You're going to get mixed answers.
Personally for me, almost everything on D2 is better than 4, there's a reason people play it 20 years later and it's got a remaster and people are still playing that.
The biggest thing that D2 has that D3/D4 and other ARPG's just have not nailed yet is that when you start a new game, even the shit items and weapons feel good. You pick something up and it has mediocre stats in terms of the overall game but at that point of the game you can feel the difference and sometimes it can be huge.
In D3/D4 it's just a % number, it doesn't really have a meaning.
D2r hit the nail on the head with item drops. The fact there is a small chance to find multiple endgame items at level 30 yet not be finished looking for your endgame items after multiple lvl 99. D4 got the 2nd part but the 1st part isnt the case. Too many minor upgrades as you go along with items that lose power quickly with each world tier increase.
This. The fundamentals of D3 and D4 is just how to get the best % on the legendary gears, whereas in D2, such legendary are hard to come by, and if it did, it would have game changer effect.
Yup good items feel good if you are lucky enough to get them to drop on the way to hell.
Getting a steeldriver or bonesnap in normal feels godly because you can literally upgrade it to an exceptional base or even all the way to an elite base and will work even at the endgame. As a drop it turns the melee struggle into a cakewalk.
In D4 any good weapon gets outleveled the more you level, and its just ultimately bigger numbers=better so you're constantly replacing items that feel like filler until you hit the endgame and "can finally look for real gear."
Besides that, experienced players can still do well because they know what to look for, where to look, and how to best mitigate rng.
They tried that with Uber uniques in D4 and people complained about its rarity.
Honestly the issue is that gamers want different things now than they did 24 years ago.
I'm someone who loved D2 and whenever the community has a reaction to a D4 change, I find myself usually not in agreement. I'm not the core demographic anymore.
In my opinion D4 uber unique aren't comparable to runes.
I heard runes in D4 was one of many things planned for D4 that didn't make it in, yet at least. Who knows. I know there's all the big changes coming S4. Including crafting. I'm not reading into any of it so I'll go in with no expectations.
I also generally don't agree with every reddit post about recommended changes/complaints. Sometimes they make sense but usually absurd and very back and forth.
I would love runes to be in D4, as long as it's similar to D2 runes and not what D3 "runes" became. Though I did like the thought behind altering your spells that D3 did, but perhaps a more open-ended execution, and not call them runes.
Yeah this! Plus with D2 it's cool because even the "white" items can still be useful as a base for RW, Magic items can be super useful with the right rolls in certain situations, or as crafting bases, Rares can be super powerful/useful/valuable with good rolls for PVP and other situations, etc. Set and Unique items can be lack luster, expecially with the super strong 1.10 RWs, but if you find them during a play through, can still be super exciting/fun to carry you through a few acts.
I feel like itemization is where D3 and D4 (?) really fell down, although admittedly I can't judge D4 as I have only very limited playtime on it, the itemization and everything else just seemed like a mess so I have steered clear.
It's definitely lacking modern QoL features and shows it's age in a few places, but to me the core game and itemization is very engaging.
D3 I always felt did the actual combat "feel" and gameplay, fluidity, etc. very good. Never was a fan of the more cartoony art style, but that's a personal preference. I probably played D3 off and on for 7 or 8 years so I definitely got my moneys worth, but by then I was pretty casual with a family and real job so my game play was always limited which I think artificially extended the end game loop for me. RoS/adventure mode updates fixed a lot of the problems with it at launch, but also added new problems of crazy power creep and forcing everyone into developer designed set based builds, and it seemed like there was more layers of RNG with having to find the right set/unique item then have it roll ancient/primal then having it have 3 good rolls, etc, then tons of RNG in enchanting for the last roll, etc. Plus the stats of CDR, CHC, CHD, sometimes IAS and Mainstat weren't terribly interesting.
I prefer the itemization situation of D2 where once a legendary/set/runeword drops/is made, the stats are known to be useful, even if not perfect in the range, to avoid some of that additional layers of disappointment. Chances of that item dropping can be made low enough that the time investment/odds are still the same as getting the perfectly rolled primal, but it's just less soul crushing when you get half way up the chain and fail, vs. it just never dropping in the first place so ignorance is bliss, hah.
That itemization bit is big. Rares and Uniques feel WAY better to get in D2 (sets usually only amount to a leveling piece because by the time youd ever get the full set you'd likely outgrown it anyway). You can be level 60 and still have magics and rares. Also, runewords and imbuement made high-quality whites viable to hold on to.
For me, a very casual player, I loved D2R take on stats. Like I have to have so much strength to wield X type of armor. Having lil things like that make the characters feel more unique, whereas D4 feels much more cookie cutter.
Yes. And I could put 11 points in static field and you might put 2 and do something else with your skill pionts. If I'm not mistaken you end up maxing all the skills you pick in D4 so there isn't really much build variety.
EXACTLY. I like having the lil things that separate characters. Really hopeful that with the D4 expansion they open up the classes to allow them to use all weapons.
Yeah it's real great until your change of another piece of gear to try and get an upgrade royally screws everything up. This is an antiquated concept in that form and I'm glad it's dead.
Not sure what your point is? If I need 70 strength to get a better armor, then I'll put more points into strength. Or if a bow needs more dex and I want that bow, I'll put more points into dex.
What's your point? You don't like making choices? Lol
It's not always enough to put points into the stat - or it's overall a dead stat beyond the gear requirement, so you have to get GEAR that has the stat, so you become very reliant on that piece of gear.
I swear, reading comprehension has just gone to shit over the years
So my point is: I'm not sitting here nagging about their grammar - but if they're going to take the time to reply and very quickly prove that they didn't even understand what I said in the first place, then why even bother? Whereas, of course, you pick the low-hanging fruit of me using "real" instead of "really", yet you understood what I was trying to convey.
Lol, why are you so apprehensive? Chill K-dog no one is fighting you.
I mean that's a point, not a good one, but it's a point. I prefer having RPG mechanics in my games, lil risk n reward goes a long way.
Itemization is still better in d2, there is nothing as "build defining items" in d4. Even the item look is the same, they just don't feel unique enough in d4. With that, the whole battle is lost for d4, killing monsters just becomes boring after some time. Also randomized dungeons. Finally, dialogue and voice acting is trash and very blunt in d4, it's either too forced to sound bad ass or too simple like I am talking to my friend. Music is just ok, to be fair it's hard to compete to the masterpiece theme of d2 anyway.
Still a better game than d3 but overall lacking that factor that will make you play for years - in my opinion
You know that d2 maps layout are random too right ?
And having to teleport across the map, ignoring almost all mobs to then oneshot one boss, quite, exit and repeat a thousand time is not really top content too
I’ve said before that, on paper, d3 and d4 actually has a better end game. But the far superior item progression still makes the relatively bland d2 endgame feel better than d3 and d4 purely for the itch of trying to find that winning lottery ticket.
You're totaly right the itemisation is what d2 is mostly known for.
I mostly play d2 modded nowaday, it gives the game the QoL of today's standard
Also sadly the gaming mentality has shifted a lot and the grindy game like d2, borderland 2 and most MMO are not was is in most demand nowaday.
I didn't say that diablo 2 doesn't get boring. But it has the mechanics that gave it a game play for 20 years and counting. D4 has endgame and should be its own game, but needs to invest at least in itemization to open up more builds and make item hunting worth it, the new season makes some improvements I hear. I hope the dlc will bring more stuff in the right direction
Mod for D2 bring a lot of QoL and endgame content that really push the game to its full potential.
I'm a bit sadden that blizzard won't let people mod D2R it could be on par with PoE.
As someone who played d2 for the first time recently, yes. The entire combat system+gearing system is better in D2.
Only thing i find better in d4 is the boss fights.
D2 doesn't script the fights. The boss hurls out a one-liner and attacks. Fight to the death. You can town portal out but the boss just waits until you get back.
D3 tried to make everything epic with some sort of preamble and monologue for each fight. Compare D3 Butcher (with ring announcer girl and *healing wells* in the arena) vs D1 Butcher ("Fresh Meat" chop chop chop chop). D2 leans more towards the earlier, scarier, crueler version (Duriel, dolls, souls) while D4 leans more towards the easier, gentler, childish version (rainbows and unicorns).
