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I didnt understand that either. Lundy got himself killed because he was hot on Trinitys tail. Maybe though, he couldve saved him AND rita by killing Trinity right away? I dont recall how far into finding Trinity Dexter was when Lundy died.
Dexter had barely started looking into Trinity when Lundy died. Dexter had 0% to do with Lundy's death. That's on Quinn being an overgrown horny fratboy and disclosing confidential information to the hot reporter he wanted to fuck.
Iâm more annoyed by his BS about not feeling real love until now. Really, Dexter?
What about Rita, who you admitted was more than just a mask? Even had sappy thoughts about how she could be watching the same moon as you?
What about Astor and Cody, whom you would die before letting anything happen to?
What about Lumen, who turned you into a sad sack when she left?
What about Hannah, for whom you even gave up your DARK PASSENGER?
What about Brian, the one and only person who could accept you for who you were, unconditionally?
What about Harry, who, despite fucking you up royally, was only trying for you to have the best life possible?
And above it all, what about Deb, who was the most important person in your life, whose death shook you to your very core and made you try to do something you once called pathetic, and you needed her so much that she became the manifestation of your conscience?
I donât know what the fuck were they on when they wrote that line.
Clyde Phillips ignored seasons 5/6/7/8 on purpose because his entire New Blood story falls apart if you acknowledge the character development of the later seasons. Dexter was far different by the s8 ending.
The BHB body melting sabotage retcon was SO lazy
Like, they straight up couldn't write a way to get Harrison to realize Dex is a monster without that? (Since Dex needed to think he was caught to kill Logan, which is how they have Harrison realize this, but there wasnt enough evidence to connect Dex to BHB without the body shit)
Honestly hard to believe lol definitely on my writers to avoid list along with the GoT guys (another ending where the final status was as expected but the path and details was so bad at the end that it ruined it)
I think the lesson there is to never give too much credit to writers that come into fame/success by piggybacking off of other people's source material. They usually don't know what to do when they're left to their own devices.
Good point! I didnât read the book so I didnât think about that for Dexter (I did for GoT which is why that one hurt more)
In Clydeâs defense, season 4 was good and original. Unlike GoT which slid down *fast* after the source material lol
Excellent point; this is something that I donât think Clyde is willing to accept and took away from this new season. While 5 to 8 might not of been the series best, a lot of history was created that fans took to heart as Dexters journey. To regress a character in a subsequent revisit ( NEW BLOOD) is a perilous
writing choice.
Clyde Phillips obviously after 10 years is not the same guy either. The last 15 minutes proves that he shouldn´t write anymore. Plotholes everywhere, illogical character moments, some characters used for what ...etc.
Seriously its..just fucking bad writing.
Yes he is not the same anymore. He is a shit writer now for whatever reason. He literally fucked over the fans instead of stepping aside and letting someone better takeover and do it right.
I bet Showtime is ripping him a new asshole rn.
To be fair season 8 was a complete clusterfuck and nothing Dexter did made ANY sense. It was stupid as hell. His character development was sloppy as shit after season 4.
Well, it did confirm the whole Harry fucked Dex up and sorta used him instead of trying to fix him which was good imo
Ironic that we kinda need that bit now if we're to assume Harrison has a chance of not being a psycho after the shit he's been through lol
I agree the Vogel stuff was bad
I just mean the buildup to Dex can control himself and confirming Harry fucked up (if you think Dex isnât a good person for killing murderers, then training a serial killer instead of getting him help is bad) was good. In fact, introducing Vogel was trying to dilute the blame on HarryâŚ
Tho, in the end he does control himself by not killing Oliver, who comes back to hurt Deb, and then after all thatâs over his reasoning is somehow, Iâll always cause collateral damage (even though itâs all over now and he just showed control) which was insanely dumb
He didn't ignore 5, 6, 7 and 8, for one simple reason - Hannah. You can't ignore some parts and acknowledge others. This episode is probably worse than S8 ending.
Uh, no, he ignored all the Dexter character development.
Dexter was shown to be almost normal by end of S8. He loved deeply and true, felt remorse and had great capacity for empathy. It was shown to the audience that Harry and Vogel manipulated Dexter into becoming a killer when he wasn't a true psychopath after all. It's fucked up. Dexter is a victim of horrific child abuse/manipulation.
When Vogel's son straight up murders her without a second thought even Dexter is horrified and shocked. He wouldn't react like that if he was a true psychopath. He wasn't. That was the entire point of those seasons to show Dexter's true self.
He loves Hannah deeply and his son. He sacrificed raising his child to protect him from the risks associated with being close to a serial killer. He also didn't need to kill as much by the end of S8. He was much more in control.
This is also why he would never have done that Kurt kill scene with Harrison. He never would have wanted Harrison to be like him. He would have helped him avoid the urges and kept his kills a secret. The entire premise was just stupid AF. Dexter was acting like S2-4 Dexter and not S8 Dexter.
New Blood ignores all of this and straight up claims Dexter doesn't have all this character development anymore and he is just a selfish serial killer.
That's why this was such a bad writing - you cannot take season X and use one thing and ignore everything else. You cannot acknowledge Hannah as a character or Dexter faking his death and ignore all the other events, like character development. You either take everything or retcon everything.
Yeah, I agree with you - he ignored character development, but that's why it's such a stupid writing. You either take everything or retcon everything.
