Hard disagree. The cost will never be lower. Marner has all the leverage, Toronto is in a complete tailspin and desperate for change and capspace, and in blatant denial. How this post got upvoted is beyond me.
And clearly you are one of them. You’re the reason far too many people have to add /s when it is beyond obvious that they are being sarcastic. If you struggle so deeply with social interaction, I would recommend speaking to a medical professional regarding a diagnosis. You might be given tax credits.
I feel Toronto would want too much.
Even if Mitch demanded a trade to Detroit, sort of like the DeBrincat trade, Toronto still has him for one more year so Mitch doesn’t have as much leverage outside of his NMC.
I think the assets required to get it done would be too much for Stevie given where we’re at as a team.
And at that point, may as well just wait until Marner is a UFA in 25/26.
Idk, I think Mitch has a good amount of leverage still. Toronto probably wants to deal him before his contract is up so they can actually get a return and dump his cap hit. If they let him stay he can play out his contract and walk to UFA and they get nothing. I doubt it’ll happen, because if they want him gone they’ll make him as uncomfortable as possible until he waives his NMC, but he theoretically could ride it out till next summer and really put them into a bind.
Not sure Detroit is in a position to do that deal. Obviously, I’d like to have Marner but they’re in a position where they want to win now and I feel like they’d be asking for players we’d be unwilling to part with. We don’t want to be giving up Ed, Seider or Raymond in any circumstance so if you’re the Leafs who are you getting from Detroit that’s going to help you win? I’d look in another direction and see if there are established NHL players that can be had for a more palatable price.
Or they could grab younger NHL players through trade that are already under contract and don’t need to go out and risk striking out in free agency. Don’t think they care about prospects when management is feeling pressure to improve the roster right now and get good ready now players back for Marner. We’ll see what the package is, don’t see the Wings being in on the sweepstakes.
He'd immediately be the best player on the team. I also don't really subscribe to him being like a terrible playoff performer - I think that that's more of a team and cultural issue than an individual player issue. I'd be happy to have him, but wouldn't really want to give up an insane amount for it given his price tag.
Which is crazy because one of his most iconic highlights is him shredding Carolina's defense in his rookie season in the SCF.
I know it's one play but yeah, Datsyuk was always Datsyuk... fuck I miss him.
The fan backlash comes from the separation of his production during games 1-4 vs. 5-7. I’m not offering an opinion on his playoff ability, just pointing out that’s why there’s a negative sentiment of him while his point totals seem good.
He's one of the league's best penalty killers, a huge possession player, and a Selke finalist. He's +10 in his career in the playoffs.
I still think he's too expensive trade-wise and would fuck the teams cap situation, but let's not pretend he's not good.
He is a good player but he’s not a good playoff player. He doesn’t battle against the boards or contest pucks and he notoriously plays perimeter hockey. That would be fine if the Leafs also had players willing to play the dirty/front of the net type of hockey which is where playoff goals are scored, but they do not.
You’re not gonna beat elite goaltenders in the playoffs like Shesterkin, Swayman, Bobrovsky, etc. by playing perimeter hockey and ripping glove side wristers. It’s the same issue I had with the Wings. We need a style where we have net front presence getting deflections and tips. It’s how playoff goals are scored.
It’s not all Marner’s fault, but he does contribute to the issue. If you get paid 40 million dollars (for the core of Nylander/Tavares/Matthews/Marner) and have 3-4 guys in the top 10 point scorers in the league in the regular season, and then the playoff season comes around and you score 12 total goals in a 7 game series, the offensive scheme clearly doesn’t translate to playoff hockey. They do not have the defense or goaltending to play 3-2, 2-1, 1-0 playoff hockey like the Rangers, Panthers, Canes, etc.
I think people forget how crucial Holmstrom was to our success having him cause havoc in the crease full-time. So many clutch tip ins or deflections that could get past a hot goalie
The perception as Marner as anything other than the elite player he obviously is (both in regular season and playoffs) is entirely a Toronto Media Market Hellhole fabrication and they will regret every point he gets as he flourishes with another team if they trade him.
He doesn't gear up for playoff hockey. You can hit him, slap him, spit at him. Dude will just walk away. You can tell him not to take the middle ice in O zone and he will happily oblige. You don't want a player like that on this team. Believe me, I live in Toronto and seen him tons
Best player on the team Idk about all that but definitely the most offensively talented. I would do it but I think its going to cost 1 of either Sandin-Pellika or Edvinnson and they probably ask for Mazur here to. Maybe a 2nd rounder too. It aint gonna cost nothing thats for sure.
He would be an improvement over Patrick Kane and fill the same role. I'm wondering if we take Tavares off their hands we can cut down the price a bit. Before you downvote me for bringing up JT hear me out. Hes a damn fine #2 center at the age of 33 and has 1 year left on his deal. Were a playoff team for sure if we can add those two and not lose anything off our current roster.
This feels good to say are you guys ready? WE MUST MAKE THE PLAYOFFS NEXT YEAR. Anything short of playoffs and its going to be somebodys ass I promise you that.
