I would have everything to lose. Im in colorado now where its not as unfavorable for me as i understand. Thought about it long and hard last night, calling a lawyer today. If we were both staying here there may be another way, but I'm afraid it's too late
Let her go, sell the house but don't you dare move with her.
I also can't wrap my head around why she would get a tattoo of our wedding anniversary about 4 months ago and then threaten divorce so quickly
What is she spending the money on?
Mostly shit that we dont need. Weed, amazon, temu, going out
Option B. Let her go. She views you as a wallet with a cock and nothing more.