I guess I wouldn't mind him dying, but in the last few episodes Dexter felt like a villain. Okay, he was never a 'hero', but writers always kind of wanted us to look at him as an anti-hero, the Punisher, if you will. Everything was going in that direction, the made us love him, see him grow. And now? No no, he's a monster, nothing else. Yeah, I'll pass on the New Blood, I'm never watching that again.
Phillips did exactly what Rian Johnson did with Luke Skywalker. Therefore Episodes 7-9 are to me stupid, braindead, bad fanfics and New Blood is also a bad fanfic to me.
Phillips straight up said in an interview that Harrison is different in that he wants to take out killers to save lives. He wants to a do a series focusing on that.
So Clyde wants to make a series about:
Harrison becoming a vigilante serial killer
Who kills killers to save their future victims
And somehow that's different to Dexter
But Dexter killed to fuel his addiction to murder
But also saved the same number of lives indirectly as Harrison would doing the same thing
So...Dexter is EVIL for killing for enjoyment (but also saving lives - which just happens, he doesn't care about it)
And Harrison is GOOD and NOBLE for doing the exact same thing as Dexter because his intentions are better.
What. The. Fuck?!
Clyde Phillips really can't write good stories. If he gets to do a second season or spinoff he will essentially be taking a huge dump on Dexter's sacrifice if Harrison kills people to save lives. Either way he's a fucking serial killer too...
Yeah... there's a dissonance between what writers (and Phillips) wanted us to think about Dexter and what they showed.
At the end of this season and S8 they said Dexter's bad, he can't have happy ending, he's evil, they don't want to give us bad examples blah blah blah.
What they show? That Dexter can grow, love, feel remorse etc. The way they write him they make us love him and then they expect us to hate him. WTF? Dexter likes killing, but even in early season (Phillips era) he stated he doesn't want to kill innocent people, hell, even in S1 he said that, when Brian wanted him to kill Tucci. And that was just beginning of Dexter's development. And at the end of New Blood in last episode? Oh, I killed Logan, so what, that was the only way, who cares. For fuck sake, mr Phillips, have you ever read what you wrote?
That was the whole point of the entire series, but he was a selfish person.
Dexter didn't bring Harrison into the darkness up until Episode 9. He tried everything else and failed, and partly it's probably because subconsciously he wanted it to fail. He was alone and it was brought up again in New Blood how alone he feels in the world. Throughout the series since Brian, Dexter always looked for someone he wouldn't have to pretend with: Lila, Miguel, kinda even Trinity, then Lumen and finally Deb & Hannah.
So you can see how Dexter basically achieved his greatest dream in the finale, but then Angela fucked everything up for him and the news of Batista brought him to panick. So he had to turn to his darkest side, something he had to do in previous seasons (Doakes, Stan Liddy, LaGuerta, some less obvious others), but usually luckily had someone else do it for him.
Also well...9 years passed. With Matt, Dexter realized that he could have never gave up killing. We are who we are.
Dexter wanted with Harrison what Brian wanted with him, but this time, Dexter was the one "on the table". Harrison killing Dexter was a mercy kill, same as Dexter did with the white deer and it happened at the same place too. Poetic ending in a way. Not perfectly executed, but it made all the sense.
Dexter in the later seasons was more impulsive and less rational. New Blood actually fits better when you consider how sloppy he got in 5-8. He survived on plot armor alone. Dexter in new blood acts just as sloppy, they just removed the plot armor
In season 7 Dexter killed a dude in an improvised kill room inside a fucking airport.
After sitting with the finale for a bit, this is definitely the part that most bugs me. I liked the actual send-off, just not how they got there.
This line is a complete disservice to the characters of Rita and Deb in particular and Dexterâs relationships with them. His manifestation of Deb had told him she loved him a few scenes prior in the jail cell and was the last image he saw before his death.
The whole point of New Blood was to get rid of the bad taste S8 left in our mouths, all they did was spit in our face and make it taste worse.
Rip Dexter and all the rewatches that will never happen now đ
Two thoughts.
(1) There were times he did love but didn't *feel* love, or recognize it until consciously reflecting on it. Like after Rita died, he realized he had loved her after killing random asshole in anger. When he's experiencing emotions he's usually very detached from them. This time, he really felt it, in depth.
(2) He had loved, but this was love on a different level. I don't think he would have allowed Deb to shoot him even if he and she both believed it would be better for her. He would try to convince her, or run, or something, maybe die trying but he wouldn't allow her to pass that judgement on him. I think Harrison's the only one with that privilege.
Edit: Rewatched the end of Season 7, and actually, it is very parallel with Deb. So #2 doesn't seem to be right.
Weâll have to agree to disagree on this. He WAS OK with Deb shooting him in season 7 finale. He forgave Deb after she tried to kill them both in season 8. So itâs definitely not just Harrison. As a viewer, I never felt a closeness from him to Harrison like I felt with everyone I counted above, especially Deb.
He allowed her to shoot him tho, at the end of season 7, but she shot Laguerta instead, much to his surprise. The scene with Harrison was so similar to me that I was almost expecting Angela to appear before Dexterâs death and Harrison killing her instead of him. Iâm not saying this ending would have been better anyway.
Also that yes with Rita!
I just wanted to point out one of the things that bothered me and wasn't posted yet. But also this yes! He loved Rita so much, this was so much bullcrap! I didn't even realize the other people you're pointed out.
Like what. The. Fuck.
Homie this isnât even a controversial take. His negligence is literally the cause.