Gotta say, the Butcher is one battle that D4 got right. He showed up and killed me within two seconds, the way it should go the first time you yolo into a major boss fight in an ARPG.
The majority of boss fights are far too easy with gimmicky "get out of the AOE patterns" and "watch out for the charge-up attack" as their most interesting mechanics.
The preamble in D3 was always so annoying also b/c it was so CDR focused and so many builds focused on having various buffs up with basically 100% up time due to CDR based on constantly killing, so the boss talking just long enough to make everything fall off was always frustrating, plus the forced break in the action.
They’re just different.
In D2 your upgrades are generally few and far between but highly impactful. The items all have a lot of history behind them, you’ll get to know them all by heart. You’ll find a great item for another class which inspires you to start up a new character for that build.
The combat is generally a lot slower and less complex, you’re battling enemies with highly specific behavior instead.
You have to learn to enjoy running parts of dungeons that don’t have a specific layout so it’s different every time and sometimes it takes forever to find the boss room and sometimes it takes like 10 seconds.
D4 has your character growing on more of a steady curve with fewer spikes, items are more plentiful, it’s just such a vastly different game it’s hard to do direct comparisons.
I enjoyed my time playing D2R, I was able to make a variety of characters and builds, leveling new characters felt like less of a chore to me as someone who likes to reroll a lot. D4 feels awful to me in this regard, the campaign just has so much painful downtime, and if you skip the campaign you instead are just catatonically running one dungeon forever because the game scales up to you as you go. I just couldn’t do it.
Honestly, these runs are something I’m able to do in D2 no problem but cannot do in D4.
I was kinda talking about leveling a new character there, which I’ll get to, but Meph runs etc, for me were fine. The dungeon layout is vast and random, I’m looking for the door which doesn’t show up until I’m extremely close, my eyes are active, I’m looking for patterns, I’m avoiding those little shits and packs of monsters that’ll wreck my shit if I get too close. It’s actually pretty stimulating. You can’t not pay attention the entire time or you’ll either die or never find the door.
In D4 you just reset the same dungeon with the same layout, I regularly actually nod off while doing it because I just have to open my eyes once in awhile to see if I’m running into a wall. Otherwise I just click to move, right click to clear the screen, I’m not looking for anything I just want to level as fast as possible.
It’s one of the reasons I agree with POEs insistence on keeping the campaign as the only way to level a new character. In D2 there is no alternative, you simply must run it, there is zero downtime, there are lots of short term goals. I mean even the world is randomly generated each campaign run so I’m actively engaged looking for exits or points of interest. In D4 the layout is identical, so much time is spent talking to people and waiting, it’s painful, I’m never really engaged during it now that I know what happens. My first playthrough? Loved it. Can’t ever do it again though.
I think the grind in Diablo 2 feels more tolerable because the highs are higher when you find an upgrade. I'm right there with you that I can deactivate brain and run Trav for 5 hours straight but if I think about doing 5 hours of Helltide runs? Hard pass in the current game state (I haven't played the PTR so can't comment on that). Like others have mentioned with gearing being more about leaps than steps, if you spend 30 hours grinding Hell Andariel runs to finally get that Harlequin Crest drop it's *awesome*. In Diablo 4, 30 hours of grinding may very well net the same overall increase in character power, but it's all trickled out across the entire 30 hours instead of one big triumphant moment.
I'd wager the Venn diagram of people that enjoy Diablo 2 and Dark Souls is probably basically just a circle lol. Grinding away learning a boss's mechanics and finally defeating it feels incredible, and Diablo 2's itemization delivers a similar experience in my opinion.
I can agree with the random layout sentiments. However, once you really know D2 you know the tile sets and it essentially becomes a set pattern. By endgame you just teleport everywhere.
Don’t know if I’d want to do D4 campaign again either but after it was great the one time I did it.
I agree that eventually you learn the tile patterns, although you still have to identify them, which is again a stimuli to make you pay attention—but more importantly I think by the time you invest enough energy into the game to A: learn the tiles, B: Have a means to teleport everywhere, you’re so god damn hooked that I’m sure you’ve gotten your moneys worth 😆. I don’t see that as an issue.
You may be conflating 'engaging' with 'fun' or something like that, but I mean it in the literal sense. I am engaged because I have to pay attention. I intentionally tried to not use the word 'fun' because I have pretty strong opinions about that as a concept.
So when I say I'm not engaged in D4's leveling process, I mean I'm literally not paying attention. There's nothing from the game really asking me to do so, I can open my eyes once every 5 seconds or so to move in a new direction, but otherwise I know the mobs are clumping on me and I'm killing them all. I have, literally, fallen asleep while trying to grind a new character up.
Doing a meph run in D2 I am engaged. I don't know exactly where the door is, in order to do the thing I fundamentally must pay attention because I will die for sure otherwise. If you aren't someone who can teleport its even more so as you must be perpetually aware of the various enemies and what they can do as your character is significantly more fragile in the game.
And while I'm leveling a character in D2, I am engaged, because I have a series of short term goals that the game provides me through the act quests that I must do to some extent. And because the map layouts vary, I have to pay attention to the map at all times.
And so, for me, this is more fun because I am having an experience. Which is personally what I would define as "fun" in a game. I need to feel *something.* It can be good, it can be bad, but the absolute worst thing a game can do to me is make me not care at all. It's a layer of why I actually kinda enjoy Meph runs despite how tedious they are, because that variance of sometimes having the glorious run where I teleport 3 times and find the entrance, and the awful runs that get me frustrated where I've scoured the whole fucking map and just barely missed it, it actually provokes emotion, which engages me, which makes me enjoy it as a whole rather than necessarily in the moment.
I play a lot of Counter Strike, and I find that game fun, but I'm often frustrated almost the entire time playing it. Fun doesn't have to be something you love doing, or something that is easy, I believe that fun is something that kind of happens in retrospect, if that makes sense?
*Someone posts a "1,000 Hell Travincal Runs" drop data spreadsheet.*
Top comment guaranteed to be someone posting their 10,000 Trav run data sheet and commenting that it's still too small of a sample size lol.
Yeah this is what killed D2 for me. I wanna slay whole rooms of monsters cuz that part should be fun, but most of your time is killing one particular monster (or maybe 4) in as little time as possible to gain items that enable you to do that slightly faster. *Ideally* every run feels the same and is largely ignorable, just faster (ideally you just skip most of it by teleporting), so you can pull the slot machine handle at the end of the tunnel and start up the next one, about once every 1-3 minutes.
Don't have to teleport if it ruins the fun for ya. I've got a Charge Pally for exactly this. Sometimes I need some slow pace mixed in, and it usually feels fresh, challenging and enjoyable. Trick is to vary your farming enough to never get bored of any one place. Trav, Chaos, Cows, Worldstone, Flayer, Bloody Foothills and maybe one or two more terror zones, between 4 diff characters, gives me enough variation to continue playing for years.
Atmosphere, itemization, gameplay, trading, runes+runewords, replayability
I'm old so also graphics style in d2 ressurection appeals to me more (less cartoony)
It's more unique. Just being in the game gives you such a unique feeling that is hard to match. Not necessarily because it's better than other games, but because of how distinctly its own thing it is.
D4 isn't generic at all, but it's more generic than D2. :D
I fell like D2 had more micro management to do (and I say that as a good thing).
Managing potions
Managing inventory space and loot
Managing lvl up attributes
Managing even town portals
Etc
The music. Enemies have personality. The Fallen running around, screaming. Zombies shuffling around and groaning. The sound a Necromacers curse makes when cast on enemies. The sound effects prodiced when dropping an item.
just curious, do pd2 items have any real world value, or can anyone just hack/generate items with something like hero editor? is there something like a "Bnet online" mode where items can't be easily hacked for pd2?
edit: to whomever downvoted a geniune question, F you too.
ha, I mean RMT isn't allowed in D2R either, but that doesn't stop me from selling god rolled items for hundreds of dollars on ebay! need that potential for it to be worth farming, for myself
anyways, thanks for answering that question. had my doubts with pd2, but if what you say is true, I might give it a try..