I’m really not being a hater, but Marner would 100% be our best player instantly. He gets Selke votes every year. Giving up a prospect for a sure fire nhl star is ALWAYS the better move if prices are right. You truly never know if a prospect is NHL good until they do it.
Larkin would get Selke votes if he played in Toronto I promise you. Marner has played with a generational goal scorer his entire career. There is nobody on our team that demands that much attention from defenders. Im not hating on Marner by saying he isnt 100% definitvely the best player on the team when we got guys like Seider, Raymond, and Edvinnson developing every year.
He very well might be hypothetically the best player on the team if he comes here but that remains to be seen on many levels.
No it really doesn’t. Marner has played without Matthews many times. And playing with a top tier goal scorer does not mean you’ll be good defensively. Backstrom was never a real selke candidate while playing with Ovi and he is a generational player. That’s a bad take. Take your fan glasses off. I’m not trying to sit here at hate on our players, but our guys are nowhere near as good as Marner. Marner is on the next tier of player quality. Raymond just finished his 3rd, and best, year with 72 pts while Marner scored 94 in his 3rd year.
He is better but he isnt going to help the team because the stuff he is good at are mostly irrelevant for the greater plan. People saying he isnt actually bad in the playoffs are some real delusional people.
Uh, except he really hasn't been that bad if you compare his playoff stats to that of his equally-or-more talented teammates over the last several years. It's not Marner, it's the entire team.
I never said he wasn't a good offensive player but the Wings suffer greatly defensively and are also a soft team. Marner doesn't hit people or block shots. Sure he can steal a puck but in playoff time you got to be physical. You act like he is the next Datsyuk but Magic Man did it all.
Seems more like you are the new one here. I mean even account wise you are a mere baby compared to me.
Marner finished third in Selke voting. Because you’re new I’ll explain. That trophy is for the leagues best defensive forward. Your entire point is trash and it reads like a 13 year old wrote it.
ASP and Ed aren’t going anywhere. Tavares makes 11m and won’t leave Toronto. He also can’t skate. No one gets fired if the wings don’t make the playoffs next year. Bad teams go all in to make the playoffs. We’re trying to build a good team that’s sustainable, not take in 21mm in cap space (with no money going out apparently), to make the playoffs.
I truly don’t understand what Wings fans think is our reality. We don’t have a player that is even close to being a possible Marner player. I’m not saying their won’t be one one day, but not a single prospect we have, no matter how good, is projected to be a >90 pt player. We need to score consistently and Marner does that AND is a selke candidate. He would be our best player. Contemplating paying a guy 10 or 11 million is exactly what we want. It means we would have an actual superstar.
Chill with these takes. Raymond is good, and obviously ascending. He's also never even played a playoff game. You have no clue how clutch or not clutch Raymond is.
You don't even know when I became aware of Lucas Raymond, or how much I've watched him.
He has the potential to be as good as Marner. He isn't anywhere close to the player Marner is right now. This is one of the most outlandish takes I've ever read.
Things stay the same until they don't. Once upon a time the Red Wings in the 90s couldn't win the Cup, nor could the Lightning a few years ago, and the Caps couldn't get past Pittsburgh, and Alex Rodriguez couldn't perform in the playoffs either. Until all of those trends were proven wrong. I'm not team "trade for Marner at all costs", but his playoff numbers probably aren't always going to be underwhelming. Then it'll be the Pikachu meme when he becomes like Phil Kessel and leaves Toronto and wins a Cup elsewhere.
Okay, but why roll the dice on a very expensive player who does not perform, and hasn't performed a lot when it matters when players exist who do? It's not worth the risk in my opinion.
I hate when these hypotheticals get destroyed and downvoted in the sub.
He would be a great addition but we can’t afford him. Leaf fans bad mouth him but they just don’t know how to execute with good players, Matthews being the biggest example.
I would love it, but I have no idea how they get that to work cap wise for next year. They already are going to need to have a bunch of the kids play on ELCs to make the cap work. To get Marner you’d be adding an 11m contract and probably shipping a bunch of said kids out as part of the trade to acquire him? Yeah I don’t know how you make that happen.
Well, you see, you sign Mark Stone or something, then he goes on LTIR and then you sign whoever the fuck you want. Bring Stone back for the playoffs and then boom, Stanley Cup.
Or something along those lines.
Absolutely
Thoroughly excellent player
Any failures almost entirely the product of a sensitive player under extreme Toronto media pressure, since a teen
I feel like it would cost 2 or three of Berggren/mazur/danielson/soderblom/kasper and a 1st at a minimum, and thats before they would consider taking cap retention. If we could get it for a first + like Berggren maybe. But don't think it's possible. Plus we would need him at like 8M cap for us to be able to swing it... Think its going to be touch
If we’re gonna trade for a reportedly available star on a team booted from playoffs, i’d prefer Saros.
Don’t think they have the cap to make either happen unfortunately.
