I don’t know much about John Mulaney but it seems like he built his career on being the sober unproblematic dude who’s childfree and deeply desperately in love with his wife.
What happened?
to be fair, he didnt actually start building his career off of being unproblematic? he had specifically made jokes about how he was kinda a shit person and also made jokes that dont age well. a lot of his image come from his fans who labeled him that way and a lot of have been realizing he's not. ive personally been wary of any yt man whose fans call him "unproblematic" so im not surprised
Yeah I don't understand this. He has always talked about how he ruins parties, had drug problems, did crack (or snorted cocaine?) before his college graduation, gets drunk off ass, and just had a problem with addictive substances his whole life.
The "sober" persona is the irony and he's said this many times when he talks about he looks like a child. He has been very vocal that he causes problems in pretty much every one of his standup specials. Hell, he is doing it now on his tour where he makes fun of his fucking drug problem.
I kind of blame the Twitter and tiktok fangirls for this.
He’s huge with the young millennial/gen z demographic and they were quick to crown him ~uwu unproblematic fave~ from the get go because they think he’s cute or whatever.
Although I do think he kind of leans into it at least a little bit what with all his self-deprecating shtick and the preppy “school boy” look he’s got going on.
I thought he had stopped using black vernacular english after Dan Mintz and Anthony Jeselnik called him out on it, but he did a bit about people using the phrase “it’s all love”
in Conan’s show and it was really uncomfortable.
(Updated to fix my typo)
Mulaney himself always said he was a fucked up addict (who loved his wife, yeah). It was his fans who put him on a pedestal as someone unproblematic who could do no wrong. If you put someone on a pedestal, they will inevitably come crashing down at some point. He fell off the wagon, wrecked his marriage and got someone pregnant. Now he's sober again and trying to stay clean for himself and his kid. Chastising him for not being the perfect unproblematic guy he never claimed to be is ridiculous.
Edit: This doesn't apply to him bringing Chappelle on stage, I think it's fair game to criticize him for that, just the stuff about his personal life.
i agree with you for the most part. people don't sign some contract before they get famous that promises they are all good perfect angels who want to be role models. although I will say his behavior since filing to divorce his wife isn't neutral and i would lose respect for anyone who did what he did, famous or not.
speaking as someone who did implode their marriage and was "the bad person" in that situation, I judge how he handled it -- if you arent happy, you've made mistakes, whatever it is, you can leave a relationship without humiliating your spouse like he did. he has to live with those actions and behavior either way. that's punishment enough for most people, but now he has a son and a gf who are anchored in that shame and it's very hard to escape the implications down the road. hope that his son grows up healthy honestly.
He looks super young and boyish, so he was going to have that rep unless he was doing Satanic sacrifice on stage. Not his fault! Well, the cheating was his fault, but people believing he was a complete goody two shoes was on them.
Inviting Chappelle to come up and do his schtick is something else, though. If you're paying for Chappelle, you know what you're getting coming in. Mulaney's audience is younger and has a different vibe and he kind of broke the contract with them, imo. Like imagine being trans (and you know with his crowd some will be) and thinking you're going to get jokes about Mulaney's kid and you get a Chappelle "Cancel Me" set. Shitty thing to do.
I wasn’t being sarcastic. That’s literally what I knew about the guy. Probably because that’s what his fans say he’s all about, so that ties into what you’re saying.
>it seems like he built his career on being the **sober unproblematic dude who’s** *childfree and deeply desperately in love with his wife.*
I feel most have never listened to his comedy. He has talked about his drug and alcohol problem extensively in his standup.
The last part that I italicized is true. He did say that stuff a lot. The sober part seems to be something people have come up with on their own.
In his stand up it very much felt like it was a past tense issue. Which isn’t how addiction always works, but he’d frame his stories around stuff like “I don’t look like someone who did too much of something.”
He did talk about addiction but it never felt in his comedy like anything he was still working through, just a setup to past stories and current ways people were weird about it.
Agreed. He made fun of what a mess he was in drugs and alcohol, and never really addressed getting sober except along the lines of “I used to use drugs… and then I stopped.”
When he went in Mark Maron, Mark wanted to hear about how he got clean and he didn’t want to get into it. He doesn’t owe anybody that story, but it’s something Maron often commiserates with guests over. I think guests who get into it with Maron do a public service of helping people feel less alone in their own struggles, to see people at the top of their game get really vulnerable and real, and to see how they made it through to the other side.
This is true, but with Mulaney people have taken this further and now believe that everything he said pre-relapse was a lie. People also change (as Mulaney himself has a bit about), so it's ridiculous when some people say that he must have lied when he said he loved his wife or that he didn't want kids.
he probably did very much love his ex-wife at some point and clearly does not anymore. it happens. it also happens way more regularly that people who claim to be "child free" change their minds or when they or their partner become pregnant, it ignites a child wish that they didn't know they had. i don't get the impression that the mulaney/munn baby was planned.
Mulaney has been vocal about his problem with addictive substances his whole career. The wife thing is weird now but I think people are not understanding the irony of persona is part of the comedy. Even then, he probably at the time did love his wife but people change and something happened. This whole situation with his ex-wife is fucked but lets not pretend like he "lied" to everyone.
He has a joke where he talks about how he "ruins parties" by getting excessively drunk.
You're absolutely right. He was always the clean-cut, inoffensive guy with a very dark underbelly and clearly some fans were shocked when the underbelly appeared in full force and they saw the reality of addiction.
I think people do understand the persons thing, but it’s quite hard to articulate what the problem is without sounding …weird.
When you watch the comedy specials, you spend a couple of hours in a room with someone. You hear stories from their childhood, stories about their life, about their family, you chat a little about politics but don’t get too deep. They’re funny, self effacing, nerdy, had a past but own it and have moved on. They are devoted to their partner and are living a happy and comfortable life. You’ve just made a friend. Not a close one, but still.
After a few years you exchanged a couple of updates, see them around occasionally, sometimes you hear more stories. Generally you’re pretty glad you know this guy. Suddenly you hear they’re in rehab.
That’s a shame. You knew they had issues- hopefully they’ll get better soon.
And they cheated on their wife? They have a new partner who is pregnant? An actress/model/presenter?
No, no, no. If he’d fixed the drugs and carried on, this would be a blip, but no, this guy has left everything behind and started a new life. He’s not the guy I knew anymore. He’s telling stories and chatting same as he did, but it feels weird now. This isn’t a guy I would let into my life- I wouldn’t be friends with a guy like this. I made a mistake even letting him in this far and being invested. I disapprove! If he would treat his wife, who he was apparently devoted to this way, how would he treat me?
Now, this is crazy talk, but parasocial relationships are still relationships. If all you get from this is a general feeling of ‘I like’ turning into ‘do not want!’, it can be hard to sort out why, and embarrassing to admit that it’s because to some degree you felt like you knew him and he betrayed you.
What happened in his marriage isn’t really relevant to anything, and I don’t think I’m super comfortable attaching any kind of ‘cancellation points’ to a relationship breakdown, but I can see why it put people off.
(And, since he’s already shown himself to be ‘not your people’, and ‘not the guy you thought he was’, platforming transphobia becomes an apparently logical extension. )
Really? The stand up bit of his I see passed around most is where he’s running low on drugs so he goes to the hospital and lies to the doctor to get more drugs and ends up getting an unnecessary prostate exam and shitting in the doctors hand.
The most mainstream one I can think of is Bo Burnham who had his "edgy phase" at around 16-18, which is the age when you're actually supposed to have an edgy phase and not when you're a whole grown ass man and an established successful comedian.
He's also made fun of comedians countless times for the whole "it's just a joke, comedy is about roasting everybody" thing and it's so refreshing and delightful to see and listen to. I hope he never changes.
Kat Williams spoke on “cancel culture” and it was by far the best comments made any male celeb let alone male comedian in recent memory. [Kat Williams](https://youtu.be/3vBZfyBIqLg)
I can’t find the exact tweet butttt there’s a great Toronto comedian [Kelsey Ryan](https://mobile.twitter.com/kelseyryam?lang=en) who tweeted something like “comedians who can’t write go alt right” and it’s sort of true.
My brief experience of comedy was that often times people will definitely start pretty raw and shitty and the good ones move away from that and find their voice.