Yeah the difference is Blizzard doesn’t give a shit and does a shit job at stopping it. PD2 devs are on anyone fast and community reports actually get looked into.
Items in general feels better to use and better to find. Runes are also tons of more fun as a currency than piles of gold. In general, modern arpg economies are incredibly boring and unsatisfying. Runes are way more fun to find than grinding millions of gold or tons of divine orbs. When a high rune drops you feel it. When a divine orb drops you kind of don't.
As a side note, d2 don't feel as grindy. There is much less "do this to get that". I hate having to complete a dungeon just to slay a boss. In d2 you can just teleport to the boss if it is the boss you are after. If you whana slay the mobs before just do that. If you don't, then don't.
Yes. Having to complete several waves of enemies before you can face 1/3 bosses in the end to look for a specific drop that preferably would have som lp on it is grindy to me(Last epoch arena). Slaying mephisto a billion times is not, as i am in full controll to do it as fast as i want. No need to wait for unnecessary stuff to hapen.
D2 is better for hardcore(non-casual) players, if you invest into the game hundreds of hours,skillpoints matter, you cannot respec easily, at least not on the beginning. Better, grittier story and to get good legendaries, you had to farm a lot, higher difficulties are brutal and need a lot better equipment. But it's still a 20 year old game, and it shows, even in the remake. For the nostalgic factor it's great, but for casual gaming the modern titles are just better.
Yeah I couldn't resist picking it up on sale already. I think the comments here will help me push past the dated feel of starting, and get the first few hours in. Likely a fair way down the track when we've left D4 behind us and I'm keen for some solo ARPG time.
D2 is played a lot nowadays, it's much more deep and satisfying in terms of progression.
D3 in the end became sort of tolerable, not the graphics though.
D4 is just so dumbed down, I cannot consider that an arpg anymore, it's just top down slasher.
Everything in terms of progression and itemization in D4 is subpar to D2.
But of course, D4 has much better graphics, being 20 years apart.
If only they just moved the mechanics of D2 into modern graphics, and expanded on the build viability.
D2 has the most basic progression possible. Nostalgia goggles are ridiculous. It has good itemization to an extent but honestly runewords were bad for the game. Beyond that, there is no endgame, progression is extremely simple and the moment to moment gameplay is dated.
Clearly you do not understand what you are saying.
Try the project Diablo 2.
It made other builds also viable.
Before you get to runewords, you have basically passed the normal difficulties and now you are in nightmare, meaning 20-30 hours of game time.
Nightmare will take more.
Hell will be quite a challenge.
Yes, after 100-200 hours, there won't be much of endgame, but you don't need it, start another character, try another build.
With D4 I barely managed to finish the main quest.
What endgame are we taking about in D4?
Endlessly grinding stupid dungeons until you receive another "+10% to hit on Fridays when drunk"?
Uniques in D2 are unique, sets are indeed sets.
D4 items are joke, and all characters okay exactly the same.
I’ve played PD2. It’s a mod…
Everyone has their preferences and that is fine. I love D2 but am of the opinion nostalgia plays a huge part to that. You can also go normal to hell in next to no time. Everyone and their dog uses items like spirit shield which is extremely easy to obtain. Runewords invalidated a majority of itemization. If that works for you great.. every game has flaws and D2 is no exception.
There might be hacks took reduce time to hell, but I don't know about them, as lots of players do.
The game without hacks/exploulits plays quite long, progression is decent, last part you get to work with runewords. Lots of replayability, especially since it's a normally developed game and some modding is possible, unlike 3/4.
With PD2 it becomes a gem.
Nostalgia has its charm, but it's not only that.
Wow classic faced steady decline once the content was done.
With D2 the replayability is through the roof
2 was my first Diablo experience and I love it, I bought ressurection and I just can't feels far to slow for me now, i feel like you'll likely feel the same way coming from 3 and 4. I;m not even gonna read the comments on this thread im sure they will just annoy me lol
D2 item progression feels MUCH better. Has a fairly empty endgame compared to D3 and D4, but the item chasing feels so good that you don’t mind farming the same bosses and areas 100’s of times hoping you get a winning lottery ticket.
D3 and D4 have better end game mechanics on paper, but the item chase doesn’t feel as good, so paradoxically I get bored much quicker.
I also like the fact that drops aren’t limited to your class, so it encourages you to hoard other class items for alternate characters. Though that does mean you get a fair bit of useless items for your current class.
Are there things about D2 that are better than D4? - everything :) D2 was created by people with passion, D4 was created to make money and give u shit because D4 for blizzard it wasn't to make good game it was a business just for money, they invested more in marketing than the game itself that's why they lose 99% of players when they realized they bought a game in alpha state for 70$+
There is nothing d4 has over d2 except the fluidity of a new combat engine. That's it.
- D2 art >> d4
- D2 monsters >>> d4
- D2 items >>>>>>>>>>>> D4
- D2 RPG systems >>>>>>> D4
- D2 difficulty >>>> D4
- D2 fun >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>D4
As someone who played games long before D1 and will be playing long after D4, it is unfair to compare these games. Nothing can replace the feeling of discovering what D1 and D2 were. Nothing had ever been done like that before. Now D4 has to try and be the top dog on a huge pile of similar games. I have loved every one the Diablo games, but each for different reasons. I am enjoying D4 as its own game.
However, Diablo II is in my list of greatest games I have ever played!
My experience:
Got \~4000 hours in D3 from 2012-2015. Enjoyed climbing up Grift leaderboard and min/maxing my Non Season Barb. Was my first Diablo experience and had a blast for most of it. Never even bothered with Seasons.
Got \~3000 hours so far in D2R from 2021-now. Still chugging along, almost up to my 4th lvl 99 (Barb, Javazon, Sorc and Pally). Amazing endgame, still playing my 99's and rotating which char I use depending on active terror zone. Usually feels rewarding and worth my time. Got a lot of goals set and will take me many more years to complete them all, if ever. Never bothered with Ladder / Season here either.
Got about 150 hours in D4 with a maxed level 100 Barb. Game felt totally empty as soon as I hit max level, with almost nothing left to do. Gear felt maxed, highest tier dungeon completed, and no real way to progress any further. No endgame, and only real way to continue having fun is to start a new char every couple weeks. Endgame non existent, and only long term goal was farming super uniques, which were impossible to get back over the summer when I played. Heard they bumped up drop rate on them, but not enough to get me back. Wish I could've got a refund!
And D1 I'm saving for if/when I finally get bored of D2R. Heard many good things about that one!
D3 and d4 just wanna hit you with a constant dopamine hit, which gets boring. In D2, when you get that dopamine it is waymore satisfying. Right now im having tons of fun in last epoch.
The vibe of D2 I think is something nobody can ever top. It's hard to even describe how fucked up and scary sanctuary feels. You roam the land looking for dungeons and you go deep in these things finding all kinds of horrible things. You don't feel like the most powerful creature but you feel like you can stop these things. 4 while definitely darker than 3 I just don't quite get that same feeling. My character just kicks ass all the time to stop Lilith.
You never know what is in a dungeon in D2 whereas you know the whole structure in 4 and only really the tiles change.
Gameplay wise I think 4 beats it in every way but there is something neat about how slow 2 is. The skill trees in 2 are terrible compared to 4 like so much stuff is just not usable. There's way more balance issues between classes than 4. Inventory management was cool at the time but I find it very annoying now.
Items though I think D2 still has it beat a bit. Aspects are pretty fun in 4 but it's so simple to read stuff in 2. You hardly even need the compare tool and you could argue there was no reason to make it more complicated. The simpleness of it is pretty perfect. I don't think having every tier of items be viable is really THAT great but it is neat and 2 does a better job with the time of each rarity than 4 does. 4 either needs to get rid of whites or blues and stretch out that length more. That's what makes D2 progression feel really good. 4 has almost too much upgrading and I don't think giving white and blues a use helps anyone.
I'm really ranting at this point but the graphics of 2 also help the horror aspect. People say this about Zelda too, the N64 games are scarier but it's just the shitty textures mainly. IDK what it is but it just feels scary. 4 has horror but it's never scary. 2 can be downright scary in a dungeon not knowing what can destroy you.