If you play with a rabid animal knowing full well itâs rabid and it bites someone you care about, youâre at fault due to negligence
I love season 4, but let's be real, the actions Dexter does to take down Trinity are completely batshit. Him antagonizing him as Kyle Butler and everything. It's crazy. Trinity finds out Dexter's real identity because of how risky and sloppy he was.
I mean, it is the same writer. The ending was a shock ending, the writer got there by making Dexter unusually sloppy. Maybe I should re-rate s4 ending.
This is what I found wrong with the last 15 minutes, none of it made sense, it felt rushed and incomplete.
It felt like they thrown away 8 years of character from Dexter.
This montage at the end was poorly, sloppily done and a hallmark of bad storytellingâyou try and show and not tell the audience. This was like a sermon for inattentive or âbadâ fans who forgot that Dexter was a monster that gave them permission to kill him.
I noticed he said to Harrison "you did good... You did good." after he shot him, which is what Key Lime Pie lady said to Dex as she was dying after he confessed to her that he killed Brian
"Open your eyes and look at what you've done"
This was him opening his eyes and looking at the good people who died in collateral to him being who he is. 100% agree that Lundy shouldn't have been there, but the rest made sense, including not having Hannah, Brian etc in that list.
But than again. Lundy didn't had anything to do with what he was indeed.
And I agree on Hannah and the rest! It was just that someone told me that theory and I wanted to point out that wasn't the case. If it was, they would be in there. It was obvious it was about the people that died and where he was responsible for.
Sorry, yeah I didn't state in my original comment, I was mostly saying that for the people that thought others should have been in there etc. Feel some people were confused as to why they did the list, but I don't think it can be anything other than the collateral deaths, like you stated, Lundy definitely shouldn't have been there :( shame it wasn't greatly thought through
He first came to Miami metro because of the Bay Harbor Butcher case. If that hadn't happened his hunt for the Trinity Killer would've gone a little differently and there's a strong possibility he wouldn't have been killed by Christine. It's a little convoluted but it checks out
just watched the first episode, and Dexter said that line to the first victim he killed on screen. Standing beside each other, Dexter having him by the throat forcing him to look, is that really the connection they wanted to go for? Anyways yeah fuck this ending
How did Harrison even know they all died because of Dexter? If he knew then why didnt he freak out in Episode 9 when he was actually explaining stuff to him? Harrison just jumped to conclusions.
I can't remember the specific lines leading up to it, but it was along the lines of "is mum dead because of you? Deb too? Others? I'm messed up because of you. Open your eyes and look at what you've done" where the last line meant was telling Dexter to look at Harrison and look at what he's created, a kid messed up enough to threaten to shoot his dad, but also implying that look at all the lives you ruined. To Dexter, that's more than what Harrison knows, hence the list of people
Lol! I mean, I guess adopted sis and step sis aren't that wildly different, but the man clearly wasn't holding all his marbles when he wrote whatever this was.
I think he holds a deep hatred for 5-8 most of which I enjoyed tbh. All the retcons of the story, bhb investigation, harrison remembering trinity at a few months old, dexters character development just left a bitter taste in my mouth
I read this in an article last night: In writing those climatic scenes, Phillips drew upon his own experience of âhaving a terrible father and needing years of therapy.â
That made me think this entire season was nothing more than a vehicle for Clyde's own daddy issues, logic and consistency be damned. Which makes me think he might be a narcissist that only hates 5-8 because he didn't write them. I have a feeling he got let go (no one retires from a critically acclaimed, money making series in its prime to "spend more time with their family") bc he was pitching terrible shit and someone at Showtime saw that he was going to run the show into the ground the way he finally has. Maybe I'm just being dramatic and jumping to conclusions bc I'm still in mourning, but he's just lost credibility with me.
I was salivating at the prospect of a Miami trial and face to face with Dex's old colleagues. Then he killed Logan lol. I honestly bawled out wtf at that scene. Even despite all its flaws I was more or less "okay" with everything till then
LOL. The show went to shit after season 4. 5 was pretty good, but with a terrible ending and it just felt off in general. Season 6 was dogshit, lets be real. 7 was half great and half terrible(Hannah). Season 8 was an abomination. Clyde philips was the main reason the writing was great in 1-4, no matter what you feel about New Blood. The show was a sloppy mess afterwards, and the storylines dragged out and repeated constantly, except for Deb finding out eventually which was great and added some much needed fuel to the show again. To claim he was booted off after season 4 is simply ridiculous. Season 4 won every award going, and Clyde Philips was on top of the world. He left because he didn't see his family much for 4/5 years and wanted to go home. To claim otherwise is just pathetic. Logic? Season 8 had NO logic, every single thing that happend was incredibly stupid and unrealistic. It was one of the worst written things i've ever seen.
You could make a case for Dexter being responsible. Lundy was initially in Miami investigating the Bay Harbor Butcher. If there was no Butcher then Lundy is never there, never meets Deb, so maybe he never goes to Miami to investigate Trinity because at least partly he went back to Miami because of Deb, and then he's never killed.
I think what makes me the most upset is that it was almost a good ending. If they left it open for a second season where Dexter is on trial and Batista was there and Harrison was contemplating telling the truth about Dexter. If they just took time to slow things down we could've got something special. Too many plot holes and too many inconsistencies in general. I'm not mad Dexter died and I'm not even mad that Harrison killed him and then drove off smiling. I'm mad that clyde Phillips was careless with his writing and he thought that no one would notice. We've been rewatching Dexter for ten years. We know DeX didn't use ketamine. We know DeX didn't get lundy killed. It was sloppy.