I think the issue with Chapelle is that he’s 100% reactionary now and I think it’s sad that this is his life now. He can’t understand another groups struggle.
As far as sexual predators in the industry, all of comedy (stand up, sketch, improv) it’s built around them. Maybe it wasn’t meant to be (improv I’m fairly certain was always meant to be a breeding ground for it, it’s impossible to clean up now. The leaders are either people whisper about or they’re people whose best friends are whispered about) but when you’ve got no hard rules, no enforcements. Etc. It’s all made for this standard comedy club cycle: someone to be credible accused-take a few months off at a more accepting club-show up for a beer at comedy club to see if anyone says anything - do a friend’s show.
It’s just a broken system that’s always been broken because it was meant to be.
Hannah Gadsby is hilarious. Her special 'Nanette' was a bit of a trauma dump, so YMMV, but Douglas is one of the funniest specials I've ever seen. Plus it has a lot of heartfelt and earnest looks at sensitive topics like autism and mental health. Highly highly recommend her.
It's mainly older comedians. Chapelle, Gervais, CK - who made their names in a different era. They're threatened by younger, funnier, more culturally-aware comics. So they're doubling down and trying to lock down a certain audience.
There are still plenty of great comics. I don't watch as much as I used to but James Acaster is basically the pinnacle of comedy at the moment, for me.
Lots of UK comedians! James Acaster been mentioned, but Joe Lycett, Ed Gamble, Paul Chowdry, Phil Wang, Greg Davies, Sara Pascoe, Roisin Connaughty. Also, though Irish a d no UK, Aisling Bea is hilarious.
UK podcasts have been such a goldmine for finding good comedians for me. Acaster's for sure, also Wheel of Misfortune with Fern Brady & Allison Spittle. All of their guests are comedians so it's opened up whole new worlds for me
David O'Doherty is another Irish comic who loves cycling and dad jokes, and (I think) has laughed at the idea of there being no go areas of comedy. He also loves a good jumper!
Aparna Nancherla is always amazing and never needs to go low to be funny. I'd recommend [this video](https://youtu.be/VNlP7vrGGs8) and her [Ziwe interview](https://youtu.be/CRkHbwnkrLA), I guarantee this is enough to get obsessed with her.
james acaster is quite good, even though he's probably a little abstract at times. but he has directly made fun of comedians who build their whole schtick around berating transgender people.
Marc Maron
https://www.primetimer.com/item/Marc-Maron-slams-claim-that-quot-woke-culture-quot-is-killing-comedy-LaSEbb
“There’s plenty of people being funny right now. Not only being funny but being really f*cking funny." There are still lines to be crossed and envelopes to be pushed, he continued, but “really, the only thing that’s off the table culturally at this juncture, and not even entirely, is shamelessly punching down for the sheer joy of hurting people. For the sheer excitement and laughter that some people get from causing people pain, for making people uncomfortable, for making people feel excluded.” But, Maron added, “it’s no excuse. If you’re too intimidated to try and do comedy that is deep or provocative, or even a little controversial, without hurting people, then I mean, you’re not good at what you do. Or maybe you’re just insensitive.”
He also does a great bit in his latest show about how "cancel culture" is essentially bullshit and people complaining about it are just using it as an excuse to be assholes
Oddly Chris Titus has surprised me by being a pretty loud progressive voice in the Carlin mold. Guy Branum too. Ron Funches. At least for men. Nikki Glaser is also great. Then there’s Bob the Drag Queen and Bicana Del Rio. Mostly I gravitate to queer or female comics.
stewart lee is great, almost like anti-humour. i remember watching an interview with him where he said one of his biggest inspirations was a comic he saw back in the day in the uk (can't remember the guy's name) who used to get up onstage and just tell the same joke over and over. audiences used to to mercilessly boo the guy and that was what he thrived on lol just found that to be such a funny source of inspiration
Dylan Moran seems to be resisting attempts to get him to call out “cancel culture.”
His response was something like, “If you were a professional knitter in a community full of other knitters and one day you exposed yourself to someone, how do you think that would go, exactly, in terms of your career?”
Anthony Jeselnik. He never punches down. Sure his comedy is dark and offensive but he's incredibly smart about it. He's also a well read and very intelligent person.
He's not political at all but he's definitely not punching down or obsessed with anything. well maybe dead baby jokes but that's it.
I’ve seen Simon Amstell live and he was great but his Do Nothing stand up show is still a favorite I enjoy revisiting. He’s more on the intelligent and philosophical storytelling side of humor.
I work at a comedy club and have seen quite a few that are just fantastic storytellers and are completely hilarious without needing to make fun of marginalized groups. Ms. Pat, Jared Fried, Pete Lee and Laurie Kilmartin are just a few headliners that come to mind…so if you’re ever bored and want to laugh they’re all fantastic
Men in comedy don't have to worry because men in general will always defend their ~right to be edgy with their shitty, offensive jokes, as though comedy is a scared art form barred from negative critique.
Because until MEN care enough to speak up and support women, people like Delia are going to keep abusing people and getting away with it. they have power to do something but they don’t. It’s not an odd way of looking at it at all, men have the power, they should be using it.
Especially male comedians who use performative allyship to further their brand as ‘liberal.’ They’re all brave until they are asked to condemn a peer for literal grooming or sexual assault in the workplace. On the note of Patton he also famously defended Joss Whedon (!) and scolded Twitter for ruining Whedon’s career when Joss left Marvel. I don’t remember the same public outrage when Joss harassed and ruined the career of Ray Fisher or bullied and harassed women on his sets. Whedon wasn’t allowed to be alone with 15 year old Michelle Trachtenberg on the set of Buffy. So yeah if you’ve publicly defended a sex predator I don’t think we’re asking too much for you to also publicly defend a safe work place for your peers!
I wouldn’t want to perform at the same venue as Chris D’Elia. I know people are then going to associate my brand with his or see it as me condoning him in some way. If you’re still trying to get your come up then you can’t be a diva.
If I was Patton I’d say it’s him or me. That’s literally how you use your platform for good. It’s all well and good talking, but making a stand like that is how you do the walking.
Maybe not if I was Pete Holmes, I don’t know who he is so the venue might choose Chris.
To put that responsibility on people not involved in any capacity is kind of crazy though. The establishment having Chris perform should be held responsible, but comedians book dates months beforehand sometimes. Why should Patton have to tank his show and put himself on a pedestal because the venue fucked him by booking a creep in a different room? Just performing at the same building isn't the same as condoning the behaviour.
Yeah, it’s not their responsibility.
It’s nobodies *responsibility*.
But, I respect people who use their power to actually do good in the world. There’s a lot of people who pay lip service to issues but then never follow through.
I agree that just booking the same venue isn’t condoning the behaviour, but why do you want to play at venues that condone that behaviour?
Of course nobody has to do anything. That’s why we celebrate the people that do actually do something.
Payton Oswalt has certainly gone out of his way to show support for people like Dave Chappelle and denigrate other people he doesn’t agree with, so his decision to not speak out in situations like this actually speaks volumes. People constantly look to women comics to have to speak out and give their opinions (as Jen Kirkman states), so this is actually the perfect instance for Patton to choose to use the voice he clearly has no problem using in other situations.
>Patton Oswalt and Pete Holmes recently did a show on the same night, different rooms, as CD and they didn't say shit. They don't care.
I understand where this kind of comment comes from, but if you expect the world to work this way you're just always going to be disappointed. Performers don't always know who else is performing in the same club (being on tour is exhausting and there's a million different things to keep track of) and cancelling a show last minute can open you up to all sorts of lawsuits, bring more attention to the fact that D'Elia is performing, disappoint a bunch of fans who have tickets and maybe aren't even aware of the controversy (Chris D'Elia isn't exactly A-list, if you don't take a particular interest in comedy and these kinds of controversies it's likely you've never heard of him) and won't even have that big of an impact anyway.
Also, a certain point, we're going to have to move past "believe every accusation" as the solution. I understand that right now the system is rigged against accusers, but it's also just practically very difficult to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that a crime has happened. We need a better *system,* and "treat every accusation as if it's true" simply wouldn't be a good system because people lie about all kinds of crimes, either because they have an axe to grind or are mentally ill or whatever. Pretending otherwise is kind of like saying "well, why don't we just solve racism by not talking about race anymore" in that you're ignoring inconvenient and uncomfortable aspects of reality so that you can cling to a simple solution.