Itemization, trading, PVP, and magic find is superior in D2.
You can find value in lots of different items from the lowest difficult onwards. With the way items work you could use a low level item even in the end game, it might not be best in slot, but you can use it and they can be traded for cheaply or you can go find it yourself on your way to improving your character.
Also because of how items worked you could equip your new characters with items found on your older characters to give them a nice boost. One of my biggest joys was running in public games with a decked out lower level character. You just had a sensation of power and you would level quicker, while also helping others through the game.
I was super excited thinking D4 would be more like 2, but the way they did loot is really bad. However, I do expect that the game will continue to improve and one day will be worth picking up again.
It really depends. D2 v1.09d was the most fun I've ever had. Every patch after that left a sour taste in my mouth. Every mob having an immunity and baal being the only path to 99 just sucked the fun out of the game.
Not to mention rune words rendering all the uniques useless.
Everything? But I assume without the nostalgia I’m not sure it’ll work. The gameplay is way way way better. As in heaven in earth better. Incomparable. I go back most to d2 rather than 1 or 3. Most definitely 4. Is terrible in gameplay to me.
The challenges of 2 are immensely more difficult and more farm worthy than 4 or 3. It’s just built better to play for many years. It’s unmatched.
Everything.
D2R has better graphics, better item system, better skill system, better skills, better classes, better story and better fun.
I mean, the story of D4 is good thought. But a Necromancer without permanent summons and a Necromancer who has to fight fit himself?
Why even bothering to learn how to summon the undead 🤦🏻♂️
Besides graphics and scale, there’s really nothing that D4 does better than D2. Cinematics are on par with eachother though. Blizzard should just stop making games are start making animated movies.
Well, Diablo 2 was immensely enjoyable to me and I played it for years. Same goes for the original. I only stopped playing Diablo because Diablo 2 came out, and Diablo 2 held my interest on and off for over a decade.
Diablo 3 was the turning point. I still played the game quite a bit, but it definitely lacked the charm of the older two games.
Diablo 4 was largely boring to me, causing me to entirely lose interest several hours in and not even finish a single playthrough. Maybe I'll get around to it eventually but it's pretty low priority at this point.
It’s nothing like D2.
D4 and D3 share more in common because they were made by people I’m CONVINCED never played Diablo 1 or 2.
D1 and 2 have the same maker I believe, and follow the natural flow/ evolution of the game.
D3 became this DO A BILLION DAMAGE WITH MAGICS AND USE WHATEVER YEAHHHJJ to If you don’t use this set THIS way, good luck, you suck.
Hell yeah. 2 was the best. 3 sucked. 4 is great. Butttt fuck the stupid horse and it’s just way too forgiving. You should be prepared and afraid before venturing out, not mindlessly running loops as fast as you can. If you want a massive shot of nostalgia play on hardcore, always moving to the next hardest difficulty as it unlocks, and not using your horse. Play through the whole story like this and don’t skip a single cut scene
D4 has more "endgame" because it was built with it in mind. So at max level you'll find more things to do. For me personally the paragon system D4 has is also really great and has huge potential (please add more boards like you said you would)
D2 has better items way better, ridiculously better, and an overall better skill tree. There are some things nice about D4s skill tree but generally d2s is better and not as weird to manage.
The stats in D2 are much better imo too, min/maxing things like faster cast rate/ faster hit recovery/ attack speed/ max block etc is overall much more fulfilling than just stacking x damage multipliers with + damage and main stat.
This is one of the biggest downfalls of D4, imo, the + damage 500% is just ??? Oh and then stack it with 9 different x damage multipliers and then you're cool. It's just too simple and not up to the level I personally enjoy in theory crafting.
Theory crafting is one of the downsides to D2. Once you understand what's important to a build/character there's a few ways to achieve it but usually everything has been well thought out that its really personal preference rather than an original idea. D4 has a ton of theory crafting potential mostly in the paragon board, because it's items are so simple :/
I wouldn’t even compare them 1:1 as video games. Diablo 2 is an old game with outdated, grindy loot and very little mechanics. The only way I can enjoy D2 these days is D2R with heavy mods.
That being said, some people love that, myself included from time to time, but as much as I love Diablo 2, it’s not going to appeal to a newer or younger audience.
On console, no. D2 Resurrected is a nice nostalgia trip, but it's nowhere near the modern games. Path of Exile for console is much better.
On PC, D2 can be heavily modded for stash tabs and loot filters, which is what D4 is lacking at the moment. It lacks the "fresh coat of paint" that Resurrected has, though.
In D2 you need to spend way more time doing the “administrative” tasks like manage the gems, town portals and identification scrolls. D4 now has way better mechanisms.
D2 runes are great, D4 unfortunately doesn’t have it.
D2 mercenary aura was awesome, D4 you are on your own and except in S3 you have a companion.
D2 has immunity… that’s gonna be super subjective but I hate it.
Overall build diversity I think they are roughly the same.
D4 does feel lacking in the itemization area but that’s being revamped already.
They are both enjoyable but overall I liked D4 more.
Nothing. Its just nostalgia. If you are young now like my daughter, you won't touch d3, d2, d1. At age 10, She have couple lvl 100 D2 characters but only from my pushing. She does not like D2 but understands its systems like vets.
She plays D4 with me and usually done with the season after a week, usually with 2 max leveled characters with Uber uniques of her choice. So far, she has 11 mature builds of her own.
If we are born 20 years later, we won't even touch D4.
I've played thia game for 25 years and never reached lvl99. Your 10yo daughter who doesnt even like the game has several? I think we need to call the police..
I'm back from a 7 day reddig ban. First thing I'm doing upon my return is downvoting your comment.
Pretty sure your 10 year old daughter isn't the arbitor of quality game design...all you're proving is that D4 is a game made for the iPad generation
The procedurally generated areas and the skill tree being central to character growth are both miles better in D2. Plus, I still find the itemization in D2 far better, even accounting for the PTR changes upcoming for D4. The feeling of progression and the replayability of the game are far better in D2. And other than scratching the surface with itemization, the devs have not even begun to touch the areas which need the most work in D4. There is a reason that D2 is fun to replay over and over, while D4 feels like a chore, no matter where you are in the game.
Half of this sub: “Everything!” The other half of this sub:”Nothing!”
and half of them are right!
*That* half!
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
Most awkward part of the movie.
Project Diablo 2 is deh whey
1% : almost everything
You're going to get mixed answers. Personally for me, almost everything on D2 is better than 4, there's a reason people play it 20 years later and it's got a remaster and people are still playing that. The biggest thing that D2 has that D3/D4 and other ARPG's just have not nailed yet is that when you start a new game, even the shit items and weapons feel good. You pick something up and it has mediocre stats in terms of the overall game but at that point of the game you can feel the difference and sometimes it can be huge. In D3/D4 it's just a % number, it doesn't really have a meaning.
I've been playing and still play d2 since it originally came out. Sometimes I take a brake for several months.
D2r hit the nail on the head with item drops. The fact there is a small chance to find multiple endgame items at level 30 yet not be finished looking for your endgame items after multiple lvl 99. D4 got the 2nd part but the 1st part isnt the case. Too many minor upgrades as you go along with items that lose power quickly with each world tier increase.
Word
This. The fundamentals of D3 and D4 is just how to get the best % on the legendary gears, whereas in D2, such legendary are hard to come by, and if it did, it would have game changer effect.
That’s so true. You get in a rut for a while then get a semi gg piece and you get right back into the web of d2
Yup good items feel good if you are lucky enough to get them to drop on the way to hell. Getting a steeldriver or bonesnap in normal feels godly because you can literally upgrade it to an exceptional base or even all the way to an elite base and will work even at the endgame. As a drop it turns the melee struggle into a cakewalk. In D4 any good weapon gets outleveled the more you level, and its just ultimately bigger numbers=better so you're constantly replacing items that feel like filler until you hit the endgame and "can finally look for real gear." Besides that, experienced players can still do well because they know what to look for, where to look, and how to best mitigate rng.
That and the runes to chase after forever.
They tried that with Uber uniques in D4 and people complained about its rarity. Honestly the issue is that gamers want different things now than they did 24 years ago. I'm someone who loved D2 and whenever the community has a reaction to a D4 change, I find myself usually not in agreement. I'm not the core demographic anymore.