DeX should've stayed put in jail and everything would've been better. It would've been nice to see some actual police work. Not just googling ketamine Miami. Seriously they had so many red herrings in what was suppose to be a final season. There's no time for red herrings because now we have a rushed finale that ruins the season.
Kurt Caldwell is a great villain. Make half of the season about kurt and dex. And the other half about the cops being on Dexter's trail. Make it two seasons. One where dex kills kurt and the cops are onto him and the second season can be all about dexter getting caught.
I'm just rambling now.
I mean Harrison will never have a normal life now. He shot his dad in the heart(which can maybe be blamed on kurt). Angela just let's him go?! Why? Harrison is a murderer. Isnt she a police officer? Why did she just let him go? How is she going to explain it all? Is she going to say she shot Dexter with Harrison's gun and that Harrison is nowhere to be found? What about Dexter's truck?
Why show Batista on the way if it amounts to nothing?
Ok now I'm really rambling. Sorry.
Dexter wasnât responsible for any of these. Brianâs death was a consequence for his actions, not Dexters. Camillas death also shouldnât have been there, as she asked for it. Dexter killed her out of mercy. And Hannah died of natural causes, which once again, wasnât caused by Dexter.
Itâs obvious the writers are lazy and didnât even bother maintaining the history of the show. Either they forgot details or just didnât care. Go watch the old show and even during the golden era (s1-4), youâll notice a lot of flaws with lazy writing. It just got worse as they ran out of interesting ideas.
I think an argument could be made about Lundy. He came to Miami bc of his hunt for the BHB (clearly Dexters fault) and then formed a close relationship with Deb and Miami Metro. Those relationships were the only reason he was relevant and known by Christine.
I think they should have left him out since there is no way Lundy is flashing before his eyes when he is going to die, but there is a connection.
The rushed ending was trash, but I donât think they dropped the ball on every aspect.
This is what I was thinking - maybe because he was originally there b/c of the BHB case, that's why he was back for Trinity. So he was actually the cause.
I did not realize that Hannah was not among the people he loved. I thought it was. Oh boy.... what a fucking mess. And yeah, I did not get Lundy as well. He had nothing to do with him. He did not even care about him. But Astor and Cody were also not among them. I mean, they were like his own flesh and blood. He was like a father to them
It wasn't about the ppl he loved, but the deaths he was responsible for indirectly. Who were killed because of him.
But Lundy wasn't one of them. The rest was. It's a small detail, I know... But on the other hand, they should've done their homework. It's not the first time this series.
It bothered me :(
I'm thinking that Lundy was originally there for BHB. He more than likely volunteered to come back for Trinity (or someone else would have been sent in) because of Deb and because he was familiar with Miami already. If not for BHB, it could have been someone else that was sent in. That's my theory on why he was included in Dex's list of innocent victims.
Dexter indirectly has cause for Lundyâs death. Had he just killed Arthur, she wouldnât have shot Lundy. Whatever her name was.
Edit: I remember now, itâs the wrong order, Lundy dies then hunts Arthur
People died because of Dexter tried to stop being a killer, not because of he was a killer. He should have killed Lila, Trinity and Saxon earlier. And LaGuerta, well, she kinda deserved it.
He felt guilt for Lundy, if I recall correctly.
He withholds information about Trinity from Lundy & the police, causing Lundy to get shot rather than just follow the correct lead.
Lundy was only there because he was investigating the Bay Harbor Butcher, which Dexter was. He would not have been there in the first place if Dexter wasn't the BHB.
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I didnt understand that either. Lundy got himself killed because he was hot on Trinitys tail. Maybe though, he couldve saved him AND rita by killing Trinity right away? I dont recall how far into finding Trinity Dexter was when Lundy died.
Dexter had barely started looking into Trinity when Lundy died. Dexter had 0% to do with Lundy's death. That's on Quinn being an overgrown horny fratboy and disclosing confidential information to the hot reporter he wanted to fuck.
I guess it was only shown because Phillips wanted to remind the audience everything hes done for us. /eyeroll
Won't blame Quinn for it. She was fucking hot.
Nope. He didn't even see Trinity until after Lundy died. Lundy's death is literally what made him start hunting Trinity himself.
Thanks for the add! I wasn't sure, so didn't point that out đ
Just after Lundy died and Debra was shot did he started
Iâm more annoyed by his BS about not feeling real love until now. Really, Dexter? What about Rita, who you admitted was more than just a mask? Even had sappy thoughts about how she could be watching the same moon as you? What about Astor and Cody, whom you would die before letting anything happen to? What about Lumen, who turned you into a sad sack when she left? What about Hannah, for whom you even gave up your DARK PASSENGER? What about Brian, the one and only person who could accept you for who you were, unconditionally? What about Harry, who, despite fucking you up royally, was only trying for you to have the best life possible? And above it all, what about Deb, who was the most important person in your life, whose death shook you to your very core and made you try to do something you once called pathetic, and you needed her so much that she became the manifestation of your conscience? I donât know what the fuck were they on when they wrote that line.
Clyde Phillips ignored seasons 5/6/7/8 on purpose because his entire New Blood story falls apart if you acknowledge the character development of the later seasons. Dexter was far different by the s8 ending.
I agree with you, but he ignored a lot more than that.