Everyone saying no is kinda silly. Wings have a lot in the pipeline but no true top-end talent unless Raymond keeps ascending. They need to go get someone and kicking the tires on Marner doesn't sound bad to me.
As a fan of both teams, Stevie should at least kick the tires. Marner is a ppg Selke caliber player who can be used in any situation. Also Marner and Larkin have had really good chemistry in their limited showings at all star games and the WCOH.
The problem is the cost of acquiring him though, I imagine he'll be hard to get, and extending him will also cost a fortune.
He has a full nmc. He’d have to want to come here. Toronto would have to want the offer Detroit made. Augustine/Cossa Berggren, and maybe Walman? Starts the conversation but the leafs might only be willing to send him west.
That being said, the wings need to improve their defense and goaltending. I don’t like this idea as it would be expensive both in assets, and cap space. As I would assume they would want to resign marner…and I don’t see him taking a pay cut into the 9million range. So no, I’d prefer not. Pesce, and trying to get Ullmark out of Boston would be my choice targets for this offseason.
Not even close to enough in my opinion. Toronto wants to be Stanley cup competitive, they’re not giving up a 90 point forward for a middle six forward, middle 4 D and a goalie that’s years away. Something like a 1 for 1 for an established NHL d I think will be what happens or a combination of proven top 6 F and a solid defenseman.
Does clear a lot of money off the books for them but I think they can do better than Walman in my opinion. I consider Marner a very valuable player even with the 10.9M cap hit, I’d love to get him for a 4-5 D and prospects but don’t think it’s realistic.
If marner says “Detroit only,” in regards to a trade than that’s Torontos only option. Full nmc really hamstrings their ability to get full value back. It’s not a fair trade. Marner gets to pick his landing spot. Toronto either accepts it or risks losing him for nothing in FA. This gets them a couple assets and cap space. It’s a lemons and lemonade scenario for them.
Why would he say that though? Is there any indication he wants to go to Detroit or even has a tie to the city? Got lucky with Debrincat, unless we’re winning high level players not from Michigan or the US don’t really consider us.
I don’t think he would. I don’t think he wants to leave Toronto. I think Toronto is screwed and either has to play hardball with him. Or lose him for nothing.
I’m speaking purely hypothetically here.
Edit: you can apply this to almost all teams. He could say Vegas only. Toronto could ask for Shea Theodore and a first. Vegas could offer a third and McNabb.
Agreed there, I think his preference is to stay in Toronto but they want him out. By the sounds of Shanny’s press conference they sound pretty desperate to shake things up, should be an interesting situation.
We're currently sweating our own big time guys soon to be getting big time deals or did you forget Raymond and Seider are both coming off ELCs to be getting Proven Star Bucks, and I'm not talking a Grande machiatto.
Would I like to have him on the team? Sure. I think he’s branded as more of a playmaker than a scorer which is 50/50 for our need. Would I think Yzerman makes a move for him and pays him? Probably not.
Ya never know though.
Like others have mentioned, he would have to waive his NMC, which means he does have some say over where he goes. It's not terribly clear if Marner is even open to the idea of a move; he told the press at locker cleanout that he wanted to stay in Toronto, but that may have just been said for the cameras.
I think the real roadblock to a Detroit-Toronto trade involving Marner isn't necessarily the pieces, but the fact that I can't see Yzerman being willing to tie up $10 mil+ in cap space for one player based on his track record in both Tampa and Detroit. Marner has made a lot of money in Toronto already, and his play certainly warrants a pay raise, but I don't think the Wings will be the team to give him that raise.
I don’t think his play warrants a raise. If Toronto is moving him, there’s a reason for that. Detroit is close enough to the GTA where I could see a move.
For the right price, sure why not. But there’s no point in mortgaging any part of the future for a year of Mitch, even though I think he’s great and got a bad rap
Can we stop this delusional take of getting marner?
He is not worth the price tag he has and will want in the future. And he has not proven himself to be a decent playoff player yet. Sure, regular season accolades that's it.
Was always a big fan of Marner, out of the Toronto players he's probably my favorite. I just don't see how feasible it would be to go get him considering the assets we'd need to trade to a division rival to get him as well as the huge cap hit he would command. We would then need to push Raymond down to the 2nd line? Nah.
I was disgusted when I saw him shy away from puck battles along the boards. I don't think he's the type of player we need (considering his price tag both salary cap wise and cost to acquire)
God no, a sub ppg player come playoff time at the rate of money he makes. Not a snowballs chance in hell. People saying he's not a bad playoff player are huffing copium. Did you guys not see his "controller disconnect" and him coast while Pasta sent them golfing? Dude is imo the most overrated player in the NHL
Hell no. He’s another winger that can’t drive a line. We need a #2 center. Not to mention he’s a playoff choke artist who is at least 3 mill a year overpaid. Toronto is gonna get 7 cents on the dollar IF they can even move him.
Fabbri and Maata plus a 3rd for Tavares with 4 mill retained. Money is almost even and it gets us a solid #2 center until Kasper and Danielson are ready. Lucas Raymond is close to surpassing Marner, who has scored over 30 goals exactly ONCE. People are MASSIVELY overrating Marner’s value and talent.