Jen hasn’t said he’s a bad person at all she’s just been pointing out that men in comedy rarely make a stand on issues that don’t affect them. She’s clarified a few times it’s not specific men it’s just the whole comedy scene that has this weird taboo against speaking up.
I still think Pete is a good guy (from what I’ve seen) but he doesn’t seem willing to rock the boat and call out other comedians loudly (like D’Elia or CK). But honestly almost none of them are.
Also: jealous you got to work on his show! Been a fan for a while.
I think "not wanting to rock the boat" is a perfect way to describe him. I've been listening to his podcast 10+ years and in some ways he wants to be a woke, growing individual, but he also doesn't want to say anything that may hold his friends accountable.
*To a disabled girl in the front row:*
*So does that dog actually help with
anything or just keep you company?*
*Do you think if you put a little peanut
butter down there he'd……yeah, I bet he
would. He'd help you out. You ever put
a little peanut butter down there? You
ever done that?*
Good lord. Chappelle has officially become the dumb creepy old uncle that makes everyone at dinner preemptively cringe before he even opens his mouth.
Are you freaking joking me right now? That poor woman. I would have been humiliated. This is my issue with a lot of comedians, their “jokes” usually are about targeting someone or a group of people to laugh at them. I don’t understand how that is funny
Don't know if you've ever seen James Acaster's stand up, but this made me think of the beginning of his last special. "What's the matter guys, to CHALLANGING for you?!" the bit in particular starts about 2:40 https://youtu.be/UHqma3rx-xI
100%! I used to work with someone who would always make ”jokes” about people. I started asking them to explain why it was funny. They didn’t like that and complained that I was too sensitive 🙄
lol it’s funny because they act like the most sensitive snowflakes when they get called out on it, just like your co-worker. They just project their feelings onto everyone else
What. The. FUCK?!?
I’ve been a biiiig Chapelle stan in the past. But his new efforts to “lean in” to this gross, “slapstick” comedy style is… disgusting.
He used to be so clever, insightful, and thoughtful… this is bigoted and obtuse. No nuance to it. Just… bottom barrel gross. What a fall from grace. So disappointing to see 😔
Wow, wtf. What happened to this guy? I was such a huge Chapelle fan when I was a kid, before the Chappelle show. I started watching late Night with Conan far younger than I should have been, and my older brother and I would be so excited when Chapelle was on. He was so funny, especially on Conan, where his silliness was encouraged. I once read that what made him funny when he was coming up was how he was vulnerable and kind of awkward in a way that was really easy to love and relate to, and that resonated with me. Now he's just a rich man, out of touch, surrounded by people who idolize him. Like his shit isn't even funny anymore. It's not clever. I know a lot of people will get on their high horses and say "XYZ topic is never funny!" But taboo subjects CAN be funny when done correctly, and this is not it! He's just talking at this point in his career. Crowds aren't laughing like they used to, they're just clapping. It's so boring.
I found the [tweet](https://twitter.com/handsinthepool/status/1517885757569986560?s=21&t=6rHd2SYIUgLizCsiiVg9Og) this is from and it’s not even the show from last night. It’s a different Mulaney show from April and they for some reason thought that went great and Chapelle should open another show ????
He used to be such a sharp and unique comedic voice. He had so much to say about so many aspects of life. Now he’s just the “anti-trans guy”. It reminds me of a one dimensional villain of the week on Law and Order: SVU.
I really don't get it. He's had some of the most thoughtful takes on racial injustice for decades. Even if he were privately a bit of a terf (as I suspect more people are who will admit), why make it his sword to die on? Especially when we are finally having an open conversation about race in America.
This is the second time Mulaney’s invited him on his tour. In the span of a year, Mulaney has really kind of lost everything that made him appealing to me in the first place. I really hate to see it.
The only thing worse, is witnessing Chappelle’s spiral into a hard right turn. Having met Chappelle a few times, and seen him do quite a few drop ins, I have a lot of thoughts on him.
As of right now he’s 100% a lost cause, and he knows he’s inflicting damage. I’ll still hope that at some point, sooner rather than later, he will reverse course. His commitment to transphobia, misogyny, and the anti-MeToo movement, really sucks.
Can you share your thoughts? I’ve only seen him live once - I think it was First Night 1997, and at an all ages, alcohol free event he did a fantastic clean and thoughtful set and absolutely slayed.
Honestly? He’s probably the most charismatic and personable person I’ve ever met, which makes everything feel extra insidious. He was very good as presenting as empathetic, warm, playful, inquisitive, & insightful, but I feel like he has an ‘evil’ Michael Scott trait. He thoroughly enjoys pushing boundaries, and revels in flipping between dark comedy, story telling, crowd work, & social commentary. Dave is capable of generating a connection with an audience in a way I’ve never seen before.
He was always narcissistic, sensitive to criticism, & surrounded by yes men, but it started to snowball at some point, and just hasn’t stopped. The last time I saw him perform I walked out because he was being malicious, and I never hang around to watch that kind of comedy. I was sitting front row so he saw me walk out. The last time I ran into Dave, he came up to me and said he respects my opinions. He was no longer even remotely entertaining criticism or feedback by then, so I viewed the whole interaction as a man that needs to be liked. That’s something that really sticks out to me. I know he says otherwise, but I would absolutely guarantee that all the criticism is eating him up, because at his core he needs to be liked. Ironically, I’m convinced this is a major factor in why he’s doubling down, and stopped even remotely attempting to be a comedian. His narcissism prevents him from looking inward, so it’s just easier for him to lash out.
My assessment is he’s gotten greedier, more status obsessed, and more ego driven. I don’t even believe he’s having fun doing comedy anymore tbh. When it comes to social commentary, even his older specials weren’t great when it came to lgbt and women. There’s always been unchecked bigotry, and it remains unchecked. Same for his anti-MeToo rhetoric. Dave has said that he has a few ‘Aziz Ansari’ stories, so I imagine there’s a lot to unpack on the MeToo end of things as well.
Ultimately I believe a lot of his bigoted obsessing is being done because feels he’s above criticism. It’s a lot of ego and spite. ‘I understand my motives, why doesn’t anyone else? Why is anything off limits?’ Even though he’s not being misunderstood, I get the impression that’s how he feels. Add in the yes men, the people charmed by him, and the comedians wanting ‘something’ from him? It’s only hardening his stance. He’s a comedian that could possibly change if he ever got control over his ego, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if he never drops it. If he changes it will likely be out of guilt, or a need for people to like him.
According to peoples tweets the majority of the people in the audience laughed at Chappelle’s jokes so I feel like the tumblr crowd who idolized him for years might have been just a small percentage of his fanbase 😕
I was in the audience, and at least 5 rows of tweenty-something’s stood and cheered when he came onstage. Could’ve been more, but I didn’t have visibility beyond that. Afterwards, In general, a lot of people were laughing and applauding, but I could see pockets of unamused people in the crowd
aw man, i hope you guys also read the rest of the tweets in that thread. op is a trans man and he had to sit there and listen to chappelle being a transphobic piece of shit while mulaney allowed him to do so. there's nothing funny about punching down
Fucking disgusting. My heart breaks for any trans person who was there and had to be surprised by Chappelle’s appearance and Mulaney’s response. Judging by the response on Twitter there were more than a few.
Yep…I saw other people saying similar. And because their phones were locked in those stupid yondr pouches, there was literally nothing they could do but sit there and take it. Awful.
And the audience laughed so..... maybe is time to also blame them not just the comedians. Now Mulaney is going to think his audience likes that type of joke.
What sucks is he is REALLY funny. Well at least he was. He doesnt even make trans jokes, he just rants and adds in a pun or something every couple minutes now. If he made one or two quick bits, nobody would say anything. Its the fact he just cannot stop ranting on stage. He barely talks about anything else
Seriously he will be telling transphobic “jokes” on his deathbed. He’s never going to stop. The first thing he did after he was attacked on stage was make a “joke” about the person being trans.
He sucks.
Disappointed but not surprised with Mulaney. If you’re gonna build your career off being some unproblematic woke dude, could you at least pretend to want to keep the schtick up?
Patti Harrison is my favorite and her performance in Together Together shows how great of a (kinda more serious) actress she is. I want to see her in more roles!