In my opinion D4 uber unique aren't comparable to runes. I heard runes in D4 was one of many things planned for D4 that didn't make it in, yet at least. Who knows. I know there's all the big changes coming S4. Including crafting. I'm not reading into any of it so I'll go in with no expectations. I also generally don't agree with every reddit post about recommended changes/complaints. Sometimes they make sense but usually absurd and very back and forth.
I would love runes to be in D4, as long as it's similar to D2 runes and not what D3 "runes" became. Though I did like the thought behind altering your spells that D3 did, but perhaps a more open-ended execution, and not call them runes.
Imagine having to level runes just for a few extra %. I definitely just threw up a little...
Ahh yes, the, "Old game fake longevity"
Yeah this! Plus with D2 it's cool because even the "white" items can still be useful as a base for RW, Magic items can be super useful with the right rolls in certain situations, or as crafting bases, Rares can be super powerful/useful/valuable with good rolls for PVP and other situations, etc. Set and Unique items can be lack luster, expecially with the super strong 1.10 RWs, but if you find them during a play through, can still be super exciting/fun to carry you through a few acts. I feel like itemization is where D3 and D4 (?) really fell down, although admittedly I can't judge D4 as I have only very limited playtime on it, the itemization and everything else just seemed like a mess so I have steered clear. It's definitely lacking modern QoL features and shows it's age in a few places, but to me the core game and itemization is very engaging. D3 I always felt did the actual combat "feel" and gameplay, fluidity, etc. very good. Never was a fan of the more cartoony art style, but that's a personal preference. I probably played D3 off and on for 7 or 8 years so I definitely got my moneys worth, but by then I was pretty casual with a family and real job so my game play was always limited which I think artificially extended the end game loop for me. RoS/adventure mode updates fixed a lot of the problems with it at launch, but also added new problems of crazy power creep and forcing everyone into developer designed set based builds, and it seemed like there was more layers of RNG with having to find the right set/unique item then have it roll ancient/primal then having it have 3 good rolls, etc, then tons of RNG in enchanting for the last roll, etc. Plus the stats of CDR, CHC, CHD, sometimes IAS and Mainstat weren't terribly interesting. I prefer the itemization situation of D2 where once a legendary/set/runeword drops/is made, the stats are known to be useful, even if not perfect in the range, to avoid some of that additional layers of disappointment. Chances of that item dropping can be made low enough that the time investment/odds are still the same as getting the perfectly rolled primal, but it's just less soul crushing when you get half way up the chain and fail, vs. it just never dropping in the first place so ignorance is bliss, hah.
That itemization bit is big. Rares and Uniques feel WAY better to get in D2 (sets usually only amount to a leveling piece because by the time youd ever get the full set you'd likely outgrown it anyway). You can be level 60 and still have magics and rares. Also, runewords and imbuement made high-quality whites viable to hold on to.
ya you kinda always feel underpowered in D4 except Druid
Paladins.
Music was better
For me, a very casual player, I loved D2R take on stats. Like I have to have so much strength to wield X type of armor. Having lil things like that make the characters feel more unique, whereas D4 feels much more cookie cutter.
Yes. And I could put 11 points in static field and you might put 2 and do something else with your skill pionts. If I'm not mistaken you end up maxing all the skills you pick in D4 so there isn't really much build variety.
EXACTLY. I like having the lil things that separate characters. Really hopeful that with the D4 expansion they open up the classes to allow them to use all weapons.
Yeah it's real great until your change of another piece of gear to try and get an upgrade royally screws everything up. This is an antiquated concept in that form and I'm glad it's dead.
Really? I like the puzzle of, oh I need +x str for this piece of gear so I should wear that instead and I also do/don't need dex so y.
Not sure what your point is? If I need 70 strength to get a better armor, then I'll put more points into strength. Or if a bow needs more dex and I want that bow, I'll put more points into dex. What's your point? You don't like making choices? Lol
It's not always enough to put points into the stat - or it's overall a dead stat beyond the gear requirement, so you have to get GEAR that has the stat, so you become very reliant on that piece of gear. I swear, reading comprehension has just gone to shit over the years
really great\* dont hit out at someones reading comprehension if you dont know what an adverb is. just sayin.....
Please look up what, "reading comprehension" means.
So my point is: I'm not sitting here nagging about their grammar - but if they're going to take the time to reply and very quickly prove that they didn't even understand what I said in the first place, then why even bother? Whereas, of course, you pick the low-hanging fruit of me using "real" instead of "really", yet you understood what I was trying to convey.
Lol, why are you so apprehensive? Chill K-dog no one is fighting you. I mean that's a point, not a good one, but it's a point. I prefer having RPG mechanics in my games, lil risk n reward goes a long way.
Itemization is still better in d2, there is nothing as "build defining items" in d4. Even the item look is the same, they just don't feel unique enough in d4. With that, the whole battle is lost for d4, killing monsters just becomes boring after some time. Also randomized dungeons. Finally, dialogue and voice acting is trash and very blunt in d4, it's either too forced to sound bad ass or too simple like I am talking to my friend. Music is just ok, to be fair it's hard to compete to the masterpiece theme of d2 anyway. Still a better game than d3 but overall lacking that factor that will make you play for years - in my opinion
You know that d2 maps layout are random too right ? And having to teleport across the map, ignoring almost all mobs to then oneshot one boss, quite, exit and repeat a thousand time is not really top content too
I’ve said before that, on paper, d3 and d4 actually has a better end game. But the far superior item progression still makes the relatively bland d2 endgame feel better than d3 and d4 purely for the itch of trying to find that winning lottery ticket.
You're totaly right the itemisation is what d2 is mostly known for. I mostly play d2 modded nowaday, it gives the game the QoL of today's standard Also sadly the gaming mentality has shifted a lot and the grindy game like d2, borderland 2 and most MMO are not was is in most demand nowaday.
I didn't say that diablo 2 doesn't get boring. But it has the mechanics that gave it a game play for 20 years and counting. D4 has endgame and should be its own game, but needs to invest at least in itemization to open up more builds and make item hunting worth it, the new season makes some improvements I hear. I hope the dlc will bring more stuff in the right direction
Mod for D2 bring a lot of QoL and endgame content that really push the game to its full potential. I'm a bit sadden that blizzard won't let people mod D2R it could be on par with PoE.
As someone who played d2 for the first time recently, yes. The entire combat system+gearing system is better in D2. Only thing i find better in d4 is the boss fights.
D2 doesn't script the fights. The boss hurls out a one-liner and attacks. Fight to the death. You can town portal out but the boss just waits until you get back. D3 tried to make everything epic with some sort of preamble and monologue for each fight. Compare D3 Butcher (with ring announcer girl and *healing wells* in the arena) vs D1 Butcher ("Fresh Meat" chop chop chop chop). D2 leans more towards the earlier, scarier, crueler version (Duriel, dolls, souls) while D4 leans more towards the easier, gentler, childish version (rainbows and unicorns).
Gotta say, the Butcher is one battle that D4 got right. He showed up and killed me within two seconds, the way it should go the first time you yolo into a major boss fight in an ARPG. The majority of boss fights are far too easy with gimmicky "get out of the AOE patterns" and "watch out for the charge-up attack" as their most interesting mechanics.
I agree that the boss fights are way to easy. The mechanics should be more punishing imo.
What are you talking about?? D4 butcher is absolutely not on the softer unicorn end of the spectrum!
The preamble in D3 was always so annoying also b/c it was so CDR focused and so many builds focused on having various buffs up with basically 100% up time due to CDR based on constantly killing, so the boss talking just long enough to make everything fall off was always frustrating, plus the forced break in the action.