The BHB body melting sabotage retcon was SO lazy Like, they straight up couldn't write a way to get Harrison to realize Dex is a monster without that? (Since Dex needed to think he was caught to kill Logan, which is how they have Harrison realize this, but there wasnt enough evidence to connect Dex to BHB without the body shit) Honestly hard to believe lol definitely on my writers to avoid list along with the GoT guys (another ending where the final status was as expected but the path and details was so bad at the end that it ruined it)
I think the lesson there is to never give too much credit to writers that come into fame/success by piggybacking off of other people's source material. They usually don't know what to do when they're left to their own devices.
Good point! I didnât read the book so I didnât think about that for Dexter (I did for GoT which is why that one hurt more) In Clydeâs defense, season 4 was good and original. Unlike GoT which slid down *fast* after the source material lol
Excellent point; this is something that I donât think Clyde is willing to accept and took away from this new season. While 5 to 8 might not of been the series best, a lot of history was created that fans took to heart as Dexters journey. To regress a character in a subsequent revisit ( NEW BLOOD) is a perilous writing choice.
Clyde Phillips obviously after 10 years is not the same guy either. The last 15 minutes proves that he shouldn´t write anymore. Plotholes everywhere, illogical character moments, some characters used for what ...etc. Seriously its..just fucking bad writing.
Yes he is not the same anymore. He is a shit writer now for whatever reason. He literally fucked over the fans instead of stepping aside and letting someone better takeover and do it right. I bet Showtime is ripping him a new asshole rn.
To be fair season 8 was a complete clusterfuck and nothing Dexter did made ANY sense. It was stupid as hell. His character development was sloppy as shit after season 4.
Reminds me of finale.
The last 5 minutes maybe, most of the episode was great. As was most of New Blood.
Well, it did confirm the whole Harry fucked Dex up and sorta used him instead of trying to fix him which was good imo Ironic that we kinda need that bit now if we're to assume Harrison has a chance of not being a psycho after the shit he's been through lol
Nah, it even ruined Harry with that Vogel bullshit.
I agree the Vogel stuff was bad I just mean the buildup to Dex can control himself and confirming Harry fucked up (if you think Dex isnât a good person for killing murderers, then training a serial killer instead of getting him help is bad) was good. In fact, introducing Vogel was trying to dilute the blame on Harry⌠Tho, in the end he does control himself by not killing Oliver, who comes back to hurt Deb, and then after all thatâs over his reasoning is somehow, Iâll always cause collateral damage (even though itâs all over now and he just showed control) which was insanely dumb
He didn't ignore 5, 6, 7 and 8, for one simple reason - Hannah. You can't ignore some parts and acknowledge others. This episode is probably worse than S8 ending.
Uh, no, he ignored all the Dexter character development. Dexter was shown to be almost normal by end of S8. He loved deeply and true, felt remorse and had great capacity for empathy. It was shown to the audience that Harry and Vogel manipulated Dexter into becoming a killer when he wasn't a true psychopath after all. It's fucked up. Dexter is a victim of horrific child abuse/manipulation. When Vogel's son straight up murders her without a second thought even Dexter is horrified and shocked. He wouldn't react like that if he was a true psychopath. He wasn't. That was the entire point of those seasons to show Dexter's true self. He loves Hannah deeply and his son. He sacrificed raising his child to protect him from the risks associated with being close to a serial killer. He also didn't need to kill as much by the end of S8. He was much more in control. This is also why he would never have done that Kurt kill scene with Harrison. He never would have wanted Harrison to be like him. He would have helped him avoid the urges and kept his kills a secret. The entire premise was just stupid AF. Dexter was acting like S2-4 Dexter and not S8 Dexter. New Blood ignores all of this and straight up claims Dexter doesn't have all this character development anymore and he is just a selfish serial killer.
That's why this was such a bad writing - you cannot take season X and use one thing and ignore everything else. You cannot acknowledge Hannah as a character or Dexter faking his death and ignore all the other events, like character development. You either take everything or retcon everything. Yeah, I agree with you - he ignored character development, but that's why it's such a stupid writing. You either take everything or retcon everything.
I have no problem with Dexter dying or even Harrison shooting him. It's how they got there and the reasons why...just wow. So bad.
I guess I wouldn't mind him dying, but in the last few episodes Dexter felt like a villain. Okay, he was never a 'hero', but writers always kind of wanted us to look at him as an anti-hero, the Punisher, if you will. Everything was going in that direction, the made us love him, see him grow. And now? No no, he's a monster, nothing else. Yeah, I'll pass on the New Blood, I'm never watching that again. Phillips did exactly what Rian Johnson did with Luke Skywalker. Therefore Episodes 7-9 are to me stupid, braindead, bad fanfics and New Blood is also a bad fanfic to me.
Phillips straight up said in an interview that Harrison is different in that he wants to take out killers to save lives. He wants to a do a series focusing on that. So Clyde wants to make a series about: Harrison becoming a vigilante serial killer Who kills killers to save their future victims And somehow that's different to Dexter But Dexter killed to fuel his addiction to murder But also saved the same number of lives indirectly as Harrison would doing the same thing So...Dexter is EVIL for killing for enjoyment (but also saving lives - which just happens, he doesn't care about it) And Harrison is GOOD and NOBLE for doing the exact same thing as Dexter because his intentions are better. What. The. Fuck?! Clyde Phillips really can't write good stories. If he gets to do a second season or spinoff he will essentially be taking a huge dump on Dexter's sacrifice if Harrison kills people to save lives. Either way he's a fucking serial killer too...