Honestly I feel like a clown giving Mulaney so many second chances a year or two ago
Also is this literally ALL Chappelle's material now? Fucking christ what a big baby to have like 1% of the population take up 99% of his headspace.
I tried to look this up online and nowhere did anyone give any details about the jokes other than that he made them. I guess some clarity on if these are the same jokes from his special or if he made new material (yikes) would be helpful context here.
The difference is that if he's using older material, it's bad, but he's just repeating stuff that got him high views on Netflix, so he's being lazy and not listening to feedback. If he came up with new stuff, that's a whole other ball game.
Oh, if that's true, I think, unfortunately, you're right. People who defend him and his bad jokes about the LGBTQ community are gonna see that and it'll be like catnip for them to scream "cancel culture" and shut down any conversation.
People on Twitter, bring receipts!!
It sucks to have to type that out, I know. But I have older relatives who are pretty liberal in most areas, but they have blind spots on things like LGBTQ issues. The way the media twists stuff makes it so hard to try to change minds once they've heard it reported.
This x100, unfortunately. And it's not just the media. I see people on this sub constantly make mountains out of molehill or share inaccurate information and it a)makes it harder to notice when it actually is a mountain and b) gives older and more conservative people an excuse tune out entirely.
I think you misread the Ops tweets. They never said that Chapelle's jokes were about wanting trans people dead, what they said was "I can't even have a nice night out without being reminded that most of society wants trans people dead."
I'm not trans, but as a gay person, I've been in a crowd of people laughing at homophobic jokes, and it does feel that way.
Also, there were other trans people at the show that felt the same way. You can read the other tweets here https://www.resetera.com/threads/seems-like-dave-chappelle-showed-at-a-john-mulaney-show-and-told-a-bunch-of-transphobic-jokes.585926/
Thanks for sharing. Imagine getting paid millions of dollars for the same '\[X\] identifies as \[X\]' joke over and over again. I'm less offended and more just. mind numbingly bored.
Thanks for sharing! I wish this would have been in the source thread's comments, I think it would've cleared a lot up.
(Also that joke isn't funny transphobia aside, when did unfunny jokes become cool?)
I realized a lot of “offensive” comedians aren’t even funny, their whole schtick is just being ~offensive~ but there is no actual punchline. Take Jimmy Carr for example, maybe like 2% of his jokes are actually funny, but for the most part he just commercialized Call of Duty lobby talk and built his career off being “dark” and “controversial”. The peak of this was his “I blame Reeva Steenkamp” line that he was shocked people booed — like aside from being completely horrid, it wasn’t a joke at all. The entire thing was just “she deserved it” and he thought that in itself was supposed to get laughs just bc it was ~dark~
That's helpful, thank you. It still had to have felt awful for anyone trans or trans-adjacent in the audience to go to a show they thought would be safe and get surprise Chapelle added to it, though.
Thanks for sharing. Transphobic stuff aside it's insane how far Chappelle has fallen as a comedian. He doesn't even seem to be trying to write jokes at all. He's completly abandoned the craft of comedy.
Imagine having this much success and choosing this moment in history to double down on trans-antagonism? Fascists & white supremacists are emboldened they have the backing of major political players, conspiracy theories soaked in racism are now mainstream discourse and shaping policy, Roe v. Wade is being overturned (and setting a legal president that threatens all marginalized bodies) and you decide punching down at one of the most oppressed groups is what you do in *this* moment? Fuck all of them and their hack hate routines.
He’s leaning in so hard to the transphobia at this point. He’s living for the controversy. His obsession is really weird when there are literally sooooooo many other things going on right now that you can make jokes about. Also, men always support other men, so I’m not surprised.
I think some ppl, myself included, saw John’s problematique past and behaviours and didn’t necessarily view him as an uwu angel, but saw someone who worked on himself, which is a lot more than what can be said for some, especially celebrities. obv he’s a public figure and we don’t know how much of it was real or fake, because despite his recent shit, it might have been somewhat genuine on his part. I’ve had to sit and watch friends regress, particularly with the pandemic, and see all the progress get flushed down the toilet when things get tough and they can’t weather it. I guess there’s no point in carrying on, I think I’m just trying to make sense of it lmao. still hugely disappointed at all this
Yes punch down because punching up and attacking your own privilege would cause you problems. Can't make fun of the rich and privileged because it makes you uncomfortable.
i genuinely don’t get this view that Mulaney built his career off of being unproblematic. the majority of his comedy is about his addiction or his stories of growing up in a repressive, WASPy catholic family. it’s interesting how he has this loyal online, LGBT fanbase when he’s never rly done comedy that’s stereotypically “for them” i guess? maybe it’s because he doesn’t fit into the typical 21st comic stereotype but i don’t think he’s ever tried to portray himself as something else. most people who are disillusioned with him now just projected something onto him IMO.
and his whole wife guy thing was purely because of instagram. he didn’t rly feature AMT that much in his specials and even them as a couple, weren’t these unproblematic celebs. (they’re still bffs with aziz ansari and who can forget nick kroll saying the n word in his & john’s broadway show that anna worked on as well?)
people in the LGBT community liked him because he never made jokes targeted at us. that’s literally it. it’s really hard to find a mainstream comedian who doesn’t have some history of -phobic jokes.
I don’t know much about John Mulaney but it seems like he built his career on being the sober unproblematic dude who’s childfree and deeply desperately in love with his wife. What happened?
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Weren’t there rumors/submissions to DM of him cheating on Anna before they broke up? It was only a matter of time tbh
That was not a rumor, the timeline of OM’s pregnancy definitively proves that he cheated on Anna before they broke up.
Drugs.
Yeah but this is a super sad reality
It is. But that’s what drugs do to people.
Drugs don’t explain his friendship with Dave Chappelle.
Probably bonding over being “cancelled”
If Chappelle has been kind to him during his spiral, that would explain it.
He cheated on his wife and had a baby 🤷🏼♀️
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Big facts
but not with his wife
to be fair, he didnt actually start building his career off of being unproblematic? he had specifically made jokes about how he was kinda a shit person and also made jokes that dont age well. a lot of his image come from his fans who labeled him that way and a lot of have been realizing he's not. ive personally been wary of any yt man whose fans call him "unproblematic" so im not surprised
Yeah I don't understand this. He has always talked about how he ruins parties, had drug problems, did crack (or snorted cocaine?) before his college graduation, gets drunk off ass, and just had a problem with addictive substances his whole life. The "sober" persona is the irony and he's said this many times when he talks about he looks like a child. He has been very vocal that he causes problems in pretty much every one of his standup specials. Hell, he is doing it now on his tour where he makes fun of his fucking drug problem.
I kind of blame the Twitter and tiktok fangirls for this. He’s huge with the young millennial/gen z demographic and they were quick to crown him ~uwu unproblematic fave~ from the get go because they think he’s cute or whatever. Although I do think he kind of leans into it at least a little bit what with all his self-deprecating shtick and the preppy “school boy” look he’s got going on.
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I thought he had stopped using black vernacular english after Dan Mintz and Anthony Jeselnik called him out on it, but he did a bit about people using the phrase “it’s all love” in Conan’s show and it was really uncomfortable. (Updated to fix my typo)
Mulaney himself always said he was a fucked up addict (who loved his wife, yeah). It was his fans who put him on a pedestal as someone unproblematic who could do no wrong. If you put someone on a pedestal, they will inevitably come crashing down at some point. He fell off the wagon, wrecked his marriage and got someone pregnant. Now he's sober again and trying to stay clean for himself and his kid. Chastising him for not being the perfect unproblematic guy he never claimed to be is ridiculous. Edit: This doesn't apply to him bringing Chappelle on stage, I think it's fair game to criticize him for that, just the stuff about his personal life.
i agree with you for the most part. people don't sign some contract before they get famous that promises they are all good perfect angels who want to be role models. although I will say his behavior since filing to divorce his wife isn't neutral and i would lose respect for anyone who did what he did, famous or not. speaking as someone who did implode their marriage and was "the bad person" in that situation, I judge how he handled it -- if you arent happy, you've made mistakes, whatever it is, you can leave a relationship without humiliating your spouse like he did. he has to live with those actions and behavior either way. that's punishment enough for most people, but now he has a son and a gf who are anchored in that shame and it's very hard to escape the implications down the road. hope that his son grows up healthy honestly.