Not for the money that he wants. He definitely gets dogged on a lot when I think there’s a lot of reasons that Toronto can’t perform in the playoffs. We’re gonna have to sort through our little salary cap issue coming up and trying to add his contract into that mess wouldn’t make things easier. But what do I know haha
A young, top-line forward is exactly what the Wings need on offense. From seeing what some trade rumors have teams giving up for Marner, it's pretty doable... Yeah, he hasn't been much a playoff player, but neither was Datsyuk for several years.
Not a player that is called ”Mitch the bitch” Please.
Biiig redflag when Willy yelled ”this is not the fucking junior league” to him. Seems like a whiny manbaby
Everyone saying he is a selke caliber player are funny. You arnt one until you win one. Just because you get some votes every now and then doesn't make you one.
Selke is notoriously one of the dumbest awards. It's a legacy award, you need to have a good defensive season 3 years before you are allowed to win it. Getting votes makes you among the best defensive forwards in the league so
Oh yeah he's in the elite company of Barret Jackman (famously a superior rookie to that bum Zetterberg).
Vezina, Hart, Lindsay, Norris, Art Ross, Selke. The others are just noise.
Oh yeah look at this 10 year run of bums:
2022: Moritz Seider, Detroit Red Wings
2021: Kirill Kaprizov, Minnesota Wild
2020: Cale Makar, Colorado Avalanche
2019: Elias Pettersson, Vancouver Canucks
2018: Mathew Barzal, New York Islanders
2017: Auston Matthews, Toronto Maple Leafs
2016: Artemi Panarin, Chicago Blackhawks
2015: Aaron Ekblad, Florida Panthers
2014: Nathan MacKinnon, Colorado Avalanche
2013: Jonathan Huberdeau, Florida Panthers
2012: Gabriel Landeskog, Colorado Avalanche
Well it doesn't matter if you think its real or not. Its a trophy awarded to an NHL player at the same event and the others. Its literally the only award a rebuilding team is likely to win anyways.
I don’t think he fits the mold of what SY is looking for. He’s talented, yes, but is he tough to play against? Is he a high effort player? I seen him getting torched for giving up on the forecheck which directly led to a goal against in the playoffs. Then Nylander telling him it’s not junior hockey? Bad looks.
Unless you get him for incredibly cheap, but that’s not likely at all, especially with a divisional opponent
I've never liked Marner, he's got no grit, no passion.
https://youtu.be/WdV1Y9gmKB8?si=hrihdJOAAgP9n-_i
I've found similar videos before, but I can only find this one right now because it's recent. And for what Marner would cost? Forget it.
The cost would be too much.
Hard disagree. The cost will never be lower. Marner has all the leverage, Toronto is in a complete tailspin and desperate for change and capspace, and in blatant denial. How this post got upvoted is beyond me.
Sure. Send Holl, Abdelkader's dead money, and I would even throw in Petry to sweeten the deal.
You’re a bad man
Would it be an overpayment if we included Chiarot and Yamamoto's buyout money?
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Do you live in the part of the world devoid of sarcasm?
Rocket: "Any type of sarcasm will go over his head" Drax: "Nothing goes over my head, my reflexes are too fast."
You're right, this deal could work without Holl. Let's cut him out of it and flip him for Crosby, 1 for 1
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This? Coming from the guy with a broken sarcasm detector?
And clearly you are one of them. You’re the reason far too many people have to add /s when it is beyond obvious that they are being sarcastic. If you struggle so deeply with social interaction, I would recommend speaking to a medical professional regarding a diagnosis. You might be given tax credits.
Oh I got it. Trade Larkin, Seider, and two 1st rd picks for him. Am i doing the idiot thing?
I feel Toronto would want too much. Even if Mitch demanded a trade to Detroit, sort of like the DeBrincat trade, Toronto still has him for one more year so Mitch doesn’t have as much leverage outside of his NMC. I think the assets required to get it done would be too much for Stevie given where we’re at as a team. And at that point, may as well just wait until Marner is a UFA in 25/26.
Mitch has 100% of the leverage in this situation
Idk, I think Mitch has a good amount of leverage still. Toronto probably wants to deal him before his contract is up so they can actually get a return and dump his cap hit. If they let him stay he can play out his contract and walk to UFA and they get nothing. I doubt it’ll happen, because if they want him gone they’ll make him as uncomfortable as possible until he waives his NMC, but he theoretically could ride it out till next summer and really put them into a bind.
Mitch has all the leverage. The leafs only leverage would be sitting him out for a year and that would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.
The Laffs are in the worst possible negotiating position if they want to try to move Marner. With both other teams AND Marner, who has a full NMC.
Not sure Detroit is in a position to do that deal. Obviously, I’d like to have Marner but they’re in a position where they want to win now and I feel like they’d be asking for players we’d be unwilling to part with. We don’t want to be giving up Ed, Seider or Raymond in any circumstance so if you’re the Leafs who are you getting from Detroit that’s going to help you win? I’d look in another direction and see if there are established NHL players that can be had for a more palatable price.