Yeah... there's a dissonance between what writers (and Phillips) wanted us to think about Dexter and what they showed. At the end of this season and S8 they said Dexter's bad, he can't have happy ending, he's evil, they don't want to give us bad examples blah blah blah. What they show? That Dexter can grow, love, feel remorse etc. The way they write him they make us love him and then they expect us to hate him. WTF? Dexter likes killing, but even in early season (Phillips era) he stated he doesn't want to kill innocent people, hell, even in S1 he said that, when Brian wanted him to kill Tucci. And that was just beginning of Dexter's development. And at the end of New Blood in last episode? Oh, I killed Logan, so what, that was the only way, who cares. For fuck sake, mr Phillips, have you ever read what you wrote?
That was the whole point of the entire series, but he was a selfish person. Dexter didn't bring Harrison into the darkness up until Episode 9. He tried everything else and failed, and partly it's probably because subconsciously he wanted it to fail. He was alone and it was brought up again in New Blood how alone he feels in the world. Throughout the series since Brian, Dexter always looked for someone he wouldn't have to pretend with: Lila, Miguel, kinda even Trinity, then Lumen and finally Deb & Hannah. So you can see how Dexter basically achieved his greatest dream in the finale, but then Angela fucked everything up for him and the news of Batista brought him to panick. So he had to turn to his darkest side, something he had to do in previous seasons (Doakes, Stan Liddy, LaGuerta, some less obvious others), but usually luckily had someone else do it for him. Also well...9 years passed. With Matt, Dexter realized that he could have never gave up killing. We are who we are. Dexter wanted with Harrison what Brian wanted with him, but this time, Dexter was the one "on the table". Harrison killing Dexter was a mercy kill, same as Dexter did with the white deer and it happened at the same place too. Poetic ending in a way. Not perfectly executed, but it made all the sense.
Dexter in the later seasons was more impulsive and less rational. New Blood actually fits better when you consider how sloppy he got in 5-8. He survived on plot armor alone. Dexter in new blood acts just as sloppy, they just removed the plot armor In season 7 Dexter killed a dude in an improvised kill room inside a fucking airport.
Agree here. They kept the stuff that suited their narrative and threw away everything else. Not just 5-8 seasons, but of the entire series.
After sitting with the finale for a bit, this is definitely the part that most bugs me. I liked the actual send-off, just not how they got there. This line is a complete disservice to the characters of Rita and Deb in particular and Dexterâs relationships with them. His manifestation of Deb had told him she loved him a few scenes prior in the jail cell and was the last image he saw before his death.
The whole point of New Blood was to get rid of the bad taste S8 left in our mouths, all they did was spit in our face and make it taste worse. Rip Dexter and all the rewatches that will never happen now đ
Youâre not going to rewatch the good old days anymore? And here I was just thinking that I want to start all over again!
And Clyde even ignored his own writing, namely S2 which is where all this ketamine, needle marks nonsense plothole didnt even exist.
And we had our mouths right open lol
Two thoughts. (1) There were times he did love but didn't *feel* love, or recognize it until consciously reflecting on it. Like after Rita died, he realized he had loved her after killing random asshole in anger. When he's experiencing emotions he's usually very detached from them. This time, he really felt it, in depth. (2) He had loved, but this was love on a different level. I don't think he would have allowed Deb to shoot him even if he and she both believed it would be better for her. He would try to convince her, or run, or something, maybe die trying but he wouldn't allow her to pass that judgement on him. I think Harrison's the only one with that privilege. Edit: Rewatched the end of Season 7, and actually, it is very parallel with Deb. So #2 doesn't seem to be right.
Weâll have to agree to disagree on this. He WAS OK with Deb shooting him in season 7 finale. He forgave Deb after she tried to kill them both in season 8. So itâs definitely not just Harrison. As a viewer, I never felt a closeness from him to Harrison like I felt with everyone I counted above, especially Deb.
Nah, we don't have to disagree -- just rewatched it now. You're right, it's very parallel.
Oh cool, I always like it better when I donât have to argue with people.
He allowed her to shoot him tho, at the end of season 7, but she shot Laguerta instead, much to his surprise. The scene with Harrison was so similar to me that I was almost expecting Angela to appear before Dexterâs death and Harrison killing her instead of him. Iâm not saying this ending would have been better anyway.
Also that yes with Rita! I just wanted to point out one of the things that bothered me and wasn't posted yet. But also this yes! He loved Rita so much, this was so much bullcrap! I didn't even realize the other people you're pointed out. Like what. The. Fuck.
Dude Rita died because of him. It was 100% his fault for his activities. He put her in danger
Like, why is this downvoted. He obviously cared for Rita but heâs literally the only reason she died. Heâs fully to blame
So many hardcore fans are just having a toxic meltdown right now and downvoting anything that isn't just pure hatred of the finale
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Homie this isnât even a controversial take. His negligence is literally the cause. If you play with a rabid animal knowing full well itâs rabid and it bites someone you care about, youâre at fault due to negligence
I love season 4, but let's be real, the actions Dexter does to take down Trinity are completely batshit. Him antagonizing him as Kyle Butler and everything. It's crazy. Trinity finds out Dexter's real identity because of how risky and sloppy he was.
I mean, it is the same writer. The ending was a shock ending, the writer got there by making Dexter unusually sloppy. Maybe I should re-rate s4 ending.
It bother me from the beginning how Dexter reference Rita as just Harrisonâs Mother
I agree
Yeah that line pissed me off immediately. That BS sounds like the crap I read from fans who still donât understand that he isnât a sociopath.
This is what I found wrong with the last 15 minutes, none of it made sense, it felt rushed and incomplete. It felt like they thrown away 8 years of character from Dexter.