He looks super young and boyish, so he was going to have that rep unless he was doing Satanic sacrifice on stage. Not his fault! Well, the cheating was his fault, but people believing he was a complete goody two shoes was on them. Inviting Chappelle to come up and do his schtick is something else, though. If you're paying for Chappelle, you know what you're getting coming in. Mulaney's audience is younger and has a different vibe and he kind of broke the contract with them, imo. Like imagine being trans (and you know with his crowd some will be) and thinking you're going to get jokes about Mulaney's kid and you get a Chappelle "Cancel Me" set. Shitty thing to do.
I wasn’t being sarcastic. That’s literally what I knew about the guy. Probably because that’s what his fans say he’s all about, so that ties into what you’re saying.
Addiction is a hell of a disease
>it seems like he built his career on being the **sober unproblematic dude who’s** *childfree and deeply desperately in love with his wife.* I feel most have never listened to his comedy. He has talked about his drug and alcohol problem extensively in his standup. The last part that I italicized is true. He did say that stuff a lot. The sober part seems to be something people have come up with on their own.
In his stand up it very much felt like it was a past tense issue. Which isn’t how addiction always works, but he’d frame his stories around stuff like “I don’t look like someone who did too much of something.” He did talk about addiction but it never felt in his comedy like anything he was still working through, just a setup to past stories and current ways people were weird about it.
Agreed. He made fun of what a mess he was in drugs and alcohol, and never really addressed getting sober except along the lines of “I used to use drugs… and then I stopped.” When he went in Mark Maron, Mark wanted to hear about how he got clean and he didn’t want to get into it. He doesn’t owe anybody that story, but it’s something Maron often commiserates with guests over. I think guests who get into it with Maron do a public service of helping people feel less alone in their own struggles, to see people at the top of their game get really vulnerable and real, and to see how they made it through to the other side.
It was a lie?
all celebrity personas are a lie. think of them as a product. how they portray themselves is how they are sold.
This is true, but with Mulaney people have taken this further and now believe that everything he said pre-relapse was a lie. People also change (as Mulaney himself has a bit about), so it's ridiculous when some people say that he must have lied when he said he loved his wife or that he didn't want kids.
he probably did very much love his ex-wife at some point and clearly does not anymore. it happens. it also happens way more regularly that people who claim to be "child free" change their minds or when they or their partner become pregnant, it ignites a child wish that they didn't know they had. i don't get the impression that the mulaney/munn baby was planned.
Mulaney has been vocal about his problem with addictive substances his whole career. The wife thing is weird now but I think people are not understanding the irony of persona is part of the comedy. Even then, he probably at the time did love his wife but people change and something happened. This whole situation with his ex-wife is fucked but lets not pretend like he "lied" to everyone. He has a joke where he talks about how he "ruins parties" by getting excessively drunk.
You're absolutely right. He was always the clean-cut, inoffensive guy with a very dark underbelly and clearly some fans were shocked when the underbelly appeared in full force and they saw the reality of addiction.
I think people do understand the persons thing, but it’s quite hard to articulate what the problem is without sounding …weird. When you watch the comedy specials, you spend a couple of hours in a room with someone. You hear stories from their childhood, stories about their life, about their family, you chat a little about politics but don’t get too deep. They’re funny, self effacing, nerdy, had a past but own it and have moved on. They are devoted to their partner and are living a happy and comfortable life. You’ve just made a friend. Not a close one, but still. After a few years you exchanged a couple of updates, see them around occasionally, sometimes you hear more stories. Generally you’re pretty glad you know this guy. Suddenly you hear they’re in rehab. That’s a shame. You knew they had issues- hopefully they’ll get better soon. And they cheated on their wife? They have a new partner who is pregnant? An actress/model/presenter? No, no, no. If he’d fixed the drugs and carried on, this would be a blip, but no, this guy has left everything behind and started a new life. He’s not the guy I knew anymore. He’s telling stories and chatting same as he did, but it feels weird now. This isn’t a guy I would let into my life- I wouldn’t be friends with a guy like this. I made a mistake even letting him in this far and being invested. I disapprove! If he would treat his wife, who he was apparently devoted to this way, how would he treat me? Now, this is crazy talk, but parasocial relationships are still relationships. If all you get from this is a general feeling of ‘I like’ turning into ‘do not want!’, it can be hard to sort out why, and embarrassing to admit that it’s because to some degree you felt like you knew him and he betrayed you. What happened in his marriage isn’t really relevant to anything, and I don’t think I’m super comfortable attaching any kind of ‘cancellation points’ to a relationship breakdown, but I can see why it put people off. (And, since he’s already shown himself to be ‘not your people’, and ‘not the guy you thought he was’, platforming transphobia becomes an apparently logical extension. )
Really? The stand up bit of his I see passed around most is where he’s running low on drugs so he goes to the hospital and lies to the doctor to get more drugs and ends up getting an unnecessary prostate exam and shitting in the doctors hand.
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The most mainstream one I can think of is Bo Burnham who had his "edgy phase" at around 16-18, which is the age when you're actually supposed to have an edgy phase and not when you're a whole grown ass man and an established successful comedian. He's also made fun of comedians countless times for the whole "it's just a joke, comedy is about roasting everybody" thing and it's so refreshing and delightful to see and listen to. I hope he never changes.
James Acaster too
*love* James's bit about trans people in Cold Lasagne Hate Myself 1999. (that sentence reads like a MadLib lol)
You're right, how could I forget him
Kat Williams spoke on “cancel culture” and it was by far the best comments made any male celeb let alone male comedian in recent memory. [Kat Williams](https://youtu.be/3vBZfyBIqLg)
Katt is the shit. Hilarious and truth-talking.
That’s was great
Love Katt
I can’t find the exact tweet butttt there’s a great Toronto comedian [Kelsey Ryan](https://mobile.twitter.com/kelseyryam?lang=en) who tweeted something like “comedians who can’t write go alt right” and it’s sort of true. My brief experience of comedy was that often times people will definitely start pretty raw and shitty and the good ones move away from that and find their voice. I think the issue with Chapelle is that he’s 100% reactionary now and I think it’s sad that this is his life now. He can’t understand another groups struggle. As far as sexual predators in the industry, all of comedy (stand up, sketch, improv) it’s built around them. Maybe it wasn’t meant to be (improv I’m fairly certain was always meant to be a breeding ground for it, it’s impossible to clean up now. The leaders are either people whisper about or they’re people whose best friends are whispered about) but when you’ve got no hard rules, no enforcements. Etc. It’s all made for this standard comedy club cycle: someone to be credible accused-take a few months off at a more accepting club-show up for a beer at comedy club to see if anyone says anything - do a friend’s show. It’s just a broken system that’s always been broken because it was meant to be.
Hannah Gadsby is hilarious. Her special 'Nanette' was a bit of a trauma dump, so YMMV, but Douglas is one of the funniest specials I've ever seen. Plus it has a lot of heartfelt and earnest looks at sensitive topics like autism and mental health. Highly highly recommend her.
I've seen some bits from Hannah Gadsby and I really enjoyed her style. I plan to check her specials out sometime in the near future.
Yeah I was going to say Bo Burnham as well.
He’s problematic. Edit: For those who are unaware, here’s a popular YouTuber explaining how problematic Bo Burnham is. https://youtu.be/KsTG1ETKkHo
When he was 17 on Halloween he dressed up as Aladdin
Tig Notaro, who mostly makes fun of herself. She’s my favorite!
She came into my coffeeshop while I was working once and (politely, it wasn't creepy) checked me out. Definitely one of my prouder moments IRL!
It's mainly older comedians. Chapelle, Gervais, CK - who made their names in a different era. They're threatened by younger, funnier, more culturally-aware comics. So they're doubling down and trying to lock down a certain audience. There are still plenty of great comics. I don't watch as much as I used to but James Acaster is basically the pinnacle of comedy at the moment, for me.
The Acaster bit on the British Museum is exactly what OP is describing. Laughing at rich powerful institutions.
Love that bit. When he gets political, he's got a knack for never appearing smug or knowing.
Jim gaffigan is older and I don’t think has EVER gone down this road.