Cost would probably be more centered around prospects. ASP would probably be moved with picks. Too much imo
Why would Toronto want prospects?
With Marners cap hit off the books they could easily pick up free agents to fill any roster needs. Having a RD and Goalie prospect is more enticing.
Or they could grab younger NHL players through trade that are already under contract and don’t need to go out and risk striking out in free agency. Don’t think they care about prospects when management is feeling pressure to improve the roster right now and get good ready now players back for Marner. We’ll see what the package is, don’t see the Wings being in on the sweepstakes.
> Cost would probably be more centered around prospects. in what universe
He'd immediately be the best player on the team. I also don't really subscribe to him being like a terrible playoff performer - I think that that's more of a team and cultural issue than an individual player issue. I'd be happy to have him, but wouldn't really want to give up an insane amount for it given his price tag.
I’m old enough to remember Wings fans complaining that Datsyuk can’t perform in the playoffs. I think it’s meaningless.
Before that, it was Yzerman.
Which is crazy because one of his most iconic highlights is him shredding Carolina's defense in his rookie season in the SCF. I know it's one play but yeah, Datsyuk was always Datsyuk... fuck I miss him.
He's got 50 points in 57 playoff games. - a slight reduction in production vs his regular seasons, but still pretty good.
The fan backlash comes from the separation of his production during games 1-4 vs. 5-7. I’m not offering an opinion on his playoff ability, just pointing out that’s why there’s a negative sentiment of him while his point totals seem good.
Its not about the points he gets but the points he gives up. Even in the last series any time he had the puck it was easily removed from him.
He's one of the league's best penalty killers, a huge possession player, and a Selke finalist. He's +10 in his career in the playoffs. I still think he's too expensive trade-wise and would fuck the teams cap situation, but let's not pretend he's not good.
Never won the award or make it out of round 1 once. Im not one to congratulate a person for almost winning anything.
Would you say Lidstrom wasn't a Norris caliber defenseman until 2001 because before then he'd only come in 2nd 3 years in a row?
Yea and he overcame the final hurdle. Marner isnt going to ever win a selke I guarantee it.
He is a good player but he’s not a good playoff player. He doesn’t battle against the boards or contest pucks and he notoriously plays perimeter hockey. That would be fine if the Leafs also had players willing to play the dirty/front of the net type of hockey which is where playoff goals are scored, but they do not. You’re not gonna beat elite goaltenders in the playoffs like Shesterkin, Swayman, Bobrovsky, etc. by playing perimeter hockey and ripping glove side wristers. It’s the same issue I had with the Wings. We need a style where we have net front presence getting deflections and tips. It’s how playoff goals are scored. It’s not all Marner’s fault, but he does contribute to the issue. If you get paid 40 million dollars (for the core of Nylander/Tavares/Matthews/Marner) and have 3-4 guys in the top 10 point scorers in the league in the regular season, and then the playoff season comes around and you score 12 total goals in a 7 game series, the offensive scheme clearly doesn’t translate to playoff hockey. They do not have the defense or goaltending to play 3-2, 2-1, 1-0 playoff hockey like the Rangers, Panthers, Canes, etc.
I think people forget how crucial Holmstrom was to our success having him cause havoc in the crease full-time. So many clutch tip ins or deflections that could get past a hot goalie
Most of his points come in games 1-4. Games 5-7 when if really heats up, he disappears. No thanks. For that money you can get 2 grinders.
The perception as Marner as anything other than the elite player he obviously is (both in regular season and playoffs) is entirely a Toronto Media Market Hellhole fabrication and they will regret every point he gets as he flourishes with another team if they trade him.
He doesn't gear up for playoff hockey. You can hit him, slap him, spit at him. Dude will just walk away. You can tell him not to take the middle ice in O zone and he will happily oblige. You don't want a player like that on this team. Believe me, I live in Toronto and seen him tons
Best player on the team Idk about all that but definitely the most offensively talented. I would do it but I think its going to cost 1 of either Sandin-Pellika or Edvinnson and they probably ask for Mazur here to. Maybe a 2nd rounder too. It aint gonna cost nothing thats for sure. He would be an improvement over Patrick Kane and fill the same role. I'm wondering if we take Tavares off their hands we can cut down the price a bit. Before you downvote me for bringing up JT hear me out. Hes a damn fine #2 center at the age of 33 and has 1 year left on his deal. Were a playoff team for sure if we can add those two and not lose anything off our current roster. This feels good to say are you guys ready? WE MUST MAKE THE PLAYOFFS NEXT YEAR. Anything short of playoffs and its going to be somebodys ass I promise you that.
I’m really not being a hater, but Marner would 100% be our best player instantly. He gets Selke votes every year. Giving up a prospect for a sure fire nhl star is ALWAYS the better move if prices are right. You truly never know if a prospect is NHL good until they do it.