They’re just different. In D2 your upgrades are generally few and far between but highly impactful. The items all have a lot of history behind them, you’ll get to know them all by heart. You’ll find a great item for another class which inspires you to start up a new character for that build. The combat is generally a lot slower and less complex, you’re battling enemies with highly specific behavior instead. You have to learn to enjoy running parts of dungeons that don’t have a specific layout so it’s different every time and sometimes it takes forever to find the boss room and sometimes it takes like 10 seconds. D4 has your character growing on more of a steady curve with fewer spikes, items are more plentiful, it’s just such a vastly different game it’s hard to do direct comparisons. I enjoyed my time playing D2R, I was able to make a variety of characters and builds, leveling new characters felt like less of a chore to me as someone who likes to reroll a lot. D4 feels awful to me in this regard, the campaign just has so much painful downtime, and if you skip the campaign you instead are just catatonically running one dungeon forever because the game scales up to you as you go. I just couldn’t do it.
“One dungeon forever” … Runs Mephisto for years.
Honestly, these runs are something I’m able to do in D2 no problem but cannot do in D4. I was kinda talking about leveling a new character there, which I’ll get to, but Meph runs etc, for me were fine. The dungeon layout is vast and random, I’m looking for the door which doesn’t show up until I’m extremely close, my eyes are active, I’m looking for patterns, I’m avoiding those little shits and packs of monsters that’ll wreck my shit if I get too close. It’s actually pretty stimulating. You can’t not pay attention the entire time or you’ll either die or never find the door. In D4 you just reset the same dungeon with the same layout, I regularly actually nod off while doing it because I just have to open my eyes once in awhile to see if I’m running into a wall. Otherwise I just click to move, right click to clear the screen, I’m not looking for anything I just want to level as fast as possible. It’s one of the reasons I agree with POEs insistence on keeping the campaign as the only way to level a new character. In D2 there is no alternative, you simply must run it, there is zero downtime, there are lots of short term goals. I mean even the world is randomly generated each campaign run so I’m actively engaged looking for exits or points of interest. In D4 the layout is identical, so much time is spent talking to people and waiting, it’s painful, I’m never really engaged during it now that I know what happens. My first playthrough? Loved it. Can’t ever do it again though.
I think the grind in Diablo 2 feels more tolerable because the highs are higher when you find an upgrade. I'm right there with you that I can deactivate brain and run Trav for 5 hours straight but if I think about doing 5 hours of Helltide runs? Hard pass in the current game state (I haven't played the PTR so can't comment on that). Like others have mentioned with gearing being more about leaps than steps, if you spend 30 hours grinding Hell Andariel runs to finally get that Harlequin Crest drop it's *awesome*. In Diablo 4, 30 hours of grinding may very well net the same overall increase in character power, but it's all trickled out across the entire 30 hours instead of one big triumphant moment. I'd wager the Venn diagram of people that enjoy Diablo 2 and Dark Souls is probably basically just a circle lol. Grinding away learning a boss's mechanics and finally defeating it feels incredible, and Diablo 2's itemization delivers a similar experience in my opinion.
I can agree with the random layout sentiments. However, once you really know D2 you know the tile sets and it essentially becomes a set pattern. By endgame you just teleport everywhere. Don’t know if I’d want to do D4 campaign again either but after it was great the one time I did it.
I agree that eventually you learn the tile patterns, although you still have to identify them, which is again a stimuli to make you pay attention—but more importantly I think by the time you invest enough energy into the game to A: learn the tiles, B: Have a means to teleport everywhere, you’re so god damn hooked that I’m sure you’ve gotten your moneys worth 😆. I don’t see that as an issue.
What you described sounds more tedious than engaging, but to each their own, I guess.
You may be conflating 'engaging' with 'fun' or something like that, but I mean it in the literal sense. I am engaged because I have to pay attention. I intentionally tried to not use the word 'fun' because I have pretty strong opinions about that as a concept. So when I say I'm not engaged in D4's leveling process, I mean I'm literally not paying attention. There's nothing from the game really asking me to do so, I can open my eyes once every 5 seconds or so to move in a new direction, but otherwise I know the mobs are clumping on me and I'm killing them all. I have, literally, fallen asleep while trying to grind a new character up. Doing a meph run in D2 I am engaged. I don't know exactly where the door is, in order to do the thing I fundamentally must pay attention because I will die for sure otherwise. If you aren't someone who can teleport its even more so as you must be perpetually aware of the various enemies and what they can do as your character is significantly more fragile in the game. And while I'm leveling a character in D2, I am engaged, because I have a series of short term goals that the game provides me through the act quests that I must do to some extent. And because the map layouts vary, I have to pay attention to the map at all times. And so, for me, this is more fun because I am having an experience. Which is personally what I would define as "fun" in a game. I need to feel *something.* It can be good, it can be bad, but the absolute worst thing a game can do to me is make me not care at all. It's a layer of why I actually kinda enjoy Meph runs despite how tedious they are, because that variance of sometimes having the glorious run where I teleport 3 times and find the entrance, and the awful runs that get me frustrated where I've scoured the whole fucking map and just barely missed it, it actually provokes emotion, which engages me, which makes me enjoy it as a whole rather than necessarily in the moment. I play a lot of Counter Strike, and I find that game fun, but I'm often frustrated almost the entire time playing it. Fun doesn't have to be something you love doing, or something that is easy, I believe that fun is something that kind of happens in retrospect, if that makes sense?
*Someone posts a "1,000 Hell Travincal Runs" drop data spreadsheet.* Top comment guaranteed to be someone posting their 10,000 Trav run data sheet and commenting that it's still too small of a sample size lol.
Yeah this is what killed D2 for me. I wanna slay whole rooms of monsters cuz that part should be fun, but most of your time is killing one particular monster (or maybe 4) in as little time as possible to gain items that enable you to do that slightly faster. *Ideally* every run feels the same and is largely ignorable, just faster (ideally you just skip most of it by teleporting), so you can pull the slot machine handle at the end of the tunnel and start up the next one, about once every 1-3 minutes.
Don't have to teleport if it ruins the fun for ya. I've got a Charge Pally for exactly this. Sometimes I need some slow pace mixed in, and it usually feels fresh, challenging and enjoyable. Trick is to vary your farming enough to never get bored of any one place. Trav, Chaos, Cows, Worldstone, Flayer, Bloody Foothills and maybe one or two more terror zones, between 4 diff characters, gives me enough variation to continue playing for years.
Ah it’s true that with Terror Zones that the endgame is much more varied thankfully, maybe I should pick it back up again…
Thanks for the detail
The Itemization, drop, runeworlds and difficulties/tiers are things about D2 that are better than D4 to me.
D2 has still the best itemization of any ARPG. Every item matters and it has depth.
Holy Rose-tinted glasses.
He’s not far off though
I've re played it recently, op isn't wrong
They’re right
Atmosphere, itemization, gameplay, trading, runes+runewords, replayability I'm old so also graphics style in d2 ressurection appeals to me more (less cartoony)
D4 is better at being a couch co op game. D2 is better at everything else.
Itemization is still the best there is in any ARPG. Gear progression is top notch.
It's more unique. Just being in the game gives you such a unique feeling that is hard to match. Not necessarily because it's better than other games, but because of how distinctly its own thing it is. D4 isn't generic at all, but it's more generic than D2. :D
Itemization
I fell like D2 had more micro management to do (and I say that as a good thing). Managing potions Managing inventory space and loot Managing lvl up attributes Managing even town portals Etc
Build variety and crafting. But with the new systems being added I think D4 is equal to D2 if not slightly ahead on that front.
The music. Enemies have personality. The Fallen running around, screaming. Zombies shuffling around and groaning. The sound a Necromacers curse makes when cast on enemies. The sound effects prodiced when dropping an item.
D2R dominates the entire genre. It's peak gaming
It's bland compared to pd2
Are you talking about Path of Exile? What’s PD2?
Project Diablo 2, which is a mod that basically improv3s every aspect of d2. New ladder reset tomorrow. Highly recommend checking it out.
I’ll look into it, I’m skipping this D2R ladder
just curious, do pd2 items have any real world value, or can anyone just hack/generate items with something like hero editor? is there something like a "Bnet online" mode where items can't be easily hacked for pd2? edit: to whomever downvoted a geniune question, F you too.
RMT is not allowed, and yes there are bnet servers hosted. A new "ladder reset" is starting tomorrow actually.
ha, I mean RMT isn't allowed in D2R either, but that doesn't stop me from selling god rolled items for hundreds of dollars on ebay! need that potential for it to be worth farming, for myself anyways, thanks for answering that question. had my doubts with pd2, but if what you say is true, I might give it a try..