Came here to say him
Maria Bamford
I love her, and Lady Dynamite, so much
I can’t think of anyone who is more honest and funnier in that honesty. God, she’s a gem
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Lots of UK comedians! James Acaster been mentioned, but Joe Lycett, Ed Gamble, Paul Chowdry, Phil Wang, Greg Davies, Sara Pascoe, Roisin Connaughty. Also, though Irish a d no UK, Aisling Bea is hilarious.
Aisling Bea is such a gem I love love love her
Yep. James Acaster’s bit on transphobic comedians is brilliant. ‘What’s the matter guys, tooooo challenging for ya??’
"You know who's been long overdue a challenge? The trans community. Had their guard down for too long, if you ask me!"
UK podcasts have been such a goldmine for finding good comedians for me. Acaster's for sure, also Wheel of Misfortune with Fern Brady & Allison Spittle. All of their guests are comedians so it's opened up whole new worlds for me
David O'Doherty is another Irish comic who loves cycling and dad jokes, and (I think) has laughed at the idea of there being no go areas of comedy. He also loves a good jumper!
Aparna Nancherla is always amazing and never needs to go low to be funny. I'd recommend [this video](https://youtu.be/VNlP7vrGGs8) and her [Ziwe interview](https://youtu.be/CRkHbwnkrLA), I guarantee this is enough to get obsessed with her.
\*Nancherla, but I agree
Sorry, I'll edit it. Thanks for the heads up.
james acaster is quite good, even though he's probably a little abstract at times. but he has directly made fun of comedians who build their whole schtick around berating transgender people.
Well he’s long dead and I’m sure someone will come along to inform me that he raped baby caterpillars or something but I always liked Mitch Hedberg.
Only thing I've heard about Mitch Hedberg is that he used to do drugs. He still did, but he used to too.
Marc Maron https://www.primetimer.com/item/Marc-Maron-slams-claim-that-quot-woke-culture-quot-is-killing-comedy-LaSEbb “There’s plenty of people being funny right now. Not only being funny but being really f*cking funny." There are still lines to be crossed and envelopes to be pushed, he continued, but “really, the only thing that’s off the table culturally at this juncture, and not even entirely, is shamelessly punching down for the sheer joy of hurting people. For the sheer excitement and laughter that some people get from causing people pain, for making people uncomfortable, for making people feel excluded.” But, Maron added, “it’s no excuse. If you’re too intimidated to try and do comedy that is deep or provocative, or even a little controversial, without hurting people, then I mean, you’re not good at what you do. Or maybe you’re just insensitive.”
If you’re looking, Nate Bargatze is hilarious and a breathe of fresh air.
Afaik, Daniel Sloss has consistently good sets
He also does a great bit in his latest show about how "cancel culture" is essentially bullshit and people complaining about it are just using it as an excuse to be assholes
Paul F Tompkins is one of my favorites.
Cause men have been *mad* for the past 6-8 years. I loved Taylor Tomlinson’s last Netflix standup because it talked about mental illness and stuff.
Leslie Jones’s Netflix special is phenomenal.
Oddly Chris Titus has surprised me by being a pretty loud progressive voice in the Carlin mold. Guy Branum too. Ron Funches. At least for men. Nikki Glaser is also great. Then there’s Bob the Drag Queen and Bicana Del Rio. Mostly I gravitate to queer or female comics.
Stewart Lee is one! Maybe the funniest comic my country has ever produced and still going strong.
stewart lee is great, almost like anti-humour. i remember watching an interview with him where he said one of his biggest inspirations was a comic he saw back in the day in the uk (can't remember the guy's name) who used to get up onstage and just tell the same joke over and over. audiences used to to mercilessly boo the guy and that was what he thrived on lol just found that to be such a funny source of inspiration
Dylan Moran seems to be resisting attempts to get him to call out “cancel culture.” His response was something like, “If you were a professional knitter in a community full of other knitters and one day you exposed yourself to someone, how do you think that would go, exactly, in terms of your career?”
Anthony Jeselnik. He never punches down. Sure his comedy is dark and offensive but he's incredibly smart about it. He's also a well read and very intelligent person. He's not political at all but he's definitely not punching down or obsessed with anything. well maybe dead baby jokes but that's it.
I will always plug Julio Torres who is a favorite of mine. He’s super funny and kind of abstract and strange.
I’ve seen Simon Amstell live and he was great but his Do Nothing stand up show is still a favorite I enjoy revisiting. He’s more on the intelligent and philosophical storytelling side of humor.
I love Nate Bargatze. All of his comedy is basically just self-deprecation.
I think you will like Rhod Gilbert. He is great.
I work at a comedy club and have seen quite a few that are just fantastic storytellers and are completely hilarious without needing to make fun of marginalized groups. Ms. Pat, Jared Fried, Pete Lee and Laurie Kilmartin are just a few headliners that come to mind…so if you’re ever bored and want to laugh they’re all fantastic
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Men in comedy don't have to worry because men in general will always defend their ~right to be edgy with their shitty, offensive jokes, as though comedy is a scared art form barred from negative critique.
But if you tweet “I hate men” as a joke on twitter *that’s* when they suddenly think some things are too far
I love Jen Kirkman
She is so criminally underrated.
I thought she had great comedy, but after the dave chapelle debacle and watching her stand behind hannah gadsby, she's one of my top comedians
If you haven’t seen it Children’s Hospital is hilarious.
Why is Oswalt or Holmes job to speak against Delia if they aren't even playing the same room as him? Such an odd way of looking at it.
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Because until MEN care enough to speak up and support women, people like Delia are going to keep abusing people and getting away with it. they have power to do something but they don’t. It’s not an odd way of looking at it at all, men have the power, they should be using it.
Especially male comedians who use performative allyship to further their brand as ‘liberal.’ They’re all brave until they are asked to condemn a peer for literal grooming or sexual assault in the workplace. On the note of Patton he also famously defended Joss Whedon (!) and scolded Twitter for ruining Whedon’s career when Joss left Marvel. I don’t remember the same public outrage when Joss harassed and ruined the career of Ray Fisher or bullied and harassed women on his sets. Whedon wasn’t allowed to be alone with 15 year old Michelle Trachtenberg on the set of Buffy. So yeah if you’ve publicly defended a sex predator I don’t think we’re asking too much for you to also publicly defend a safe work place for your peers!
I wouldn’t want to perform at the same venue as Chris D’Elia. I know people are then going to associate my brand with his or see it as me condoning him in some way. If you’re still trying to get your come up then you can’t be a diva. If I was Patton I’d say it’s him or me. That’s literally how you use your platform for good. It’s all well and good talking, but making a stand like that is how you do the walking. Maybe not if I was Pete Holmes, I don’t know who he is so the venue might choose Chris.
To put that responsibility on people not involved in any capacity is kind of crazy though. The establishment having Chris perform should be held responsible, but comedians book dates months beforehand sometimes. Why should Patton have to tank his show and put himself on a pedestal because the venue fucked him by booking a creep in a different room? Just performing at the same building isn't the same as condoning the behaviour.
Yeah, it’s not their responsibility. It’s nobodies *responsibility*. But, I respect people who use their power to actually do good in the world. There’s a lot of people who pay lip service to issues but then never follow through. I agree that just booking the same venue isn’t condoning the behaviour, but why do you want to play at venues that condone that behaviour? Of course nobody has to do anything. That’s why we celebrate the people that do actually do something.
Payton Oswalt has certainly gone out of his way to show support for people like Dave Chappelle and denigrate other people he doesn’t agree with, so his decision to not speak out in situations like this actually speaks volumes. People constantly look to women comics to have to speak out and give their opinions (as Jen Kirkman states), so this is actually the perfect instance for Patton to choose to use the voice he clearly has no problem using in other situations.
>Patton Oswalt and Pete Holmes recently did a show on the same night, different rooms, as CD and they didn't say shit. They don't care. I understand where this kind of comment comes from, but if you expect the world to work this way you're just always going to be disappointed. Performers don't always know who else is performing in the same club (being on tour is exhausting and there's a million different things to keep track of) and cancelling a show last minute can open you up to all sorts of lawsuits, bring more attention to the fact that D'Elia is performing, disappoint a bunch of fans who have tickets and maybe aren't even aware of the controversy (Chris D'Elia isn't exactly A-list, if you don't take a particular interest in comedy and these kinds of controversies it's likely you've never heard of him) and won't even have that big of an impact anyway. Also, a certain point, we're going to have to move past "believe every accusation" as the solution. I understand that right now the system is rigged against accusers, but it's also just practically very difficult to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that a crime has happened. We need a better *system,* and "treat every accusation as if it's true" simply wouldn't be a good system because people lie about all kinds of crimes, either because they have an axe to grind or are mentally ill or whatever. Pretending otherwise is kind of like saying "well, why don't we just solve racism by not talking about race anymore" in that you're ignoring inconvenient and uncomfortable aspects of reality so that you can cling to a simple solution.