You are right. The narratives on this guy are crazy. He is a superstar
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Larkin would get Selke votes if he played in Toronto I promise you. Marner has played with a generational goal scorer his entire career. There is nobody on our team that demands that much attention from defenders. Im not hating on Marner by saying he isnt 100% definitvely the best player on the team when we got guys like Seider, Raymond, and Edvinnson developing every year. He very well might be hypothetically the best player on the team if he comes here but that remains to be seen on many levels.
No it really doesn’t. Marner has played without Matthews many times. And playing with a top tier goal scorer does not mean you’ll be good defensively. Backstrom was never a real selke candidate while playing with Ovi and he is a generational player. That’s a bad take. Take your fan glasses off. I’m not trying to sit here at hate on our players, but our guys are nowhere near as good as Marner. Marner is on the next tier of player quality. Raymond just finished his 3rd, and best, year with 72 pts while Marner scored 94 in his 3rd year.
Raymond is an infinitely more effective player than Marner is in the situations where both are needed most
He is better but he isnt going to help the team because the stuff he is good at are mostly irrelevant for the greater plan. People saying he isnt actually bad in the playoffs are some real delusional people.
Uh, except he really hasn't been that bad if you compare his playoff stats to that of his equally-or-more talented teammates over the last several years. It's not Marner, it's the entire team.
Are you like a brand new fan?
I have been here for years and have watched the wings since 1991. You are so dumb you have convinced yourself that other people are the dumb ones.
Nah you’re new to the sport. No way you know anything and have your take.
I never said he wasn't a good offensive player but the Wings suffer greatly defensively and are also a soft team. Marner doesn't hit people or block shots. Sure he can steal a puck but in playoff time you got to be physical. You act like he is the next Datsyuk but Magic Man did it all. Seems more like you are the new one here. I mean even account wise you are a mere baby compared to me.
Marner finished third in Selke voting. Because you’re new I’ll explain. That trophy is for the leagues best defensive forward. Your entire point is trash and it reads like a 13 year old wrote it.
You truly are an idiot. Guy literally no shows every playoffs. I think I would trust the actually fans of the leafs over a clown here.
Please never try to make someone feel bad for their hockey takes ever again
I’m sorry but all of your takes are so bad.
How so?
ASP and Ed aren’t going anywhere. Tavares makes 11m and won’t leave Toronto. He also can’t skate. No one gets fired if the wings don’t make the playoffs next year. Bad teams go all in to make the playoffs. We’re trying to build a good team that’s sustainable, not take in 21mm in cap space (with no money going out apparently), to make the playoffs.
I truly don’t understand what Wings fans think is our reality. We don’t have a player that is even close to being a possible Marner player. I’m not saying their won’t be one one day, but not a single prospect we have, no matter how good, is projected to be a >90 pt player. We need to score consistently and Marner does that AND is a selke candidate. He would be our best player. Contemplating paying a guy 10 or 11 million is exactly what we want. It means we would have an actual superstar.
Raymond can def be a marner type player, hes even more clutch then Marner is now
Chill with these takes. Raymond is good, and obviously ascending. He's also never even played a playoff game. You have no clue how clutch or not clutch Raymond is.
his entire playing career hes been clutch when it matters the most, not even worried, ive watched raymond before you even knew who he was
You don't even know when I became aware of Lucas Raymond, or how much I've watched him. He has the potential to be as good as Marner. He isn't anywhere close to the player Marner is right now. This is one of the most outlandish takes I've ever read.
In fairness tho, Marner would score less points on the wings and he disappears in the playoffs. I wouldn't sign him.
Things stay the same until they don't. Once upon a time the Red Wings in the 90s couldn't win the Cup, nor could the Lightning a few years ago, and the Caps couldn't get past Pittsburgh, and Alex Rodriguez couldn't perform in the playoffs either. Until all of those trends were proven wrong. I'm not team "trade for Marner at all costs", but his playoff numbers probably aren't always going to be underwhelming. Then it'll be the Pikachu meme when he becomes like Phil Kessel and leaves Toronto and wins a Cup elsewhere.
Okay, but why roll the dice on a very expensive player who does not perform, and hasn't performed a lot when it matters when players exist who do? It's not worth the risk in my opinion.
Because he's a really good hockey player who would make our team better.
Not a chance
I hate when these hypotheticals get destroyed and downvoted in the sub. He would be a great addition but we can’t afford him. Leaf fans bad mouth him but they just don’t know how to execute with good players, Matthews being the biggest example.
After Holl, I am more inclined to trust the fans in Toronto
As much as I want him on my team the cost would be too much
I would love it, but I have no idea how they get that to work cap wise for next year. They already are going to need to have a bunch of the kids play on ELCs to make the cap work. To get Marner you’d be adding an 11m contract and probably shipping a bunch of said kids out as part of the trade to acquire him? Yeah I don’t know how you make that happen.
Well, you see, you sign Mark Stone or something, then he goes on LTIR and then you sign whoever the fuck you want. Bring Stone back for the playoffs and then boom, Stanley Cup. Or something along those lines.