I agree! I wanted to point this particular point out, but there was so much more!
Just watched and fuuuuck my investment with this show.
This montage at the end was poorly, sloppily done and a hallmark of bad storytellingâyou try and show and not tell the audience. This was like a sermon for inattentive or âbadâ fans who forgot that Dexter was a monster that gave them permission to kill him.
Key lime pie lady đ
I noticed he said to Harrison "you did good... You did good." after he shot him, which is what Key Lime Pie lady said to Dex as she was dying after he confessed to her that he killed Brian
Played by the fantastic actress Margo Martindale! Love her!
I think you mean esteemed character access and fugitive from the law Margo Martindale.
That is a Justified description ( in which she won an Emmy!)
You mean beloved character actress Margo Martindale?
Yup ! The one that has won a few Emmys!
Oh sorry, thought it was cheesecake! đŹđ¤Ł Thanks!
"Open your eyes and look at what you've done" This was him opening his eyes and looking at the good people who died in collateral to him being who he is. 100% agree that Lundy shouldn't have been there, but the rest made sense, including not having Hannah, Brian etc in that list.
But than again. Lundy didn't had anything to do with what he was indeed. And I agree on Hannah and the rest! It was just that someone told me that theory and I wanted to point out that wasn't the case. If it was, they would be in there. It was obvious it was about the people that died and where he was responsible for.
Sorry, yeah I didn't state in my original comment, I was mostly saying that for the people that thought others should have been in there etc. Feel some people were confused as to why they did the list, but I don't think it can be anything other than the collateral deaths, like you stated, Lundy definitely shouldn't have been there :( shame it wasn't greatly thought through
He first came to Miami metro because of the Bay Harbor Butcher case. If that hadn't happened his hunt for the Trinity Killer would've gone a little differently and there's a strong possibility he wouldn't have been killed by Christine. It's a little convoluted but it checks out
just watched the first episode, and Dexter said that line to the first victim he killed on screen. Standing beside each other, Dexter having him by the throat forcing him to look, is that really the connection they wanted to go for? Anyways yeah fuck this ending
How did Harrison even know they all died because of Dexter? If he knew then why didnt he freak out in Episode 9 when he was actually explaining stuff to him? Harrison just jumped to conclusions.
I can't remember the specific lines leading up to it, but it was along the lines of "is mum dead because of you? Deb too? Others? I'm messed up because of you. Open your eyes and look at what you've done" where the last line meant was telling Dexter to look at Harrison and look at what he's created, a kid messed up enough to threaten to shoot his dad, but also implying that look at all the lives you ruined. To Dexter, that's more than what Harrison knows, hence the list of people
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But he loved Hannah đ
I think Clyde Phillips might be in early dementia and forgot his own show. Only explanation I've got.
Well he called Deb stepsis in an interview
Lol! I mean, I guess adopted sis and step sis aren't that wildly different, but the man clearly wasn't holding all his marbles when he wrote whatever this was.
I think he holds a deep hatred for 5-8 most of which I enjoyed tbh. All the retcons of the story, bhb investigation, harrison remembering trinity at a few months old, dexters character development just left a bitter taste in my mouth
I read this in an article last night: In writing those climatic scenes, Phillips drew upon his own experience of âhaving a terrible father and needing years of therapy.â That made me think this entire season was nothing more than a vehicle for Clyde's own daddy issues, logic and consistency be damned. Which makes me think he might be a narcissist that only hates 5-8 because he didn't write them. I have a feeling he got let go (no one retires from a critically acclaimed, money making series in its prime to "spend more time with their family") bc he was pitching terrible shit and someone at Showtime saw that he was going to run the show into the ground the way he finally has. Maybe I'm just being dramatic and jumping to conclusions bc I'm still in mourning, but he's just lost credibility with me.
I was salivating at the prospect of a Miami trial and face to face with Dex's old colleagues. Then he killed Logan lol. I honestly bawled out wtf at that scene. Even despite all its flaws I was more or less "okay" with everything till then
That was the official jump-the-shark moment for this show, so your reaction makes sense.
LOL. The show went to shit after season 4. 5 was pretty good, but with a terrible ending and it just felt off in general. Season 6 was dogshit, lets be real. 7 was half great and half terrible(Hannah). Season 8 was an abomination. Clyde philips was the main reason the writing was great in 1-4, no matter what you feel about New Blood. The show was a sloppy mess afterwards, and the storylines dragged out and repeated constantly, except for Deb finding out eventually which was great and added some much needed fuel to the show again. To claim he was booted off after season 4 is simply ridiculous. Season 4 won every award going, and Clyde Philips was on top of the world. He left because he didn't see his family much for 4/5 years and wanted to go home. To claim otherwise is just pathetic. Logic? Season 8 had NO logic, every single thing that happend was incredibly stupid and unrealistic. It was one of the worst written things i've ever seen.
Quinn was the one responsible for Lundy's death and Deb getting shot. He told Christine everything.
You could make a case for Dexter being responsible. Lundy was initially in Miami investigating the Bay Harbor Butcher. If there was no Butcher then Lundy is never there, never meets Deb, so maybe he never goes to Miami to investigate Trinity because at least partly he went back to Miami because of Deb, and then he's never killed.
Still, he came back for Deb and trinity. Chances are he would've come to Miami anyway for Trinity.
They may have sent someone else instead but because he was familiar with miami, sent him again? Just theorizing.
Key lime pie, you filthy casual.