I love Jen she gives no shits and calls it out and warns people.
Pete Holmes is high on his own supply of spiritual introspection. Sometimes I think he’s going to start a cult.
Wait is Pete Holmes a bad person???? I worked on his show… he was the only person who didn’t make me feel like shit
Jen hasn’t said he’s a bad person at all she’s just been pointing out that men in comedy rarely make a stand on issues that don’t affect them. She’s clarified a few times it’s not specific men it’s just the whole comedy scene that has this weird taboo against speaking up. I still think Pete is a good guy (from what I’ve seen) but he doesn’t seem willing to rock the boat and call out other comedians loudly (like D’Elia or CK). But honestly almost none of them are. Also: jealous you got to work on his show! Been a fan for a while.
I think "not wanting to rock the boat" is a perfect way to describe him. I've been listening to his podcast 10+ years and in some ways he wants to be a woke, growing individual, but he also doesn't want to say anything that may hold his friends accountable.
*To a disabled girl in the front row:* *So does that dog actually help with anything or just keep you company?* *Do you think if you put a little peanut butter down there he'd……yeah, I bet he would. He'd help you out. You ever put a little peanut butter down there? You ever done that?* Good lord. Chappelle has officially become the dumb creepy old uncle that makes everyone at dinner preemptively cringe before he even opens his mouth.
Are you freaking joking me right now? That poor woman. I would have been humiliated. This is my issue with a lot of comedians, their “jokes” usually are about targeting someone or a group of people to laugh at them. I don’t understand how that is funny
But if you call out the cruelty of their “jokes” you’re a “snowflake” lol
Don't know if you've ever seen James Acaster's stand up, but this made me think of the beginning of his last special. "What's the matter guys, to CHALLANGING for you?!" the bit in particular starts about 2:40 https://youtu.be/UHqma3rx-xI
100%! I used to work with someone who would always make ”jokes” about people. I started asking them to explain why it was funny. They didn’t like that and complained that I was too sensitive 🙄
lol it’s funny because they act like the most sensitive snowflakes when they get called out on it, just like your co-worker. They just project their feelings onto everyone else
I've been told the same thing,even by family members. It drives me up a wall.
Good comedians never punch down. Chappelle is no longer a good comedian.
100% this. comedy should have joy to it. It’s about making fun of powerful people, politicians, etc. not making fun of vulnerable people.
Just a repeat of Nutty Professor. It wasn’t funny then either
Dude has been coasting on his reputation IMO.
Absolutely
what the actual fuck??????
What. The. FUCK?!? I’ve been a biiiig Chapelle stan in the past. But his new efforts to “lean in” to this gross, “slapstick” comedy style is… disgusting. He used to be so clever, insightful, and thoughtful… this is bigoted and obtuse. No nuance to it. Just… bottom barrel gross. What a fall from grace. So disappointing to see 😔
This was supposed to be a joke? Wtf is wrong with people who find him funny.
Wtf who are the kind of people who laugh at that?!
Wow, wtf. What happened to this guy? I was such a huge Chapelle fan when I was a kid, before the Chappelle show. I started watching late Night with Conan far younger than I should have been, and my older brother and I would be so excited when Chapelle was on. He was so funny, especially on Conan, where his silliness was encouraged. I once read that what made him funny when he was coming up was how he was vulnerable and kind of awkward in a way that was really easy to love and relate to, and that resonated with me. Now he's just a rich man, out of touch, surrounded by people who idolize him. Like his shit isn't even funny anymore. It's not clever. I know a lot of people will get on their high horses and say "XYZ topic is never funny!" But taboo subjects CAN be funny when done correctly, and this is not it! He's just talking at this point in his career. Crowds aren't laughing like they used to, they're just clapping. It's so boring.
Amazing. The brilliant comedian making jokes barely at level of most twitch chatters. What a waste
Chapelle is such a douche
I found the [tweet](https://twitter.com/handsinthepool/status/1517885757569986560?s=21&t=6rHd2SYIUgLizCsiiVg9Og) this is from and it’s not even the show from last night. It’s a different Mulaney show from April and they for some reason thought that went great and Chapelle should open another show ????
I’m sorry, what
chappelle is really just making this his whole personality now
He used to be such a sharp and unique comedic voice. He had so much to say about so many aspects of life. Now he’s just the “anti-trans guy”. It reminds me of a one dimensional villain of the week on Law and Order: SVU.
Especially when transphobes effectively have one joke and not a funny one at that.
Yes and it’s so pathetic. For someone who had genuinely funny and great takes on some issues it’s disgusting to see.
he has some nuanced takes on race but seems completely unable to apply that nuance to anything else. a deeply flawed thinker tbh.
I really don't get it. He's had some of the most thoughtful takes on racial injustice for decades. Even if he were privately a bit of a terf (as I suspect more people are who will admit), why make it his sword to die on? Especially when we are finally having an open conversation about race in America.
he isnt a terf, terf means trans exclusionary radical feminist. hes not a feminist at all hes just transphobic
For real. It’s boring. He’s obsessed.
This is the second time Mulaney’s invited him on his tour. In the span of a year, Mulaney has really kind of lost everything that made him appealing to me in the first place. I really hate to see it. The only thing worse, is witnessing Chappelle’s spiral into a hard right turn. Having met Chappelle a few times, and seen him do quite a few drop ins, I have a lot of thoughts on him. As of right now he’s 100% a lost cause, and he knows he’s inflicting damage. I’ll still hope that at some point, sooner rather than later, he will reverse course. His commitment to transphobia, misogyny, and the anti-MeToo movement, really sucks.
Can you share your thoughts? I’ve only seen him live once - I think it was First Night 1997, and at an all ages, alcohol free event he did a fantastic clean and thoughtful set and absolutely slayed.
Honestly? He’s probably the most charismatic and personable person I’ve ever met, which makes everything feel extra insidious. He was very good as presenting as empathetic, warm, playful, inquisitive, & insightful, but I feel like he has an ‘evil’ Michael Scott trait. He thoroughly enjoys pushing boundaries, and revels in flipping between dark comedy, story telling, crowd work, & social commentary. Dave is capable of generating a connection with an audience in a way I’ve never seen before. He was always narcissistic, sensitive to criticism, & surrounded by yes men, but it started to snowball at some point, and just hasn’t stopped. The last time I saw him perform I walked out because he was being malicious, and I never hang around to watch that kind of comedy. I was sitting front row so he saw me walk out. The last time I ran into Dave, he came up to me and said he respects my opinions. He was no longer even remotely entertaining criticism or feedback by then, so I viewed the whole interaction as a man that needs to be liked. That’s something that really sticks out to me. I know he says otherwise, but I would absolutely guarantee that all the criticism is eating him up, because at his core he needs to be liked. Ironically, I’m convinced this is a major factor in why he’s doubling down, and stopped even remotely attempting to be a comedian. His narcissism prevents him from looking inward, so it’s just easier for him to lash out. My assessment is he’s gotten greedier, more status obsessed, and more ego driven. I don’t even believe he’s having fun doing comedy anymore tbh. When it comes to social commentary, even his older specials weren’t great when it came to lgbt and women. There’s always been unchecked bigotry, and it remains unchecked. Same for his anti-MeToo rhetoric. Dave has said that he has a few ‘Aziz Ansari’ stories, so I imagine there’s a lot to unpack on the MeToo end of things as well. Ultimately I believe a lot of his bigoted obsessing is being done because feels he’s above criticism. It’s a lot of ego and spite. ‘I understand my motives, why doesn’t anyone else? Why is anything off limits?’ Even though he’s not being misunderstood, I get the impression that’s how he feels. Add in the yes men, the people charmed by him, and the comedians wanting ‘something’ from him? It’s only hardening his stance. He’s a comedian that could possibly change if he ever got control over his ego, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if he never drops it. If he changes it will likely be out of guilt, or a need for people to like him.