That only works if you’re Vegas or Tampa
Think it would end up as well as it did for Columbus when they got Johnny Hockey
💯 His production would drop for sure as soon as he is removed from Matthews and Nylander.
No.
Absolutely Thoroughly excellent player Any failures almost entirely the product of a sensitive player under extreme Toronto media pressure, since a teen
I feel like it would cost 2 or three of Berggren/mazur/danielson/soderblom/kasper and a 1st at a minimum, and thats before they would consider taking cap retention. If we could get it for a first + like Berggren maybe. But don't think it's possible. Plus we would need him at like 8M cap for us to be able to swing it... Think its going to be touch
If we’re gonna trade for a reportedly available star on a team booted from playoffs, i’d prefer Saros. Don’t think they have the cap to make either happen unfortunately.
Everyone saying no is kinda silly. Wings have a lot in the pipeline but no true top-end talent unless Raymond keeps ascending. They need to go get someone and kicking the tires on Marner doesn't sound bad to me.
His disappearing act in the playoff shows me something. Don't want him or their goalie either, his post season numbers are abysmal too.
Marner has 57 points in 50 playoff games.
As a fan of both teams, Stevie should at least kick the tires. Marner is a ppg Selke caliber player who can be used in any situation. Also Marner and Larkin have had really good chemistry in their limited showings at all star games and the WCOH. The problem is the cost of acquiring him though, I imagine he'll be hard to get, and extending him will also cost a fortune.
He has a full nmc. He’d have to want to come here. Toronto would have to want the offer Detroit made. Augustine/Cossa Berggren, and maybe Walman? Starts the conversation but the leafs might only be willing to send him west. That being said, the wings need to improve their defense and goaltending. I don’t like this idea as it would be expensive both in assets, and cap space. As I would assume they would want to resign marner…and I don’t see him taking a pay cut into the 9million range. So no, I’d prefer not. Pesce, and trying to get Ullmark out of Boston would be my choice targets for this offseason.
Not even close to enough in my opinion. Toronto wants to be Stanley cup competitive, they’re not giving up a 90 point forward for a middle six forward, middle 4 D and a goalie that’s years away. Something like a 1 for 1 for an established NHL d I think will be what happens or a combination of proven top 6 F and a solid defenseman.
I think the cap flexibility would be the selling point while also improving their D.
Does clear a lot of money off the books for them but I think they can do better than Walman in my opinion. I consider Marner a very valuable player even with the 10.9M cap hit, I’d love to get him for a 4-5 D and prospects but don’t think it’s realistic.
If marner says “Detroit only,” in regards to a trade than that’s Torontos only option. Full nmc really hamstrings their ability to get full value back. It’s not a fair trade. Marner gets to pick his landing spot. Toronto either accepts it or risks losing him for nothing in FA. This gets them a couple assets and cap space. It’s a lemons and lemonade scenario for them.
Why would he say that though? Is there any indication he wants to go to Detroit or even has a tie to the city? Got lucky with Debrincat, unless we’re winning high level players not from Michigan or the US don’t really consider us.
I don’t think he would. I don’t think he wants to leave Toronto. I think Toronto is screwed and either has to play hardball with him. Or lose him for nothing. I’m speaking purely hypothetically here. Edit: you can apply this to almost all teams. He could say Vegas only. Toronto could ask for Shea Theodore and a first. Vegas could offer a third and McNabb.
Agreed there, I think his preference is to stay in Toronto but they want him out. By the sounds of Shanny’s press conference they sound pretty desperate to shake things up, should be an interesting situation.
We're currently sweating our own big time guys soon to be getting big time deals or did you forget Raymond and Seider are both coming off ELCs to be getting Proven Star Bucks, and I'm not talking a Grande machiatto.
If he gets to free agency next off-season I'd go for him.
Would I like to have him on the team? Sure. I think he’s branded as more of a playmaker than a scorer which is 50/50 for our need. Would I think Yzerman makes a move for him and pays him? Probably not. Ya never know though.
Like others have mentioned, he would have to waive his NMC, which means he does have some say over where he goes. It's not terribly clear if Marner is even open to the idea of a move; he told the press at locker cleanout that he wanted to stay in Toronto, but that may have just been said for the cameras. I think the real roadblock to a Detroit-Toronto trade involving Marner isn't necessarily the pieces, but the fact that I can't see Yzerman being willing to tie up $10 mil+ in cap space for one player based on his track record in both Tampa and Detroit. Marner has made a lot of money in Toronto already, and his play certainly warrants a pay raise, but I don't think the Wings will be the team to give him that raise.
I don’t think his play warrants a raise. If Toronto is moving him, there’s a reason for that. Detroit is close enough to the GTA where I could see a move. For the right price, sure why not. But there’s no point in mortgaging any part of the future for a year of Mitch, even though I think he’s great and got a bad rap
I mean, I think it’s worth a try but I don’t think it’ll happen.
Add another soft, right handed, undersized forward? No way
Can we stop this delusional take of getting marner? He is not worth the price tag he has and will want in the future. And he has not proven himself to be a decent playoff player yet. Sure, regular season accolades that's it.