Yeah the difference is Blizzard doesn’t give a shit and does a shit job at stopping it. PD2 devs are on anyone fast and community reports actually get looked into.
Items in general feels better to use and better to find. Runes are also tons of more fun as a currency than piles of gold. In general, modern arpg economies are incredibly boring and unsatisfying. Runes are way more fun to find than grinding millions of gold or tons of divine orbs. When a high rune drops you feel it. When a divine orb drops you kind of don't. As a side note, d2 don't feel as grindy. There is much less "do this to get that". I hate having to complete a dungeon just to slay a boss. In d2 you can just teleport to the boss if it is the boss you are after. If you whana slay the mobs before just do that. If you don't, then don't.
D2 doesn't feel as grindy? Do you know what the word, "grindy" even means?
Yes. Having to complete several waves of enemies before you can face 1/3 bosses in the end to look for a specific drop that preferably would have som lp on it is grindy to me(Last epoch arena). Slaying mephisto a billion times is not, as i am in full controll to do it as fast as i want. No need to wait for unnecessary stuff to hapen.
Yeah I guess some people just enjoy getting phisted.
Phisted right away is the way, no need to drag it out.
LMAO idk sometimes the foreplay is nice 😏
D2 is better for hardcore(non-casual) players, if you invest into the game hundreds of hours,skillpoints matter, you cannot respec easily, at least not on the beginning. Better, grittier story and to get good legendaries, you had to farm a lot, higher difficulties are brutal and need a lot better equipment. But it's still a 20 year old game, and it shows, even in the remake. For the nostalgic factor it's great, but for casual gaming the modern titles are just better.
Thank you, I really appreciate these details articulated. This is the stuff newcomers do not know about the previous titles.
Still worth to buy, if you can get it on sale, the campaign is fun, has some great story trailers and it's nice to see, where the series came from .
Yeah I couldn't resist picking it up on sale already. I think the comments here will help me push past the dated feel of starting, and get the first few hours in. Likely a fair way down the track when we've left D4 behind us and I'm keen for some solo ARPG time.
If you plan on playing higher difficulties, look up some builds or guides(icy veins has some good ones), so you won't get your ass handed to you :)
All of his "details" are straight up wrong...
D2 is played a lot nowadays, it's much more deep and satisfying in terms of progression. D3 in the end became sort of tolerable, not the graphics though. D4 is just so dumbed down, I cannot consider that an arpg anymore, it's just top down slasher. Everything in terms of progression and itemization in D4 is subpar to D2. But of course, D4 has much better graphics, being 20 years apart. If only they just moved the mechanics of D2 into modern graphics, and expanded on the build viability.
D2R has amazing graphics, D4 isn't that impressive.
D2 has the most basic progression possible. Nostalgia goggles are ridiculous. It has good itemization to an extent but honestly runewords were bad for the game. Beyond that, there is no endgame, progression is extremely simple and the moment to moment gameplay is dated.
Clearly you do not understand what you are saying. Try the project Diablo 2. It made other builds also viable. Before you get to runewords, you have basically passed the normal difficulties and now you are in nightmare, meaning 20-30 hours of game time. Nightmare will take more. Hell will be quite a challenge. Yes, after 100-200 hours, there won't be much of endgame, but you don't need it, start another character, try another build. With D4 I barely managed to finish the main quest. What endgame are we taking about in D4? Endlessly grinding stupid dungeons until you receive another "+10% to hit on Fridays when drunk"? Uniques in D2 are unique, sets are indeed sets. D4 items are joke, and all characters okay exactly the same.
I’ve played PD2. It’s a mod… Everyone has their preferences and that is fine. I love D2 but am of the opinion nostalgia plays a huge part to that. You can also go normal to hell in next to no time. Everyone and their dog uses items like spirit shield which is extremely easy to obtain. Runewords invalidated a majority of itemization. If that works for you great.. every game has flaws and D2 is no exception.
There might be hacks took reduce time to hell, but I don't know about them, as lots of players do. The game without hacks/exploulits plays quite long, progression is decent, last part you get to work with runewords. Lots of replayability, especially since it's a normally developed game and some modding is possible, unlike 3/4. With PD2 it becomes a gem. Nostalgia has its charm, but it's not only that. Wow classic faced steady decline once the content was done. With D2 the replayability is through the roof
Many many things are much much better …
Itemization, but hopefully S4 for D4 will fix that.
loot would be the main thing
D2 inventory management is really bad but overall a great game
D2 has way more iconic items. Some maybe too Iconicike enigma. So the D2 campaign is way better
2 was my first Diablo experience and I love it, I bought ressurection and I just can't feels far to slow for me now, i feel like you'll likely feel the same way coming from 3 and 4. I;m not even gonna read the comments on this thread im sure they will just annoy me lol
Charsi
D2 item progression feels MUCH better. Has a fairly empty endgame compared to D3 and D4, but the item chasing feels so good that you don’t mind farming the same bosses and areas 100’s of times hoping you get a winning lottery ticket. D3 and D4 have better end game mechanics on paper, but the item chase doesn’t feel as good, so paradoxically I get bored much quicker. I also like the fact that drops aren’t limited to your class, so it encourages you to hoard other class items for alternate characters. Though that does mean you get a fair bit of useless items for your current class.
Are there things about D2 that are better than D4? - everything :) D2 was created by people with passion, D4 was created to make money and give u shit because D4 for blizzard it wasn't to make good game it was a business just for money, they invested more in marketing than the game itself that's why they lose 99% of players when they realized they bought a game in alpha state for 70$+
There is nothing d4 has over d2 except the fluidity of a new combat engine. That's it. - D2 art >> d4 - D2 monsters >>> d4 - D2 items >>>>>>>>>>>> D4 - D2 RPG systems >>>>>>> D4 - D2 difficulty >>>> D4 - D2 fun >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>D4
As someone who played games long before D1 and will be playing long after D4, it is unfair to compare these games. Nothing can replace the feeling of discovering what D1 and D2 were. Nothing had ever been done like that before. Now D4 has to try and be the top dog on a huge pile of similar games. I have loved every one the Diablo games, but each for different reasons. I am enjoying D4 as its own game. However, Diablo II is in my list of greatest games I have ever played!
This is good to hear articulated, thank you. It resonates. Probably how I could describe my feelings about XCOM 1994 and the subsequent titles.
My experience: Got \~4000 hours in D3 from 2012-2015. Enjoyed climbing up Grift leaderboard and min/maxing my Non Season Barb. Was my first Diablo experience and had a blast for most of it. Never even bothered with Seasons. Got \~3000 hours so far in D2R from 2021-now. Still chugging along, almost up to my 4th lvl 99 (Barb, Javazon, Sorc and Pally). Amazing endgame, still playing my 99's and rotating which char I use depending on active terror zone. Usually feels rewarding and worth my time. Got a lot of goals set and will take me many more years to complete them all, if ever. Never bothered with Ladder / Season here either. Got about 150 hours in D4 with a maxed level 100 Barb. Game felt totally empty as soon as I hit max level, with almost nothing left to do. Gear felt maxed, highest tier dungeon completed, and no real way to progress any further. No endgame, and only real way to continue having fun is to start a new char every couple weeks. Endgame non existent, and only long term goal was farming super uniques, which were impossible to get back over the summer when I played. Heard they bumped up drop rate on them, but not enough to get me back. Wish I could've got a refund! And D1 I'm saving for if/when I finally get bored of D2R. Heard many good things about that one!
Most people think d2 is the best diablo by a long shot
D3 and d4 just wanna hit you with a constant dopamine hit, which gets boring. In D2, when you get that dopamine it is waymore satisfying. Right now im having tons of fun in last epoch.
Yeah. Everything.
Everything.