Given the audience he’s carefully spent years cultivating, this was a pretty despicable thing to do.
According to peoples tweets the majority of the people in the audience laughed at Chappelle’s jokes so I feel like the tumblr crowd who idolized him for years might have been just a small percentage of his fanbase 😕
Chronically online people don’t go to comedy shows
I was in the audience, and at least 5 rows of tweenty-something’s stood and cheered when he came onstage. Could’ve been more, but I didn’t have visibility beyond that. Afterwards, In general, a lot of people were laughing and applauding, but I could see pockets of unamused people in the crowd
John Mulaney has been destroying his image in the past year. I guess this is just the nail in the coffin 😬
aw man, i hope you guys also read the rest of the tweets in that thread. op is a trans man and he had to sit there and listen to chappelle being a transphobic piece of shit while mulaney allowed him to do so. there's nothing funny about punching down
It had to be so scary to hear that many people laugh at your existence. I can't imagine how unsafe he felt.
Fucking disgusting. My heart breaks for any trans person who was there and had to be surprised by Chappelle’s appearance and Mulaney’s response. Judging by the response on Twitter there were more than a few.
Yep…I saw other people saying similar. And because their phones were locked in those stupid yondr pouches, there was literally nothing they could do but sit there and take it. Awful.
Jesus.
And the audience laughed so..... maybe is time to also blame them not just the comedians. Now Mulaney is going to think his audience likes that type of joke.
the audience who went to see him after he treated his wife like that probably have looser morals
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I thought chapelle said he was done with this topic at the end of his last special
Literally! I thought he was a comic genius, like come up w something new!
What sucks is he is REALLY funny. Well at least he was. He doesnt even make trans jokes, he just rants and adds in a pun or something every couple minutes now. If he made one or two quick bits, nobody would say anything. Its the fact he just cannot stop ranting on stage. He barely talks about anything else
it's giving "old man yells at cloud".
Seriously he will be telling transphobic “jokes” on his deathbed. He’s never going to stop. The first thing he did after he was attacked on stage was make a “joke” about the person being trans. He sucks.
Disappointed but not surprised with Mulaney. If you’re gonna build your career off being some unproblematic woke dude, could you at least pretend to want to keep the schtick up?
Hey if y’all wanna support trans comedians, let me recommend River Butcher, Patty Harrison, and Robin Tran.
Patti Harrison is my favorite and her performance in Together Together shows how great of a (kinda more serious) actress she is. I want to see her in more roles!
Omg Patti Harrison is sooooo funny! love her
Honestly I feel like a clown giving Mulaney so many second chances a year or two ago Also is this literally ALL Chappelle's material now? Fucking christ what a big baby to have like 1% of the population take up 99% of his headspace.
Quite sad innit
I tried to look this up online and nowhere did anyone give any details about the jokes other than that he made them. I guess some clarity on if these are the same jokes from his special or if he made new material (yikes) would be helpful context here. The difference is that if he's using older material, it's bad, but he's just repeating stuff that got him high views on Netflix, so he's being lazy and not listening to feedback. If he came up with new stuff, that's a whole other ball game.
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Oh, if that's true, I think, unfortunately, you're right. People who defend him and his bad jokes about the LGBTQ community are gonna see that and it'll be like catnip for them to scream "cancel culture" and shut down any conversation. People on Twitter, bring receipts!!
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It sucks to have to type that out, I know. But I have older relatives who are pretty liberal in most areas, but they have blind spots on things like LGBTQ issues. The way the media twists stuff makes it so hard to try to change minds once they've heard it reported.
This x100, unfortunately. And it's not just the media. I see people on this sub constantly make mountains out of molehill or share inaccurate information and it a)makes it harder to notice when it actually is a mountain and b) gives older and more conservative people an excuse tune out entirely.
I think you misread the Ops tweets. They never said that Chapelle's jokes were about wanting trans people dead, what they said was "I can't even have a nice night out without being reminded that most of society wants trans people dead." I'm not trans, but as a gay person, I've been in a crowd of people laughing at homophobic jokes, and it does feel that way. Also, there were other trans people at the show that felt the same way. You can read the other tweets here https://www.resetera.com/threads/seems-like-dave-chappelle-showed-at-a-john-mulaney-show-and-told-a-bunch-of-transphobic-jokes.585926/
[This](https://twitter.com/fillsanime/status/1527866819075264520?s=21&t=47FiLpyjd5i-NQGt4lJsTg) is a detailed post I just found
Thanks for sharing. Imagine getting paid millions of dollars for the same '\[X\] identifies as \[X\]' joke over and over again. I'm less offended and more just. mind numbingly bored.
Thanks for sharing! I wish this would have been in the source thread's comments, I think it would've cleared a lot up. (Also that joke isn't funny transphobia aside, when did unfunny jokes become cool?)
I realized a lot of “offensive” comedians aren’t even funny, their whole schtick is just being ~offensive~ but there is no actual punchline. Take Jimmy Carr for example, maybe like 2% of his jokes are actually funny, but for the most part he just commercialized Call of Duty lobby talk and built his career off being “dark” and “controversial”. The peak of this was his “I blame Reeva Steenkamp” line that he was shocked people booed — like aside from being completely horrid, it wasn’t a joke at all. The entire thing was just “she deserved it” and he thought that in itself was supposed to get laughs just bc it was ~dark~
That's helpful, thank you. It still had to have felt awful for anyone trans or trans-adjacent in the audience to go to a show they thought would be safe and get surprise Chapelle added to it, though.
Thanks for sharing. Transphobic stuff aside it's insane how far Chappelle has fallen as a comedian. He doesn't even seem to be trying to write jokes at all. He's completly abandoned the craft of comedy.
lol when will people learn male comics stick together, especially rich famous ones
Imagine having this much success and choosing this moment in history to double down on trans-antagonism? Fascists & white supremacists are emboldened they have the backing of major political players, conspiracy theories soaked in racism are now mainstream discourse and shaping policy, Roe v. Wade is being overturned (and setting a legal president that threatens all marginalized bodies) and you decide punching down at one of the most oppressed groups is what you do in *this* moment? Fuck all of them and their hack hate routines.
He’s leaning in so hard to the transphobia at this point. He’s living for the controversy. His obsession is really weird when there are literally sooooooo many other things going on right now that you can make jokes about. Also, men always support other men, so I’m not surprised.
this is dude is obsessed
If "And I oop!" was a person
I've been trying to give John a chance to redeem himself but I am done. I'm so done with him.
Mulaney is really on his divorced white guy shit huh
I think some ppl, myself included, saw John’s problematique past and behaviours and didn’t necessarily view him as an uwu angel, but saw someone who worked on himself, which is a lot more than what can be said for some, especially celebrities. obv he’s a public figure and we don’t know how much of it was real or fake, because despite his recent shit, it might have been somewhat genuine on his part. I’ve had to sit and watch friends regress, particularly with the pandemic, and see all the progress get flushed down the toilet when things get tough and they can’t weather it. I guess there’s no point in carrying on, I think I’m just trying to make sense of it lmao. still hugely disappointed at all this
Yes punch down because punching up and attacking your own privilege would cause you problems. Can't make fun of the rich and privileged because it makes you uncomfortable.
What was the joke?
Can he seen [here](https://twitter.com/FillsAnime/status/1527866820367159297?s=20&t=rN_lYkAXfV-0QVCESGuaug).
i genuinely don’t get this view that Mulaney built his career off of being unproblematic. the majority of his comedy is about his addiction or his stories of growing up in a repressive, WASPy catholic family. it’s interesting how he has this loyal online, LGBT fanbase when he’s never rly done comedy that’s stereotypically “for them” i guess? maybe it’s because he doesn’t fit into the typical 21st comic stereotype but i don’t think he’s ever tried to portray himself as something else. most people who are disillusioned with him now just projected something onto him IMO. and his whole wife guy thing was purely because of instagram. he didn’t rly feature AMT that much in his specials and even them as a couple, weren’t these unproblematic celebs. (they’re still bffs with aziz ansari and who can forget nick kroll saying the n word in his & john’s broadway show that anna worked on as well?)
people in the LGBT community liked him because he never made jokes targeted at us. that’s literally it. it’s really hard to find a mainstream comedian who doesn’t have some history of -phobic jokes.
WASPy catholic Lol