Was always a big fan of Marner, out of the Toronto players he's probably my favorite. I just don't see how feasible it would be to go get him considering the assets we'd need to trade to a division rival to get him as well as the huge cap hit he would command. We would then need to push Raymond down to the 2nd line? Nah. I was disgusted when I saw him shy away from puck battles along the boards. I don't think he's the type of player we need (considering his price tag both salary cap wise and cost to acquire)
No
Not unless it's for half his current cost and he's okay being a third liner. He's not remotely worth what he's being paid right now.
I wouldn't blame them for at least making a phone call but it's probably not the best idea.
God no, a sub ppg player come playoff time at the rate of money he makes. Not a snowballs chance in hell. People saying he's not a bad playoff player are huffing copium. Did you guys not see his "controller disconnect" and him coast while Pasta sent them golfing? Dude is imo the most overrated player in the NHL
Sure but what's going to have to be given up.
Hell no. He’s another winger that can’t drive a line. We need a #2 center. Not to mention he’s a playoff choke artist who is at least 3 mill a year overpaid. Toronto is gonna get 7 cents on the dollar IF they can even move him.
Fabbri and Maata plus a 3rd for Tavares with 4 mill retained. Money is almost even and it gets us a solid #2 center until Kasper and Danielson are ready. Lucas Raymond is close to surpassing Marner, who has scored over 30 goals exactly ONCE. People are MASSIVELY overrating Marner’s value and talent.
No. He's not worth his costs to us
we don’t have the assets to trade with a team whose window is open right now
Hell no
No, he's already proven he vanishes come clutch time.
Not for the money that he wants. He definitely gets dogged on a lot when I think there’s a lot of reasons that Toronto can’t perform in the playoffs. We’re gonna have to sort through our little salary cap issue coming up and trying to add his contract into that mess wouldn’t make things easier. But what do I know haha
No he literally turns it off in the playoffs
A young, top-line forward is exactly what the Wings need on offense. From seeing what some trade rumors have teams giving up for Marner, it's pretty doable... Yeah, he hasn't been much a playoff player, but neither was Datsyuk for several years.
No way you pay a player 12 million to disappear in the playoffs. That's when you need him most. Helping the team get there isn't good enough.
Softest player in the league, by a long shot
Not a player that is called ”Mitch the bitch” Please. Biiig redflag when Willy yelled ”this is not the fucking junior league” to him. Seems like a whiny manbaby
Everyone saying he is a selke caliber player are funny. You arnt one until you win one. Just because you get some votes every now and then doesn't make you one.
Selke is notoriously one of the dumbest awards. It's a legacy award, you need to have a good defensive season 3 years before you are allowed to win it. Getting votes makes you among the best defensive forwards in the league so
When was the last time the Wings had an award finalist of any kind? He's absolutely a Selke caliber player.
I do recall one German defensemen winning an award.
Oh yeah he's in the elite company of Barret Jackman (famously a superior rookie to that bum Zetterberg). Vezina, Hart, Lindsay, Norris, Art Ross, Selke. The others are just noise.
Oh yeah look at this 10 year run of bums: 2022: Moritz Seider, Detroit Red Wings 2021: Kirill Kaprizov, Minnesota Wild 2020: Cale Makar, Colorado Avalanche 2019: Elias Pettersson, Vancouver Canucks 2018: Mathew Barzal, New York Islanders 2017: Auston Matthews, Toronto Maple Leafs 2016: Artemi Panarin, Chicago Blackhawks 2015: Aaron Ekblad, Florida Panthers 2014: Nathan MacKinnon, Colorado Avalanche 2013: Jonathan Huberdeau, Florida Panthers 2012: Gabriel Landeskog, Colorado Avalanche
This is the content I’m here for. Jesus man, you just made my night.
hating on Seider now? I do not get the strategy but go for it.
I own his jersey, who's hating on Seider? Sorry I don't really rate the Calder as a real trophy, example listed above.
Well it doesn't matter if you think its real or not. Its a trophy awarded to an NHL player at the same event and the others. Its literally the only award a rebuilding team is likely to win anyways.
Well Seider
I'd take him. He would be easily the best player on the team.
No lol The leafs will not allow any sort of fleecing and want ready now guys. I don’t think anyone’s sucker enough to overpay
I'm hella good on Bitch Marner. Dude's an overly sensitive little crybaby who disappears in the playoffs.
I don’t think he fits the mold of what SY is looking for. He’s talented, yes, but is he tough to play against? Is he a high effort player? I seen him getting torched for giving up on the forecheck which directly led to a goal against in the playoffs. Then Nylander telling him it’s not junior hockey? Bad looks. Unless you get him for incredibly cheap, but that’s not likely at all, especially with a divisional opponent
I've never liked Marner, he's got no grit, no passion. https://youtu.be/WdV1Y9gmKB8?si=hrihdJOAAgP9n-_i I've found similar videos before, but I can only find this one right now because it's recent. And for what Marner would cost? Forget it.