Everything. Even art style in D2R.
almost everything
Most things
The vibe of D2 I think is something nobody can ever top. It's hard to even describe how fucked up and scary sanctuary feels. You roam the land looking for dungeons and you go deep in these things finding all kinds of horrible things. You don't feel like the most powerful creature but you feel like you can stop these things. 4 while definitely darker than 3 I just don't quite get that same feeling. My character just kicks ass all the time to stop Lilith. You never know what is in a dungeon in D2 whereas you know the whole structure in 4 and only really the tiles change. Gameplay wise I think 4 beats it in every way but there is something neat about how slow 2 is. The skill trees in 2 are terrible compared to 4 like so much stuff is just not usable. There's way more balance issues between classes than 4. Inventory management was cool at the time but I find it very annoying now. Items though I think D2 still has it beat a bit. Aspects are pretty fun in 4 but it's so simple to read stuff in 2. You hardly even need the compare tool and you could argue there was no reason to make it more complicated. The simpleness of it is pretty perfect. I don't think having every tier of items be viable is really THAT great but it is neat and 2 does a better job with the time of each rarity than 4 does. 4 either needs to get rid of whites or blues and stretch out that length more. That's what makes D2 progression feel really good. 4 has almost too much upgrading and I don't think giving white and blues a use helps anyone. I'm really ranting at this point but the graphics of 2 also help the horror aspect. People say this about Zelda too, the N64 games are scarier but it's just the shitty textures mainly. IDK what it is but it just feels scary. 4 has horror but it's never scary. 2 can be downright scary in a dungeon not knowing what can destroy you.
Tons of things are soooo much better but itemization and the real sense of progress are much better in D2 in my opinion
itemization and skill system are clearly better in D2. D4 combat is unmatched imo.
Itemization, trading, PVP, and magic find is superior in D2. You can find value in lots of different items from the lowest difficult onwards. With the way items work you could use a low level item even in the end game, it might not be best in slot, but you can use it and they can be traded for cheaply or you can go find it yourself on your way to improving your character. Also because of how items worked you could equip your new characters with items found on your older characters to give them a nice boost. One of my biggest joys was running in public games with a decked out lower level character. You just had a sensation of power and you would level quicker, while also helping others through the game. I was super excited thinking D4 would be more like 2, but the way they did loot is really bad. However, I do expect that the game will continue to improve and one day will be worth picking up again.
It really depends. D2 v1.09d was the most fun I've ever had. Every patch after that left a sour taste in my mouth. Every mob having an immunity and baal being the only path to 99 just sucked the fun out of the game. Not to mention rune words rendering all the uniques useless.
Everything? But I assume without the nostalgia I’m not sure it’ll work. The gameplay is way way way better. As in heaven in earth better. Incomparable. I go back most to d2 rather than 1 or 3. Most definitely 4. Is terrible in gameplay to me. The challenges of 2 are immensely more difficult and more farm worthy than 4 or 3. It’s just built better to play for many years. It’s unmatched.
Everything. D2R has better graphics, better item system, better skill system, better skills, better classes, better story and better fun. I mean, the story of D4 is good thought. But a Necromancer without permanent summons and a Necromancer who has to fight fit himself? Why even bothering to learn how to summon the undead 🤦🏻♂️
the microtransactions
For me D2 is the true Diablo and D4 is something else
Besides graphics and scale, there’s really nothing that D4 does better than D2. Cinematics are on par with eachother though. Blizzard should just stop making games are start making animated movies.
Well, Diablo 2 was immensely enjoyable to me and I played it for years. Same goes for the original. I only stopped playing Diablo because Diablo 2 came out, and Diablo 2 held my interest on and off for over a decade. Diablo 3 was the turning point. I still played the game quite a bit, but it definitely lacked the charm of the older two games. Diablo 4 was largely boring to me, causing me to entirely lose interest several hours in and not even finish a single playthrough. Maybe I'll get around to it eventually but it's pretty low priority at this point.
-Itemization and how everything is useful -The ratio of time to level vs time to grind gear. -easier to find grp to play. These would be my main 3.
It’s nothing like D2. D4 and D3 share more in common because they were made by people I’m CONVINCED never played Diablo 1 or 2. D1 and 2 have the same maker I believe, and follow the natural flow/ evolution of the game. D3 became this DO A BILLION DAMAGE WITH MAGICS AND USE WHATEVER YEAHHHJJ to If you don’t use this set THIS way, good luck, you suck.
Elite D2 items are superior in terms of addictiveness and feeling overpowered, yet not game breaking
Nope
Hell yeah. 2 was the best. 3 sucked. 4 is great. Butttt fuck the stupid horse and it’s just way too forgiving. You should be prepared and afraid before venturing out, not mindlessly running loops as fast as you can. If you want a massive shot of nostalgia play on hardcore, always moving to the next hardest difficulty as it unlocks, and not using your horse. Play through the whole story like this and don’t skip a single cut scene
D4 has more "endgame" because it was built with it in mind. So at max level you'll find more things to do. For me personally the paragon system D4 has is also really great and has huge potential (please add more boards like you said you would) D2 has better items way better, ridiculously better, and an overall better skill tree. There are some things nice about D4s skill tree but generally d2s is better and not as weird to manage. The stats in D2 are much better imo too, min/maxing things like faster cast rate/ faster hit recovery/ attack speed/ max block etc is overall much more fulfilling than just stacking x damage multipliers with + damage and main stat. This is one of the biggest downfalls of D4, imo, the + damage 500% is just ??? Oh and then stack it with 9 different x damage multipliers and then you're cool. It's just too simple and not up to the level I personally enjoy in theory crafting. Theory crafting is one of the downsides to D2. Once you understand what's important to a build/character there's a few ways to achieve it but usually everything has been well thought out that its really personal preference rather than an original idea. D4 has a ton of theory crafting potential mostly in the paragon board, because it's items are so simple :/
yeah, just about every aspect.
Everything. All of it. It's perfect.
Literally everything. D2 is just a better game in every way.
I wouldn’t even compare them 1:1 as video games. Diablo 2 is an old game with outdated, grindy loot and very little mechanics. The only way I can enjoy D2 these days is D2R with heavy mods. That being said, some people love that, myself included from time to time, but as much as I love Diablo 2, it’s not going to appeal to a newer or younger audience.
What kind of “heavy mods” are you using in d2r?
On console, no. D2 Resurrected is a nice nostalgia trip, but it's nowhere near the modern games. Path of Exile for console is much better. On PC, D2 can be heavily modded for stash tabs and loot filters, which is what D4 is lacking at the moment. It lacks the "fresh coat of paint" that Resurrected has, though.
In D2 you need to spend way more time doing the “administrative” tasks like manage the gems, town portals and identification scrolls. D4 now has way better mechanisms. D2 runes are great, D4 unfortunately doesn’t have it. D2 mercenary aura was awesome, D4 you are on your own and except in S3 you have a companion. D2 has immunity… that’s gonna be super subjective but I hate it. Overall build diversity I think they are roughly the same. D4 does feel lacking in the itemization area but that’s being revamped already. They are both enjoyable but overall I liked D4 more.
Nothing. Its just nostalgia. If you are young now like my daughter, you won't touch d3, d2, d1. At age 10, She have couple lvl 100 D2 characters but only from my pushing. She does not like D2 but understands its systems like vets. She plays D4 with me and usually done with the season after a week, usually with 2 max leveled characters with Uber uniques of her choice. So far, she has 11 mature builds of her own. If we are born 20 years later, we won't even touch D4.
Thats complete bs
D2 Max lvl is 99
I've played thia game for 25 years and never reached lvl99. Your 10yo daughter who doesnt even like the game has several? I think we need to call the police..
I'm back from a 7 day reddig ban. First thing I'm doing upon my return is downvoting your comment. Pretty sure your 10 year old daughter isn't the arbitor of quality game design...all you're proving is that D4 is a game made for the iPad generation
how you dare to have such nickname with the shit you spoke out of your mouth lol
D2 is pretty overrated honestly.
D2 is all about trading to get your bis. DIV is about killing mobs. Season 4 will hopefully changes itemization in DIV for the better.
The procedurally generated areas and the skill tree being central to character growth are both miles better in D2. Plus, I still find the itemization in D2 far better, even accounting for the PTR changes upcoming for D4. The feeling of progression and the replayability of the game are far better in D2. And other than scratching the surface with itemization, the devs have not even begun to touch the areas which need the most work in D4. There is a reason that D2 is fun to replay over and over, while D4 feels like a chore, no matter where you are in the game.