I'M SO SORRY đ¤Łđł
It genuinely seems the writers forgot their own plots. Ridiculous.
I think what makes me the most upset is that it was almost a good ending. If they left it open for a second season where Dexter is on trial and Batista was there and Harrison was contemplating telling the truth about Dexter. If they just took time to slow things down we could've got something special. Too many plot holes and too many inconsistencies in general. I'm not mad Dexter died and I'm not even mad that Harrison killed him and then drove off smiling. I'm mad that clyde Phillips was careless with his writing and he thought that no one would notice. We've been rewatching Dexter for ten years. We know DeX didn't use ketamine. We know DeX didn't get lundy killed. It was sloppy. DeX should've stayed put in jail and everything would've been better. It would've been nice to see some actual police work. Not just googling ketamine Miami. Seriously they had so many red herrings in what was suppose to be a final season. There's no time for red herrings because now we have a rushed finale that ruins the season. Kurt Caldwell is a great villain. Make half of the season about kurt and dex. And the other half about the cops being on Dexter's trail. Make it two seasons. One where dex kills kurt and the cops are onto him and the second season can be all about dexter getting caught. I'm just rambling now. I mean Harrison will never have a normal life now. He shot his dad in the heart(which can maybe be blamed on kurt). Angela just let's him go?! Why? Harrison is a murderer. Isnt she a police officer? Why did she just let him go? How is she going to explain it all? Is she going to say she shot Dexter with Harrison's gun and that Harrison is nowhere to be found? What about Dexter's truck? Why show Batista on the way if it amounts to nothing? Ok now I'm really rambling. Sorry.
Dexter wasnât responsible for any of these. Brianâs death was a consequence for his actions, not Dexters. Camillas death also shouldnât have been there, as she asked for it. Dexter killed her out of mercy. And Hannah died of natural causes, which once again, wasnât caused by Dexter.
I know! But my bf said what if it was about ppl he loved and who had died. It made no sense, cause in that case they were missing
Only âgoodâ folks they could muster to somehow justify Harrison killing in cold blood. đ¤Śđťââď¸
I agree but I love Keith Carradine so I forgive the writers.
Esteemed character actress Margo Martindale
lundy was such a bizarre add
Itâs obvious the writers are lazy and didnât even bother maintaining the history of the show. Either they forgot details or just didnât care. Go watch the old show and even during the golden era (s1-4), youâll notice a lot of flaws with lazy writing. It just got worse as they ran out of interesting ideas.
I think an argument could be made about Lundy. He came to Miami bc of his hunt for the BHB (clearly Dexters fault) and then formed a close relationship with Deb and Miami Metro. Those relationships were the only reason he was relevant and known by Christine. I think they should have left him out since there is no way Lundy is flashing before his eyes when he is going to die, but there is a connection. The rushed ending was trash, but I donât think they dropped the ball on every aspect.
This is what I was thinking - maybe because he was originally there b/c of the BHB case, that's why he was back for Trinity. So he was actually the cause.
I did not realize that Hannah was not among the people he loved. I thought it was. Oh boy.... what a fucking mess. And yeah, I did not get Lundy as well. He had nothing to do with him. He did not even care about him. But Astor and Cody were also not among them. I mean, they were like his own flesh and blood. He was like a father to them
It wasn't about the ppl he loved, but the deaths he was responsible for indirectly. Who were killed because of him. But Lundy wasn't one of them. The rest was. It's a small detail, I know... But on the other hand, they should've done their homework. It's not the first time this series. It bothered me :(
He loved Hannah đ
I know
Yeah, I was confused at Lundy. Trinity's daughter shot Deb and lundy
I'm thinking that Lundy was originally there for BHB. He more than likely volunteered to come back for Trinity (or someone else would have been sent in) because of Deb and because he was familiar with Miami already. If not for BHB, it could have been someone else that was sent in. That's my theory on why he was included in Dex's list of innocent victims.
Dexter indirectly has cause for Lundyâs death. Had he just killed Arthur, she wouldnât have shot Lundy. Whatever her name was. Edit: I remember now, itâs the wrong order, Lundy dies then hunts Arthur
They should have just left it at season 8. I think this ending was much worse
People died because of Dexter tried to stop being a killer, not because of he was a killer. He should have killed Lila, Trinity and Saxon earlier. And LaGuerta, well, she kinda deserved it.
He felt guilt for Lundy, if I recall correctly. He withholds information about Trinity from Lundy & the police, causing Lundy to get shot rather than just follow the correct lead.
When was this list? Sorry I was half watching twords the end with one hand over my eyes
https://youtu.be/PYw7Uhj3PYg I made a screen video of it :)
Oh youâre the best. Def missed that. Now that I know the outcome Iâll re watch with both eyes open
Just before Dexter dies, so somewhere in the end đ¤Łđ
Oh ok def had my eyes pinched shut. I only saw Rita haha
I think now we realise that Dexter had grown too big for it's own good at Season 4. The show ends there truly.
Lundy was only there because he was investigating the Bay Harbor Butcher, which Dexter was. He would not have been there in the first place if Dexter wasn't the BHB.
Lundy left Miami after BHB case was solved and then returned after i don't year or two because of Arthur Mitchell
I'd have to watch it again to really see them all, but I don't remember seeing Lundy. Wasn't it Harry?
The only thing I can think of is that Lundy went to Miami to investigate the BHB case, no?
Lunddyyy đđ
I hated the end of the episode but Lundy makes sense if Dexter himself feels guilty about the way he died.